This is maybe what the lineup will look like starting out:
C - Fischer with Heldt backing
SF - JJJ with Hauser backing
SF - Reinhardt with Anim and Cohen
SG - Cheatham with Rowsey and Wilson
PG - Howard with Carter backing
Some will disagree with the PG position, but I believe Howard didn't commit to MU to be Carter's backup for three years. You never know what the coach tells the players, but just my gut feeling here.
Left Wally off in light of his track status, but he would be fine with a few minutes somewhere in there as a backup.
Some of past year's players will have their playing time decreased in light of Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey and Hauser addition, but will make practice time much, much, more competitive. Should be interesting how this pans out.
I still think we need one more big in there, but it'll be interesting to see how minutes play out. Assume Fischer and Heldt split time at the 5. Could Hauser, JJ, and Sandy provide enough rebounding at the 4 to manage? Figure 160 minutes for Rowsey, Carter, Howard, Duane, Cheatham, JJ, Sandy, Reinhardt, Anim, Hauser, and the thirteenth man? Can Wojo play Cal Kentucky style and keep them all happy?
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 10, 2016, 05:38:05 AM
I still think we need one more big in there, but it'll be interesting to see how minutes play out. Assume Fischer and Heldt split time at the 5. Could Hauser, JJ, and Sandy provide enough rebounding at the 4 to manage? Figure 160 minutes for Rowsey, Carter, Howard, Duane, Cheatham, JJ, Sandy, Reinhardt, Anim, Hauser, and the thirteenth man? Can Wojo play Cal Kentucky style and keep them all happy?
No he won't keep them all happy. Wojo has a huge logjam at guard/swing, and has created a yuuge wojo cut.
Quote from: nyg on April 10, 2016, 05:28:56 AM
This is maybe what the lineup will look like starting out:
C - Fischer with Heldt backing
SF - JJJ with Hauser backing
SF - Reinhardt with Anim and Cohen
SG - Cheatham with Rowsey and Wilson
PG - Howard with Carter backing
Some will disagree with the PG position, but I believe Howard didn't commit to MU to be Carter's backup for three years. You never know what the coach tells the players, but just my gut feeling here.
Left Wally off in light of his track status, but he would be fine with a few minutes somewhere in there as a backup.
Some of past year's players will have their playing time decreased in light of Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey and Hauser addition, but will make practice time much, much, more competitive. Should be interesting how this pans out.
You want to know what coaches tell almost all recruits about what you mentioned in the PG paragraph - that nkthing is set in stone and if you come in and prove you are the better option you will play - you might not think Howard will be second to carter for three years - but he almost certainly will be next year - the kid is gonna be 17 for crying out loud -
Two thoughts. I do see TC getting the nod over Howard, at least initially. Second, Wilson is going to have to dramatically improve if he wants to play.
While I'm certainly excited about Howard's addition, expectations of him need to be tempered. This is a kid coming in having played only three years of high school. He's making an enormous jump. Carter has a lot of minutes under his belt now. Reinhardt and Rowsey could both play minutes at PG. While Howard is probably too good not to get his opportunities next year, I think Wojo is going to pick his spots with him.
I think same thing for Hauser. Love his game, potential, etc. He and Howard are both likely to be very good- great Warriors when it's all said and done, but Hauser to has a huge adjustment to make, especially the guys he's going to have to guard now and with all the experience and talent already here.
Duane Wilson is the guy of everyone who I think better improve his game a lot, or else he's going to get passed over for minutes. He's not very big, he's not a PG, his decision making is often poor, and he's a streaky shooter.
I'll take a stab at it, however, I think there's to much competition and talent to expect Wojo to roll with the same 5 all season. I think he'll change it up as needed throughout the season.
My guess, without getting involved in all the minutes and roles and everything guys will likely play -
PG - Carter
G - Rowsey
G - Reinhardt
F - Cheatham
C - Fischer
6th man - JJJ
Like many are saying in other threads, competition for minutes will be intense.
I think JJJ is our best returning player - I predict he will lead the team in minutes
Quote from: vacinator on April 10, 2016, 09:25:27 AM
I think JJJ is our best returning player - I predict he will lead the team in minutes
Best player or best talent - not the same - it's clear he is unbelievably talented but the best player is the one maxing it out the most consistently - I'm not saying it won't be him but i see fisher being our best player
Quote from: CAGASS24 on April 10, 2016, 09:40:14 AM
Best player or best talent - not the same - it's clear he is unbelievably talented but the best player is the one maxing it out the most consistently - I'm not saying it won't be him but i see fisher being our best player
I think JJJ was remarkably consistent the last 10 or so games of the season. If he plays like he did for that stretch, he's gonna be a first team Big East player. Fischer can't stay on the court long enough to be our best player. Too many stupid fouls.
My stab at a way too early minutes distribution:
Fischer: 30 minutes
Reinhardt: 24 minutes
JJJ: 23 minutes
Cheatham: 22 minutes
Rowsey: 17 minutes
Wilson: 17 minutes
Carter: 16 minutes
Howard: 16 minutes
Cohen: 10 minutes
Heldt: 10 minutes
Ellenson: 5 minutes
Anim: 5 minutes
Hauser: 5 minutes
In conclusion....this is difficult. But love having 13 players is great.
PG - Rowsey, SG - Reinhardt, SG - Hauser, PF - Ellenson, C - Heldt. Gonna traditional the f*ck out of the big east.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 10:10:13 AM
My stab at a way too early minutes distribution:
Fischer: 30 minutes
Reinhardt: 24 minutes
JJJ: 23 minutes
Cheatham: 22 minutes
Rowsey: 17 minutes
Wilson: 17 minutes
Carter: 16 minutes
Howard: 16 minutes
Cohen: 10 minutes
Heldt: 10 minutes
Ellenson: 5 minutes
Anim: 5 minutes
Hauser: 5 minutes
In conclusion....this is difficult. But love having 13 players is great.
I see fish cheetham and Duane getting leaned on a ton and most others mjnutes will be defined by the roles they assume
Quote from: esotericmindguy on April 10, 2016, 10:22:36 AM
PG - Rowsey, SG - Reinhardt, SG - Hauser, PF - Ellenson, C - Heldt. Gonna traditional the f*ck out of the big east.
You win
You are right though - this roster is looking so much stronger top to bottom than the last three years - if Wally does indeed leave and we pick up a solid frosh to balance out the development processes this is setting up like a good couple years for the program
I know we lost our best player - but considering we are replacing him with rowsey, Howard, hauser and Reinhardt - hard to think we can't be better next year
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 10:10:13 AM
My stab at a way too early minutes distribution:
Fischer: 30 minutes
Reinhardt: 24 minutes
JJJ: 23 minutes
Cheatham: 22 minutes
Rowsey: 17 minutes
Wilson: 17 minutes
Carter: 16 minutes
Howard: 16 minutes
Cohen: 10 minutes
Heldt: 10 minutes
Ellenson: 5 minutes
Anim: 5 minutes
Hauser: 5 minutes
In conclusion....this is difficult. But love having 13 players is great.
1. Given his penchant for silly fouls, 30 minutes for Luke is too high.
2, Cheatham is "Wojo's boy"- he'll get 25+.
3. We won't have 10 players average 10+ minutes, especially in conference play. Either more transfers are coming or we'll have some disgruntled players.
Thus far the roster has lost 33.5 mpg from HE - there are going to be many players competing for those minutes. I don't see Cheatham, JJJ or Fisher playing less. That leaves Cohen (23 mpg), Wilson (29 mpg), Wally (8 mpg) and Carter (24 mpg) losing time.
Players that will likely gain roster minutes - Reinhardt, Rowsey, Howard, Heldt and Hauser.
We are not a small team with this lineup
C Fischer
F Hauser
F Reinhart
G JJJ
G Cheatnam
I do not know if that will happen, but with two small forwards I am not sure the team can start guards under 6'. Sure Rowsey and Howard are suppose to be good three point shooters, but so are Hauser, Reinhardt, JJJ and Cheathan, so the value of the small guards shooting is less important than it would of been in other years. I certainly do not think you will see Rowsey and Howard on the floor at the same time. Big guards would just abuse them unless one of them is an athletic freak like James was. Of course the best offensive team is the one that limits its turnovers, so we may need to start a guard under 6'5". I suppose you could point to Buzz's second team and say a small team can work, but that team had on it two future 30 picks in the NBA draft.
Quote from: vacinator on April 10, 2016, 10:43:29 AM
Thus far the roster has lost 33.5 mpg from HE - there are going to be many players competing for those minutes. I don't see Cheatham, JJJ or Fisher playing less. That leaves Cohen (23 mpg), Wilson (29 mpg), Wally (8 mpg) and Carter (24 mpg) losing time.
Players that will likely gain roster minutes - Reinhardt, Rowsey, Howard, Heldt and Hauser.
Gaining roster minutes over whom? Are we now writing off carter, Cohen and Wilson?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 10, 2016, 10:40:24 AM
1. Given his penchant for silly fouls, 30 minutes for Luke is too high.
2, Cheatham is "Wojo's boy"- he'll get 25+.
3. We won't have 10 players average 10+ minutes, especially in conference play. Either more transfers are coming or we'll have some disgruntled players.
1. Luke has averaged 29 mpg the last two seasons. Increasing that by 1 mpg is not that much a stretch. I do think Luke improves this offseason and learns to cut down on the fouls. But I agree its a concern.
2. I don't think anyone is "Wojo's boy." Playing time is not given, it is earned. If HC earns 25+ great, but with as many guards as we have, I think the wise move is to spread out minutes a little more widely.
3. Why not? We don't have any truly great players on the team next year. But when your worst player on a 13 man roster is either a Sam Hauser, Sacar Anim, or Wally Ellenson, that is a ton of depth. Why not use it to your advantage? With as small as we are going to be, I'd expect a very high pressure defense and a fast tempo offense. This will require a lot of substitutions and lot of fouls to give. Remember the elite 8 season with Buzz? He 9 players averaging over 10 mpg and 2 averaging 9 mpg. IIRC correctly, we we are one top teams in the nation in substitutions per game. I could see a similar approach next season. All speculation on my part of course.
Starters:
C-Luke (Heldt back up)
PG - Carter (Rowsey back up)
F/G - Reinhardt, Cheatham, JJJ (Howard, Rowsey, Hauser)
Sandy, Anim and new freshman with spot minutes. Not sure Duane and Wally are around.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 10, 2016, 12:58:23 PM
Starters:
C-Luke (Heldt back up)
PG - Carter (Rowsey back up)
F/G - Reinhardt, Cheatham, JJJ (Howard, Rowsey, Hauser)
Sandy, Anim and new freshman with spot minutes. Not sure Duane and Wally are around.
Suspect Markus Howard will be getting some meaningful minutes. Duane's not going anywhere.
I think Howard will be getting meaningful minutes. I think he will be part of a largely six or seven man rotation playing four guard/forward spots.
I think positions are useless next year so it's easier to break it down by minutes.
Luke-35
Heldt-5 (really depends on fouls for Luke)
Haanif-35
JJJ-30
Traci-25
Reinhardt-20
Duane-20
Howard-15
Rousey-15
Sandy-5
Spot minutes for Anim and Hauser. Mind you these are purely guesses. A lot of things can change after the start of the season. Also, didn't really check my math. Hope it adds up to 200.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 10, 2016, 02:04:07 PM
Luke-35
Luke has averaged 3.2 fouls per game since coming to Marquette in 29 minutes per game. He's going to really need to cut down on the fouls to play an extra 6 minutes this year (Henry played 33 mpg for example)
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 10, 2016, 02:04:07 PM
I think positions are useless next year so it's easier to break it down by minutes.
Luke-35
Heldt-5 (really depends on fouls for Luke)
Haanif-35
JJJ-30
Traci-25
Reinhardt-20
Duane-20
Howard-15
Rousey-15
Sandy-5
Spot minutes for Anim and Hauser. Mind you these are purely guesses. A lot of things can change after the start of the season. Also, didn't really check my math. Hope it adds up to 200.
Entirely possible, but I have a hard time seeing Reinhardt going from the second best player on an NCAA team to the fifth best player on a team that missed the nit. I think we are underestimating how good Reinhardt is
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 10:10:13 AM
My stab at a way too early minutes distribution:
Fischer: 30 minutes
Reinhardt: 24 minutes
JJJ: 23 minutes
Cheatham: 22 minutes
Rowsey: 17 minutes
Wilson: 17 minutes
Carter: 16 minutes
Howard: 16 minutes
Cohen: 10 minutes
Heldt: 10 minutes
Ellenson: 5 minutes
Anim: 5 minutes
Hauser: 5 minutes
In conclusion....this is difficult. But love having 13 players is great.
Take Wally's and Anim's minutes away and give them to Duane and Cheatham so they are both at around 24 and I agree with your breakdown.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 02:32:08 PM
Entirely possible, but I have a hard time seeing Reinhardt going from the second best player on an NCAA team to the fifth best player on a team that missed the nit. I think we are underestimating how good Reinhardt is
Was Reinhardt the 2nd best player for USC? He averaged the 5th most points per game (11.4) & took the 2nd most shots. Started 18 of 34 games. His PER was 6th best amongst rotation players & Win Shares was also 6th best.
What measurements are you going by that I'm missing?
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 10, 2016, 02:04:07 PM
I think positions are useless next year so it's easier to break it down by minutes.
Luke-35
Heldt-5 (really depends on fouls for Luke)
Haanif-35
JJJ-30
Traci-25
Reinhardt-20
Duane-20
Howard-15
Rousey-15
Sandy-5
Spot minutes for Anim and Hauser. Mind you these are purely guesses. A lot of things can change after the start of the season. Also, didn't really check my math. Hope it adds up to 200.
I think Rousey will get more than 15 mpg.
Would be great if we could redshirt someone to free up more minutes but there aren't any obvious candidates.
Quote from: willie warrior on April 10, 2016, 11:27:29 AM
Gaining roster minutes over whom? Are we now writing off carter, Cohen and Wilson?
I am not writing off anyone. That said the newcomers combined and Heldt's increase will likely total more than HE's 33.5 mpg. It has to come from somebody
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on April 10, 2016, 03:05:13 PM
Was Reinhardt the 2nd best player for USC? He averaged the 5th most points per game (11.4) & took the 2nd most shots. Started 18 of 34 games. His PER was 6th best amongst rotation players & Win Shares was also 6th best.
What measurements are you going by that I'm missing?
He was the team's best defender. Also the difference between top scorer (McLauglin) and 5th scorer (Reinhardt) on USC was 2.0 ppg. They had a very well balanced scoring attack.
Quote from: vacinator on April 10, 2016, 04:20:47 PM
I am not writing off anyone. That said the newcomers combined and Heldt's increase will likely total more than HE's 33.5 mpg. It has to come from somebody.
Xavier's roster might provide some clues.
Of their main rotation, only 1 topped 30 minutes a game: Bluiett at 30.6 mpg. Two others averaged more than 25 minutes: Davis (29.1) and Sumner (25.9). The next four (Abell, Macura, Farr and Reynolds) averaged between 19.6 and 24.4 mpg.
Gates, Austin and O'Mara saw more limited minutes. Each appeared in at least 30 games, averaging between 7.0 and 10.4 mpg.
I would be thrilled if Wojo felt comfortable playing 9 or even 10 deep — especially if we're going to play an up-tempo game. Fewer minutes might actually help Haanif and Duane, so they have more in the tank when they really need to turn it on.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 10, 2016, 02:04:07 PM
I think positions are useless next year so it's easier to break it down by minutes.
Luke-35
Heldt-5 (really depends on fouls for Luke)
Haanif-35
JJJ-30
Traci-25
Reinhardt-20
Duane-20
Howard-15
Rousey-15
Sandy-5
Spot minutes for Anim and Hauser. Mind you these are purely guesses. A lot of things can change after the start of the season. Also, didn't really check my math. Hope it adds up to 200.
If Heldt has not progressed enough not to average more than 5 minutes a game, than we will really be hurting next year. I do think Fischer and Heldt will see some time on the the floor together. That will depend on the makeup of our opponent's team.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 04:46:57 PM
He was the team's best defender. Also the difference between top scorer (McLauglin) and 5th scorer (Reinhardt) on USC was 2.0 ppg. They had a very well balanced scoring attack.
Gotcha, so just your opinion. Wasn't sure if you had any advanced statistics I was missing
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on April 10, 2016, 05:02:34 PM
Gotcha, so just your opinion. Wasn't sure if you had any advanced statistics I was missing
And the opinion of people who follow USC.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 05:18:41 PM
People on their message boards.
Gotcha. I'm excited for his impact next year. Anyone who is a senior, former top 50 kid, and willing to guard the opposing teams top player is cool with me
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on April 10, 2016, 05:19:52 PM
Gotcha. I'm excited for his impact next year. Anyone who is a senior, former top 50 kid, and willing to guard the opposing teams top player is cool with me
If he is as good of a wing defender if people say he is than Sandy may really see his minutes cut next year.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 10:10:13 AM
My stab at a way too early minutes distribution:
Fischer: 30 minutes
Reinhardt: 24 minutes
JJJ: 23 minutes
Cheatham: 22 minutes
Rowsey: 17 minutes
Wilson: 17 minutes
Carter: 16 minutes
Howard: 16 minutes
Cohen: 10 minutes
Heldt: 10 minutes
Ellenson: 5 minutes
Anim: 5 minutes
Hauser: 5 minutes
In conclusion....this is difficult. But love having 13 players is great.
No chance in hell Cheatham averages less than 25 MPG. These are way off IMO.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 10, 2016, 01:32:36 PM
Suspect Markus Howard will be getting some meaningful minutes. Duane's not going anywhere.
This. If Duane leaves, it's after next season as a grad transfer. He is not burning a full year of eligibility.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 10, 2016, 08:42:44 AM
While I'm certainly excited about Howard's addition, expectations of him need to be tempered. This is a kid coming in having played only three years of high school. He's making an enormous jump. Carter has a lot of minutes under his belt now. Reinhardt and Rowsey could both play minutes at PG. While Howard is probably too good not to get his opportunities next year, I think Wojo is going to pick his spots with him.
I think same thing for Hauser. Love his game, potential, etc. He and Howard are both likely to be very good- great Warriors when it's all said and done, but Hauser to has a huge adjustment to make, especially the guys he's going to have to guard now and with all the experience and talent already here.
I agree with this analysis.
JJJ made a massive leap mid-season. I'd compare it to the leap Blue made between his Soph and Jr seasons. Wilson seems primed for this kind of development next year, although if anyone were to transfer I think it'd be him.
Howard is a huge land. But he'll be turning 18 during the season, right? I would not expect him to start, or even contribute more than 10 minutes. In fact, I also wouldn't be surprised if he were a candidate to redshirt (i.e., isn't it better to develop physically and practice against D1 athletes than to play a 4th season of HS ball? That's part of the logic in Henry going pro to ride the bench rather than playing against lesser competition).
Rowsey is likely a 30 minute a game guy. JJJ can play a small 4 position. Sometime we forget that most colleges don't have a true 1-2-3-4-5 lineup. Many have 1-1-2-3-4, 1-2-2-3-4, etc. We should be faster than most of our opponents.
At PG I think it breaks down in conference play as: TC - 20, Rowsey - 15, Howard - 5
At C I think it breaks down in conference play as: 30 - Fischer, 10 - Hedlt
The other 3 positions are a jumble of 120 minutes: Haanif - 30, Duane - 20, JjJ - 20, Rowsey - 5, Sandy - 10, Hauser - 10, Reinhart - 25
¿¿¿¿Rowsey -5????
Edit: thanks sultan didn't see that.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 10, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
At PG I think it breaks down in conference play as: TC - 20, Rowsey - 15, Howard - 5
At C I think it breaks down in conference play as: 30 - Fischer, 10 - Hedlt
The other 3 positions are a jumble of 120 minutes: Haanif - 30, Duane - 20, JjJ - 20, Rowsey - 5, Sandy - 10, Hauser - 10, Reinhart - 25
No
Quote from: mu03eng on April 10, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
At PG I think it breaks down in conference play as: TC - 20, Rowsey - 15, Howard - 5
At C I think it breaks down in conference play as: 30 - Fischer, 10 - Hedlt
The other 3 positions are a jumble of 120 minutes: Haanif - 30, Duane - 20, JjJ - 20, Rowsey - 5, Sandy - 10, Hauser - 10, Reinhart - 25
There is no way Howard is only playing 5 minutes a game.
Quote from: forgetful on April 10, 2016, 08:38:55 PM
There is no way Howard is only playing 5 minutes a game.
Next year will be a highly competitive situation for the guards.
The thing I like however is that we start to ease our way through the experience gap next year. We will have two sr guards and one SF (today) that will forfeit mins at the end of the year - plus Luke graduating.
So if the underclassman are superior -- they will start. If they lose out to experience -- they likely develop and earn those mins one year out.
Finally a situation where folks may fight to get on the floor versus looking to fill the mins.
The only way the minutes work is if Sandy and Wally leave. Otherwise we are looking at another Deonte Burton scenario.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 10, 2016, 06:38:59 PM
No chance in hell Cheatham averages less than 25 MPG. These are way off IMO.
I'm sure it is, that's why its a way too early prediction. But I think getting bogged down in the "this player will have to get at least this many minutes" is the wrong way to think about it. Players playing less minutes isn't necessarily a bad thing. The longer a player goes, the less efficient he tends to get. Having a long bench allows Wojo to run a very fast paced, physical, attacking defense and high octane offense. That requires a lot of substitutions and a lot of fouls.
We don't have a set of truly great players at the top of our rotation. But we have 13 scholarship players, all of whom could play if called upon. Our strength is depth. Best strategy would seem to be using players for shorter more high energy efficient stretches IMHO.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 08:58:45 PM
I'm sure it is, that's why its a way too early prediction. But I think getting bogged down in the "this player will have to get at least this many minutes" is the wrong way to think about it. Players playing less minutes isn't necessarily a bad thing. The longer a player goes, the less efficient he tends to get. Having a long bench allows Wojo to run a very fast paced, physical, attacking defense and high octane offense. That requires a lot of substitutions and a lot of fouls.
We don't have a set of truly great players at the top of our rotation. But we have 13 scholarship players, all of whom could play if called upon. Our strength is depth. Best strategy would seem to be using players for shorter more high energy efficient stretches IMHO.
Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man.
I also think we're doing an 8-9 man rotation. This isn't a democracy. While I believe Luke, JjJ, Hani and Reinhardt are 'locks', everyone else has to earn their way IN in the Kasten gym. Time will tell.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 10, 2016, 09:18:57 PM
Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man.
To many games last year when the guards particularly Duane could not hit the side of the barn. Duane misses his first couple, he might not get off the bench then. MU
should be more like Villy on the three point shot, Hauser, Reinhardt, Rowsey, Howard and Cheatham all can shoot the three. Last year, when Duane was awful MU
was awful, as Henry was bad, Carter, below average except one game, and Cohen in the Big East, forget about it, plain awful. Those 5 might be the best shooters on one team at MU in years. With those recruits, MU will play an open offense like Duke plays so Carter might be the key. Drive and Dish.
Quote from: jsglow on April 10, 2016, 10:14:45 PM
I also think we're doing an 8-9 man rotation. This isn't a democracy. While I believe Luke, JjJ, Hani and Reinhardt are 'locks', everyone else has to earn their way IN in the Kasten gym. Time will tell.
I agree with this.
Coaches don't use 13-man rotations. By conference time, Wojo will settle into 7-9 guys. And come nut-cutting time in games, he'll have 5-7 guys he'll feel he can trust.
I do agree with others who say that, in the long run, the depth should help the likes of JJJ, Haanif and Duane, who often were gassed in games when we needed them most.
As for Duane, I'm not sure what to think. I understand the views of those who say he has the most to lose with all these newbies, and it was frustrating to watch him at times last season. Still, he was the guy who stepped up in the clutch in several games. He has "onions," as Raftery says. And he will be a third-year player who will be in his fourth year around the team. It's hard to replace that kind of experience -- not just in age and years but in a guy who has been willing to take big shots and sometimes able to make them.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 10, 2016, 09:18:57 PM
Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man.
No its not...they need to go 9 or 10 deep at least...He should sub out 3 or 4 guys at a time and rotate them.
Use wholesale substitutions....defenders and then shooters and 3/4 court press defenders.
A 10 man rotation like Villanova has. Find the guys who mesh...and play them with each other. Much of the missed shots late in games we due to tired legs.
The depth will keep them fresh. And I agree. Carter is the key to the 'engine.'
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 10, 2016, 08:58:45 PM
I'm sure it is, that's why its a way too early prediction. But I think getting bogged down in the "this player will have to get at least this many minutes" is the wrong way to think about it. Players playing less minutes isn't necessarily a bad thing. The longer a player goes, the less efficient he tends to get. Having a long bench allows Wojo to run a very fast paced, physical, attacking defense and high octane offense. That requires a lot of substitutions and a lot of fouls.
We don't have a set of truly great players at the top of our rotation. But we have 13 scholarship players, all of whom could play if called upon. Our strength is depth. Best strategy would seem to be using players for shorter more high energy efficient stretches IMHO.
EXCELLENT POST. I CONCUR....100%
Quote from: mu03eng on April 10, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
At PG I think it breaks down in conference play as: TC - 20, Rowsey - 15, Howard - 5
At C I think it breaks down in conference play as: 30 - Fischer, 10 - Hedlt
The other 3 positions are a jumble of 120 minutes: Haanif - 30, Duane - 20, JjJ - 20, Rowsey - 5, Sandy - 10, Hauser - 10, Reinhart - 25
Where is Sacar Anim in here? Is he gone? I like the kid's game and he is a proven winner.
Curious...
Given that the majority of the team will be "switchables", I see the minutes from a little different perspective.
Major Minutes - 22-30
Luke
JJJ
Hanif
Reinhardt
Contributors - 15-22 mins
TC
Duane
Heldt (at the bottom of this range but will get more when Luke has foul trouble)
Rowsey
Role Players - 3-5 mins depending on opponent and situation and how many fouls the bigs get
Hauser
Howard
Sacar
Wally
Sandy
In conference games and other difficult games the team will be 8 deep (barring injury) and the last 5 will struggle to get PT at all.
Realistically, Howard should red-shirt. Not many 17 year olds are ready for the big east.
I also think the starting 5 will be different...
Luke
Cheatham
TC
Reinhardt
Duane/Rowsey based on whoever's hot because both of these guys can be streaky.
6th man / instant offense: JJJ
As long as he's here, I'm not ready to write Sandy off. On this team, right now, he is the only guy who has played significant minutes that has any prayer of contributing at the 4. Wally is a great energy guy, but Sandy is our best returning rebounder. If he can put another 15-20 pounds on, he'll at least stand a chance of defending guys down low and he's already a decent man defender. I know he's not a perfect player, but I see a lot of people wanting us to find our Trevon Blueitt/Kris Jenkins type of player, and like it or not, Sandy Cohen is the closest thing on our roster to that type of player.
Last year, people were ready to write him off and he increased his minutes, offensive efficiency, eFG%, 3PFG%, rebounding, and became a much, much better defender. He may not be the frontline star guys want, but I still think he has a place as a junior and senior to play a role like Juan should have played as a senior, contributing rebounding, defense, and some threes off the bench and as a spot starter.
Frankly, looking at this team right now, any starting lineup that doesn't include Sandy is downright terrifying from a rebounding perspective. If we're counting on JJ, Haney, and Reinhardt to go down low and fight for boards, that's a bit unnerving. Barring another grad transfer or immediately eligible player, Sandy has a hugely critical role on next year's team.
Quote from: WarriorFan on April 11, 2016, 06:35:03 AM
Given that the majority of the team will be "switchables", I see the minutes from a little different perspective.
Major Minutes - 22-30
Luke
JJJ
Hanif
Reinhardt
Contributors - 15-22 mins
TC
Duane
Heldt (at the bottom of this range but will get more when Luke has foul trouble)
Rowsey
Role Players - 3-5 mins depending on opponent and situation and how many fouls the bigs get
Hauser
Howard
Sacar
Wally
Sandy
In conference games and other difficult games the team will be 8 deep (barring injury) and the last 5 will struggle to get PT at all.
Realistically, Howard should red-shirt. Not many 17 year olds are ready for the big east.
I also think the starting 5 will be different...
Luke
Cheatham
TC
Reinhardt
Duane/Rowsey based on whoever's hot because both of these guys can be streaky.
6th man / instant offense: JJJ
Howard didn't reclassify to get 5 minutes or redshirt.
It just isn't happening
Quote from: forgetful on April 10, 2016, 08:38:55 PM
There is no way Howard is only playing 5 minutes a game.
Don't under estimate how unprepared freshmen point guards are. Traci Carter only got minutes because we didn't have better options. There are at least 2 better options in front of Howard next year (which he knew about when choosing to come here) so unless he really impresses, I think his minutes will be limited in conference play.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 10, 2016, 09:18:57 PM
Players need to be in the flow of the game. this is basketball not Hockey. Taking them in and out works against that. Having 13 scholarship players is a good thing. I think an 8 man rotation is much better for this team than a 10 man.
I remember Ners making this argument back in the day.....ARE YOU NERS?!??!? Did you play high school basketball and dunk on someone once??? ANSWER ME!!!!
Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.
I agree, but Howard is too good not to get some minutes. I don't think he's a starter from day 1, but I do think he is immediately in the rotation and may earn starter's minutes depending on his performance. He could also lose minutes depending on performance. But if I were a betting man I'd say it was more likely that he becomes a starter than he falls out of the rotation
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on April 11, 2016, 08:27:44 AM
I agree, but Howard is too good not to get some minutes. I don't think he's a starter from day 1, but I do think he is immediately in the rotation and may earn starter's minutes depending on his performance. He could also lose minutes depending on performance. But if I were a betting man I'd say it was more likely that he becomes a starter than he falls out of the rotation
Certainly very possible, and I reserve the right to adjust my projections once I see these guys practice and at madness. I also think, depending on the game, the non-con will be the wild west of minutes as Wojo tries to figure out what he has. However, it's happened time and time again that we get all worked up about the new guy and the new guy doesn't live up to "expectations" until year 2 or 3.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.
After last year I will never under value experience again.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 11, 2016, 08:59:35 AM
After last year I will never under value experience again.
I agree, Reinhardt, Fisher, JJJ, Rowsey, and Duane are all 21 or 22 of age next year, look at them as your go to players to start the year. Experinece matters and those
guys will get first shot. Carter and Howard will battle at the point, Hauser and hopefully Kalif Young will battle at the 4, the rest will be resolved by the chemistry of
the older players.
Bottom line is that you can not turn the ball over 17-18 times a game and win. That alone will make them a better team! Less turnovers, more shots.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
Not sure why it is, but there is always a tendency to undervalue experience and to always assume the new player coming in will be better than the player currently on the roster. Given the balance of talent and experience on the roster, I'm inclined to believe that the players with D1 experience, especially at MU are going to get more minutes than new players.
Elementary. We know the weaknesses of the returning players. The new guys haven't missed a shot or turned it over yet. Midway through the season we'll be salivating over the 2017 recruits.
Quote from: HoopsterBC on April 11, 2016, 09:05:21 AM
I agree, Reinhardt, Fisher, JJJ, Rowsey, and Duane are all 21 or 22 of age next year, look at them as your go to players to start the year. Experinece matters and those
guys will get first shot. Carter and Howard will battle at the point, Hauser and hopefully Kalif Young will battle at the 4, the rest will be resolved by the chemistry of
the older players.
Not sure if you meant to, but Haanif is going to be one of, if not the primary, go to players. He's got a year of experience and as much, if not more talent, then the rest of the go to list.
I think the core players next season will be Reinhardt, Fischer, JjJ, Rowsey, Duane, and Haanif....with everyone else facilitating the core based on how well they are playing that day. This assumes Duane returns to his potential. This past season was pretty bad for him, if he figures his game out, he could be really good....if not his minutes go to Haanif, JjJ, and Reinhardt
Quote from: HoopsterBC on April 11, 2016, 09:10:51 AM
Bottom line is that you can not turn the ball over 17-18 times a game and win. That alone will make them a better team! Less turnovers, more shots.
Except that every rebound you don't get that you did last year is like a turnover because you don't get possession that you did last year. In fact you could probably argue that its worse to give up offensive rebounds because the likelihood of the other team scoring is much higher than off a typical play because the defense isn't set. That said you don't have to be tall to rebound well. It will be on the coaching staff to teach good fundamentals like boxing out and team rebounding and the guys will have to use the quickness advantage a small player should have and simply the desire to get the ball. Hope someone on Wojo's staff knows how to teach that.
It's way too early for this exercise. There are still 2-3 moves coming.
The 2009-10 Warriors, with Lazar, Jimmy, DJO, Acker, Cooby and Buycks, ranked 200th or worse in total rebounds, offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds, and we naturally were outrebounded on the season. Opponents also made 50% of their 2-point FGs against our lads. But we were 4th nationally in 3-point shooting (.413), making 101 more 3s than our opponents, which was huge. We also were in the top-40 in fewest turnovers, steals, assists and FT%.
So a team can be small and get outrebounded and still do well in a great conference. (And the BE was a killer conference back then.)
Now all we have to do is have a couple of these guys become True Warriors like Jimmy, Lazar and DJO!
Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 08:21:14 AM
I remember Ners making this argument back in the day.....ARE YOU NERS?!??!? Did you play high school basketball and dunk on someone once??? ANSWER ME!!!!
No, he isn't...but think UTEP.
Quote from: TSmith34 on April 11, 2016, 10:40:56 AM
No, he isn't...but think UTEP.
OH, well that's less fun
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 10, 2016, 08:46:21 AM
Duane Wilson is the guy of everyone who I think better improve his game a lot, or else he's going to get passed over for minutes. He's not very big, he's not a PG, his decision making is often poor, and he's a streaky shooter.
Duane is pretty decent 3PT shooter and is fearless when the game is on the line. However, I agree his decision making is poor and most importantly last year his defense was non-existent. A guy with his quickness shouldn't have been unable to keep anyone in front of him.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 08:21:14 AM
I remember Ners making this argument back in the day.....ARE YOU NERS?!??!? Did you play high school basketball and dunk on someone once??? ANSWER ME!!!!
NERS was right on many things. Yes he made this comment many times and I agree with it.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on April 11, 2016, 10:50:36 AM
NERS was right on many things. Yes he made this comment many times and I agree with it.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--fz52ZiEY--/o9cyhzydwc6dogwsyd6o.jpg)
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 11, 2016, 09:20:22 AM
Elementary. We know the weaknesses of the returning players. The new guys haven't missed a shot or turned it over yet. Midway through the season we'll be salivating over the 2017 recruits.
+1 I think there is a lot of truth to this. Die hard fans always remember the misses before the remember the makes
Quote from: MU82 on April 10, 2016, 11:41:17 PM
As for Duane, I'm not sure what to think. I understand the views of those who say he has the most to lose with all these newbies, and it was frustrating to watch him at times last season. Still, he was the guy who stepped up in the clutch in several games. He has "onions," as Raftery says. And he will be a third-year player who will be in his fourth year around the team. It's hard to replace that kind of experience -- not just in age and years but in a guy who has been willing to take big shots and sometimes able to make them.
Quote from: TSmith34 on April 11, 2016, 10:45:21 AM
Duane is pretty decent 3PT shooter and is fearless when the game is on the line. However, I agree his decision making is poor and most importantly last year his defense was non-existent. A guy with his quickness shouldn't have been unable to keep anyone in front of him.
Not widely advertised, but folks should know (remember?) that Duane was not necessarily 100% healthy a good part of last season. He *should* do better next year.
Quote from: MU82 on April 11, 2016, 10:09:52 AM
The 2009-10 Warriors, with Lazar, Jimmy, DJO, Acker, Cooby and Buycks, ranked 200th or worse in total rebounds, offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds, and we naturally were outrebounded on the season. Opponents also made 50% of their 2-point FGs against our lads. But we were 4th nationally in 3-point shooting (.413), making 101 more 3s than our opponents, which was huge. We also were in the top-40 in fewest turnovers, steals, assists and FT%.
eFG% is still king, and if we are a lights out shooting team that will fix a lot of our other problems. Last year, 14 of the top 23 adjusted eFG% teams made the tourney and another four would have been in if not for probation (SMU) or conference tourney upsets (Belmont, North Florida, St. Mary's).
But even that team had two pretty good rebounders in Hayward and Butler, while Fulce helped out off the bench. Even our 6'11" big man hasn't proven as reliable on the defensive glass as any of those three.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2016, 02:32:07 PM
But even that team had two pretty good rebounders in Hayward and Butler, while Fulce helped out off the bench. Even our 6'11" big man hasn't proven as reliable on the defensive glass as any of those three.
Some is on Luke, but some is on how teams played us/we played defense. Luke was on the perimeter a far amount because of pick and rolls so not in a position to get a board or was helping off on weakside defense when the other team reversed the ball too quickly for the weakside defense.
He's fundamentally capable of getting the rebounds, just a question of putting him in a position to be successful.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 11, 2016, 01:48:28 PM
Not widely advertised, but folks should know (remember?) that Duane was not necessarily 100% healthy a good part of last season. He *should* do better next year.
I thought that was essentially healed up by the 2nd half of the conference season?
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2016, 02:32:07 PM
eFG% is still king, and if we are a lights out shooting team that will fix a lot of our other problems. Last year, 14 of the top 23 adjusted eFG% teams made the tourney and another four would have been in if not for probation (SMU) or conference tourney upsets (Belmont, North Florida, St. Mary's).
But even that team had two pretty good rebounders in Hayward and Butler, while Fulce helped out off the bench. Even our 6'11" big man hasn't proven as reliable on the defensive glass as any of those three.
That's what I was gonna mention. Jimmy and Lazar were good enough on the glass. We definitely don't got anyone close on paper to those guys right now.
Maybe someone steps up and collects some boards though.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 02:50:16 PM
I thought that was essentially healed up by the 2nd half of the conference season?
I thought (perhaps wrongly) that we saw a tweet near the end of the season that he still wasn't 100%
But can't locate it right now.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 11, 2016, 03:19:08 PM
I thought (perhaps wrongly) that we saw a tweet near the end of the season that he still wasn't 100%
But can't locate it right now.
I also heard Duane was never 100% healthy this year, and that was after the season.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 11, 2016, 02:48:17 PM
Some is on Luke, but some is on how teams played us/we played defense. Luke was on the perimeter a far amount because of pick and rolls so not in a position to get a board or was helping off on weakside defense when the other team reversed the ball too quickly for the weakside defense.
He's fundamentally capable of getting the rebounds, just a question of putting him in a position to be successful.
On the defensive side, Luke is pretty good at boxing out the opponent's big guy. He just doesn't have a nose for the ball, quickness, or leaping ability to be a good defensive rebounder. He needs a guy next to him who can take advantage of his box outs. Henry did it this pass season. Unless we add another big man, I fear we will not have that this upcoming season.
Quote from: TSmith34 on April 11, 2016, 10:45:21 AM
Duane is pretty decent 3PT shooter and is fearless when the game is on the line. However, I agree his decision making is poor and most importantly last year his defense was non-existent. A guy with his quickness shouldn't have been unable to keep anyone in front of him.
This is absolutely a subjective opinion. "defense non-existent". Just not accurate. I watched almost every game last season, and his defense was average, like lots of others on the team. Many rave that Cheatham is a great defender, but the same could be said of Cheatham, as well as decision making. If Wilson's defense was non-existent, then why would that all American defender Wojo play him? Unless you believe Wojo knows not what he is doing! C'mon man!
I would love a 4-out, 1-in offense. Plant 2 shooters in the corners (and flashing around the arc when someone is driving), 2 slashers/ball-handlers at the top/wing and 1 big down low. Iso the big down low, pick and pop on the outside, pick and roll with the big, etc. Slashers slash, shooters are there for the kick-out.