I got really sick to my stomach this past weekend talking to Marquette haters. They talked about blowing out UWM and how Tom Crean's pacing when Marquette is up 45 on Coppin State is inappropriate.... blah, blah, blah...
I come down on this differently. As a private school we cannot AFFORD to play only a first half hard.
We PAY large sums to play these cupcakes, and we PAY them only so we can get better. Having Tommy Brice play under the bright lights for 15 minutes won't make us better in the Tournament. Having Dominic James testing various plays versus various looks and defenses DOES make us better.
Despite the perception of wealth that Marquette has in the community... These are private dollars that I believe Tom Crean is maximizing by coaching through the finish. For that he should be applauded... Thoughts?
I think blowing out teams, or at least keeping the foot on the gas for most of the game is a good idea, too. However, I'm not following the money argument.
Playing hard, intense basketball is how you get better. The opponent knows this going into the game, and should be prepared for it. You are not doing yourself, or the opponent any favors by playing soft or sitting your players. I think Coppin State would be offended if we started the walk-ons and let them be in game for 20 minutes.
As for MU haters, I've learned there is nothing you can do with those people. People will hate MU for any number of reasons (take your pick: Catholic, private, perception of wealth, Milwaukee, percentage of outstate students, Jesuit, Crean, McGuire, doesn't bow to the almighty UW). Just turn the other cheek and keep offering them the opportunity to join the family.
I don't mind blowing out teams, but it just seems like this year we are playing a high number of cupcakes. I also think we should have played one or two more away games. I know that 98% of the athletic department's revenue comes from the home games, but I believe visiting another team on their turf during the non-conference portion of the season would have been good for the team.
no way...we play the same number of cupcakes every year. we just haven't been blowing them out of the water like this since dwyane wade was around...
Quote from: farmdaddy on December 24, 2007, 10:36:59 AM
I don't mind blowing out teams, but it just seems like this year we are playing a high number of cupcakes. I also think we should have played one or two more away games. I know that 98% of the athletic department's revenue comes from the home games, but I believe visiting another team on their turf during the non-conference portion of the season would have been good for the team.
Pittsburgh and Syracuse don't leave the Northeast until after the New Year every year, and they seem to do ok... I could see maybe since we are recruiting down south to play some SEC team (like an Auburn or Ole Miss) to show off our school, but other then that, no reason to leave the Bradley Center, get as many wins as possible
for instance... here is Pitt's schedule
http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=221
only time out of Pennsylvania/New York area was when they played Washington... the away game against Duke was at MSG
and Cuse's
http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=183
only time they left the state of New York was to play Virginia so far this year... the OSU game was at MSG
every team in powerhouse conferences and are at the top of the conference hardly leave home in non-conference schedule
We currently rank #12 in BE SOS----so we're not playing as good a preconference schedule as the others.
The downside of blowing out teams like Coopin and Savanah State----is that it can give the appearance that we are better than what we really are. Our uptempo style play is going to beat these teams by more points than half court offensive teams more often than not. TC was the happiest I've ever seen him after the Coppin game-----seemed very satisfied. So even to the coach, blowing out cupcakes makes it appear that we are super good when in fact things come much easier FOR US in creampuff games because of our uptempo style then if we were committed more to the half court game.
Have to keep things in perspective------blowing out a team by 50 points eventhough by more points than others has more to do with our style of play (uptempo on both sides of the ball) rather than with the quality of our team. When playing creampuffs----uptempo BB leverages our talent superiority!
Merry Christmas !
Quote from: Schoonts on December 24, 2007, 09:35:19 AM
I got really sick to my stomach this past weekend talking to Marquette haters. They talked about blowing out UWM and how Tom Crean's pacing when Marquette is up 45 on Coppin State is inappropriate.... blah, blah, blah...
I come down on this differently. As a private school we cannot AFFORD to play only a first half hard.
We PAY large sums to play these cupcakes, and we PAY them only so we can get better. Having Tommy Brice play under the bright lights for 15 minutes won't make us better in the Tournament. Having Dominic James testing various plays versus various looks and defenses DOES make us better.
Despite the perception of wealth that Marquette has in the community... These are private dollars that I believe Tom Crean is maximizing by coaching through the finish. For that he should be applauded... Thoughts?
It is expected!!
College sports is all about perception and whether you like it or not the name on the front of the jersey means more than anything and because we arent a state school our name still doesnt ring loudly so in order to get respect we need to blow out these cupckakes!!!!!
Quote from: Murffieus on December 24, 2007, 11:09:30 AM
The downside of blowing out teams like Coopin and Savanah State----is that it can give the appearance that we are better than what we really are.
Just curious--what appearance do we give when we beat Wisconsin at the Kohl and play Duke close?
I think the implication that our top 10 rank is somehow tainted because we blew out cupcakes is offset by the performance against Duke and Wisconsin
Well according to Spartan's post we dropped 2 spots in the AP poll after annihilating 2 cupcakes!
"The Money Argument" is predicated on the fact that we pay cupcakes a lot of money to come to play us, and that investment means that we should be playing our starters a good amount so that we can maximize the investment.
Does anyone know how much a team like Coppin State costs to bring in? I'm curious...
Quote from: Murffieus on December 24, 2007, 01:32:01 PM
Well according to Spartan's post we dropped 2 spots in the AP poll after annihilating 2 cupcakes!
But we picked up more votes than the previous week after beating those cupcakes. So actually people's opinion of MU improved from the previous week because of those cupcake wins.
Are teams catorgized by rankings or votes----seems to me that the ranking governs!
We have to schedule the cupcakes during this time for the home revenue to support our other sports. Students are out of school so tickets will go unsold anyway and cupcakes demand less $$ as they are trying to pad their RPI (and we are trying to pad our wins). It is a nice formula that seems to have worked, for better or worse. Football schools in the BE can do what they want as they get their $$ there. I think TC put together a great plan in both scheduling (quick turnaround games), rotations and running different sets throughout the Cupcake Season--including team & individual goal setting and time off. It is what it is.
That said, with the expanded BE schedule, I would really like to see the the conference schedule start sooner so other OOC games can be worked in throughout. This may lead to better TV and home match-ups. 18 BE games crammed in the back half can be detrimental via physical and mental fatigue, I feel.
Murff, first off, Merry Christmas to you and your family. Hope everyone has a happy, healthy New Year.
But I think TC was happiest after the Coppin win because of the way we executed. He knew we were going to win that game; it was how we played that satisfied him. Your argument about the schedule is tedious, though. No one in college ball scheduled more cupcakes than Al, and he seemed to do OK. We beat your beloved Bo (who we all know is God's gift to coaching) in his gym despite some of the worst officiating we will face all year. We played Duke tough and might have pulled that one, too, had the officials not listened to Coach K (who believes HE is God), so much. We are missing three key pieces to the puzzle and are still functioning pretty well. When we get Fitz and Cubes back, this could be the deepest MU team in memory. By the time the year ends, our SOS will be in the teens. That's plenty good enough,
ecompt----thank you-----merry Christmas to you and yours and a happy, healthy New Year as well.
Regarding TC being elated after Coppin State----I agree he was very happy with the execution, but would he have been so happy with the execution had we played Alabama or MSU or some similar team-----it's always easier to execute against inferior participants----but we'll never know had we played a better team how the execution would have been.
BTW---Al scheduled a couple of no name "creampuffs" at the beginning of the season-----but the other teams that we beat by 20 or so were NOT no name program teams. He did his homework----he'd play teams that had had good programs previously but who would be down in the years he scheduled them----that way he "conned" the public through the turnstyles.
Quote from: Murffieus on December 24, 2007, 03:23:45 PM
Are teams catorgized by rankings or votes----seems to me that the ranking governs!
Rankings don't happen in a vacuum. You have to look at the vote to get the total picture. If MU had dropped because they got less votes this week than last week, it would be one thing. But the fact that MU actually picked up votes this week despite dropping, shows that voters didn't have a problem with the teams MU was playing.
How do we get more votes yet fall-----it must be that overall more people voted which would mean that others got more votes as well!
Quote from: Murffieus on December 24, 2007, 06:14:50 PM
How do we get more votes yet fall-----it must be that overall more people voted which would mean that others got more votes as well!
Or could it mean that we separated ourselves from the teams below us? I don't know the actual numbers, but maybe last week some voters had us ranked in the 20s and others in the top 10 and it turned out we got ranked 10. This week, then, the SAME number of voters could have voted and we could've gotten more "votes" by the people who had us in the top 10 voting us in there again, but this time the people who had us in the 20s voted us into the top 15, giving us more points, or "votes." You get a certain amount of "votes" for the number that the voter puts you at. It's not like if you're in one person's ranking you get one vote no matter where in that ranking you are, otherwise the top 15 or so would pretty much all be tied for first.
I'm not sure why I ended up joining in on this argument, because rankings are pointless, especially now...the only thing that matters is if you can go on a 6 game winning streak after you've got your bid to the NCAA Tournament. "You have to beat the best to be the best." (no matter what round...so get in and anything can happen...ask UConn about their rank and the rank of George Mason a couple of years ago)
We are blessed that this is one of the pressing issues in our lives. (Sorry, Murf. I forgot you hate the use of the word 'pressing') Merry Christmas to one and all. Sean
Quote from: Murffieus on December 24, 2007, 06:14:50 PM
How do we get more votes yet fall-----it must be that overall more people voted which would mean that others got more votes as well!
Nope, wrong again. There were exactly the same amount of votes both weeks. There were 23400 votes cast last week and 23400 votes cast this week. The difference is that the votes were more evenly distributed this week.
The teams in the top 6 actually received 118 fewer votes this week than they did last week, most of it coming from the fact that teams 4-6 actually dropped 180 total votes. Conversely the teams in the middle picked up votes. Spots 10-20 actually have 135 more total votes spread out among them than the previous week. Further, fewer total teams received votes overall this week, there were fewer teams in the other's receiving votes category, 54 this week compared to 57 last week. And those teams took away fewer votes this week as well. Last week the others received 68 more votes than they did this week. Those additional votes are spread out among the teams in the top 25.
That means that while MU actually received 10 more votes this week than they did last week, there are more votes spread among other teams so MU drops.
maybe since we play in a power house conference we play more cupcakes... unlike Al who played better programs in non-conference since we were in a worse conference.
The Pollsters don't like it if you just barely beat the creampuffs, and we have in the past had our share of problems (even ont he beginning of this year) beating teams we should trounce.
So we should play our game - and use each game to increase of effectiveness overall - if that means leaving starters in to try new plays, offense sets, etc. then great. We have a deep bench, and TC plays into the bench each game. So I am fine with us trouncing the creampuffs - and I think it's generally good press.
I would also like to trounce some BE teams - LOL. Let's trounce all year - one game at a time.
Quote from: Murffieus on December 24, 2007, 11:09:30 AM
We currently rank #12 in BE SOS----so we're not playing as good a preconference schedule as the others.
Murf, where are you getting this data on BE SOS? It's not the same data that I have. My information, taken from the link below, shows that we are number five in Big East SOS.
http://kenpom.com/rate.php (http://kenpom.com/rate.php)
Team SOS
DePaul 13
Providence 16
Syracuse 17
Louisville 66
Marquette 75
South Florida 100
Pittsburgh 107
Cincinnati 138
Seton Hall 156
St. Johns 157
Villanova 171
Notre Dame 199
Georgetown 210
UConn 219
west Virginia 240
Rutgers 290
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 28, 2007, 07:40:10 PM
Quote from: Murffieus on December 24, 2007, 11:09:30 AM
We currently rank #12 in BE SOS----so we're not playing as good a preconference schedule as the others.
Murf, where are you getting this data on BE SOS? It's not the same data that I have. My information, taken from the link below, shows that we are number five in Big East SOS.
http://kenpom.com/rate.php (http://kenpom.com/rate.php)
Team SOS
DePaul 13
Providence 16
Syracuse 17
Louisville 66
Marquette 75
South Florida 100
Pittsburgh 107
Cincinnati 138
Seton Hall 156
St. Johns 157
Villanova 171
Notre Dame 199
Georgetown 210
UConn 219
west Virginia 240
Rutgers 290
Don't expect Murff to reply with a legitimate site that has been updated since the beginning of the year.