Boy! These things appear from as far away as Wisconsin as ho-hum, just another fire, but if you lived near or around these events every year, it has to be very worrisome to say the least. People are having to evacuate and in many cases lose their homes, etc. these events occur on an annual basis and look to be nearly as catastrophic as any other destructive event we have, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods... Makes one wonder why more isn't done to prevent these a little more, short of an arsonist starting one. But further away from the "action" they don't seem as threatening...not in my backyard, eyn'a?
http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents
As opposed to what is going on in Louisiana, these are mostly preventable. Like so many things, it requires community awareness, a community effort, and for people to think beyond themselves. But they are going on now, so patience, assistance, and prayers are a good idea.
From a firefighting perspective, those smoke jumpers are a different level of crazy.
Quote from: tower912 on August 17, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
As opposed to what is going on in Louisiana, these are mostly preventable. Like so many things, it requires community awareness, a community effort, and for people to think beyond themselves. But they are going on now, so patience, assistance, and prayers are a good idea.
From a firefighting perspective, those smoke jumpers are a different level of crazy.
What kind of crazy are the scientists climbing down into volcanoes?
Super cool crazy.
Quote from: tower912 on August 17, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
From a firefighting perspective, those smoke jumpers are a different level of crazy.
This makes a lot of sense... I've told my wife that if she ever wants to move out west, the only way I'm going is if I can sign up for a seasonal job with the Forest Service jumping out of planes.
>90% of the fires I fight are in a 1-2 story house. Hydrants every 400-500 feet. With a large group of highly trained professionals in close proximity. If I venture in before help arrives because there is a possibility of performing a rescue, I have a clock in my head telling me when my help is going to arrive.
These guys jump out of planes to fight fires for days with sticks and shovels and use tin foil for protection. Essentially for minimum wage. They win.
Tower (and Brew), thank you for your service.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 17, 2016, 11:19:17 AM
Tower (and Brew), thank you for your service.
Dittos to that! You guys and our police don't get near the credit ya deserve. Serving on our domestic front lines-you da men!!
Speaking of fires in the golden state, hoping the bail bondsman ain't blowin smoke, Ein'er?
First of all, forest fires are a natural part of nature. But we definitely are making things worse.
1. Global warming and increased drought have a big effect.
2. Environmentalists - of which I am one - are not helping things either. The more we fight to keep all of the forested lands pristine, the more kindling there is laying on the floor of these forests to increase both the probability and intensity of the fires.
But mostly, this is just normal. It has become more of a problem as we encroach on the forests more and more with our homes. So, instead of just being a forest fire, now they are human disasters.
Quote from: brandx on August 21, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
First of all, forest fires are a natural part of nature. But we definitely are making things worse.
1. Global warming and increased drought have a big effect.
2. Environmentalists - of which I am one - are not helping things either. The more we fight to keep all of the forested lands pristine, the more kindling there is laying on the floor of these forests to increase both the probability and intensity of the fires.
But mostly, this is just normal. It has become more of a problem as we encroach on the forests more and more with our homes. So, instead of just being a forest fire, now they are human disasters.
Brandx, I was under the impression that it is our actions making things less pristine (e.g. stopping all fires) was the cause of making things worse. Essentially that we do not understand what pristine means.
Nature had small local fires that took out shrubbery, grass and small trees, leaving large trees alone that could survive the fire. When we started to avoid all fires, we made things less pristine and provided tons of unnatural tinder for a huge unnatural fires, leading to the problems we have today.
Fires are natural, we for decades should let the small ones go, but we are too afraid they will grow.
Quote from: tower912 on August 17, 2016, 09:12:24 AM
As opposed to what is going on in Louisiana, these are mostly preventable. Like so many things, it requires community awareness, a community effort, and for people to think beyond themselves. But they are going on now, so patience, assistance, and prayers are a good idea.
From a firefighting perspective, those smoke jumpers are a different level of crazy.
My few times I went to California I was just amazed how many multi- million dollar homes were built on hillsides. I am sure the view is beautiful, but these homes have a triple threat not only to fire, but mud slides and not to mention earthquakes. I can't imagine what homeowners insurance costs are for these dwellings.
Quote from: tower912 on August 17, 2016, 10:53:39 AM
>90% of the fires I fight are in a 1-2 story house. Hydrants every 400-500 feet. With a large group of highly trained professionals in close proximity. If I venture in before help arrives because there is a possibility of performing a rescue, I have a clock in my head telling me when my help is going to arrive.
These guys jump out of planes to fight fires for days with sticks and shovels and use tin foil for protection. Essentially for minimum wage. They win.
My dad flew special operations in the air force (low level night penetration type stuff) and they'd routinely drop Seals, Green Berets, etc. When we were living out in California, the fire service needed some extra drop capacity for a bigger fire and so the air force loaned out my dad's crew to drop about a dozen of these guys along a precise route. Anyway, he and the load master got to talking with these guys and my dad said they were the craziest, coolest guys he'd met and he wished he loved anything the way those guys love their job.
Quote from: brandx on August 21, 2016, 05:27:30 PM
But mostly, this is just normal. It has become more of a problem as we encroach on the forests more and more with our homes. So, instead of just being a forest fire, now they are human disasters.
People build homes in forests... this is not new. The new part is people building homes in forests that are susceptible to fire and then complaining that they didn't know any better.
Quote from: Benny B on August 22, 2016, 10:20:56 AM
People build homes in forests... this is not new. The new part is people building homes in forests that are susceptible to fire and then complaining that they didn't know any better.
There was a good book(if you're really into anthropology) called 1492. The concept was to try and articulate what the Americas looked like just prior to Columbus showing up and f*@king everything up. One of the chapters focused on climate and ecosystem at the time.....there is tremendous evidence that the native inhabitants were significant forest managers. The wild, untamed nature of America only occurred years latter when all the forest managers had been killed by European disease and assaults. In our efforts to be more "natural" in the last 20 years the environmentalist went back to the untamed nature concept which has resulted (in conjunction with drought conditions) with considerably more forest fires, especially of the out of control variety.
And idiots move closer to areas when this sort of risk is higher....so you know.....Darwin.
Quote from: forgetful on August 21, 2016, 08:59:57 PM
Brandx, I was under the impression that it is our actions making things less pristine (e.g. stopping all fires) was the cause of making things worse. Essentially that we do not understand what pristine means.
Nature had small local fires that took out shrubbery, grass and small trees, leaving large trees alone that could survive the fire. When we started to avoid all fires, we made things less pristine and provided tons of unnatural tinder for a huge unnatural fires, leading to the problems we have today.
Fires are natural, we for decades should let the small ones go, but we are too afraid they will grow.
We are saying the exact same thing. My use of the word "pristine" was meant to mean "natural" as in no management at all - i.e. leaving the kindling lay so the forest would seem pristine.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 22, 2016, 10:39:25 AM
There was a good book(if you're really into anthropology) called 1492. The concept was to try and articulate what the Americas looked like just prior to Columbus showing up and f*@king everything up. One of the chapters focused on climate and ecosystem at the time.....there is tremendous evidence that the native inhabitants were significant forest managers. The wild, untamed nature of America only occurred years latter when all the forest managers had been killed by European disease and assaults. In our efforts to be more "natural" in the last 20 years the environmentalist went back to the untamed nature concept which has resulted (in conjunction with drought conditions) with considerably more forest fires, especially of the out of control variety.
And idiots move closer to areas when this sort of risk is higher....so you know.....Darwin.
It's
1491 and it's sequel is the post-Columbian word changes titled
1493.
I thoroughly enjoyed both books.
From the book, apparently, the Native-Americans burned so much one could easily take a wagon from the coast to the Appalachians because it was so open from all the burning. It also helps create the recent theory of reverse-global warming that when all the Native-American forest managers had been killed by European disease, a mini-ice age occurred due to rapid widespread forest growth that sucked massive amounts of CO2 from the air.
Quote from: brandx on August 22, 2016, 10:45:21 AM
We are saying the exact same thing. My use of the word "pristine" was meant to mean "natural" as in no management at all - i.e. leaving the kindling lay so the forest would seem pristine.
I thought that may be the case, wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something as it hasn't been something I've followed up on a lot lately.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 22, 2016, 12:54:25 PM
It's 1491 and it's sequel is the post-Columbian word changes titled 1493.
I thoroughly enjoyed both books.
From the book, apparently, the Native-Americans burned so much one could easily take a wagon from the coast to the Appalachians because it was so open from all the burning. It also helps create the recent theory of reverse-global warming that when all the Native-American forest managers had been killed by European disease, a mini-ice age occurred due to rapid widespread forest growth that sucked massive amounts of CO2 from the air.
You are correct, typo on my part.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on August 22, 2016, 12:54:25 PM
From the book, apparently, the Native-Americans burned so much one could easily take a wagon from the coast to the Appalachians because it was so open from all the burning. It also helps create the recent theory of reverse-global warming that when all the Native-American forest managers had been killed by European disease, a mini-ice age occurred due to rapid widespread forest growth that sucked massive amounts of CO2 from the air.
Hmmm.... so could burning down the state of California be the answer to global warming?
Quote from: Benny B on August 22, 2016, 02:01:49 PM
Hmmm.... so could burning down the state of California be the answer to global warming?
Yes please
Quote from: Benny B on August 22, 2016, 02:01:49 PM
Hmmm.... so could burning down the state of California be the answer to global warming?
I'd prefer Texas.
And, since they are always talking about secession anyway.... seems like no loss.
Quote from: brandx on August 22, 2016, 02:16:22 PM
I'd prefer Texas.
And, since they are always talking about secession anyway.... seems like no loss.
The natural geography of Texas is open plains. Whatever native grasses that regrow won't provide anything near to the CO2 vacuum that would be offered by the natural reforestation of the Peninsular and Coastal Ranges in California. For that matter, wetlands/riparian habitat is virtually unheard outside of Houston... what the heck do you think you're going to grow in Dallas?
It may be no loss to you, but it's also no benefit either... which makes me wonder why someone would even propose burning down an entire state if there was nothing to gain from it. Sure, I'd hit an animal if it attacked me or a loved one, but I'd never kick a puppy just to hear it whimper.