MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on March 04, 2016, 03:25:04 PM

Title: JJ's ceiling
Post by: tower912 on March 04, 2016, 03:25:04 PM
The last few games from JJ is what I think we all have been waiting for and expecting since he arrived at Marquette.   I recognize that this is potentially opening a can of worms, but IMO he has finally bought into what Wojo and company have been preaching and the benching during the second half of the first Creighton game was the final turning point.   
   So, is this finally the new normal?     If so, what are your expectations from him next season?   I do not believe there is any way he can play the 4.    I don't think he could possibly add enough muscle to compete with the 240 lb'ers.    I think he starts at the 3 and averages 15/5/3/2 (steals).   And I think he has finally bought in enough that he becomes a leader next year.    What we have seen over the last few games IS the new normal.   
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: GGGG on March 04, 2016, 03:28:33 PM
Depends on the line up they are facing, but I think it might be fun to see a line up of Luke, JJJ, Duane, Traci and Haanif.  I think Haanif can guard a bigger more athletic guy better than JJJ.  (In fact I think that might end up being our starting line up next year anyway.)

I think JJJ is going to have a great year next year.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: tower912 on March 04, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Haanif guarded Copeland during the G-town game when JJ couldn't handle him.   
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on March 04, 2016, 03:35:11 PM
In terms of guessing actual numbers, it depends on the roster looks like. If Henry stays or we get a quality grad transfer PF, then there will be less shots and boards for JJJ.

Assuming HE leaves and no grad transfer? I think 15/5/3/2 is a very realistic stat line. I could see even more rebounds. We are going to need him to be very active on the boards if we are going to be any good.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: MerrittsMustache on March 04, 2016, 03:47:51 PM
Since the first St. John's game where he played only 10 minutes, JJJ's stats have been...

13 G
12 GS
28.8 min
12.4 pts
63-114 FG (55.3%)
12-26 3P (46.2%)
23-30 FT (76.7%)
4.3 reb
2.8 ast
1.6 stl
0.2 blk
2.0 TO

Obviously his FG% won't stay that high but 15/5/3/2 seems very realistic for next season.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: We R Final Four on March 04, 2016, 04:03:50 PM
I love what JJ has done all around this season-especially on the offensive end. Not pressing too hard. Getting to the lane, etc.
However, JJ's weak side rebounding is very bad. 2 or 3 times a game, he is caught looking at the dribbler/shooter while effortlessly his man rebounds a missed shot on the weakside. This needs to improve next season.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on March 04, 2016, 04:12:58 PM
And the it's no coincidence the only blah game we've had recently is the one where JJJ was benched for a half for pretty much no reason at all.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: CAGASS24 on March 04, 2016, 04:57:30 PM
Offensively no doubt possible - his defense remains, imo, awful and he seems to continue to lose intensity at times - but all around been a pleasant surprise this year with his offense
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on March 04, 2016, 05:01:29 PM
Agree.   JJJ reminds me of a guy that wore no.24 and plAyed for Al.  He would take over games in the second half.  I think JJJ can be that good.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: bilsu on March 04, 2016, 05:14:34 PM
I think he is going to have a big senior season(600+ points).
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: hdog1017 on March 04, 2016, 05:44:44 PM
Will probably average 25 a game next year. 
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: brandx on March 04, 2016, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 04, 2016, 03:28:33 PM
Depends on the line up they are facing, but I think it might be fun to see a line up of Luke, JJJ, Duane, Traci and Haanif.  I think Haanif can guard a bigger more athletic guy better than JJJ.  (In fact I think that might end up being our starting line up next year anyway.)

I think JJJ is going to have a great year next year.

I know Duke liked to use a lot of guards on the floor at the same time, but I can't see a starting lineup with a center and 4 guards (unless, God forbid, we have no choice). JJJ may be playing forward for us, but he is a wing guard.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: bobnoxious on March 04, 2016, 07:07:31 PM
Quote from: hdog1017 on March 04, 2016, 05:44:44 PM
Will probably average 25 a game next year.

Wheres next years final four? Need to book tickets if thats gonna happen
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Lennys Tap on March 04, 2016, 08:23:46 PM
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 04, 2016, 05:01:29 PM
Agree.   JJJ reminds me of a guy that wore no.24 and plAyed for Al.  He would take over games in the second half.  I think JJJ can be that good.

For the first time in almost 3 years JJ has put together a real run. I'm bullish going forward and think he could be 2nd or 3rd team all big east next year - but George Thompson good? No way, no how.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 04, 2016, 08:51:05 PM
There is absolutely zero comparison between Johnson and Brute Force, ai na?
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: mug644 on March 04, 2016, 09:01:14 PM
Quote from: tower912 on March 04, 2016, 03:25:04 PM
...I do not believe there is any way he can play the 4.    I don't think he could possibly add enough muscle to compete with the 240 lb'ers...   

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 04, 2016, 03:28:33 PM
...I think Haanif can guard a bigger more athletic guy better than JJJ...

Quote from: tower912 on March 04, 2016, 03:30:08 PM
Haanif guarded Copeland during the G-town game when JJ couldn't handle him.

Copeland isn't exactly that 240lb power forward that Tower (correctly) worries about JJJ guarding. I don't really believe that Haanif could defend such a player either, leaving the reality that the team needs a bulky 4 for next year, not necessarily to replace Henry's offense, but to play defense (and better than Henry does).
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on March 04, 2016, 09:40:47 PM
Forever, please drop the main na.  It will help your credibility.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: MU82 on March 04, 2016, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 04, 2016, 03:47:51 PM
Since the first St. John's game where he played only 10 minutes, JJJ's stats have been...

13 G
12 GS
28.8 min
12.4 pts
63-114 FG (55.3%)
12-26 3P (46.2%)
23-30 FT (76.7%)
4.3 reb
2.8 ast
1.6 stl
0.2 blk
2.0 TO

Obviously his FG% won't stay that high but 15/5/3/2 seems very realistic for next season.

Hokey smokes ... I knew he was shooting 3s better, but I didn't know he was almost at 50%. Yowsa!
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: WarriorFan on March 04, 2016, 10:47:14 PM
I guess the improved shooting form really works!

I think we're dealing with a lot of raw talent in JJJ who came through HS and AAU systems that didn't  develop players at all, just throw out the ball and let 'em run - and then Brent didn't develop players much so he's had now two years of actual focused coaching trying to get him better - and he's responded exceptionally well.  Another year of this type of improvement and I think he's better than Vander.

- better shooter
- quicker
- taller
- equally good defensively, better when he focuses
- better at getting into the passing lanes (in a system that lets him do so)
- I'm guessing he has a longer wing span
- better at passing, especially in the lane

Well done to the coaching staff and to JJJ. 
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: brandx on March 04, 2016, 11:42:11 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 04, 2016, 08:23:46 PM
For the first time in almost 3 years JJ has put together a real run. I'm bullish going forward and think he could be 2nd or 3rd team all big east next year - but George Thompson good? No way, no how.

Saying JJJ can be as good as Brute Force is like saying I can be as rich as Bill gates.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 05, 2016, 03:48:30 AM
I see JJ as in the same boat as Jamil Wilson. A guy who has always had ton of talent, who showed flashes of stardom, but could never pull himself into being a competent high caliber player. Unlike Jamil, I believe that JJ has finally found himself, and has learned how to bring his full talents to each game.

What do these two players differ in? Coaching. Credit to Wojo, or whoever brought this kid into what we see now, unlike what Buzz did with Wilson.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: mug644 on March 05, 2016, 05:51:30 AM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on March 05, 2016, 03:48:30 AM
What do these two players differ in? Coaching. Credit to Wojo, or whoever brought this kid into what we see now, unlike what Buzz did with Wilson.

You almost undermine your own theory about coaching being the difference when you say, "or whoever brought this kid into what we see now." Maybe JJ is the whoever. Perhaps he's opted to commit himself to improving and being consistent in a way that Jamil never did. Plus, don't we all say it was Buzz who transformed JFB, for example?
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Anti-Dentite on March 05, 2016, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: mug644 on March 05, 2016, 05:51:30 AM
You almost undermine your own theory about coaching being the difference when you say, "or whoever brought this kid into what we see now." Maybe JJ is the whoever. Perhaps he's opted to commit himself to improving and being consistent in a way that Jamil never did. Plus, don't we all say it was Buzz who transformed JFB, for example?
Seriously, when did this revisionist history begin regarding Buzz. I get that many hate him but come on, the guy was very good with player development.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 05, 2016, 07:56:34 AM
Quote from: Anti-Dentite on March 05, 2016, 07:54:03 AM
Seriously, when did this revisionist history begin regarding Buzz. I get that many hate him but come on, the guy was very good with player development.

He had a lot of success with experienced players....with young players not so much.  I am a fan of Buzz - but that is the track record.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: GGGG on March 05, 2016, 08:03:13 AM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on March 05, 2016, 03:48:30 AM
I see JJ as in the same boat as Jamil Wilson. A guy who has always had ton of talent, who showed flashes of stardom, but could never pull himself into being a competent high caliber player. Unlike Jamil, I believe that JJ has finally found himself, and has learned how to bring his full talents to each game.

What do these two players differ in? Coaching. Credit to Wojo, or whoever brought this kid into what we see now, unlike what Buzz did with Wilson.

IMO at no point has JJJ been a better player than Jamil. Maybe he will have a better senior year but I think you are underrating Jamil.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 05, 2016, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 05, 2016, 08:03:13 AM
IMO at no point has JJJ been a better player than Jamil. Maybe he will have a better senior year but I think you are underrating Jamil.

Jamil:

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=cbb&url=%2Fcbb%2Fplayers%2Fjamil-wilson-1.html&div=div_players_per_game"></script>


Jujuan
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: #UnleashSean on March 05, 2016, 12:50:21 PM

Jamil:

Season      G   MP  FG FGA  FG%  2P 2PA  2P%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
2009-10    26 16.9 1.8 4.2 .427 1.5 3.0 .487 0.3 1.2 .281 0.8 1.0 .741 3.2 1.0 0.5 0.5 1.0 2.1  4.7
2011-12    34 24.1 2.8 6.2 .448 2.5 5.4 .464 0.3 0.9 .345 1.2 1.7 .707 4.1 1.1 0.7 1.4 1.1 2.8  7.1
2012-13    35 25.1 3.4 7.7 .444 2.4 4.8 .494 1.0 2.9 .360 1.8 2.5 .744 4.9 1.7 0.6 0.9 1.5 2.4  9.7
2013-14    32 28.9 4.3 9.9 .428 3.3 6.9 .473 1.0 3.1 .327 2.2 3.3 .670 5.9 2.6 0.6 0.5 1.9 2.9 11.7

Jujuan



Season     G   MP  FG FGA  FG%  2P 2PA  2P%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF PTS
2013-14   21 13.5 1.7 3.8 .443 1.2 2.3 .542 0.4 1.5 .290 0.6 0.7 .800 1.1 1.0 0.4 0.1 0.5 0.7 4.3
2014-15   31 21.7 2.7 7.3 .373 2.2 4.9 .447 0.5 2.4 .219 1.3 1.8 .745 2.6 1.8 1.1 0.4 1.6 1.1 7.3
2015-16   29 23.3 3.7 7.2 .510 2.9 5.3 .556 0.8 2.0 .386 1.3 1.8 .736 3.2 1.9 1.5 0.3 1.5 1.5 9.5

I think they are getting pretty close. With jamil getting more effective minutes.

Links to the actual site since formatting is messed.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jamil-wilson-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jajuan-johnson-2.html

(I quoted myself instead of editing =/)
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Jay Bee on March 05, 2016, 12:56:21 PM
His rebounding won't ever be good.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Herman Cain on March 07, 2016, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: tower912 on March 04, 2016, 03:25:04 PM
The last few games from JJ is what I think we all have been waiting for and expecting since he arrived at Marquette.   I recognize that this is potentially opening a can of worms, but IMO he has finally bought into what Wojo and company have been preaching and the benching during the second half of the first Creighton game was the final turning point.   
   So, is this finally the new normal?     If so, what are your expectations from him next season?   I do not believe there is any way he can play the 4.    I don't think he could possibly add enough muscle to compete with the 240 lb'ers.    I think he starts at the 3 and averages 15/5/3/2 (steals).   And I think he has finally bought in enough that he becomes a leader next year.    What we have seen over the last few games IS the new normal.   
JJJ is our best passer and has excellent vision, he is essentially a point forward at this juncture.  I like that he has bought into driving the ball primarily and only taking 3s when wide open and at the end of the shot clock. I have noticed he has recently started to use the left which will only make him more dangerous.  I think the 15/5/3/2 is definitely achievable.  His skill set is exceptional and the coaching staff has worked hard with him to develop an approach that allows him to succeed. The kid is very unselfish on the court and his teammates appreciate that. His big problem was the bone headed plays and that is where the coaching staff has really succeed in terms of eliminating those as much as possible. His steals that lead to fast break dunks are demoralizing for the competition. 
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: forgetful on March 07, 2016, 11:07:15 PM
I'm not saying he will be as good, but I expect him to make a Matthews type jump next year.  His usage will go up a lot and if he puts in the work like he did this year, the sky is the limit.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: MU82 on March 07, 2016, 11:57:16 PM
I agree that Wojo and his staff have done a nice job with JJJ, and I also give JJJ a ton of credit for pushing himself and for being "coachable."

Isn't it kind of funny that only one year ago, Scoop speculation was rampant that JJJ would transfer because Wojo was playing "mind games" with him?
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: MerrittsMustache on March 08, 2016, 08:56:45 AM
Quote from: MU82 on March 07, 2016, 11:57:16 PM
I agree that Wojo and his staff have done a nice job with JJJ, and I also give JJJ a ton of credit for pushing himself and for being "coachable."

Isn't it kind of funny that only one year ago, Scoop speculation was rampant that JJJ would transfer because Wojo was playing "mind games" with him?

Apparently not all Scoopers would respond as well as JJJ to Wojo's "mind games" of telling him to work harder, play better and he'll see the court more.

Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Hubert Davis on March 08, 2016, 09:53:15 AM
I truly believe JJ is NBA material. What he has done this season/second half of this season is what I envisioned when he signed his LOI. I expect a big senior year out of JJ. He'll be heading into next season as the go-to guy with loads of confidence after a breakout junior year. If he continues to add strength and improves his game, he has the tools to play at the highest level.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: GGGG on March 08, 2016, 09:54:54 AM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on March 05, 2016, 12:50:21 PM
Jamil:

Season      G   MP  FG FGA  FG%  2P 2PA  2P%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
2009-10    26 16.9 1.8 4.2 .427 1.5 3.0 .487 0.3 1.2 .281 0.8 1.0 .741 3.2 1.0 0.5 0.5 1.0 2.1  4.7
2011-12    34 24.1 2.8 6.2 .448 2.5 5.4 .464 0.3 0.9 .345 1.2 1.7 .707 4.1 1.1 0.7 1.4 1.1 2.8  7.1
2012-13    35 25.1 3.4 7.7 .444 2.4 4.8 .494 1.0 2.9 .360 1.8 2.5 .744 4.9 1.7 0.6 0.9 1.5 2.4  9.7
2013-14    32 28.9 4.3 9.9 .428 3.3 6.9 .473 1.0 3.1 .327 2.2 3.3 .670 5.9 2.6 0.6 0.5 1.9 2.9 11.7

Jujuan



Season     G   MP  FG FGA  FG%  2P 2PA  2P%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF PTS
2013-14   21 13.5 1.7 3.8 .443 1.2 2.3 .542 0.4 1.5 .290 0.6 0.7 .800 1.1 1.0 0.4 0.1 0.5 0.7 4.3
2014-15   31 21.7 2.7 7.3 .373 2.2 4.9 .447 0.5 2.4 .219 1.3 1.8 .745 2.6 1.8 1.1 0.4 1.6 1.1 7.3
2015-16   29 23.3 3.7 7.2 .510 2.9 5.3 .556 0.8 2.0 .386 1.3 1.8 .736 3.2 1.9 1.5 0.3 1.5 1.5 9.5

I think they are getting pretty close. With jamil getting more effective minutes.

Links to the actual site since formatting is messed.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jamil-wilson-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jajuan-johnson-2.html

(I quoted myself instead of editing =/)


So in other words, my statement is essentially correct: "IMO at no point has JJJ been a better player than Jamil. Maybe he will have a better senior year but I think you are underrating Jamil."

Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: brandx on March 08, 2016, 10:17:06 AM
Quote from: Al Davis on March 08, 2016, 09:53:15 AM
I truly believe JJ is NBA material. What he has done this season/second half of this season is what I envisioned when he signed his LOI. I expect a big senior year out of JJ. He'll be heading into next season as the go-to guy with loads of confidence after a breakout junior year. If he continues to add strength and improves his game, he has the tools to play at the highest level.

I expect a good season next year as well. I think he will be one of the leaders on the team - a role that took a while to grow into. But I don't see where he could fit in the NBA. He is not big or strong enough to play the '3' spot and has not shown that he is a good enough shooter or defender to play the '2'.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: GGGG on March 08, 2016, 10:22:11 AM
Vander Blue is just a little smaller than JJJ, but was a better player at MU than JJJ (mostly because he played both ends consistently).  If Vander can't stick in the NBA, I doubt JJJ will.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: MerrittsMustache on March 08, 2016, 10:40:30 AM
JJJ will be on someone's Summer League roster in 2017 but that's about as close as he'll get to the NBA. He can have a very good career in Europe though. He's a nice player.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: MU82 on March 08, 2016, 01:49:40 PM
As I said in a post just a few above this, I like JJJ as a player and I respect how hard he has worked to improve.

To play in the NBA, he will have to improve significantly over his current level, maybe even 100%. And even then, it will not be an easy road for him.

I wish him well, because if we are talking about JJJ's legit NBA chances a year from now, it will mean he will be having one hell of a 2016-17 season -- and MU probably will be having one hell of a year, too.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: forgetful on March 08, 2016, 02:16:26 PM
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 08, 2016, 10:40:30 AM
JJJ will be on someone's Summer League roster in 2017 but that's about as close as he'll get to the NBA. He can have a very good career in Europe though. He's a nice player.

To be fair, everyone here would have said the same thing about Matthews at this point in his career.  Never underestimate what one can do if they have the heart and the mind to work on it.  JJJ has proven he has the heart and the mind, lets see if there is enough god given talent to get him there.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: MerrittsMustache on March 08, 2016, 02:35:34 PM
Quote from: forgetful on March 08, 2016, 02:16:26 PM
To be fair, everyone here would have said the same thing about Matthews at this point in his career.  Never underestimate what one can do if they have the heart and the mind to work on it.  JJJ has proven he has the heart and the mind, lets see if there is enough god given talent to get him there.

True, but JJJ doesn't have the NBA body that Wes does. Don't underestimate that.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: GGGG on March 08, 2016, 02:37:43 PM
Also Wes was always a good defender.  It was how he stuck in the NBA in the first place.  JJJ just isn't.
Title: Re: JJ's ceiling
Post by: Jay Bee on March 08, 2016, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: forgetful on March 07, 2016, 11:07:15 PM
I'm not saying he will be as good, but I expect him to make a Matthews type jump next year.  His usage will go up a lot and if he puts in the work like he did this year, the sky is the limit.

Let us remember that Wes had a usage of 22.5% as a FROSH.

A part of why JjJ is enjoying a better season this year, imo, is shot selection. He was a 23%+ usage, 25%+ shot guy last year.. this year he's at 19.5% and 22%, respectively...

% of his FGA's that were treys: 39% as a FR, 32% as a SO, 27 this season...

I worry what a 25%+ usage might translate to with regard to JjJ's beautiful eFG% of 56.7%.
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