Marquette ranks 21st in 2015-'16 men's basketball attendance
On Wednesday, the NCAA put out its annual men's basketball attendance report for the 2015-'16 season. The report announced that the total Division I attendance (27,234,610) was the 10th-highest total in history despite being down slightly compared to the previous season.
Source: Marquette ranks 21st in 2015-'16 men's basketball attendance (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/382299161.html)
The Big East finished number five overall in average attendance per game (9,595), ahead of the Pacific-12 (7,731), behind The Big 10 (12,555), SEC (11,144), ACC (11,131), and Big 12 (10,124). Here are the average attendance numbers for league teams with national rank.
10. Creighton 15,941
21. Marquette 13,308
41. Xavier 10,281
44. Providence 9,703 (increase from past year of 1,089 was 19th biggest)
51. Georgetown 8,879
58. Butler 8,164
59. Villanova! 8,119
67. Seton Hall 7,070
71. St Johns 6,944
95. DePaul 5,513
Villanova only played the three games at Well Fargo Center, in hope to be placed in the East in Philadelphia.
The Pavilion, where Nova plays most of its home games, only seats 6,500 — approximately 1/3 the capacity of the Wells Fargo Arena. I wouldn't be surprised if a national championship accelerates plans for an upgrade.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on June 08, 2016, 08:10:44 PM
The Big East finished number five overall in average attendance per game (9,595), ahead of the Pacific-12 (7,731), behind The Big 10 (12,555), SEC (11,144), ACC (11,131), and Big 12 (10,124). Here are the average attendance numbers for league teams with national rank.
10. Creighton 15,941
21. Marquette 13,308
41. Xavier 10,281
44. Providence 9,703 (increase from past year of 1,089 was 19th biggest)
51. Georgetown 8,879
58. Butler 8,164
59. Villanova! 8,119
67. Seton Hall 7,070
71. St Johns 6,944
95. DePaul 5,513
So about 5,000 opponent fans make the trip to DePaul games, hey?
Quote from: bradley center bat on June 08, 2016, 08:47:23 PM
Villanova only played the three games at Well Fargo Center, in hope to be placed in the East in Philadelphia.
Kinda funny that the plan "failed" at getting them to the East...then they won the whole thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Marquette #1 in attendance for schools that are located in an NBA town?
Quote from: warriorchick on June 09, 2016, 06:53:04 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Marquette #1 in attendance for schools that are located in an NBA town?
Yes. Memphis, Georgetown, St. John's, Nova and Marquette. Seton Hall plays in The Rock but the Nets moved. All Big East or former Big East.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on June 09, 2016, 07:23:12 AM
Yes. Memphis, Georgetown, St. John's, Nova and Marquette. Seton Hall plays in The Rock but the Nets moved. All Big East or former Big East.
Click through Matty V's article to the entire list. . I am talking #1 in the entire country.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 09, 2016, 07:34:02 AM
Click through Matty V's article to the entire list. . I am talking #1 in the entire country.
Can't we just wait for Heisy to paste it here?
I find it amazing the SEC averages more attendance per game than the ACC. Very hard to believe. I guess a lot of small arenas (in ACC) despite big fan bases.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 09, 2016, 02:41:47 PM
I find it amazing the SEC averages more attendance per game than the ACC. Very hard to believe. I guess a lot of small arenas (in ACC) despite big fan bases.
SEC fans are pretty serious about all of their sports. There aren't any pro teams of any kind in Alabama or Mississippi.
They are going ape crap over Vandy baseball in Nashville right now.
What was our average the past 2 seasons? Did we go up or down?
Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 09, 2016, 02:41:47 PM
I find it amazing the SEC averages more attendance per game than the ACC. Very hard to believe. I guess a lot of small arenas (in ACC) despite big fan bases.
The ACC was only behind by 13 fans per game, as well. Can't really get any closer.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 09, 2016, 03:38:08 PM
What was our average the past 2 seasons? Did we go up or down?
The good news is that we
only dropped by 349 fans per game last year to 13,308 from 13,657 in 2015. The bad news in 2015 we dropped by 1,670 fans per game from 15,327 (Creighton territory) in 2014. Elite Eights matter.
Anyone notice that Creighton almost tripled DePaul's attendance?
They must be counting people twice at the DePaul games. I've seen plenty of games there and 5,000 is a generous count.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on June 09, 2016, 03:43:47 PM
The good news is that we only dropped by 349 fans per game last year to 13,308 from 13,657 in 2015. The bad news in 2015 we dropped by 1,670 fans per game from 15,327 (Creighton territory) in 2014. Elite Eights matter.
Anyone notice that Creighton almost tripled DePaul's attendance?
So .. down 2000 average in the Wojo era .. times roughly 20 games = 40,000 fewer tickets sold per year .. what's the average ticket, maybe $30? Revenue down $1.2m per year (from 2014).
I'd suggest the "butts in seats" factor is down double+ that number.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 09, 2016, 06:53:04 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Marquette #1 in attendance for schools that are located in an NBA town?
Though on the contrary I believe Marquette is the only one who gets to play all their home games in an NBA arena. I think Villanova tramples them if they did.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 09, 2016, 03:59:00 PM
So .. down 2000 average in the Wojo era .. times roughly 20 games = 40,000 fewer tickets sold per year .. what's the average ticket, maybe $30? Revenue down $1.2m per year (from 2014).
I'd suggest the "butts in seats" factor is down double+ that number.
I think $30 is too high considering the lower bowl is likely sold out regardless, the upper level seats are much cheaper on average. Mine were like $8 and the Coorslite even cheaper.
Quote from: #UnleashWally on June 09, 2016, 04:01:14 PM
Though on the contrary I believe Marquette is the only one who gets to play all their home games in an NBA arena. I think Villanova tramples them if they did.
I wonder how much revenue Villanova "lost" in their gamble to play in Phila. during the tournament.
Quote from: #UnleashWally on June 09, 2016, 04:01:14 PM
Though on the contrary I believe Marquette is the only one who gets to play all their home games in an NBA arena. I think Villanova tramples them if they did.
in the top 50 nationally only MU, Memphis and Minnesota are in NBA cities and only MU and Memphis play in NBA arenas. Looking at the list it makes total sense i.e. given where most big campuses are, but it's still shocking to see.
Quote from: #UnleashWally on June 09, 2016, 04:01:14 PM
Though on the contrary I believe Marquette is the only one who gets to play all their home games in an NBA arena. I think Villanova tramples them if they did.
My point was that none of the schools above us have NBA basketball as competition.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on June 09, 2016, 03:43:47 PM
The good news is that we only dropped by 349 fans per game last year to 13,308 from 13,657 in 2015. The bad news in 2015 we dropped by 1,670 fans per game from 15,327 (Creighton territory) in 2014. Elite Eights matter.
You have to knock the Alabama A&M game out of the 2015 number, though. That makes the BC average 14,318.
That's just nitpicking about where the 2015 number actually belongs, though. The drop from 15,327 to 13,308 is the important part.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on June 09, 2016, 04:06:30 PM
I think $30 is too high considering the lower bowl is likely sold out regardless, the upper level seats are much cheaper on average. Mine were like $8 and the Coorslite even cheaper.
The lower bowls are $34 and are 100% sold. I think that represents 8000 seats. I suppose 2000 of those are $5 student seats, though.
That leaves 13-8=5000 upper deck seats. The middle sections sell for $25, corners are $20ish.
I think $30 is pretty close. Maybe $27. Maybe knock off a couple bucks for discounts .. $25.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 09, 2016, 07:34:02 AM
Click through Matty V's article to the entire list. . I am talking #1 in the entire country.
I am confused. I answered yes that MU is #1 and gave the others in an NBA arena, and showed the link of the BE and NBA (Hint: It is an urban league not a northern Wisconsin league).
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on June 09, 2016, 03:56:48 PM
They must be counting people twice at the DePaul games. I've seen plenty of games there and 5,000 is a generous count.
I think DePaul includes any ticket that was printed.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on June 09, 2016, 10:46:55 PM
I am confused. I answered yes that MU is #1 and gave the others in an NBA arena, and showed the link of the BE and NBA (Hint: It is an urban league not a northern Wisconsin league).
She said NBA 'town'
You be talkin bout NBA arena
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 10, 2016, 07:39:47 AM
She said NBA 'town'
You be talkin bout NBA arena
+1
People seem to be having trouble understanding me lately....
A lot of schools would die for our attendance figures; and we haven't been to the NCAAs the past three seasons. Once we start putting winning (i.e. tournament bound ) teams on the court again, and we will; attendance should go up again.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 10, 2016, 08:05:03 AM
A lot of schools would die for our attendance figures; and we haven't been to the NCAAs the past three seasons. Once we start putting winning (i.e. tournament bound ) teams on the court again, and we will; attendance should go up again.
I think that'll take some cycles.
Real attendance growth doesn't come from walk-up sales, it's from season ticket holders. -- I mean, sure, if the team is doing well, your walk-up sales for big-name weekend games will go up, but that's maybe 6 games a year, being generous.
So you need to reverse the downward season ticket holder trend (which would be done by winning) .. PLUS get new blood.
The new blood comes from recent grads, who've experienced a great time as they were students -- but not just one season. MU just graduated a crop of students who can barely recall their Freshman year E8 experience, followed by 3 years of yuck.
Not to mention .. it's not just winning. It's the conference and our schedule going forward that doesn't present a favorable mass of games to entice someone to buy a 20 game slate.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 09, 2016, 03:20:58 PM
SEC fans are pretty serious about all of their sports. There aren't any pro teams of any kind in Alabama or Mississippi.
They are going ape crap over Vandy baseball in Nashville right now.
Funny thing is the south really doesn't like basketball too much and the media doesn't cover it. That number is made bigger by Kentucky and Tennessee.
Quote from: bradley center bat on June 10, 2016, 08:47:30 AM
Funny thing is the south really doesn't like basketball to much and the media doesn't cover it. That number is made big by Kentucky and Tennessee.
Not sure who you are talking about when you say "the media". What else is going to be on the front of the sports page in Birmingham, Alabama, or Jackson Mississippi in February? The NHL?
Quote from: warriorchick on June 10, 2016, 08:54:41 AM
Not sure who you are talking about when you say "the media". What else is going to be on the front of the sports page in Birmingham, Alabama, or Jackson Mississippi in February? The NHL?
The media in the south doesn't cover college basketball in the south like it should going back to the Dale Brown days at LSU and Wimp at Alabama. It's college football 24/7. (Which is fine, but...) National Signing Day on the first Wednesday in February is like the Super Bowl in the South.
Mississippi is huge for college baseball.
College football and NASCAR seem to dominate those headlines, though just about any state without a baseball team also embraces the Braves as their own.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 09, 2016, 10:44:26 PM
The lower bowls are $34 and are 100% sold. I think that represents 8000 seats. I suppose 2000 of those are $5 student seats, though.
That leaves 13-8=5000 upper deck seats. The middle sections sell for $25, corners are $20ish.
I think $30 is pretty close. Maybe $27. Maybe knock off a couple bucks for discounts .. $25.
Thinking about it wrong topper. The lost revenue you describe is at the margin. No $34 tickets weren't sold. Lots of $15 and $20 were. It's the upper deck that matters.
And the point about the Al game the previous year is a good one.
I'll add one more. NMD was a uuuuugggee success this year in part cause Nova was #1.That really skewed the average up.
Don't mean to be Debbie Downer but it's dropping again in '16-'17 although Bucky will certainly help.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 10, 2016, 07:57:44 AM
+1
People seem to be having trouble understanding me lately....
Obtuse is my middle name. My bad.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on June 09, 2016, 03:43:47 PM
The good news is that we only dropped by 349 fans per game last year to 13,308 from 13,657 in 2015. The bad news in 2015 we dropped by 1,670 fans per game from 15,327 (Creighton territory) in 2014. Elite Eights matter.
Anyone notice that Creighton almost tripled DePaul's attendance?
I went to a Creighton game around Christmas time when school was out , they played a cream puff , North Texas State, the place was completely full. People brought their entire families. We were in a corporate suite and those were all full .
I think it is a helpful recruiting tool for Creighton. Their transfer guard specifically pointed out at the time he transferred from BU is that he wanted to play in front of big crowds.
I think for us we need to to put several strong years back to back and be a viable competitor for the Big East title. Buzz put a quality product on the court and that definitely draws crowds. I am in the camp that says we are going to be a better team this year and I think our current players and the prospects on the way will be a group that the fans will enjoy and support.
I just noticed that Creighton and Nebraska are 10th and11th nationally...and Nebraska sucks at hoops. Either the fans down there have nothing to do...or maybe it's a local passion that the rest of the country isn't very aware of.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2016, 11:19:53 AM
I just noticed that Creighton and Nebraska are 10th and11th nationally...and Nebraska sucks at hoops. Either the fans down there have nothing to do...or maybe it's a local passion that the rest of the country isn't very aware of.
It's Omaha. There are no major league pro sports. If you want to take a client to a sporting event a couple of times a year, what other choices do you have? Creighton is getting business that in Milwaukee would go to the Bucks, Admirals, or even Brewers.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2016, 11:19:53 AM
I just noticed that Creighton and Nebraska are 10th and11th nationally...and Nebraska sucks at hoops. Either the fans down there have nothing to do...or maybe it's a local passion that the rest of the country isn't very aware of.
That new arena has done wonders for Nebraska. Fan base loves Tim Miles.
Quote from: jsglow on June 10, 2016, 10:19:37 AM
Thinking about it wrong topper. The lost revenue you describe is at the margin. No $34 tickets weren't sold. Lots of $15 and $20 were. It's the upper deck that matters.
Indeed, I stand corrected. The lost ticket revenue is almost entirely the upper deck. Good analysis.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 10, 2016, 11:19:53 AM
I just noticed that Creighton and Nebraska are 10th and11th nationally...and Nebraska sucks at hoops. Either the fans down there have nothing to do...or maybe it's a local passion that the rest of the country isn't very aware of.
Nebraska just opened a new arena as well
In 2018 when we get the new arena I expect MU will get an attendance bump, unless of course the ticket prices increase to a prohibitive level.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 10, 2016, 12:07:45 PM
It's Omaha. There are no major league pro sports. If you want to take a client to a sporting event a couple of times a year, what other choices do you have? Creighton is getting business that in Milwaukee would go to the Bucks, Admirals, or even Brewers.
You take them an hour down the road to Lincoln for a football game. This is well known if you have a scintilla of knowledge about corporate life in Omaha.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on June 10, 2016, 05:04:47 PM
In 2018 when we get the new arena I expect MU will get an attendance bump, unless of course the ticket prices increase to a prohibitive level.
You know, that is indeed conventional wisdom. New stadium, new excitement. I can imagine an amount of people thinking a MU bball game is the "cheap" way to see the new stadium versus paying some stupid amount to see the Bucks' play.
But .. I can't imagine that generating many new MU season ticket holders. Maybe upstairs BC people see an opportunity to move downstairs (and pay more). Just not sure that a significant chunk of people are right on the edge of buying a season and that new stadium is pushing them over. Time will tell.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on June 10, 2016, 05:34:02 PM
You take them an hour down the road to Lincoln for a football game. This is well known if you have a scintilla of knowledge about corporate life in Omaha.
I'm assuming the tealest of teal otherwise you'd be talking up the scenery along that drive???
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 10, 2016, 08:36:40 PM
You know, that is indeed conventional wisdom. New stadium, new excitement. I can imagine an amount of people thinking a MU bball game is the "cheap" way to see the new stadium versus paying some stupid amount to see the Bucks' play.
But .. I can't imagine that generating many new MU season ticket holders. Maybe upstairs BC people see an opportunity to move downstairs (and pay more). Just not sure that a significant chunk of people are right on the edge of buying a season and that new stadium is pushing them over. Time will tell.
No one can answer that now, but it will help in single game sales as many won't sit in the upper deck as half the seats are too far away or so high up.
While we're on the subject of attendance, I recall that a few posters in threads concerning scheduling reported a fair amount of griping amoung their season ticket holding friends regarding not renewing. Does anyone care to hazard a guess about what will happen with next year's attendance? Was there a "Henry Ellenson effect" last year where people kept their tickets or came on board for a year to see MU's first one and done?
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on June 11, 2016, 04:25:44 AM
While we're on the subject of attendance, I recall that a few posters in threads concerning scheduling reported a fair amount of griping amoung their season ticket holding friends regarding not renewing. Does anyone care to hazard a guess about what will happen with next year's attendance? Was there a "Henry Ellenson effect" last year where people kept their tickets or came on board for a year to see MU's first one and done?
I know that when I picked my season tickets a year ago, I was shocked at how much was still available in the lower bowl for me to pick from, or at the very least, it seemed like I had a much wider variety of options without suddenly donating $10K to MU. Didn't seem that way this year, for whatever that's worth.
I was ready to drop tickets, but my wife is a better fan and was not, and found another ticket holder to split games with .. we each bought 1, between us, we dropped from 4 to 2 seats and will go to half the games.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2016, 08:29:41 AM
I was ready to drop tickets, but my wife is a better fan and was not, and found another ticket holder to split games with .. we each bought 1, between us, we dropped from 4 to 2 seats and will go to half the games.
Cripes, what's next? You gonna switch out that license plate?
--------
re: Attendance, I do think people overlook some of the important details outside of opponent and win-loss record... timing of game (Tuesday 6pm vs. Saturday 1pm) year vs. year is important; weather can be important... to get a good understanding of comp's, I think you have to go through these details to some degree, or you're going to reach faulty conclusions.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 11, 2016, 09:21:18 AM
Cripes, what's next? You gonna switch out that license plate?
--------
re: Attendance, I do think people overlook some of the important details outside of opponent and win-loss record... timing of game (Tuesday 6pm vs. Saturday 1pm) year vs. year is important; weather can be important... to get a good understanding of comp's, I think you have to go through these details to some degree, or you're going to reach faulty conclusions.
None of that is known when season ticket holders sign up, however...or even when the smaller packs go on sale. It is product on the floor, recruiting, hype (which Wojo is poor at in comparison to Crean or Buzz), and last season's schedule/performance (especially post-season) that are in your consideration set. Start times, weather are just reasons not to show up. Walk up sales are a small part of revenue nowadays, especially with the school's gone from the Old Big East.
However, the economy, the Boomers becoming Snow Birds, and the Millenials being stuck with six figure school loan debt are changing things. The new conference is holding up, but having no Notre Dame, Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburgh, UCONN or Cincinnati has knocked out their visiting alumni and made the number of quality games infinitely less exciting.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 10, 2016, 12:07:45 PM
It's Omaha. There are no major league pro sports. If you want to take a client to a sporting event a couple of times a year, what other choices do you have? Creighton is getting business that in Milwaukee would go to the Bucks, Admirals, or even Brewers.
One other point is that Creighton is perceived as prestigious school locally and many people go to the games to be associated with the Creighton brand. Many people drive in from other places in Nebraska and stay overnight as there are a lot of good hotels within walking distance of the Century Link center.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 10, 2016, 08:36:40 PM
You know, that is indeed conventional wisdom. New stadium, new excitement. I can imagine an amount of people thinking a MU bball game is the "cheap" way to see the new stadium versus paying some stupid amount to see the Bucks' play.
But .. I can't imagine that generating many new MU season ticket holders. Maybe upstairs BC people see an opportunity to move downstairs (and pay more). Just not sure that a significant chunk of people are right on the edge of buying a season and that new stadium is pushing them over. Time will tell.
I think that's right. What got chick and I in were $99 seats. I remember the conversation. Right now we wouldn't go to the lower bowl because of the price. Our choice in 18 will be interesting.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on June 11, 2016, 04:25:44 AM
While we're on the subject of attendance, I recall that a few posters in threads concerning scheduling reported a fair amount of griping amoung their season ticket holding friends regarding not renewing. Does anyone care to hazard a guess about what will happen with next year's attendance? Was there a "Henry Ellenson effect" last year where people kept their tickets or came on board for a year to see MU's first one and done?
Here's what I know. Our rescheduling appointment slid back 2 full days this year. We improved our seats by one row. And we're in arguably the most attractive upper deck seats.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on June 11, 2016, 09:59:11 AM
None of that is known when season ticket holders sign up, however...or even when the smaller packs go on sale. It is product on the floor, recruiting, hype (which Wojo is poor at in comparison to Crean or Buzz), and last season's schedule/performance (especially post-season) that are in your consideration set. Start times, weather are just reasons not to show up. Walk up sales are a small part of revenue nowadays, especially with the school's gone from the Old Big East.
Maybe just the parenthetical, but I think this is an important point. I wonder what Duke was like before they started cutting down nets. Coach K doesn't seem like much of a salesman either when it comes to the fans. Wojo definitely seems to emulate a number of his tendencies. Now they have the whole Krzyzewskiville thing rocking. That seemed to start after he got them to a few tournaments and during a season (1986) when they were in the top-10 all season long.
Obviously winning helps, but I have a feeling Wojo will have to sell results, because I'm not sure he has that "pitch to the masses" mindset that sets some coaches (Crean especially) apart.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on June 11, 2016, 09:59:11 AM
None of that is known when season ticket holders sign up, however...or even when the smaller packs go on sale. It is product on the floor, recruiting, hype (which Wojo is poor at in comparison to Crean or Buzz), and last season's schedule/performance (especially post-season) that are in your consideration set. Start times, weather are just reasons not to show up. Walk up sales are a small part of revenue nowadays, especially with the school's gone from the Old Big East.
We disagree here.
You are placing all importance on the season ticket holders. That is faulty analysis.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 11, 2016, 05:57:14 PM
We disagree here.
You are placing all importance on the season ticket holders. That is faulty analysis.
No. STH (including students) + Pack holders (including single game packs). All bought well in advance of the season.
Well .. The average was 13308 ..
A good estimation of STH seats is to look at the attendance of a mid-week cupcake game, like Grambling State last December was 11618 where there was conceivably zero walk-up sales.
So .. 13308 average for the year -11618 = ~1700 average walk ups per game.
So .. 87% of all attendance is STH, 13% is walk-up.
As for attendance growth or decline .. since there's ~20 games a year, ONE STH counts as 20 walk up sales -- and the opposite .. ONE lost STH is -20 walk-ups.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2016, 08:03:02 PM
Well .. The average was 13308 ..
A good estimation of STH seats is to look at the attendance of a mid-week cupcake game, like Grambling State last December was 11618 where there was conceivably zero walk-up sales.
So .. 13308 average for the year -11618 = ~1700 average walk ups per game.
So .. 87% of all attendance is STH, 13% is walk-up.
As for attendance growth or decline .. since there's ~20 games a year, ONE STH counts as 20 walk up sales -- and the opposite .. ONE lost STH is -20 walk-ups.
This is good info, I think spot on.
Everyone knows it's significantly cheaper to keep a customer than find a new one. If I were MU, or any sports team, I'd never put a price point on a ticket. If I was in the MU athletic department, and I was losing a upper bowl STH, I'd ask them "how much do you want to pay?". First year out of MU, I'd make an offer to those grads to match what their student season ticket price for that first year.
1>0, and if you can get 1 to commit to paying for 18 home games (or whatever the amount is), even if it's slightly below what your market metrics might indicate for price, do it.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2016, 08:03:02 PM
Well .. The average was 13308 ..
A good estimation of STH seats is to look at the attendance of a mid-week cupcake game, like Grambling State last December was 11618 where there was conceivably zero walk-up sales.
So .. 13308 average for the year -11618 = ~1700 average walk ups per game.
So .. 87% of all attendance is STH, 13% is walk-up.
As for attendance growth or decline .. since there's ~20 games a year, ONE STH counts as 20 walk up sales -- and the opposite .. ONE lost STH is -20 walk-ups.
And in the "favored game" and Big East packs and it is north of 95%.
I think one of the things we need to do is to consult with Creighton and understand how they have marketed themselves so well to the community in Omaha. The games really had that feel like it was the place to see and be seen. Many of the people had no ties to Creighton either.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on June 11, 2016, 11:06:04 PM
I think one of the things we need to do is to consult with Creighton and understand how they have marketed themselves so well to the community in Omaha. The games really had that feel like it was the place to see and be seen. Many of the people had no ties to Creighton either.
That's not a half bad idea .. if we could get the Brewers, Bucks, and UW sports to move out of state, we could be Omaha and reap the benefits! 8-)
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on June 11, 2016, 11:06:04 PM
I think one of the things we need to do is to consult with Creighton and understand how they have marketed themselves so well to the community in Omaha. The games really had that feel like it was the place to see and be seen. Many of the people had no ties to Creighton either.
Only game in town, MU will never be like Creighton nor will Omaha be as diversed as a town like Milwaukee. Plus the Packers dominate the state in sports interest.
So MU has to put there best forward to be competitive or they will become UWM.
Quote from: HoopsterBC on June 12, 2016, 02:57:41 PM
Only game in town, MU will never be like Creighton nor will Omaha be as diversed as a town like Milwaukee. Plus the Packers dominate the state in sports interest.
So MU has to put there best forward to be competitive or they will become UWM.
MU could purposefully start throwing seasons and it wouldn't even come close to falling to UWM's level.
I echo brandx's challenge. Say something positive about MU. Just once!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 12, 2016, 03:12:48 PM
MU could purposefully start throwing seasons and it wouldn't even come close to falling to UWM's level.
I echo brandx's challenge. Say something positive about MU. Just once!
I say a lot of good on here as well as questionable. If MU stopped throwing millions on there basketball team they would be UWM, sorry to say. So would any other
program. MU if not mistaken did that after Majerus and before Crean, it was a bad time if you remember. When I got to know Mike Deane, I asked him about 3 recruits that year, Polanowski, Mike Bargen and the center from upnorth. I knew then he would not last at MU, and Dukiet, for sure did not last. Thank God for Kevin O'Neal and TC and the administration for understanding that basketball was important. And DWade for getting MU the new Al McGuire center. MU basketball is big
business, now it is time for Wojo to put it together. Did I say earlier today, it is great Howard is playing great at the US17 try-out, what do you want me to say?
Quote from: HoopsterBC on June 12, 2016, 02:57:41 PM
Only game in town, MU will never be like Creighton nor will Omaha be as diversed as a town like Milwaukee. Plus the Packers dominate the state in sports interest.
So MU has to put there best forward to be competitive or they will become UWM.
Nebraska Football is dominant in the state and now that they are in the Big Ten the basketball team is drawing well too. Creighton has to compete against that. Baseball season begins after basketball ends. But there is an apples to apples comp there too which is that Omaha has the College World Series .
Milwaukee is over twice the size of Omaha and so bigger market to work with. Obviously winning will cure a lot but also I think there are things we can be doing with local schools and community organizations to build long term affinity to MU. Now is the time to really think this stuff through with the new arena coming in.
Sports fans in Milwaukee have far more options than those in Omaha. To one degree or another, Marquette basketball competes with:
Milwaukee Bucks NBA basketball
Wisconsin Badgers college basketball
UW-Milwaukee Panthers college basketball
Green Bay Packers NFL football
Wisconsin Badgers college football
Milwaukee Admirals hockey
Milwaukee Wave soccer
Milwaukee Brewers baseball
Creighton competes with the University of Nebraska Cornhuskers, similar to our rivalry with UW, and the University of Nebraska-Omaha Mavericks (Division I basketball and hockey). Beyond that, it's pretty much indoor football and minor league baseball. No NBA basketball, no NFL football, no MLB baseball, no pro hockey, no pro indoor soccer.
There's obviously progress to be made when it comes to Marquette attendance. But we're still among the top programs in the Big East and Division I. Let's see where things stand in another couple years.
Quote from: HoopsterBC on June 12, 2016, 03:41:02 PM
I say a lot of good on here as well as questionable.
Really? When was this?
Quote from: HoopsterBC on June 12, 2016, 03:41:02 PM
If MU stopped throwing millions on there basketball team they would be UWM, sorry to say. So would any other
program. MU if not mistaken did that after Majerus and before Crean, it was a bad time if you remember. When I got to know Mike Deane, I asked him about 3 recruits that year, Polanowski, Mike Bargen and the center from upnorth. I knew then he would not last at MU, and Dukiet, for sure did not last. Thank God for Kevin O'Neal and TC and the administration for understanding that basketball was important. And DWade for getting MU the new Al McGuire center. MU basketball is big
business, now it is time for Wojo to put it together. Did I say earlier today, it is great Howard is playing great at the US17 try-out, what do you want me to say?
Yet even during the dark days of Dukiet, MU was leagues above where UWM has ever dreamed to reach.
Quote from: Marcus92 on June 12, 2016, 06:59:42 PM
Sports fans in Milwaukee have far more options than those in Omaha. To one degree or another, Marquette basketball competes with:
Milwaukee Bucks NBA basketball
Wisconsin Badgers college basketball
UW-Milwaukee Panthers college basketball
Green Bay Packers NFL football
Wisconsin Badgers college football
Milwaukee Admirals hockey
Milwaukee Wave soccer
Milwaukee Brewers baseball
Creighton competes with the University of Nebraska Cornhuskers, similar to our rivalry with UW, and the University of Nebraska-Omaha Mavericks (Division I basketball and hockey). Beyond that, it's pretty much indoor football and minor league baseball. No NBA basketball, no NFL football, no MLB baseball, no pro hockey, no pro indoor soccer.
There's obviously progress to be made when it comes to Marquette attendance. But we're still among the top programs in the Big East and Division I. Let's see where things stand in another couple years.
College World Series is there every year and the KC Royals and KC Chiefs are a short drive away. Yes Milwaukee has more options but also over a 1 million more people.
I am happy with our attendance. I just think it is worth exploring how Creighton does things. I have been to several of their games and am amazed at how they pull the people in .
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on June 12, 2016, 11:38:15 PM
College World Series is there every year and the KC Royals and KC Chiefs are a short drive away. Yes Milwaukee has more options but also over a 1 million more people.
I am happy with our attendance. I just think it is worth exploring how Creighton does things. I have been to several of their games and am amazed at how they pull the people in .
Three hour drive one way is not short for a sporting event. The College World Series doesn't come close to overlapping Creighton's season. Jays get 16,000 a game, which is outstanding, but it's not like they're Syracuse.
As ever, you're wide of the mark on a subject.
Quote from: Marcus92 on June 12, 2016, 06:59:42 PM
Sports fans in Milwaukee have far more options than those in Omaha. To one degree or another, Marquette basketball competes with:
Milwaukee Bucks NBA basketball
Wisconsin Badgers college basketball
UW-Milwaukee Panthers college basketball
Green Bay Packers NFL football
Wisconsin Badgers college football
Milwaukee Admirals hockey
Milwaukee Wave soccer
Milwaukee Brewers baseball
Creighton competes with the University of Nebraska Cornhuskers, similar to our rivalry with UW, and the University of Nebraska-Omaha Mavericks (Division I basketball and hockey). Beyond that, it's pretty much indoor football and minor league baseball. No NBA basketball, no NFL football, no MLB baseball, no pro hockey, no pro indoor soccer.
There's obviously progress to be made when it comes to Marquette attendance. But we're still among the top programs in the Big East and Division I. Let's see where things stand in another couple years.
you forgot the Brew City Bruisers!
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2016, 08:03:02 PM
Well .. The average was 13308 ..
A good estimation of STH seats is to look at the attendance of a mid-week cupcake game, like Grambling State last December was 11618 where there was conceivably zero walk-up sales.
So .. 13308 average for the year -11618 = ~1700 average walk ups per game.
So .. 87% of all attendance is STH, 13% is walk-up.
As for attendance growth or decline .. since there's ~20 games a year, ONE STH counts as 20 walk up sales -- and the opposite .. ONE lost STH is -20 walk-ups.
Well done topper. And since working on my phone makes this difficult, be good to see the same calculations for '14-'15.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 11, 2016, 08:03:02 PM
Well .. The average was 13308 ..
A good estimation of STH seats is to look at the attendance of a mid-week cupcake game, like Grambling State last December was 11618 where there was conceivably zero walk-up sales.
So .. 13308 average for the year -11618 = ~1700 average walk ups per game.
So .. 87% of all attendance is STH, 13% is walk-up.
As for attendance growth or decline .. since there's ~20 games a year, ONE STH counts as 20 walk up sales -- and the opposite .. ONE lost STH is -20 walk-ups.
"Conceivably zero"???
No, there were not zero.
Your analysis of 20:1 is also silly
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on June 12, 2016, 11:38:15 PMI just think it is worth exploring how Creighton does things. I have been to several of their games and am amazed at how they pull the people in .
Great point and couldn't agree more. Big East teams should be benchmarking to share the best ideas about how to build their programs.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 13, 2016, 10:31:46 AM
"Conceivably zero"???
No, there were not zero.
Your analysis of 20:1 is also silly
Mmkay, could you expand on that?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 13, 2016, 11:47:16 AM
Mmkay, could you expand on that?
It doesn't make any sense.
Here's the question: how many season tickets were sold?
Is your answer, "I don't know, but I am guessing there were close to zero non-season tickets purchased for Grambling"?
Sounds like a wild guess.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 13, 2016, 10:31:46 AM
"Conceivably zero"???
No, there were not zero.
Your analysis of 20:1 is also silly
Why is this board getting so assclownish?Topper meant fewer than 100, not worth counting. Everyone understands, his point stands, and you, sir, are simply being a D.
Quote from: jsglow on June 13, 2016, 12:29:49 PM
Why is this board getting so assclownish?Topper meant fewer than 100, not worth counting. Everyone understands, his point stands, and you, sir, are simply being a D.
He meant fewer than 100? I don't believe that is the right number, if that's what he meant. How do you get to such a small number?
One other factor with Creighton (my daughter is a senior), students get in for free (as they do for the soccer games which are huge there). It is a great perk for students who have really enjoyed the increased visibility and competition since joining the Big East...drives up attendance...and adds to a lively atmosphere. With a full student section at most games plus a community that really supports them (and an arena right by campus and downtown) the environment is great.
I always wished MU would do something similar for students but it is a much larger enrollment and probably impossible to do economically or logistically.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 13, 2016, 12:31:43 PM
He meant fewer than 100? I don't believe that is the right number, if that's what he meant. How do you get to such a small number?
Conceivably zero. A handful. Maybe 100. Heck, double that to 200 or 500, and the %ages barely change.
Ok, how many walk-ups do you think plunked down full retail on a Grambling State on a dark December Wednesday during a weak season?
And aren't these hearty bball enthusiasts scalping tickets with the secondary market awash in discounts? I couldn't sell any cupcake game for more than $10 a seat for lowers.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 13, 2016, 01:54:00 PM
Conceivably zero. A handful. Maybe 100. Heck, double that to 200 or 500, and the %ages barely change.
Ok, how many walk-ups do you think plunked down full retail on a Grambling State on a dark December Wednesday during a weak season?
And aren't these hearty bball enthusiasts scalping tickets with the secondary market awash in discounts? I couldn't sell any cupcake game for more than $10 a seat for lowers.
Accepting 500, you just dropped your estimate of season ticket holders by 4.3% without giving it a second thought. That's not insignificant... what if the real figure is 1,000? 1,500? 2,000?
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on June 13, 2016, 09:01:24 AM
Three hour drive one way is not short for a sporting event. The College World Series doesn't come close to overlapping Creighton's season. Jays get 16,000 a game, which is outstanding, but it's not like they're Syracuse.
As ever, you're wide of the mark on a subject.
You were not reading the whole chain of comments. College World Series and KC Royals combined is a comp to the Brewers in Milwaukee that was Cited. Chiefs a comp to the Packers and yes Nebraska people make the trek for those events and are very loyal to the Royals. Just pointing out some apples to apples comparisons on the notion that there is no competition for the sports dollar in Omaha versus Milwaukee. The only real difference is the Bucks. Yet we have a 1,000,000 more people to draw from.
Not saying anything other than we should explore some of Creighton marketing mechanisms. They have a very dedicated and consistent fan support . I was at a very lousy game in December with the entire place every seat filled.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on June 13, 2016, 02:49:46 PM
You were not reading the whole chain of comments. College World Series and KC Royals combined is a comp to the Brewers in Milwaukee that was Cited. Chiefs a comp to the Packers and yes Nebraska people make the trek for those events and are very loyal to the Royals. Just pointing out some apples to apples comparisons on the notion that there is no competition for the sports dollar in Omaha versus Milwaukee.
So you are saying that the Kansas City Royals, who are located nearly 200 miles away from Omaha, provide an apples to apples comparison to the Brewers who are actually in Milwaukee?
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 13, 2016, 02:29:20 PM
Accepting 500, you just dropped your estimate of season ticket holders by 4.3% without giving it a second thought. That's not insignificant... what if the real figure is 1,000? 1,500? 2,000?
I don't accept 500. I think it's very close to zero people buying a walk-up on a Wednesday cupcake in December, especially with a flood of scalpers around. You apparently disagree, but won't divulge your very superior opinion.
I also don't think 4.3% or even triple that theoretical error significantly changes the thesis: season ticket holders account for the VAST amount of ticket sales. My guess was 87%. Again, what do you think?
There is a difference between a "walk up," which IMO are people literally walking up to buy tickets. I agree there are not many of those.
However I think there would be at least 500 people buying an advance single game ticket to Grambling...or any other game.
I thought I saw somewhere a few years ago that there were about 5,000 season ticket holders. Sounded low but that's what I recall. Might be wrong. Don't know
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 13, 2016, 03:29:04 PM
There is a difference between a "walk up," which IMO are people literally walking up to buy tickets. I agree there are not many of those.
However I think there would be at least 500 people buying an advance single game ticket to Grambling...or any other game.
Exactly.
Hilltopper is throwing out a guess with nothing to support it but his gut. He may be right, but I don't believe it.
Would be nice to find out how many season ticket holders there were last year and prior years... can anyone hook that information up (besides Topper and his 'only STH seats were used for the Grambling game' calc)?
Teams use crap like Groupon, small combo packs, etc.. I don't know if MU did anything like that last year.. but.. I just don't believe the "well there's basically no seats used for Grambling other than STH seats and therefore, the attendance at that game gives you the STH seats" theory.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 13, 2016, 04:37:02 PM
Exactly.
Hilltopper is throwing out a guess with nothing to support it but his gut. He may be right, but I don't believe it.
And so, what's your guess?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on June 13, 2016, 02:49:46 PM
You were not reading the whole chain of comments. College World Series and KC Royals combined is a comp to the Brewers in Milwaukee that was Cited. Chiefs a comp to the Packers and yes Nebraska people make the trek for those events and are very loyal to the Royals. Just pointing out some apples to apples comparisons on the notion that there is no competition for the sports dollar in Omaha versus Milwaukee. The only real difference is the Bucks. Yet we have a 1,000,000 more people to draw from.
Not saying anything other than we should explore some of Creighton marketing mechanisms. They have a very dedicated and consistent fan support . I was at a very lousy game in December with the entire place every seat filled.
I've been going to Omaha for 25 years and this is compete nonsense. Apples to apples, my ass. You're not even in the same orchard.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on June 13, 2016, 08:25:43 PM
I've been going to Omaha for 25 years and this is compete nonsense. Apples to apples, my ass. You're not even in the same orchard.
So have I and I disagree with your analysis. By the way check out how far people travel to a Brewer Or Cub game and you will be surprised .
People are making it out as if there is nothing else to do in Omaha and that is why Creighton attendence is relatively high. There are plenty of other options for the sports dollar in Omaha.
The real point here is we spend 10 million on basketball and we deserve a first class marketing effort to get our seats filled. That 8-)is not happening and I feel there is room for improvement.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 13, 2016, 01:54:00 PM
Conceivably zero. A handful. Maybe 100. Heck, double that to 200 or 500, and the %ages barely change.
Ok, how many walk-ups do you think plunked down full retail on a Grambling State on a dark December Wednesday during a weak season?
And aren't these hearty bball enthusiasts scalping tickets with the secondary market awash in discounts? I couldn't sell any cupcake game for more than $10 a seat for lowers.
There is no way it was close to 500. That game was a ghost town, especially in the upper decks. The lowers aren't available for walk-up sales and the upper deck was empty. At most 4,000 people in the stands and 90% were lower bowl. I think 100 walk-ups would be a gross overexaggeration. The weather also sucked, right around freezing with a rain/sleet mix. That was one of the worst attended games I've ever been to.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 13, 2016, 06:25:36 PM
And so, what's your guess?
Jay Bee don't play that game.
If there are offical MU attendance figures with a STH/walkup breakout anywhere on the internet, we'll hear something from him eventually. If not, he'll just continue to poke holes in the methdology of others until such figures are available. For better or worse, that's Jay Bee.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 13, 2016, 10:08:30 PM
There is no way it was close to 500. That game was a ghost town, especially in the upper decks. The lowers aren't available for walk-up sales and the upper deck was empty. At most 4,000 people in the stands and 90% were lower bowl. I think 100 walk-ups would be a gross overexaggeration. The weather also sucked, right around freezing with a rain/sleet mix. That was one of the worst attended games I've ever been to.
A great description of what a bummer of a game Grambling was. While Grambling met two important criteria - 1) They were unlikely to beat even a freshman based team, and 2) they were willling to play a buy game - such games do have a negative effect on the MU basketball brand, and as the scheduling discussions have indicated they devalue season tickets.
Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.
Brew77... I'm looking your way.
Quote from: Benny B on June 14, 2016, 08:59:02 AM
Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.
Brew77... I'm looking your way.
Invalid analysis. Your opponent's RPI does not impact your own.
Quote from: Benny B on June 14, 2016, 08:59:02 AM
Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.
Using RPI Wizard, I dropped the following teams from Marquette's schedule:
Grambling (350)
Maine (317)
Chicago State (348)
Presbyterian (319)
Stetson (303)
I then added:
Murray State (170)
Hampton (160)
Tennessee State (150)
UNC Asheville (140)
Columbia (130)
If they win all four, their RPI would have been 71. If they win all but the Murray State game, their RPI would have been 79. (Their actual RPI was 110)
Enough to get them into the NIT but not the NCAA.
Every year there is one game that serves as a proxy for season tickets sold as the sale of an individual ticket for that game approaches zero. For a game like Gambling, that number might be 10 or 50 but there is zero chance that it is 500. Brew was right. I could have counted everyone there by halftime. Heck, I would have made a dent simply by counting chick and I.
I'm not sure how often some of you get to games at the BC. But if you're watching from afar on your 55 inch, I suggest deferring to folks who are there every night when ticket discussions pop up.
Quote from: Benny B on June 14, 2016, 08:59:02 AM
Has somebody yet run the analysis of the RPI impact between going 10-0 vs. the RPI 250+ and going 8-2 vs. the RPI 100-200.
Brew77... I'm looking your way.
Jay Bee is right that RPI isn't the actual calculation, but in terms of scheduling teams expected to be better, Sultan is also right that it would have only taken adjusting 4-5 teams to get us into the NIT, and put us in a position that had we got a winning Big East record (say beat DePaul and Creighton) we would have been dancing.
I'm actually working on a much bigger project regarding scheduling, but that's a whole different headache.
Quote from: jsglow on June 14, 2016, 11:53:06 AM
Every year there is one game that serves as a proxy for season tickets sold as the sale of an individual ticket for that game approaches zero. For a game like Gambling, that number might be 10 or 50 but there is zero chance that it is 500. Brew was right. I could have counted everyone there by halftime. Heck, I would have made a dent simply by counting chick and I.
I'm not sure how often some of you get to games at the BC. But if you're watching from afar on your 55 inch, I suggest deferring to folks who are there every night when ticket discussions pop up.
If attendance is based on tickets sold, then why would those who attend every game have done superior knowledge as to all "ticket discussions"?
There is not "zero chance" that there were 500 non-season tickets sold for the Grambling game. You're guessing without a logical basis.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 14, 2016, 02:21:07 PM
If attendance is based on tickets sold, then why would those who attend every game have done superior knowledge as to all "ticket discussions"?
There is not "zero chance" that there were 500 non-season tickets sold for the Grambling game. You're guessing without a logical basis.
Yeah. You're right. ::)
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 14, 2016, 02:21:07 PM
If attendance is based on tickets sold, then why would those who attend every game have done superior knowledge as to all "ticket discussions"?
There is not "zero chance" that there were 500 non-season tickets sold for the Grambling game. You're guessing without a logical basis.
Still waiting for your guess. Or are you just a troll?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 14, 2016, 02:39:08 PM
Still waiting for your guess. Or are you just a troll?
Why would I need to provide a guess? I'm simply stating that your "methodology" is crap.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 14, 2016, 11:35:28 AM
Invalid analysis. Your opponent's RPI does not impact your own.
Your opponent's record impacts your RPI, and at some point a loss against a team with a mediocre record has a far more negative impact on your own RPI than several wins against teams with poor records.
Does anyone here think we'll ever see the demise of RPI?
For well over a decade, I've heard basketball experts say that it's a questionable (if not downright flawed) statistic. Many other models/systems available today are more accurate in predicting who wins a head-to-head matchup. But RPI is still widely cited and used when assessing the relative quality of teams.
What gives?
Quote from: Marcus92 on June 14, 2016, 11:03:11 PM
Does anyone here think we'll ever see the demise of RPI?
For well over a decade, I've heard basketball experts say that it's a questionable (if not downright flawed) statistic. Many other models/systems available today are more accurate in predicting who wins a head-to-head matchup. But RPI is still widely cited and used when assessing the relative quality of teams.
What gives?
RPI is less about ranking teams and more about ranking what they have done in a season.
Quote from: Benny B on June 14, 2016, 10:36:40 PM
Your opponent's record impacts your RPI, and at some point a loss against a team with a mediocre record has a far more negative impact on your own RPI than several wins against teams with poor records.
Yes; however, a team with a 250 RPI can have a better record than a team with a 200 RPI and be more beneficial for you to play with regard to RPI impact.
Because, again, your opponent's RPI doesn't impact yours.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 14, 2016, 03:01:22 PM
Why would I need to provide a guess? I'm simply stating that your "methodology" is crap.
Methodology for an answer is different than methodology for a good guess, right? I've made a good guess. I think I'm pretty close, and am OK with its margin of error.
You think my "guessing methodology" isn't good, so .. share your better guess.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 15, 2016, 07:56:45 AM
Methodology for an answer is different than methodology for a good guess, right? I've made a good guess. I think I'm pretty close, and am OK with its margin of error.
You think my "guessing methodology" isn't good, so .. share your better guess.
I'm not attempting to guess the # of STH's. Your guess is approx 11,618. I believe it could be 500 or more than 500 less than that. You don't.
I don't know the answer, but I know how you got to your guess is blasphemous & tragic!!!
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
I'm not attempting to guess the # of STH's. Your guess is approx 11,618. I believe it could be 500 or more than 500 less than that. You don't.
I don't know the answer, but I know how you got to your guess is blasphemous & tragic!!!
I don't know the answer, either. I'm guessing. So, what's your guess?
And how is this "blasphemous" or "tragic"?
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2016, 12:29:11 AM
Yes; however, a team with a 250 RPI can have a better record than a team with a 200 RPI and be more beneficial for you to play with regard to RPI impact.
Because, again, your opponent's RPI doesn't impact yours.
I was simply using "RPI XXX" as a proxy to distinguish between cupcakes the likes of what MU has scheduled over the past few years and the mid-majors that some are crying out to see more of.
In other words, if MU schedules 10 games against mid-major teams that end up with decent records (and play a bunch of opponents with decent records), how many losses could MU withstand before RPI is worse than had they scheduled - and go 10-0 against - low-major cupcakes (that played a bunch of other low-major cupcakes)?
Can I just say that you guys argue about the stupidest crap?
Quote from: warriorchick on June 15, 2016, 12:45:35 PM
Can I just say that you guys argue about the stupidest crap?
Amen.
Now let's get back to to arguing about things that matter, like the effectiveness of changing our user name's to include the name of a recruit!
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
I'm not attempting to guess the # of STH's. Your guess is approx 11,618. I believe it could be 500 or more than 500 less than that. You don't.
I don't know the answer, but I know how you got to your guess is blasphemous & tragic!!!
That's some impressive hyperbole you got there.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
I'm not attempting to guess the # of STH's. Your guess is approx 11,618. I believe it could be 500 or more than 500 less than that. You don't.
I don't know the answer, but I know how you got to your guess is blasphemous & tragic!!!
We aren't putting someone into space. 95-96% of the actual number is pretty darn close.
I don't know how many walk ups there ended up being for the Grambling game, but Crystal Bowl was predicting 342.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2016, 02:45:29 PM
We aren't putting someone into space. 95-96% of the actual number is pretty darn close.
But it may be more like 90%.
That said, is 95% 'pretty darn close'?
That's like the guys who praise themselves because they got 66/68 of the NCAA tourney teams "correct" (despite all the autobids, and sure shots.. whooopty-do)
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2016, 03:02:25 PM
But it may be more like 90%.
That said, is 95% 'pretty darn close'?
That's like the guys who praise themselves because they got 66/68 of the NCAA tourney teams "correct" (despite all the autobids, and sure shots.. whooopty-do)
So what exactly was your guess of "500 or more than 500 less than that" based on then. Now its 1000 - what changed?
Quote from: warriorchick on June 15, 2016, 12:45:35 PM
Can I just say that you guys argue about the stupidest crap?
Actually, to the extent that i) a school is in control of >67% of its OOC schedule and ii) your OOC schedule can make or break your chances of an at-large tourney bid, I would say the topic of scheduling and RPI is pretty much the complete opposite of "stupid crap."
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 15, 2016, 03:04:23 PM
So what exactly was your guess of "500 or more than 500 less than that" based on then. Now its 1000 - what changed?
Nothing at all has changed.
That wasn't my guess. Hilltopper said there was "zero chance" of there being 500 less. I disagreed. There is a chance.. and what if it's double that? Is there a chance it's 1,000? Yes.
Is it 500? Is it 1,000? Is it more? I don't know. Any of them are possible.
What I do not believe is that there is "zero chance" of there being 500 less.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 15, 2016, 12:45:35 PM
Can I just say that you guys argue about the stupidest crap?
Disagreeing is one thing, but when it's accompanied by a slap down... well, the discussion tends to continue.
Quote from: Benny B on June 15, 2016, 03:08:44 PM
Actually, to the extent that i) a school is in control of >67% of its OOC schedule and ii) your OOC schedule can make or break your chances of an at-large tourney bid, I would say the topic of scheduling and RPI is pretty much the complete opposite of "stupid crap."
That's not the only argument happening in this thread -- or on this board.
So glad I am a chick; I never feel the need to assert that my Johnson is bigger than everyone else's.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 15, 2016, 04:34:48 PM
That's not the only argument happening in this thread -- or on this board.
So glad I am a chick; I never feel the need to assert that my Johnson is bigger than everyone else's.
We're glad, too. When arguing, men throw a few punches and then it's over; women, however, grab, claw, scratch, pull, kick, gouge and bite... seven things that don't belong anywhere in the vicinity of a johnson-measuring contest.
I am completely confident walk-ups for Grambling were less than 200, and I feel fairly confident it was less than half that. My reasoning is because all the season tickets were sold and looking around the stadium, at least 90% of the fans were in the lower bowl and the vast majority of the pittance of people in the upper bowl seats were in the center sections.
All of the lower bowl seats are season ticket holders, so there weren't walk-ups in those seats, and the vast majority of center upper bowl seats are also STHs. The walk-up tickets are higher up in the corners and end zones. Quite simply, where the people were sitting to start the game were not in the seats that are available for walk-up purchase. Now some may have admittedly bought them and moved, but usually those moves are made after the tip and they at least start in the right section. Those sections were vacant, hence I am confident the number of walk-ups was minimal.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 15, 2016, 09:17:12 PM
I am completely confident walk-ups for Grambling were less than 200, and I feel fairly confident it was less than half that. My reasoning is because all the season tickets were sold and looking around the stadium, at least 90% of the fans were in the lower bowl and the vast majority of the pittance of people in the upper bowl seats were in the center sections.
All of the lower bowl seats are season ticket holders, so there weren't walk-ups in those seats, and the vast majority of center upper bowl seats are also STHs. The walk-up tickets are higher up in the corners and end zones. Quite simply, where the people were sitting to start the game were not in the seats that are available for walk-up purchase. Now some may have admittedly bought them and moved, but usually those moves are made after the tip and they at least start in the right section. Those sections were vacant, hence I am confident the number of walk-ups was minimal.
Let's be careful here with language. Are you saying you're "completely confident" that MU had at least 11,418 season tickets sold last season?
Your analysis has its faults. Big ones.
Could your conclusion - if it's "11,418 or more season tickets were sold for last season" - be correct? It's in play.
However, your analysis doesn't get me any closer to believing it.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2016, 09:34:55 PM
Let's be careful here with language. Are you saying you're "completely confident" that MU had at least 11,418 season tickets sold last season?
Your analysis has its faults. Big ones.
Could your conclusion - if it's "11,418 or more season tickets were sold for last season" - be correct? It's in play.
However, your analysis doesn't get me any closer to believing it.
I could care less about the numbers. Someone pulled 11,418 from somewhere and I could not care less. There were not fans in the end zones or the corners. They simply weren't there. It was a terribly attended game. Between the opponent, the lousy weather, and the day of week coupled with timing, people didn't show up. STHs didn't show up and sure as hell there weren't many walking up.
You can quibble about language all you like, but you weren't there. The BC looked more sparsely populated than some of the vacant buildings we have in the 53206. If you want to say there were 500 walk-ups there, then you're asserting more than 10% of the total attendance was walk-up purchases, because no matter what number Marquette spits out for sold tickets, there weren't more than 5,000 in the building.
Somebody call Joe True and get this settled.Let's come up with a bet that gets some coin to Blue $ Gold.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 15, 2016, 10:46:46 PM
I could care less about the numbers. Someone pulled 11,418 from somewhere and I could not care less. There were not fans in the end zones or the corners. They simply weren't there. It was a terribly attended game. Between the opponent, the lousy weather, and the day of week coupled with timing, people didn't show up. STHs didn't show up and sure as hell there weren't many walking up.
You can quibble about language all you like, but you weren't there. The BC looked more sparsely populated than some of the vacant buildings we have in the 53206. If you want to say there were 500 walk-ups there, then you're asserting more than 10% of the total attendance was walk-up purchases, because no matter what number Marquette spits out for sold tickets, there weren't more than 5,000 in the building.
You're completely misunderstanding the discussion and are talking about something completely different.
This has never been a discussion about how many people walked up and purchased tickets the day of that game.
This has never been about how many folks physically attended the game.
You're way out in left with your post. Waaaaaay off-topic.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 15, 2016, 09:17:12 PM
The walk-up tickets are higher up in the corners and end zones. Quite simply, where the people were sitting to start the game were not in the seats that are available for walk-up purchase. Now some may have admittedly bought them and moved, but usually those moves are made after the tip and they at least start in the right section. Those sections were vacant, hence I am confident the number of walk-ups was minimal.
We had tickets in a $125 endzone section and we always sat in the center uppers to start the game. Why move after the tip? Only move if someone comes to the seats you borrowed, which actually never happened once last year, total waste of $ to buy ST in the center uppers until the BC gets crowded again.
Quote from: jsglow on June 15, 2016, 11:52:22 PM
Somebody call Joe True and get this settled.Let's come up with a bet that gets some coin to Blue $ Gold.
Please do. Topper especially has such a bizarre and woefully simple methodology that can't be trusted.
brewcity77 and you are talking about things that don't matter in the discussion.
Topper says 11,618 is the STH number because that was paid attendance for the Grambling game.. obviously wrong. How wrong is he?
Could it be more than 500 wrong? OF COURSE!
There are many reasons why...
...but think of some potentially big-hitters. There are suites with different prices for different games. If purchased, they went into the 11,618... but they are not season tickets. Is the belief that no way would a business or consumer want to have a nicely-priced suite to a Wednesday basketball game because the opponent was so terrible? Of course not. That's stupid thinking. Some purchase suites to conduct business or reward clients and employees. How many times have people gone to a game with a business associate because, "well even though the team they're playing sucks, it's a suite and I want to talk to person A"? Not unusual at all.
Groupon and other specials may be in play, donations, ATI Club, etc. Is it a crazy idea to think some parents want to take their 5 year old to a Marquette game and that Wednesday looked like a good date and there were some seats on the aisle available when they looked before the season started and so they scooped them up? How shocking would that be? Not at all.
What is the number?
Don't know.
But those dismissing the idea that there's a chance that the number of non STH tickets was in the hundreds - or more - for Grambling - is simple-minded and an absolute tragedy, surely representative of the struggles this country faces and is a bigger concern than climate change.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on June 16, 2016, 07:31:10 AM
We had tickets in a $125 endzone section and we always sat in the center uppers to start the game. Why move after the tip? Only move if someone comes to the seats you borrowed, which actually never happened once last year, total waste of $ to buy ST in the center uppers until the BC gets crowded again.
brewcity and common sense, as to this topic at least, don't overlap. His reasoning for something that hasn't even been a topic in this thread until he brought it up, is based on an assumption that everyone sits in their assigned seat, even if the building is less than one-third full. Guess he is just a moral fellow (and naive and wrong).
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 16, 2016, 07:36:07 AM
But those dismissing the idea that there's a chance that the number of non STH tickets was in the hundreds - or more - for Grambling - is simple-minded and an absolute tragedy, surely representative of the struggles this country faces and is a bigger concern than climate change.
And the trolling award of the year goes to ...
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 16, 2016, 07:36:07 AM
But those dismissing the idea that there's a chance that the number of non STH tickets was in the hundreds - or more - for Grambling - is simple-minded and an absolute tragedy, surely representative of the struggles this country faces and is a bigger concern than climate change.
(https://wronghands1.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/can-of-worms.jpg?w=500)