MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Herman Cain on July 03, 2016, 10:30:08 PM
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I believe that Duane is poised for a breakout season. He should be completely healthy and he is a natural leader. Duane is well respected by the coaches and his teammates. When the game is on the line, he is the player I want to see with the ball.
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I believe that Duane is poised for a breakout season. He should be completely healthy and he is a natural leader. Duane is well respected by the coaches and his teammates. When the game is on the line, he is the player I want to see with the ball.
That's what I thought before last season, and to me, he was the most disappointing guy on the team.
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I thought he started out last season in a funk. Maybe he expected to start at point and was disappointed when he did not.
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I believe Duane played through injury all last season. Hopefully coming back healthy this year.
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Very deep backcourt this year. I think the lineup changes frequently game to game. Wojo is going to ride the hot hand. Right now, I'd slot in Traci, Haanif, Katin, JJJ and Fischer. Rowsey, Duane and Howard will need to duke it out to be the 6th man off the bench (assuming Luke isn't in foul trouble by the first TV timeout)
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Hence my signature.
Too bad it's been there for the past 3-4 years.
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I believe Duane played through injury all last season. Hopefully coming back healthy this year.
What was his injury last year?
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I believe that Duane is poised for a breakout season. He should be completely healthy and he is a natural leader. Duane is well respected by the coaches and his teammates. When the game is on the line, he is the player I want to see with the ball.
I don't agree with this analysis. But hope its true.
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I don't agree with this analysis. But hope its true.
I agree with THIS analysis.
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I'm hopeful here in year 4 on campus, Duane can show nice progress. It's almost uncanny how similar his numbers were last year vs. RS FR year. Against better competition, he just wasn't very good. Against weaker competition, he ate.
I think the performance vs. better competition can and will improve some... how much? Dunno. eFG% comp of 51.5% isn't easy, but 3FG% of 34.6% has some room to grow.. 2FG% of 51.0% is a tough comp, but against the upper half of competition, that figure was only 45.5% on 2's.. AND only 28.8% on 3's... this is where there is some room for takeoff in 2016-17...
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So the narrative went from, "Bert forced an uninjured Duane to redshirt an entire season when all it was was a month recovery for a stress fracture," to, "A year and a half after a stress fracture Duane was still playing through injury?" Got it.
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So the narrative went from, "Bert forced an uninjured Duane to redshirt an entire season when all it was was a month recovery for a stress fracture," to, "A year and a half after a stress fracture Duane was still playing through injury?" Got it.
I heard that Duane had a few nagging injuries that slowed him all last year. Don't believe it was related to his freshman year or any of that stuff. Could be completely inaccurate, but I trust the people that told me.
That said, I think Duane will be one of the most interesting storylines we have over the next 10-12 months. Will he take a step forward and continue to be a leader on this team, or will guys like Reinhardt, Rowsey, and Howard cut into his minutes? Will he graduate in the Spring, and if so, will he want to continue to chase the Marquette scoring record (McNeal had 769 points in 2 years, Wilson has 701, Hayward had 673) or will he consider a graduate transfer? Will he be the player we hoped we would see after his promising freshman year or will be stay at about the same level he was at his first two years?
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So the narrative went from, "Bert forced an uninjured Duane to redshirt an entire season when all it was was a month recovery for a stress fracture," to, "A year and a half after a stress fracture Duane was still playing through injury?" Got it.
Perhaps not the same injury?
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Will he graduate in the Spring, and if so, will he want to continue to chase the Marquette scoring record (McNeal had 769 points in 2 years, Wilson has 701, Hayward had 673) or will he consider a graduate transfer?
There is a 0% chance he will approach McNeal's record.
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Was disappointed not to see improvement last year. If something similar happens he'll be passed on the roster and be a candidate for an outbound grad transfer the year after that. Hope that's not the case.
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Duane would probably have to average 19 ppg over the next two years to be Marquette's all time leading scorer. Zero chance that happens.
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Zero chance? Sorry, but disagree. It may not be likely, but if Marquette played in three Big East Tourney and three NCAA Tournament games the next two years, that would lead to 74 games played. Duane would have to average just under 17.4 ppg to pass McNeal.
I'll grant unlikely, but not impossible.
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I'm not a huge fan of his game. I'm sure he's a nice kid, but he's terribly inefficient, inconsistent and can't play defense. I don't see how he breaks out when Marquette is adding two players that are much better than he is. I see his numbers decreasing, he couldn't even break the starting lineup on last years team.
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Fine. Not a zero chance. I will peg it at about .01%. Unless he is *that* much better, there are too many players and not enough minutes. Players like McNeal and Diener were getting 34+ mpg when they put up 18 ppg. Duane is very likely not going to play enough.
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Jerel had to make a big jump to get to 1985. Vander made a bigger jump than Wilson would have to make. The escalation it would take would be slightly higher than the one DJO went through. It's hardly unprecedented. If he averages over 16 ppg this year, it'll be something we'd be watching for his senior year. That's far from impossible, and I think it would be a big talking point in about 7-8 months.
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Jerel had to make a big jump to get to 1985. Vander made a bigger jump than Wilson would have to make. The escalation it would take would be slightly higher than the one DJO went through. It's hardly unprecedented. If he averages over 16 ppg this year, it'll be something we'd be watching for his senior year. That's far from impossible, and I think it would be a big talking point in about 7-8 months.
Brew, you're dreaming. Duane probably won't even start. Hanni passed him on the depth chart as a Frosh. DU was a redshirt Soph last year, 3rd year in a college program. He needs to play great ball to earn the 6th man spot.
Now I'm not saying he won't get minutes but to think that he'll be averaging 15-18 a game is a real stretch. I'd peg it more like 10.
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Brew, you're dreaming. Duane probably won't even start. Hanni passed him on the depth chart as a Frosh. DU was a redshirt Soph last year, 3rd year in a college program. He needs to play great ball to earn the 6th man spot.
Now I'm not saying he won't get minutes but to think that he'll be averaging 15-18 a game is a real stretch. I'd peg it more like 10.
Duane is absolutely beloved by the coaches. He has a complete green light to shoot and he will be expected to be a leader of the team. He took 307 shots each of the last two years and I would expect him to get that same amount this year. The key will be to make a higher percentage. He also needs to move his free throw percentage up significantly.
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Duane won't beat Jerel'a scoring record but there is someone on the roster who will have a very good chance.
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Duane won't beat Jerel'a scoring record but there is someone on the roster who will have a very good chance.
Cheatham?
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Duane won't beat Jerel'a scoring record but there is someone on the roster who will have a very good chance.
+1
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Cheatham?
Markus, a''ina?
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HE had he stayed, hey?
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Cheatham?
Two years ago people thought Duane could challenge it. Last year, everyone was saying Cheatham. This time next year, people could be saying Howard. Or Cheatham, or Duane, or someone else entirely, or none of the above. If anyone who is returning in 2017 puts up 16+ ppg (other than Rowsey), they'll be in the conversation.
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Two years ago people thought Duane could challenge it. Last year, everyone was saying Cheatham. This time next year, people could be saying Howard. Or Cheatham, or Duane, or someone else entirely, or none of the above. If anyone who is returning in 2017 puts up 16+ ppg (other than Rowsey), they'll be in the conversation.
I think Cheatham has a legitamate shot. Good shooter, good slasher and really good free throw shooter. Howard, I really just don't see it. Cheatham is kinda like Jerel, just with a much better shot.
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I think Cheatham has a legitamate shot. Good shooter, good slasher and really good free throw shooter. Howard, I really just don't see it. Cheatham is kinda like Jerel, just with a much better shot.
FT% no matta
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FT% no matta
Maybe not from a micro standpoint, but at a macro level if you're the best free throw shooter on the team, at end of the game when you're trying to ice it, your teammates are gonna try to get you the ball often.
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Maybe not from a micro standpoint, but at a macro level if you're the best free throw shooter on the team, at end of the game when you're trying to ice it, your teammates are gonna try to get you the ball often.
Great point.
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FT% no matta
In this case, it does. Jerel got to the line 515 times in his career, with 72 of those coming his freshman year. His 71.7% accuracy converted that to 369 points. Take those away, and he's not the all-time scoring leader.
Haanif got to the line 122 times as a freshman. I doubt he'll continue to get to the line at a 170% higher rate than Jerel, but if he can get to the line the same 515 times (and you'd expect it to be more) his 82.0% accuracy (assuming it didn't change in 4 years) would translate to 422 points. When it comes to all-time scorer, 53 points could easily be the difference between first and second.
If he did maintain that 170% and 82.0%, he would finish with 718 points at the line, or 349 more than McNeal got from the charity stripe. That difference taken frmo McNeal would drop him from 1st to 13th.
Who knows what will happen in the next 2-3 years, but when it comes to a 140+ game career and hundreds of free throw attempts, 10.3% could easily be the deciding factor in who is Marquette's all-time scoring leader.
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Great analysis brew.
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In this case, it does. Jerel got to the line 515 times in his career, with 72 of those coming his freshman year. His 71.7% accuracy converted that to 369 points. Take those away, and he's not the all-time scoring leader.
Haanif got to the line 122 times as a freshman. I doubt he'll continue to get to the line at a 170% higher rate than Jerel, but if he can get to the line the same 515 times (and you'd expect it to be more) his 82.0% accuracy (assuming it didn't change in 4 years) would translate to 422 points. When it comes to all-time scorer, 53 points could easily be the difference between first and second.
If he did maintain that 170% and 82.0%, he would finish with 718 points at the line, or 349 more than McNeal got from the charity stripe. That difference taken frmo McNeal would drop him from 1st to 13th.
Who knows what will happen in the next 2-3 years, but when it comes to a 140+ game career and hundreds of free throw attempts, 10.3% could easily be the deciding factor in who is Marquette's all-time scoring leader.
More fun with numbers:
If Haanif shot the same FT% as Rel did as a freshman, Haanif would have scored 8.5 fewer points.
If Haanif shot the same eFG% as Rel did as a freshman, Haanif would have scored 43 fewer points.
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In this case, it does. Jerel got to the line 515 times in his career, with 72 of those coming his freshman year. His 71.7% accuracy converted that to 369 points. Take those away, and he's not the all-time scoring leader.
He didn't say free throws didn't matter. He said FT%. You can't counter that by simply removing all his free throws from the equation.
More fun with numbers:
Right. That 34 point difference over four years is 1.7% of the amount needed to get to 1985. While not completely irrelevant, it isn't very significant.
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Let's put it this way....someone who will be on the roster this coming season, will break Jerel's record in my opinion.
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Let's put it this way....someone who will be on the roster this coming season, will break Jerel's record in my opinion.
I'm guessing Matt.
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He didn't say free throws didn't matter. He said FT%. You can't counter that by simply removing all his free throws from the equation.
That's fine, but if Haanif were to get to the line more frequently and shoot a higher percentage, and again, I specifically stated I didn't think he'd make the 718 free throws, that difference is immense.
Right. That 34 point difference over four years is 1.7% of the amount needed to get to 1985. While not completely irrelevant, it isn't very significant.
You dispute removing all free throws, that's fair, but you can't look at the total points scored and say it's 1.7% and think that's all equal. If we're talking about anyone getting into the top-10 of scoring, there's a difference of 322 points from 1st to 10th. Don't know where you're getting 34 from, but the 53 point difference (assuming equal FT attempts) over the course of a career is a 16.5% difference when it comes to separating guys in the top-10, which is rather significant.
More fun with numbers:
If Haanif shot the same FT% as Rel did as a freshman, Haanif would have scored 8.5 fewer points.
If Haanif shot the same eFG% as Rel did as a freshman, Haanif would have scored 43 fewer points.
Yes, we all know eFG% is more important than FT%. But discarding FT% when you are factoring in 140+ games and hundreds of trips to the line over the course of a career is a fool's errand. If Haanif could even maintain 120% of McNeal's attempts at a 10% higher rate, that would give him a 138 point edge at the line over the course of his career. In a grouping of players separated by 322 total points, that's pretty darn significant (42.9%).
Over a game, season, or career, eFG% will obviously trump FT%. But when you're talking career, it all matters.
Also...nice job tilting the goal posts by using only freshman year numbers for Jerel. Highest career FT% season and lowest career eFG% helps further slant the argument.
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I'm hopeful here in year 4 on campus, Duane can show nice progress. It's almost uncanny how similar his numbers were last year vs. RS FR year. Against better competition, he just wasn't very good. Against weaker competition, he ate.
I think the performance vs. better competition can and will improve some... how much? Dunno. eFG% comp of 51.5% isn't easy, but 3FG% of 34.6% has some room to grow.. 2FG% of 51.0% is a tough comp, but against the upper half of competition, that figure was only 45.5% on 2's.. AND only 28.8% on 3's... this is where there is some room for takeoff in 2016-17...
His offensive numbers were eerily similar, but it was on the defensive side of the ball that I thought he really fell apart. He simply couldn't keep anyone in front of him, at all. Anyone he was guarding was able to drive the lane at will it seemed.
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I think a number of other players are more likely to have a big jump — such as Jajuan, Haanif or Luke. I'm not sure we need Duane to have a big jump, for that matter. If he can boost the 3-point percentage a bit, cut down on turnovers, provide some senior leadership, and play with focus and energy, that may be enough given all the options we have in the backcourt.
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I think a number of other players are more likely to have a big jump — such as Jajuan, Haanif or Luke. I'm not sure we need Duane to have a big jump, for that matter. If he can boost the 3-point percentage a bit, cut down on turnovers, provide some senior leadership, and play with focus and energy, that may be enough given all the options we have in the backcourt.
I couldn't agree more. And depending on how well he does each of them will determine how many minutes he gets.
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We're quick to jump on JJJ's last 15ish games of the season and project that he'll breakout this season by putting up those numbers consistently. Yet, Duane's entire season was viewed as a disappointment despite the fact that his play and efficiency were excellent down the stretch. The increase in production wasn't as noticeable for Duane as for JJJ because JJJ was largely a non-factor in the first half of the season.
In Duane's first 18 games of the season (against mostly weak opp), he averaged 12.2 points on 40% shooting and 32.4% from 3 with 2.2 TOs.
In Duane's last 15 games of the season (post-Xavier), he averaged 10.9 points on 46.7% shooting and 39.2% from 3 with 1.9 TOs.
Sure, his points were down but his PPS was 1.19 thru the first 18 and increased to 1.34 in the final 15. He was playing basically the same number of minutes while taking fewer shots (down from 10.3/gm to 8.1/gm) and better shots. I'd take those numbers from Duane again this season.
As a sidenote, Duane fractured his wrist in the 2015 BET and missed several weeks in the offseason.
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No doubt Duane improved his performance over the course of the year. And I'm not yet convinced that JjJ has surpassed him in every way or that he'll maintain that level of play witnessed down the stretch. What I am convinced of is that Hanni is a budding star and that I expect him to start every game and log what will approach max minutes. Said another way, it's Hanni that'll have the breakout year in my estimation.
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We're quick to jump on JJJ's last 15ish games of the season and project that he'll breakout this season by putting up those numbers consistently. Yet, Duane's entire season was viewed as a disappointment despite the fact that his play and efficiency were excellent down the stretch. The increase in production wasn't as noticeable for Duane as for JJJ because JJJ was largely a non-factor in the first half of the season.
In Duane's first 18 games of the season (against mostly weak opp), he averaged 12.2 points on 40% shooting and 32.4% from 3 with 2.2 TOs.
In Duane's last 15 games of the season (post-Xavier), he averaged 10.9 points on 46.7% shooting and 39.2% from 3 with 1.9 TOs.
Sure, his points were down but his PPS was 1.19 thru the first 18 and increased to 1.34 in the final 15. He was playing basically the same number of minutes while taking fewer shots (down from 10.3/gm to 8.1/gm) and better shots. I'd take those numbers from Duane again this season.
As a sidenote, Duane fractured his wrist in the 2015 BET and missed several weeks in the offseason.
Or if we shift things by ONE GAME and talk eFG% (what relevance does FG% have?)...
Wilson's first 17 games -- eFG% of 52.1%; last 16 games -- eFG% of 50.7%
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Or if we shift things by ONE GAME and talk eFG% (what relevance does FG% have?)...
Wilson's first 17 games -- eFG% of 52.1%; last 16 games -- eFG% of 50.7%
Throw the Xavier game out completely and his eFG% was 52.1% in the first 17 and 54.9% in the last 15. You want to go TS%? 55.2% pre-X and 57.3% post-X.
No matter how you attempt to spin it, it doesn't changes the fact that he was much better in the final 15 games than in the first 17-18.
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Throw the Xavier game out completely and his eFG% was 52.1% in the first 17 and 54.9% in the last 15. You want to go TS%? 55.2% pre-X and 57.3% post-X.
No matter how you attempt to spin it, it doesn't changes the fact that he was much better in the final 15 games than in the first 17-18.
I'm far more comfortable with you discussing the 54.9% v 52.1% instead of 46.7% v 39.2%.
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I just hope that Duane transitions well to a bench role, with fewer minutes, but probably as the main scoring option when he's in the game. Can't see him starting, and really don't trust his D at the end of the game. Yes, he has the nads to take big shots, but it's a two way game. Hope he can keep his head up while he transitions to a role player - scoring focused super sub.
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I just hope that Duane transitions well to a bench role, with fewer minutes, but probably as the main scoring option when he's in the game. Can't see him starting, and really don't trust his D at the end of the game. Yes, he has the nads to take big shots, but it's a two way game. Hope he can keep his head up while he transitions to a role player - scoring focused super sub.
This whole thing about Duane seems to be where message board types fall in love with the new guy (Howard) or hear whispers about the abilities of the transfer (Rowsey), when in reality the guy whose played a lot over the past two years is probably still going to play a lot. (Duane)
I would be shocked if, barring injury, his minutes were significantly less than in prior years.
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This whole thing about Duane seems to be where message board types fall in love with the new guy (Howard) or hear whispers about the abilities of the transfer (Rowsey), when in reality the guy whose played a lot over the past two years is probably still going to play a lot. (Duane)
I would be shocked if, barring injury, his minutes were significantly less than in prior years.
I agree. Duane is a very solid player. He may not have developed last year like we would like, but he still put up very solid numbers. Expecting a freshman or transfer to come in and displace his raw ability and proven success is a bit absurd.
Duane has the advantage of being able to grow from averaging 12 ppg against D1 competition in a system he has played in for 2 years; the other players have to adapt to that new level of competition, learn a new system, adapt to a new University setting and grow from high school ball.
I'll take the proven player first and expect his performance to improve and his minutes to stay relatively constant...28 mpg.
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This whole thing about Duane seems to be where message board types fall in love with the new guy (Howard) or hear whispers about the abilities of the transfer (Rowsey), when in reality the guy whose played a lot over the past two years is probably still going to play a lot. (Duane)
I would be shocked if, barring injury, his minutes were significantly less than in prior years.
Duane has the confidence of the coaches.
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This whole thing about Duane seems to be where message board types fall in love with the new guy (Howard) or hear whispers about the abilities of the transfer (Rowsey), when in reality the guy whose played a lot over the past two years is probably still going to play a lot. (Duane)
I would be shocked if, barring injury, his minutes were significantly less than in prior years.
I'm sure I'll get roasted for this, but I just don't like Duane's game. Never have. I don't like his shoot-first mentality and lack of hitting the open man. Don't like his dropped shoulders when he gets taken out. I would rather play the right way, lose and know that we will be getting better the next year because of it. Duane has made some shots that took balls, but a lot of them were dumb shots that went in. I'm not going off of some advanced metrics or formulas, just my eyes. I like Cheatham's game. Similarly, I like the way Howard plays. I can see them growing "together." I just watch Duane and think he is a lone wolf who always "has to get his." Maybe maturity takes care of that, I don't know. But I would love to see Markus and Haanif get a ton of the minutes together. Just my opinion.
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I'm sure I'll get roasted for this, but I just don't like Duane's game. Never have. I don't like his shoot-first mentality and lack of hitting the open man. Don't like his dropped shoulders when he gets taken out. I would rather play the right way, lose and know that we will be getting better the next year because of it. Duane has made some shots that took balls, but a lot of them were dumb shots that went in. I'm not going off of some advanced metrics or formulas, just my eyes. I like Cheatham's game. Similarly, I like the way Howard plays. I can see them growing "together." I just watch Duane and think he is a lone wolf who always "has to get his." Maybe maturity takes care of that, I don't know. But I would love to see Markus and Haanif get a ton of the minutes together. Just my opinion.
You probably will get roasted by some. I have when I have said very similar things about Duane.
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I'm sure I'll get roasted for this, but I just don't like Duane's game. Never have. I don't like his shoot-first mentality and lack of hitting the open man. Don't like his dropped shoulders when he gets taken out. I would rather play the right way, lose and know that we will be getting better the next year because of it. Duane has made some shots that took balls, but a lot of them were dumb shots that went in. I'm not going off of some advanced metrics or formulas, just my eyes. I like Cheatham's game. Similarly, I like the way Howard plays. I can see them growing "together." I just watch Duane and think he is a lone wolf who always "has to get his." Maybe maturity takes care of that, I don't know. But I would love to see Markus and Haanif get a ton of the minutes together. Just my opinion.
Duane has the coaches confidence. This article after a poor shooting performance demonstrates it. So he will always be a gunner.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/extra-gym-time-paying-off-for-marquettes-duane-wilson-b99659145z1-366644981.html
I think his minutes will not change and he may have better shot selection this year, although I have nothing to base that assumption on.
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What the hell is "playing the right way" nowadays? Curry and Klay jack up shots from pretty much half court but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Suddenly being aggressive is a bad thing? I mean, it's not like we had a surplus of guys who could score the ball last year.
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What the hell is "playing the right way" nowadays? Curry and Klay jack up shots from pretty much half court but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Suddenly being aggressive is a bad thing? I mean, it's not like we had a surplus of guys who could score the ball last year.
When it comes down to the clutch Duane is fearless.
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What the hell is "playing the right way" nowadays? Curry and Klay jack up shots from pretty much half court but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Suddenly being aggressive is a bad thing? I mean, it's not like we had a surplus of guys who could score the ball last year.
You're comparing Duane's shot selection to two of the greatest long range shooters ever?
Um .... if Duane was even in the same universe as those two, Wojo would let him shoot 25 times a game.
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I'm sure I'll get roasted for this, but I just don't like Duane's game. Never have. I don't like his shoot-first mentality and lack of hitting the open man.
Duane definitely has bonehead moments. There are quite a few times he makes me want to throw my remote at the screen. But I love the fearlessness. I love that he could go 0/7 and still will want the ball with full confidence on the final possession.
The decision making will need to improve for him to keep his minutes, but he's not the first kid who didn't have it all figured out as a sophomore. I'm cautiously optimistic, but also glad that we have a wealth of options.
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What the hell is "playing the right way" nowadays? Curry and Klay jack up shots from pretty much half court but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Suddenly being aggressive is a bad thing? I mean, it's not like we had a surplus of guys who could score the ball last year.
To me "playing the right way" means hitting the open man in rhythm and making one more pass. It means not taking stupid shots or forcing it. It means feeding the hot hand (that's not your own) and it means being a great teammate whether you are in the game, or coming out.
The "clutch" thing you guys are talking about also makes me laugh. He took a ton of horrible shots last year that had Wojo fuming. He hit a few at the end. I would personally rather have a squad trained to selflessly make the extra pass and miss that open shot than to hit a few lucky ones. That is what I mean to "play the right way." I would rather sacrifice "lucky" or "clutch" shots today and build a great team to win tomorrow and beyond. My vision for MU is to get to a Final Four sooner than later. Having guys who play for the back of the jersey more than the front is temporary enjoyment. Duane has been gunning since HS and my feeling now is that having a gunner who doesn't make others better is not a good thing for my long-term vision of success.
You don't have to agree with me, I just don't like how he plays. He is definitely talented, but IMO, he will hold back the development of this team if he plays a major role.
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I agree. Duane is a very solid player. He may not have developed last year like we would like, but he still put up very solid numbers. Expecting a freshman or transfer to come in and displace his raw ability and proven success is a bit absurd.
Duane has the advantage of being able to grow from averaging 12 ppg against D1 competition in a system he has played in for 2 years; the other players have to adapt to that new level of competition, learn a new system, adapt to a new University setting and grow from high school ball.
I'll take the proven player first and expect his performance to improve and his minutes to stay relatively constant...28 mpg.
Well said Forgetful! Breakout year or not, Duane will be a key contributor this season. I don't see his stats growing significantly but that's ok and probably expected given the composition of the roster. Even as 6th man, who will realistically displace his minutes? And as you say, his experience in the system and leadership will be called upon often. As much as I love JjJ, who we all I think expect big things from next year, Duane is a more natural leader. That said, Freeport makes some very valid points on Duane's negatives that I can't argue with. Hopefully the coaching staff can reign that in this season as he'll have more options to distribute to. The smart $ on a true breakout season is being placed on Sacar!
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The smart $ on a true breakout season is being placed on Sacar!
Well if he does have a breakout season you would look very smart, because there is no reason to bet any money on that.
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I am going to hate myself for saying this, but our depth in the backcourt is enough that I hope Wojo starts using the Bo Ryan method and
using taxpayer money to bop a masseuse swap a player out for a teaching moment upon a turnover or bad shot. His players practically sat themselves down when they did - senior leaders included
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The smart $ on a true breakout season is being placed on Sacar!
I don't know about the smart money, but I'm in his corner. Hope he gets a chance to play the 2 & 3, really doesn't have the height to play the 4. Maybe this will be the year that shows what he can bring.
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The smart $ on a true breakout season is being placed on Sacar!
Honestly I am having trouble seeing where he gets much playing time. And if he does, it will likely be based more on his defensive abilities and energy more than anything else. Think the role that Wally played last year.
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Some fans still have it in their heads that Duane is a PG and needs to be a play-maker. That's not his role. He's a scorer. He has no conscience and big stones. His biggest strength is his ability to put the ball in the basket. That's his job. He may have the build of a PG but he's not one. Think Eddie House (the NBA version). Sure, he's going to take some bad shots and his "efficiency" isn't always going to be as high as the statheads like to see but that comes with the territory. The sooner fans accept that that's Duane's role, the sooner they'll start to appreciate what he brings to the floor.
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Some fans still have it in their heads that Duane is a PG and needs to be a play-maker. That's not his role. He's a scorer. He has no conscience and big stones. His biggest strength is his ability to put the ball in the basket. That's his job. He may have the build of a PG but he's not one. Think Eddie House (the NBA version). Sure, he's going to take some bad shots and his "efficiency" isn't always going to be as high as the statheads like to see but that comes with the territory. The sooner fans accept that that's Duane's role, the sooner they'll start to appreciate what he brings to the floor.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your points, Merritts, but he just isn't a good enough shooter to play the role of a shooter.
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your points, Merritts, but he just isn't a good enough shooter to play the role of a shooter.
He's not a shooter. He's a scorer.
NBA Eddie House was the example I used. I fully understand that NCAA-NBA is not entirely apples to apples, but I'm actually surprised how similar their numbers are.
In his 2 years at MU, Duane averaged 16.6 pts/40 with a FG% of 41.0%, eFG% of 49.4%
In 11 NBA seasons, House averaged 17.2 pts/40 with a FG% of 40.9%, eFG% of 49.0%
Duane isn't the type of player you build an offense around and he's ideally suited to be a guy who can provide quick points off the bench. When he's hot, he can carry a team on a given night. When he's cold, he's going to be picking splinters. Most of the time, he'll be somewhere in between.
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I'm sure I'll get roasted for this, but I just don't like Duane's game. Never have. I don't like his shoot-first mentality and lack of hitting the open man. Don't like his dropped shoulders when he gets taken out. I would rather play the right way, lose and know that we will be getting better the next year because of it. Duane has made some shots that took balls, but a lot of them were dumb shots that went in. I'm not going off of some advanced metrics or formulas, just my eyes. I like Cheatham's game. Similarly, I like the way Howard plays. I can see them growing "together." I just watch Duane and think he is a lone wolf who always "has to get his." Maybe maturity takes care of that, I don't know. But I would love to see Markus and Haanif get a ton of the minutes together. Just my opinion.
Spot on, bro, hey?
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To me "playing the right way" means hitting the open man in rhythm and making one more pass. It means not taking stupid shots or forcing it. It means feeding the hot hand (that's not your own) and it means being a great teammate whether you are in the game, or coming out.
You mean like not taking early threes when ahead with under a minute left?
He's always hunting his own shot. I'm hoping he accepts whatever role the staff has in mind for him.
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You mean like not taking early threes when ahead with under a minute left?
Exactly. But happy that I now know that Duane isn't a point and that he is a scorer.
Watched the WI Swing 16U at Homestead this morning. They are the perfect example of what I am talking about. Probably one, maybe two D1 guys there. Their fundamentals and IQ just bore you into submission. Their points, shooters and bigs always make one more pass. No way in hell one of those kids take a shot under a minute left with the lead unless it's a wide open back door layup. IQ too high and they no what's at stake. Never get a sense they care at all who scores. That is the kind of team I want. And it's not like I'm against DW, I'll be rooting for him, but I am hoping he let's the game come to him rather than forcing it. And if he loses minutes in order to figure that out, I'm all for it.
Almost forgot -- I am also glad that I know Wojo has confidence in Duane.
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Exactly. But happy that I now know that Duane isn't a point and that he is a scorer.
Watched the WI Swing 16U at Homestead this morning. They are the perfect example of what I am talking about. Probably one, maybe two D1 guys there. Their fundamentals and IQ just bore you into submission. Their points, shooters and bigs always make one more pass. No way in hell one of those kids take a shot under a minute left with the lead unless it's a wide open back door layup. IQ too high and they no what's at stake. Never get a sense they care at all who scores. That is the kind of team I want. And it's not like I'm against DW, I'll be rooting for him, but I am hoping he let's the game come to him rather than forcing it. And if he loses minutes in order to figure that out, I'm all for it.
Almost forgot -- I am also glad that I know Wojo has confidence in Duane.
My view is that Duane has it in him to embrace the fundamentals your describing. That attitude, in part, is why I believe he is poised to move his game to a higher level.
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My view is that Duane has it in him to embrace the fundamentals your describing. That attitude, in part, is why I believe he is poised to move his game to a higher level.
It's his fourth year in the program. If it hasn't happened by now...
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It's his fourth year in the program. If it hasn't happened by now...
Well I don't know that I necessarily agree with that. The first year he was injured. Then he had his coach leave. He had a good freshman year, but didn't make much progress sophomore year. Let's see how it goes. His game can continue to grow.
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It's his fourth year in the program. If it hasn't happened by now...
Correct.
We all know that saying about spots and stripes with leopards and zebras. Or something.
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What the hell is "playing the right way" nowadays? Curry and Klay jack up shots from pretty much half court but I don't see anyone complaining about that. Suddenly being aggressive is a bad thing? I mean, it's not like we had a surplus of guys who could score the ball last year.
First, I hate the phrase "score the ball." A pet peeve of mine. I'm not sure who started tacking on "the ball," but he should be shot. A player isn't scoring the ball; he's scoring points. I hate the phrase "golf shot," too. Yes, Mickelson is golfing; he didn't just execute a bowling shot!
"Score the ball." It's like saying "Patrick Kane can really score the puck."
There. Rant finished. I feel better already.
Now ... Duane ...
I really, really wanted to like him from the moment I heard we got a commitment from him. A 50% shooter from the arc in HS? Yes, thank you! A Milwaukee kid who would help us recruit others? Love it!
He certainly has had his moments: that shot against Providence last year being No. 1, and some nice play as a RS frosh when we had little else going. But he mostly frustrated me as an MU fan last season.
I almost always knew he was going to fire one up the next time down the court if he had gone 3 straight trips without shooting. He has an "It's my turn now" mentality ... whether he is open for a quality shot or not.
Not an especially good passer, ballhandler or defender, and a mostly awful shot selection. Plus, a bit too fast to sulk.
I'm no insider, so I'm just seeing it as a fan, like most others here. What am I missing? (I know, I know, I'm missing that when he gets hot he can really score the ball.)
Given all the additions to the roster, it's near impossible for me to see this as a breakout season for Duane.
I've been wrong before, though, so we'll see!
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Well I don't know that I necessarily agree with that. The first year he was injured. Then he had his coach leave. He had a good freshman year, but didn't make much progress sophomore year. Let's see how it goes. His game can continue to grow.
While true, I'd argue he's down to his last attempt. I see one of two things happening this year and they might be mutually exclusive. Either he makes significant progress and plays a very major role (6th man or better) or he is a graduate transfer candidate following the season. If Rowsey AND Markus pass him on the depth chart.....