http://finance.yahoo.com/news/study-refutes-notion-millennials-huge-000000703.html
Discuss.
The article has nothing to do about whether or not millenials are slackers. Its only about they tend to take less vacation than they are given. Just because someone doesn't use all of their vacation in a year, doesn't mean they aren't a slacker.
One question I have about the study is if they looked at previous data for similar generations after they entered the workforce. For example, when baby boomers just finished school and entered the workforce, did they not take as much vacation as they were given? It could potentially be more about individuals entering the workforce typically don't take as much vacation as they receive versus only this generation.
Full disclosure: I'm considered a millenial
Us older guys know that the younger generation are slackers. I mean, we rode the bus to school for 2 miles each way even when the temperature dipped below freezing.
Quote from: WarriorInNYC on August 21, 2016, 05:17:21 PM
The article has nothing to do about whether or not millenials are slackers. Its only about they tend to take less vacation than they are given. Just because someone doesn't use all of their vacation in a year, doesn't mean they aren't a slacker.
One question I have about the study is if they looked at previous data for similar generations after they entered the workforce. For example, when baby boomers just finished school and entered the workforce, did they not take as much vacation as they were given? It could potentially be more about individuals entering the workforce typically don't take as much vacation as they receive versus only this generation.
Full disclosure: I'm considered a millenial
Oh, I agree the study can be considered far less than perfect. Few of these kinds of things are.
I'm a big fan of not painting entire groups of people with a broad brush, so I like these studies nonetheless.
Quote from: MU82 on August 21, 2016, 09:49:13 PM
Oh, I agree the study can be considered far less than perfect. Few of these kinds of things are.
I'm a big fan of not painting entire groups of people with a broad brush, so I like these studies nonetheless.
As much as I rag on the millenials as a general group....I'm completely baffled how we can lump a group of people together who's oldest member graduated high school 2 years before the youngest member was born. Perhaps it made sense when societal and technology changes where slower but I just don't think it makes sense anymore.
My brother and I were born 5 years apart and are both considered millenials but his experience and mine are very different. He's only heard of 5 1/4 floppy disks whereas I had the joy of loading 12 of those things just so I could play Freddy's Rescue
Quote from: WarriorInNYC on August 21, 2016, 05:17:21 PM
The article has nothing to do about whether or not millenials are slackers. Its only about they tend to take less vacation than they are given. Just because someone doesn't use all of their vacation in a year, doesn't mean they aren't a slacker.
One question I have about the study is if they looked at previous data for similar generations after they entered the workforce. For example, when baby boomers just finished school and entered the workforce, did they not take as much vacation as they were given? It could potentially be more about individuals entering the workforce typically don't take as much vacation as they receive versus only this generation.
Full disclosure: I'm considered a millenial
In my day when you went on vacation you were really on vacation. No email, no texting, no cell phone, no tablet or laptop. Ah...the good old days.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 22, 2016, 08:27:51 AM
In my day when you went on vacation you were really on vacation. No email, no texting, no cell phone, no tablet or laptop. Ah...the good old days.
It's making a comeback....there is definitely starting to be a backlash to the 24hour work engagement in some segments of the corporate work environment.
Most people just entering the workforce take less PTO because they aren't married with kids. When I was just starting out in my career, as a 21-year-old single guy, my responsibilities were pretty limited, as were my resources. I wasn't going on any week-long vacations or taking a day off to get things done around the house or staying home with a sick kid, etc. I was going to work. I don't think that I'm an outlier in that arena either.
"Moreover, the survey found millennials to be the most likely to forfeit their vacation days, with 24% reporting they'd either forfeited days last year or weren't sure if they had, compared to 20% of generation x and 17% of boomers."
The bold, underlined portion was the most telling aspect of this article. If an employee is unaware as to whether or not they used up their PTO then it's not so much hard work and dedication as it is obliviousness and irresponsibility.
How many Millenials contributed to the study?
Many: Obviously it's biased because Millenials must be slackers.
Some: Obviously, they couldn't find enough Millenials who aren't slackers who could contribute.
None: Obviously, because no one wants a slacker working on their research study.
Therefore, the study itself (and not its contents) is unequivocal proof that Millenials are slackers.
#End of discussion.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 22, 2016, 08:33:55 AM
It's making a comeback....there is definitely starting to be a backlash to the 24hour work engagement in some segments of the corporate work environment.
Yep. Just look at the updates they made to FLSA. Starting December 1, TAMU is going to have to pay me overtime or comp time everytime I check my email after hours. Which is both wonderful and terrible at the same time
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 22, 2016, 11:02:18 AM
Yep. Just look at the updates they made to FLSA. Starting December 1, TAMU is going to have to pay me overtime or comp time everytime I check my email after hours. Which is both wonderful and terrible at the same time
Scoop all day; work after hours.
Money tree!
I never thought "slackers" was the proper description. Usually it's "entitled". Sure, they work hard. They just expect it to result in a promotion within a year and a throne in two.
Quote from: chapman on August 24, 2016, 07:44:44 AM
I never thought "slackers" was the proper description. Usually it's "entitled". Sure, they work hard. They just expect it to result in a promotion within a year and a throne in two.
One of my least favorite trends is telling kids they can grow up to be whatever they want to be. Sorry, but if you're not 6'10" and athletic you won't be the starting center for the Celtics, if you aren't attractive you won't be a model, if you aren't smart you won't be a doctor, and no matter how smart, athletic, and attractive you may be, there's a 99.99% chance you'll never be famous.
It's okay, the world needs ditch diggers too.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 24, 2016, 09:57:40 AM
One of my least favorite trends is telling kids they can grow up to be whatever they want to be. Sorry, but if you're not 6'10" and athletic you won't be the starting center for the Celtics, if you aren't attractive you won't be a model, if you aren't smart you won't be a doctor, and no matter how smart, athletic, and attractive you may be, there's a 99.99% chance you'll never be famous.
It's okay, the world needs ditch diggers too.
Agreed, there is a huge difference between "put in all your effort and maybe you'll accomplish your dreams" and "all you have to do is try and all your dreams come true". We've moved in a direction as a society where we've seemingly divorced potential negative outcomes from reality.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 24, 2016, 10:08:29 AM
Agreed, there is a huge difference between "put in all your effort and maybe you'll accomplish your dreams" and "all you have to do is try and all your dreams come true". We've moved in a direction as a society where we've seemingly divorced potential negative outcomes from reality.
Well stated. I think one of the biggest issues people have with this generation is the inability to handle setbacks and criticism. The truth is sometimes life sucks. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes other people don't like you. And sometimes the work you do is inadequate. None of those are fatal flaws if you learn from them. But if you just internalize them and can't handle life's setbacks...I mean, you'll just never make it in this world.
I'm a Boomer and we were just as obnoxious and hard to deal with in the 1970s and 1980s as the Millennials are today. We had our Marquette degrees. We were full of promise. We could do no wrong. Just ask us.
If our Managers were still alive and have clear memories, they would probably talk about those young obnoxious Boomers as well. About how experience trumps book learning and about how something that happened in 1963 had relevance in 1979.
From a Boomer and manager perspective, the difference between Millennial and Boomer was when the Boomers were told to do something, we did it. Perhaps begrudgingly, but we did it. Too often, the Millennial thinks he or she should not have to do something "not in my career plan," and is openly insubordinate. I have more than once asked a Millennial if unemployment also was in their career plan, a comment that usually got what I wanted when I wanted it.
Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2016, 10:52:31 PM
I'm a Boomer and we were just as obnoxious and hard to deal with in the 1970s and 1980s as the Millennials are today. We had our Marquette degrees. We were full of promise. We could do no wrong. Just ask us.
If our Managers were still alive and have clear memories, they would probably talk about those young obnoxious Boomers as well. About how experience trumps book learning and about how something that happened in 1963 had relevance in 1979.
From a Boomer and manager perspective, the difference between Millennial and Boomer was when the Boomers were told to do something, we did it. Perhaps begrudgingly, but we did it. Too often, the Millennial thinks he or she should not have to do something "not in my career plan," and is openly insubordinate. I have more than once asked a Millennial if unemployment also was in their career plan, a comment that usually got what I wanted when I wanted it.
Very interesting comment, lots of food for thought here.
Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2016, 10:52:31 PM
I'm a Boomer and we were just as obnoxious and hard to deal with in the 1970s and 1980s as the Millennials are today. We had our Marquette degrees. We were full of promise. We could do no wrong. Just ask us.
If our Managers were still alive and have clear memories, they would probably talk about those young obnoxious Boomers as well. About how experience trumps book learning and about how something that happened in 1963 had relevance in 1979.
From a Boomer and manager perspective, the difference between Millennial and Boomer was when the Boomers were told to do something, we did it. Perhaps begrudgingly, but we did it. Too often, the Millennial thinks he or she should not have to do something "not in my career plan," and is openly insubordinate. I have more than once asked a Millennial if unemployment also was in their career plan, a comment that usually got what I wanted when I wanted it.
Totally fair and likely how every up and coming generation is seen. The more things change, and all that...
Quote from: dgies9156 on August 24, 2016, 10:52:31 PM
I'm a Boomer and we were just as obnoxious and hard to deal with in the 1970s and 1980s as the Millennials are today. We had our Marquette degrees. We were full of promise. We could do no wrong. Just ask us.
If our Managers were still alive and have clear memories, they would probably talk about those young obnoxious Boomers as well. About how experience trumps book learning and about how something that happened in 1963 had relevance in 1979.
From a Boomer and manager perspective, the difference between Millennial and Boomer was when the Boomers were told to do something, we did it. Perhaps begrudgingly, but we did it. Too often, the Millennial thinks he or she should not have to do something "not in my career plan," and is openly insubordinate. I have more than once asked a Millennial if unemployment also was in their career plan, a comment that usually got what I wanted when I wanted it.
Excellent post. "Old people" have always had issues with "young people" in the work place and they always will.
From my experiences with Millenials, I've found that they're very hard workers...when it's something they want to do and/or something with good exposure. The general get-your-feet-wet, entry-level work? Not so much. In fact, a couple weeks ago I had a recent college grad in my dept who was doing a tedious monthly report. He's a very bright capable employee but he put in a half-hearted effort on this task and when I spoke with him about it, he actually said, "Can't we find someone else to do this?" I responded, "We did. You."
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on August 25, 2016, 10:26:11 AM
Excellent post. "Old people" have always had issues with "young people" in the work place and they always will.
From my experiences with Millenials, I've found that they're very hard workers...when it's something they want to do and/or something with good exposure. The general get-your-feet-wet, entry-level work? Not so much.
Thank you for your kind words.
I thought back about your comment as well and reflected on when I was young and confident. I thought was the smartest guy in the room. I worked for a newspaper and, candidly, given the leadership of the paper at the time, may have been one of the smartest in the room (we had a photographer who since became a PhD in Economics and led the grad business program at the University of Alaska). But as Sheldon Cooper's Mom on
Big Bang Theory once said, "I told you don't go around telling' everybody."
We had obituaries that had to be written. Stringer copy from the boondocks counties had to be edited and, sometimes, someone even had to take dictation from these verbose correspondents. Someone had to go to watch and report on farmers judging hogs, steers, cows and even lambs. Try writing about obese pumpkins or some grizzled old woman who turned 90 last week. And, someone had to interview Alice in Dairyland at one newspaper that once employed me (trust me -- Alice generally was no catch, she was someone who "enjoyed" dairy products A LOT).
Four years of college? Summer internships? Lots of money? FOR THIS??? You have got to be kidding?
I'll bet Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein never watched Farmer Higgenbotthem judge championship hogs!
Yes, your friendly neighborhood Boomer had to do that and a lot more crap. And gawd, we complained. The more we complained, the more obits we wrote! These Millennials were pikers in the complaint, whining and entitlement department compared to us! And we had manual typewriters on which to work. At least these Millennials have computers... for heaven's sake.
Anyway, someone had to write the obituaries
ill preface this with the fact that I have zero facts to back this claim up. I do think part of the problem may be the millennials such as myself often get higher level degrees before we start working, more so than the previous generation, whether that be a masters, PhD, or if they take their CPA exam or get a MBA.
I think there is a certain expectation when you go to college for 5+ years because advance degrees are almost necessary now, and with that much schooling there is that expectation that young professionals shouldn't be doing all the grunt work.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 26, 2016, 11:12:16 AM
ill preface this with the fact that I have zero facts to back this claim up. I do think part of the problem may be the millennials such as myself often get higher level degrees before we start working, more so than the previous generation, whether that be a masters, PhD, or if they take their CPA exam or get a MBA.
I think there is a certain expectation when you go to college for 5+ years because advance degrees are almost necessary now, and with that much schooling there is that expectation that young professionals shouldn't be doing all the grunt work.
Recent Grad: I have a Master's degree.
Hiring manager: (https://media.giphy.com/media/i4Mgat1S2f3Co/giphy.gif)
There's likely a lot of truth in your theory...but it doesn't change the fact that entry-level employees, even those with a Master's degree, still have to do entry-level work. I have an MBA but my boss doesn't. What he does have is 20+ more years of experience than I do.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 26, 2016, 11:12:16 AM
I think there is a certain expectation when you go to college for 5+ years because advance degrees are almost necessary now, and with that much schooling there is that expectation that young professionals shouldn't be doing all the grunt work.
This is the biggest mistaken assumption/expectation of those that choose to go straight through into grad school instead of working first.
An MBA with 5 years experience versus an MBA with 0 years experience are not even close to being the same thing. The only one's who don't seem to get that are the latter (this isnt new with Millennials in my opinion).
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on August 26, 2016, 11:52:56 AM
This is the biggest mistaken assumption/expectation of those that choose to go straight through into grad school instead of working first.
An MBA with 5 years experience versus an MBA with 0 years experience are not even close to being the same thing. The only one's who don't seem to get that are the latter (this isnt new with Millennials in my opinion).
This is 100% correct. Having a grad degree with very limited to no experience is almost worth less than no grad degree and no experience....I get practically the same capability without all the expectation and cost.
I don't think it's unique to millenials, but new generations seem to always assume experience doesn't matter for them that somehow theoretical learning has caught up with practical experience or even that the older generations weren't educated enough to get it right and they know better.
One other thing, a graduate degree directly after undergrad with no experience is a pretty big waste. Without a direct experience in the real world, I don't think you can properly ground/put into context what you are learning in grad school....especially an MBA. 50% of the MBA is about networking anyway, maybe 20% of what I learned in the MBA were things I hadn't already been exposed to in the first 8 years of my career(and I started as an engineer).
Quote from: dgies9156 on August 26, 2016, 06:04:31 AM
Thank you for your kind words.
I thought back about your comment as well and reflected on when I was young and confident. I thought was the smartest guy in the room. I worked for a newspaper and, candidly, given the leadership of the paper at the time, may have been one of the smartest in the room (we had a photographer who since became a PhD in Economics and led the grad business program at the University of Alaska). But as Sheldon Cooper's Mom on Big Bang Theory once said, "I told you don't go around telling' everybody."
We had obituaries that had to be written. Stringer copy from the boondocks counties had to be edited and, sometimes, someone even had to take dictation from these verbose correspondents. Someone had to go to watch and report on farmers judging hogs, steers, cows and even lambs. Try writing about obese pumpkins or some grizzled old woman who turned 90 last week. And, someone had to interview Alice in Dairyland at one newspaper that once employed me (trust me -- Alice generally was no catch, she was someone who "enjoyed" dairy products A LOT).
Four years of college? Summer internships? Lots of money? FOR THIS??? You have got to be kidding?
I'll bet Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein never watched Farmer Higgenbotthem judge championship hogs!
Yes, your friendly neighborhood Boomer had to do that and a lot more crap. And gawd, we complained. The more we complained, the more obits we wrote! These Millennials were pikers in the complaint, whining and entitlement department compared to us! And we had manual typewriters on which to work. At least these Millennials have computers... for heaven's sake.
Anyway, someone had to write the obituaries
I had the exact same experience early in my journalism career. Obits, county board meetings, low-level trials, feature stories that nobody gave a crap about. I thought I should be "above that" because I was (in my mind) a rising star who had won awards at Marquette. I learned to just say, "Yessir," and do what they told me to do. Eventually, I paid my dues.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 26, 2016, 11:12:16 AM
ill preface this with the fact that I have zero facts to back this claim up. I do think part of the problem may be the millennials such as myself often get higher level degrees before we start working, more so than the previous generation, whether that be a masters, PhD, or if they take their CPA exam or get a MBA.
I think there is a certain expectation when you go to college for 5+ years because advance degrees are almost necessary now, and with that much schooling there is that expectation that young professionals shouldn't be doing all the grunt work.
This reminds me of my wife's job. All these young kids come in and think they should get the prime shifts, the prime departments, and be exempt from the grunt work because they just got their degrees. Never mind that everyone else in the department has the same degree and about 20-30 years more experience.
My wife recently went back to school and earned her bachelors at age 37. She had been underpaid for years because despite doing the same exact job (seriously, same exact job to the letter) as people with their bachelors, she was paid about $8-10 less than people with similar experience because of her associates. Thankfully, after earning her bachelors, her employer rewarded her by not only getting her on the bachelors pay scale, but bumping her up a bit on the pay scale to reflect her 10 years of experience. I'm sure her 20-something co-workers would be offended to know she makes more than they do, but it's the same degree and she had a decade of experience on them. In pretty much any line of work, your experience is worth at least as much, if not more, than the piece of paper you went to school for.
Because at the end of the day, a piece of paper is all it is.
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/20/baby_boomers_ruined_america_why_blaming_millennials_is_misguided_and_annoying/
Discuss.
http://uproxx.com/webculture/best-of-howtoconfuseamillennial-tweets/
Further discussion. And make sure you read the first 4 paragraphs a couples times.
Quote from: jesmu84 on September 06, 2016, 06:42:39 PM
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/20/baby_boomers_ruined_america_why_blaming_millennials_is_misguided_and_annoying/
Discuss.
America is, in no way, "ruined." Therefore meaningless on either "side."
Discuss.
Quote from: jesmu84 on September 06, 2016, 06:44:24 PM
http://uproxx.com/webculture/best-of-howtoconfuseamillennial-tweets/
Further discussion. And make sure you read the first 4 paragraphs a couples times.
My favorite is "complain how everyone gets a trophy while sipping from your worlds greatest dad mug"
And people wonder why Xers hate everyone as they just do the heavy lifting.
I love anything that makes all those from one group - Boomers or Gen Xers or Millennials or "the black community" or "the LBGT community" or "white college-educated males" or Jews or whatever - one lumped-together entity.
Because, you know, ALL Boomers think alike. And all gays think alike. And so on.
Really helps advance the human experience.
Quote from: MU82 on September 06, 2016, 10:35:07 PM
I love anything that makes all those from one group - Boomers or Gen Xers or Millennials or "the black community" or "the LBGT community" or "white college-educated males" or Jews or whatever - one lumped-together entity.
Because, you know, ALL Boomers think alike. And all gays think alike. And so on.
Really helps advance the human experience.
No... not all Boomers think alike... but every one of them ruined (or will ruin) the country.
Quote from: MU82 on September 06, 2016, 10:35:07 PM
I love anything that makes all those from one group - Boomers or Gen Xers or Millennials or "the black community" or "the LBGT community" or "white college-educated males" or Jews or whatever - one lumped-together entity.
Because, you know, ALL Boomers think alike. And all gays think alike. And so on.
Really helps advance the human experience.
Agree with you conceptually, but group behavior is a thing. You can't take a generalization about a group and apply it at the individual level, but recognizing there are generalizations about groups helps inform discussion when talking about policy positions.
Quote from: mu03eng on September 07, 2016, 08:29:36 AM
You can't take a generalization about a group and apply it at the individual level, but recognizing there are generalizations about groups helps inform discussion when talking about policy positions.
Even if I give you the latter, the former is far too prevalent and quite often ruins the conversation on the latter.
Quote from: MU82 on September 07, 2016, 10:17:01 AM
Even if I give you the latter, the former is far too prevalent and quite often ruins the conversation on the latter.
pish posh.....the reason generalization ruins a conversation is because we misconstrue/misuse the concept. What I'm trying to say is that the concept of generalization is not bad and is in fact useful but because we misuse and/or are oversensitive to it's use it ruins conversations.
Put simpler, the problem isn't the concept its humans.
Related, there was a fascinating book on big data and how it is "inherently biased". I think the author is a bit sensational, but the discussion is a very valid one. Without context, generalization, big data, etc can be very destructive....but as a society we are eliminating the ability to provide the context which exacerbates the issue.
article:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/06/technology/weapons-of-math-destruction/index.html (http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/06/technology/weapons-of-math-destruction/index.html)
book:
https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-Inequality/dp/0553418815 (https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-Inequality/dp/0553418815)
Side note: the author/blogger/data person referenced in the article is very good, but again I think overhyping to prove a point....again context is important. ;D
Quote from: MU82 on September 07, 2016, 10:17:01 AM
Even if I give you the latter, the former is far too prevalent and quite often ruins the conversation on the latter.
So is it OK to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
Quote from: Benny B on September 07, 2016, 11:01:24 AM
So is it OK to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
Depends upon which baby.
Oh, and let me add that I hate wasting perfectly good bathwater.
Quote from: mu03eng on September 07, 2016, 10:30:58 AM
Put simpler, the problem isn't the concept its humans.
It usually is.
The classifications of generations is a bit odd. First, time frames are picked arbitrarily. Secondly, there is not even a consensus of when one generation ends and another one begins.
For example, I did some quick Google searches for "range of Generation X" but found two sources with different birth years:
Source 1) 1960 to 1980 (with Millenials born from 1980-2000)
Source 2) 1965 to 1984
I was born in 1980; Source 1 could characterize me as either Gen X or a Millenial. Source 2 would squarely put me in Gen X.
My wife was born in 1982. Source 1 would call her a Millenial but Source 2 would put her clearly in Gen X!
Here's another exercise: Let's say Source 1 labels me Gen X. Then I would be catagorized with a "generation" that includes people born twenty years earlier in 1960. But my life experience is much more similar to that of my wife who was born two years later; but we'd be different generations!
Let's look at Source 2. Now my wife are both Gen X. But our "generation" includes people born in 1965 while not including people born in 1985. We'd have much more in common with people born in 1985 than people born in 1965! See how absurd this classification system is?
Now, on a micro-level within a family tree you can observe generational change much easier. From grandparents, to parents, to siblings, to children, to grandchildren, etc. But even this starts to break down at some point. My cousins and I would be considered as part of the same familial generation. But my mom's family was fairly large so there is a huge age range for my cousins. The life experience of my cousins over 40 are quite a bit different than the experience of my cousins under 25.
For example, I am 35 and the first one in my mom's family tree to earn a 4 year college degree. At least 5 of my younger cousins have since graduated from college. My 40 year old brother has also since gone back to school and earned a bachelor's degree but that's it for the older cousins on my mom's side.
So looking at my family tree you can see a shift in college education in time. The key turning date is my birth year: 1980. But looking at the population of a country at a whole, how do you pick that key year? Even if you do pick 1980 to be the key year, why not move the arbitrary line one way or the other: 1979 or 1981? Why not 1978? Why not 1982?
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on September 07, 2016, 03:09:29 PM
The classifications of generations is a bit odd. First, time frames are picked arbitrarily. Secondly, there is not even a consensus of when one generation ends and another one begins.
For example, I did some quick Google searches for "range of Generation X" but found two sources with different birth years:
Source 1) 1960 to 1980 (with Millenials born from 1980-2000)
Source 2) 1965 to 1984
I was born in 1980; Source 1 could characterize me as either Gen X or a Millenial. Source 2 would squarely put me in Gen X.
My wife was born in 1982. Source 1 would call her a Millenial but Source 2 would put her clearly in Gen X!
Here's another exercise: Let's say Source 1 labels me Gen X. Then I would be catagorized with a "generation" that includes people born twenty years earlier in 1960. But my life experience is much more similar to that of my wife who was born two years later; but we'd be different generations!
Let's look at Source 2. Now my wife are both Gen X. But our "generation" includes people born in 1965 while not including people born in 1985. We'd have much more in common with people born in 1985 than people born in 1965! See how absurd this classification system is?
Now, on a micro-level within a family tree you can observe generational change much easier. From grandparents, to parents, to siblings, to children, to grandchildren, etc. But even this starts to break down at some point. My cousins and I would be considered as part of the same familial generation. But my mom's family was fairly large so there is a huge age range for my cousins. The life experience of my cousins over 40 are quite a bit different than the experience of my cousins under 25.
For example, I am 35 and the first one in my mom's family tree to earn a 4 year college degree. At least 5 of my younger cousins have since graduated from college. My 40 year old brother has also since gone back to school and earned a bachelor's degree but that's it for the older cousins on my mom's side.
So looking at my family tree you can see a shift in college education in time. The key turning date is my birth year: 1980. But looking at the population of a country at a whole, how do you pick that key year? Even if you do pick 1980 to be the key year, why not move the arbitrary line one way or the other: 1979 or 1981? Why not 1978? Why not 1982?
Again you are taking generalizations and applying them to individuals which is a misapplication of statistics and generalization. Some generalizations will apply to you individually, some will not, but that's not the point of them.
An example of a relevant application of generalizations: Millenials will adopt technology more rapidly than will Boomers or Gen Xers......
Good application: if I have a new product I'm targeting for 18-40 years olds, the amount of effort I apply toward product adoption is lower, if I'm targeting 40-90 year olds, I might want increase my investment in adoption documentation.
Bad application: You're 35 years old so you don't need all these manuals because you'll adapt and learn it pretty quick.
Tried to use an example that was apolitical for discussion, non-thread locking purposes, as MU82 pointed out the political and cultural misuse is rampant.
Quote from: mu03eng on September 07, 2016, 03:31:48 PM
Again you are taking generalizations and applying them to individuals which is a misapplication of statistics and generalization. Some generalizations will apply to you individually, some will not, but that's not the point of them.
An example of a relevant application of generalizations: Millenials will adopt technology more rapidly than will Boomers or Gen Xers......
Good application: if I have a new product I'm targeting for 18-40 years olds, the amount of effort I apply toward product adoption is lower, if I'm targeting 40-90 year olds, I might want increase my investment in adoption documentation.
Bad application: You're 35 years old so you don't need all these manuals because you'll adapt and learn it pretty quick.
Tried to use an example that was apolitical for discussion, non-thread locking purposes, as MU82 pointed out the political and cultural misuse is rampant.
I think you missed my point. I am fully aware of the useful of applied statistics. We used them all the time when I worked in local news. There were overall ratings and demographic ratings. Our station would look at several different "key" demos: sometimes we'd look at ages 18-54, then within that 25-49, then within that 25-49 females, etc., etc. We ultimately tried to tailor our newscasts to females ages 25-49 because research showed that was most likely to be the wives and moms that controlled the families purse strings.
My point was that saying where one generation begins and another one ends is arbitrary. I think of myself neither as Gen X nor Gen Y. I guess the businesses and and social scientists can pick an arbitrary date and call whatever they want.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on September 07, 2016, 04:21:39 PM
I think of myself neither as Gen X nor Gen Y.
You can think of yourself however you want.
The rest of us think you're a slacker!
(See how slick I was in circling back to the OP?)
Quote from: MU82 on September 07, 2016, 05:09:41 PM
You can think of yourself however you want.
The rest of us think you're a slacker!
(See how slick I was in circling back to the OP?)
I'm a stay at home dad, so I
know I'm a slacker.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on September 07, 2016, 04:21:39 PM
I think you missed my point. I am fully aware of the useful of applied statistics. We used them all the time when I worked in local news. There were overall ratings and demographic ratings. Our station would look at several different "key" demos: sometimes we'd look at ages 18-54, then within that 25-49, then within that 25-49 females, etc., etc. We ultimately tried to tailor our newscasts to females ages 25-49 because research showed that was most likely to be the wives and moms that controlled the families purse strings.
My point was that saying where one generation begins and another one ends is arbitrary. I think of myself neither as Gen X nor Gen Y. I guess the businesses and and social scientists can pick an arbitrary date and call whatever they want.
Right, and statistics are arbitrary. You create a boundary condition and see what the results are. Statistically speaking there's been analysis that the generalities work best for the birth year groupings defined. Your applying the boundary conditions to you as an individual, so it won't work.
I don't mean to be a wonk on this stuff but I get frustrated when we throw the baby out because we don't know the purpose of the bathwater.
Quote from: mu03eng on September 07, 2016, 08:09:29 PM
Right, and statistics are arbitrary. You create a boundary condition and see what the results are. Statistically speaking there's been analysis that the generalities work best for the birth year groupings defined. Your applying the boundary conditions to you as an individual, so it won't work.
I only used myself as an example because I thought a real world example would be more effective than a hypothetical. Never meant to imply what you are inferring, though in hindsight I can see why.
Anyhow, I'm not communicating my point clearly and effectively so I'm stopping now.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on September 08, 2016, 06:32:07 AM
I only used myself as an example because I thought a real world example would be more effective than a hypothetical. Never meant to imply what you are inferring, though in hindsight I can see why.
Anyhow, I'm not communicating my point clearly and effectively so I'm stopping now.
Not my intent, please continue and I will make sure to be less obtuse.