1. Markus, KR, you were missed. Hell, for that matter, Traci and Sandy were missed.
2. JjJ, Luke, and Duane were abysmal. But Wojo had no choice but to keep playing them.
3. I swear MU's upperclassmen think it is 'litership' and they don't do the metric system.
4. In stretches, Haanif looked damn good.
5. Rowsey tried to take over, but for him, taking over is jacking up really long 3's.
6. Turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover. Every time MU turned them over, StFU took it back.
7. This team loves the 3 and forgets to work for a good shot.
8. Teams are staying tight on Sam at the 3 pt line. Hit a couple late (thankfully) but going to have to develop the next move.
9. Wojo should have taken a couple of TO's during the course of the game rather than saving them for the end. His team needed a couple of extra minutes of rest.
10. My hat is tipped to Sam, Rowsey, and HC. They showed up and had to play a lot more than was comfortable. I am seriously torqued about how Luke, Duane, and JjJ played.
11. But nobody got hurt.
Freshman Sam Hauser: 39 mins, 11p on 78.6% eFG%, 7 reb (1 off), 1a, 1s, 0 turnovers for #mubb tonight.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
1. Markus, KR, you were missed. Hell, for that matter, Traci and Sandy were missed.
2. JjJ, Luke, and Duane were abysmal. But Wojo had no choice but to keep playing them.
3. I swear MU's upperclassmen think it is 'litership' and they don't do the metric system.
4. In stretches, Haanif looked damn good.
5. Rowsey tried to take over, but for him, taking over is jacking up really long 3's.
6. Turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover. Every time MU turned them over, StFU took it back.
7. This team loves the 3 and forgets to work for a good shot.
8. Teams are staying tight on Sam at the 3 pt line. Hit a couple late (thankfully) but going to have to develop the next move.
9. Wojo should have taken a couple of TO's during the course of the game rather than saving them for the end. His team needed a couple of extra minutes of rest.
10. My hat is tipped to Sam, Rowsey, and HC. They showed up and had to play a lot more than was comfortable. I am seriously torqued about how Luke, Duane, and JjJ played.
11. But nobody got hurt.
Yep! Our underclassman come through again.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 19, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
Freshman Sam Hauser: 39 mins, 11p on 78.6% eFG%, 7 reb (1 off), 1a, 1s, 0 turnovers for #mubb tonight.
Very first play of the game they gave it to him in the post. Got a great shot, just missed it...never did it again.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
5. Rowsey tried to take over, but for him, taking over is jacking up really long 3's.
There were a couple possessions where the shot clock hit ~10 seconds, and there couldn't have been a person at the BC or watching at home who had even a sliver of a doubt that Rowsey was gonna run it down to ~2 and chuck it up from 45 feet out.
*nod* to thread title.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
8. Teams are staying tight on Sam at the 3 pt line. Hit a couple late (thankfully) but going to have to develop the next move.
He had a really nice drive from near the line tonight. He is doing some expanding as he gains comfort and has more responsibility.
30 three attempts, made 13.
Fischer against an inferior team was 4 for 14, 5 rebounds and 3 turnovers.
Three years of a defensive efforts, doubling teaming ball, then team kicks out for open three is just not working.
50% on threes for St F, very bad........
Here's stat line of JJJ, interesting considering he looked horrible:
11 points (4 for 9), 11 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks, 5 TOs If not for turnovers.... didn't see that coming
The turnovers made it look sooooooooooooooooo bad.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 19, 2016, 07:59:48 PM
*nod* to thread title.
I didn't get it at first. Then I read Rocky's post and it dawned on me. Well done Tower.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2016, 08:03:48 PM
The turnovers made it look sooooooooooooooooo bad.
I know, right. When I saw stat line, I had to read it twice. Few more assists and thats a triple double.
Had put together some notes - always appreciate Tower's thoughts.
Not much to learn tonight. Saying that, here's what I learned (thought?):
1. Too much reliance on the 3. It was exciting when they went down early, not so much during the second-half drought. Nice when they came back at the end. The shooters will not be so open when BE play begins and there will be more droughts than we've seen.
2. Duane. I enjoyed seeing him on the floor, enjoyed seeing a 3 go down, enjoyed seeing a nice feed for an asst. But, man, falling down on a guy 40' from the basket? And the fouls, the fouls, the fouls.
3. Guard drives.
A. Haanif. Looked good, saved our bacon mid-second half when everyone else was asleep.
Again, don't get lulled - it won't be so easy in the league, especially with no right hand.
B. Jajuan. At least he doesn't have to be fooled by success vs. lower-caliber opponents. His
forays into the lane resulted in TO's even against this squad. He's a senior. I think it's too
late for him to learn. We'll see more of this the rest of the year.
4. I forget who the poster is who gets worked up about Wojo's huddle advice, but how about when Woj wanted to deny the 3 and make them drive? Totally ignored.
5. Rousey D. Nice that he made some 3's but I don't think he'll be an asset on D against bigger guards in the Beast.
6. TO's. Our specialty tonight was getting a TO and giving it right up. Funny how often it occurred.
7. After their 7-0 run, and it was down to 6 or 7, I wondered who would step up and be the A-dog.
The answer was: nobody (at least not very quickly). Finally, I guess you would have to say that it was Sam (again) with a couple of 3's.
8. Not too much tonight to make one optimistic about BE play - but, hey, missing two guys, or two, or three, coming off exams, visions of sugarplums dancing in their heads, whatever. My guess is they will have a couple of exciting (unexpected) wins, but piss away some games that should be W's.
Quote from: nyg on December 19, 2016, 08:07:48 PM
I know, right. When I saw stat line, I had to read it twice. Few more assists and thats a triple double.
Or a few more turnovers.
Good one, Tower.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400919162
Box.
All of the starters in double figures.
Quote from: nyg on December 19, 2016, 08:01:38 PM
30 three attempts, made 13.
Fischer against an inferior team was 4 for 14, 5 rebounds and 3 turnovers.
Three years of a defensive efforts, doubling teaming ball, then team kicks out for open three is just not working.
50% on threes for St F, very bad........
Here's stat line of JJJ, interesting considering he looked horrible:
11 points (4 for 9), 11 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks, 5 TOs If not for turnovers.... didn't see that coming
The statisticians were creative to come up with 4 blocks. The rest seems consistent with what I saw in the game. Very solid rebounding effort, many forced possessions (TO's)...matador defense, rarely did he even get into defensive position.
The blocks I remember 2, and even 1 of those is generous.
Our 3rd best defensive performance of the season according to KenPom. Against what will likely be the worst opponent we'll face.
Got the win while shorthanded. Next game.
Well I like those who think we will be 10-8 or even 11-7 in the BE. What courage. I watch a game like tonight and wonder how we dropped so far in a few seasons.
My thoughts on this Game? Laughable. Some talent on the floor wiped out by stupid turnovers and another nightmare on defending the three. It looks like some players are just lost out there on D. They are either standing alone or double teaming someone who does not need a double. Live by the three and die by the three. Good luck.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 19, 2016, 07:55:31 PM
Yep! Our underclassman come through again.
Only because Wojo hasn't had a chance to coach them yet
#4 Duke only wins by 10 vs Tennessee St. Our win doesn't look too terrible
Quote from: fjm on December 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
#4 Duke only wins by 10 vs Tennessee St. Our win doesn't look too terrible
Was just going to post the same thing. One game is not indicative of how the rest of the season will go. Exhibit A: North Dakota (or was it ND State) Exhibit B: UWGB
It was one bad game. We were short handed. Did enough to win. Let's move on.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on December 19, 2016, 09:15:41 PM
Was just going to post the same thing. One game is not indicative of how the rest of the season will go. Exhibit A: North Dakota (or was it ND State) Exhibit B: UWGB
It was one bad game. We were short handed. Did enough to win. Let's move on.
Lavin made a comment after the game that (paraphrasing) regardless of why a transfer happens, when it happens mid season it disrupts a teams chemistry and takes some time for the players to adjust to the new bench/rotation/locker room.
Add a couple of last minute injuries and the team is managing a lot of change. Let's move on.
The one positive I'll take from this game is an appreciation for how much we can score in a short period of time. We turned a 6 point lead into a 15 point lead in about 30 seconds. That kind of offensive firepower can get you back in a lot of games.
Three point defense was bad but interior defense was good. SFU was 13-40 inside the arc (32.5%). Of course the opponent makes that feat near irrelevant.
On back-to back possessions , Wilson left his man who then drained a '3' and then fouled a guy shooting a '3'.
This team is really brutal on defense. Opposing teams get wide open 3s at will.
There are no "junkyard dogs on this team at all. I'm still waiting to see someone, anyone dive on the floor after the ball. Not a single person on this team is willing to mix it up. Maybe (hope, hope) this will be Reinhart's role when he comes back.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 19, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
Freshman Sam Hauser: 39 mins, 11p on 78.6% eFG%, 7 reb (1 off), 1a, 1s, 0 turnovers for #mubb tonight.
He's going to be special.
Quote from: brandx on December 19, 2016, 10:09:08 PM
On back-to back possessions , Wilson left his man who then drained a '3' and then fouled a guy shooting a '3'.
This team is really brutal on defense. Opposing teams get wide open 3s at will.
There are no "junkyard dogs on this team at all. I'm still waiting to see someone, anyone dive on the floor after the ball. Not a single person on this team is willing to mix it up. Maybe (hope, hope) this will be Reinhart's role when he comes back.
I saw Rowsey almost get into a scuffle while diving for a loose ball with Heldt against Georgia.
Quote from: fjm on December 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
#4 Duke only wins by 10 vs Tennessee St. Our win doesn't look too terrible
There is a Reason why ALL teams play Cupcakes.
Kept waiting for a play to free Sam up. Looked like playground ball a few times tonight with every man for himself esp. when Rousey started chucking long range
Quote from: elephantraker on December 19, 2016, 10:30:56 PM
Kept waiting for a play to free Sam up. Looked like playground ball a few times tonight with every man for himself esp. when Rousey started chucking long range
He was 7-14 and 6-13 on 3s. I'll take my chances with him over JJJ sprinting into the lane with his head down into 5 defenders.
Loved the underclassmen tonight. Not so much with the juniors and seniors.
Maybe our problem is that we're TOO experienced. ;)
- Great shooting. Rowsey was special tonight on O
- MU lost its way on offense. Cheats took over and just pile drove to the hoop
- Long time between games with finals and it showed
- Wojo's epileptic fit
- Pretty sure that turning up the music to cover the low attendance is not good for concussion protocol
- Is Sam the only one willing to fight for loose balls? Upperclassmen: It is called effort.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on December 19, 2016, 10:28:58 PM
There is a Reason why ALL teams play Cupcakes.
But TSU is 18th in the mid-major top 25.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
(Didn't know it existed, until I looked up something on Loyola)
(No, Liberty is not on the list)
Quote from: wadesworld on December 19, 2016, 10:25:17 PM
I saw Rowsey almost get into a scuffle while diving for a loose ball with Heldt against Georgia.
Well, I guess once is better than never.
Quote from: fjm on December 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
#4 Duke only wins by 10 vs Tennessee St. Our win doesn't look too terrible
You're gonna try logic and reasonable statements with some of this crowd? Ha!
Next thing you're going to mention is that Notre Dame struggled to beat Colgate tonight. Or No. 21 Florida State beating Samford by 8.
More facts. And many Scoopers don't need no stinkin' facts. Much easier to think our team is the only inept bunch of de-motivated clowns that ever has a close game against cupcakes.
Quote from: elephantraker on December 19, 2016, 10:30:56 PM
Kept waiting for a play to free Sam up. Looked like playground ball a few times tonight with every man for himself esp. when Rousey started chucking long range
I think its been so long since we've had a good three point shooter that we forget that deep threes are good shots for them as long as they are in the flow of the offense. He went 6 of 13 from deep. 6 of 11 if you take out the two last second threes at the end of the half. He also had four assists. He was not "every man for himself." He was one of the only players with good offense tonight.
Some of Luke's jump hooks last night came our with curve-ball spin on them. Something in his release was spinning it sideways. First time I remember seeing that.
The game sucked, but at least we didn't have to rally from behind against a team with zero D1 wins like Creighton did the other night. If we're going to have a stinker, at least we had a stinker and still won fairly comfortably.
Quote from: T-Bone on December 19, 2016, 11:00:36 PM
But TSU is 18th in the mid-major top 25.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
(Didn't know it existed, until I looked up something on Loyola)
(No, Liberty is not on the list)
Thank, good to know.
Once again just don't see improvement over da season. Dreadfully thin in talent (LOFT). Bring on Nova, hey?
Quote from: Class71 on December 19, 2016, 08:46:27 PM
Well I like those who think we will be 10-8 or even 11-7 in the BE. What courage. I watch a game like tonight and wonder how we dropped so far in a few seasons.
My thoughts on this Game? Laughable. Some talent on the floor wiped out by stupid turnovers and another nightmare on defending the three. It looks like some players are just lost out there on D. They are either standing alone or double teaming someone who does not need a double. Live by the three and die by the three. Good luck.
My thoughts exactly; however, Howard, Hauser and Cheatham give me hope.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 20, 2016, 08:03:38 AM
Once again just don't see improvement over da season. Dreadfully thin in talent (LOFT). Bring on Nova, hey?
I think your comments pertain to our Mu Upper classmen.
Quote from: brandx on December 19, 2016, 11:52:26 PM
Well, I guess once is better than never.
Rowsey's a scrapper. I like him.
Quote from: warriorchick on December 20, 2016, 08:14:01 AM
Rowsey's a scrapper. I like him.
+1. And if Heldt has shown he can do one thing, it's throw his weight around.
On so many plays certain guys never look for Hauser. At times there were moves by teammates toward basket and Hauser was outside with clear opening for shot. A simple pass out would give hom the shot. I know he does not create his own shot that well but please look for him. Some of these guys are very selfish. Same thing happened last year with Sandy. The same guys froze him out. Watch who passes to whom I hear it from fans but not on this board. Wojo must see it.
We have a couple of guys who drive well but may be incapable of passing once they start their move. Not sure it is a conscious freezing out of Sam, just an inability to see the floor once they decide to go.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2016, 08:53:57 AM
We have a couple of guys who drive well but may be incapable of passing once they start their move. Not sure it is a conscious freezing out of Sam, just an inability to see the floor once they decide to go.
So do our coaches scout that when recruiting? Just asking.
JjJ was recruited by Buzz. In high school, the ability to dynamically get to the rim through traffic is viewed as a positive. Haanif probably rarely gave the ball up, because he rarely needed to. Any shot he took was probably, by definition, a better shot than his team would have gotten when he passed them the ball. So it is entirely possible that Wojo assumed he had court vision, but it turns out he needs to work on it. And years of coaching have taught me that seeing the floor is a very difficult thing to teach at any age.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on December 20, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
I think your comments pertain to our Mu Upper classmen.
Markus, Sam, and sometimes Cheatham have da talent to play on dis level. We'll see how dey improve. Da rest of da bunch couldn't play for my CYO team, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 20, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
Markus, Sam, and sometimes Cheatham have da talent to play on dis level. We'll see how dey improve. Da rest of da bunch couldn't play for my CYO team, hey?
Rowsey would pour in 150 a game on your CYO team.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 20, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
Markus, Sam, and sometimes Cheatham have da talent to play on dis level. We'll see how dey improve. Da rest of da bunch couldn't play for my CYO team, hey?
Hahaha...what?
Yeah but his CYO team would be well versed in middle school dick-jokes and Crean hatred.
Quote from: MU62 on December 20, 2016, 08:41:30 AM
On so many plays certain guys never look for Hauser. At times there were moves by teammates toward basket and Hauser was outside with clear opening for shot. A simple pass out would give hom the shot. I know he does not create his own shot that well but please look for him. Some of these guys are very selfish. Same thing happened last year with Sandy. The same guys froze him out. Watch who passes to whom I hear it from fans but not on this board. Wojo must see it.
I can say with pretty high confidence that nobody is "freezing out" Sam.
Sultan's gonna let us know when Vincennes University cracks USNWR's Top 100, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 20, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
Markus, Sam, and sometimes Cheatham have da talent to play on dis level. We'll see how dey improve. Da rest of da bunch couldn't play for my CYO team, hey?
Yep, we gotta lot of work to do.
Been severely disappointed with jjj this year. His turnovers are so bad its not even funny. They are simply senseless, i really believe wojo has had enuff of it. Every stupid or loafing play he made last night duane went to the scorers table n wojo didnt even say a word to jjj. Unfortunately, duane is even worse and was in foul trouble. Would not at all be surprised if the rest of the season jjj is behind rinehardt, haanif, duane and hauser. And only gets a few chances a game to prove that he is ready to play smart inspired basketball on both ends. Otherwise just bench him n let the younger kids play. His play is somewhere between retarded n ambivalent.
Give him a chance midway thru the first half n if he cant play with a chip on his shoulder, just punt.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 20, 2016, 11:03:46 AM
Been severely disappointed with jjj this year. His turnovers are so bad its not even funny. They are simply senseless, i really believe wojo has had enuff of it. Every stupid or loafing play he made last night duane went to the scorers table n wojo didnt even say a word to jjj. Unfortunately, duane is even worse and was in foul trouble. Would not at all be surprised if the rest of the season jjj is behind rinehardt, haanif, duane and hauser. And only gets a few chances a game to prove that he is ready to play smart inspired basketball on both ends. Otherwise just bench him n let the younger kids play. His play is somewhere between retarded n ambivalent.
Hmm. I would be blown away if JJJ isn't a major part of what MU does going forward. They need him. I agree his play has been very lackluster lately - he needs to pick it up. Duane too - been extremely disappointed with him so far this year. He has an opportunity in front of him now with Traci gone, and he needs to seize it.
I am also far from the PC police - but really no reason to use that word.
Quote from: MU82 on December 20, 2016, 10:32:10 AM
I can say with pretty high confidence that nobody is "freezing out" Sam.
Or Sandy.
I am also far from the PC police - but really no reason to use that word.
Punt?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 20, 2016, 08:04:50 AM
My thoughts exactly; however, Howard, Hauser and Cheatham give me hope.
Agree, that is the talent part on offense. The D can be learned. Upper classmen guards at times are either lost on D or have no options when driving. They repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Painful to watch players who are unable to learn or understand their mistakes that are Juniors and Seniors.
Quote from: Class71 on December 20, 2016, 11:45:27 AM
Agree, that is the talent part on offense. The D can be learned. Upper classmen guards at times are either lost on D or have no options when driving. They repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Painful to watch players who are unable to learn or understand their mistakes that are Juniors and Seniors.
I would not include Duane in the Juniors and Seniors that are not learning. Duane has become extremely patient in the half court game, and knows how to probe the defense without committing to a drive. He had two great passes in this vein to Luke, one for a dunk, the other a missed layup.
Duane is still learning how to be patient when attacking full court. Honestly, he is probably best giving up the ball. He is clearly learning from past mistakes though. Just wish he was a little bigger and had a slightly better handle.
Quote from: fjm on December 19, 2016, 09:11:27 PM
#4 Duke only wins by 10 vs Tennessee St. Our win doesn't look too terrible
Except Tennessee St. would finish ahead of St. John's and DePaul in the BEast this year and will almost certainly win their conference & go dancing, while StFu is one of the very worst teams in all of D1 hoops.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 20, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Except Tennessee St. would finish ahead of St. John's and DePaul in the BEast this year and will almost certainly win their conference & go dancing, while StFu is one of the very worst teams in all of D1 hoops.
Kenpom would tend to agree Tennessee State is decent (120 Kenpom, 8-3) & St Francis, PA (320 Kenpom, 3-7) is pretty bad
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 20, 2016, 12:42:30 PM
Except Tennessee St. would finish ahead of St. John's and DePaul in the BEast this year and will almost certainly win their conference & go dancing, while StFu is one of the very worst teams in all of D1 hoops.
St. Francis isn't any good, but we didn't make them look all that bad last night. They do hit the 3 at a 40% clip, which is going to win them plenty of games in the NEC.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 20, 2016, 07:31:49 AM
The game sucked, but at least we didn't have to rally from behind against a team with zero D1 wins like Creighton did the other night. If we're going to have a stinker, at least we had a stinker and still won fairly comfortably.
Intelligent discourse? Reason? Facts? Oh brew, you're so silly.
Quote from: MUFlutieEffect on December 19, 2016, 07:58:38 PM
There were a couple possessions where the shot clock hit ~10 seconds, and there couldn't have been a person at the BC or watching at home who had even a sliver of a doubt that Rowsey was gonna run it down to ~2 and chuck it up from 45 feet out.
Rowsey and Rinehart are yuuuge checkers. Never met a shot they did not like.
Quote from: tower912 on December 19, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
1. Markus, KR, you were missed. Hell, for that matter, Traci and Sandy were missed.
2. JjJ, Luke, and Duane were abysmal. But Wojo had no choice but to keep playing them.
3. I swear MU's upperclassmen think it is 'litership' and they don't do the metric system.
4. In stretches, Haanif looked damn good.
5. Rowsey tried to take over, but for him, taking over is jacking up really long 3's.
6. Turnover after turnover after turnover after turnover. Every time MU turned them over, StFU took it back.
7. This team loves the 3 and forgets to work for a good shot.
8. Teams are staying tight on Sam at the 3 pt line. Hit a couple late (thankfully) but going to have to develop the next move.
9. Wojo should have taken a couple of TO's during the course of the game rather than saving them for the end. His team needed a couple of extra minutes of rest.
10. My hat is tipped to Sam, Rowsey, and HC. They showed up and had to play a lot more than was comfortable. I am seriously torqued about how Luke, Duane, and JjJ played.
11. But nobody got hurt.
Welllll....since you are so torqued at JJJ, Luke and Wilson, then Wojo should cut them. They were not his boys anyhow,. They are seniors so Wojo should jettison that baggage now, since you are TORQUED at them. Send Wojo an email to make it happen.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 20, 2016, 04:33:30 PM
Rowsey and Rinehart are yuuuge checkers. Never met a shot they did not like.
Might one call them... Chubby Checkers?
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 20, 2016, 09:55:50 AM
Yeah but his CYO team would be well versed in middle school dick-jokes and Crean hatred.
And pathetic language skillls.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 20, 2016, 09:24:30 AM
So do our coaches scout that when recruiting? Just asking.
I had this conversation while working out at our health club with a friend who coaches high school ball this morning. Marquette does a great job recruiting blue chip athletes, but, doesn't "coach them up." Wisconsin recruits average athletes and "coaches them up."
I wish we could improve our teaching /coaching.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 20, 2016, 05:37:13 PM
I had this conversation while working out at our health club with a friend who coaches high school ball this morning. Marquette does a great job recruiting blue chip athletes, but, doesn't "coach them up." Wisconsin recruits average athletes and "coaches them up."
I wish we could improve our teaching /coaching.
I guess if Wojo has any weakness it might be that; as it was very unlikely he had to "coach them up" at Duke.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 20, 2016, 05:37:13 PM
I had this conversation while working out at our health club with a friend who coaches high school ball this morning. Marquette does a great job recruiting blue chip athletes, but, doesn't "coach them up." Wisconsin recruits average athletes and "coaches them up."
I wish we could improve our teaching /coaching.
Sorry but I don't think Bo or Gard were going to "coach up" kids like JJJ or Duane. At some point you have to just accept that you either have it or you don't, and it's pretty clear they don't.
The jury is out on whether Wojo can "coach up" his guys. I'd say in terms of fundamentals (shooting form, etc.) we've seen individual improvement. But that also just tends to happen as kids age and get more experience and used to the pace/competition. So we'll see.