If Markus Howard is truly a 4.0 student taking APs etc then it is likely that he scored over 1200 on the SAT or 105 total on all 4 sections of the ACT. At that point he is actually eligible for an academic scholarship.
If MU is creative they can put together a full ride academic deal for Howard and let him be a walk on.
This would free up another scholarship for us.
Dude...
SMH
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 03:07:00 PM
If Markus Howard is truly a 4.0 student taking APs etc then it is likely that he scored over 1200 on the SAT or 105 total on all 4 sections of the ACT. At that point he is actually eligible for an academic scholarship.
If MU is creative they can put together a full ride academic deal for Howard and let him be a walk on.
This would free up another scholarship for us.
Is this possible? I thought the NCAA was very strict about getting around their 13 scholarship limit by "stashing" full-ride players in non-revenue sports or other forms of aid, like low cost loans or "academic scholarships."
My understanding is the only way this works is if the Howard family writes a check to the MU Bursar office for the full amount of tuition and room/board. Then he can truly be a walk-on free a full-ride spot for another.
Cringe
I *think* Heisy is correct - even if Howard is eligible and receives an academic scholarship, he would still count as one of 13 scholarship players as far as basketball is concerned. It's just that the funds would not be coming out of the Blue & Gold fund.
Otherwise football schools like Alabama would do this all the time.
People pullin' chit out der ass, hey?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 03:07:00 PM
If Markus Howard is truly a 4.0 student taking APs etc then it is likely that he scored over 1200 on the SAT or 105 total on all 4 sections of the ACT. At that point he is actually eligible for an academic scholarship.
If MU is creative they can put together a full ride academic deal for Howard and let him be a walk on.
This would free up another scholarship for us.
Smoke and mirrors...
(http://economistmom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/smoke-and-mirrors-cartoon.jpg)
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
I *think* Heisy is correct - even if Howard is eligible and receives an academic scholarship, he would still count as one of 13 scholarship players as far as basketball is concerned. It's just that the funds would not be coming out of the Blue & Gold fund.
Yes, and that would free the B&G fund to give that money to another sport.
Gotta fit Kostas in somehow.
Maybe his old man can get hired at a West coast Jesuit school and Howard can get the free tuition that way.
Better than adopting, a:ina?
Cuckoo. Cuckoo. Cuckoo.
Here is the rule I was referring to.
15.5.3.2.4 Exceptions.
15.5.3.2.4.1 Academic Honor Awards—Based on High School Record. Academic honor
awards that are part of an institution's normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely
on the recipient's high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts
consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by institutions, are exempt from an institution's
equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school
graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum
of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading
and math). (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, Revised: 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10)
15.5.3.2.4.1.1 Additional Requirements. The following additional requirements shall be
met: (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)
(a) The awards may include additional, nonacademic criteria (e.g., interviews, essays, need
analysis), provided the additional criteria are not based on athletics ability, participation or
interests, and the awards are consistent with the pattern of all such awards provided to all
students;
(b) No quota of awards shall be designated for student-athletes;
(c) Athletics participation shall not be required before or after collegiate enrollment;
(d) No athletics department staff member shall be involved in designating the recipients of such
awards; and
(e) Any additional criteria shall not include athletics ability, participation or interests.
There's always the possibility that Markus wins Powerball and decides to cover his costs.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 22, 2016, 04:29:19 PM
There's always the possibility that Markus wins Powerball and decides to cover his costs.
More likely than NY's suggestion, IMO
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 04:25:32 PM
Here is the rule I was referring to...
I'm not even remotely suggesting that Howard can or should receive such a scholarship. But backing up MU Fan in NY, I have first hand knowledge of an athlete in a headcount sport that was offered a full-tuition Presidential Academic Scholarship for freshman year, and then four years of athletic scholarship thereafter. In the Big East. It was explained that as long as the athlete fully qualifies for the academic scholarship, it is permissible. Incidentally, the athlete declined the offer and chose another school.
I don't think Marquette offers any scholarship that includes "full cost of attendance" like an athletic grant in aid would offer.
So this won't work because it wouldn't be "part of an institution's normal arrangements for academic scholarships."
What about one of those full-ride ROTC schollies?
Quote from: warriorchick on April 22, 2016, 04:53:17 PM
What about one of those full-ride ROTC schollies?
That would require a kid to "Man Up" so it's not for everyone
Quote from: warriorchick on April 22, 2016, 04:53:17 PM
What about one of those full-ride ROTC schollies?
That would be a good one. Officer Howard has a nice ring to it.
OJ Mayo could adopt at least one of our players and pay his tuition
Maybe his old man can get hired at a West coast Jesuit school and Howard can get the free tuition that way.
Better than adopting, a:ina?
I'd like to turn this question around ... This is up-and-up, not trying to pull anything shady.
MU (or any basketball team) holds a tryout for walk-ons. Some kid from the dorms, tries out, impresses and is given the spot. Say that kid was on an academic scholarship at the the of the try-out and the team already has 13 scholarship players.
Is he not allowed to be on the team? Does he have to give up his aid to be on the team? If he is allowed to be the team, how does this differ from the Howard example cited in the first post?
Quote from: keefe on April 22, 2016, 05:14:11 PM
That would require a kid to "Man Up" so it's not for everyone
Let's not try to make this a meme
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 22, 2016, 08:30:02 PM
I'd like to turn this question around ... This is up-and-up, not trying to pull anything shady.
MU (or any basketball team) holds a tryout for walk-ons. Some kid from the dorms, tries out, impresses and is given the spot. Say that kid was on an academic scholarship at the the of the try-out and the team already has 13 scholarship players.
Is he not allowed to be on the team? Does he have to give up his aid to be on the team? If he is allowed to be the team, how does this differ from the Howard example cited in the first post?
Maybe you should read the other posts in this topic.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 22, 2016, 08:40:37 PM
Maybe you should read the other posts in this topic. ?
Heisey FIFY for ya
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 22, 2016, 08:40:37 PM
Maybe you should read the other posts in this topic.
don"t see my answer, please enlighten me.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 22, 2016, 09:06:44 PM
don"t see my answer, please enlighten me.
It is covered in Section 15.5.3.2.4 of the NCAA Code as was outlined earlier in this thread.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 09:38:59 PM
It is covered in Section 15.5.3.2.4 of the NCAA Code as was outlined earlier in this thread.
That is the only part of the code that applies? No other parts?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 22, 2016, 09:43:01 PM
That is the only part of the code that applies? No other parts?
The answer to your question is a kid can always walk on to a basketball team. He cannot have a scholarship in another sport but he can have an academic scholarship provided the exceptions in this section are applicable.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 10:25:13 PM
The answer to your question is a kid can always walk on to a basketball team. He cannot have a scholarship in another sport but he can have an academic scholarship provided the exceptions in this section are applicable.
So why couldn't Howard apply for an academic scholarship freeing up a 14th spot on the team?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 03:07:00 PM
If Markus Howard is truly a 4.0 student taking APs etc then it is likely that he scored over 1200 on the SAT or 105 total on all 4 sections of the ACT. At that point he is actually eligible for an academic scholarship.
If MU is creative they can put together a full ride academic deal for Howard and let him be a walk on.
This would free up another scholarship for us.
if this were an option, wouldn't north carolina have produced many a scholarly student athlete-'ey? the only difference would be is that the student athlete would come in with "so-so" grades, but leave with 4.0's in whatever they wanted. hey, ya wanna be a rocket surgeon? well come on down-here are the grades to your classes, after nicole get's done with her "orientation" down there, run along down to the gym like we agreed upon ;D
"awarded independently of athletics interests" seems to be a key provision here, however if that simply means to academic scholarships in general and not just one given incident then perhaps this would be fully applicable. Which is the point of the thread; whether it will be utilized in this case...only the Scoop knows.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 23, 2016, 05:48:39 AM
So why couldn't Howard apply for an academic scholarship freeing up a 14th spot on the team?
Read. The. Topic.
No scholarship offered by Marquette is as valuable as an athletic grant in aid. Why would he do that?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 23, 2016, 07:38:06 AM
Read. The. Topic.
No scholarship offered by Marquette is as valuable as an athletic grant in aid. Why would he do that?
Create one and award it to him.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 23, 2016, 09:26:11 AM
That'll work.
Do other schools do this? How many full ride academic scholarship players do UNC, Louisville, etc have, or have had?
Two years ago Louisville had 5 walk-one, at least one was getting serious minutes. Where they using this angle to get around 13 scholarship athletes?
It seems that the rodents do it.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on April 23, 2016, 09:36:48 AM
It seems that the rodents do it.
Yeah. I'm sure they are getting away with something. ::)
Most of their walk-ons are in-state. Even if they get something tossed their way it is likely an academic scholarship within their offerings to all students. Leaving a relatively small bill to pay at the end.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 23, 2016, 09:38:51 AM
Yeah. I'm sure they are getting away with something. ::)
Most of their walk-ons are in-state. Even if they get something tossed their way it is likely an academic scholarship within their offerings to all students. Leaving a relatively small bill to pay at the end.
Do we even know for certain that we don't already do this? Might guys like Frozena and Marotta have earned some aid based on grades?
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 23, 2016, 09:44:13 AM
Do we even know for certain that we don't already do this? Might guys like Frozena and Marotta have earned some aid based on grades?
Yes. Just not full rides like a grant in aid.
Really lamenting over how many walk ons the Badgers have and that they might be getting away with something is too silly for words. I don't care if they have 50 walk ons.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 04:25:32 PM
Here is the rule I was referring to.
15.5.3.2.4 Exceptions.
15.5.3.2.4.1 Academic Honor Awards—Based on High School Record. Academic honor
awards that are part of an institution's normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely
on the recipient's high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts
consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by institutions, are exempt from an institution's
equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school
graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum
of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading
and math). (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, Revised: 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10)
15.5.3.2.4.1.1 Additional Requirements. The following additional requirements shall be
met: (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, 1/18/14 effective 8/1/14)
(a) The awards may include additional, nonacademic criteria (e.g., interviews, essays, need
analysis), provided the additional criteria are not based on athletics ability, participation or
interests, and the awards are consistent with the pattern of all such awards provided to all
students;
(b) No quota of awards shall be designated for student-athletes;
(c) Athletics participation shall not be required before or after collegiate enrollment;
(d) No athletics department staff member shall be involved in designating the recipients of such
awards; and
(e) Any additional criteria shall not include athletics ability, participation or interests.
There is only 15.5 and 15.5.1. That's it. 15.5.3.2.4 doesn't exist. Please go to the source and don't copy and paste old crap.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 22, 2016, 09:38:59 PM
It is covered in Section 15.5.3.2.4 of the NCAA Code as was outlined earlier in this thread.
No. 15.5.3.2.4. doesn't exist.
You believed something on the internet as to be current. Big mistake. Not going to the source will burn you and result in the passing on of misinformation to others.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 23, 2016, 09:46:18 AM
Yes. Just not full rides like a grant in aid.
Really lamenting over how many walk ons the Badgers have and that they might be getting away with something is too silly for words. I don't care if they have 50 walk ons.
Well...if they are 50 walk ons that contribute like Gasser and Showalter, I'm not a fan of that.
50 walk ons with my basketball skill set? Hell, they can have 100.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 23, 2016, 09:56:23 AM
Well...if they are 50 walk ons that contribute like Gasser and Showalter, I'm not a fan of that.
50 walk ons with my basketball skill set? Hell, they can have 100.
It's different being the state school, especially for an in-state student. He was on scholarship, but you have a guy like Gavinski who was a total bust that stayed I think 4 years. He just loved the idea of being on the UW basketball team and probably put up with a ton of extra crap because everyone wanted him to transfer.
If I remember correctly, the plan was for Gasser to only walk on one year, but then the Diamond Taylor scholarship freed up. There's an allegiance to UW that would make walkons that could get a scholarship at a smaller school walkon instead. I think that's probably true of most state schools, especially those with the success that UW has had recently.