I'm starting a new, Jamie free thread.
Looking forward to one heck of a game.
I'm going out there.....Cadavers by 2.
Good luck, chili.
No fan base should have to endure a lifetime of misery. I'm rooting for the Cavs (and I picked them, albeit in 6, before the series).
LeBron goes for a triple double, Cleveland ends the drought.
Warriors
Quote from: real chili 83 on June 19, 2016, 07:43:18 AM
I'm starting a new, Jamie free thread.
Looking forward to one heck of a game.
I'm going out there.....Cadavers by 2.
If Lue is able to fight the impulse to play Kevin Love for 30+ minutes, the Cavs stand a good chance. But I am going with GS
Cavs win. Kevin Love hits game winner. Gets all the high fives.
Well if they crawled back all the way to game 7, the Cavs better win. Was hoping this series would be long over. Work is going ton be the absolute worst tonight.
Klunk
Why is Harrison Barnes playing at all?
Competitive first half.
Klay's gotta hit a shot or they're in trouble.
I am rooting for Golden State. My motives are purely MU selfish. I do not want to see Lebron get any titles without D Wade. Great legacy for D Wade is always better for MU.
LBJ playing too passively.
That was impressive.
Halfway through the 4th and Lue takes out both Love and Kyrie. GSW scores 5 straight to go up two. Game over?
Wow.
It ain't dull.
Glad I'm thinking into this. Tried watching a few games this series and they were so lopsided it was boring. Tonight, well this is pretty much basketball porn. Really enjoyable to watch, don't even care who wins.
Wow. Block was outstanding.
Been a heckuva game to finish a heckuva series.
City of Cleveland is pooping their collective pants right now.
Quote from: tower912 on June 19, 2016, 10:32:15 AM
LeBron goes for a triple double, Cleveland ends the drought.
Bump. In the now locked thread, I predicted that Irving and Love would be the difference this year. Of course, I DID predict Cleveland in 6. Ah, well, missed one.
Lebron would not accept losing. Very impressive .
That dunk would have been fairly epic.
Couple of couch fires in Cleveland reported.
Great win by the Cavaliers. Anything that makes the city of Cleveland shine and Wadesworld look like a tool is a win. Great great win. Lebron James, a player unlike any other.
Quote from: warriorOregon on June 19, 2016, 09:43:17 PM
Great win by the Cavaliers. Anything that makes the city of Cleveland shine and Wadesworld look like a tool is a win. Great great win. Lebron James, a player unlike any other.
"HI EVERYONE!!! PLEASE LOOK AT ME!!! HELLO???!!!???"
Happy for Shumpert but the rest of the cavs can go buzz off.
Quote from: warriorOregon on June 19, 2016, 09:43:17 PM
Great win by the Cavaliers. Anything that makes the city of Cleveland shine and Wadesworld look like a tool is a win. Great great win. Lebron James, a player unlike any other.
The Cavs winning makes me look like a tool? Lol okay chicos. I'm sure there are plenty things that make me look like a tool, but I never considered having the Cavs win a title would be one of those. You're right, no doubt. Enjoy the PNW bud. Got a dog sitter while you're up north?
Quote from: warriorOregon on June 19, 2016, 09:43:17 PM
Great win by the Cavaliers. Anything that makes the city of Cleveland shine and Wadesworld look like a tool is a win. Great great win. Lebron James, a player unlike any other.
You have relatives in Cleveland, no?
Quote from: tower912 on June 19, 2016, 10:32:15 AM
LeBron goes for a triple double, Cleveland ends the drought.
This ranks with the Bambino's called shot against the Cubbies. Well done, Tower!
Lebron's block and Kyrie's three... Fun stuff.
Quote from: warriorOregon on June 19, 2016, 09:43:17 PM
Great win by the Cavaliers. Anything that makes the city of Cleveland shine and Wadesworld look like a tool is a win. Great great win. Lebron James, a player unlike any other.
By the way, how was Vegas? Lots of back and forth for you. I'd think it'd be easier to do something like SoCal to Vegas to Oregon and back home or SoCal to Oregon to Vegas and back home. Interesting choice going So Cal to Oregon to Vegas to Oregon and then maybe back home? What part of Oregon? That was my favorite place I've visited. Do you have a back yard we could share some beers over there like you did for hoopaloop?
@DanWetzel
LeBron James last three games 36.3 points, 11.6 rebounds, 9.7 assists to win three Finals games while facing elimination.
@DanWetzel
Cleveland held Golden State scoreless the final 4:39 of the game
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 19, 2016, 09:52:08 PM
This ranks with the Bambino's called shot against the Cubbies. Well done, Tower!
Well, LeBron only gets the easy game 7 triple doubles.
Quote from: warriorOregon on June 19, 2016, 09:43:17 PM
Great win by the Cavaliers. Anything that makes the city of Cleveland shine and Wadesworld look like a tool is a win. Great great win. Lebron James, a player unlike any other.
Back from Vegas, eh?
Cleveland only wins the easy championships.
After the Browns won their 1964 NFL championship they made it back to the title game a year later. beaten by an injury riddled Packer team. Held brown to 50 yards rushing. Taylor gained 96 and Hornung had 105. Brown's last game. Last year before the Super bowl.
Everyone's talking about the triple double and LeBron's block. I'm just here in shock that I was able to witness LeBron knock down a free throw mere seconds after his right arm was amputated.
Very happy for Cleveland and also amazed by both LeBron and Kyrie.
Lost in the LeBron love post-game -- and he deserves plenty -- was the fact that Irving made the winning 3 right in Curry's grille. Which was fitting in that Irving outplayed Curry all series.
As I've said elsewhere, I'm a huge Curry fan. But as long as LeBron is in his prime, given all the ways he can impact a game, there's only one best basketball player in the world. And his name ain't Steph.
I would love to hear one more time how LeBron doesn't make those around him better. Too funny. And also how these Warriors are better than the 1990s Bulls.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 19, 2016, 09:50:26 PM
You have relatives in Cleveland, no?
No. Just friends. He's got lots and lots and lots of friends.
Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2016, 10:34:00 PM
And also how these Warriors are better than the 1990s Bulls.
In a twinkling they went from being allegedly the greatest team of all time to just a fart in the wind.
Kudos to the Cavs. LeBron and Irving stepped it up big-time.
Quote from: Mutaman on June 19, 2016, 10:59:18 PM
In a twinkling they went from being allegedly the greatest team of all time to just a fart in the wind.
That's rough ... and not really true.
They were a great team. They just weren't the greatest ever.
Even if they had won tonight, I wouldn't have thought they were the greatest ever. Now it's simply easier to support that opinion.
These Warriors are basketball's version of the 2007 New England Patriots ... except Steph Curry, as wonderful as he is, has not accomplished anything close to what Tom Brady has.
Quote from: MU82 on June 19, 2016, 11:05:24 PM
That's rough ... and not really true.
They were a great team. They just weren't the greatest ever.
I guess you could call the 85 Bears a "great" team too. But, in the big picture, like GSW, they were just a one year wonder.
So is next season the last?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 19, 2016, 10:15:43 PM
Everyone's talking about the triple double and LeBron's block. I'm just here in shock that I was able to witness LeBron knock down a free throw mere seconds after his right arm was amputated.
Smart play. Buys himself a few seconds.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 19, 2016, 10:15:43 PM
Everyone's talking about the triple double and LeBron's block. I'm just here in shock that I was able to witness LeBron knock down a free throw mere seconds after his right arm was amputated.
Anybody who has ever been hurt playing sports knows that there often is an "initial shock" when sharp pain is felt.
A couple years ago, I went up for a rebound and came down on another player's foot. For about 3 minutes, I was certain I had a broken ankle. The pain was intense. I stayed on the ground, caught my breath, tried to relax, slowly got up, walked around for a couple minutes and realized I would survive.
My foot was never in danger of being "amputated," but it did take me a few minutes to realize that I hadn't suffered a serious injury and I could keep playing.
Of course, that is a logical response to what happened in this situation with LeBron. It's much easier for his haters to attack him because he didn't leap right up from that incredibly hard foul. (I believe the foul was hard but clean. I also believe that had LeBron committed it, many would be ripping him for it.)
I guess when you can't rip LeBron for choking or losing or being part of a dopey televised decision or whatever, it's easy to question his pain tolerance and manhood.
Six straight NBA Finals, three titles with two different franchises including one that had never won a title, three Finals MVPs, back-to-back 41-point games followed by a triple-double on the road in Game 7 to erase a 3-1 series deficit to "the greatest team ever," etc, etc, etc.
What a bum! Clearly, he doesn't make those around him better and isn't a top-10 all-time player.
Quote from: Mutaman on June 19, 2016, 11:18:01 PM
I guess you could call the 85 Bears a "great" team too. But, in the big picture, like GSW, they were just a one year wonder.
1) The mid-80s Bears should have won more rings but the 1985 team was still the greatest single-season team in NFL history.
2) Golden State's run isn't over. They're still a young team that isn't going anywhere for a while.
Congrats to the Cavs. They're a flawed team who happens to have the best player since Jordan on their roster. That takes nothing away from their title, but does speak to how great LeBron was in the playoffs.
LeBron got met at the rim by Green, who committed a hard, clean, necessary foul. He landed awkwardly on his right wrist. Anybody who has ever played the game (or any competitive sport for that matter) knows that sometimes there is initial pain from a hard fall. The first few seconds are spent assessing whether or not it is merely pain or a problem. LeBron did what anybody would have done. You're grasping at anything to criticize. You're wrong.
Wow! That was amazing! It's just really cool for me to have spent the evening on Father's Day with my wife and all four of my kids watching that game. We'll remember it forever. Wow.
Quote from: MU82 on June 20, 2016, 08:37:05 AM
Anybody who has ever been hurt playing sports knows that there often is an "initial shock" when sharp pain is felt.
A couple years ago, I went up for a rebound and came down on another player's foot. For about 3 minutes, I was certain I had a broken ankle. The pain was intense. I stayed on the ground, caught my breath, tried to relax, slowly got up, walked around for a couple minutes and realized I would survive.
My foot was never in danger of being "amputated," but it did take me a few minutes to realize that I hadn't suffered a serious injury and I could keep playing.
Of course, that is a logical response to what happened in this situation with LeBron. It's much easier for his haters to attack him because he didn't leap right up from that incredibly hard foul. (I believe the foul was hard but clean. I also believe that had LeBron committed it, many would be ripping him for it.)
I guess when you can't rip LeBron for choking or losing or being part of a dopey televised decision or whatever, it's easy to question his pain tolerance and manhood.
Six straight NBA Finals, three titles with two different franchises including one that had never won a title, three Finals MVPs, back-to-back 41-point games followed by a triple-double on the road in Game 7 to erase a 3-1 series deficit to "the greatest team ever," etc, etc, etc.
What a bum! Clearly, he doesn't make those around him better and isn't a top-10 all-time player.
Yeah, because I definitely said he's a bum (unless we're talking as a human being, which he then certainly is), doesn't make others around him better, and isn't a top 10 player. Oh wait, I've said he is a top 10 and most likely top 5 player, called out the person who said he didn't make players around him better, etc. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Quote from: tower912 on June 20, 2016, 08:44:20 AM
LeBron got met at the rim by Green, who committed a hard, clean, necessary foul. He landed awkwardly on his right wrist. Anybody who has ever played the game (or any competitive sport for that matter) knows that sometimes there is initial pain from a hard fall. The first few seconds are spent assessing whether or not it is merely pain or a problem. LeBron did what anybody would have done. You're grasping at anything to criticize. You're wrong.
It's one thing to have an "initial shock." Especially when it's an actual injury. Like a sprained ankle. Where you actually miss time. The fall wasn't even awkward at all. He fell from high up, that was it. He landed on one foot and was falling to the ground, so a lot of his momentum went onto the foot. His wrist never got rolled under him, he didn't land straight on his wrist, nothing. I've never in my life seen someone be screaming and hitting the ground for a good 2 minutes to the point that an entire team walks from the other end of the court to check on you and then get up and continue on with the same physical activity with absolutely, positively 0 issue. If he sprained his wrist absolutely. Feels worse right away, realize it's not bad as you thought. I'm fairly confident in saying he wouldn't have been high fiving his teammates, carrying around the trophies, etc. with a sprained wrist. And I'm fairly certain that to sprain your wrist there has to be some kind of extension in some direction of the wrist, which never happened.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2016, 09:15:17 AM
Yeah, because I definitely said he's a bum (unless we're talking as a human being, which he then certainly is), doesn't make others around him better, and isn't a top 10 player. Oh wait, I've said he is a top 10 and most likely top 5 player, called out the person who said he didn't make players around him better, etc. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
It's one thing to have an "initial shock." Especially when it's an actual injury. Like a sprained ankle. Where you actually miss time. The fall wasn't even awkward at all. He fell from high up, that was it. He landed on one foot and was falling to the ground, so a lot of his momentum went onto the foot. His wrist never got rolled under him, he didn't land straight on his wrist, nothing. I've never in my life seen someone be screaming and hitting the ground for a good 2 minutes to the point that an entire team walks from the other end of the court to check on you and then get up and continue on with the same physical activity with absolutely, positively 0 issue. If he sprained his wrist absolutely. Feels worse right away, realize it's not bad as you thought. I'm fairly confident in saying he wouldn't have been high fiving his teammates, carrying around the trophies, etc. with a sprained wrist. And I'm fairly certain that to sprain your wrist there has to be some kind of extension in some direction of the wrist, which never happened.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/59135290.jpg)
I definitely had a Kim English flashback when LeBron went down. Would the Cavs have someone else shoot the free throws, and somehow get LeBron back on the court for the final ten seconds????
Quote from: BrewCity83 on June 20, 2016, 09:51:34 AM
I definitely had a Kim English flashback when LeBron went down. Would the Cavs have someone else shoot the free throws, and somehow get LeBron back on the court for the final ten seconds????
Sadly, I had the same flashback.
I was in Boise that day, and went apoplectic when Tiller went back to the scorer's table to check back in just as English was stepping up to shoot the FTs.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2016, 09:15:17 AM
It's one thing to have an "initial shock." Especially when it's an actual injury. Like a sprained ankle. Where you actually miss time. The fall wasn't even awkward at all. He fell from high up, that was it. He landed on one foot and was falling to the ground, so a lot of his momentum went onto the foot. His wrist never got rolled under him, he didn't land straight on his wrist, nothing. I've never in my life seen someone be screaming and hitting the ground for a good 2 minutes to the point that an entire team walks from the other end of the court to check on you and then get up and continue on with the same physical activity with absolutely, positively 0 issue. If he sprained his wrist absolutely. Feels worse right away, realize it's not bad as you thought. I'm fairly confident in saying he wouldn't have been high fiving his teammates, carrying around the trophies, etc. with a sprained wrist. And I'm fairly certain that to sprain your wrist there has to be some kind of extension in some direction of the wrist, which never happened.
When slapping of five gets scrutinized, we have officially reached "Nersian" on the absurdity scale.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 20, 2016, 10:46:29 AM
When slapping of five gets scrutinized, we have officially reached "Nersian" on the absurdity scale.
I typically ask people to kick me in the foot when I sprain my ankle.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2016, 11:15:45 AM
I typically ask people to kick me in the foot when I sprain my ankle.
I long for the ability to detect another person's level of pain through the power of television.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 20, 2016, 08:43:37 AM
1) The mid-80s Bears should have won more rings
Hence the label "One year wonder"
Quote from: Mutaman on June 20, 2016, 11:40:33 AM
Hence the label "One year wonder"
Perhaps it's just me but the term "one year wonder" makes it sound like the championship was somewhat flukish. The Bears won 14, 11 and 12 games over the next 3 seasons. Their championship season was no fluke. The Warriors won 73 games this season. Their title last season was no fluke, plus they're not going away any time soon. They could rattle off the next 3 titles and it wouldn't be all that surprising.
By your rationale, both Aaron Rodger and Brett Favre are "one year wonders."
Quote from: Mutaman on June 19, 2016, 10:59:18 PM
In a twinkling they went from being allegedly the greatest team of all time to just a fart in the wind.
Thank you Ron Wolf, ai na?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
I long for the ability to detect another person's level of pain through the power of television.
I typically go from "OH MY GOD MY ARM IS SHATTERED!" to "I'm good to shoot a basketball without any signs of any hesitation" in about 10 seconds.
I am astonished how Golden State abandoned ball movement down the stretch and just kept firing up well-guarded threes. As much fun as they are to watch when they are clicking, it was brutal watching them play offense when the off balance, not squared up threes are not falling.
James was phenomenal, but the 3 by Irving was the shot of the series.
Strange series, 6 games that weren't particularly close and the final was as close as you could want, nip and tuck the entire way, but was not crisply played.
Wades, the problem with all of this is that if someone had secret footage* of LeBron saving an orphan from a house fire, you'd criticize how he did it. You know it. We all know it.
*Note: I specified "secret footage" (i.e., didn't know he was being filmed) so you won't argue that he was doing it for the cameras.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2016, 12:12:58 PM
I typically go from "OH MY GOD MY ARM IS SHATTERED!" to "I'm good to shoot a basketball without any signs of any hesitation" in about 10 seconds.
So, basically you're Wolverine.
(http://www.picgifs.com/movies-and-series/movies/x-men-wolverine/picgifs-x-men-wolverine-811314.gif)
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 20, 2016, 12:24:29 PM
Wades, the problem with all of this is that if someone had secret footage* of LeBron saving an orphan from a house fire, you'd criticize how he did it. You know it. We all know it.
*Note: I specified "secret footage" (i.e., didn't know he was being filmed) so you won't argue that he was doing it for the cameras.
Nope. His going up to the kid with autism (I think it was) in Boston was one of the coolest things I've seen in all of sports.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 20, 2016, 09:36:41 AM
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/59135290.jpg)
This pretty much sums up every Scoop thread in recent times.
Quote from: CTWarrior on June 20, 2016, 12:18:02 PM
I am astonished how Golden State abandoned ball movement down the stretch and just kept firing up well-guarded threes. As much fun as they are to watch when they are clicking, it was brutal watching them play offense when the off balance, not squared up threes are not falling.
Curry said the same thing in his post-game presser when he took a lot of the blame. Pretty much said that he went for the "kill shot" too many times versus moving the ball.
Don't get me wrong, when Love switched out on Curry at one point he did great preventing an open 3, but Curry could have easily driven on him and broke down the defense. He just didn't do it.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 20, 2016, 11:48:42 AM
.
By your rationale, both Aaron Rodger and Brett Favre are "one year wonders."
of course not, they're Hall of Famers. But, as Wolfe made clear, their championship teams were. "Great" teams repeat.
Quote from: Mutaman on June 20, 2016, 12:35:53 PM
of course not, they're Hall of Famers. But, as Wolfe made clear, their championship teams were. "Great" teams repeat.
A player (the same guy year after year) who has one good/great year in a mediocre career is a one year wonder.
Every team, however, is unique. Personnel changes from year to year. Certainly the '84 and '86 Chicago Bears don't measure up to the Packers of the mid '60s, Dolphins of the early '70s, etc. so the franchise can't claim a "dynasty". But that one team, the '85 Bears, was the greatest, most dominant and easily the most fun of any in NFL history. What they did with different players and coaches in years prior or post is beside the point.
has anyone seen the early 'J.R. Smith post series incarceration' odds? I'd take under on an over/under of 3 weeks with either any type of assault at 5:1 or specific domestic assault at 7:1
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2016, 09:15:17 AM
Yeah, because I definitely said he's a bum (unless we're talking as a human being, which he then certainly is), doesn't make others around him better, and isn't a top 10 player. Oh wait, I've said he is a top 10 and most likely top 5 player, called out the person who said he didn't make players around him better, etc. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
It's one thing to have an "initial shock." Especially when it's an actual injury. Like a sprained ankle. Where you actually miss time. The fall wasn't even awkward at all. He fell from high up, that was it. He landed on one foot and was falling to the ground, so a lot of his momentum went onto the foot. His wrist never got rolled under him, he didn't land straight on his wrist, nothing. I've never in my life seen someone be screaming and hitting the ground for a good 2 minutes to the point that an entire team walks from the other end of the court to check on you and then get up and continue on with the same physical activity with absolutely, positively 0 issue. If he sprained his wrist absolutely. Feels worse right away, realize it's not bad as you thought. I'm fairly confident in saying he wouldn't have been high fiving his teammates, carrying around the trophies, etc. with a sprained wrist. And I'm fairly certain that to sprain your wrist there has to be some kind of extension in some direction of the wrist, which never happened.
First, the "bum" line wasn't meant for you but I certainly could see how you would take it that way as it was at the end of the post that was largely directed to you. So I apologize for the miscommunication.
Second, watching it several times, including in slow motion, I thought he stuck his right arm out to brace for the fall and it folded awkwardly under his 260-pound body.
But then again, unlike you, I am neither a doctor nor a physical trainer nor an expert on athletic injuries. And unlike you, I was not in the arena sitting 10 feet away from LeBron when he came down on his arm/wrist.
You and I agree on much, wades, and I really grew to respect your knowledge of the entire Ellenson situation. But IMHO, your disdain for LeBron clouds your judgment about many things involving him.
Wades, are you secretly Skip Bayless?
https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/744720517035364356?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Sorry, but if his weight fell on anything it's on his shoulder. His hand slides right along the floor with his momentum. By the time any of his weight is hitting the floor his hand isn't even on the ground. Here's an example of a wrist folding awkwardly:
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v25537611/bosnyy-matsui-breaks-wrist-while-diving-for-ball
They even talk about if the hand just slides with your slide you're fine (like LeBron's did), but if it catches (LeBron's clearly didn't) it folds the wrist.
Fact of the matter is LeBron rolled around on the ground for minutes screaming like he was going to get up with a limb dangling and wobbling around from his body...only to walk to the free throw line and shoot a couple free throws with no issue whatsoever.
But I'm Skip Bayless.
At least you admit it.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2016, 11:08:56 PM
https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/744720517035364356?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Sorry, but if his weight fell on anything it's on his shoulder. His hand slides right along the floor with his momentum. By the time any of his weight is hitting the floor his hand isn't even on the ground. Here's an example of a wrist folding awkwardly:
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v25537611/bosnyy-matsui-breaks-wrist-while-diving-for-ball
They even talk about if the hand just slides with your slide you're fine (like LeBron's did), but if it catches (LeBron's clearly didn't) it folds the wrist.
Fact of the matter is LeBron rolled around on the ground for minutes screaming like he was going to get up with a limb dangling and wobbling around from his body...only to walk to the free throw line and shoot a couple free throws with no issue whatsoever.
But I'm Skip Bayless.
The thing is, you hate LeBron so much it colors your perceptions and you causes you to characterize everything he does far more negatively than most would (causing the Bayless comparison). I don't doubt that that fall hurt a bit, even though he clearly didn't fold the wrist -- and I agree he didn't and was immediately relieved (as a Cavs fan) when I saw the first replay. I don't know exactly what hurt, or why it hurt or how much it hurt. And I'll even acknowledge that LeBron was a bit of a drama queen and maybe exaggerated (to catch his breath, to get attention, to add drama to the moment, all of the above, none of the above). And clearly you find that annoying. But when you type stuff like I bolded above, you're every bit the drama queen as LeBron. And it's annoying.
And your "fact of the matter" is not even correct -- it's just your editorializing. He didn't "roll around on the ground for minutes screaming..." He was on his feet less than a minute after he hit the floor. I didn't hear him screaming (although
someone - maybe LeBron - was cussing because they killed the sound). And the rest of the bolded part is pure exaggeration and editorializing.
I think the "fact of the matter" is a combination of what someone said earlier in the thread and your underlying point. He hit the ground -- smacking his hand/wrist on the floor. It hurt. There was that initial moment of fear when he felt the pain and it scared him. He was a bit of a drama queen while he took inventory of the situation. He realized he wasn't injured. And 53 seconds later he got up. Not that big of a deal. But, because you hate LeBron, you seem to think it is a huge deal.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 21, 2016, 07:19:16 AM
The thing is, you hate LeBron so much it colors your perceptions and you causes you to characterize everything he does far more negatively than most would (causing the Bayless comparison).
It's similar to his "unbiased" views of Jay Cutler in the NFL threads.
And obviously Jay Cutler is the LeBron of the NFL ;)
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 21, 2016, 07:19:16 AM
The thing is, you hate LeBron so much it colors your perceptions and you causes you to characterize everything he does far more negatively than most would (causing the Bayless comparison). I don't doubt that that fall hurt a bit, even though he clearly didn't fold the wrist -- and I agree he didn't and was immediately relieved (as a Cavs fan) when I saw the first replay. I don't know exactly what hurt, or why it hurt or how much it hurt. And I'll even acknowledge that LeBron was a bit of a drama queen and maybe exaggerated (to catch his breath, to get attention, to add drama to the moment, all of the above, none of the above). And clearly you find that annoying. But when you type stuff like I bolded above, you're every bit the drama queen as LeBron. And it's annoying.
And your "fact of the matter" is not even correct -- it's just your editorializing. He didn't "roll around on the ground for minutes screaming..." He was on his feet less than a minute after he hit the floor. I didn't hear him screaming (although someone - maybe LeBron - was cussing because they killed the sound). And the rest of the bolded part is pure exaggeration and editorializing.
I think the "fact of the matter" is a combination of what someone said earlier in the thread and your underlying point. He hit the ground -- smacking his hand/wrist on the floor. It hurt. There was that initial moment of fear when he felt the pain and it scared him. He was a bit of a drama queen while he took inventory of the situation. He realized he wasn't injured. And 53 seconds later he got up. Not that big of a deal. But, because you hate LeBron, you seem to think it is a huge deal.
Another point: Even if the whole thing was an act...who cares? Going back to what I said at the beginning of the series, people choose to not like Lebron for completely silly and irrational reasons. This is yet another one.
Paul Pierce was carried off the floor by his teammates back in 2008, rolled back to the locker room in a wheelchair, and comes out to play later in the game and...<crickets>
Lebron may or may not be in pain after a hard fall, and people like wades are up in arms about it. Bizarre.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2016, 11:08:56 PM
But I'm Skip Bayless.
When is someone finally going to give Tim Tebow a chance?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 21, 2016, 08:58:48 AM
Going back to what I said at the beginning of the series, people choose to not like Lebron for completely silly and irrational reasons.
Absolutely true.
But just as people choose not to like LeBron for completely silly and irrational reasons, likewise many people choose to like him for completely silly and irrational reasons.
Cleveland fans loved him
because he played for the Cavs. Then they hated him, and Miami fans loved him,
because he went to Miami. Then they loved him
because he came back to the Cavs. He was the same player all along, but many people chose to like him (or not) because of the color of his jersey.
Want another example? Packer fans loved Favre while he was playing for Green Bay, then hated him when he played with the Vikings. Same guy, different jersey.
Many of our preferences in spectator sports - like any form of entertainment - aren't based on some objective standard. They are largely based on subjective feelings, beliefs and loyalties.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 21, 2016, 09:52:49 AM
Absolutely true.
But just as people choose not to like LeBron for completely silly and irrational reasons, likewise many people choose to like him for completely silly and irrational reasons.
Cleveland fans loved him because he played for the Cavs. Then they hated him, and Miami fans loved him, because he went to Miami. Then they loved him because he came back to the Cavs. He was the same player all along, but many people chose to like him (or not) because of the color of his jersey.
Want another example? Packer fans loved Favre while he was playing for Green Bay, then hated him when he played with the Vikings. Same guy, different jersey.
Many of our preferences in spectator sports - like any form of entertainment - aren't based on some objective standard. They are largely based on subjective feelings, beliefs and loyalties.
I understand that. Hating on a rival is completely rational to me.
But I think it is more than that. I know people who have no rooting interest for or against the Cavs who don't like Lebron. I know people who aren't really fans of NBA basketball who don't like Lebron. And when you ask them why, you get stuff like what is mentioned in this and the earlier thread. It makes no sense to me. I have no idea why he is unlikable. It is irrational.
Folks hate LeBron because he's the best and a winner. And frankly among top athletes in each sport, he's actually pretty easy to like compared to many. Favre's personal life was always kind of a mess for example. ARodg learned by watching and always seems to carry himself with dignity at the other end of the scale.
Personally, I like LeBron a lot as I saw the same jealousy directed toward Michael. Now unfortunately we've learned that MJ had a darker side that wasn't too well known at the time. Let's hope LeBron's image stands the test of time better.
Quote from: jsglow on June 21, 2016, 10:19:13 AM
Folks hate LeBron because he's the best and a winner. And frankly among top athletes in each sport, he's actually pretty easy to like compared to many. Favre's personal life was always kind of a mess for example. ARodg learned by watching and always seems to carry himself with dignity at the other end of the scale.
Personally, I like LeBron a lot as I saw the same jealousy directed toward Michael. Now unfortunately we've learned that MJ had a darker side that wasn't too well known at the time. Let's hope LeBron's image stands the test of time better.
Sure, LeBron has forced coaches out (like Jordan and Magic did), he has a huge ego (like, well, every all-world athlete), etc. He's also the best in the world at what he does and a once-in-a-generation athlete. For whatever reason, being great makes a person hateable in the minds of many. Last year, Steph Curry was the toast of the town. By the end of this season, a lot of fans completely turned on him.
As for LeBron, some people have never gotten over "The Decision" even though he admitted several years ago that it was a mistake. In addition, that "decision" turned people off because he want to join his buddies in Miami as opposed to wanting to win a championship on his own, you know, the way all the greats did ::)
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 21, 2016, 10:42:51 AM
As for LeBron, some people have never gotten over "The Decision" even though he admitted several years ago that it was a mistake. In addition, that "decision" turned people off because he want to join his buddies in Miami as opposed to wanting to win a championship on his own, you know, the way all the greats did ::)
I think there's a little bit more to it than that. Fairly or not, many saw LeBron going to Miami as taking the easy road to a title, and doing so in a way that kicked his hometown in the nuts.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2016, 10:54:13 AM
I think there's a little bit more to it than that. Fairly or not, many saw LeBron going to Miami as taking the easy road to a title, and doing so in a way that kicked his hometown in the nuts.
Well it was an easier road to a title. There really is no disputing that. He was a free agent so that was his right. The Decision was dumb. He realized it was dumb and apologized. I doubt anyone who was offended by that really cares any longer.
I hate him because of his off-the-court antics. Much to do with social media and regular media interactions.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 21, 2016, 10:04:10 AM
I understand that. Hating on a rival is completely rational to me.
But I think it is more than that. I know people who have no rooting interest for or against the Cavs who don't like Lebron. I know people who aren't really fans of NBA basketball who don't like Lebron. And when you ask them why, you get stuff like what is mentioned in this and the earlier thread. It makes no sense to me. I have no idea why he is unlikable. It is irrational.
But Cleveland and Miami were never really rivals, except in the most general sense (they both play in the NBA). So Packer fans hating Favre for going to the Vikings was "rational", while Cavs fans hating LeBron for going to Miami arguably wasn't - or at the least, was far less rational...right?
I can completely see why Cav fans hated Lebron.
I have trouble figuring out why my friend who barely watches the NBA hates Lebron.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 21, 2016, 11:17:20 AM
I have trouble figuring out why my friend who barely watches the NBA hates Lebron.
If I had to guess the whole concept of the 'decision' was off-putting to the average person. Once you get that perspective then you amplify every other negative experience with the person and likely don't look for the good.
The other thing, for some reason I have noticed that the 'average' person claims they do not like the NBA. Put those together with a guy who skipped college and you get some average guy hate.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 21, 2016, 11:22:59 AM
If I had to guess the whole concept of the 'decision' was off-putting to the average person. Once you get that perspective then you amplify every other negative experience with the person and likely don't look for the good.
But this is what I don't get. If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy? Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?
It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers. Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 21, 2016, 11:29:06 AM
But this is what I don't get. If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy? Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?
It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers. Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?
Because that was a flashy & self-motivated move that ripped the heart out of a fan-base. Doesn't play well to the casual fan in my opinion. If LBJ never goes back to the Cav's their fans don't forgive him -- if I were to guess its a binary thing for them. Pure hypothesis but if LBJ left for the Lakers - I am sure some Cav's fans turn back to disliking him.
I think if Favre went to the Vikes in his prime or did a nationally televised special many people would feel the same way.
I personally don't care and don't dislike LBJ, but I can see why his image took a hit.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 21, 2016, 11:29:06 AM
But this is what I don't get. If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy? Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?
It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers. Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?
Because they've only forgiven him since he came back and suddenly their interests were aligned again. If he didn't come back, his apologies and "maturity" wouldn't mean anything. If your friend's gf cheats on him when he's going through a rough patch and flaunts all over the place, but then apologizes and comes back after he gets a promotion at work, you're still justified in thinking she's awful even if he's happy again. Neither of you would particularly care for her if she apologized but continued dating other randoms.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 21, 2016, 11:29:06 AM
But this is what I don't get. If he apologizes, and the parties most aggrieved by the Decision (Gilbert and Cav's fans) have forgiven him, why can't the average guy? Why be more upset than the people who truly have the right to be upset?
It would be like a Chargers fan not liking Brett Favre for the way he left the Packers. Since Packer fans have moved on, why can't the Chargers fan?
Because sports fans (myself included) are idiots when it comes to "forgiving" players when they can help our teams win.
When your team's star player returns from some transgression to lead the squad to a championship, it's a wonderful tale of redemption.
When it's some other team's star player returning from some transgression to lead them to a championship, it's proof that their idiot fans would sell their souls for a title.
In my case, Minnesota Twin/San Francisco Giant AJ Pierzynski was among the biggest jags in sports ....then he signed with my White Sox, helped them win a World Series.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2016, 12:07:24 PM
In my case, Minnesota Twin/San Francisco Giant AJ Pierzynski was among the biggest jags in sports ....then he signed with my White Sox, helped them win a World Series.
Agree on that as a Sox fan -- even better example was Rodman for me (because of his Piston beginning).
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2016, 12:07:24 PM
Because sports fans (myself included) are idiots when it comes to "forgiving" players when they can help our teams win.
When your team's star player returns from some transgression to lead the squad to a championship, it's a wonderful tale of redemption.
When it's some other team's star player returning from some transgression to lead them to a championship, it's proof that their idiot fans would sell their souls for a title.
In my case, Minnesota Twin/San Francisco Giant AJ Pierzynski was among the biggest jags in sports ....then he signed with my White Sox, helped them win a World Series.
Cubs fans welcomed Jim Edmonds.
Packers fans welcomed Julius Peppers.
Yankees fans welcomed Roger Clemens.
Vikings fans welcomed Brett Favre.
Brewers fans welcomed back Ryan Braun.
Giants fans cheered for Barry Bonds.
No matter where you played before or what you've done, if you can help our team win, you're our guy!
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 21, 2016, 12:08:39 PM
Agree on that as a Sox fan -- even better example was Rodman for me (because of his Piston beginning).
as long as we're branching into the "guys i love on my team but totally get why everyone hates them" thread...
AJ was clearly that guy as a Twins fan
John Starks was that guy as a Knicks fan. same era - HATED Reggie Miller but would've loved him on my team.
Moss came close to being that guy if he hadn't turned out to be such a cancer
Quote from: JWags85 on June 21, 2016, 11:45:38 AM
Because they've only forgiven him since he came back and suddenly their interests were aligned again. If he didn't come back, his apologies and "maturity" wouldn't mean anything. If your friend's gf cheats on him when he's going through a rough patch and flaunts all over the place, but then apologizes and comes back after he gets a promotion at work, you're still justified in thinking she's awful even if he's happy again. Neither of you would particularly care for her if she apologized but continued dating other randoms.
That's really not a very good analogy.
Sultan - I really think you're overanalyzing this.
Peoples' likes and dislikes are so subjective and unpredictable that it's futile to assume they fall simply into the "rational" or "irrational." There might be certain factors that make a like/dislike decision seem more rational to you (like going to a rival)...but even after I pointed out that Miami was never really a rival of Cleveland, you still said you understood why the Cavs fans hated LeBron. Why? Because it subjectively makes sense to you...not because they were objectively right to hate him.
Likes and dislikes are based as much (maybe more) on emotion than logic. Accept that, and life will be much more relaxing.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 21, 2016, 01:37:21 PM
Sultan - I really think you're overanalyzing this.
Oh completely... It's irrational. :D
The parade is completely out of control. I would have loved to have been down there, but I'm glad I didn't go. We're four hours in and the players haven't completed the 1.5 mile trek to where they are having the rally. I saw one report estimating there are 1.3 million people are there. My son is there...hope he's having a good time. I'm looking forward to hearing about it.