Effin Badgers.
Let's gut these b@stards today.
Hauser for SOTG
GO WARRIORS!!!!
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=chat
I agree with this analysis.
Good to see wojo working the crowd pregame.
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 12:55:11 PM
Good to see wojo working the crowd pregame.
Glad he is doing that.
Domer a choking it away against Nova. Could be the beginning of a beautiful day!
Quote from: real chili 83 on December 10, 2016, 01:00:48 PM
Domers Are choking it away against Nova. Could be the beginning of a beautiful day!
Quote from: real chili 83 on December 10, 2016, 01:00:48 PM
Domer a choking it away against Nova. Could be the beginning of a beautiful day!
F ND.
Yo Chili! ND $ucks!!!!
Holy shite. Full house. "Traditional post players."
one to
Two quick ones on happ
Kill the dirty slow footed bad breath rodents!
Hapy on the bench means Luke is going to have to guard in space. Mixed blessing.
Expect ball screns from fishers man all night. Wojo cant teach ball screen defense
Jajuan, why don't you save some energy and instead of driving into four guys and getting stripped, just hand it to one of them.
Playing at Wisconsin's pace.
Defense looks good so far. Threes will start to drop for us.
We got this.
Need to get a hand in Koenig's grill.
Maybe JJJ should just focus on setting picks for winners
JJJ really crapping away possessions
Started ok.
Things are quickly falling apart.
Need a run
A step back three is never a slump buster, HC. JjJ playing crappy.
Not much defense the last few times down.
Score?
Looks like a good crowd on TV. Not too much red.
Katin to the rescue.
But we have to stop the TOs.
Another killer TO
Better without rinehart...
KR came to play. Sit HC, put in duane
I always liked Reinhart. ALWAYS!
Shhesh haani with an airball then a give away
Back to being sloppy.
Need to finish this final 4 strong
Haanif with zero confidence right now.
GD is haani struggling
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 01:52:44 PM
His history says otherwise
O lol.
Tried to give benefit of doubt since that's probably worst time to say we're better without him
Wojo when KR shot: "No No No - YES"
HC needs to ride some pine.
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 01:52:44 PM
His history says otherwise
+1. Katin shoots like this and that's still what his comments are going to be.
I have defended rinehart during the barrage against him
Sit HC
KR having a great game
Fish, Howard playing well
JJJ giving the game away on both ends
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 10, 2016, 01:54:07 PM
I have defended rinehart during the barrage against him
One game is a #donedeal?
I swear you could read HC's mind before that shot..." $h1t I'm open, I should probably shoot
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 10, 2016, 01:54:07 PM
I have defended rinehart during the barrage against him
perhaps you could learn to spell his name
Jjj we need u
Great defense from Duane there
Duane the best on ball defender on the team. Defending Koenig really well. But he needs a shot to drop
Great way to end the half.
Let's go Warriors!
Helluva entertaining half. Already scored more points than two years ago.
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 01:59:58 PM
Duane the best on ball defender on the team. Defending Koenig really well. But he needs a shot to drop
He needs to play big minutes in the 2nd half. JJJ was awful in that half. Bad on offense, but brutal on d.
Lots of in half complaints about certain things
But overall can't complain about a 5 pt lead at half.
More Duane please. Needs to get a shot to go in. But things are going well with him out there. Not making idiotic turnovers
Happ plays 90 seconds, so that helped
Some good defense by MU at times
Cheatham better get out of this slump thing, like Reinhardt did.
JJJ nothing and Hauser had foul trouble
ALOT of forced shots and turnovers to start.
Boys playing alright and got lead. Let's see how Wisky plays with Happ back
Keep it going.
Highlight of the first half was still the National Anthem. The 7-year-old absolutely KILLED it.
May have to hit my dwindling stock of Oktoberfest beers for the second half.
Well attendance looks good.
It's a pretty big if at this point.
But if JJJ and HC can get it going we should be looking good.
Otherwise need Sam to contribute more than Happ as both get back on court
Up 5. Happ returning in the second half.
nice half by marquette. reinhardt proving his worth thus far. fisher needs to attack happ right away in the second. we also need cheatham to pick it up, he's been a train wreck out there so far
Great D by DW on koenig, I like our chances, need t limit second half turnovers and stay out of foul trouble.GO WARRIORS!!!!
Love the Warriors. We have a lot of weapons this year.
They get Happ back, we get Sam back. Next year that might be a wash. This year? Buckle up, it's not nearly over.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 10, 2016, 02:05:12 PM
Highlight of the first half was still the National Anthem. The 7-year-old absolutely KILLED it.
did hayes actually stand with his team? or is he still protesting for his social justice causes?
Brutal start to the half
Dreadful.
Luke playing like a fucking moron trying to draw fouls
3 on Sam. He hasn't gotten on track and this doesn't help.
Wisconsin is a good team. Every player for MU has to play smarter
Can someone get a hand in Koenig's grill?
About to be blown out
Good time out. Playing dumb right now.
Quote from: PFsHeroes32 on December 10, 2016, 02:30:12 PM
About to be blown out
Yep. Cheatham looks absolutely awful.
Happ just owning Fischer
It's time for the archers unleash a barrage of threes!
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 02:29:25 PM
Wisconsin is a good team. Every player for MU has to play smarter
With Happ in the game, they are way better. What a difference, he is just outplaying Luke now.
At game. Degree of difficulty for shots way higher for MU. Too much one on one crap
This is so pathetic lol
I never liked Reinhart. NEVER!
Meltdown after meltdown is on the coach.
You can argue otherwise but this is pathetic.
And when a guy is praised for sitting your starting center with 3 fouls to start the second half. You know he's a bad coach. Praised for the bare minimum.
Down by 14 in this half and an air all 3 doesn't help. We've gone cold boys. Need to get Sam on track after this timeout.
as good as we were in the first half, we are that bad in the second. this program really needs this win at home. wojo's got to get it done
Chucking up threes to try to get back in game. Not really working.
Quote from: PFsHeroes32 on December 10, 2016, 02:36:16 PM
Meltdown after meltdown is on the coach.
You can argue otherwise but this is pathetic.
And when a guy is praised for sitting your starting center with 3 fouls to start the second half. You know he's a bad coach. Praised for the bare minimum.
ageed. team starts playing poorly and wojo is continuously unable to correct it
Kinda shows ya how much work still needs ta be done ta bump dis team back up
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 10, 2016, 02:15:41 PM
They get Happ back, we get Sam back. Next year that might be a wash.
Happ vs Heldt in 2017 will be fun
Really bad second half so far. Unless they can turn it around in the next 2 minutes they could get blown out.
Being outscored 23-7 this half. Yikes.
Ass kickin', ai na?
Hauser looking like a freshman
Beginning to look like Wojo kinda sucks at managing this team
Dreading the schedule to start Big East play right now....
fisher is terrible, cheatham has been terrible, our coach is terrible, program has really gone to hell
Probly need ta jolt Happ in da baby maker ta have any chance at all, hey?
Wow. This got ugly in a hurry. I disagree that this is on Wojo. A better team is doing what they do and we can't score.
The offensive game plan...comical.
Wojo Blows
10 points in 12 minutes is terrible. We're not going to beat anybody with that kind of offense
team starts playing poorly and they panic causing them to play worse. wojo has absolutely no ability to keep his team composed and manage his team
On an unrelated note, was Bernard Toone there at halftime?
Yeah, that about does it. JJJ misses layup and then circus make.
7 points in 11 minutes. That's pretty bad.
22 point difference in 12 minutes.
Oh well, learning for some players, but Wojo has to somehow, somewhere, get this team to keep a lead.
Quote from: Wojo's Whiteboard on December 10, 2016, 02:44:28 PM
Wow. This got ugly in a hurry. I disagree that this is on Wojo. A better team is doing what they do and we can't score.
i'm putting it 100% on wojo. the talent level on these two teams is not very different.
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 02:47:54 PM
i'm putting it 100% on wojo. the talent level on these two teams is not very different.
I agree with this analysis.
Fischer is an absolute atrocity.......No moves on the post, pathetic looking hook shot, and his defense is a joke. He's going to get abused in the BE again. Can't wait
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 02:47:54 PM
i'm putting it 100% on wojo. the talent level on these two teams is not very different.
Did marquette have a Big East pre-season player of the year I'm not aware of?
Moron.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 02:53:02 PM
Did marquette have a Big East pre-season player of the year I'm not aware of?
Moron.
No one on either team is going to play minutes in the NBA
Quote from: Shark on December 10, 2016, 02:54:36 PM
No one on either team is going to play minutes in the NBA
What does college success have to do with playing in the NBA?
Irrelevant point.
As bad as we have been on offense, the defense has been worse. Koenig shooting lights out doesn't help either.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 02:53:02 PM
Did marquette have a Big East pre-season player of the year I'm not aware of?
Moron.
Does one player make a team in college basketball? ..........that's what i thought
Got cocky, up 5 have an F'n game plan this is embarrassing
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 02:55:09 PM
What does college success have to do with playing in the NBA?
Irrelevant point.
We were speaking of talent. It's not much different. Our game plan is a stale cracker.
Much different game with Happ on the floor. Made Fischer look silly on both ends.
Make 3s!!!
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 02:55:27 PM
Does one player make a team in college basketball? ..........that's what i thought
Yes. There are multiple examples throughout history.
That's what I thought.
Regardless of you being wildly incorrect, the point was the talent level between the teams is similar. That's also wildly incorrect. Maybe the potential of our talent meets theirs, but right now it isn't even.
Anyone know the last time a team didnt shoot 50% on us?
Quote from: Shark on December 10, 2016, 02:57:00 PM
We were speaking of talent. It's not much different. Our game plan is a stale cracker.
You know that isn't true. It just isn't. Wisconsin is ranked #17 right now and has had multiple players on their team receiving previous year and pre-season accolades for a reason.
That's a crap call
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 02:58:40 PM
You know that isn't true. It just isn't. Wisconsin is ranked #17 right now and has had multiple players on their team receiving previous year and pre-season accolades for a reason.
I mean Hayes shoots like 28% from 3 but I guess we will look at pre season accolades. Never mind the fact that this offense has done nothing but pass around the perimeter and chuck 3's this half.
Tired of waiting, one year out...
Howard is a keeper. For sure.
Is there a rationale for the hit to the face on Howard not being called?
Luke on bench, so Wisky going inside. Why is best player sitting? Gard knows it and taking advantage.
Hayes on Reinhardt big mismatch.
Quote from: nyg on December 10, 2016, 03:07:35 PM
Luke on bench, so Wisky going inside. Why is best player sitting? Gard knows it and taking advantage.
Hayes on Reinhardt big mismatch.
"Best Player"............Interesting
Obviously outcoached in another big game. But hey it's the fans fault for not wanting to see them beat up on 300+ RPI teams.
Quote from: jonny09 on December 10, 2016, 03:10:12 PM
"Best Player"............Interesting
And your vote for MUs best?
let's go badgers chant at the bradley center. wojo should be embarrassed
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 02:57:38 PM
Yes. There are multiple examples throughout history.
That's what I thought.
Regardless of you being wildly incorrect, the point was the talent level between the teams is similar. That's also wildly incorrect. Maybe the potential of our talent meets theirs, but right now it isn't even.
i would ask for specific examples but i'm not going to get into a debate. the badgers are a better team, but its not like they are nova. the talent level between the teams is not vast. wojo has done nothing to show me he can coach at this level. he should be on the hot seat after this one. if you are happy with the program thus far under wojo then i guess we have very different expectations for a program that has tons of money spent on it. if this is what marquette's basketball program is, i think the money spent on it could be better allocated to different areas
Quote from: nyg on December 10, 2016, 03:12:17 PM
And your vote for MUs best?
Please just replay the 2nd half. That's all.
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 03:13:06 PM
let's go badgers chant at the bradley center. wojo should be embarrassed
Wojo doesnt care he has has big six year contract.
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 03:15:59 PM
i would ask for specific examples but i'm not going to get into a debate. the badgers are a better team, but its not like they are nova. the talent level between the teams is not vast. wojo has done nothing to show me he can coach at this level. he should be on the hot seat after this one. if you are happy with the program thus far under wojo then i guess we have very different expectations for a program that has tons of money spent on it. if this is what marquette's basketball program is, i think the money spent on it could be better allocated to different areas
Thank you for acknowledging the talent difference. The biggest difference to me is experience between the two.
I am happy with the program's trajectory. Not so much the results. Under Wojo, I've seen better recruiting/commits. I've seen continued, incremental improvements on and off the floor with the program.
He hasn't had it easy from when he came in. No coach typically does when the previous coach leaves at the bottom of his program's mark.
Maybe I just have too much patience. But I'm willing to wait. 5 years, I think, is fair - if there's continued upticks in performance and talent (recruits) as well as no off the court incidents.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 10, 2016, 02:58:13 PM
Anyone know the last time a team didnt shoot 50% on us?
Last week @Georgia
This team is 100 percent inept defensively. Scary bad
Got blitzed at the start of the second half. Wisconsin a good and experienced opponent. Not sure why all the negativity towards the program bubbles up for a bad 10 minutes. Sure it's Bucky but lighten up a little.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on December 10, 2016, 03:21:26 PM
Got blitzed at the start of the second half. Wisconsin a good and experienced opponent. Not sure why all the negativity towards the program bubbles up for a bad 10 minutes. Sure it's Bucky but lighten up a little.
We have a terrible coach. Until we get rid of him we are mired in mediocrity.
Quote from: jonny09 on December 10, 2016, 03:16:40 PM
Quote from: nyg on December 10, 2016, 03:12:17 PM
And your vote for MUs best?
Please just replay the 2nd half. That's all.
Still haven't answered the question. Who is MU's best player.
Bunchy of hairy wet cats in here. I hate losing. I hate losing to Bucky even more. But a single digit loss to a top 20 team is hardly something to burn the house down for.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 10, 2016, 03:24:05 PM
Bunchy of hairy wet cats in here. I hate losing. I hate losing to Bucky even more. But a single digit loss to a top 20 team is hardly something to burn the house down for.
+84
Quote from: BME to MD on December 10, 2016, 03:04:24 PM
Is there a rationale for the hit to the face on Howard not being called?
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketballs-5-biggest-rule-changes-this-season-things-to-know/
5. Offensive players will be granted more natural movement with the ball
This is a point of emphasis that should allow for a freer game on both ends. Offensive and defensive players are allowed a certain amount of space to make natural, normal basketball moves. For the offense, a "normal basketball play" starts with either a shot attempt, a pass or a dribble. In a sentence: An offensive player should be able to make a move without having someone jamming up on them and restricting them.
https://youtu.be/S4hkblhCl-U?t=13m48s
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 10, 2016, 03:24:05 PM
Bunchy of hairy wet cats in here. I hate losing. I hate losing to Bucky even more. But a single digit loss to a top 20 team is hardly something to burn the house down for.
Collapse after collapse is.
It's 100% coaching
Quote from: breadtree on December 10, 2016, 03:27:01 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketballs-5-biggest-rule-changes-this-season-things-to-know/
5. Offensive players will be granted more natural movement with the ball
This is a point of emphasis that should allow for a freer game on both ends. Offensive and defensive players are allowed a certain amount of space to make natural, normal basketball moves. For the offense, a "normal basketball play" starts with either a shot attempt, a pass or a dribble. In a sentence: An offensive player should be able to make a move without having someone jamming up on them and restricting them.
https://youtu.be/S4hkblhCl-U?t=13m48s
The key is the defense is entitled to their cylinder also, and allowed space for normal basketball moves. When the play started, UW's player had his back to Howard. Howard had the right to the vertical space he was in. When the UW player turns and swings elbows through that space, he commits the foul, as he is not entitle to the defensive players space.
Easy call. Refs got it completely wrong. Now, review can only determine if it should have been a flagrant on UW (not change the call). It shouldn't have been a flagrant.
Refs got the call wrong, but the review right. Was one of many 2nd half calls that were absurdly bad (all benefitting UW). Doesn't matter though, our poor defense and offense during the 16-0 run lost this game.
Yep MU crap the bed at the start of the 2nd half
Did Wojo coach Howard ta 22, hey?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 03:22:16 PM
We have a terrible coach. Until we get rid of him we are mired in mediocrity.
He definitely needs to stop coaching JJJ to make horrendous turnover and not bother playing defense. if only he could somehow motivate a highly ranked senior to stop playing like a two star freshman.
Quote from: PFsHeroes32 on December 10, 2016, 03:27:25 PM
Collapse after collapse is.
It's 100% coaching
Its not collapse after collapse. Its college basketball. We've lost to two teams we were supposed to and one that is about our level. If you listened to the posters who usually know there stuff, we are exactly where we thought we would be, 3-3 against the better teams and undefeated against the low majors.
Its also never 100% coaching. Wojo has some learning to do. But the players, specifically the seniors, need to execute.
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 03:13:06 PM
let's go badgers chant at the bradley center. wojo should be embarrassed
Just like Bo was when the WeAre Marquette chant broke out at Kohl Center last year.
Quote from: PFsHeroes32 on December 10, 2016, 03:27:25 PM
Collapse after collapse is.
It's 100% coaching
This is something not a lot of people get. We continue to see Marquette either winning or keeping the game close until some point in the second half where the other team goes on an insane run where Marquette can not score, commits stupid fouls, and stupid turnovers.
Then we come back here and talk about how we ran with them and just went on a cold spree. That's true if it happens once in a blue moon. This crap happens all the time.
Just this year. Pittsburgh, Georgia, Fresno, and Wisconsin. Im not even going to attempt to look back to last years.
This is a pattern. Patterns are coaching errors.
Quote from: #UnleashWally on December 10, 2016, 07:12:32 PM
This is something not a lot of people get. We continue to see Marquette either winning or keeping the game close until some point in the second half where the other team goes on an insane run where Marquette can not score, commits stupid fouls, and stupid turnovers.
I voted we would fold after a lead. The team lacks someone who wants the ball at the end of the game and plays tough defense at the other end. A leader will emerge ,hopefully
Then we come back here and talk about how we ran with them and just went on a cold spree. That's true if it happens once in a blue moon. This crap happens all the time.
Just this year. Pittsburgh, Georgia, Fresno, and Wisconsin. Im not even going to attempt to look back to last years.
This is a pattern. Patterns are coaching errors.
JjJ not showing up in big games, like NY = coaching error.
Getting manhandled by bigger, more physical teams= coaching error.
Duane unable to shoot the ball into Lake Michigan= coaching error.
Scoring 80+ pts against Wisconsin=Coaching error.
Lack of upperclassmen willing to lead=coaching error.
MU's problems are size related (we don't have any) which leads to defensive failings when our only big ends up guarding people 20 ft from the basket. Which I started predicting 6 months ago.
I hear the women are out for blood tomorrow.
Quote from: bradley center bat on December 10, 2016, 06:55:53 PM
Just like Bo was when the WeAre Marquette chant broke out at Kohl Center last year.
C'mon, there was real turmoil in that program then.
MU (and Wojo) has no such excuse.
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 08:53:52 PM
JjJ not showing up in big games, like NY = coaching error.
Getting manhandled by bigger, more physical teams= coaching error.
Duane unable to shoot the ball into Lake Michigan= coaching error.
Scoring 80+ pts against Wisconsin=Coaching error.
Lack of upperclassmen willing to lead=coaching error.
MU's problems are size related (we don't have any) which leads to defensive failings when our only big ends up guarding people 20 ft from the basket. Which I started predicting 6 months ago.
I remember another Marquette team that had less size. They were ranked. Some things are out of Wojos control. But trying to put off any blame from him is like turning a blind eye praying it will work out.
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 08:53:52 PM
JjJ not showing up in big games, like NY = coaching error.
Getting manhandled by bigger, more physical teams= coaching error.
Duane unable to shoot the ball into Lake Michigan= coaching error.
Scoring 80+ pts against Wisconsin=Coaching error.
Lack of upperclassmen willing to lead=coaching error.
MU's problems are size related (we don't have any) which leads to defensive failings when our only big ends up guarding people 20 ft from the basket. Which I started predicting 6 months ago.
Every bad thing associated with this team is wojo's fault. Everything good that happens on this team is in spite of wojo. That appears to be the collective opinion of scoop.
I watched Eke play and was greatly impressed with his potential to be a really good player. I have not seen Cain, but I am impressed with his stats and his number 2 ranking in state of Michigan. He may be the athletic type player MU really needs. John sounds like he could also be a very good player. They will all need a year or two to develope into solid players. I am not happy where we are presently at, but Wojo should be given the time to fully develope his team. He also still has Bailey in the pipeline.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on December 10, 2016, 09:37:19 PM
C'mon, there was real turmoil in that program then.
MU (and Wojo) has no such excuse.
What does that have to do with road fans chanting after a win. Please.
Plus, I would love back to back Final Fours as turmoil in the program. ;D
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 11, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
Every bad thing associated with this team is wojo's fault. Everything good that happens on this team is in spite of wojo. That appears to be the collective opinion of scoop.
Didn't think teal was necessary. Wojo isn't blameless. Players have to make plays.
Quote from: #UnleashWally on December 10, 2016, 09:43:26 PM
I remember another Marquette team that had less size. They were ranked. Some things are out of Wojos control. But trying to put off any blame from him is like turning a blind eye praying it will work out.
Cubi or HC? Mo or Markus? JjJ or DJO? Lazar or Sam? JFB or Luke?
Who played better on ball defense?
Who was tougher?
Who would win a scrimmage? Why?
Wojo's failings, IMO, are failing to land a 4 for this team and failing to tailor his defense to his talent. Is it up to the coach to get upperclassmen to compete on every possession? Doesn't some of that fall on the player? Perhaps a Buzz-style bootcamp would have helped this team.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2016, 06:29:53 PM
Didn't think teal was necessary. Wojo isn't blameless. Players have to make plays.
Didn't think teal was necessary on mine either.
It's just so tiresome (and predictable) to see/read the same things over and over.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2016, 06:37:02 PM
Cubi or HC? Mo or Markus? JjJ or DJO? Lazar or Sam? JFB or Luke?
Who played better on ball defense?
Who was tougher?
Who would win a scrimmage? Why?
Wojo's failings, IMO, are failing to land a 4 for this team and failing to tailor his defense to his talent. Is it up to the coach to get upperclassmen to compete on every possession? Doesn't some of that fall on the player? Perhaps a Buzz-style bootcamp would have helped this team.
Wojo isn't the only one at fault for what ails MU, but whether a team is "tough" ultimately comes down to the coach.
I've coached 9 different grade school basketball teams, 2 girls softball teams, 2 girls volleyball teams and 14 different little league baseball teams over the years. None above the 8th grade level. I coached the same way for all of them. Some were tough, some weren't. Usually, they took on the personalities of the best one or two players. If the best two players played hard, the whole team played hard. If the best two players were whiners and didn't fight when the chips were down, the team played soft.
Just this past Saturday, the 4th graders I am coaching through the Y came out flat and got smoked in the first half. One of the 9 year olds started yelling at half time about playing every possession like it is your last. I was fighting to keep a straight face. Then he went out and led his team from a 16-4 halftime deficit to a 24-24 tie. (no OT as there was another game waiting for the court) He did it without making a shot. He got 11 rebounds, 4 tie ups, 4 blocks, and 2 clean steals in 15 minutes of play. The whole team raised its game and 4 other 9 year olds scored in the second half. The parents thought the other coach and I were heroes.
Tough is either in you or it isn't.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2016, 06:37:02 PM
Perhaps a Buzz-style bootcamp would have helped this team.
Hey now your getting it.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2016, 08:43:20 PM
I've coached 9 different grade school basketball teams, 2 girls softball teams, 2 girls volleyball teams and 14 different little league baseball teams over the years. None above the 8th grade level. I coached the same way for all of them. Some were tough, some weren't. Usually, they took on the personalities of the best one or two players. If the best two players played hard, the whole team played hard. If the best two players were whiners and didn't fight when the chips were down, the team played soft.
Just this past Saturday, the 4th graders I am coaching through the Y came out flat and got smoked in the first half. One of the 9 year olds started yelling at half time about playing every possession like it is your last. I was fighting to keep a straight face. Then he went out and led his team from a 16-4 halftime deficit to a 24-24 tie. (no OT as there was another game waiting for the court) He did it without making a shot. He got 11 rebounds, 4 tie ups, 4 blocks, and 2 clean steals in 15 minutes of play. The whole team raised its game and 4 other 9 year olds scored in the second half. The parents thought the other coach and I were heroes.
Tough is either in you or it isn't.
That's alot of stats to keep for 4th graders. I don't keep stats for 8th or 9th grade teams I coach.
Other coach's wife is a stat freak. I never keep them either. But she emailed them to me around halftime of the Wisconsin game.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2016, 06:37:02 PM
Cubi or HC? Mo or Markus? JjJ or DJO? Lazar or Sam? JFB or Luke?
Who played better on ball defense?
Who was tougher?
Who would win a scrimmage? Why?
Wojo's failings, IMO, are failing to land a 4 for this team and failing to tailor his defense to his talent. Is it up to the coach to get upperclassmen to compete on every possession? Doesn't some of that fall on the player? Perhaps a Buzz-style bootcamp would have helped this team.
I agree with this. However, this is a HUGE issue. This "talent" at almost every position will be here for a while. If Wojo doesnt adjust how can it ever improve much?
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on December 12, 2016, 06:23:55 AM
I agree with this. However, this is a HUGE issue. This "talent" at almost every position will be here for a while. If Wojo doesnt adjust how can it ever improve much?
His talent is young and aren't the ones having the most issues. The main issue is that Luke is too slow footed to be effective in this defense.
I don't think the issue is the defensive scheme, or how well it fits the talent. Man-to-man isn't some new, exotic defensive scheme. It's not hard to understand in concept. O'Neill played man-to-man. Crean played man-to-man. Buzz played man-to-man. And we've had plenty of slower big men in the middle before (exhibit A: Chris Otule).
The difference is execution. Good man-to-man defense isn't just about five players defending well individually. It's about five players defending well as a team. We're not doing that right now.
I'm not opposed to strategically using zone as a change of pace, or in response to certain match-ups. But zone defense isn't some kind of magic bullet that transforms a mediocre defensive team into a good one. Marquette simply needs to work to get better.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 12, 2016, 07:30:46 AM
I don't think the issue is the defensive scheme, or how well it fits the talent. Man-to-man isn't some new, exotic defensive scheme. It's not hard to understand in concept. O'Neill played man-to-man. Crean played man-to-man. Buzz played man-to-man. And we've had plenty of slower big men in the middle before (exhibit A: Chris Otule).
The difference is execution. Good man-to-man defense isn't just about five players defending well individually. It's about five players defending well as a team. We're not doing that right now.
I'm not opposed to strategically using zone as a change of pace, or in response to certain match-ups. But zone defense isn't some kind of magic bullet that transforms a mediocre defensive team into a good one. Marquette simply needs to work to get better.
I think this is an oversimplification. While we are playing man to man, there are so many different variations of man to man. Wojo is using Duke's patented high pressure man to man. Its goal is to make opponents start their run plays from near the half court line. Can be very effective, especially with the shortened shot clock. If the shot clock goes down again as some predict it will, then it will be very effective. Need to get the right personnel and you're right we need better execution. It's Wojo's responsibility to figure out how to make that happen.
This is just it - you coach the team you have, not the team you want. You have a slow-footed center then you figure out a defensive scheme where that becomes less of a liability.
Wojo has brought in some real talent. But I have yet to see any sustained and convincing evidence that he can 1) fit his schemes (esp. defensively) to his team or 2) make any sort of meaningful in-game adjustments 3) prepare his guys with a mental toughness to play hard and buy in for the full 40 minutes. I have no doubt he'll keep doing a good job filling to cupboard with talent. But I just don't see how more years will lead to an upping of his coaching IQ. The man had 15 years sitting next to one of the greatest to ever coach the game. He's had two and a half seasons at the helm on his own. I don't just see a light bulb clicking at some point that wouldn't have already gone off.
Maybe the solution is to pay top dollar and bring in a veteran XOs assistant. Maybe it's starting from scratch - too many of the Wojo fan club here seem unfamiliar with the sunk costs. But until something changes, I think we're going to be mired with teams that under-perform to their potential.
This has been the question we've been debating all season. Is it better to change your defense every year to match your personnel at the cost of players never truly mastering a defense. Or is it better to go though the growing pains now so you eventually have a roster that has mastered a specific defense over years of practice. Is it better to be JIm Boeheim or Buzz Williams? Buzz was a master at adapting his style to his personnel. Truly elite in that area. We were spoiled. Most coaches have a defensive system and stick with it.
Wojo finally has his offense established. And it's very good. The defense is lagging. I think sticking with the scheme now will pay great dividends in the future. Wojo does need to look at how he's teaching it because it's not translating onto the court yet.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 12, 2016, 08:55:31 AM
This has been the question we've been debating all season. Is it better to change your defense every year to match your personnel at the cost of players never truly mastering a defense. Or is it better to go though the growing pains now so you eventually have a roster that has mastered a specific defense over years of practice. Is it better to be JIm Boeheim or Buzz Williams? Buzz was a master at adapting his style to his personnel. Truly elite in that area. We were spoiled. Most coaches have a defensive system and stick with it.
Wojo finally has his offense established. And it's very good. The defense is lagging. I think sticking with the scheme now will pay great dividends in the future. Wojo does need to look at how he's teaching it because it's not translating onto the court yet.
Agree with this. If, as reported, he's trying to build a long-term culture and system, now that he's got 2 of his classes, start teaching it now. Add players that fit your system each year. Deal with what you can this year and next. We'll be fine long-term that way.
More than one way to skin a cat. I'll take a longer investment/build if it means better sustained payoff in the end.
All this talk about "young talent". Any evidence that the "young talent" (Howard, Hauser, Cheatham, Carter and Heldt) will "get" whatever defensive scheme (assuming their is one) Wojo is teaching better than the "old talent" (Fischer, JJJ, Reinhardt, Rowsey and Du Wilson) do? And if it's so complex that it takes several years to grasp why do we recruit so many one year players?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 12, 2016, 09:16:21 AM
All this talk about "young talent". Any evidence that the "young talent" (Howard, Hauser, Cheatham, Carter and Heldt) will "get" whatever defensive scheme (assuming their is one) Wojo is teaching better than the "old talent" (Fischer, JJJ, Reinhardt, Rowsey and Du Wilson) do? And if it's so complex that it takes several years to grasp why do we recruit so many one year players?
I don't understand this either. Duke has many one-and-dones that are able to grasp the scheme...so learning the principles of the defense in and of itself cannot be that hard (nor is most defenses that are out there).
So the root cause has to be
1. Players are not athletic enough to execute the scheme (will that improve?)
2. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being executed (hard for fans to know)
3. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being effectively conveyed (hard for fans to know)
4. System is no good (likely not the issue in and of itself)
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 12, 2016, 09:32:18 AM
I don't understand this either. Duke has many one-and-dones that are able to grasp the scheme...so learning the principles of the defense in and of itself cannot be that hard (nor is most defenses that are out there).
So the root cause has to be
1. Players are not athletic enough to execute the scheme (will that improve?)
2. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being executed (hard for fans to know)
3. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being effectively conveyed (hard for fans to know)
4. System is no good (likely not the issue in and of itself)
I think, based on what some other smarter bball IQ posters have stated, Luke is definitely not athletic enough to fulfill his role. I would guess some of the freshmen, sophomores also need to improve their athleticism through workouts/training. That's my interpretation, anyway.
The bigs Wojo has recruited going forward appear to be more athletic bigs than someone like Luke.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 12, 2016, 09:41:07 AM
The bigs Wojo has recruited going forward appear to be more athletic bigs than someone like Luke.
Matt Heldt? Or guys still in high school? Does that mean we won't see the real Wojo D until Theo John's junior year? 2019-20 is a bit long to wait.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 12, 2016, 09:32:18 AM
I don't understand this either. Duke has many one-and-dones that are able to grasp the scheme...so learning the principles of the defense in and of itself cannot be that hard (nor is most defenses that are out there).
So the root cause has to be
1. Players are not athletic enough to execute the scheme (will that improve?)
2. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being executed (hard for fans to know)
3. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being effectively conveyed (hard for fans to know)
4. System is no good (likely not the issue in and of itself)
It is a completely silly theory. I can't wait for the '18-'19 season, when we can see the real Wojo defense!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 12, 2016, 08:55:31 AM
This has been the question we've been debating all season. Is it better to change your defense every year to match your personnel at the cost of players never truly mastering a defense. Or is it better to go though the growing pains now so you eventually have a roster that has mastered a specific defense over years of practice. Is it better to be JIm Boeheim or Buzz Williams? Buzz was a master at adapting his style to his personnel. Truly elite in that area. We were spoiled. Most coaches have a defensive system and stick with it.
Wojo finally has his offense established. And it's very good. The defense is lagging. I think sticking with the scheme now will pay great dividends in the future. Wojo does need to look at how he's teaching it because it's not translating onto the court yet.
Let's not get carried away. We're talking about a man-to-man defensive system. This isn't Al Saunders' 700-page NFL playbook. It should absolutely NOT take multiple seasons for players to master the defensive philosophies. By game 10 of the season, players should have a solid grasp on things and we shouldn't be seeing the constant breakdowns game after game, especially considering most of these guys were in this system last season. Concepts like help side D, switching off-ball screens, etc are taught at the middle school level, if not sooner.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 12, 2016, 09:16:21 AM
All this talk about "young talent". Any evidence that the "young talent" (Howard, Hauser, Cheatham, Carter and Heldt) will "get" whatever defensive scheme (assuming their is one) Wojo is teaching better than the "old talent" (Fischer, JJJ, Reinhardt, Rowsey and Du Wilson) do? And if it's so complex that it takes several years to grasp why do we recruit so many one year players?
This is the first year we're using Wojos defense. He caved the last two years and played zone for most of the season.
Not saying it takes several years to grasp. The team is behind on defense this year, no question. Wojo not doing well in this regard. But like anything else in life, the more you do something the better you get. If you switch defenses every year you won't be as good at a specific defense.
To be clear, this is a comment on those saying we should switch defensive schemes. Not an excuse for why the defense is bad.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 12, 2016, 09:32:18 AM
I don't understand this either. Duke has many one-and-dones that are able to grasp the scheme...so learning the principles of the defense in and of itself cannot be that hard (nor is most defenses that are out there).
So the root cause has to be
1. Players are not athletic enough to execute the scheme (will that improve?)
2. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being executed (hard for fans to know)
3. Instruction on proper way to play defense is not being effectively conveyed (hard for fans to know)
4. System is no good (likely not the issue in and of itself)
Duke becoming a one and done factory is fairly recent and they've had defensive issues the past few years. Honestly #s 1 through 3 have elements of truth. I think Wojo is already addressing issue 1 with next year's class. Lots of long, athletic and defensive minded recruits. Number 2 I think is being addressed. Wojos recruits seem to have a lot higher basketball IQ. Number 3 will hopefully get addressed. I agree with others that a grizzled veteran assistant could really help Wojo.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 12, 2016, 09:50:25 AM
Let's not get carried away. We're talking about a man-to-man defensive system. This isn't Al Saunders' 700-page NFL playbook. It should absolutely NOT take multiple seasons for players to master the defensive philosophies. By game 10 of the season, players should have a solid grasp on things and we shouldn't be seeing the constant breakdowns game after game, especially considering most of these guys were in this system last season. Concepts like help side D, switching off-ball screens, etc are taught at the middle school level, if not sooner.
We have different definitions of the word master. Players should have a grasp of the system by now. Wojo has failed in this regard. But if you stick with the system it gives the players a chance to improve and eventually master it. If you switch every year than the players don't have that chance. Some coaches like Buzz can do that. Wojo can't, he's a system coach. Like most coaches.
One thing is certain...this will be a long 9-day stretch. That next game can't come soon enough.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2016, 12:36:51 PM
One thing is certain...this will be a long 9-day stretch. That next game can't come soon enough.
Agree, but its longer. Until the Big East opener. These two buy games coming up will tell us very little.
Quote from: RJax55 on December 12, 2016, 12:46:00 PM
Agree, but its longer. Until the Big East opener. These two buy games coming up will tell us very little.
No, but they'll change the conversation.