Probably not what the NCAA intended with the rule change, but f them.
From Calipari:
John Calipari @UKCoachCalipari
With that being said, every player who is eligible for the draft, including our walk-ons, will submit their names for the NBA Draft ...
... in hopes of being invited to the combine in May.
The new rule states they can submit their name a total of three times. If they choose to withdraw, they have until 10 days after the combine
It's a true win-win for the student-athlete.
The system is so effed up.
And I hate Kentucky with a passion. Almost as much as Bucky and ND, a game I absolutely won't watch.
I hope they forget to withdraw.
This is why Scoop shouldn't, but absolutely will (....death, taxes and Scoop overreactions and all) react to Luke, Haanif, JjJ, and maybe Duane declaring and seeing if they get an invite. Might as well get a free evaluation from NBA scouts as to their potential and/or what to work on.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2016, 03:39:58 PM
Probably not what the NCAA intended with the rule change, but f them.
From Calipari:
John Calipari @UKCoachCalipari
With that being said, every player who is eligible for the draft, including our walk-ons, will submit their names for the NBA Draft ...
... in hopes of being invited to the combine in May.
The new rule states they can submit their name a total of three times. If they choose to withdraw, they have until 10 days after the combine
It's a true win-win for the student-athlete.
And this is how good things go away. The NCAA expands the option for players to assess their future, Kentucky abuses that option, the option gets taken away. I'd be surprised if this new extended declaration duration lasts with schools doing stuff like this. That the walk-ons are declaring as well is a blatant indicator that Kentucky is thumbing their nose at the NCAA.
It could be a mess for the NBA if more teams/players think like Kentucky, but ultimately declaring is only the first step. You still need to get a combine invite (only about 60 of those), or get a team to work you out. The NBA can just ignore anyone they have no interest in, or turn them down flat.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2016, 04:03:46 PM
And this is how good things go away. The NCAA expands the option for players to assess their future, Kentucky abuses that option, the option gets taken away. I'd be surprised if this new extended declaration duration lasts with schools doing stuff like this. That the walk-ons are declaring as well is a blatant indicator that Kentucky is thumbing their nose at the NCAA.
I'm good with what Kentucky is doing, even (especially?) the thumbing their noses at the NCAA part.
This is a good opportunity for the athletes to assess their prospects. Why should they not take advantage of it?
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on March 23, 2016, 04:31:30 PM
It could be a mess for the NBA if more teams/players think like Kentucky, but ultimately declaring is only the first step. You still need to get a combine invite (only about 60 of those), or get a team to work you out. The NBA can just ignore anyone they have no interest in, or turn them down flat.
Yep. The NBA will just ignore the silly stuff.
Somehow, a school like Weber State is gonna pay big-time for this...just to show everyone who is in control.
There are always a bunch of players who declare for the draft from small schools and jucos who do it just for the sake of it. No biggie here. Cals probably using it as a recruiting tool
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2016, 04:03:46 PM
And this is how good things go away. The NCAA expands the option for players to assess their future, Kentucky abuses that option, the option gets taken away. I'd be surprised if this new extended declaration duration lasts with schools doing stuff like this. That the walk-ons are declaring as well is a blatant indicator that Kentucky is thumbing their nose at the NCAA.
Do we not like NCAA nose-thumbing? https://www.facebook.com/AlMcGuiresWarriors/photos/a.528174263961728.1073741829.522393924539762/904717366307414/?type=3&theater
Dumb question: Does the "three times" include one's Senior Year?
Quote from: warriorchick on March 23, 2016, 05:50:42 PM
Dumb question: Does the "three times" include one's Senior Year?
Only if they have another year of eligibility afterwards.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2016, 04:03:46 PM
And this is how good things go away. The NCAA expands the option for players to assess their future, Kentucky abuses that option, the option gets taken away. I'd be surprised if this new extended declaration duration lasts with schools doing stuff like this. That the walk-ons are declaring as well is a blatant indicator that Kentucky is thumbing their nose at the NCAA.
That's exactly WHY Cal is doing this. Cal does not benefit 1 bit from this new rule, while a lot of other schools do big time. Call recruits guys who are hiring an agent as soon as they lose. Other schools get the benefit of some kids being on the fence and having the ability to come back to school if they don't hear what they're looking for. Cal wants to force a kid to make a final decision as early as possible, because most of the kids he has are going to do that anyway.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 23, 2016, 06:06:29 PM
That's exactly WHY Cal is doing this. Cal does not benefit 1 bit from this new rule, while a lot of other schools do big time. Call recruits guys who are hiring an agent as soon as they lose. Other schools get the benefit of some kids being on the fence and having the ability to come back to school if they don't hear what they're looking for. Cal wants to force a kid to make a final decision as early as possible, because most of the kids he has are going to do that anyway.
But doesn't this allow kids to delay their final decision more than under the previous rules (from mid-April to late May)?
How does it force them to decide sooner? If anything, it hurts Cal because it forces him to leave scholarships open well past the spring signing period (when he's often done well) for kids who may return.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2016, 06:11:45 PM
But doesn't this allow kids to delay their final decision more than under the previous rules (from mid-April to late May)?
How does it force them to decide sooner? If anything, it hurts Cal because it forces him to leave scholarships open well past the spring signing period (when he's often done well) for kids who may return.
So you agree with wades world?
It seems there are a lot of top kids who are on the Kentucky bubble or Duke bubble who wait until April to see how many scholarships are available for next year. I wonder how this new rule will affect them.
I'm a little torn about this, but I'm thinking I'd rather have Henry say he's going and hire an agent,or say right now he's staying, rather than test the waters. He knows he's a first round, probable lottery pick. It would be tough for the team and the fans if he strings us along.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2016, 06:11:45 PM
But doesn't this allow kids to delay their final decision more than under the previous rules (from mid-April to late May)?
How does it force them to decide sooner? If anything, it hurts Cal because it forces him to leave scholarships open well past the spring signing period (when he's often done well) for kids who may return.
HW is saying Cal is doing this to force the NCAA to go back to the old rule. Because the old rule benefitted Cal.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 23, 2016, 06:06:29 PM
That's exactly WHY Cal is doing this. Cal does not benefit 1 bit from this new rule, while a lot of other schools do big time. Call recruits guys who are hiring an agent as soon as they lose. Other schools get the benefit of some kids being on the fence and having the ability to come back to school if they don't hear what they're looking for. Cal wants to force a kid to make a final decision as early as possible, because most of the kids he has are going to do that anyway.
But this rule does the opposite of that. Take off your tin foil hat.
This is perfectly fine and every team should do it. This is what the rule is made for. To see your pro chances.
Nvm, read it wrong.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2016, 03:39:58 PM
Probably not what the NCAA intended with the rule change, but f them.
From Calipari:
John Calipari @UKCoachCalipari
With that being said, every player who is eligible for the draft, including our walk-ons, will submit their names for the NBA Draft ...
... in hopes of being invited to the combine in May.
The new rule states they can submit their name a total of three times. If they choose to withdraw, they have until 10 days after the combine
It's a true win-win for the student-athlete.
It's not an NCAA decision per se, it is driven by the NBA in reality. The NCAA is stuck no matter what on this.
Quote from: jsglow on March 23, 2016, 03:44:49 PM
The system is so effed up.
And I hate Kentucky with a passion. Almost as much as Bucky and ND, a game I absolutely won't watch.
Which is why it was so great to see IU beat them, heenay?
I like the rule and I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the Kentucky kids are doing.
Most of them won't get invited to the combine, making their candidacy moot.
The real pro prospects will benefit from this rule, and I like just about any rule that gives the kids a little power.
The system is skewed toward the rich and powerful, but every time the kids get even a little advantage -- for example, this new rule (which actually is just returning to the rule of about a decade ago) or the graduate transfer rule -- the rich and powerful cry like babies that it isn't "fair" and must be changed.
I think Cal is basically making a point to recruits:
If you've got the talent, Kentucky is just fine with you coming to play for a single year. We actually encourage it. As a coach, I'm there at the draft with my players and celebrate their NBA success. If an NBA career is your goal, you'll find no better place to pursue it than Kentucky.
From the NBA's perspective, not sure it means anything. It's legal paperwork related to NCAA eligibility. Doesn't mean NBA teams have to scout more players or that the combine will be expanded.
Why doesn't the NCAA make every player in the country eligible.
They invite 60. If you get invited, they are telling you something. If you are not invited, they are also telling you something.
Then both groups (those invited and those that are not) know where they stand and can prepare for the next stage of their life.
Some will start taking French classes. Others might go to the library and start studying.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 23, 2016, 07:51:22 PM
Why doesn't the NBA make every player in the country eligible.
They invite 60. If you get invited, they are telling you something. If you are not invited, they are also telling you something.
Then both groups (those invited and those that are not) know where they stand and can prepare for the next stage of their life.
Some will start taking French classes. Other might go to the library and start studying.
I'm quite sure you don't have to be invited to the combine to be able to use this new rule. The combine just helps define the "date of no return" by which an athlete must declare his intentions.
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 23, 2016, 07:48:52 PM
I think Cal is basically making a point to recruits:
If you've got the talent, Kentucky is just fine with you coming to play for a single year. We actually encourage it. As a coach, I'm there at the draft with my players and celebrate their NBA success. If an NBA career is your goal, you'll find no better place to pursue it than Kentucky.
From the NBA's perspective, not sure it means anything. It's legal paperwork related to NCAA eligibility. Doesn't mean NBA teams have to scout more players or that the combine will be expanded.
To me it says, I'm an attention grabbing A-hole, that will force people (walk-ons) to do something meaningless to prove a point and put me in the spotlight.
Quote from: forgetful on March 23, 2016, 08:19:59 PM
To me it says, I'm an attention grabbing A-hole, that will force people (walk-ons) to do something meaningless to prove a point and put me in the spotlight.
No.
What it says is, Cal knows coaches hate this because it leaves them in roster limbo for much longer. So what 349 D1 coaches view as a problem, Cal (pretends) to embrace to curry favor with recruits. Everything Cal done is to the point of improving his recruiting. Cal will piss off all of BBN with a statement as long as he's sure 17 year old will like it.
He's sort of a genius.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on March 23, 2016, 06:30:10 PM
So you agree with wades world?
Yeah, I think I completely misunderstood what he was stating.
My bad, WW.
Quote from: MU82 on March 23, 2016, 07:52:36 PM
I'm quite sure you don't have to be invited to the combine to be able to use this new rule. The combine just helps define the "date of no return" by which an athlete must declare his intentions.
Yep, they are also allowed one tryout per NBA team. Excessive to push the walk-ons to do it because the coach wants attention, but when they've set the rule to have no downside it's worth it for many players to declare and get the feedback.
Quote from: The Lens on March 23, 2016, 08:30:04 PMHe's sort of a genius.
Too bad for Kentucky fans that Cal is more of a genius at marketing/recruiting than he is at coaching.
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 23, 2016, 09:22:03 PM
Too bad for Kentucky fans that Cal is more of a genius at marketing/recruiting than he is at coaching.
I think for the most part they're OK with four Final Fours in the last six seasons and an .821 winning percentage.
I think Cal is being smart on this. He knows he is going to lose some of the players anyways. This might keep the best ones from hiring an agent, since this is almost a team thing. However, where I think he is really smart is that it is like getting extra coaching for the players that do end up returning. Even if they do not get invited to the combine, if I am remembering it correctly, they can go to one team for a workout. A player goes through a team's workout and receives instruction on how to improve his game, which will be a benefit to Kentucky next season.
Cal has outsourced his offseason/summer training and skill development to the NBA.
Nice work Cal!
Quote from: MU82 on March 23, 2016, 07:47:34 PM
I like the rule and I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the Kentucky kids are doing.
Most of them won't get invited to the combine, making their candidacy moot.
The real pro prospects will benefit from this rule, and I like just about any rule that gives the kids a little power.
The system is skewed toward the rich and powerful, but every time the kids get even a little advantage -- for example, this new rule (which actually is just returning to the rule of about a decade ago) or the graduate transfer rule -- the rich and powerful cry like babies that it isn't "fair" and must be changed.
Yeah, this is how I feel. The one legit rule in college basketball where it rewards players for graduating and everyone flips out because a 23 year old wants to attend a different college for his final year.
Quote from: MU82 on March 23, 2016, 07:47:34 PMI like the rule and I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the Kentucky kids are doing.
I love the rule, I just feel that the NCAA will be happy to change it if they feel offended. They so often seem like such a petty organization. I don't trust them to continue allowing this if their little feelings get hurt.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2016, 09:30:14 PMI think for the most part they're OK with four Final Fours in the last six seasons and an .821 winning percentage.
Good point. Hard to name someone who's been as successful with so much young talent. He probably got outcoached against Wisconsin last season, but that was only one game. I just don't like him.
Quote from: The Lens on March 23, 2016, 08:30:04 PM
He's sort of a genius.
Well, if nothing else, he really likes being in the news.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2016, 10:15:43 PM
I love the rule, I just feel that the NCAA will be happy to change it if they feel offended. They so often seem like such a petty organization. I don't trust them to continue allowing this if their little feelings get hurt.
Basically, I like the rule if it helps us and don't if it hurts us. If Henry waits until mid-May and then decides to enter the draft and we can't replace him with a useful PF because kids were afraid to come here and sit behind him, I will not be too fond of the rule. If that were to happen, then, despite how well he played, taking Henry as a one and done will have been net counter-productive to our success.
(Actually, I really like the rule, just don't like that it could cost us this year)
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 24, 2016, 08:25:35 AM
(Actually, I really like the rule, just don't like that it could cost us this year)
I wish it would cost us every year -- it would mean we had more good players right?
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 23, 2016, 09:22:03 PM
Too bad for Kentucky fans that Cal is more of a genius at marketing/recruiting than he is at coaching.
4 final fours in 6 years. In the sweet 16 right now. Something tells me he's doing all right. He's been to more final fours in the past 6 years then we've had over our entire history.
Quote from: #UnleashWally on March 24, 2016, 12:32:32 PM
4 final fours in 6 years. In the sweet 16 right now. Something tells me he's doing all right. He's been to more final fours in the past 6 years then we've had over our entire history.
Err...
Quote from: #UnleashWally on March 24, 2016, 12:32:32 PM
4 final fours in 6 years. In the sweet 16 right now. Something tells me he's doing all right. He's been to more final fours in the past 6 years then we've had over our entire history.
Crean sucks.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 23, 2016, 10:15:43 PM
I love the rule, I just feel that the NCAA will be happy to change it if they feel offended. They so often seem like such a petty organization. I don't trust them to continue allowing this if their little feelings get hurt.
If "they" change it, it will be because the member schools vote for it to be changed. The "pettiness" would come from the members.
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 23, 2016, 11:21:33 PM
Good point. Hard to name someone who's been as successful with so much young talent. He probably got outcoached against Wisconsin last season, but that was only one game. I just don't like him.
He got outcoached last Saturday as well.
The NCAA and the NBA need to work out the rules regarding the eligibility of players. I think college ball should be considered a good training ground for the NBA with the understanding that players are not eligible to sign an NBA contract until they are at least 21 or college graduation. This will give players time to mature, receive an education and improve their game while helping their college team win. Now it seems that the "one and dones" are hardly worth cheering for. Perhaps that's why Cal and other coaches don't seem to coach them well.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 25, 2016, 01:30:23 PM
The NCAA and the NBA need to work out the rules regarding the eligibility of players. I think college ball should be considered a good training ground for the NBA with the understanding that players are not eligible to sign an NBA contract until they are at least 21 or college graduation. This will give players time to mature, receive an education and improve their game while helping their college team win. Now it seems that the "one and dones" are hardly worth cheering for. Perhaps that's why Cal and other coaches don't seem to coach them well.
NBA players union would never go for this.
Just to get a second year of college mandated, the union would insist upon significant concessions from owners. The owners will not give those concessions, IMHO, therefore even that won't happen.
So it's fun to talk about such stuff, but doing so is sheer folly.
As for whether Cal and other coaches have not coached 1-and-dones "well," Calipari, Coach K and Boeheim (to name a few) have coached them well enough to win championships with them, so I'm not sure what that even means.
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2016, 12:03:39 AM
NBA players union would never go for this.
Just to get a second year of college mandated, the union would insist upon significant concessions from owners. The owners will not give those concessions, IMHO, therefore even that won't happen.
I know this is true. But I really don't understand why. Isn't the job of the union to protect current players? Wouldn't current players benefit by keeping the owners from bringing in young bucks with high potential that aren't NBA ready to replace the current players? I think the only people "hurt" by this the proposal are the future NBA players who now need to spend three years in college instead of one. I really think both the owners and the union would benefit greatly from this.
I really don't pay attention to the NBA enough to know why my thinking is wrong.
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 23, 2016, 09:22:03 PM
Too bad for Kentucky fans that Cal is more of a genius at marketing/recruiting than he is at coaching.
We had problems playing three freshmen this year. Now Cal has had multiple McDonald's Americans, but every year he is molding freshmen that are used to be the star into a pretty good team. I am not sure any other coach would of done better than he has with the same players over the last 5 years.
I hate Cal. He's a symbol of everything wrong with college athletics in today's age.
That being said, he's a helluva coach. Other programs have the resources and game the system just like Kentucky. Cal is the only one that makes it work on that high of a level
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 23, 2016, 06:06:29 PM
That's exactly WHY Cal is doing this. Cal does not benefit 1 bit from this new rule, while a lot of other schools do big time. Call recruits guys who are hiring an agent as soon as they lose. Other schools get the benefit of some kids being on the fence and having the ability to come back to school if they don't hear what they're looking for. Cal wants to force a kid to make a final decision as early as possible, because most of the kids he has are going to do that anyway.
Absolutely cal benefits from this. In at least two ways: 1) players see that Kentucky players get noticed. Cal's system must get players NBA ready in some form or another and he always seems to have pretty competitive teams. When was the last time Kentucky had a losing record and/or didn't make the big dance? 2) it opens up roster spots for the new brood to come in and...circle of basketball life
Quote from: forgetful on March 23, 2016, 08:19:59 PM
To me it says, I'm an attention grabbing A-hole, that will force people (walk-ons) to do something meaningless to prove a point and put me in the spotlight.
I don't like it much either. It's hard to identify with the NBA when half(or more) of the players one hasn't even heard of or vaguely remember much about. It's also hard on the ncaa to develop an identity. Cheezus, when Frankie k came out, one of the criticisms was he was too OLD!?!
But, at this point, ya can fight the system, might as well lay back and enjoy it I guess
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on March 26, 2016, 12:16:53 AM
I know this is true. But I really don't understand why. Isn't the job of the union to protect current players? Wouldn't current players benefit by keeping the owners from bringing in young bucks with high potential that aren't NBA ready to replace the current players? I think the only people "hurt" by this the proposal are the future NBA players who now need to spend three years in college instead of one. I really think both the owners and the union would benefit greatly from this.
I really don't pay attention to the NBA enough to know why my thinking is wrong.
It is the union's job to protect current players and future generations of players.
Why should the union agree to let owners delay paying players until they turn 21? The union wants players earning as soon as possible, getting to that second contract as soon as possible. The more money a 20-year-old or 25-year-old makes, the more money a 30-year-old makes.
Three comments...
1. Kentucky should join the NBA.
2. The NBA sucks. It's boring to watch.
3. The quality of NCAA basketball needs to be preserved by keeping its good players.
well at least they don't have to have a senior night every year-heyn'a?
except for the fact that, believe it or not, they did have a senior this year-alex poythress. i don't know what his problem was? actually, he might have been in it for academic reasons-no joke-CoSIDA's 2nd team all-america honor roll, one of 4 finalists for arthur ashe award, 3 time all SEC academic honor roll, earned his business marketing degree in 3 years. impressive! also played quite a role too, statistically speaking. had an ACL issue last year. calipari must have missed the academic part when he was being recruited
my thoughts are that if you make it to your senior year at kentucky and you are still on the b-ball team, you ain't a typical kentucky type hoopster. i mean their fans have to get to know a whole new group every year