MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Herman Cain on October 28, 2016, 10:19:46 PM
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I find it interesting that there is no reference to upping our US news rating in the strategic plan. Obviously Lovell and Company are dumbing the standard down. The sooner we get rid of him the better.
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I find it interesting that there is no reference to upping our US news rating in the strategic plan. Obviously Lovell and Company are dumbing the standard down. The sooner we get rid of him the better.
Can we just get rid of you instead?
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I find it interesting that there is no reference to upping our US news rating in the strategic plan. Obviously Lovell and Company are dumbing the standard down. The sooner we get rid of him the better.
Lol
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Can we just get rid of you instead?
We have too many losers like you for alumni.
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I find it interesting that there is no reference to upping our US news rating in the strategic plan. Obviously Lovell and Company are dumbing the standard down. The sooner we get rid of him the better.
Good. Doesn't get wrapped up in meaningless metrics.
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We have too many losers like you for alumni.
Insulting general MU alumni? Bold choice.
Especially considering you aren't one...
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Good. Doesn't get wrapped up in meaningless metrics.
There needs to be an objective standard. The world is a competitive place. We need better faculty , better students and better facilities. You get that by having successful alumni who give back a lot of money.
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Insulting general MU alumni? Bold choice.
Especially considering you aren't one...
Says the guy who drives a cab. A real great representation of our school.
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Says the guy who drives a cab. A real great representation of our school.
1. I don't.
2. A really great representation of Marquette is a person who clearly judges/denigrates others for doing what they can/have to to make a living. Quite the Jesuit ideals there. Even more evidence that you didn't attend our great university
3. You should probably spend more time at DaytonScoop from here on out.
What a jerk
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Says the guy who drives a cab. A real great representation of our school.
“I think everyone should go to college and get a degree and then spend six months as a bartender and six months as a cab driver. Then they would really be educated.” ~Al McGuire
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There needs to be an objective standard. The world is a competitive place. We need better faculty , better students and better facilities. You get that by having successful alumni who give back a lot of money.
It is debatable if there "needs" to be an objective standard.
Regardless, USNWR rankings are crap. Pablum for the the tea sippers who want to brag about where they are sending junior to school.
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It is debatable if there "needs" to be an objective standard.
Regardless, USNWR rankings are crap. Pablum for the the tea sippers who want to brag about where they are sending junior to school.
Like it or not, its da gold standard. Ya can ether stick yo head in da sand or get down and dirty like Northeastern did and prosper, hey?
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Like it or not, its da gold standard. Ya can ether stick yo head in da sand or get down and dirty like Northeastern did and prosper, hey?
It isn't the gold standard. Marquette understands its competitive environment and why people choose to attend. Chasing these ratings for the sake of the ratings can actually lead to decisions that aren't in the best interests of the school long term and a poor allocation of resources.
If you want to aspire to be Northeastern, go ahead. It seems to me that this is more important to certain alumni who want to brag about their school more than anything.
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For instance...let's go back to this years freshman class.
It apparently is very good class both quality and quantity wise. They targeted their marketing toward students that they believed would seriously consider the school. And it worked! However the acceptance rate went up.
According to the USNWR metrics, it would be better if Marquette obtained the same results through mass marketing, encouraging massive applications, and choosing the same exact people. So the metric dictates that you spend more money on publications, application review, admissions personnel, etc. etc. etc. The metric dictates that you don't narrow down and target your audience - pretty much what any business aspires to do.
It's silly.
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For instance...let's go back to this years freshman class.
It apparently is very good class both quality and quantity wise. They targeted their marketing toward students that they believed would seriously consider the school. And it worked! However the acceptance rate went up.
According to the USNWR metrics, it would be better if Marquette obtained the same results through mass marketing, encouraging massive applications, and choosing the same exact people. So the metric dictates that you spend more money on publications, application review, admissions personnel, etc. etc. etc. The metric dictates that you don't narrow down and target your audience - pretty much what any business aspires to do.
It's silly.
Spot on Sultan. That is exactly what they chose to do. And it worked.
And this is new to me. MU Fan in NY is NOT an alum? Just a fan of the basketball team?
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It isn't the gold standard. Marquette understands its competitive environment and why people choose to attend. Chasing these ratings for the sake of the ratings can actually lead to decisions that aren't in the best interests of the school long term and a poor allocation of resources.
If you want to aspire to be Northeastern, go ahead. It seems to me that this is more important to certain alumni who want to brag about their school more than anything.
Ax a high school junior, or better yet his/her parents, what resources dey consult in makin' college selection decisions. USNWR is a very hot commodity the dey its college rankin's are released, hey?
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Ax a high school junior, or better yet his/her parents, what resources dey consult in makin' college selection decisions. USNWR is a very hot commodity the dey its college rankin's are released, hey?
I never once ever considered what MU'a school rank was. And I think most Marquette students are coming from the Midwest and the school values and religious ties are much more important to 99% of them than how it compares to Stanford. If someone's down to Marquette and Stanford they should probably not have Marquette in their final 2 schools and I have no problem with that.
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I find it interesting that there is no reference to upping our US news rating in the strategic plan. Obviously Lovell and Company are dumbing the standard down. The sooner we get rid of him the better.
Sweet fancy moses.
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The asked and STILL UNANSWERED question is whether MUFNY is an alumni.
(http://podaholics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/You-cant-handle-the-truth6.jpg)
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And I think most Marquette students are coming from the Midwest and the school values and religious ties are much more important to 99% of them than how it compares to Stanford.
This is part of the problem. It's been a long time since I was at Marquette, but I do remember a fairly substantial east coast presence among my fellow students. Marquette knows it needs to expand its regional focus outside Wisconsin and Suburban Chicago (let's understand what Marquette's Midwest really means, here) to ensure it has a strong, diverse student body. When we come from different regions and from different cultures and visions, we're all better off.
Basketball is a big part of this geographical diversity because it keeps Marquette in the national spotlight. A crappy basketball team and we become more regional in focus.
I don't disagree that the Jesuit values are very important. I have two children at a state university which was right for them academically but the campus environment is so much different that what I remember Marquette to be. Some of that is the changing times and some is just simply the lack of an overhanging Catholicism. There's something about the openness of what Marquette subscribes to that's extremely important, both years ago and now.
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This is part of the problem. It's been a long time since I was at Marquette, but I do remember a fairly substantial east coast presence among my fellow students. Marquette knows it needs to expand its regional focus outside Wisconsin and Suburban Chicago (let's understand what Marquette's Midwest really means, here) to ensure it has a strong, diverse student body. When we come from different regions and from different cultures and visions, we're all better off.
Basketball is a big part of this geographical diversity because it keeps Marquette in the national spotlight. A crappy basketball team and we become more regional in focus.
I don't disagree that the Jesuit values are very important. I have two children at a state university which was right for them academically but the campus environment is so much different that what I remember Marquette to be. Some of that is the changing times and some is just simply the lack of an overhanging Catholicism. There's something about the openness of what Marquette subscribes to that's extremely important, both years ago and now.
I could not agree more with this sentiment. I'm an MU alum from the NYC suburbs. Had no family ties to the Midwest whatsoever and chose MU due to a great comm program and epic visit as Senior in high school. Had a great time in MKE those 4 years but had no intention of staying there and moved back to the NYC area after graduating in the early 90's where I've lived ever since.
I don't agree with chasing rankings for rankings sake and while US News rankings aren't the be all and the end all, it's a mistake to discount them entirely. People in this part of the country take them seriously and if MU wants to expand the geographic footprint of its undergraduate student body, they need to play the game. If they try to be Harvard, or even Georgetown, they will lose so I'm not advocating for that, but a 77% acceptance rate quite frankly is embarrassing even if all other metrics of the incoming class continue to improve. MU doesn't even make a cursory effort to recruit at public high schools outside of the Midwest and that's a real shame because they'll only attract the same 1 or 2 students they get to go there every year from the few Catholic high schools here. If they think students are unwilling to travel there they're wrong. UW Madison has 1000 times as many students from this area that Marquette does and MKE is more accessible from this area then Madison. I just don't understand it.
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Basketball is a big part of this geographical diversity because it keeps Marquette in the national spotlight. A crappy basketball team and we become more regional in focus.
Shoutout to the men's and women's lacrosse teams.
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a 77% acceptance rate quite frankly is embarrassing even if all other metrics of the incoming class continue to improve.
So Marquette is stupid if it only recruits kids who are actually interested in Marquette, keeps its admission standards just as high, enrolls the largest freshman class in several years, and saves hundreds of thousands of dollars in recruiting costs?
The organization who is stupid here is USNWR for using the raw acceptance rate as a metric to judge educational quality.
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So Marquette is stupid if it only recruits kids who are actually interested in Marquette, keeps its admission standards just as high, enrolls the largest freshman class in several years, and saves hundreds of thousands of dollars in recruiting costs?
The organization who is stupid here is USNWR for using the raw acceptance rate as a metric to judge educational quality.
Amen.
People want schools to "act more like a business." That's exactly what Marquette is doing here. Targeting their resources. The reason that Marquette doesn't recruit at public schools in the northeast is because the cost / benefit analysis was way out of whack.
Nothing embarrassing at all about it.
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I find it interesting that there is no reference to upping our US news rating in the strategic plan. Obviously Lovell and Company are dumbing the standard down. The sooner we get rid of him the better.
I agree it's important to be improving the communication of excellence for MU academically. Boosting into a significantly higher ranking would be similar to what the Final Four did for admissions, but based on academics.
Disagree that the USNWR is an objective measure, but some of the underlying metrics are certainly measured by MU and something they are trying to boost:
1) # of applicants
2) Yield
3) Avg GPA/Test Scores
These things all rose with the Final Four, and should continue to rise for non-basketball reasons as well.
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I agree it's important to be improving the communication of excellence for MU academically. Boosting into a significantly higher ranking would be similar to what the Final Four did for admissions, but based on academics.
Disagree that the USNWR is an objective measure, but some of the underlying metrics are certainly measured by MU and something they are trying to boost:
1) # of applicants
2) Yield
3) Avg GPA/Test Scores
These things all rose with the Final Four, and should continue to rise for non-basketball reasons as well.
Marquette can only accommodate about 2000 new students per year. They are not interested in significantly increasing that number. If they are already hitting their enrollment targets (which they are) they cannot increase the number of applicants and the yield at the same time.
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Ya can increase da number of applicants snd decrease the yield doe, resultin' in a more select class, witch is what folks here are sayin', hey?
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Ya can increase da number of applicants snd decrease the yield doe, resultin' in a more select class, witch is what folks here are sayin', hey?
And increase your costs in the process. Smart plan.
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Ya can increase da number of applicants snd decrease the yield doe, resultin' in a more select class, witch is what folks here are sayin', hey?
Actually, no, unless "boosting the yield" means decreasing it. The yield is the percentage of accepted students who enroll, not the percentage of applicants.
Schools always want to have as high of a yield as possible. That's why Early Decision has become so popular among top tier schools. When a student applies for an Early Decision, he or she is promising to enroll in that school if they are accepted. Theoretically, the yield among your Early Decision applicants will be 100%. That's why if you really have your heart set on a school, it's best to apply for Early Decision if they offer it. They are more likely to accept a borderline application if they know it's a "done deal", as it were.
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Actually, no, unless "boosting the yield" means decreasing it. The yield is the percentage of accepted students who enroll, not the percentage of applicants.
Schools always want to have as high of a yield as possible. That's why Early Decision has become so popular among top tier schools. When a student applies for an Early Decision, he or she is promising to enroll in that school if they are accepted. Theoretically, the yield among your Early Decision applicants will be 100%. That's why if you really have your heart set on a school, it's best to apply for Early Decision if they offer it. They are more likely to accept a borderline application if they know it's a "done deal", as it were.
Exactly. You are on a roll!
That is the exact problem with this metric. It goes against well established business practices used across the industry today. People have bitched and moaned about Marquette's tuition. Well here we have a recruitment and admissions process that has become more cost effective, and people are complaining about that too.
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Ya can increase da number of applicants snd decrease the yield doe, resultin' in a more select class, witch is what folks here are sayin', hey?
One way to increase applications is to solicit students with no chance to of getting in. Bombard them with junk mail, waive application fees, give them false hope.
None of this improves the quality of Marquette's incoming class. It does waste a lot of money and may improve arbitrary rankings. Not sure it will increase student quality of students that actually attend Marquette.
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The percentage of applications accepted is a meaningless number.
Imagine going into a college website to apply (let's call it Frozena University, or F.U.), and the first thing that pops up is a screen that said,
"Look, I am sure you are a great kid with many accomplishments, but we don't want to give out any false hope or waste your time, so we will to be honest with you. If you are below the 90th percentile on your SAT or ACT, you aren't getting in, no matter how amazing your extracurriculars, your essay, or your references are. Last year, no one who was accepted or got on our waitlist was below the 95th percentile. If you still want to apply, that's cool, but we just want to be straight with you."
Wouldn't that cause applications to plummet, and as a result, the acceptance rate to skyrocket? And in it what way did that negatively impact the quality of the education received at F.U.?
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The percentage of applications accepted is a meaningless number.
Imagine going into a college website to apply (let's call it Frozena University, or F.U.), and the first thing that pops up is a screen that said,
"Look, I am sure you are a great kid with many accomplishments, but we don't want to give out any false hope or waste your time, so we will to be honest with you. If you are below the 90th percentile on your SAT or ACT, you aren't getting in, no matter how amazing your extracurriculars, your essay, or your references are. Last year, no one who was accepted or got on our waitlist was below the 95th percentile. If you still want to apply, that's cool, but we just want to be straight with you."
Wouldn't that cause applications to plummet, and as a result, the acceptance rate to skyrocket? And it what way to did that negatively impact the quality of the education received at F.U.?
What a metaphor for all those elite schools.
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What a metaphor for all those elite schools.
Oh, really? I hadn't noticed. ;)
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This is part of the problem. It's been a long time since I was at Marquette, but I do remember a fairly substantial east coast presence among my fellow students. Marquette knows it needs to expand its regional focus outside Wisconsin and Suburban Chicago (let's understand what Marquette's Midwest really means, here) to ensure it has a strong, diverse student body. When we come from different regions and from different cultures and visions, we're all better off.
Basketball is a big part of this geographical diversity because it keeps Marquette in the national spotlight. A crappy basketball team and we become more regional in focus.
I don't disagree that the Jesuit values are very important. I have two children at a state university which was right for them academically but the campus environment is so much different that what I remember Marquette to be. Some of that is the changing times and some is just simply the lack of an overhanging Catholicism. There's something about the openness of what Marquette subscribes to that's extremely important, both years ago and now.
I have spent many hours with parents and students trying to get them to attend MU. We have so much to offer, but many can just not overcome the high acceptance rate and correspondingly lower US News ranking. When parents and students are making a commitment of up to a quarter of a million dollars they want something for their money.
We want lots of people out there saying that they could not get into MU. It makes us a more elite institution. Yes I know many years ago we were the private school that was accessible to the common man. Those days are long gone.
One of the related problems, is our admissions department makes no effort at all to come to the top public schools in our area. There are so many kids who would love to hear from Marquette and the market is much bigger than they think. We could increase the viable applicants very easily. Spend a couple days going to schools in each of the major suburban sectors of the tri state area i.e. CT, Long Island, NJ, Westchester etc.
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I have spent many hours with parents and students trying to get them to attend MU. We have so much to offer, but many can just not overcome the high acceptance rate and correspondingly lower US News ranking. When parents and students are making a commitment of up to a quarter of a million dollars they want something for their money.
Please stop trying to sell Marquette to those people. They are dumb. Neither acceptance rate nor USNWR rankings has anything to do with the quality product they will receive.
We want lots of people out there saying that they could not get into MU. It makes us a more elite institution. Yes I know many years ago we were the private school that was accessible to the common man. Those days are long gone.
Marquette has higher standards now than when I was in school. Acceptance rate isn't really a function of that however. Acceptance rate simply means you have convinced a bunch of people to apply who can't get in.
One of the related problems, is our admissions department makes no effort at all to come to the top public schools in our area.
Good. It's a waste of resources.
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Please stop trying to sell Marquette to those people. They are dumb.
Marquette has higher standards now than when I was in school. Acceptance rate isn't really a function of that however. Acceptance rate simply means you have convinced a bunch of people to apply who can't get in.
Good. It's a waste of resources.
Your answers are reflective of the type of lower tier student we are trying to get away from attracting. We need a much better grade of student to who will ultimately go on to be leaders in their chosen fields. That brings a much higher profile to the school.
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Your answers are reflective of the type of lower tier student we are trying to get away from attracting. We need a much better grade of student to who will ultimately go on to be leaders in their chosen fields. That brings a much higher profile to the school.
Because current alumni aren't leaders in their fields?
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Your answers are reflective of the type of lower tier student we are trying to get away from attracting. We need a much better grade of student to who will ultimately go on to be leaders in their chosen fields. That brings a much higher profile to the school.
And your ideas suggest that you are completely ignorant about how most private schools go about targeting and selecting their students these days. Your thoughts are outdated and out of place. There are numerous schools, both public and private, who have increased the quality of their incoming students without worrying about acceptance rate and ratings.
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And your ideas suggest that you are completely ignorant about how most private schools go about targeting and selecting their students these days. Your thoughts are outdated and out of place. There are numerous schools, both public and private, who have increased the quality of their incoming students without worrying about acceptance rate and ratings.
Come on Sultan, you're just another "loser alumni". Welcome to the club.
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Because current alumni aren't leaders in their fields?
We have a handful of big league people. We need more as the good ones retire and die . Creating new movers and shakers takes decades. Have to start now if want to make progress on the goal. No reason in my mind that we can't have same profile as BC or Georgetown. For now our first goal needs to be achieving parity with Villanova in US News.
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Just ta be clear, its Georgetown, BC, ND and da also rans. Those schools are on a ho different level than places like Loyola, Creighton, SLU, Detroit, Fordham, MU, etc. Not even a ballgame, hey?
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Just ta be clear, its Georgetown, BC, ND and da also rans. Those schools are on a ho different level than places like Loyola, Creighton, SLU, Detroit, Fordham, MU, etc. Not even a ballgame, hey?
Your correct right now it is not a ballgame. With better senior management vision we can make a run with the leaders. Even if we fall short better to set our standards high.
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We have a handful of big league people. We need more as the good ones retire and die . Creating new movers and shakers takes decades. Have to start now if want to make progress on the goal. No reason in my mind that we can't have same profile as BC or Georgetown. For now our first goal needs to be achieving parity with Villanova in US News.
I think we actually more potential bigwigs in the pipeline than we did a generation ago. We are enrolling smarter people and the education they are receiving is better. What we don't have, and what we need, is a Notre-Dame type PR network. Say what you will about Domers in other areas, but they certainly know how to take care of each other, and brag about their alma mater.
We need to instill the mindset in our alumni that if you are looking to hire, the first thing to do is to work your Marquette contacts. Put a post on the Marquette alumni LinkedIn site, attend Marquette functions, grow your MU network, lobby your HR department to include Marquette among its college visits for recent-grad jobs. At work, make a big deal about the fact that you are a Marquette graduate. Brag about their rankings in Real Estate and Supply Chain management. Tell your outside accounting firm, engineering consultant, etc., that they need to hire more Marquette grads. No outsiders are going to know how great a school Marquette is if their alums don't talk about it.
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I think we actually more potential bigwigs in the pipeline than we did a generation ago. We are enrolling smarter people and the education they are receiving is better. What we don't have, and what we need, is a Notre-Dame type PR network. Say what you will about Domers in other areas, but they certainly know how to take care of each other, and brag about their alma mater.
We need to instill the mindset in our alumni that if you are looking to hire, the first thing to do is to work your Marquette contacts. Put a post on the Marquette alumni LinkedIn site, attend Marquette functions, grow your MU network, lobby your HR department to include Marquette among its college visits for recent-grad jobs. At work, make a big deal about the fact that you are a Marquette graduate. Brag about their rankings in Real Estate and Supply Chain management. Tell your outside accounting firm, engineering consultant, etc., that they need to hire more Marquette grads. No outsiders are going to know how great a school Marquette is if their alums don't talk about it.
Couldn't agree more. On top of this (while I graduated a while back) I felt MU's Career Services were lacking too. I would love to see MU develop more corporate sponsors and improve their over all career/alumni services.
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I think we actually more potential bigwigs in the pipeline than we did a generation ago. We are enrolling smarter people and the education they are receiving is better. What we don't have, and what we need, is a Notre-Dame type PR network. Say what you will about Domers in other areas, but they certainly know how to take care of each other, and brag about their alma mater.
We need to instill the mindset in our alumni that if you are looking to hire, the first thing to do is to work your Marquette contacts. Put a post on the Marquette alumni LinkedIn site, attend Marquette functions, grow your MU network, lobby your HR department to include Marquette among its college visits for recent-grad jobs. At work, make a big deal about the fact that you are a Marquette graduate. Brag about their rankings in Real Estate and Supply Chain management. Tell your outside accounting firm, engineering consultant, etc., that they need to hire more Marquette grads. No outsiders are going to know how great a school Marquette is if their alums don't talk about it.
Marketing is a huge part of a schools reputation. A great example is the Northwestern Kellogg School of Management. Back in my day it was considered barely at the bottom end of the top business schools. They took the people that Ivys U of C Stanford etc rejected. Part of the reason they had a problem was not enough grads were in high profile jobs. So they put a big marketing campaign on, moved themselves up in the rankings and convinced the major wall street and prestigious consulting firms to take more than a cursory look at their grads. Many of these grads have done very well and are plowing money back into the school. Now they have a huge new $220 million building going up on campus and have tremendous standing.
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/about/transforming/priorities/global-hub.aspx#ad-image-0
We have a lot of strengths as a school we just need to be better salesman and promoters . We all need to be opening doors for these kids. Great example is Accounting , lets get as many kids into major accounting/IT consulting firms as we can. Those places give a young person a great exposure and experience, it can be a stepping stones for big things. Same with entry level Consumer Packaged Goods and Advertising , great places to build skills. One of the reasons UW was tied for the top in Fortune 500 CEOS was it had tons of grads starting out in the professions I outlined above.
That is one of the reasons I would like to see us have a bigger presence in the high end public high schools in our area. Parents who are big wigs pay attention to where various kids are going to school. Would really help if we had one kid a year from some of these places matriculate. Over time it builds our reputation in the job market.
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I think we actually more potential bigwigs in the pipeline than we did a generation ago. We are enrolling smarter people and the education they are receiving is better. What we don't have, and what we need, is a Notre-Dame type PR network. Say what you will about Domers in other areas, but they certainly know how to take care of each other, and brag about their alma mater.
We need to instill the mindset in our alumni that if you are looking to hire, the first thing to do is to work your Marquette contacts. Put a post on the Marquette alumni LinkedIn site, attend Marquette functions, grow your MU network, lobby your HR department to include Marquette among its college visits for recent-grad jobs. At work, make a big deal about the fact that you are a Marquette graduate. Brag about their rankings in Real Estate and Supply Chain management. Tell your outside accounting firm, engineering consultant, etc., that they need to hire more Marquette grads. No outsiders are going to know how great a school Marquette is if their alums don't talk about it.
I agree with most of the chick's sentiments here, but they do express a very midwestern regional mindset. I'm an NYC area guy through and through having spent my entire life in this area with the exception of the four years I spent in MKE. One of the reasons Marquette doesn't have anywhere near the PR network that ND has is because 85% of their undergraduate student body grew up within 100 miles of MKE. I'd be willing to bet that at least 50% of ND's undergraduate student body grew up more than 500 miles from South Bend, Indiana. I grew up in southern Connecticut but my brother went to ND. The overwhelming number of his college buddies that he still keeps in touch with weren't originally from the Midwest but the Northeast or California or Texas. Obviously a lot of that is due to prestige, and while it's unrealistic for Marquette to replicate the geographic footprint of its undergraduate student body to ND's or for that matter any private institution in the US news top 25, they could still do a better job on the national recruiting front.
It's great that Marquette has a highly ranked program in supply chain management. Unfortunately that means absolute Jack in this part of the country. Marquette's finance program is also ranked in the top 20 by USNR which is awesome, but unfortunately that doesn't mean jack either because of the elitist douches who control that industry. If you want to get an entry level finance job in NYC you have a much better chance if you go to an Ivy League or nationally ranked liberal arts college and majored in classics or philosophy. Sad but true. Marquette has made tremendous progress in this area though and high profile NYC Wall Street placements are on the rise among on recent MU grads, but they still face an incredibly uphill battle, not because they're any less intelligent or capable than recent grads from ivy league or other more prestigious schools, but because MU simply doesn't have the alumni network in NYC.
I'm generally in agreement with and sympathetic to most of MU Fan in NY's posts but I think I probably have more acceptance of Marquette's place in the higher education ladscape. Look Marquette is never going to be a Georgetown, ND, or BC and that's ok, but they do need to start acting more like a national university, instead of original one. When I was a student there more than a quarter century ago, career services was completely useless unless you were looking a job in Wisconsin or greater Chicago. I currently serve as a mentor for both the business school and communication school and from what my student protégés tell me, both of whom are from the northeastern United States by the way..... It hasn't changed much from when I was there. I think the administration is finally starting to recognize that which is why they're developing a long distance alumni mentor program, but it's still not enough.
At the end of the day recruiting undergraduates from a much more diverse area then they have historically will do far more to increase MU's national reputation in any superficial ranking like US news and world report.
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Nothin' much is gonna change 'til da endowment increases big league, ai na?
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I agree with most of the chick's sentiments here, but they do express a very midwestern regional mindset. I'm an NYC area guy through and through having spent my entire life in this area with the exception of the four years I spent in MKE. One of the reasons Marquette doesn't have anywhere near the PR network that ND has is because 85% of their undergraduate student body grew up within 100 miles of MKE. I'd be willing to bet that at least 50% of ND's undergraduate student body grew up more than 500 miles from South Bend, Indiana. I grew up in southern Connecticut but my brother went to ND. The overwhelming number of his college buddies that he still keeps in touch with weren't originally from the Midwest but the Northeast or California or Texas. Obviously a lot of that is due to prestige, and while it's unrealistic for Marquette to replicate the geographic footprint of its undergraduate student body to ND's or for that matter any private institution in the US news top 25, they could still do a better job on the national recruiting front.
It's great that Marquette has a highly ranked program in supply chain management. Unfortunately that means absolute Jack in this part of the country. Marquette's finance program is also ranked in the top 20 by USNR which is awesome, but unfortunately that doesn't mean jack either because of the elitist douches who control that industry. If you want to get an entry level finance job in NYC you have a much better chance if you go to an Ivy League or nationally ranked liberal arts college and majored in classics or philosophy. Sad but true. Marquette has made tremendous progress in this area though and high profile NYC Wall Street placements are on the rise among on recent MU grads, but they still face an incredibly uphill battle, not because they're any less intelligent or capable than recent grads from ivy league or other more prestigious schools, but because MU simply doesn't have the alumni network in NYC.
I'm generally in agreement with and sympathetic to most of MU Fan in NY's posts but I think I probably have more acceptance of Marquette's place in the higher education ladscape. Look Marquette is never going to be a Georgetown, ND, or BC and that's ok, but they do need to start acting more like a national university, instead of original one. When I was a student there more than a quarter century ago, career services was completely useless unless you were looking a job in Wisconsin or greater Chicago. I currently serve as a mentor for both the business school and communication school and from what my student protégés tell me, both of whom are from the northeastern United States by the way..... It hasn't changed much from when I was there. I think the administration is finally starting to recognize that which is why they're developing a long distance alumni mentor program, but it's still not enough.
At the end of the day recruiting undergraduates from a much more diverse area then they have historically will do far more to increase MU's national reputation in any superficial ranking like US news and world report.
It's got to start somewhere, Disco. I might have a Midwest mindset, but just throwing up your hands and saying, "Well, Marquette grads will never get anywhere because the PTB are douchebag elitists" is a defeatist mindset.
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It is inaccurate that 85% of the undergraduates are from 100 miles from campus. 70% of the students are from Wisconsin and Illinois according to its undergraduate profile.
And the response I have is...so what? I don't understand why Marquette has to have a more national profile than it does now. You can call it "provincial," but its not as though the midwest is some sort of backwater.
Why chase students down out east when Marquette can largely fill its class with quality students from the midwest? Why does Marquette have to be more than that? This is the problem I have with ratings and rankings in general. There is nothing wrong with developing a niche and excelling within the niche.
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It is inaccurate that 85% of the undergraduates are from 100 miles from campus. 70% of the students are from Wisconsin and Illinois according to its undergraduate profile.
And the response I have is...so what? I don't understand why Marquette has to have a more national profile than it does now. You can call it "provincial," but its not as though the midwest is some sort of backwater.
Why chase students down out east when Marquette can largely fill its class with quality students from the midwest? Why does Marquette have to be more than that? This is the problem I have with ratings and rankings in general. There is nothing wrong with developing a niche and excelling within the niche.
I agree. I'm much less concerned about where alumni are ending up and much more concerned with the what they are doing. Are MU alums getting into leading edge careers and/or positions of leadership.
Bring in smart kids, give them a great education and a stable network to fall back on, facilitate their getting out into the world and the rest will take care of itself. If we can put all of the success stories in front of parents and potential students that will speak much more effectively than landing on a ranking list some where south of 100 but north of 20.
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It is inaccurate that 85% of the undergraduates are from 100 miles from campus. 70% of the students are from Wisconsin and Illinois according to its undergraduate profile.
And the response I have is...so what? I don't understand why Marquette has to have a more national profile than it does now. You can call it "provincial," but its not as though the midwest is some sort of backwater.
Why chase students down out east when Marquette can largely fill its class with quality students from the midwest? Why does Marquette have to be more than that? This is the problem I have with ratings and rankings in general. There is nothing wrong with developing a niche and excelling within the niche.
It's something for MUFINY to brag about at cocktail parties. Admittedly, I was caught up in rankings when I started looking at schools. As I went through my search, other things became much more important. At the end of the day, Marquette helped open doors to me and helped me get to where I wanted to be. I can't ask for anything more than that.
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It is inaccurate that 85% of the undergraduates are from 100 miles from campus. 70% of the students are from Wisconsin and Illinois according to its undergraduate profile.
And the response I have is...so what? I don't understand why Marquette has to have a more national profile than it does now. You can call it "provincial," but its not as though the midwest is some sort of backwater.
Why chase students down out east when Marquette can largely fill its class with quality students from the midwest? Why does Marquette have to be more than that? This is the problem I have with ratings and rankings in general. There is nothing wrong with developing a niche and excelling within the niche.
Fair Enough. the claim that 85% of undergrads grew up within 100 miles of MKE may be a slight exaggeration but it's not that off. 70% from two states is still way too high and I don't think the hundred mile claim is that inaccurate because we all know that probably 85% of the Illinois residents come from metro Chicago which is within that radius.
I don't believe the Midwest is some back water nor am I suggesting that MU only recruit more students from the Northeast. I do think they should try to recruit more students from everywhere but Illinois and Wisconsin and the broader Midwest is the best place to start. If they get more from the northeast, south and West Coast that's a bonus. Everybody talks about how important diversity is but they only look at it in terms of racial and ethnic diversity. Geographic diversity is hugely important and would do that institution a great deal of good.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've served as an alumni mentor for MU business and comm school juniors for the last five years. i've always requested that I be paired up with a student from the metro NYC area or if that's not possible someone from Boston, Philadelphia or Washington DC which is close enough to New York where the student can come shadow me for a day, we can meet in person over breaks etc. I make that request each year not because I have anything against students from other parts of the country but because I just don't feel I can be as helpful to them because I have no network there. If a student is from Geen Bay or Kansas City and they understandably want to look for work in those places after graduation because that's where they're from I'm of no help to them whatsoever.
In any event I had a student a couple of years ago from the New York area, and she was considering the possibility of staying in MKE for the summer because so many of her friends were as well. She was applying for internships in both MKE and the New York area and asked if I had an opinion on whether she should live in MKE for a summer or find something closer to home in New York area. This was the summer between her junior and senior year. My advice to her was if she wanted to stay in the Midwest for a few years after graduation it would probably be better to find something in MKE but that if she was pretty sure she was going to move back home after graduation it would probably be better to find something in New York, but at the end of the day it's not going to make that much difference and she should accept the best opportunity that comes her way regardless of where the company is located, so it would be better to work for a namebrand company in MKE such as a Kohls or Miller or NML, then a lesser-known organization in the New York area. She then proceeded to tell me that she felt that made a lot of sense but that her advisor in the business school did everything he could to dissuade her from pursuing an internship in New York that summer, despite the fact that that's where she's from and that's where her family is, because New York is so hyper competitive and why would you want to pursue something there when you're competing with tons of other students from tons of other great schools whereas in Wisconsin students from Marquette and UW Madison of the cream of the crop, and that she probably would have much better luck in MKE, as if there are no other college students from Wisconsin that go to college in other parts of the country and come home in the summer to pursue internships at companies in WI. Again nothing against Wisconsin, but you simply can't compare it to New York even Chicago, where there are just flat out a lot more jobs and opportunities for recent college graduates.
When she told me this, I was so exasperated I wanted to drive to her parents house immediately and tell them I cannot believe they're paying almost 50K a year for this BS advice. Then I wanted to hop on the first plane to MKE, cab to Straz and strangle this advisor, because the message he's giving to students and staff is that they can't compete in NYC and that is absolute nonsense! Sure New York is competitive and there are a lot more recent college grads or undergrads pursuing internships there, but there are also a lot more welll known companies and opportunity there in general. I think a case can be made that the MKE market might very possibly be MORE competitive than NYC or Chicago for undergrads pursuing internships and recent grads pursuing entry level jobs at blue-chip companies there because there simply are far fewer of them in MKE. That is an undeniable fact. Again it's hard to make these claims without sounding like a big city elitist which I absolutely am not, and the advice I gave to this young woman I think proves that I'm not but when I learn if academic advisors telling students not to pursue opportunities in New York because they're not good enough, that makes my blood boil!
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we all know that probably 85% of the Illinois residents come from metro Chicago which is within that radius.
And what, exactly, is your source? It took exactly two clicks from Marquette's home page to find the actual numbers. Check out page 4. It's 35-40% from Illinois, and that includes all the areas outside of Chicago.
http://marquette.edu/oira/documents/f_fre_prof_web.pdf
In any event I had a student a couple of years ago from the New York area, and she was considering the possibility of staying in MKE for the summer because so many of her friends were as well. She was applying for internships in both MKE and the New York area and asked if I had an opinion on whether she should live in MKE for a summer or find something closer to home in New York area. This was the summer between her junior and senior year. My advice to her was if she wanted to stay in the Midwest for a few years after graduation it would probably be better to find something in MKE but that if she was pretty sure she was going to move back home after graduation it would probably be better to find something in New York, but at the end of the day it's not going to make that much difference and she should accept the best opportunity that comes her way regardless of where the company is located, so it would be better to work for a namebrand company in MKE such as a Kohls or Miller or NML, then a lesser-known organization in the New York area. She then proceeded to tell me that she felt that made a lot of sense but that her advisor in the business school did everything he could to dissuade her from pursuing an internship in New York that summer, despite the fact that that's where she's from and that's where her family is, because New York is so hyper competitive and why would you want to pursue something there when you're competing with tons of other students from tons of other great schools whereas in Wisconsin students from Marquette and UW Madison of the cream of the crop, and that she probably would have much better luck in MKE, as if there are no other college students from Wisconsin that go to college in other parts of the country and come home in the summer to pursue internships at companies in WI. Again nothing against Wisconsin, but you simply can't compare it to New York even Chicago, where there are just flat out a lot more jobs and opportunities for recent college graduates.
Two thousand new students enroll at Marquette every year, and you are going to make sweeping assumptions of Marquette's success at producing leaders based on (a) your contention that if you don't make it in New York, you will never be considered an important business leader and (b) your anecdotal experience with one student and one advisor is an accurate measure of leadership development at Marquette.
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Furthermore, having worked in higher education for a long time, I would really be careful about taking what an undergraduate says at face value. Maybe the advisor knew about the quality of the internship in Milwaukee, and was pushing it because it fit her career goals? Who knows? I just wouldn't make those assumptions.
And Marquette's placement rating is just fine. They get jobs in Milwaukee....Chicago...Twin Cities...New York... My guess is that a simple poll here would find that most alumni got jobs in their field and eventually migrated to where they wanted to live.
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Furthermore, having worked in higher education for a long time, I would really be careful about taking what an undergraduate says at face value.
Great point, Sultan. After being a member of the Marquette Parent Facebook page for many years, I have seen many a "my kid told me [a Marquette "fact"] that was total BS.
My most recent favorite: "My kid told me that there is no way to find out how you are doing in a particular class until final grades are posted". Hmmmm....
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Great point, Sultan. After being a member of the Marquette Parent Facebook page for many years, I have seen many a "my kid told me [a Marquette "fact"] that was total BS.
My most recent favorite: "My kid told me that there is no way to find out how you are doing in a particular class until final grades are posted". Hmmmm....
Translation: I don't want mom and dad to know how I'm doing in class.
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Translation: I don't want mom and dad to know how I'm doing in class.
Exaaaactly...
In the alternate: My "F" in Chem is just as much of a surprise to me as it is to you!
Two of my other favorites:
"I know I am supposed to do workstudy, but I have applied everywhere and there are absolutely NO jobs available on campus!'
Translation: I am unable to find a job that lets me sit at a desk and surf the internet.
"All the food in the dining halls is inedible and I am going to starve to death".
Translation: They don't cook whatever I want to eat whenever I want to eat it like you used to, Mom. Or: Just because I am a vegan, I shouldn't have to walk two blocks to the Healthy Living dining hall to get something other than a salad.
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Exaaaactly...
In the alternate: My "F" in Chem is just as much of a surprise to me as it is to you!
Two of my other favorites:
"I know I am supposed to do workstudy, but I have applied everywhere and there are absolutely NO jobs available on campus!'
Translation: I am unable to find a job that lets me sit at a desk and surf the internet.
"All the food in the dining halls is inedible and I am going to starve to death".
Translation: They don't cook whatever I want to eat whenever I want to eat it like you used to, Mom. Or: Just because I am a vegan, I shouldn't have to walk two blocks to the Healthy Living dining hall to get something other than a salad.
#Millenials
ammiright?
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#Millenials
ammiright?
Yessir.
We have 1,000 stories. It's truly mind numbing.
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#Millenials
ammiright?
No. This crap has always happened.
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It's waaaaay worse nowadays Sultan. Too many of these kids are literally helpless. And it's 100% their parents fault.
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No. This crap has always happened.
I know, I was trying to be a little funny (very little clearly ;D). Stupid stuff has always happened....feels like it's edging a little closer to the ridiculous of late.
Side story. I happened to be talking to a coworker in the hallway when some young professionals stopped nearby to chat and I overheard the following:
Millennial 1: So yeah we're meeting up with the sales team tonight in Buffalo Grove to discuss tomorrows meeting with the customer
Millennial 2: Oh cool, that will be good, let me know what gets decided so I can get prepared
Millennial 1: Are you doing anything tonight, why don't you come with? It would be good to have your input.
Millennial 2: I don't have anything tonight, but I was just telling Sarah that I'm feeling a little introverted today so I don't really want to meet with anyone.
Millennial 1: Ok, that's cool, I'll just text you what we come up with tonight.
If MU's strategic plan can mitigate some of that.....that would be great :)
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It's waaaaay worse nowadays Sultan. Too many of these kids are literally helpless. And it's 100% their parents fault.
Eh. I've been dealing with these guys for years and most of them are just fine.
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Eh. I've been dealing with these guys for years and most of them are just fine.
But the outliers are truly breathtaking.
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I know, I was trying to be a little funny (very little clearly ;D). Stupid stuff has always happened....feels like it's edging a little closer to the ridiculous of late.
Side story. I happened to be talking to a coworker in the hallway when some young professionals stopped nearby to chat and I overheard the following:
Millennial 1: So yeah we're meeting up with the sales team tonight in Buffalo Grove to discuss tomorrows meeting with the customer
Millennial 2: Oh cool, that will be good, let me know what gets decided so I can get prepared
Millennial 1: Are you doing anything tonight, why don't you come with? It would be good to have your input.
Millennial 2: I don't have anything tonight, but I was just telling Sarah that I'm feeling a little introverted today so I don't really want to meet with anyone.
Millennial 1: Ok, that's cool, I'll just text you what we come up with tonight.
If MU's strategic plan can mitigate some of that.....that would be great :)
You do understand Eng that many of us here consider you a 'young professional'. ;D
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But the outliers are truly breathtaking.
Heh...no doubt.
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But the outliers are truly breathtaking.
Just this week we had a mom post asking where her Junior son can go get a haircut. If a 21-year-old man can't figure that out for himself, we are doomed as a society.
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Just this week we had a mom post asking where her Junior son can go get a haircut. If a 21-year-old man can't figure that out for himself, we are doomed as a society.
My guess...he knows where to get a haircut. He just doesn't want to get one.
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My guess...he knows where to get a haircut. He just doesn't want to get one.
I suspect you're right. I am often as down on the millennials as some here (the terms "safe space" and "trigger" make me apoplectic), but I also think a large part of the blame is squarely on the parents. As Sultan points out the difference in the haircut example is with the parent, not the kid. "Back in the day" my mom would have told me, "just get your damn hair cut." Now, the mom posts online looking for advice. Parents who constantly baby their kids should not be surprised to learn that their kids are babies.
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I think we actually more potential bigwigs in the pipeline than we did a generation ago. We are enrolling smarter people and the education they are receiving is better. What we don't have, and what we need, is a Notre-Dame type PR network. Say what you will about Domers in other areas, but they certainly know how to take care of each other, and brag about their alma mater.
We need to instill the mindset in our alumni that if you are looking to hire, the first thing to do is to work your Marquette contacts. Put a post on the Marquette alumni LinkedIn site, attend Marquette functions, grow your MU network, lobby your HR department to include Marquette among its college visits for recent-grad jobs. At work, make a big deal about the fact that you are a Marquette graduate. Brag about their rankings in Real Estate and Supply Chain management. Tell your outside accounting firm, engineering consultant, etc., that they need to hire more Marquette grads. No outsiders are going to know how great a school Marquette is if their alums don't talk about it.
Please, please, please, everybody, do not do this. I beg all of you to refrain from doing this.
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Please, please, please, everybody, do not do this. I beg all of you to refrain from doing this.
The best thing you can do to benefit your school's reputation? Perform at a high level. (Doesn't hurt to have a Marquette sign in the cube to go along with that).
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I suspect you're right. I am often as down on the millennials as some here (the terms "safe space" and "trigger" make me apoplectic), but I also think a large part of the blame is squarely on the parents. As Sultan points out the difference in the haircut example is with the parent, not the kid. "Back in the day" my mom would have told me, "just get your damn hair cut." Now, the mom posts online looking for advice. Parents who constantly baby their kids should not be surprised to learn that their kids are babies.
Conversation at my house within the last six weeks about my 23 yo Son.
Wife: He needs a haircut
Me: He's an adult he can get a haircut when he wants.
A few minutes later after wife is texting away...
Me: What's going on?
Wife: I told him that if he gets a haircut, I'll pay for it.
::)
What can I do?
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Nothin' much is gonna change 'til da endowment increases big league, ai na?
pony up doc
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Please, please, please, everybody, do not do this. I beg all of you to refrain from doing this.
What's wrong with that?
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Conversation at my house within the last six weeks about my 23 yo Son.
Wife: He needs a haircut
Me: He's an adult he can get a haircut when he wants.
A few minutes later after wife is texting away...
Me: What's going on?
Wife: I told him that if he gets a haircut, I'll pay for it.
::)
What can I do?
Nip that in the bud, Sultan, or your kid is going to be living in your basement when he's 30 and your wife will still be cooking his meals and washing his clothes. ;D
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Conversation at my house within the last six weeks about my 23 yo Son.
Wife: He needs a haircut
Me: He's an adult he can get a haircut when he wants.
A few minutes later after wife is texting away...
Me: What's going on?
Wife: I told him that if he gets a haircut, I'll pay for it.
::)
What can I do?
I thought you were going to say that your wife posted on the Marquette Parents Facebook page to ask where to get a haircut on campus?
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Just this week we had a mom post asking where her Junior son can go get a haircut. If a 21-year-old man can't figure that out for himself, we are doomed as a society.
Who said its for his head, hey?
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It's waaaaay worse nowadays Sultan. Too many of these kids are literally helpless. And it's 100% their parents fault.
Kids are coddled by helicopter parents. Copter Coddle.
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It's waaaaay worse nowadays Sultan. Too many of these kids are literally helpless. And it's 100% their parents fault.
Mostly but I put some blame on teachers and employers.