http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/08/13/violence-erupts-police-shooting-milwaukee/88699670/
How close to campus was this and will it cause concern for in coming freshman and their parents.
It's not close to campus in an urban sense of "close." However it matters how much these types of protests linger and spread to other parts of the city. While I would not be worried as a parent, those who don't know Milwaukee well enough will undoubtedly be concerned. As well as those who are wary of sending their children to an urban environment in the first place.
Not close to campus, but bear in mind that from the initial gas station fire at Sherman and Burleigh to the 23rd and North fire around 2-3 am is 28 blocks away. Don't know what to expect today, but the edge of campus is about half that distance from the North Avenue fire.
Stay safe, Alan. Fighting fires with bullets flying, or not fighting fires because the bullets are flying....... big fun.
Quote from: tower912 on August 14, 2016, 09:54:31 AM
Stay safe, Alan. Fighting fires with bullets flying, or not fighting fires because the bullets are flying....... big fun.
Thanks. Have a feeling it'll be a long 24.
Like all firefighters, I have a story about a situation similar to this....... but it doesn't matter. Keep your head down and stay safe.
Suspect was pulled over, fled police, was armed with a handgun (which was stolen), refused to drop the weapon.
Quote from: Lionel Messi on August 14, 2016, 02:02:37 PM
Viva la BLM!
Viva la Hillary!
Viva la Raza!
Viva la Hillary!
Unnecessary
Leading to a lock. Lionel Messi? Undersized soccer player? Hmmmmmm.....
125 National Guard troops reportedly on their way to Milwaukee.
Quote from: tower912 on August 14, 2016, 03:23:51 PM
Leading to a lock. Lionel Messi? Undersized soccer player? Hmmmmmm.....
Yep.
Does anythin' change if da cop was African-American, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 14, 2016, 04:19:45 PM
Does anythin' change if da cop was African-American, hey?
Are you the official representative of your race?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 14, 2016, 04:19:45 PM
Does anythin' change if da cop was African-American, hey?
Sure, the fires unburned, the national guard is uncalled, the underlying socio-economic issues are all fixed, the rest of the bullets are un-fired.... its like it never happened. ::)
Quote from: tower912 on August 14, 2016, 04:44:16 PM
Sure, the fires unburned, the national guard is uncalled, the underlying socio-economic issues are all fixed, the rest of the bullets are un-fired.... its like it never happened. ::)
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/nothing_to_see_here_naked_gun.gif)
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 14, 2016, 04:19:45 PM
Does anythin' change if da cop was African-American, hey?
He is African American. So I guess the answer is, "No."
A big concern for me would be the drain of resources to one area while "other areas of the city" become very vulnerable...oh, like that region about 28 blocks to the east for starters
Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 14, 2016, 05:51:23 PM
A big concern for me would be the drain of resources to one area while "other areas of the city" become very vulnerable...oh, like that region about 28 blocks to the east for starters
Another reason why it is good that MU has its own police force.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 14, 2016, 05:56:54 PM
Another reason why it is good that MU has its own police force.
Oh yeah! Good point! Would there be any scenario where they would be called in to help? They were already calling Waukesha and walworth county in
Quote from: warriorchick on August 14, 2016, 05:56:54 PM
Another reason why it is good that MU has its own police force.
Does Marquette have its own fire department?
When we had the Allis-Chalmers Works in West Allis they had a hospital, railroad, police and fire departments and 20,000 jobs, now we have a shopping mall. Another victory for globalization, oh well, I'm sorry.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 14, 2016, 06:03:54 PM
Oh yeah! Good point! Would there be any scenario where they would be called in to help? They were already calling Waukesha and walworth county in
I suppose MPD could always ask, but it would be understandable if MUPD decided it had to hold down the fort while the Milwuakee police officers that usually patrol the Marquette area are pulled off.
I am very happy the MU established their own police force. This whole situation last night makes me sick and depressed. I have a very good friend that his daughter and son in law work at District 7 and worried about their safety. Really hope common sense is used by all tonight.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 14, 2016, 05:14:40 PM
He is African American. So I guess the answer is, "No."
That fact was not public information until today. Also, the public has learned more about what a POS the "victim" was, including the fact that he was facing witness intimidation charges in connection with a murder he was charged with - a charge that was dismissed after the witnesses recanted.
I think the sense of outrage in the community may be a little reduced tonight.
Warriorchick
I hope you are right on the tension tonight's. Pictures my friend sent me of District 7 shows they are prepared for anything tonight.
I'm figurin' tonight and tomorrow will be quiet. However, Donald is scheduled ta blow inta town Tuesday. Could be seen as an opportunity ta grab 6 seconds of fame, ai na?
Quote from: warriorchick on August 14, 2016, 06:37:01 PM
That fact was not public information until today. Also, the public has learned more about what a POS the "victim" was, including the fact that he was facing witness intimidation charges in connection with a murder he was charged with - a charge that was dismissed after the witnesses recanted.
I think the sense of outrage in the community may be a little reduced tonight.
Have those kinds of facts ever mattered in these kinds of riots. Once again, I would say the answer to that question is, "No."
Quote from: wadesworld on August 14, 2016, 07:08:12 PM
Have those kinds of facts ever mattered in these kinds of riots. Once again, I would say the answer to that question is, "No."
If anything helps tonight, it will be the city being better prepared for it. Last night it escalated over a few hours. Today they have been planning preventative measures the entire day.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 14, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
If anything helps tonight, it will be the city being better prepared for it. Last night it escalated over a few hours. Today they have been planning preventative measures the entire day.
Agreed. And hopefully some of the people who were out in the crowd last night have had some positive influences in their ear over the past 24 hours telling them to stay out of trouble tonight.
My reaction last night was .. welp, it's just Milwaukee's time. I mean, statistics tend to show MKE has huge issues with poverty, disparity, segregation, showing the city is one of the worst places to be an African-American in the US. We're due for "unrest."
Reaction today? Really, far above expectations. Prayer circles, community gatherings, volunteers cleaning up the streets, pastors preaching to decent crowds .. and the "big crowd" protesting right now near a police station is about 50 people, at the moment, without incident besides blocking an intersection.
With other big cities "unrest" incidents in mind .. MKE is currently dealing with it unbelievably well. (Admittedly the circumstances are different, but still..)
Is there any truth to the story of people shooting at District 7's police station causing them to board up the windows?
In regards to Marquette, it sounds like there is a "large police presence" on 8th and Wisconsin.
Also, does anybody think there will be an issue commuting down Capitol (heading east to work from Tosa to Glendale around 7:15 AM and heading east back home around 5:00 PM) tomorrow?
Quote from: wadesworld on August 14, 2016, 10:28:18 PM
Is there any truth to the story of people shooting at District 7's police station causing them to board up the windows?
In regards to Marquette, it sounds like there is a "large police presence" on 8th and Wisconsin.
Also, does anybody think there will be an issue commuting down Capitol (heading east to work from Tosa to Glendale around 7:15 AM and heading east back home around 5:00 PM) tomorrow?
I'd check the news before you leave. So far it's been a night and day difference from last night. The morning should be fine, unless there's a rash of events directly along Capitol tonight. In the evening it's more likely that people will be up and around. There wasn't much going on that far north yesterday, so I doubt it would tomorrow and Capitol is usually pretty well patrolled, but if there's anything going on along Capitol tomorrow evening, maybe consider an alternate like Silver Spring.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 14, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
I'd check the news before you leave. So far it's been a night and day difference from last night. The morning should be fine, unless there's a rash of events directly along Capitol tonight. In the evening it's more likely that people will be up and around. There wasn't much going on that far north yesterday, so I doubt it would tomorrow and Capitol is usually pretty well patrolled, but if there's anything going on along Capitol tomorrow evening, maybe consider an alternate like Silver Spring.
Yeah I was thinking Silver Spring as a backup option as well. Hampton is a pretty narrow 2 lanes and seems to have more people out along it than Capitol, so if something were to go on on Capiton then Hampton would probably get hit as well.
Thanks, hoping all areas are safe and clear. Glad things are better tonight.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 14, 2016, 10:47:26 PM
Yeah I was thinking Silver Spring as a backup option as well. Hampton is a pretty narrow 2 lanes and seems to have more people out along it than Capitol, so if something were to go on on Capiton then Hampton would probably get hit as well.
Thanks, hoping all areas are safe and clear. Glad things are better tonight.
Fire in an auto parts store at 72nd and Capitol. Starting to get a bit more active out there. Might want to use that Silver Spring backup route tomorrow. I'd also avoid Hampton. Narrower road and not quite as developed as Silver Spring.
Just read a really good article in the JS. Very balanced. Showed diverse points of view from the affected community that range from...we should all take up arms, to its our fault because this generation is unparented.
I was surprised the JS would show that diversity of opinions from the affected neighborhood. The twin cities press was not nearly as transparent with similar issues earlier this summer.
Milwaukee needs to be prepared for the agitators that will come from out of town to stir the pot. That's what is next most likely. The strong voices quoted in the article who advocate for calm and accountability will need to ask the out of town agitators to go home.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 15, 2016, 07:52:35 AM
Just read a really good article in the JS. Very balanced. Showed diverse points of view from the affected community that range from...we should all take up arms, to its our fault because this generation is unparented.
I was surprised the JS would show that diversity of opinions from the affected neighborhood. The twin cities press was not nearly as transparent with similar issues earlier this summer.
Milwaukee needs to be prepared for the agitators that will come from out of town to stir the pot. That's what is next most likely. The strong voices quoted in the article who advocate for calm and accountability will need to ask the out of town agitators to go home.
Well... they won't be out-of-towners as soon as they take up a permanent residence in the county lockup.
Fortunately (for the troublemakers), this has been almost entirely an MPD issue thus far. If the county has to get involved, game over.
Quote from: Benny B on August 15, 2016, 10:07:25 AM
Well... they won't be out-of-towners as soon as they take up a permanent residence in the county lockup.
Fortunately (for the troublemakers), this has been almost entirely an MPD issue thus far. If the county has to get involved, game over.
Why what's the County going to do?
This went out today from the MUPD chief of police:
Dear parents,
Whether you live in the Milwaukee area or outside of our region, many of you likely heard of the civil unrest this past weekend, following a Milwaukee Police Department (MPD) shooting of an armed suspect on the north side. I want to assure you that our officers have been on high alert and we are working with MPD leadership to closely monitor developing information. We have brought in additional officers and are projecting a visible presence both on campus and in our near campus neighborhood.
While we advised members of the Marquette community to remain indoors last night as a precaution, all university departments are open as normal this morning. We encourage everyone on our campus to attend a prayer for peace at 12:30 p.m. today.
As we approach move-in day and the exciting year ahead, we want you all to know how seriously we take the immense responsibility of keeping your sons and daughters safe. I often hear President Lovell say that as soon as students step foot on our campus, they become part of our Marquette family. I emphasize this to every one of our officers.
For those of you who are new to Marquette, you may not know that we became a commissioned police department a little more than a year ago. Why is that important? We saw an immediate impact in crime reduction. Just six months after MU Public Safety became the Marquette University Police Department, we saw a 38% reduction in robberies and a 52% reduction in batteries. Being a commissioned police department also gives us much improved access to real-time information sharing among other agencies allowing us to be more proactive.
We have built an extensive safety infrastructure throughout campus and in the near off-campus neighborhood, which includes more than 700 cameras, over 450 blue light phones, a state-of-the-art command information center and a nationally recognized student safety program. We highly encourage you to make sure your student has downloaded our campus safety app, which is available to both iOS and Android users. We also strongly urge students to use the university's LIMO van service if traveling alone at night. Marquette offers LIMO escort vans every day of the week from 5 p.m. to 3 a.m.
I hope you find it comforting to know that all of our officers have completed the state-mandated 520 hours of training, as well as a psychological review, medical evaluation and drug test. Additionally, consistent with our mission, our officers have undergone intensive training sessions in the areas of homeless outreach, crisis intervention, and fair and impartial police training.
While our police department is staffed 365 days a year, 24 hours a day by highly trained professionals, we know that crimes do happen in urban areas. Whenever there is a threat to campus, we immediately text all students, staff and faculty. I want to emphasize that we send these texts only in emergency situations to keep our community alert — not during situations when there is not a threat to the community.
We encourage you to follow our Twitter account where you will receive every safety alert. You can also find our safety alerts and updates at http://today.marquette.edu/safety-alerts/.
We will share communications with our Parents Facebook group as a secondary resource to inform the group if an event has gained significant attention and also if there is misinformation that may be spreading. As you know, misinformation can spread quickly in today's world.
As a parent myself, I know there is nothing more important than the well-being of my children. Please know that we feel the same way about yours.
Sincerely,
Paul Mascari
Chief
The MKE cop was wearing a body camera. Waiting for the video to be released.
In the meantime ....
Study Links Police Bodycams to Increase in Shooting Deaths
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/08/12/study-links-police-bodycams-to-increase-in-shooting-deaths/
A new study by Temple University researchers, however, suggests that the wearable video cameras may not lead to fewer police shootings of civilians, but may actually make officers more likely to use lethal force.
Officers grew more comfortable using the devices in the field. "It could take a while for police officers to realize how helpful evidence from body cameras can be in justifying the use of lethal force," they write.
---------
In other words, they are more comfortable shooting someone when wearing a video camera as they believe the video will justify their use of lethal force.
Quote from: Jesse Livermore on August 15, 2016, 12:17:25 PM
The MKE cop was wearing a body camera. Waiting for the video to be released.
In the meantime ....
Study Links Police Bodycams to Increase in Shooting Deaths
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/08/12/study-links-police-bodycams-to-increase-in-shooting-deaths/
A new study by Temple University researchers, however, suggests that the wearable video cameras may not lead to fewer police shootings of civilians, but may actually make officers more likely to use lethal force.
Officers grew more comfortable using the devices in the field. "It could take a while for police officers to realize how helpful evidence from body cameras can be in justifying the use of lethal force," they write.
---------
In other words, they are more comfortable shooting someone when wearing a video camera as they believe the video will justify their use of lethal force.
Could it also be related to the fact that there seems to be more violence in general and specifically towards police officers more recently, and body cams have only become available relatively recently?
I've been cognizant of body cameras at work and try to make sure I'm aware if they are on or off, especially when it comes to medical information that might not be for public consumption. Hate for someone to pull a FOIA request and end up getting a patient's social security number.
Only 2 fires last night. First was 72nd and Capitol. Still not sure why we didn't go to that one. Sounds like that was the Capitol Auto Mart. Then another one in the Sherman Park area on 41st just south of Burleigh. I believe that was a private residence right across from part of the park.
Busy night for us, but nothing riot related. We had rigs stationed on the edge of the neighborhood with a command post there. MPD had officers or squad cars going along on virtually every call we ran into the neighborhood. The whole city just has a weird feel to it. Maybe I'm being hypersensitive, but on the few occasions we were out yesterday, there definitely seemed to be some people who went out of their way to say hi and thank us for being around, while others seemed far less happy to see us, almost as though we were encroaching.
My usual assignment, Sherman Park is my first in area. I'm temporarily at a different house; it'll be interesting to see what it's like when I get back next month.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 15, 2016, 12:26:11 PM
Could it also be related to the fact that there seems to be more violence in general and specifically towards police officers more recently, and body cams have only become available relatively recently?
Does "in general" refer to a city, county, state, region, country? Does "more recently" refer to 30 days, six months, one year?
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on August 15, 2016, 04:30:11 PM
Does "in general" refer to a city, county, state, region, country? Does "more recently" refer to 30 days, six months, one year?
I don't know, just raising the question. It just seems like there is more tension within the United States and more anger and aggression towards police now than I can ever remember. But I'm relatively young and wasn't overly concerned with such issues until fairly recently, so it was just a question. Gun violence
seems to be up, overall violence
seems to be up, racial tension
seems to be up, etc. It could be completely wrong, but if it's not, then could it be possible that the rise in police shootings has more to do with that than the comfort of knowing that they have a body cam which will justify their actions?
Just an honest question. I don't know the answer.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 15, 2016, 04:59:04 PM
I don't know, just raising the question. It just seems like there is more tension within the United States and more anger and aggression towards police now than I can ever remember. But I'm relatively young and wasn't overly concerned with such issues until fairly recently, so it was just a question. Gun violence seems to be up, overall violence seems to be up, racial tension seems to be up, etc. It could be completely wrong, but if it's not, then could it be possible that the rise in police shootings has more to do with that than the comfort of knowing that they have a body cam which will justify their actions?
Just an honest question. I don't know the answer.
My impression is that violent crime is up over the last 3-4 years, after going down significantly in the late 1990s and 2000s. Overall our urban centers are still way ahead of where we were in the 1970s and 1980s but the very recent trend is a bit disturbing.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on August 15, 2016, 11:07:33 AM
Why what's the County going to do?
Well, not the County
per se, but more its top law enforcement officer. Well respected in the community yet famously outspoken against these movements and protests organized in response to police shootings.
Quote from: Benny B on August 15, 2016, 05:13:55 PM
Well, not the County per se, but more its top law enforcement officer. Well respected in the community yet famously outspoken against these movements and protests organized in response to police shootings.
He sure is outspoken. He just heads an organization that has very little responsibility especially in regards to on the ground patrolling like MPD has. Easy to say whatever you want if you're not the one responsible for anything.
Quote from: Coleman on August 15, 2016, 05:08:17 PM
My impression is that violent crime is up over the last 3-4 years, after going down significantly in the late 1990s and 2000s. Overall our urban centers are still way ahead of where we were in the 1970s and 1980s but the very recent trend is a bit disturbing.
Violent crime is down over the last 5 years in addition to being down over the last 20-25 (link below is FBI for 5 yrs, the longer period is out there i just didn't do the extra search. There are pockets (hi Chicago) where it is up but those are the exception.
What is 'up' in my opinion is awareness through 24/7 news, surveillance cameras and cell phones - even though it's down it seems like it's up because you hear about it more.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/violent-crime-topic-page/violentcrimemain_final (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/violent-crime-topic-page/violentcrimemain_final)
Hey, enough with the facts. He feels like crime is up, leave him alone.
As for Sheriff Clarke being "well respected" .. that's not a phrase I'd associate with him. He gets elected is about the truest thing you can say about the guy, who is so conservative he's a FOX news regular .. yet runs as a Democrat because it's easier to win MKE votes.
Last week the WSJ published a story about a Wisc.Senator , who with local pastors, has created a grass roots program (private) that schools inner-city folk in the things needed to be a successful job hunter . And, unlike gov't programs they then assure the graduate of at least one interview. Evidently over a hundred people have been hired by companies in Kenosha and elsewhere and are carpooled to work by church vans. Sounds like some are beginning to address the problems in Milw.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 15, 2016, 06:01:16 PM
Hey, enough with the facts. He feels like crime is up, leave him alone.
As for Sheriff Clarke being "well respected" .. that's not a phrase I'd associate with him. He gets elected is about the truest thing you can say about the guy, who is so conservative he's a FOX news regular .. yet runs as a Democrat because it's easier to win MKE votes.
Well, I do live in Chicago, so I guess we're both right
Quote from: wadesworld on August 15, 2016, 04:59:04 PM
I don't know, just raising the question. It just seems like there is more tension within the United States and more anger and aggression towards police now than I can ever remember. But I'm relatively young and wasn't overly concerned with such issues until fairly recently, so it was just a question. Gun violence seems to be up, overall violence seems to be up, racial tension seems to be up, etc. It could be completely wrong, but if it's not, then could it be possible that the rise in police shootings has more to do with that than the comfort of knowing that they have a body cam which will justify their actions?
Just an honest question. I don't know the answer.
I'm guessing there's a healthy dose of recency bias in there.
Everything seems worse than it is because we're thinking of it in the context of a recent news story.
Flooding - worse than ever (see: Louisiana)
Urban crime - worse than ever (see: Sherman Park)
Police officers KIA - worse than ever (see: Dallas shooting)
It feels like whenever someone cites actual statistics, the reality is things are about the same as ever. Maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. Maybe that's just normal statistical fluctuation.
Quote from: jficke13 on August 15, 2016, 07:42:42 PM
I'm guessing there's a healthy dose of recency bias in there.
Everything seems worse than it is because we're thinking of it in the context of a recent news story.
Flooding - worse than ever (see: Louisiana)
Urban crime - worse than ever (see: Sherman Park)
Police officers KIA - worse than ever (see: Dallas shooting)
It feels like whenever someone cites actual statistics, the reality is things are about the same as ever. Maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. Maybe that's just normal statistical fluctuation.
Crime is up. This is the worst summer in Chicago since like the early 1990s.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 15, 2016, 08:15:04 PM
Crime is up. This is the worst summer in Chicago since like the early 1990s.
That's seasonal though, the annual homicide rates aren't "up" compared to the early 2000s and everything prior. In fact since the major drop in 2003 there's really only been two outliers since and that's 2008 and 2012. It is fair to say we're on pace for another outlier in which case perhaps election years are to blame!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#Murder_and_shootings
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 15, 2016, 06:01:16 PM
Hey, enough with the facts. He feels like crime is up, leave him alone.
As for Sheriff Clarke being "well respected" .. that's not a phrase I'd associate with him. He gets elected is about the truest thing you can say about the guy, who is so conservative he's a FOX news regular .. yet runs as a Democrat because it's easier to win MKE votes.
Careful ... I hear a Scooper can get banned for political rants these days!
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 15, 2016, 06:01:16 PM
Hey, enough with the facts. He feels like crime is up, leave him alone.
As for Sheriff Clarke being "well respected" .. that's not a phrase I'd associate with him. He gets elected is about the truest thing you can say about the guy, who is so conservative he's a FOX news regular .. yet runs as a Democrat because it's easier to win MKE votes.
Nice first post, Tim.
Clarke is a registered Democrat that beat Democrats in the primary every election. He then went on to beat the Republican in the general. Yes, it is easier to win MKE votes as a Democrat, but even going head to head against other Democrats he has won every time when they should have the same party advantage. Or more so, if your claims he really isn't a Democrat.
2002, defeated Democrats Pete Misko and Mark Hayes in the Dem primary
2006, defeated Democrat Vince Bobot in Dem primary
2010, defeated Democrat Dave Clarke in Dem primary
2014, defeated Democrat Dave Clarke in Dem primary
2013, National Sheriff of the Year (I guess some people respect him)
Did you know David Clarke played at Marquette University High School and helped win a state private school basketball championship for the Hilltoppers in 1973? He graduated Summa Cum Laude from Concordia, and is a MU basketball hoops fan.
Quote from: Tim The Enchanter on August 15, 2016, 10:55:00 PM
2013, National Sheriff of the Year (I guess some people respect him)
Yes. A group of sheriffs who believe"their primary duty is to protect local citizens from the tyranny of the federal government."
http://archive.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/bicecol16-7l9v73c-207614191.html
I'm not going to single anyone out but I personally believe this thread has wandered toward 'political'. No doubt each of us has an opinion on Sheriff Clark. I certainly do. But I'll keep that to myself.
Quote from: Tim The Enchanter on August 15, 2016, 10:55:00 PM
Nice first post, Tim.
Clarke is a registered Democrat that beat Democrats in the primary every election. He then went on to beat the Republican in the general. Yes, it is easier to win MKE votes as a Democrat, but even going head to head against other Democrats he has won every time when they should have the same party advantage. Or more so, if your claims he really isn't a Democrat.
2002, defeated Democrats Pete Misko and Mark Hayes in the Dem primary
2006, defeated Democrat Vince Bobot in Dem primary
2010, defeated Democrat Dave Clarke in Dem primary
2014, defeated Democrat Dave Clarke in Dem primary
2013, National Sheriff of the Year (I guess some people respect him)
Did you know David Clarke played at Marquette University High School and helped win a state private school basketball championship for the Hilltoppers in 1973? He graduated Summa Cum Laude from Concordia, and is a MU basketball hoops fan.
Enough with the politics.
We are off and running, didn't take long.
Quote from: Coleman on August 16, 2016, 09:14:58 AM
Enough with the politics.
All I'll say is that Obama is the founder of Milwaukee violence.
He's the founder! He's the founder!
And Crooked Hillary is the co-founder!
Aw come on ... gotta have a sense of humor about this stuff ...
Quote from: MU82 on August 16, 2016, 09:32:40 AM
All I'll say is that Obama is the founder of Milwaukee violence.
He's the founder! He's the founder!
And Crooked Hillary is the co-founder!
Aw come on ... gotta have a sense of humor about this stuff ...
Yeah, so far the Milwaukee riots have been "a regular riot" (apologies to Jackie Gleason/Ralph Kramden).
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 15, 2016, 08:15:04 PM
Crime is up. This is the worst summer in Chicago since like the early 1990s.
You need to be less vague. What constitutes "crime" when you write that this is the worst summer "since like the early 1990s"?
Are carjackings up "like the early 1990s"? Are sexual assaults up "like the early 1990s"? Are robberies up "like the early 1990s"? Are petty thefts up "like the early 1990s"? Are death by auto up "like the early 1990s"? Are kidnappings up "like the early 1990s"?
IMHO, great letter by MU CHIEF OF POLICE.
Surveillance cameras reduce crime.
Lights reduce crime.
Enough with the evergreens and foundation plantings.
Hope I'm not being political. There is probably a PAC for evergreens out there somewhere.
Quote from: Tim The Enchanter on August 15, 2016, 10:55:00 PM
Nice first post, Tim.
Clarke is a registered Democrat that beat Democrats in the primary every election. He then went on to beat the Republican in the general. Yes, it is easier to win MKE votes as a Democrat, but even going head to head against other Democrats he has won every time when they should have the same party advantage. Or more so, if your claims he really isn't a Democrat.
2002, defeated Democrats Pete Misko and Mark Hayes in the Dem primary
2006, defeated Democrat Vince Bobot in Dem primary
2010, defeated Democrat Dave Clarke in Dem primary
2014, defeated Democrat Dave Clarke in Dem primary
2013, National Sheriff of the Year (I guess some people respect him)
Did you know David Clarke played at Marquette University High School and helped win a state private school basketball championship for the Hilltoppers in 1973? He graduated Summa Cum Laude from Concordia, and is a MU basketball hoops fan.
I don't want to end up like Chico's so I'll stay away from The Sherriff debate.
As for the issue of crime being up or down. Petty theft and property crimes have been going up in the last 2 years still much lower than they were in the 90's. But violent crime across the nation, minus some outliers, is considerably down and continues to trend that way.
The cycle of 24/7 news media makes it seem more prevalent. a very good example of the news cycles bringing attention to an issue that many thought was dormant, but in reality had been ongoing at a steady rate for decades is international piracy on the high seas. instances of Piracy off the coast of Africa and in the waters around the Asian archipelago has been steady for decades. But in the early 2000's the 24/7 news media began to cover it more,which lead many to think, erroneously, that piracy was on the rise.
please excuse grammatical and spelling errors, still on my first cuppa
Quote from: Tim The Enchanter on August 15, 2016, 10:55:00 PM
Did you know David Clarke played at Marquette University High School and helped win a state private school basketball championship for the Hilltoppers in 1973? He graduated Summa Cum Laude from Concordia, and is a MU basketball hoops fan.
Gary Rosenberger's MUHS 1973 team came out to play us (MLHS) ....and I recall thinking ...gosh we limited the number of shots he got off pretty well.
We did.... he only got off 20 shots..problem was he made 18 of them and put up 40 that night. Next to Jim Chones..Gary was the best HS player I saw in person, as a kid. I have no recall of David Clarke
Curious hypothesis:
Has cyber crime (largerly unreported) and fraud replaced a lot of the traditional crime, giving us a false reading on the statistics.
I read an article yesterday that said half of all UK crime is now cyber crime. This is much harder to get a read on metrics.
Are the same people who would have robbed a bank 30 years ago now stealing credit card info online?
This obviously doesn't explain violent crime rates but it would impact crime driven by greed or money.
Just a shot in the dark.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2016, 10:07:42 AM
IMHO, great letter by MU CHIEF OF POLICE.
Surveillance cameras reduce crime.
Lights reduce crime.
Enough with the evergreens and foundation plantings.
Hope I'm not being political. There is probably a PAC for evergreens out there somewhere.
+1
The creation of MUPD is one of the best decisions by MU in the last 20 years.
Quote from: jsglow on August 16, 2016, 11:01:47 AM
+1
The creation of MUPD is one of the best decisions by MU in the last 20 years.
until the confiscated my fake ID freshman year. Grrr...
Quote from: GWSwarrior on August 16, 2016, 11:39:09 AM
until the confiscated my fake ID freshman year. Grrr...
You mean the one that you were breaking the law with? ::)
Look, I get it. 'Busted' my own kid once with an $85 excellent fake from Vermont. Only Bernie is from Vermont. I let him/her (so as not to disclose identity) keep it. My words, 'Don't call me if you get busted and in trouble during the next xx months.'
That reminds me. We had to bail my roommate's friend out of jail 35 years ago. Something about public urination. He did have the decency to walk down the alley reportedly. Nothing changes.
Quote from: jsglow on August 16, 2016, 01:36:01 PM
You mean the one that you were breaking the law with? ::)
Look, I get it. 'Busted' my own kid once with an $85 excellent fake from Vermont. Only Bernie is from Vermont. I let him/her (so as not to disclose identity) keep it. My words, 'Don't call me if you get busted and in trouble during the next xx months.'
That reminds me. We had to bail my roommate's friend out of jail 35 years ago. Something about public urination. He did have the decency to walk down the alley reportedly. Nothing changes.
Wow did you lose your sense of humor in your old age
Quote from: GWSwarrior on August 16, 2016, 02:01:41 PM
Wow did you lose your sense of humor in your old age
Let me guess. You are not a parent.
He did let our child from "Vermont" keep it. He isn't totally lame.
Also, in the early '80's Wisconsin and Tennessee were the last two states that did not have photographs on their IDs. Made things a lot easier.
Quote from: jsglow on August 16, 2016, 01:36:01 PM
You mean the one that you were breaking the law with? ::)
Look, I get it. 'Busted' my own kid once with an $85 excellent fake from Vermont. Only Bernie is from Vermont. I let him/her (so as not to disclose identity) keep it. My words, 'Don't call me if you get busted and in trouble during the next xx months.'
That reminds me. We had to bail my roommate's friend out of jail 35 years ago. Something about public urination. He did have the decency to walk down the alley reportedly. Nothing changes.
Most of us probably had the experience of bailing a friend out of jail in Milwaukee at least once. I hear they serve a mean bologna sandwich.....and that's all they serve.
Quote from: GWSwarrior on August 16, 2016, 02:01:41 PM
Wow did you lose your sense of humor in your old age
Nah, we're cool. Just like I'm confident you were 'faux outraged' when MUPD grabbed your ID. Price of doing business at 19.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 16, 2016, 02:06:59 PM
Let me guess. You are not a parent.
He did let our child from "Vermont" keep it. He isn't totally lame.
Also, in the early '80's Wisconsin and Tennessee were the last two states that did not have photographs on their IDs. Made things a lot easier.
Correct I am not a parent I also wasn't 18 in the 80's and I fail to understand what that has to do with my joke.
my comment about his losing his sense of humor was a joke, which judging by his f/u post he got.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 16, 2016, 02:14:04 PM
Most of us probably had the experience of bailing a friend out of jail in Milwaukee at least once. I hear they serve a mean bologna sandwich.....and that's all they serve.
Did I ever bail you out chili? Do you still owe me money?
Quote from: GWSwarrior on August 16, 2016, 02:19:53 PM
Correct I am not a parent I also wasn't 18 in the 80's and I fail to understand what that has to do with my joke.
my comment about his losing his sense of humor was a joke, which judging by his f/u post he got.
Ummm, 'follow up' I presume? ;D
Quote from: jsglow on August 16, 2016, 02:20:24 PM
Did I ever bail you out chili? Do you still owe me money?
at the standard 9% interest right?
Quote from: jsglow on August 16, 2016, 01:36:01 PM
You mean the one that you were breaking the law with? ::)
Look, I get it. 'Busted' my own kid once with an $85 excellent fake from Vermont. Only Bernie is from Vermont. I let him/her (so as not to disclose identity) keep it. My words, 'Don't call me if you get busted and in trouble during the next xx months.'
That reminds me. We had to bail my roommate's friend out of jail 35 years ago. Something about public urination. He did have the decency to walk down the alley reportedly. Nothing changes.
We had a student arrested for mashing, I had to look it up.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 16, 2016, 02:14:04 PM
Most of us probably had the experience of bailing a friend out of jail in Milwaukee at least once. I hear they serve a mean bologna sandwich.....and that's all they serve.
When I got arrested for disordedly, obstructing and resisting Fr. McCabe got me off. Have not been arrested in 50 years, busted once, but that does not count, ha.
Quote from: GWSwarrior on August 16, 2016, 02:19:53 PM
Correct I am not a parent I also wasn't 18 in the 80's and I fail to understand what that has to do with my joke.
my comment about his losing his sense of humor was a joke, which judging by his f/u post he got.
My post was supposed to be good natured. I will try harder next time. :)
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2016, 02:40:54 PM
When I got arrested for disordedly, obstructing and resisting Fr. McCabe got me off. Have not been arrested in 50 years, busted once, but that does not count, ha.
Given the Catholic Church's difficulties, you might want to watch your wording in the future!
Quote from: jsglow on August 16, 2016, 02:20:24 PM
Did I ever bail you out chili? Do you still owe me money?
Never had the privilege of being an overnight guest of the MPD. I think you owe me money....or a beer.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2016, 02:36:52 PM
We had a student arrested for mashing, I had to look it up.
Is dat kinda like "dry humpin", hey?
http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/16/news/economy/milwaukee-blacks-inequality/index.html
(http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/16/news/economy/milwaukee-blacks-inequality/index.html)
Can't assume this helps recruiting at all.
My last semester one of my best friends on Halloween night got a DUI and crashed into one of the student safety supervisor vehicles. I happened to be working that night so I had to deal with that, call his parents and everything because I was the only sober one. That was a long night.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 16, 2016, 06:14:27 PM
My last semester one of my best friends on Halloween night got a DUI and crashed into one of the student safety supervisor vehicles. I happened to be working that night so I had to deal with that, call his parents and everything because I was the only sober one. That was a long night.
I think I heard that story.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 15, 2016, 06:01:16 PM
Hey, enough with the facts. He feels like crime is up, leave him alone.
As for Sheriff Clarke being "well respected" .. that's not a phrase I'd associate with him. He gets elected is about the truest thing you can say about the guy, who is so conservative he's a FOX news regular .. yet runs as a Democrat because it's easier to win MKE votes.
Serving his 4th term, elected by many democrats as well as "those other people". I don't care what station he's on, no one would put him on if he didn't have anything "well respected" to say
Quote from: MU82 on August 16, 2016, 09:32:40 AM
All I'll say is that Obama is the founder of Milwaukee violence.
He's the founder! He's the founder!
And Crooked Hillary is the co-founder!
Aw come on ... gotta have a sense of humor about this stuff ...
I know someone who got banned for rants like this...FREE DA MAN, EyN'A hey fellas?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 16, 2016, 06:52:44 PM
I know someone who got banned for rants like this...FREE DA MAN, EyN'A hey fellas?
I recently saw an analogy that fits this situation perfectly:
That would be like playing chess with a pigeon.....you know he's just going to sh*t all over the board then strut around like he won.
Free Chicos 2016
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 16, 2016, 07:49:49 PM
Free Chicos 2016
Sure as well wouldn't want to have to pay for him.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 16, 2016, 06:49:11 PM
Serving his 4th term, elected by many democrats as well as "those other people". I don't care what station he's on, no one would put him on if he didn't have anything "well respected" to say
Really? Everyone who is asked to talk on television has well respected opinions? Agree to disagree on this one.
I never got arrested for public urination? Merely a fine.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 16, 2016, 06:52:44 PM
I know someone who got banned for rants like this...FREE DA MAN, EyN'A hey fellas?
Except mine wasn't a rant. It was a joke. Which I think you know.
This board is better without people who love arguing incessantly for the sake of arguing.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 16, 2016, 08:03:29 PM
Really? Everyone who is asked to talk on television has well respected opinions? Agree to disagree on this one.
Keyword-not "everyone" evidently
Quote from: MU82 on August 16, 2016, 10:22:32 PM
Except mine wasn't a rant. It was a joke. Which I think you know.
This board is better without people who love arguing incessantly for the sake of arguing.
I fully understood that, but I couldn't help myself to take advantage of the opportunity
BC77, professionally speaking, are you still running with pd on your apparatus? Are you housing them at the stations? Our police and fire administrators are watching and taking notes to plan for when something inevitably happens here.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 16, 2016, 06:14:27 PM
My last semester one of my best friends on Halloween night got a DUI and crashed into one of the student safety supervisor vehicles. I happened to be working that night so I had to deal with that, call his parents and everything because I was the only sober one. That was a long night.
Why would a college student possibly be driving on Halloween night?
Never drive anywhere on Halloween, NYE or St. Patrick's Day. That's just common sense.
Quote from: PTM on August 16, 2016, 10:01:39 PM
I never got arrested for public urination? Merely a fine.
You are luckier than James Schoemperlen was.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on August 17, 2016, 09:06:32 AM
You are luckier than James Schoemperlen was.
That's a blast from the past.
Along with him, we also had the Ernest Lacy deal too. I remember vividly the protest on Wisconsin avenue as it passed Schroeder. The MPD were a bunch of sh1t kickers back then. You did not mess with the MPD. Period. Chief Brier (sp) ran a very tough department. Curious if it's changed.
Of course, part of da pussification of America, ai na?
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on August 17, 2016, 09:06:32 AM
You are luckier than James Schoemperlen was.
yeah, last time he pee'd standing up, eyn"a?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on August 17, 2016, 08:35:07 AM
Why would a college student possibly be driving on Halloween night?
Never drive anywhere on Halloween, NYE or St. Patrick's Day. That's just common sense.
Why drive any where / any time at MU?
The downside of MU cleaning up campus and buying out all the bars, kids moving down to Water, Brady, North for their fun.
Quote from: The Lens on August 17, 2016, 12:46:32 PM
Why drive any where / any time at MU?
The downside of MU cleaning up campus and buying out all the bars, kids moving down to Water, Brady, North for their fun.
The majority of the recent MU students I know take Uber if they are leaving campus to party.
There is no excuse ever to drink and drive.
He was so messed up he didn't even remember it happening.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 17, 2016, 01:16:42 PM
The majority of the recent MU students I know take Uber if they are leaving campus to party.
There is no excuse ever to drink and drive.
I will never be a credit card parent but my Uber account is the one thing I might let my kids abuse. Of course by then Uber will probably be delivering kegs, pizza shuttle and Northface fleeces (they were the cool jacket in 1997) so I will end up being a credit card parent.
Quote from: The Lens on August 17, 2016, 01:45:12 PM
I will never be a credit card parent but my Uber account is the one thing I might let my kids abuse. Of course by then Uber will probably be delivering kegs, pizza shuttle and Northface fleeces (they were the cool jacket in 1997) so I will end up being a credit card parent.
What the F is a credit card parent?
Quote from: mu03eng on August 17, 2016, 01:51:20 PM
What the F is a credit card parent?
A parent who every month pays the credit card bill of their college aged son or daughter. I didn't know a ton of their kids when I was in school, but I knew enough to get drunk even when I was broke.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 17, 2016, 01:51:20 PM
What the F is a credit card parent?
Speaks the rookie dad of a 9 month old! What Lens said.
Quote from: tower912 on August 17, 2016, 07:26:58 AM
BC77, professionally speaking, are you still running with pd on your apparatus? Are you housing them at the stations? Our police and fire administrators are watching and taking notes to plan for when something inevitably happens here.
I do not believe we are anymore. We had officers riding along with us the first night and from the second night on had officers either riding along or following in squad cars for any runs in the vicinity of the unrest. Lack of security is why BP was allowed to burn. The next three fires (O'Reilly, Jet Beauty, BMO Harris) all took place within a block of each other, so once O'Reilly was secure, it was relatively easy for MPD to contain the area. Though with an auto parts store, it still took hours to fully get under control.
I sent you a PM with more specifics, let me know if there's anything else I can pass on.
Quote from: The Lens on August 17, 2016, 01:56:11 PM
A parent who every month pays the credit card bill of their college aged son or daughter. I didn't know a ton of their kids when I was in school, but I knew enough to get drunk even when I was broke.
God I hate millenials :o ;D
Quote from: mu03eng on August 17, 2016, 02:35:54 PM
God I hate millenials :o ;D
I'm a bona fide Gen Xer, yet one of my best buds in college was a credit card kid. Sadly, this phenomenon is not limited to Millennials.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 17, 2016, 02:35:54 PM
God I hate millenials :o ;D
CC parents were alive and well in the late 80's. I do acknowledge us old GenX'ers suck too but coddled kids have been around forever (or so I've been told :-[)
***Ooops, what Benny said
Quote from: mu03eng on August 17, 2016, 02:35:54 PM
God I hate millenials :o ;D
Just read an article today explaining that millennials actually have less credit card debt than other generations at a comparable age, but only because they are so frequently declined for credit cards. Instead, they are racking up debt from check cashing places, with is multiples worse than CCs.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 14, 2016, 10:19:33 PM
My reaction last night was .. welp, it's just Milwaukee's time. I mean, statistics tend to show MKE has huge issues with poverty, disparity, segregation, showing the city is one of the worst places to be an African-American in the US. We're due for "unrest."
Reaction today? Really, far above expectations. Prayer circles, community gatherings, volunteers cleaning up the streets, pastors preaching to decent crowds .. and the "big crowd" protesting right now near a police station is about 50 people, at the moment, without incident besides blocking an intersection.
With other big cities "unrest" incidents in mind .. MKE is currently dealing with it unbelievably well. (Admittedly the circumstances are different, but still..)
Sorry to change the subject from the previous posts, but I just got to thinking. If the guy that was shot by the police, (I don't care what ethnicity the police were) had the background/rap sheet this guy had and it were a Caucasian, I wouldn't be burning down my city. If the police were ridding my neighborhood of Caucasian scofflaws and miscreants by any method, I am content with that as everyone's life becomes more safe. These dudes are killing innocent people. Children sitting on their porches, watching tv, etc. they are enslaving the innocent law abiding people and that just ain't right in my book
Quote from: The Lens on August 17, 2016, 01:56:11 PM
A parent who every month pays the credit card bill of their college aged son or daughter. I didn't know a ton of their kids when I was in school, but I knew enough to get drunk even when I was broke.
I am a millennial and have literally never heard of anyone who has this arrangement.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 17, 2016, 01:16:42 PM
The majority of the recent MU students I know take Uber if they are leaving campus to party.
There is no excuse ever to drink and drive.
Funny thing, back in my day those of us who lived on campus made friends with the commuter half of students (we called them townies) as they had the cars. Ironically I was usually the guy who was the designated driver. I was never one to get that warm fuzzy from too much alcohol but rather it made me sick. My limit would be about 4 beers, though usually 2, while my buddies just could drink all night. I would drive them all home and return their car the next day though on occasion their dads would drive me back to campus. Back then drinking and driving was not the taboo it is today, but we were mature enough to make sure one of us was "sober" enough to be behind the wheel.
Quote from: Coleman on August 17, 2016, 05:01:38 PM
I am a millennial and have literally never heard of anyone who has this arrangement.
I heard of it somewhat back in my day-80's. So it isn't all new, but maybe more prevalent today? I don't have any stats, but if the helicopter parents are true to their game...wouldn't surprise me
Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 17, 2016, 07:31:11 PM
I heard of it somewhat back in my day-80's. So it isn't all new, but maybe more prevalent today? I don't have any stats, but if the helicopter parents are true to their game...wouldn't surprise me
I have an acquaintance whose Marquette student was basically a credit card kid. She finally put it to somewhat of a stop when the kid was spending hundreds of dollars a month on takeout food even though she had a full meal plan. Oh, and she was taking Ubers to get around campus instead of walking or using LIMO.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 17, 2016, 02:35:54 PM
God I hate millenials :o ;D
Don't blame us. All you gen Xers have to do is say "no, we won't be paying the credit card bill." Stop it real fast.
Also, I hate millennials.
Quote from: The Lens on August 17, 2016, 01:56:11 PM
A parent who every month pays the credit card bill of their college aged son or daughter. I didn't know a ton of their kids when I was in school, but I knew enough to get drunk even when I was broke.
I cannot imagine that my father would have given me a credit card, much less paid it off for me.
I was expected to work construction and such during summers while at Marquette. I remember my old man visiting me at Camp Upshur during a 6-week PLC summer boot camp and telling me he lined up a gig for me working construction once I finished up at Quantico. I literally went form training to be a Marine Corps officer to digging ditches.
My sisters, meanwhile, got sent to Europe during their summer breaks. When I asked him about the disparity he simply said they were girls.
I mean, wtfo.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on August 16, 2016, 08:30:22 AM
Yes. A group of sheriffs who believe"their primary duty is to protect local citizens from the tyranny of the federal government."
http://archive.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/bicecol16-7l9v73c-207614191.html
He also won the Federal Law Enforcement Officer Association's Law Enforcement Leader of the Year, March 2016.
http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/milwaukee-county-sheriff-david-clarke-wins-fleoas-law-enforcement-leader-of-year-award
He continues to win re-election in Democrat primaries. Then in the general.
Quote from: keefe on August 17, 2016, 11:50:31 PM
I cannot imagine that my father would have given me a credit card, much less paid it off for me.
I was expected to work construction and such during summers while at Marquette. I remember my old man visiting me at Camp Upshur during a 6-week PLC summer boot camp and telling me he lined up a gig for me working construction once I finished up at Quantico. I literally went form training to be a Marine Corps officer to digging ditches.
My sisters, meanwhile, got sent to Europe during their summer breaks. When I asked him about the disparity he simply said they were girls.
I mean, wtfo.
I know hey. It seems to get more difficult every generation to pass along the sacrifices of the past. I won't go into detail here but our multi-generational story frankly on both sides of the family must seem alien to our kids despite the fact that chick and I have worked very hard to try to instill those working class values. But they are surrounded by so very much affluence and materialism. One thing I will say. Both benefited from a high school experience that was multi-racial and covered a wide socioeconomic swath. And as many of you know and as I've discussed previously, there's been a cultural shift that many of my generation wouldn't recognize at today's Marquette. Chitown has chimed in on this more than once. It's not everyone but...
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 17, 2016, 11:37:09 PM
Don't blame us. All you gen Xers have to do is say "no, we won't be paying the credit card bill." Stop it real fast.
Also, I hate millennials.
It was self loathing, depending on the definition I fall in the beginning of the millenial generation.
We also had our first kid later than most so where we run into other parents of babies/toddlers like day care they are solidly millenials and I just want to shot myself in the face with something the things that are getting passed on to the newest generation from the most entitled generation.
We got some toy or another from a rummage sale that my son loves, topic came up when we were dropping him off at day care and I said something like "yeah it's great, 10 cents at a rummage sale and he's endlessly entertained". Two of the moms also dropping off reacted as if I announced that I was in the most contagious stages of the bubonic plague.
I really hope I can prevent my kid from becoming a self-entitled, pretentious a$$hole
And to your point Aggie, I totally agree, the millenials aren't totally to blame....their parents were idiots.
Quote from: jsglow on August 18, 2016, 07:33:58 AM
I know hey. It seems to get more difficult every generation to pass along the sacrifices of the past. I won't go into detail here but our multi-generational story frankly on both sides of the family must seem alien to our kids despite the fact that chick and I have worked very hard to try to instill those working class values. But they are surrounded by so very much affluence and materialism. One thing I will say. Both benefited from a high school experience that was multi-racial and covered a wide socioeconomic swath. And as many of you know and as I've discussed previously, there's been a cultural shift that many of my generation wouldn't recognize at today's Marquette. Chitown has chimed in on this more than once. It's not everyone but...
Curious how you achieved that experience for your kids. I was a military brat and moved all over the place and ended up in some good places and some bad.....forced me to adapt, see all sides, and realize no matter how bad I might have it somebody has it worse. It was tough but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything but I'm trying to figure out how to deliver a similar experience for my kid to what you and Chick were able to do.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 18, 2016, 07:54:04 AM
Curious how you achieved that experience for your kids. I was a military brat and moved all over the place and ended up in some good places and some bad.....forced me to adapt, see all sides, and realize no matter how bad I might have it somebody has it worse. It was tough but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything but I'm trying to figure out how to deliver a similar experience for my kid to what you and Chick were able to do.
Just be true to your values.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 18, 2016, 07:50:10 AM
It was self loathing, depending on the definition I fall in the beginning of the millenial generation.
We also had our first kid later than most so where we run into other parents of babies/toddlers like day care they are solidly millenials and I just want to shot myself in the face with something the things that are getting passed on to the newest generation from the most entitled generation.
We got some toy or another from a rummage sale that my son loves, topic came up when we were dropping him off at day care and I said something like "yeah it's great, 10 cents at a rummage sale and he's endlessly entertained". Two of the moms also dropping off reacted as if I announced that I was in the most contagious stages of the bubonic plague.
I really hope I can prevent my kid from becoming a self-entitled, pretentious a$$hole
And to your point Aggie, I totally agree, the millenials aren't totally to blame....their parents were idiots.
I am like you Eng; I would rather brag about how little I paid for something as opposed to how much I paid for something. Back when Chick jr. and Glow jr. were tots, I mentioned to my then-boss (a woman who was born, raised, and still lived on the North Shore) that I bought quite a bit of my kids' brand-name clothes at resale and consignment shops. She looked at me as if I had told her that I went dumpster diving for them.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 18, 2016, 07:54:04 AM
Curious how you achieved that experience for your kids. I was a military brat and moved all over the place and ended up in some good places and some bad.....forced me to adapt, see all sides, and realize no matter how bad I might have it somebody has it worse. It was tough but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything but I'm trying to figure out how to deliver a similar experience for my kid to what you and Chick were able to do.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 18, 2016, 07:55:35 AM
Just be true to your values.
This is it. Exactly. Look your kids are going to have it easier than you. You don't have to try to deliver similar experiences. Just make sure they work for what they earn.
My kids both went to school with "credit card kids." Neither of my kids had a credit card. We made them pay for a portion of their schooling. They both took out student loans to pay for that portion. We took care of the balance of the direct, billed costs. They had to work for their day to day expenses.
Neither of them were resentful in any way. In fact both of them now pretty much look down on the credit card kids as pathetic.
Very good discussion, thanks.
The only answer may be the Jesuit influence and philosoophy at MU.
That is why the universities are trying to instill community service as part of the higher education experience.
A nobel effort.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 18, 2016, 08:55:10 AM
Very good discussion, thanks.
The only answer may be the Jesuit influence and philosoophy at MU.
That is why the universities are trying to instill community service as part of the higher education experience.
A nobel effort.
I can assure you the Jesuit influence didn't change my values at all, and I think I turned out okay. Not saying by it isn't of any value to some people but the emphasis isn't what it once was.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 18, 2016, 09:05:16 AM
I can assure you the Jesuit influence didn't change my values at all, and I think I turned out okay. Not saying by it isn't of any value to some people but the emphasis isn't what it once was.
Compared to when I was at MU, it is much more emphasized. I don't remember ever hearing about Jesuit values or Ignatian Thought outside of theology class. That philosophy is definitely way more pervasive across the university as a whole.
Quote from: Coleman on August 17, 2016, 05:01:38 PM
I am a millennial and have literally never heard of anyone who has this arrangement.
And here I thought everyone had seen
Tommy Boy.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 18, 2016, 07:54:04 AM
Curious how you achieved that experience for your kids. I was a military brat and moved all over the place and ended up in some good places and some bad.....forced me to adapt, see all sides, and realize no matter how bad I might have it somebody has it worse. It was tough but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything but I'm trying to figure out how to deliver a similar experience for my kid to what you and Chick were able to do.
It's ALL about how you and Mrs. Eng live your lives. If you can stay committed to 'people matter, things just break' then that'll rub off. I have numerous examples we can share over a beer sometime.
Quote from: Coleman on August 17, 2016, 05:01:38 PM
I am a millennial and have literally never heard of anyone who has this arrangement.
Really? I'm a grown millennial and my parents still pay my credit card every month. In college, they'd load up my Marquette card for late night feasting, and gave me extra cash so I could buy booze while underage.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on August 18, 2016, 08:41:22 AMMy kids both went to school with "credit card kids." Neither of my kids had a credit card. We made them pay for a portion of their schooling. They both took out student loans to pay for that portion. We took care of the balance of the direct, billed costs. They had to work for their day to day expenses.
I think this is huge. You learn to value the things you earn. I don't think parents should buy their kids cars or houses most definitely, but also think kids should pay for their own education or at the very least pay for a good chunk of it. When it's your $1,000+ per credit, that's an inspiration to pass the class and to not drop out.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 18, 2016, 10:35:19 AM
I think this is huge. You learn to value the things you earn. I don't think parents should buy their kids cars or houses most definitely, but also think kids should pay for their own education or at the very least pay for a good chunk of it. When it's your $1,000+ per credit, that's an inspiration to pass the class and to not drop out.
Agreed. With the risk of sharing too much, both our kids were responsible for a percentage of their college costs. We did count scholarships on their side of the ledger. Both drove LIMO until 3a a couple nights a week.
"Something that is free has no value.
That which is obtained through effort is treasured.." They all got it
Quote from: jsglow on August 18, 2016, 07:33:58 AM
I know hey. It seems to get more difficult every generation to pass along the sacrifices of the past. I won't go into detail here but our multi-generational story frankly on both sides of the family must seem alien to our kids despite the fact that chick and I have worked very hard to try to instill those working class values. But they are surrounded by so very much affluence and materialism. One thing I will say. Both benefited from a high school experience that was multi-racial and covered a wide socioeconomic swath. And as many of you know and as I've discussed previously, there's been a cultural shift that many of my generation wouldn't recognize at today's Marquette. Chitown has chimed in on this more than once. It's not everyone but...
My wife was raised with solid Milwaukee Burgher values of thrift, hard work, and obedience which were useful as we reared our children in expat communities where kids had drivers, money, and a lot of personal freedom.
I recall we were with a group at a new restaurant in Jakarta which had a mezzanine bar level. Our then 15 year old eldest was there with his friends shooting pool, drinking Bintang beer, and smoking those Indonesian kretek (clove) cigarettes. His mother spotted him and was upstairs in a flash to dispense swift and sure justice.
An Italian friend commented that she had been rather harsh but her reply was classic Milwaukee: His dupa was going to regret that evening.
Quote from: Wally Schroeder on August 18, 2016, 10:08:01 AM
Really? I'm a grown millennial and my parents still pay my credit card every month.
Are you serious? Are you employed?
Quote from: keefe on August 17, 2016, 11:50:31 PM
I cannot imagine that my father would have given me a credit card, much less paid it off for me.
I was expected to work construction and such during summers while at Marquette. I remember my old man visiting me at Camp Upshur during a 6-week PLC summer boot camp and telling me he lined up a gig for me working construction once I finished up at Quantico. I literally went form training to be a Marine Corps officer to digging ditches.
My sisters, meanwhile, got sent to Europe during their summer breaks. When I asked him about the disparity he simply said they were girls.
I mean, wtfo.
This sounds remarkably like my father. He wouldn't even cosign the lease for my first apartment despite the fact that I had been working steadily since I was 14. Somehow there was always money to buy my sisters cars when they inevitably ran theirs into the ground. "They're girls" was always the response.
I'm firmly in the millennial age group, if anyone was curious.
Quote from: Wally Schroeder on August 18, 2016, 10:08:01 AM
Really? I'm a grown millennial and my parents still pay my credit card every month. In college, they'd load up my Marquette card for late night feasting, and gave me extra cash so I could buy booze while underage.
Isn't that an oxymoron?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on August 18, 2016, 01:40:33 PM
Are you serious? Are you employed?
Didn't think teal was necessary. I agree with the OP. I didn't know anyone at Marquette with a credit card bill paid by their parents. Sure, there were a number of kids who were clearly well off and provided the advantage of 100% parental funded education, but not the free reign being suggested.
Quote from: mu03eng on August 18, 2016, 07:54:04 AM
Curious how you achieved that experience for your kids. I was a military brat and moved all over the place and ended up in some good places and some bad.....forced me to adapt, see all sides, and realize no matter how bad I might have it somebody has it worse. It was tough but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything but I'm trying to figure out how to deliver a similar experience for my kid to what you and Chick were able to do.
I used to find that beating my kids within an inch of their lives and then yelling, "Shaddup or I'll really give you something to cry about," worked very well.
Quote from: Wally Schroeder on August 18, 2016, 03:48:48 PM
Didn't think teal was necessary. I agree with the OP. I didn't know anyone at Marquette with a credit card bill paid by their parents. Sure, there were a number of kids who were clearly well off and provided the advantage of 100% parental funded education, but not the free reign being suggested.
I know somebody (non-MU) whose parents paid all of his expenses for him, at least through the first couple years out of college. They were loaded and wanted him to be able to commit his salary to savings/investment. He had a solid corporate job, not something where it was a struggle in the slightest.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on August 18, 2016, 09:05:16 AM
I can assure you the Jesuit influence didn't change my values at all, and I think I turned out okay. Not saying by it isn't of any value to some people but the emphasis isn't what it once was.
It takes time for most of us, at 50 it started to sink in. At my reunion I saw a former president of Creighton watering the pots in front of Gesu, I call that Jesuit values.
Quote from: MU82 on August 18, 2016, 04:07:13 PM
I used to find that beating my kids within an inch of their lives and then yelling, "Shaddup or I'll really give you something to cry about," worked very well.
Are you serious?????
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 18, 2016, 06:46:51 PM
Are you serious?????
Why would you think otherwise?
Spare the whip and spoil the child.
Laughing at all the "are you serious????" responses on this thread
How could you laugh at something so serious????????
How does one laugh so seriously?
(https://adfisheye.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/14_533_oboi_why_so_serious_1366x768.jpg)
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 19, 2016, 09:16:59 AM
How could you laugh at something so serious????????
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/0b6cc41b28288db5f208d7aa3b470c6d/tumblr_nz7uufbc5n1uctmgoo1_500.gif)
Quote from: mu03eng on August 19, 2016, 10:02:26 AM
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/0b6cc41b28288db5f208d7aa3b470c6d/tumblr_nz7uufbc5n1uctmgoo1_500.gif)
Hey, cool, man...
Quote from: wadesworld on August 19, 2016, 09:45:56 AM
(https://adfisheye.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/14_533_oboi_why_so_serious_1366x768.jpg)
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on August 18, 2016, 08:41:22 AM
This is it. Exactly. Look your kids are going to have it easier than you. You don't have to try to deliver similar experiences. Just make sure they work for what they earn.
Perfectly stated. I hate it when parents on one hand brag about how hard they worked so that their kids could have it easier and on the other complain about how easy their kids have it. The goal for each generation is to advance the ball down the field toward a better world. The safer the environment (from poverty, violence, etc.) the easier to accomplish that goal - as long as core values remain intact.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 18, 2016, 06:46:51 PM
How could you laugh at something so serious????????
Not laughing at what 82 said. It was actually tasteless and not really funny.
Laughing that someone on the board actually was asking if he was serious.
There's a distinction. Moving on...
Peeps here are crackin' me up.
So, if you go to a comedy club and say, Louis CK or Chris Rock says that, you don't even chuckle. You go, "Are you serious? That's so tasteless!"
For the record, I never beat my kids within an inch of their lives. That was their mother's job!
Make sure you kiss the wife and kick the dog when you get home.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on August 19, 2016, 11:36:03 AM
Make sure you kiss the wife and kick the dog when you get home.
I have a general kiss the dog and kick the wife policy.
Quote from: MU82 on August 19, 2016, 11:25:33 AM
For the record, I never beat my kids within an inch of their lives. That was their mother's job!
It's a dirty, rotten, nasty and thankless job - but somebody has to do it!
Quote from: mu03eng on August 19, 2016, 12:06:41 PM
I have a general kiss the dog and kick the wife policy.
It's generally hard to kiss the wife while kicking it dog.
Quote from: Benny B on August 19, 2016, 12:30:55 PM
It's generally hard to kiss the wife while kicking it dog.
Says who?
I predict a rise in beastiality wit some of you dudes, ai na?
Now THIS is more like it!
You know, I didn't want to have to build a wall around Scoop and make Dodds pay for it ... but I will if I have to.
This is some funny stuff. I especially like those that take everything literally.
I still don't get why 82 beat his wife and kids so often, though.
Quote from: brandx on August 19, 2016, 02:47:25 PM
This is some funny stuff. I especially like those that take everything literally.
I still don't get why 82 beat his wife and kids so often, though.
Hey man ... I never said I beat my wife. I said my wife beat my kids. After I joked about doing it.
Get yer effen facts straight!
Which facts? ALL OF THEM!
How do fuq did we get here? Lol.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 19, 2016, 04:10:17 PM
How do fuq did we get here? Lol.
I think it started with Benny and his hitting the bottle early
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 19, 2016, 04:10:17 PM
How do fuq did we get here?.
How? Two words:
EXTREME VETTING!
Quote from: Coleman on August 19, 2016, 11:15:16 AM
Not laughing at what 82 said. It was actually tasteless and not really funny.
Laughing that someone on the board actually was asking if he was serious.
There's a distinction. Moving on...
That's waaaaay too serious.
ND sucks.
Quote from: reinko on August 19, 2016, 02:26:02 PM
ALL OF THEM!
OK....................................................................................what polls?