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MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 04:46:17 PM

Title: Defensive theory
Post by: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 04:46:17 PM
What kind of defense should be run when your guard and wings don't contain the dribble, are undersized, and the few bigs you do have are slow?
I'm serious.  It is easy to criticize wojo and his scheme.  How do you hide the physical shortcomings of this team?
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: GGGG on December 10, 2016, 04:48:09 PM
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 04:46:17 PM
What kind of defense should be run when your guard and wings don't contain the dribble, are undersized, and the few bigs you do have are slow?
I'm serious.  It is easy to criticize wojo and his scheme.  How do you hide the physical shortcomings of this team?


Probably zone. But that's still gonna lose you a lot of games. 
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: Herman Cain on December 10, 2016, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 04:46:17 PM
What kind of defense should be run when your guard and wings don't contain the dribble, are undersized, and the few bigs you do have are slow?
I'm serious.  It is easy to criticize wojo and his scheme.  How do you hide the physical shortcomings of this team?
Wojo getting paid millions to devise the answer to that question. It is clear he doesn't have the answer.

At some point we have to consider a zone.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: MUfan12 on December 10, 2016, 04:53:03 PM
Stay in man, but pack it in. UW has had teams far less quick than this MU roster, but has been able to contain teams defensively.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 04:56:29 PM
I am beginning to think a form of pack-line defense as well. 
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 10, 2016, 04:57:35 PM
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 10, 2016, 04:53:03 PM
Stay in man, but pack it in. UW has had teams far less quick than this MU roster, but has been able to contain teams defensively.

This - we need to defend less space and allow for shorter recovery distance when we get beat/help.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 10, 2016, 06:40:23 PM
You don't. You outscore your opponents. Going to zone hampers your offense.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: jaygall31 on December 11, 2016, 02:16:46 PM
Man. No question. Start teaching the correct principles, as in force baseline. Teams get 'paint touches' way too easily on us. And its a joke.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: WarriorFan on December 11, 2016, 05:03:13 PM
One simple adjustment... fish stays in the box on high screens.  Don't switch, don't shade, don't pursue.  He gets too far out of position and cannot recover.  The man getting screened must get over the screen and back to his man.
This is not rocket science...it's an adjustment Popovich will make 2-3 times per game based on his and opposing personnel.

I'm also OK with Heldt shading on the screens because he recovers better than fish and is more defensively aware.  If the opponent is getting too many open 3's off of high screens, remove fish and insert Heldt. 
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: Marcus92 on December 12, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
Quote from: WarriorFan on December 11, 2016, 05:03:13 PMOne simple adjustment... fish stays in the box on high screens. Don't switch, don't shade, don't pursue. He gets too far out of position and cannot recover. The man getting screened must get over the screen and back to his man.

This is not rocket science...it's an adjustment Popovich will make 2-3 times per game based on his and opposing personnel.

I'm also OK with Heldt shading on the screens because he recovers better than fish and is more defensively aware. If the opponent is getting too many open 3's off of high screens, remove fish and insert Heldt.

I'd be okay with this — except that our on-ball defenders are getting burned like crazy. Markus must have run straight into at least four screens set by Happ, including one that knocked him flat on his back. Without help, that turns into an easy 2 points (or a possible and-one). Either they need to step up their games, or the team needs to communicate better — so the on-ball defender can go under the screen, or someone other than Luke can help stop dribble-drive penetration.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: HoopsterBC on December 12, 2016, 11:58:06 AM
I really do not like Fisher running around outside against the pick and roll.  Big mistake, one reason is that he always picks up a stupid foul when a player turns the
corner.  Even if he does not do anything and the offensive player runs into him they call a cheap one on Fisher.  Every game it seems.  Better to play a 2-1-2 zone and
lose from the outside instead of seeing lay-up after lay-up.  From that D, you can double low with the middle man, and the top player can move lower in the zone.
That way they could have doubled Happ much like Creighton did.    Let Vito and Showalter beat you from outside and guard Koenig pretty straight and Hayes. 

MU to small bottom line.  Not getting Kyle Washington is the killer.  Him instead of Reinhardt, big difference.  Reinhardt or even Sam guarding Hayes one-on-one was
a joke.  No way.  Looking at the Big East, it will be challenging to say the least.  Even beating Georgetown will be really hard as they are really athletic.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on December 12, 2016, 12:25:30 PM
Man. But everyone on the team needs to at least try and play defense
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: mu03eng on December 12, 2016, 12:33:54 PM
Zone is not the answer unless the question is what defense should we use situationally based on  match-up or personnel.

The problems with our defense start with the pick and roll. We are too slow with our interior defense which then forces the weak side help to stay too long so we either end up giving up easy lay-ups or corner 3s. I'd take one of two options, trap on the ball or run the defense under the screen. Right now teams are shooting 65% on 2s against us, I'd argue we should give up more looks at 3 in exchange for better interior defense.

Ultimately the next month will tell me what I need to know about Wojo. Can he adjust his philosophy to address the concerns. Wojo has repeatedly acknowledged that the defense is an issue, what does he do about it is the question. If he can't adjust(either by teaching the current philosophy "better" or changing strategy) then this season is lost for NCAA and that means with Wojo we are going to be talent dependent aka when we have the "right" players we'll win when we don't we won't.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: mu03eng on December 12, 2016, 12:34:56 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 10, 2016, 06:40:23 PM
You don't. You outscore your opponents. Going to zone hampers your offense.


100% correct, our defensive rebounding and the offense we generate from that is good to great. Going to zone(except for match-up based occasions) will make the offense worse and the defense not equivalently better.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: Benny B on December 12, 2016, 01:58:49 PM
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 04:46:17 PM
What kind of defense should be run when your guard and wings don't contain the dribble, are undersized, and the few bigs you do have are slow?
I'm serious.  It is easy to criticize wojo and his scheme.  How do you hide the physical shortcomings of this team?

Your best bet is the Box and 1 or Triangle and 2... but those won't work against teams who have more than 2 above-average players on the floor.  Unfortunately for MU, nearly every BE team is going to put at least 3 and as many as 5 above-average players on the court.

The only other alternative (other than what Wojo is doing) is to go to set schemes/plays on defense and show them a different look every possession, i.e. turn the game into a chess match and hope you can disrupt their offense into missing more shots.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: Eldon on December 12, 2016, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: Benny B on December 12, 2016, 01:58:49 PM
Your best bet is the Box and 1 or Triangle and 2... but those won't work against teams who have more than 2 above-average players on the floor.  Unfortunately for MU, nearly every BE team is going to put at least 3 and as many as 5 above-average players on the court.

The only other alternative (other than what Wojo is doing) is to go to set schemes/plays on defense and show them a different look every possession, i.e. turn the game into a chess match and hope you can disrupt their offense into missing more shots.

The easiest solution, then, is to leave the Big East and head on over to the A-10.

Defensive problems.  Solved.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: HoopsterBC on December 12, 2016, 02:23:17 PM
Quote from: Eldon on December 12, 2016, 02:19:36 PM
The easiest solution, then, is to leave the Big East and head on over to the A-10.

Defensive problems.  Solved.

Sometime it is best to try different defenses, maybe that would help.
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: Benny B on December 12, 2016, 08:24:47 PM
Quote from: Eldon on December 12, 2016, 02:19:36 PM
The easiest solution, then, is to leave the Big East and head on over to the A-10.

Defensive problems.  Solved.

Or just put together a team of guys who can win in the Big East. 
Title: Re: Defensive theory
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 12, 2016, 09:56:37 PM
Quote from: Benny B on December 12, 2016, 08:24:47 PM
Or just put together a team of guys who can win in the Big East.
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