We kind of cover this elsewhere, but I wanted to raise the question to those Scoopers who are questioning Wojo:
Are you serious?
To start, I'm still a believer. But I recognize that many are questioning our progress after the Michigan and Pitt debacles. It's early in the season but we're showing some of the same traits that kept us out of the post-season last year. We're reading about second guessing not hiring Howland and Cuonzo.
OK, there is some doubt that unless the team grows, the Warriors we love will be home again this spring. To most of us, that's unacceptable. The natural urge is to send the coach packing. But really, what if we do?
Well, having watch KO, Crean and the Hillbilly leave for oranger or redder pastures, here's what will happen. First, our 2017 incomings are gone. If history is a guide, the entire class will re-open recruiting and will end up elsewhere. Second, parts of our roster already here will leave. We'll hire a new coach and we won't be competitive until 2020, or later. Finally, the four-star and five-star recruits that we think might just maybe become Warriors someday might in fact become Spartans, Demons, Golden Gophers, Cyclones, Wolverines, Volunteers or, God-forbid, Badgers.
Frankly, I want to see us succeed. Yes, this year or next year would be nice, but I still think we're on the right track. We have two slots open for Jucos or spring signees and I sorta hope if not suspect that Coach Wojo will fill those positions. Preferably with a center or strong power forward.
Just hang in there.
I understand why people want Wojo gone if we miss the tournament. Its a natural fan reaction. Of course, like you said Dgies, it will guarantee at least three more years out of the postseason, if not more. You only fire a coach a scandal-less coach when he or she is no longer building an upward trajectory. We're still going up, just slower than I we had hoped. If we miss the postseason this year, we are officially behind schedule. But Wojo will get a minimum of five years before he's given the old heave ho.
I'm not ready to say we should get rid of Wojo if we don't dance the next season or two, but I have been disappointed with the trajectory. The Michigan loss didn't bother me so much - games like that happen sometimes. But the quick loss of the big lead against Pitt has me wondering about his bench coaching skills. Stallings is a very successful coach, but he's in his first season there, and his guys managed to step up while we fell apart. It's just one game so we'll see where we go from here, but well-coached teams don't give away leads like that.
I'm still optimistic, but getting ever more cautious about my optimism....
We lost 2 games everyone needs to calm down :)
This is the most sane thread in the current Wojo situation. I agree with all you dudes so far!
Why restart now? Set us back a ton more. We could be 3-1. Sadly we are not but I'm not freaked out.
Personally, I am pretty bummed with where we stand today. I honestly expect more. But firing Wojo certainly isn't the answer, and as others have said, his seat is ice cold. There remains reason for optimism, but we need to start seeing results.
I became a Marquette fan during the Buzz era, so I will always be bias - but I miss his squads. This team really needs to toughen up, and it appears we'll get some of that with next years class.
As for this season, it's time for JJJ, Reinhardt, Luke and Duane to man up. The freshman and sophomore classes are going to be very good, but we need our upperclassman to play to their highest ability. Thankfully, there's nowhere to go but up after the last two games at MSG for JJJ and Katin, and it's not like Luke or Duane played well.
Really need to beat Georgia or Wisconsin and win all home games. With that, we still got a shot. Going into BE play 8-4 would be no bueno. In that scenario, no way 10-8 is good enough.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 21, 2016, 08:18:26 PM
Personally, I am pretty bummed with where we stand today. I honestly expect more. But firing Wojo certainly isn't the answer, and as others have said, his seat is ice cold. There remains reason for optimism, but we need to start seeing results.
I became a Marquette fan during the Buzz era, so I will always be bias - but I miss his squads. This team really needs to toughen up, and it appears we'll get some of that with next years class.
As for this season, it's time for JJJ, Reinhardt, Luke and Duane to man up. The freshman and sophomore classes are going to be very good, but we need our upperclassman to play to their highest ability. Thankfully, there's nowhere to go but up after the last two games at MSG for JJJ and Katin, and it's not like Luke or Duane played well.
Really need to beat Georgia or Wisconsin and win all home games. With that, we still got a shot. Going into BE play 8-4 would be no bueno. In that scenario, no way 10-8 is good enough.
19-13 with a 10-8 record in the BE plus 1 BET win and loss would be plenty good to get into the NCAA Tournament. Creighton was a bubble team at 18-14 and 9-9 in the BE last year, and the BE is just as good this year as it was last year.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2016, 09:58:59 PM
19-13 with a 10-8 record in the BE plus 1 BET win and loss would be plenty good to get into the NCAA Tournament. Creighton was a bubble team at 18-14 and 9-9 in the BE last year, and the BE is just as good this year as it was last year.
Maybe. But 9-3 gives you so much more room for error. Don't think our NC SOS is going to be an asset, but definitely not drag us down like last year.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 21, 2016, 10:09:48 PM
Maybe. But 9-3 gives you so much more room for error. Don't think our NC SOS is going to be an asset, but definitely not drag us down like last year.
Agreed. No doubt.
We lost one game we shouldn't have. Those things sometimes happen, unfortunately. To every coach. To every program. It's really not time to panic right now. We have 2.5 (Fresno is okay too) opportunities to get some good wins and then a full conference season of them. It's very early.
Of course firing Wojo isn't the answer. But the program isn't where it needs to be when chick and I have already decided not to make the drive tomorrow.
Quote from: jsglow on November 21, 2016, 10:25:39 PM
But the program isn't where it needs to be when chick and I have already decided not to make the drive tomorrow.
If they've lost you and Chick, then it may be hopeless!
Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2016, 10:14:38 PM
Agreed. No doubt.
We lost one game we shouldn't have. Those things sometimes happen, unfortunately. To every coach. To every program. It's really not time to panic right now. We have 2.5 (Fresno is okay too) opportunities to get some good wins and then a full conference season of them. It's very early.
Fresno no bueno.
Quote from: jsglow on November 21, 2016, 10:25:39 PM
Of course firing Wojo isn't the answer. But the program isn't where it needs to be when chick and I have already decided not to make the drive tomorrow.
Perfectly said, glow.
Marquette is losing its base. That speaks volumes about where we are as a program.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2016, 09:58:59 PM
19-13 with a 10-8 record in the BE plus 1 BET win and loss would be plenty good to get into the NCAA Tournament. Creighton was a bubble team at 18-14 and 9-9 in the BE last year, and the BE is just as good this year as it was last year.
The league is up to 33-7 right now. Last week after the first Monday of the year, the Big East was 29-12. Obviously a limited sample size, but the league is tracking better this year. That's exactly why 19-13/10-8 will be plenty. And as long as it's not a bad loss, 19-14 with a first round Big East Tourney loss would probably do it. There's still a ton of basketball to be played. This past week was disappointing, but hardly damning. Win the games we should win, beat Georgia pretty much has to be the mindset now.
Starting over would be a disaster. Get Wojo a mentor.
Quote from: jsglow on November 21, 2016, 10:25:39 PM
Of course firing Wojo isn't the answer. But the program isn't where it needs to be when chick and I have already decided not to make the drive tomorrow.
I'm in a similar boat. Our drive is longer, so we usually get to about 10 mostly weekend games even in good years, but my level of enthusiasm right now says we may get even more selective this season. If we're going to drive 9 hours round trip and spend money on a hotel, it would be nice to be excited about the main event.
Like I said earlier, I'm optimistic, but more cautious....
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 22, 2016, 07:26:03 AM
Starting over would be a disaster. Get Wojo a mentor.
Does anyone really know what Chris Carrawell does?
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on November 22, 2016, 09:34:20 AM
Does anyone really know what Chris Carrawell does?
He's the stretch four in the pickup games. Important role.
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 22, 2016, 07:26:03 AM
Starting over would be a disaster. Get Wojo a mentor.
How about Coach K?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2016, 10:14:38 PM
Agreed. No doubt.
We lost one game we shouldn't have. Those things sometimes happen, unfortunately. To every coach. To every program. It's really not time to panic right now. We have 2.5 (Fresno is okay too) opportunities to get some good wins and then a full conference season of them. It's very early.
Honestly, IUPUI may not be easy tonight. Rated 2 spots ahead of Fresno (and 15 spots ahead of DePaul) on KenPom. Don't slip up tonight or against Fresno, beat one of Georgia and UW and we are in decent shape.
Quote from: jsglow on November 21, 2016, 10:25:39 PM
Of course firing Wojo isn't the answer. But the program isn't where it needs to be when chick and I have already decided not to make the drive tomorrow.
Well, I'll be there on New Years Day to cheer our Warriors on against Seton Hall. I am not a summer soldier. I was there when Al had his first winning season 14-12 and, at least that year, basketball was an after thought at MU. Patience is a virtue, but in today's world of instant everything slowly building something is not part of the lexicon. The 'We want it now.' attitude can only lead to frustration. Djies is right on. The program will be far worse if we abandon ship now. Hell, the Cubs were down 3 games and Trump could never win. There are still a lot of games to play and this is coming from an alum who does not have high expectations this year.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 22, 2016, 10:10:43 AM
Well, I'll be there on New Years Day to cheer our Warriors on against Seton Hall. I am not a summer soldier. I was there when Al had his first winning season 14-12 and, at least that year, basketball was an after thought at MU. Patience is a virtue, but in today's world of instant everything slowly building something is not part of the lexicon. The 'We want it now.' attitude can only lead to frustration. Djies is right on. The program will be far worse if we abandon ship now. Hell, the Cubs were down 3 games and Trump could never win. There are still a lot of games to play and this is coming from an alum who does not have high expectations this year.
Already bought tickets for the senior day game. JJJ last game :'(
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 22, 2016, 09:19:06 AM
I'm in a similar boat. Our drive is longer, so we usually get to about 10 mostly weekend games even in good years, but my level of enthusiasm right now says we may get even more selective this season. If we're going to drive 9 hours round trip and spend money on a hotel, it would be nice to be excited about the main event.
Like I said earlier, I'm optimistic, but more cautious....
Without going too public, chick and I had a discussion about moving to lesser seats after last season simply to stomach the reality that one or both of us were likely to attend fewer games. Historically we've missed 2-3. I'll be really surprised if that number doesn't grow this year. Hope the team's performance demands our presence. We'll see.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 22, 2016, 09:19:06 AM
I'm in a similar boat. Our drive is longer, so we usually get to about 10 mostly weekend games even in good years, but my level of enthusiasm right now says we may get even more selective this season. If we're going to drive 9 hours round trip and spend money on a hotel, it would be nice to be excited about the main event.
Like I said earlier, I'm optimistic, but more cautious....
If ya got a hotel room, make yo own main event. Hopefully, that'll get ya excited, hey?
I am firmly in the pro Wojo camp, but...... I think his seat goes from room temperature to pretty darn hot next year if things don't change. What kind of change am I looking for? It is a broad term but I want to see improvement from the whole program, which I don't think we have seen thus far, coaching,player development,etc. In my opinion it seems we are the same team we were last year, I know small sample size. I don't expect to win every game and I like the fact that our OC schedule is better and hope to see that trend continue, IMO we should be able to compete with better teams(Michigan) and middle of the road teams(Pitt) we should win. we did not do either of these two things last week. I am also a proponent of the Hank Wainwright mentor, to throw a little more accelerant on this little blaze what do folks think about Stan as a possible successor to Wojo, lends a little continuity....I'm not saying I'm just saying......
Quote from: jsglow on November 22, 2016, 10:50:06 AM
Without going too public, chick and I had a discussion about moving to lesser seats after last season simply to stomach the reality that one or both of us were likely to attend fewer games. Historically we've missed 2-3. I'll be really surprised if that number doesn't grow this year. Hope the team's performance demands our presence. We'll see.
I'm going to be working from Southern Command this winter. I'll be back in Chicago periodically and expect to buy my tickets on a spot basis when I know I am home. Instead of the seven last year, I expect this year to be more like three, as it is a bit of a commute from the Treasure Coast of Florida to the Bradley Center!
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 22, 2016, 07:26:03 AM
Starting over would be a disaster. Get Wojo a mentor. game manager
FIFY
Quote from: keefe on November 22, 2016, 12:13:28 AM
Perfectly said, glow.
Marquette is losing its base. That speaks volumes about where we are as a program.
The fact that season ticket holders get a complimentary ticket to a non-conf game is also pretty telling as to the decreasing interest in the program.
Quote from: manny31 on November 22, 2016, 10:55:52 AM
I am firmly in the pro Wojo camp, but...... I think his seat goes from room temperature to pretty darn hot next year if things don't change. What kind of change am I looking for? It is a broad term but I want to see improvement from the whole program, which I don't think we have seen thus far, coaching,player development,etc. In my opinion it seems we are the same team we were last year, I know small sample size. I don't expect to win every game and I like the fact that our OC schedule is better and hope to see that trend continue, IMO we should be able to compete with better teams(Michigan) and middle of the road teams(Pitt) we should win. we did not do either of these two things last week. I am also a proponent of the Hank Wainwright mentor, to throw a little more accelerant on this little blaze what do folks think about Stan as a possible successor to Wojo, lends a little continuity....I'm not saying I'm just saying......
I am all in with you on Stan as the possible successor.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 21, 2016, 04:32:55 PM
Finally, the four-star and five-star recruits that we think might just maybe become Warriors someday might in fact become Spartans, Demons, Golden Gophers, Cyclones, Wolverines, Volunteers or, God-forbid, Badgers.
What four and five star recruits are we in on at his point?
Quote from: Norm on November 22, 2016, 12:00:09 PM
What four and five star recruits are we in on at his point?
Joey Hauser for one.
SANDY WAS NOT A BIG TIME D-1 TALENT. HE DID HAVE HIS MOMENTS.
I THINK EPPERSON AND D. TILLMAN WOULD BE A GOOD START FOR
THE 2 SCHOLLIES LEFT. FOR 2018, HAUSER, RACE THOMPSON AND
AYO DOSUNMU FROM CHICAGO. MY THOUGHTS ONLY.
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/863/Capslock.jpg)
Quote from: Earl Tatum on November 22, 2016, 12:34:42 PM
SANDY WAS NOT A BIG TIME D-1 TALENT. HE DID HAVE HIS MOMENTS.
I THINK EPPERSON AND D. TILLMAN WOULD BE A GOOD START FOR
THE 2 SCHOLLIES LEFT. FOR 2018, HAUSER, RACE THOMPSON AND
AYO DOSUNMU FROM CHICAGO. MY THOUGHTS ONLY.
Who are you kicking off the team in order to make room for all those players?
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on November 22, 2016, 10:01:43 AM
Honestly, IUPUI may not be easy tonight. Rated 2 spots ahead of Fresno (and 15 spots ahead of DePaul) on KenPom. Don't slip up tonight or against Fresno, beat one of Georgia and UW and we are in decent shape.
If we don't come out and pound IUPUI (or any team in the 170s) at home after last Thursday/Friday, I don't have much hope for conference season. Fresno/IUPUI/DePaul are teams that tourney caliber teams whoop up on at home.
Fischer, Reinhardt, Rowsey, Johnson are seniors, Wilson is a R/S JR, on a roster of 10.Epperson, and D. Tillman will fill out the 10, 2018- J.Hauser,
Dosunmu would be 12. Someone would transfer or R/S which makes
room for Thompson
Don't believe Sacar will be back.
Sorry about the caps. We might need a guy to do the X's and O's like
Hank.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on November 22, 2016, 03:26:20 PM
Don't believe Sacar will be back.
He'll be back. He didn't burn his redshirt only to transfer and sit out another year.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on November 22, 2016, 03:23:59 PM
Fischer, Reinhardt, Rowsey, Johnson are seniors, Wilson is a R/S JR, on a roster of 10.Epperson, and D. Tillman will fill out the 10, 2018- J.Hauser,
Dosunmu would be 12. Someone would transfer or R/S which makes
room for Thompson
Rowsey is a R/S JR as well
Messed up--forgot Brendan Bailey
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on November 22, 2016, 03:45:22 PM
He'll be back. He didn't burn his redshirt only to transfer and sit out another year.
I suppose he could transfer at semester, then have 2.5 years left at his new school starting in Dec. '17.
Quote from: Litehouse on November 22, 2016, 03:54:51 PM
I suppose he could transfer at semester, then have 2.5 years left at his new school starting in Dec. '17.
He *could* but I don't think that'll happen.
I am more concerned about Duane grad transferring or Traci seeing that he won't get the time with Rowsey and Howard playing that position. To be honest, I see Sandy's transfer as getting Sacar more time.
Quote from: jsglow on November 22, 2016, 10:50:06 AM
Without going too public, chick and I had a discussion about moving to lesser seats after last season simply to stomach the reality that one or both of us were likely to attend fewer games. Historically we've missed 2-3. I'll be really surprised if that number doesn't grow this year. Hope the team's performance demands our presence. We'll see.
There is emotion and then there is sentiment. Apathy and indifference is setting in, even among hard core fans and alums such as yourselves. Sad
I will be heading up. Should be a good game. Will be interesting to see how the boys will bounce back.
Btw, one can move back to keep your points bumps by throwing in the women's team. Hot ticket.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on November 22, 2016, 03:29:27 PM
Sorry about the caps. We might need a guy to do the X's and O's like
Hank.
I like the caps. You are one of the best posters we have.