Boils down to turnovers for me but I could switch 1 and 2.
1. JjJ. Good all around game. Cut down on TOs from last game.
2. Haanie. Too many TOs but otherwise good momentum going into the Beast.
4. Fishy. Good to see him make his shots.
5. Sam. Love his rebounding.
Let's get ready for the Hoyas. Go Warriors!
1. Duane
2. JJJ
3. HC
4. Luke
edit: I changed mine. Reward the grit to come back in after the ankle tweak and changing the game with defensive intensity.
JJJ
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 21, 2016, 09:43:11 PM
Boils down to turnovers for me but I could switch 1 and 2.
1. JjJ. Good all around game. Cut down on TOs from last game.
2. Haanie. Too many TOs but otherwise good momentum going into the Beast.
4. Fishy. Good to see him make his shots.
5. Sam. Love his rebounding.
Let's get ready for the Hoyas. Go Warriors!
Couldn't disagree more. You guys can hate me, but points shouldn't always determine SOTG.
DUANE came off of the bench, like we have been asking him to since he was a starter and completely changed the flow of the first half. Hitting shots, awesome assists and hard active D.
I was super surprised by him and his effort today.
Give Marotta a honorable mention.
Duane - his best game of the year.
If only we could get him to quit shooting threes.
1. Duane. We needed a guy to finally lead by defense. He did it.
2. Cheatham
Honorable Mention: JJJ (one of the sweetest passes I've seen) and Sam.
Early though there was not energy, no D...SwaggyDu changed that so he gets the nod. 4 steals 0 TOs.
1. JJJ - Best stat line and played really smart tonight
2. Swaggy Du - Spark off the bench and played really good D. 4 steals.
3. Cheatham - Best stat line minus the turnovers. Think all four of them were in the first half of the first half
4. Obligatory walk on scored a point nomination
Marotta big 3!
Cam 2 NBA!
Duane
Wanted to be the one to put in the Cam plug, but got distracted.
haven't seen the box score, just going with who I thought changed the flow, made a difference.
Duane.
I'm not going to look at a stat line. Duane came to play. He was the spark (along with Matty) that took a tie game up to a double digit lead at half. Really want him to be that super 6th man type guy this year. Great game Du.
1) Duane. Good defense, came back from the tweak, would've been more impressive line if they did hockey assists.
2) Jajuan. Solid all-around night, rebounded nicely from his last game.
3) Sam. Quietly becoming a great rebounder.
HM) Cam. Because duh.
Duane
Really impressive tonight, even after twisting an ankle.
Duane, he was the momentum pivot point in the game. A pat on the back to Matt too.
Duane - bringing what this team needs
1) JJ
2) Heldt
3) Duane
4) Cam
No problem with Duane for all the reasons stated.
Still, I thought JJJ just really played some nice basketball. Looked to set up others, found his own shot, some nice defensive plays.
He's my choice, but Duane, Haani, Heldt, Fish, Hauser, Rowsey ... all played quite well for a bunch of de-motivated go-through-the-motions guys.
Oh, and Markus was solid, too. He really played like a PG. Only took one shot because he didn't need to shoot. Kept the offense flowing nicely when he was in the game.
JaJuan. MU ran the weave/high screen/curl play (what is that thing called?) to perfection, and SIUEIEIO had no answer for JJJ. Great all-around game.
KPom says JjJ but Duane's four steals with a spurt on defense earns my vote. We have been waiting foe some team defense all year and finally got some. It should be recognized.
1. Duane
2. Matt
3. Hannif
We were tied or losing as our starters stood around in a fog. Matt n duane came in and the game changed. We never looked back. Like hannis aggressive play from start to finish, 4 tos kept him in third.
4. Jjj needs to lead, not follow to be ranked higher.
5. Sam Very solid three looks good even when not falling
6. Rowsey Same, little loose with the ball.
7. Fish, 4 boards, poor defense, 1 post move
Seems like most of the team is getting nominated tonight.
Let's just agree to give it to Cam.
Haven't looked at the box yet, but I'd say Haanif, then Duane.
If JJJ gets it, he'll be the 7th different player so far this season in 9 wins. Backs up what Wojo said at the open practice about every player on the team being the best at one point or another. Marquette's success will come as a team, not because of a single standout player.
Quote from: MU82 on December 21, 2016, 11:03:59 PMOh, and Markus was solid, too. He really played like a PG. Only took one shot because he didn't need to shoot. Kept the offense flowing nicely when he was in the game.
Agreed. He looked so active distributing and on D, I never noticed it took him so long to get on the scoreboard.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 21, 2016, 11:30:18 PM
If JJJ gets it, he'll be the 7th different player so far this season in 9 wins. Backs up what Wojo said at the open practice about every player on the team being the best at one point or another. Marquette's success will come as a team, not because of a single standout player.
Agreed. I can't recall us having a more balanced team.
1. Duane.
2. Sam.
3. Heldt.
Duane
1. Duane
2. Haany
3. JJJ
4. Sam
I don't think there's anyway that JJJ wasn't one of the three best players on the court last night (per KenPom he was the best). But a lot of posters aren't including them in their top 3, 4, or 5.
I think I'm going to call it the MUFINY effect....
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 22, 2016, 08:12:37 AM
I don't think there's anyway that JJJ wasn't one of the three best players on the court last night (per KenPom he was the best). But a lot of posters aren't including them in their top 3, 4, or 5.
I think I'm going to call it the MUFINY effect....
I believe everyone that lists 4 or 5 has JJJ in it.
I would argue there wasn't a clear top player, really 6-7 players that all played well and did their job. Duane stepped up and was vocal when everyone was standing around doing nothing again and we were losing to an inferior opponent.
Last I checked KenPom doesn't have a stat for defensive leadership/game changing attitude.
I'm also not a big proponent for using stats absolutely. JJJ jacked up an ill-advised 3 early in the shot clock. It was a bad shot, more often than not he misses that and it hurts the team. He made it, so suddenly stats wise it looks great; game wise terrible. In contrast, a necessary 3 late in the shot clock that may be forced, misses; have to take the shot, but stats wise hurts your eFG% and all the other Kenpom stats. Stats are helpful, but need to be taken in context.
JJJ played well, but didn't clearly stand out in performance compared to Duane (all around performance and leadership), Cheatham (80% from the field 19 pts; but bad TOs). The only place someone clearly stood out was on defense and leadership (Duane).
Now there is also the aspect that JJJ is supposed to be the leader; so many including me, have higher expectations for him. I probably nudged him below Cheatham, because of this.
MUBB says Heldt.
Quote from: forgetful on December 22, 2016, 08:53:30 AM
I believe everyone that lists 4 or 5 has JJJ in it.
I would argue there wasn't a clear top player, really 6-7 players that all played well and did their job. Duane stepped up and was vocal when everyone was standing around doing nothing again and we were losing to an inferior opponent.
Last I checked KenPom doesn't have a stat for defensive leadership/game changing attitude.
I'm also not a big proponent for using stats absolutely. JJJ jacked up an ill-advised 3 early in the shot clock. It was a bad shot, more often than not he misses that and it hurts the team. He made it, so suddenly stats wise it looks great; game wise terrible. In contrast, a necessary 3 late in the shot clock that may be forced, misses; have to take the shot, but stats wise hurts your eFG% and all the other Kenpom stats. Stats are helpful, but need to be taken in context.
JJJ played well, but didn't clearly stand out in performance compared to Duane (all around performance and leadership), Cheatham (80% from the field 19 pts; but bad TOs). The only place someone clearly stood out was on defense and leadership (Duane).
Now there is also the aspect that JJJ is supposed to be the leader; so many including me, have higher expectations for him. I probably nudged him below Cheatham, because of this.
This is true, not sure why I thought otherwise.
Mostly my post was meant to be funny, poking a little fun at MUFINY. But I do think JJJ was the most deserving last night. The one three was bad but I'm not worried as much about it when 1. it went in, 2. we had a more than comfortable lead at the time. Thought his passing was excellent and played solid defense.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 22, 2016, 09:04:23 AM
This is true, not sure why I thought otherwise.
Mostly my post was meant to be funny, poking a little fun at MUFINY. But I do think JJJ was the most deserving last night. The one three was bad but I'm not worried as much about it when 1. it went in, 2. we had a more than comfortable lead at the time. Thought his passing was excellent and played solid defense.
Honestly, MUFINY is also contributing to JJJ's lackluster performance in the SOTG, he's really holding JJJ back; he's demotivating votes for JJJ.
HC, with a nod to DW and LF.
really liked Luke's movement- didn't notice many instances where he was caught flatfooted.
Heldt is still rather stiff- some good moments, but fouls out in 14 minutes or whatever? sure that's ok I suppose for a backup, but if he's the middle man next year......
doesn't seem to have the instincts yet- slow to react... one play he didn't move his arms quickly enough to secure a defensive rebound then fouled the player who did- another play on O his reactions to a potential offensive rebound were behind the ball's movement, almost like he was flailing at it.
love his intensity at times, but has a load of work to do for next season.
loved JJ's assists- not so much the early TOs.
Quote from: TVDirector on December 22, 2016, 09:18:36 AM
loved JJ's assists- not so much the early TOs.
He only had one on the game....
Quote from: forgetful on December 22, 2016, 09:12:28 AM
Honestly, MUFINY is also contributing to JJJ's lackluster performance in the SOTG, he's really holding JJJ back; he's demotivating votes for JJJ.
YES!
Quote from: wadesworld on December 22, 2016, 08:59:25 AM
MUBB says Heldt.
When Heldt stops being a human foul machine, he will qualify for consideration as a stud.
Until then... NO
Great team effort but Duane made a difference at the right time.
Duane D +1
Duane.
But would be fine with JJJ or Hanni.
Quote from: forgetful on December 22, 2016, 08:53:30 AM
I believe everyone that lists 4 or 5 has JJJ in it.
I would argue there wasn't a clear top player, really 6-7 players that all played well and did their job. Duane stepped up and was vocal when everyone was standing around doing nothing again and we were losing to an inferior opponent.
Last I checked KenPom doesn't have a stat for defensive leadership/game changing attitude.
I'm also not a big proponent for using stats absolutely. JJJ jacked up an ill-advised 3 early in the shot clock. It was a bad shot, more often than not he misses that and it hurts the team. He made it, so suddenly stats wise it looks great; game wise terrible. In contrast, a necessary 3 late in the shot clock that may be forced, misses; have to take the shot, but stats wise hurts your eFG% and all the other Kenpom stats. Stats are helpful, but need to be taken in context.
JJJ played well, but didn't clearly stand out in performance compared to Duane (all around performance and leadership), Cheatham (80% from the field 19 pts; but bad TOs). The only place someone clearly stood out was on defense and leadership (Duane).
Now there is also the aspect that JJJ is supposed to be the leader; so many including me, have higher expectations for him. I probably nudged him below Cheatham, because of this.
Agree wholeheartedly with the sentence I bolded. Everybody, including us here, falls back on stats too often. I still like JJJ for stud but again, I fully support a Duane choice. For the record, IIRC Duane also jacked up an early 3 that had me saying, "Oh no" ... until it went in.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 22, 2016, 09:40:21 AM
When Heldt stops being a human foul machine, he will qualify for consideration as a stud.
Until then... NO
Matt did have a strong game. Great to see his energy, he and the team were really fired up after his early and-one. Not SOTG level, but he made a difference.
Quote from: forgetful on December 22, 2016, 09:12:28 AM
Honestly, MUFINY is also contributing to JJJ's lackluster performance in the SOTG, he's really holding JJJ back; he's demotivating votes for JJJ.
Yes, MUFINY is a demotivator!
Quote from: forgetful on December 22, 2016, 08:53:30 AMNow there is also the aspect that JJJ is supposed to be the leader; so many including me, have higher expectations for him.
Sometimes I wonder what exactly fans expect of JJJ.
He's played in every game this season. First on the team in steals. Second in minutes played, points scored, defensive rebounds, assists and blocked shots.
He's improved in virtually every statistical category compared to a year ago: MPG, USG%, FG%, eFG%, FT%, PPG, RPG, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, APG, AST%, STL%, BLK%, PER, ORtg and DRtg. Can anyone fault his shot selection if he's hitting 58.6% inside the arc and 34.3% from three, while leading the team in usage? Turnovers are higher than I'd like, but not outrageous.
I know we haven't hit the conference schedule yet. But I'm quite happy with JaJuan's contribution to date. I think he's going to help us win a lot of games.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 22, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
Sometimes I wonder what exactly fans expect of JJJ.
He's played in every game this season. First on the team in steals. Second in minutes played, points scored, defensive rebounds, assists and blocked shots.
He's improved in virtually every statistical category compared to a year ago: MPG, USG%, FG%, eFG%, FT%, PPG, RPG, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, APG, AST%, STL%, BLK%, PER, ORtg and DRtg. Can anyone fault his shot selection if he's hitting 58.6% inside the arc and 34.3% from three, while leading the team in usage? Turnovers are higher than I'd like, but not outrageous.
I know we haven't hit the conference schedule yet. But I'm quite happy with JaJuan's contribution to date. I think he's going to help us win a lot of games.
To play like the highest ranked recruit MU had gotten in years (Till Ellenson came around)
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 22, 2016, 01:00:36 PM
To play like the highest ranked recruit MU had gotten in years (Till Ellenson came around)
What I'm not clear on is where exactly JJJ falls short.
Right now he's easily one of our best players — I'd say it's a toss-up between him and Luke, a former Mr. Basketball for the state of Wisconsin. (Not coincidentally, both seniors.) And JaJuan may still be improving.
Then again, what am I thinking? There are posters here who looked at Henry's high school accolades and felt anything less than 25 ppg, 15 rpg and a Final Four was underachieving.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 22, 2016, 01:52:03 PM
What I'm not clear on is where exactly JJJ falls short.
Right now he's easily one of our best players — I'd say it's a toss-up between him and Luke, a former Mr. Basketball for the state of Wisconsin. (Not coincidentally, both seniors.) And JaJuan may still be improving.
Then again, what am I thinking? There are posters here who looked at Henry's high school accolades and felt anything less than 25 ppg, 15 rpg and a Final Four was underachieving.
I was hoping he could hit 15ppg.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 22, 2016, 01:57:13 PM
I was hoping he could hit 15ppg.
Seems kind of arbitrary. There's only one basketball. And we have more offensive options than a year ago. Even with the addition of Sam, Katin, Markus and Andrew on the perimeter, JaJuan's usage, scoring and efficiency are all up.
I'm not sure Henry would average 15 ppg on this team.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 22, 2016, 01:52:03 PM
What I'm not clear on is where exactly JJJ falls short.
Right now he's easily one of our best players — I'd say it's a toss-up between him and Luke, a former Mr. Basketball for the state of Wisconsin. (Not coincidentally, both seniors.) And JaJuan may still be improving.
This probably isn't fair to JJJ but here is where he falls short in my mind. For as high as he was ranked coming in and now with 4 years in the program, you expect him to be the leader willing this team to victory -- for recent examples think of senior years for Wes/Jerel, Lazar, Jimmy, Jae or Junior year Vander.
So he is good player on an ok team - I just hoped he would mature into that go-to guy and leader when in fact he is more of a role player. He may have a team leading performance this year - but unless we improve in 2H v. 1H it will be on a less than memorable team.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 22, 2016, 02:28:28 PM
This probably isn't fair to JJJ but here is where he falls short in my mind. For as high as he was ranked coming in and now with 4 years in the program, you expect him to be the leader willing this team to victory -- for recent examples think of senior years for Wes/Jerel, Lazar, Jimmy, Jae or Junior year Vander.
So he is good player on an ok team - I just hoped he would mature into that go-to guy and leader when in fact he is more of a role player. He may have a team leading performance this year - but unless we improve in 2H v. 1H it will be on a less than memorable team.
Don't think JJ has the personality to be a leader. Being a good player does not equal being a leader.
nm
Gotcha. Nobody said expectations have to be realistic or fair.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 22, 2016, 02:02:27 PMI'm not sure Henry would average 15 ppg on this team.
I disagree with that. The only person that could have kept Henry from hitting 15 ppg on this team is Wojo. More likely he'd be pouring in 20/12 right now. Hopefully with improved efficiency.
JJJ hasn't fallen short in my eyes.
I expected him to be a good player and a major contributor to a winning team.
He is a good player and a major contributor to a winning team.
On top of that, he has improved so markedly as a shooter, both from distance and in his pull-up game. A testament to his hard work and the hard work of the coaching staff.
Way to go, Jajuan!
Quote from: MU82 on December 22, 2016, 07:38:53 PM
JJJ hasn't fallen short in my eyes.
I expected him to be a good player and a major contributor to a winning team.
He is a good player and a major contributor to a winning team.
On top of that, he has improved so markedly as a shooter, both from distance and in his pull-up game. A testament to his hard work and the hard work of the coaching staff.
Way to go, Jajuan!
Wojo said he could be a top Big East player if he keeps his game consistent on both ends...thus he is coaching him hard.
His hideous shot has improved. He is a pisser on D. His propensity for driving into the pines and the inevitable resultant turnover drives me nuts. I love him, but in all honesty feel that he has been a bit of a disappointment. When he's hot, he's hot, when he's not, he's not.
Quote from: MU82 on December 22, 2016, 07:38:53 PM
JJJ hasn't fallen short in my eyes.
I expected him to be a good player and a major contributor to a winning team.
He is a good player and a major contributor to a winning team.
On top of that, he has improved so markedly as a shooter, both from distance and in his pull-up game. A testament to his hard work and the hard work of the coaching staff.
Way to go, Jajuan!
TO'sTO's TO's thati is his problem.
SOTG = the team
This is the first game in years where everyone on the team played their role as close to perfectly as possible. Can't fault anyone.
Even Matty's 5 fouls were part of an all-out high energy performance that is needed from a backup big.
I know it was a cupcake, but this kind of effort and balance and well played roles will win more than it's share of BEAST games.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 22, 2016, 01:52:03 PM
What I'm not clear on is where exactly JJJ falls short.
Basketball IQ. For all his stat sheet stuffing numbers, he still consistently makes bone headed play after bone headed play. I think why people get more frustrated with JJJ than others is because his mistakes are so easily fixed. Luke is not magically going to get stronger overnight. But all JJJ has to do is not decide to launch a 35 foot three in the first five seconds of the shot clock.
That, and I honestly think that certain posters have caused others to subconsciously dislike JJJ because of their unrelenting posts about him.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 22, 2016, 09:37:13 PM
Basketball IQ. For all his stat sheet stuffing numbers, he still consistently makes bone headed play after bone headed play. I think why people get more frustrated with JJJ than others is because his mistakes are so easily fixed. Luke is not magically going to get stronger overnight. But all JJJ has to do is not decide to launch a 35 foot three in the first five seconds of the shot clock.
OK, but really, how often does he launch 35-footers in the first 5 seconds of the shot clock? Answer: Never. Maybe a couple of 25-footers all season in that situation.
His main problem is he gets into his drive-and-spin mode without really having an exit plan if he is picked up. That does go to basketball IQ, as you say.
Still, he is the best passer on the team, and I think by a pretty good margin. He is the most likely to break down a defender and create for teammates. He is a 34% shooter from 3 with a recent history (last season) of being over 40%. If he drives and gets fouled, he is an outstanding FT shooter. He sometimes goes for steals when he shouldn't, but when he gets steals they not only often get us points but also give us momentum. He averages 5 rebs/game, second on the team. For all the talk of his TOs, he averages only 2/game; that's at least one too many but hardly catastrophe level.
I think among Scoopers, JJJ is a victim of outsized expectations and, yes, MUFINY's relentlessness.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 22, 2016, 09:37:13 PM
Basketball IQ. For all his stat sheet stuffing numbers, he still consistently makes bone headed play after bone headed play. I think why people get more frustrated with JJJ than others is because his mistakes are so easily fixed. Luke is not magically going to get stronger overnight. But all JJJ has to do is not decide to launch a 35 foot three in the first five seconds of the shot clock.
That, and I honestly think that certain posters have caused others to subconsciously dislike JJJ because of their unrelenting posts about him.
Yep, I agree. If he would use more intelligence and discipline in those TO moments he will become someone that give added leadership strength to the younger guys, and we pick up 2-3 more win.
And you know, I think he does it!!
Quote from: MU82 on December 22, 2016, 11:08:09 PM
OK, but really, how often does he launch 35-footers in the first 5 seconds of the shot clock? Answer: Never. Maybe a couple of 25-footers all season in that situation.
He did it at least once.
I don't know why anyone would still be mad at JJ, didn't he transfer 3 years ago? (And 2 years ago, and last year midseason, and 1 year ago...)
He was pretty much out the door until Buzz left. That being said, I love JJJ and think he has come a looong way since his Freshman year. He may be the best example of constant year to year improvement in recent memory along with Vander.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 22, 2016, 09:37:13 PM
Basketball IQ. For all his stat sheet stuffing numbers, he still consistently makes bone headed play after bone headed play. I think why people get more frustrated with JJJ than others is because his mistakes are so easily fixed. Luke is not magically going to get stronger overnight. But all JJJ has to do is not decide to launch a 35 foot three in the first five seconds of the shot clock.
That, and I honestly think that certain posters have caused others to subconsciously dislike JJJ because of their unrelenting posts about him.
I loved the JJJ that showed up in the 2nd half of the season last year and seemed to have bought into what Wojo was preaching. He stopped lunging for steals and leaving his man wide open, was much better about picking his shots, and got back on defense. Too often this year he has reverted to prior bad habits and played 1-on-5 hero ball. Getting those steals against Georgia might have been a negative in terms of his thought process on defense.
If JJJ can go back to playing within himself he will be our best player.
Quote from: MU82 on December 22, 2016, 11:08:09 PM
His main problem is he gets into his drive-and-spin mode without really having an exit plan if he is picked up. That does go to basketball IQ, as you say.
I think the same could be said for Haanie but no one gets on him about it. Granted, he and JjJ are different in a lot of respects, but they are both trying to make something happen and are sometimes out of control. That's why Haanie had 5 TOs last game and JjJ had too many the game before.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 23, 2016, 07:44:49 AM
I think the same could be said for Haanie but no one gets on him about it. Granted, he and JjJ are different in a lot of respects, but they are both trying to make something happen and are sometimes out of control. That's why Haanie had 5 TOs last game and JjJ had too many the game before.
Whether these two, Luke or Katin, the same could be said: Once they go in, the ball never comes out. And the defenses know it which is why the Badgers so easily shut out Sam.
The kick out could be valuable for everone.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 23, 2016, 07:56:28 AM
Whether these two, Luke or Katin, the same could be said: Once they go in, the ball never comes out. And the defenses know it which is why the Badgers so easily shut out Sam.
The kick out could be valuable for everone.
I agree with this analysis.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 22, 2016, 11:49:31 PM
He did it at least once.
TAMU, you know I loves ya, but that wasn't a 35-footer.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 23, 2016, 07:56:28 AM
Whether these two, Luke or Katin, the same could be said: Once they go in, the ball never comes out. And the defenses know it which is why the Badgers so easily shut out Sam.
The kick out could be valuable for everone.
Luke is a very good passer, especially to the cutter. When he feels the double he's a very willing passer. When he doesn't, he looks to score. And when you shoot 70% from the field and have a 1 on 1 in the post, I would hope you're looking to score in that situation.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 23, 2016, 07:44:49 AM
I think the same could be said for Haanie but no one gets on him about it. Granted, he and JjJ are different in a lot of respects, but they are both trying to make something happen and are sometimes out of control. That's why Haanie had 5 TOs last game and JjJ had too many the game before.
This is a good point. And JJJ seems more willing and able to pass when he gets in this mode, too.
JJJ is probably the most complete offensive player on the team. The problem and criticisms of JjJ don't spring from when he is driving dishing and creating. The problems/criticisms come when, despite a double double, his turnovers and lack of consistent effort, particularly on the defensive end, are so glaringly obvious that they overshadow a filled stat sheet. I don't think anyone here wants JjJ to not succeed. And everyone appreciates how good he is when he gets it going.
What frustrates me, and I think many trend in this direction, is when he goes half speed on defense, when it appears his only effort is for the steal and when he misses his man is getting easy baskets. When, after several good possessions, he suddenly shoots a one-pass three from well behind the arc, completely outside of the offense. Even more frustrating is when the previous two things happen on back to back possessions in a 30 second span. It may not be fair, but it taints the good 5-10 minutes of solid play he had just done. And because he is a senior who has had the same mental lapses since he was a freshman, when the team needs him to be a leader, it just increases the frustration.
Those who love JjJ point to the 10-12 really solid plays he generally makes every game. Those frustrated by him point to the 3-4 plays a game that are just maddening. For some the good outweighs the bad. For others the bad outweighs the bad. I admit I am in the frustrated camp. When he is playing well, he is a joy to watch. And I start to think about how good the team would me if he just brought THAT every possession for 30 minutes a game. But then he does something that hurts the team and is not what a senior who wants to lead should do. And I start counting the games until he graduates.
Skilled. Stayed 4 years. I appreciate what he can bring. I just wished/hoped that he could be relied on to bring the good every single possession.
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2016, 09:27:34 AM
JJJ is probably the most complete offensive player on the team. The problem and criticisms of JjJ don't spring from when he is driving dishing and creating. The problems/criticisms come when, despite a double double, his turnovers and lack of consistent effort, particularly on the defensive end, are so glaringly obvious that they overshadow a filled stat sheet. I don't think anyone here wants JjJ to not succeed. And everyone appreciates how good he is when he gets it going.
What frustrates me, and I think many trend in this direction, is when he goes half speed on defense, when it appears his only effort is for the steal and when he misses his man is getting easy baskets. When, after several good possessions, he suddenly shoots a one-pass three from well behind the arc, completely outside of the offense. Even more frustrating is when the previous two things happen on back to back possessions in a 30 second span. It may not be fair, but it taints the good 5-10 minutes of solid play he had just done. And because he is a senior who has had the same mental lapses since he was a freshman, when the team needs him to be a leader, it just increases the frustration.
Those who love JjJ point to the 10-12 really solid plays he generally makes every game. Those frustrated by him point to the 3-4 plays a game that are just maddening. For some the good outweighs the bad. For others the bad outweighs the bad. I admit I am in the frustrated camp. When he is playing well, he is a joy to watch. And I start to think about how good the team would me if he just brought THAT every possession for 30 minutes a game. But then he does something that hurts the team and is not what a senior who wants to lead should do. And I start counting the games until he graduates.
Skilled. Stayed 4 years. I appreciate what he can bring. I just wished/hoped that he could be relied on to bring the good every single possession.
JJJ is the morst frustrating player in a long time, you never know what you get. The defensive part is the killer. He has tremendous ability, quickness and reaction to
get a steal. Best in years. But if he misses a shot he rarely runs back and thinks about playing D. Not sure he is tough enough mentally. You would think he would
want to play in the NBA, do not see it. Has not learned how to go left at all in 4 years, but no one drives the right side as good as he does. The teams that really
scout him, the better teams take that away from him, but he still trys. That is the frustrating part. GT is very quick, lets see what he brings to the table. Peak and Pryor are very good, he has to defend.
Let's pick one so that player can bask in their SOTG glory over Christmas.
Quote from: Badgerhater on December 23, 2016, 12:23:00 PM
Let's pick one so that player can bask in their SOTG glory over Christmas.
Whenever we wear gray uniforms on national TV on a Wednesday, it takes a long time to name the SOTG.
Quote from: MU82 on December 23, 2016, 12:38:03 PM
Whenever we wear gray uniforms on national TV on a Wednesday, it takes a long time to name the SOTG.
As long as a reason has been identified. Carry on.
Not paying my yearly fees until SOTTG is selected
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 22, 2016, 04:39:52 PM
I disagree with that. The only person that could have kept Henry from hitting 15 ppg on this team is Wojo. More likely he'd be pouring in 20/12 right now. Hopefully with improved efficiency.
He should have stayed at least two more years. Yes, he has a lot of raw talent, but, he could have gotten so much better.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 23, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
He should have stayed at least two more years. Yes, he has a lot of raw talent, but, he could have gotten so much better.
He should have done whatever would make him the happiest.
And I believe he did.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 23, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
He should have stayed at least two more years. Yes, he has a lot of raw talent, but, he could have gotten so much better.
No way I think he would've stuck beyond Wally graduating, and looking at the draft for next year, he likely would've fallen no matter what. He made a fine decision, and we're still a better team this year than last even without him.
Henry's decision to leave early is no different than the debate about the Stanford running back. He chose to look out for himself and his future.
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2016, 05:54:23 PM
Henry's decision to leave early is no different than the debate about the Stanford running back. He chose to look out for himself and his future.
Except that Henry waited until after the team's last game....
Alright, after a couple busy days I finally had a chance to look at this objectively.
For me it's between JJJ and Duane. DU played with intensity that made us all proud, and JJJ just kept doing his thing (putting up a solid stat line). Since JJJ has played second fiddle most of the year, this is his SOTG, and hopefully the first of many.
Cheers, and Happy Holidays to all :)
Nicely done, Rocky.
See ya after the GT game, when you will have 4-5 great options to choose from!
Well played Rock. Merry Christmas!
No problem on the choice. Merry Christmas all.
So after non-con play, we already have as many different SOTG winners as we did either of the past two seasons. The most we've had in a single season was 9, which happened twice in 2012-13 and 2013-14. I'm not counting 2010-11 because I'm pretty sure that Frozena earned that one about as much as Marotta would have for that three he hit Wednesday night.
Of course, with Cohen and Carter gone, the most we can realistically expect this year is now 9. The only two scholarship players not to get a SOTG so far this year are Matt Heldt and Katin Reinhardt. My guess is at least once, Reinhardt will go off and have a game where he's SOTG. Less confident about Heldt, though he may have a game where Luke is in foul trouble and he has to play 20 crucial minutes that, while not necessarily the best stat-wise, are important enough to earn him a nod.
Any other thoughts? Will we end up with all 9 eligible scholarship players getting a SOTG this year?
I almost started a thread asking the same question. I agree with your conclusion. I think KR goes off at least once for 20-25 in a win. The only way I can envision a scenario where Matt wins is either early foul trouble or injury to Luke. Matt manages to stay on the floor for a double/double.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 24, 2016, 09:52:31 AM
So after non-con play, we already have as many different SOTG winners as we did either of the past two seasons. The most we've had in a single season was 9, which happened twice in 2012-13 and 2013-14. I'm not counting 2010-11 because I'm pretty sure that Frozena earned that one about as much as Marotta would have for that three he hit Wednesday night.
Of course, with Cohen and Carter gone, the most we can realistically expect this year is now 9. The only two scholarship players not to get a SOTG so far this year are Matt Heldt and Katin Reinhardt. My guess is at least once, Reinhardt will go off and have a game where he's SOTG. Less confident about Heldt, though he may have a game where Luke is in foul trouble and he has to play 20 crucial minutes that, while not necessarily the best stat-wise, are important enough to earn him a nod.
Any other thoughts? Will we end up with all 9 eligible scholarship players getting a SOTG this year?
I agree that 8 at a minimum and 9 is possible. If we can win at least 10 BE games I also think we will get six players with two or more SOTG. That would be most we ever had even in years where we won more games (I seriously doubt we will win 25+ games this year unless we go on a big NIT run).
Correction: we had seven players who had two or more in 11-12 but we won 27 games that year.
I have noticed a correlation between SOTG and transferring.
So it is MUScoop's responsibility to award SOTGs to keep players happy? :)
Good thought. Include a cash reward.
Quote from: tower912 on December 24, 2016, 01:38:33 PM
Good thought. Include a cash reward.
Pretty sure that'd be a NCAA violation. Maybe we can defer the reward until graduation, provided they matriculate at Marquette?
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 24, 2016, 01:47:47 PM
Pretty sure that'd be a NCAA violation. Maybe we can defer the reward until graduation, provided they matriculate at Marquette?
Pretty sure I was joking. Thought about starting another thread to talk about it.
Quote from: tower912 on December 24, 2016, 02:25:06 PM
Pretty sure I was joking. Thought about starting another thread to talk about it.
Oh crap...what do I do with the cash collection I started taking up?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 24, 2016, 10:22:14 AM
I have noticed a correlation between SOTG and transferring.
So it is MUScoop's responsibility to award SOTGs to keep players happy? :)
Where's Sacar?