MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 02:51:44 PM
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Are we better than last year? Yes or no?
Is progress from last year to this year being made? Yes or no?
Are we staying out of the news for all the wrong reasons? Yes or no?
I know my answer is yes on all fronts. We will get better and show progress. If not, then things will change, but think of this through the eyes of an AD, a President, etc. Some of you sound like IU fans, and they are the absolute worst. Don't be like them.
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YES
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Yes, yes, and meh.
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You know it! 13-19 (4-14) will be hard to reciprocate.
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You know it! 13-19 (4-14) will be hard to reciprocate.
'Reciprocate'? Gotta believe the autocorrect got you.
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'Reciprocate'? Gotta believe the autocorrect got you.
8-) repeat*
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Yes, we are better and progress is being made during what I've maintained is truly a classic rebuilding year. Peaks and valleys. Wins on the road at Bucky and Providence. A loss at home to DePaul at the buzzer having a two point lead.
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Yes, yes, and meh.
Again, look at it through the eyes of an AD and a President. Meh may not mean much to the JUST WIN BABY crowd, I guarantee you it means a TON to those guys, to many donors, etc. It matters, whether fans like it or not. For other schools, it doesn't matter to the administration....at ours...it does.
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Clearly the team is better than last year. We all realize this isn't much an achievement. The better question is whether MU is improving. To answer that question, it comes down to whether HE stays another year. If he does, then next year's team will continue the arc of progress over a 3-year period. If he leaves, then the team likely takes another significant step back and this season was another waste. Therefore, if HE leaves after this year, it will have stunted MU's team growth as his minutes could have gone to someone who will help be competitive in the 2016-17 season. In that case, it may have been better off without his signing.
I do think HE stays another year, and next year's team will be significantly better.
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I think the record may be a little better than last year, but a lot of that has to do with all the cupcakes they were able to beat before conference play started and Wisconsin having a down year too. Looking at the rest of the schedule, I don't see very many games that they are likely to win. Maybe at St. John's and at DePaul being the most likely.
I really don't see much progress being made from last year to this year either, as the team continually makes the same mistakes game after game - not getting in position to rebound, turning the ball over, continually taking 3 point shots that they hardly ever make, soft perimeter defense, missing the front end of many 1-and-1's, etc.
I'm not sure what staying out of the news for all the wrong reasons is supposed to imply, unless that refers to players not getting in to compromising situations and/or bar brawls. If that's the case, then they are at least staying out of trouble, which is good.
I will admit I was not wild about the Wojo hire. I actually posted here after the hiring that a friend of mine that is a Duke grad and I were joking about MU hiring Wojo a couple days before the hire and were floored that MU actually went ahead and hired him. I am not on the fire Wojo bandwagon at all, and I think you need to give a coach at least three years to see where the trajectory of the program is going (recruiting, player development, wins and loses, etc.), but I am alarmed that we could see back-to-back really bad Big East seasons where we finish at or near the bottom. Yes, we are playing a lot of freshmen, but so are a lot of other schools. If these freshman do not show improvement next year, then I think we need to seriously think about where the program is going.
Then again, I'm just an alum who has absolutely no say in the program other than inconsequential posts on a fan base message board. I will support MU and the team no matter the record. I just hope Wojo can turn the team around in the next year or so.
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Yes. Yes. And yes. I like the talent on this team. I love the great team chemistry between the players and coaches. I think the team makes mistakes and missed shots because they are a young team. The Big East is a tough conference. I expected t that our shooting will improve with maturity. Our young players, Sandy, Haniff, Anim, Henry and Tracy seemed to pass up good shots at times and then never find the grove. We have the makings of a very good team.
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Chicos
The truth is there is a continuum going from the complete "win at any cost" programs (like Huggins used to run at Cincy) and the "we never do anything wrong" programs like Northwestern. With the former as a 1 and the latter as a 10 I would say that MU under Buzz vacillated between a 4 and a 6. The fear that I have is that the administration may have set their sights on driving the program towards a 9.5. Hiring Wojo and giving him marching orders to become the "Duke of the North". My problem is that there is only one Duke and it is very difficult to draw the type of talent they have to chose from. To say that we won't take any chances with players so we are assured of "never being in the news for the wrong reasons" will likely lead MU on a trajectory like Northwestern. Its simply a fact of basketball that a disproportionate number of the most talented and toughest kids come from urban settings and their upbringing comes with baggage and potential risks. I'm not a win at any costs guy but also I'm not interested in supporting a team that mirrors Northwestern in their success or lack there of. So while its nice that the program currently passes the white glove test I'm a little concerned that we may have pushed the program too far. Give me a program that is a 6 and I'll live the fact that some percentage of kids are going to give you problems and you'll just have to deal with it. That's why ADs and Presidents get paid the big bucks.
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Chicos
The truth is there is a continuum going from the complete "win at any cost" programs (like Huggins used to run at Cincy) and the "we never do anything wrong" programs like Northwestern. With the former as a 1 and the latter as a 10 I would say that MU under Buzz vacillated between a 4 and a 6. The fear that I have is that the administration may have set their sights on driving the program towards a 9.5. Hiring Wojo and giving him marching orders to become the "Duke of the North". My problem is that there is only one Duke and it is very difficult to draw the type of talent they have to chose from. To say that we won't take any chances with players so we are assured of "never being in the news for the wrong reasons" will likely lead MU on a trajectory like Northwestern. Its simply a fact of basketball that a disproportionate number of the most talented and toughest kids come from urban settings and their upbringing comes with baggage and potential risks. I'm not a win at any costs guy but also I'm not interested in supporting a team that mirrors Northwestern in their success or lack there of. So while its nice that the program currently passes the white glove test I'm a little concerned that we may have pushed the program too far. Give me a program that is a 6 and I'll live the fact that some percentage of kids are going to give you problems and you'll just have to deal with it. That's why ADs and Presidents get paid the big bucks.
I have no such fear. I think MU wants to be the 7 to 8 range. Besides, we have landed very good recruits, it is not preventing us from landing quality young men. We are young, inexperienced, not mature physically. That comes with time. I have zero doubts with the money being spent that we don't want to be very competitive and that is why Wojo took the job. No fears whatsoever on that front. They do expect players not to be in the news for the wrong reasons, they do expect their coaching staff not to lie to their bosses....that should be a requirement whether we are a 1 or a 10 IMO.
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Chicos
The truth is there is a continuum going from the complete "win at any cost" programs (like Huggins used to run at Cincy) and the "we never do anything wrong" programs like Northwestern. With the former as a 1 and the latter as a 10 I would say that MU under Buzz vacillated between a 4 and a 6. The fear that I have is that the administration may have set their sights on driving the program towards a 9.5. Hiring Wojo and giving him marching orders to become the "Duke of the North". My problem is that there is only one Duke and it is very difficult to draw the type of talent they have to chose from. To say that we won't take any chances with players so we are assured of "never being in the news for the wrong reasons" will likely lead MU on a trajectory like Northwestern. Its simply a fact of basketball that a disproportionate number of the most talented and toughest kids come from urban settings and their upbringing comes with baggage and potential risks. I'm not a win at any costs guy but also I'm not interested in supporting a team that mirrors Northwestern in their success or lack there of. So while its nice that the program currently passes the white glove test I'm a little concerned that we may have pushed the program too far. Give me a program that is a 6 and I'll live the fact that some percentage of kids are going to give you problems and you'll just have to deal with it. That's why ADs and Presidents get paid the big bucks.
Very well said. Nobody at that 8 -10 or 1-3 level you speak of competes for National Championships. They play in the Patriot League or the SWAC. Everybody that plays big time football or basketball falls between 4 and 7. At a school like MU there's little margin for error. I'd rather be a 5.5 or a 6 winning Big East titles and going to the Elite 8 instead of a 7 at the bottom of the conference. I don't think that's "Just win, baby" - but if some ignorant self important alums want to call it that so be it.
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Are we better than last year? Yes
Is progress from last year to this year being made? Yes
Are we staying out of the news for all the wrong reasons? Yes
Packers keep everyone out of the news...respect levels around here:
1. Packers
2. Badgers
3. Brewers
4. Bucks
5. MU
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. UWM - I hope they win their conference tourney...I like their radio guy.
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Marginally better than last year, but not by a lot. Still a youthful team. Frosh are up and down, which is what many teams get from their frosh. We do not have a Sr. on the team, and Wojo's rotations are dubious. So this will be another struggle year. You start to wonder if we are even better than early Dec.
Carter seems to be struggling, and Cohen has taken a down turn. Fischer is up and down, as is Duane, who does not even start. HE keeps pumping up 3's when he has not proven to be capable. Lots and lots of work needs to be done.
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Asking if we're better than last year is beside the point. We were terrible then, so marginal improvement with a top 10 freshman class and our most heralded recruit in decades is meaningless.
The question should be:
1.Are we better than we were last month?
2.Are we better than we were two months ago?
3.Are we as good as Wojo thought we'd be?
I'd say no, no and no.
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Again, look at it through the eyes of an AD and a President. Meh may not mean much to the JUST WIN BABY crowd, I guarantee you it means a TON to those guys, to many donors, etc. It matters, whether fans like it or not. For other schools, it doesn't matter to the administration....at ours...it does.
I'm not 'just win, baby'. I viewed the issues under Buzz as episodic, not systemic. You viewed it the other way. Pilarz and Larry came in and made decisions based on the notion they were systemic. Does it matter at IU? I realize it may seem like I am being snarky, but I have always been puzzled why, with all of your animus toward what happened at MU under Buzz, you are still defending Crean with all of the off court issues at IU. I get that you genuinely liked Crean and genuinely disliked Buzz, but don't the off court issues at IU make you even slightly uncomfortable?
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don't the off court issues at IU make you even slightly uncomfortable?
(http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/11-tom-crean-funny-face.gif)
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Yes, Yes, and Yes...
I think, however, there is a 4th question... are we positioned for future success in the BEAST, and from my perspective the jury is still out on that.
- We need to see Wojo adjust recruiting from "duke style" players like Cheatham and Henry to add a few bruisers.
- We need shooters, and I think we're learning that Wisconsin High School shooters do not translate into Big East shooters
- We need an experienced offense oriented assistant coach who brings in a system that can work in the Big East.
I do see a new level of integrity in the program and as an alumni I'm pretty happy with that. I was a Brent supporter, but watching the whole Brent thing was like watching a hockey game... you're only there because you know at some point it's going to disintegrate into an all-out brawl.
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Looking at the rest of the schedule, I don't see very many games that they are likely to win. Maybe at St. John's and at DePaul being the most likely.
I really don't see much progress being made from last year to this year either
Point 1: Looking at the rest of the schedule after the IUPUI game, did you see them as likely to win 2 in Brooklyn and at Wisconsin? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Seton Hall game, did you see them as likely to win at Providence? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Providence win, did you see them as likely to lose at home to DePaul?
Can we just see what happens from here, please?
Point 2: Last year's team had no prayer of getting the kind of narrow victories over decent to very good teams that this year's team already has 4 of.
We do make a lot of mistakes. I mean, you'd think we had a bunch of freshmen or something.
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Point 1: Looking at the rest of the schedule after the IUPUI game, did you see them as likely to win 2 in Brooklyn and at Wisconsin? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Seton Hall game, did you see them as likely to win at Providence? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Providence win, did you see them as likely to lose at home to DePaul?
Can we just see what happens from here, please?
Point 2: Last year's team had no prayer of getting the kind of narrow victories over decent to very good teams that this year's team already has 4 of.
We do make a lot of mistakes. I mean, you'd think we had a bunch of freshmen or something.
Yeah, I thought they could win at least one in Brooklyn because the teams they played are only average teams. LSU, even with Ben Simmons, is not a good team - mediocre at best. ASU is also inconsistent. And I sure thought they could beat WI because they are a shell of what they were the last couple years.
I was pleasantly surprised that they beat Providence. I did not expect that at all. At the same time, I actually thought DePaul was going to give us trouble because the last several years they have given us fits and have beaten us several times. DePaul believes they can beat us and the play like it, with a little more energy than they do against other teams.
Look, the Big East has a lot of good teams. MU just does not match up with a lot of them, and it is going to be a struggle to win games the rest of the way. Unless we suddenly cut down on the same mistakes the players make most every game, suddenly find an outside shooting touch and suddenly start playing tough perimeter defense, its going to be a slog the rest of the way.
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I'm not 'just win, baby'. I viewed the issues under Buzz as episodic, not systemic. You viewed it the other way. Pilarz and Larry came in and made decisions based on the notion they were systemic. Does it matter at IU? I realize it may seem like I am being snarky, but I have always been puzzled why, with all of your animus toward what happened at MU under Buzz, you are still defending Crean with all of the off court issues at IU. I get that you genuinely liked Crean and genuinely disliked Buzz, but don't the off court issues at IU make you even slightly uncomfortable?
I rank sexual assault and rape much worse than college kids drinking, but yes I was uncomfortable. Glad those players are gone.
I'm not defending Crean, my animus at Buzz comes from other things I know. "You also don't get that I genuinely liked Crean".....I have NEVER said that and continuously said what a prick he was, so honestly if you have been paying attention ever I don't know how you could say that I said that. NEVER have said it. I can't count the number of times I said he is a prick to deal with, etc...way too many to count. Where I would "defend" him is when I would correct people saying complete falsehoods. I also would laugh at the number of times he has been "fired" here on this board because our fans are either stupid or just so emotionally vacant they couldn't process things properly.
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Very well said. Nobody at that 8 -10 or 1-3 level you speak of competes for National Championships. They play in the Patriot League or the SWAC. Everybody that plays big time football or basketball falls between 4 and 7. At a school like MU there's little margin for error. I'd rather be a 5.5 or a 6 winning Big East titles and going to the Elite 8 instead of a 7 at the bottom of the conference. I don't think that's "Just win, baby" - but if some ignorant self important alums want to call it that so be it.
Id put Kentucky, Louisville, and North Carolina in the 1 to 3 level and Duke in the 8 to 10....so every team not named Connecticut who has won a national championship in the last 7 years
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I rank sexual assault and rape much worse than college kids drinking, but yes I was uncomfortable. Glad those players are gone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O8kRTVkjEI
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Id agree with others who say that this team is better but not that much better than last years team. Think about that. Despite last years team being filled with seniors and experience, Wojo is getting more out of a team with zero seniors and five freshmen. That is exciting! Imagine what they could do next year or the year after. Hell, if this team makes the NIT, then Wojo did more than Buzz could with the like of Todd Mayo, Jamil Wilson, and Davnte Gardner.
Why people think a team this young wont improve is beyond me.
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Clearly the team is better than last year. We all realize this isn't much an achievement. The better question is whether MU is improving. To answer that question, it comes down to whether HE stays another year. If he does, then next year's team will continue the arc of progress over a 3-year period. If he leaves, then the team likely takes another significant step back and this season was another waste. Therefore, if HE leaves after this year, it will have stunted MU's team growth as his minutes could have gone to someone who will help be competitive in the 2016-17 season. In that case, it may have been better off without his signing.
I do think HE stays another year, and next year's team will be significantly better.
I think this team is top 25 if Henry returns.
I think this team is bubblicious if he doesnt.
I think this team is top 25 if he doesnt and we get a quality grad transfer PF.
Add Markus Howard to any of those and hot damn
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Experience is overrated. Henry is far and away out best player and I'd probably put Cheatham 2nd right now. The high school team my dad coaches starts 2 sophomores and a freshman and a senior who only played half a year of competetive basketball and I think they're something like 15-4.
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No, we are not better off. There was much higher expectations for this year. Last year we under achieved based on preseason expectations. However, our best player missed 4 games with a concussion.
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No, we are not better off. There was much higher expectations for this year. Last year we under achieved based on preseason expectations. However, our best player missed 4 games with a concussion.
We're gonna finish with a better record than last year. Despite last season having what? 4x the experience that this team does? That's pretty amazing when you think about it. Give em another year? Watch out!
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The question isn't are they better than last year, the question should be are they better than the last year of Buzz. The other question should be are they getting better in season
Last year doesn't count against anyone because the cupboard was bare and there was a coaching transition. This year is more talent but less experienced than the '13-'14 team, and so far I have to say we aren't better than that year. Finished 17-15, 9-9 against the 68th(226 non-con) toughest schedule that year and we are on track to finish this year 16-15, 5-13 against the 175th(325 non-con) toughest schedule.* That's not improvement.
We'll see what the rest of the season holds, but we aren't going to make the dance this year....the concern is do we have the pieces(coaching and players) to make it next season? If we go 4 years in a row without making the dance, I may have to officially check out for a bit to adjust my sanity.
*According to KenPom
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We're gonna finish with a better record than last year. Despite last season having what? 4x the experience that this team does? That's pretty amazing when you think about it. Give em another year? Watch out!
Which matters more talent or experience? You are correct about the experience gap, but the talent gap between last year and this year has to be close to 4x in favor of this year.
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Experience is overrated. Henry is far and away out best player and I'd probably put Cheatham 2nd right now. The high school team my dad coaches starts 2 sophomores and a freshman and a senior who only played half a year of competetive basketball and I think they're something like 15-4.
Your dad's high school team? Seriously?
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Which matters more talent or experience? You are correct about the experience gap, but the talent gap between last year and this year has to be close to 4x in favor of this year.
What matters is that this is year 1 for this class. I dont care how they are doing in this season. What Im excited about is what they will do next season and the season after and the season after that.
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Experience is overrated. Henry is far and away out best player and I'd probably put Cheatham 2nd right now. The high school team my dad coaches starts 2 sophomores and a freshman and a senior who only played half a year of competetive basketball and I think they're something like 15-4.
The team is still flawed next year even if they all comeback. Unless they learn to shot the ball, how can they be better. Is Duane Wilson better this year than last? I
would say this year he is worse. Is Sandy Cohen going to find his shot against Big East talent, maybe, maybe night. All of a sudden Luke and Henry going to find some
quick twitch muscle to rebound better, doubt it. Cheatham going to become a jump shooter? Lots of flawed players, maybe .500 if they all comeback in the Big East.
Now if Wojo can recruit a rebounder for next year then maybe, and Rowsey is better than most people think, then maybe
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Id agree with others who say that this team is better but not that much better than last years team. Think about that. Despite last years team being filled with seniors and experience, Wojo is getting more out of a team with zero seniors and five freshmen. That is exciting! Imagine what they could do next year or the year after. Hell, if this team makes the NIT, then Wojo did more than Buzz could with the like of Todd Mayo, Jamil Wilson, and Davnte Gardner.
Why people think a team this young wont improve is beyond me.
TAMU, please stop using logic and common sense.
We lost at home to DePaul, so this board is filled with anger and spite from commenters who were nowhere to be seen when we were beating Providence and Wisconsin.
These are people who seem to believe that freshmen and sophomores NEVER get better.
You might as well go to the Politics board and try to convince Heisy that every baby shouldn't receive a gun at birth.
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TAMU, please stop using logic and common sense.
We lost at home to DePaul, so this board is filled with anger and spite from commenters who were nowhere to be seen when we were beating Providence and Wisconsin.
These are people who seem to believe that freshmen and sophomores NEVER get better.
You might as well go to the Politics board and try to convince Heisy that every baby shouldn't receive a gun at birth.
Damn your practicality 82! I will reach them!
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Experience is overrated. Henry is far and away out best player and I'd probably put Cheatham 2nd right now. The high school team my dad coaches starts 2 sophomores and a freshman and a senior who only played half a year of competetive basketball and I think they're something like 15-4.
Playing in front of 500 people vs 10,000 in the college environment, being on TV, knowing NBA scouts are in the building, dealing with opponents and talents never faced before, hopping on airplanes to go to games, media interviews, college academics, etc.......I would say experience helps and very difficult for me to get my head around how the high school world comes close to making a comparable statement. I would guess in high school, experience is also important, but not nearly as much.
In college, where so many players are good because they are pretty much all on scholarship (not the case in high school where there are some really bad players out there game to game), that the different in talent at the college level is smaller. So experience, guile, etc, are an edge. Even how one carry's oneself off the court.
My two cents of course.
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Experience is overrated. Henry is far and away out best player and I'd probably put Cheatham 2nd right now. The high school team my dad coaches starts 2 sophomores and a freshman and a senior who only played half a year of competetive basketball and I think they're something like 15-4.
In that case, MU should hire your dad. After all, it's not like there's much of a difference between HS basketball and big-time college basketball :o
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I'm not defending Crean, my animus at Buzz comes from other things I know. "You also don't get that I genuinely liked Crean".....I have NEVER said that and continuously said what a prick he was, so honestly if you have been paying attention ever I don't know how you could say that I said that. NEVER have said it. I can't count the number of times I said he is a prick to deal with, etc...way too many to count. Where I would "defend" him is when I would correct people saying complete falsehoods. I also would laugh at the number of times he has been "fired" here on this board because our fans are either stupid or just so emotionally vacant they couldn't process things properly.
Admitting he's a prick to deal with would be like me admitting Buzz is eccentric. Big effing deal. Everyone already knows that. Crean's nickname among the students who worked in he athletic offices at MU was "Osama", for god's sakes (totally true). It's a flat out lie that you only defend him here to "correct people saying complete falsehoods". When someone would say he's a prick (which you now acknowledge as true) you would routinely defend him with some fawning remark about him being like a father to D Wade or a mentor to Steve Novak. You've spent 17 years and thousands of posts here on on multiple boards defending the guy. You are (by miles) his most vocal supporter in the entire universe. But you don't like him. Right.
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Admitting he's a prick to deal with would be like me admitting Buzz is eccentric. Big effing deal. Everyone already knows that. Crean's nickname among the students who worked in he athletic offices at MU was "Osama", for god's sakes (totally true). It's a flat out lie that you only defend him here to "correct people saying complete falsehoods". When someone would say he's a prick (which you now acknowledge as true) you would routinely defend him with some fawning remark about him being like a father to D Wade or a mentor to Steve Novak. You've spent 17 years and thousands of posts here on on multiple boards defending the guy. You are (by miles) his most vocal supporter in the entire universe. But you don't like him. Right.
Interesting, never heard that nickname in The Al.
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Id put Kentucky, Louisville, and North Carolina in the 1 to 3 level and Duke in the 8 to 10....so every team not named Connecticut who has won a national championship in the last 7 years
Duke takes kids to play basketball who would have trouble getting into Northern Illinois (let alone a Holy Cross or an Army) as a regular student. That's hardly an 8-10 in my book.
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Right now I don't see it. We keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Can't shoot, can't win the rebound war.
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Duke takes kids to play basketball who would have trouble getting into Northern Illinois (let alone a Holy Cross or an Army) as a regular student. That's hardly an 8-10 in my book.
Well so does marquette and every other school...so by that standard were all in that range. If that's the only transgression, I would put a school at a 9
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Crean's nickname among the students who worked in he athletic offices at MU was "Osama", for god's sakes (totally true).
Funny. I worked in the athletic offices as a freshmen during the crean era and never heard anything like that. We thought he was odd and made fun of the tan but we're generally ok with the guy. I was only there for the last year however. Maybe it was an earlier nickname
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I was around for the last two years of Crean and first year of Buzz. I know Buzz was seen as a welcome change by many but never once did I hear Crean called Osama.
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Funny. I worked in the athletic offices as a freshmen during the crean era and never heard anything like that. We thought he was odd and made fun of the tan but we're generally ok with the guy. I was only there for the last year however. Maybe it was an earlier nickname
My source is the Father of a kid who worked there. Not sure what year, but since he couldn't care less about Tom Crean I don't think he made it up.
What was your experience like working there in the Buzz era?
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My source is the Father of a kid who worked there. Not sure what year, but since he couldn't care less about Tom Crean I don't think he made it up.
What was your experience like working there in the Buzz era?
Well he never made me flush the toilet for him
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Well he never made me flush the toilet for him
And that was a full time job with all the phony cow chips he threw around!
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Whether the "program is better" is somewhat subjective, after you look at hard stats like wins and losses.
One item that's overlooked is .. the passion-ometer. It's way, way, way way down. Season ticket sales are down -2500 (-2800?) over the past two seasons, and I'll bet will fall another 1000 next season. Any business that's lost a third of their customers is in trouble. It's quite possible an entire 4-year class of students will have no recollection of MU ever dancing in March.
The New Big East, coupled with three losing seasons is a gut punch and wipes away years of building up the customer base. It's hard to see MU recovering for quite some time, if ever, with ticket costs increasing, and a new stadium adding to higher prices. Need multiple years of top 25 finishes and decent March runs.
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TAMU, please stop using logic and common sense.
We lost at home to DePaul, so this board is filled with anger and spite from commenters who were nowhere to be seen when we were beating Providence and Wisconsin.
These are people who seem to believe that freshmen and sophomores NEVER get better.
You might as well go to the Politics board and try to convince Heisy that every baby shouldn't receive a gun at birth.
Listen, I'm not one of the doom and gloomers and certainly not prone to overreact (I don't think). And while there is definitely unnecessary drama from infrequent posters, I don't think the concerns can be casually dismissed. We are back at a point where we need to legitimately question whether Wojo can coach. He can recruit and he can market a program, but can he develop players and coach them up?
Two areas that concern me. Seemingly both last year and this year the team regressed through conference season. Last year I attributed it to injury with a little bit of a talent gap. However this year, it seems the same thing is happening. Also, watching Wojo on the sidelines(in person) during the DePaul game he was doing a lot of running around and yelling in possession seemingly telling players what to do....I don't think you should have to be doing that in game if you can coach them up in practice. It wasn't like they were playing some exotic defense, it was straight up man to man.
I'm not advocating for him to be fired but he needs to be watched closely the rest of this year and next year. If we see these same issues next year we need to take a long hard look at our future. This season is lost from a tournament perspective, if next year is as well I think we have to make a change.
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I think this team is top 25 if Henry returns.
I think this team is bubblicious if he doesnt.
I think this team is top 25 if he doesnt and we get a quality grad transfer PF.
Add Markus Howard to any of those and hot damn
This team better learn to shoot if you think Top 25 is likely if HE returns.
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Whether the "program is better" is somewhat subjective, after you look at hard stats like wins and losses.
One item that's overlooked is .. the passion-ometer. It's way, way, way way down. Season ticket sales are down -2500 (-2800?) over the past two seasons, and I'll bet will fall another 1000 next season. Any business that's lost a third of their customers is in trouble. It's quite possible an entire 4-year class of students will have no recollection of MU ever dancing in March.
The New Big East, coupled with three losing seasons is a gut punch and wipes away years of building up the customer base. It's hard to see MU recovering for quite some time, if ever, with ticket costs increasing, and a new stadium adding to higher prices. Need multiple years of top 25 finishes and decent March runs.
This is very significant. Just the feels of the crowds at games is pretty terrible, I was legitimately happy against DePaul that one loud WE ARE MARQUETTE chant got going for about 60 seconds....that's just sad. The enthusiasm for the program is way down, and I don't think that's really Wojo's fault to this point, but he's got to build it back up and I don't see any way to do that without a winning product.
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Listen, I'm not one of the doom and gloomers and certainly not prone to overreact (I don't think). And while there is definitely unnecessary drama from infrequent posters, I don't think the concerns can be casually dismissed. We are back at a point where we need to legitimately question whether Wojo can coach. He can recruit and he can market a program, but can he develop players and coach them up?
Two areas that concern me. Seemingly both last year and this year the team regressed through conference season. Last year I attributed it to injury with a little bit of a talent gap. However this year, it seems the same thing is happening. Also, watching Wojo on the sidelines(in person) during the DePaul game he was doing a lot of running around and yelling in possession seemingly telling players what to do....I don't think you should have to be doing that in game if you can coach them up in practice. It wasn't like they were playing some exotic defense, it was straight up man to man.
I'm not advocating for him to be fired but he needs to be watched closely the rest of this year and next year. If we see these same issues next year we need to take a long hard look at our future. This season is lost from a tournament perspective, if next year is as well I think we have to make a change.
And I am with you. I am not saying Wojo is going to be great. I am saying his grade should be "Incomplete."
Same thing next year? Hot seat time.
After year four? Gone.
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This is very significant. Just the feels of the crowds at games is pretty terrible, I was legitimately happy against DePaul that one loud WE ARE MARQUETTE chant got going for about 60 seconds....that's just sad. The enthusiasm for the program is way down, and I don't think that's really Wojo's fault to this point, but he's got to build it back up and I don't see any way to do that without a winning product.
Passion is a trailing indicator. I remember going to a game in Crean's first year and it was dull, dull, dull...
Winning will bring back people and those people will make noise.
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And I am with you. I am not saying Wojo is going to be great. I am saying his grade should be "Incomplete."
Same thing next year? Hot seat time.
After year four? Gone.
My thoughts as well
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Listen, I'm not one of the doom and gloomers and certainly not prone to overreact (I don't think). And while there is definitely unnecessary drama from infrequent posters, I don't think the concerns can be casually dismissed. We are back at a point where we need to legitimately question whether Wojo can coach. He can recruit and he can market a program, but can he develop players and coach them up?
Two areas that concern me. Seemingly both last year and this year the team regressed through conference season. Last year I attributed it to injury with a little bit of a talent gap. However this year, it seems the same thing is happening. Also, watching Wojo on the sidelines(in person) during the DePaul game he was doing a lot of running around and yelling in possession seemingly telling players what to do....I don't think you should have to be doing that in game if you can coach them up in practice. It wasn't like they were playing some exotic defense, it was straight up man to man.
I'm not advocating for him to be fired but he needs to be watched closely the rest of this year and next year. If we see these same issues next year we need to take a long hard look at our future. This season is lost from a tournament perspective, if next year is as well I think we have to make a change.
The reason we "regress" in conference play is because competition goes up. Some areas of our game have gotten better but were playin tougher opponets. The only player Ive truly seen regress is Sandy. Dont know whats gotten him down the past month.
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The reason we "regress" in conference play is because competition goes up. Some areas of our game have gotten better but were playin tougher opponets. The only player Ive truly seen regress is Sandy. Dont know whats gotten him down the past month.
Disagree, I think within conference season we've regressed as well. Yes, freshmen are inconsistent, but if you can hang with Nova, X, Georgetown, and beat Providence you do not lose to DePaul. DePaul at home was easier than any of our wins this season and is easier than any of our losses. And it's not just that they lost to DePaul it's the way, defense was a mess(went zone way too late) and the offense was stagnant(much like against X). There was limited hustle and effort.
We'll see how the rest of the season goes.
Side note, I'm guessing we see like 500 people in the stands against Stetson.
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The reason we "regress" in conference play is because competition goes up. Some areas of our game have gotten better but were playin tougher opponets. The only player Ive truly seen regress is Sandy. Dont know whats gotten him down the past month.
His shooting mechanics are out of whack and he just doesn't look comfortable shooting the ball. It looks like he's thinking too much. Perhaps they've been trying to tweak his shot or perhaps he got the yips after firing up a couple baseline airballs. It could obviously be something else entirely, but something just hasn't been right with his shot since around Christmas.
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His shooting mechanics are out of whack and he just doesn't look comfortable shooting the ball. It looks like he's thinking too much. Perhaps they've been trying to tweak his shot or perhaps he got the yips after firing up a couple baseline airballs. It could obviously be something else entirely, but something just hasn't been right with his shot since around Christmas.
I think he has a slow shot. In BE play, he can't get it off as easy.
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Disagree, I think within conference season we've regressed as well. Yes, freshmen are inconsistent, but if you can hang with Nova, X, Georgetown, and beat Providence you do not lose to DePaul. DePaul at home was easier than any of our wins this season and is easier than any of our losses. And it's not just that they lost to DePaul it's the way, defense was a mess(went zone way too late) and the offense was stagnant(much like against X). There was limited hustle and effort.
I am not saying Wojo is going to be great. I am saying his grade should be "Incomplete."
Same thing next year? Hot seat time.
After year four? Gone.
Both of these are well said
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I think he has a slow shot. In BE play, he can't get it off as easy.
Yep. Also, if you watch closely, you can see he is between tempos right now. When guarded closely or there's a close-out coming, he's rushing it. When wide open, he's overly deliberate trying to slow down. No consistency right now.
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Well so does marquette and every other school...so by that standard were all in that range. If that's the only transgression, I would put a school at a 9
I don't agree with Lenny's comments on this. I'm sure it was hyperbole, but anyone can get into NIU. Duke, by and large, takes many kids that are academically above the average for most schools. Are there exceptions, yes. Let me put it this way, just about everyone that Duke takes for basketball would qualify for MU basketball academically, there are more than our fair share of kids on MU's teams over the years that would not make it to Duke because their standards are higher academically. And yes, before someone lists a handful of knuckleheads that went to Duke, etc....I get it. There are exceptions to every rule.
The bigger question is if there are enough fish in the pond to duplicate those efforts? In my opinion, no. Stanford, Duke, etc, grab most of those kids. To be clear, what Stanford does is MUCH more impressive than what Duke is doing by a long shot when it comes to athletics. There are kids on Duke that couldn't sniff Stanford. Johnny Dawkins learned that early when he went from Duke to Stanford.
In my view, MU can certainly occupy a space above the UCONN, Memphis, DePaul, South Florida and should. Does that mean we have to be at Notre Dame, Virginia? Stanford, Duke? Or is there a position slightly below them? In my view many of the programs in the Big East occupy that spot. Butler, Nova, Creighton, etc. They will take a chance on a few kids, some schools more than others, but also try and have some consistency to the norm of the student body. G'Town takes more risks in my view, DePaul, St John's as well. That may be wrong, but that is my perception.
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In my view, MU can certainly occupy a space above the UCONN, Memphis, DePaul, South Florida and should. Does that mean we have to be at Notre Dame, Virginia? Stanford, Duke? Or is there a position slightly below them? In my view many of the programs in the Big East occupy that spot. Butler, Nova, Creighton, etc. They will take a chance on a few kids, some schools more than others, but also try and have some consistency to the norm of the student body. G'Town takes more risks in my view, DePaul, St John's as well. That may be wrong, but that is my perception.
Why do you feel this is a rewarding goal for MU?
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Disagree, I think within conference season we've regressed as well. Yes, freshmen are inconsistent, but if you can hang with Nova, X, Georgetown, and beat Providence you do not lose to DePaul. DePaul at home was easier than any of our wins this season and is easier than any of our losses. And it's not just that they lost to DePaul it's the way, defense was a mess(went zone way too late) and the offense was stagnant(much like against X). There was limited hustle and effort.
We'll see how the rest of the season goes.
Side note, I'm guessing we see like 500 people in the stands against Stetson.
So one bad game is a sign of regression? Also I disagree wholeheartedly on the defense in that game. Depaul is a good offensive team and we made them look bad. Unfortunately, our offense and rebounding was so poor that we lost.
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So one bad game is a sign of regression? Also I disagree wholeheartedly on the defense in that game. Depaul is a good offensive team and we made them look bad. Unfortunately, our offense and rebounding was so poor that we lost.
I think there has been regression within games, DePaul was just the first game that we under performed from start to finish.
The offense was a mess most of X, some of Nova, a little bit of St John's. Offense was "fine" against Providence, Georgetown and Seton Hall.
Defense has been hit or miss through out conference season. Second half of DePaul it was atrocious especially when they went to the pick and roll
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Make fun of me all you want but the point remains the same. Experience is overrated, if you're good, you're gonna be good. Not saying it came help but one offseason isn't gonna remarkably improve this team. Need some more players.
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Make fun of me all you want but the point remains the same. Experience is overrated, if you're good, you're gonna be good. Not saying it came help but one offseason isn't gonna remarkably improve this team. Need some more players.
Chitown, I love you, but you couldnt be more wrong.
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I don't agree with Lenny's comments on this. I'm sure it was hyperbole, but anyone can get into NIU. Duke, by and large, takes many kids that are academically above the average for most schools. Are there exceptions, yes. Let me put it this way, just about everyone that Duke takes for basketball would qualify for MU basketball academically, there are more than our fair share of kids on MU's teams over the years that would not make it to Duke because their standards are higher academically. And yes, before someone lists a handful of knuckleheads that went to Duke, etc....I get it. There are exceptions to every rule.
The bigger question is if there are enough fish in the pond to duplicate those efforts? In my opinion, no. Stanford, Duke, etc, grab most of those kids. To be clear, what Stanford does is MUCH more impressive than what Duke is doing by a long shot when it comes to athletics. There are kids on Duke that couldn't sniff Stanford. Johnny Dawkins learned that early when he went from Duke to Stanford.
In my view, MU can certainly occupy a space above the UCONN, Memphis, DePaul, South Florida and should. Does that mean we have to be at Notre Dame, Virginia? Stanford, Duke? Or is there a position slightly below them? In my view many of the programs in the Big East occupy that spot. Butler, Nova, Creighton, etc. They will take a chance on a few kids, some schools more than others, but also try and have some consistency to the norm of the student body. G'Town takes more risks in my view, DePaul, St John's as well. That may be wrong, but that is my perception.
Much of this is, as you admit, nothing but your perception. No facts to back it up.
Notre Dame never officially de-emphasizes football. They just get rid of successful coaches (Holtz, Devine, some day Kelly, etc) who push for fast cornerbacks over national merit scholars and replace them with guys who look really good in a navy golf shirt and khakis (Bob Davie) or some unqualified God Squader high school guy (Jerry Faust). Because, you know, ND is different. They don't have to be like Ohio St or Michigan - they're better than that. Except it's BS, and after a few years of futility the realists there win the day and they're back to being (and competing with) Ohio St and Michigan.
That's where I see Marquette basketball. When we know who we are and have a dynamic coach it's seashells and balloons. Hell, we even made it to one final four without a dynamic coach because we knew who we were - a team led by a prop 48 superstar and a transfer from (ugh) Mississippi St.. We're not Duke. Never have been never will be. Want to be Creighton? Fine. I don't. If you force me to pick between being Creighton and UCONN I'll take UCONN any day. That's not "just win, baby" - it's common sense.
Marquette has a history of success as a basketball power. That success involves kids who are tough, mostly urban, mostly black and often from disadvantaged backgrounds. You (and I sense the BOT) prefer something a little more traditional. Be careful what you wish for...
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Make fun of me all you want but the point remains the same. Experience is overrated, if you're good, you're gonna be good. Not saying it came help but one offseason isn't gonna remarkably improve this team. Need some more players.
First year at MU:
Butler: 5.6 pts, 4 reb
Hayward: 6.6 pts, 3.6 reb
Matthews: 9.0 pts, 4 reb, 2 asts, shot under 40%
Buycks: 6.3 pts, 2 reb, 3 asts
Blue: 5.1 pts, 39% shooting
Clearly experience did nothing for those guys. I thought they were supposed to be good! It's a shame they never got any better.
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Marquette has a history of success as a basketball power. That success involves kids who are tough, mostly urban, mostly black and often from disadvantaged backgrounds. You (and I sense the board) prefer something a little more traditional. Be careful what you wish for...
Why cant we be that and still have players who dont get in trouble and take their academics seriously? Why is that a bad thing? I promise you, are academic standards are not that high. Grades dont matter as long as they can qualify and will take their classes seriously. If they do that and wont commit a crime while on campus then Wojo is free to take them and will take them. Whether they are from Rice Lake or Rufus King.
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Make fun of me all you want but the point remains the same. Experience is overrated, if you're good, you're gonna be good. Not saying it came help but one offseason isn't gonna remarkably improve this team. Need some more players.
That is absolutely not true. Merritt's brought up a bunch of MU guys, but look at Frank Kaminsky. He went from a freshman year where he scored 1.8 ppg, to a senior year where he scored 18.8 ppg and was national player of the year.
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Chitown, I love you, but you couldnt be more wrong.
You just don't know Illinois HS basketball, amigo.
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Whether the "program is better" is somewhat subjective, after you look at hard stats like wins and losses.
One item that's overlooked is .. the passion-ometer. It's way, way, way way down. Season ticket sales are down -2500 (-2800?) over the past two seasons, and I'll bet will fall another 1000 next season. Any business that's lost a third of their customers is in trouble. It's quite possible an entire 4-year class of students will have no recollection of MU ever dancing in March.
The New Big East, coupled with three losing seasons is a gut punch and wipes away years of building up the customer base. It's hard to see MU recovering for quite some time, if ever, with ticket costs increasing, and a new stadium adding to higher prices. Need multiple years of top 25 finishes and decent March runs.
Despite being an infrequent naying nellie THIS THIS THIS is why I post. This is also why we need the "Just win baby" mentality. Because how many years do we sustain the 10 million expense bill with these falling ticket numbers? We are already one of the least profitable of the big-spending programs. Yes the Fox money helps, but it's a double edged sword - we get it either way. If we lose half the fan base at what point does the admin say "f*ck it" and just free-ride on the BE TV contract and NCAA money from the perennial tourney goers? I think there is a real real danger of a downward spiral here - we lose games, we lose fans, MU starts pulling back on the money into the program, so we lose more games (can't recruit as well), lose more fans, spend less money, etc. etc. etc. What break my heart is that after really almost 20 years of oblivion in the post-AL era (yes mid 90's ok) we finally had rebuilt something over a DECADE (because that's how long it takes) but now we're running a real danger of plunging back into another 20 years of "meh" - were we're excited to make the tourney once every four years. Just five years ago we were on the cusp of being a blue-blood. Think we're still there now?
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Despite being an infrequent naying nellie THIS THIS THIS is why I post. This is also why we need the "Just win baby" mentality. Because how many years do we sustain the 10 million expense bill with these falling ticket numbers? We are already one of the least profitable of the big-spending programs. Yes the Fox money helps, but it's a double edged sword - we get it either way. If we lose half the fan base at what point does the admin say "f*ck it" and just free-ride on the BE TV contract and NCAA money from the perennial tourney goers? I think there is a real real danger of a downward spiral here - we lose games, we lose fans, MU starts pulling back on the money into the program, so we lose more games (can't recruit as well), lose more fans, spend less money, etc. etc. etc. What break my heart is that after really almost 20 years of oblivion in the post-AL era (yes mid 90's ok) we finally had rebuilt something over a DECADE (because that's how long it takes) but now we're running a real danger of plunging back into another 20 years of "meh" - were we're excited to make the tourney once every four years. Just five years ago we were on the cusp of being a blue-blood. Think we're still there now?
I think you are exaggerating a few things here. First, it did not take a decade to build back the program. We went five years between the firing of Dukiet and getting back to the Sweet 16.
Second, we were not on the cusp of being a blue-blood. We went on a nice run Programs do that. My guess is that we will be back to the S16 within the next few years.
I think people need to stop being so chicken-little-ish here. Spending money doesn't guaranty anything. Spending money just makes the downside shorter and less severe.
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I think you are exaggerating a few things here. First, it did not take a decade to build back the program. We went five years between the firing of Dukiet and getting back to the Sweet 16.
Second, we were not on the cusp of being a blue-blood. We went on a nice run Programs do that. My guess is that we will be back to the S16 within the next few years.
I think people need to stop being so chicken-little-ish here. Spending money doesn't guaranty anything. Spending money just makes the downside shorter and less severe.
Yes, a bit of hyperbole - what are message boards for? But if anything that builds my point - from 1993-2013 we were a force - 18 post-season appearances in 20 years, and a stretch of 8 straight NCAA. Maybe not tier-one blue-blood, and not quite Al-Raymonds-esque but that kind of consistency gets close to the big boys - e.g. on the cusp (esp since we were bringing the money to the table to sustain the success).
I guess I'm just still stung over "losing" Shaka - he was the caliber coach we should have been able to land. You think he'd be missing the post-season two years in a row? (I mean we need 5 more wins for a reasonable shot at the NIT - looking tougher) We didn't get him, I get it, and it's not fair to judge Wojo to the same standard. So maybe I've been unfair here - Wojo isn't necessarily falling short of expectation - MU fell short of expectations in making their post-Buzz hire. And I get it - even the UCLAs and IUs of the world have down stretches - but when you get excited all year for the prospect of the upcoming season it's disheartening when you're "playing for pride" in 3 consecutive febs. (And who knows - maybe I'm chicken littleling and they'll run off 9 straights and ride the momentum all the way to the final four. Again, very very happy to eat crow pie if that happens).
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I'm not disputing that this season has been disappointing. I am disputing that this is the beginning of the end of Marquette basketball. (Not saying you said that.) Marquette has been through slumps before. It will go through them again.
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I'm not disputing that this season has been disappointing. I am disputing that this is the beginning of the end of Marquette basketball. (Not saying you said that.) Marquette has been through slumps before. It will go through them again.
Right - I'm just saying that 1) it would have been nice not to have gone into a slump (maybe unavoidable but still unfortunate) and 2) sometimes it's harder to get out of a slump than into one - success often breeds success, and, well, less-than success also breeds the same. We all want HE to stay and if he does I feel real good about the trajectory - but I think it's a fools dream to think we'll have better results than this season next year without him.
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I'd make a case that this time is different.
Ticket costs (and required donations) are double what they used to be. ALL games are televised in splendid High Def. It'll take many years to work out the bad taste of losing the OBig East, not having a delicious stream of a-list teams at the BC, being on the mighty ESPN and now .. the Ocho, FS1.
I wouldn't say "this is the end" .. no. But I don't have the vision we'll ever get back to the heights of ~2004-2012. Not saying never, but ..
Frankly, long-term success in MBB is just really hard. Takes some luck and special sauce to reach where we did and I think that's hard to come by.
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I'd make a case that this time is different.
Ticket costs (and required donations) are double what they used to be. ALL games are televised in splendid High Def. It'll take many years to work out the bad taste of losing the OBig East, not having a delicious stream of a-list teams at the BC, being on the mighty ESPN and now .. the Ocho, FS1.
I wouldn't say "this is the end" .. no. But I don't have the vision we'll ever get back to the heights of ~2004-2012. Not saying never, but ..
Frankly, long-term success in MBB is just really hard. Takes some luck and special sauce to reach where we did and I think that's hard to come by.
Good points but why can't I read this without hearing a sad trombone playing in the background
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I'd make a case that this time is different.
Ticket costs (and required donations) are double what they used to be. ALL games are televised in splendid High Def. It'll take many years to work out the bad taste of losing the OBig East, not having a delicious stream of a-list teams at the BC, being on the mighty ESPN and now .. the Ocho, FS1.
I wouldn't say "this is the end" .. no. But I don't have the vision we'll ever get back to the heights of ~2004-2012. Not saying never, but ..
Frankly, long-term success in MBB is just really hard. Takes some luck and special sauce to reach where we did and I think that's hard to come by.
You make good points. And now I'm sad
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I'd make a case that this time is different.
Ticket costs (and required donations) are double what they used to be. ALL games are televised in splendid High Def. It'll take many years to work out the bad taste of losing the OBig East, not having a delicious stream of a-list teams at the BC, being on the mighty ESPN and now .. the Ocho, FS1.
I wouldn't say "this is the end" .. no. But I don't have the vision we'll ever get back to the heights of ~2004-2012. Not saying never, but ..
Frankly, long-term success in MBB is just really hard. Takes some luck and special sauce to reach where we did and I think that's hard to come by.
This is what Buzz saw too. A large part of the reason he left.
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I'd make a case that this time is different.
Ticket costs (and required donations) are double what they used to be. ALL games are televised in splendid High Def. It'll take many years to work out the bad taste of losing the OBig East, not having a delicious stream of a-list teams at the BC, being on the mighty ESPN and now .. the Ocho, FS1.
I wouldn't say "this is the end" .. no. But I don't have the vision we'll ever get back to the heights of ~2004-2012. Not saying never, but ..
Frankly, long-term success in MBB is just really hard. Takes some luck and special sauce to reach where we did and I think that's hard to come by.
Fair points. Here's my counter:
In 2-1/2 years, the new arena will open. Ticket sales will go back up, at least temporarily, from fans curious to see the new venue both in terms of STHs and casual walk-up fans.
In general, we will be a lower cost alternative to basketball fans that want to watch games in a state-of-the-art NBA facility without paying NBA prices.
If we are winning, the fans will stay. If a team that features seniors Cheatham, Heldt, Carter, and Anim, along with the Hauser brothers, Markus Howard, and Brendan Bailey can be a top-25 staple and earn a high seed while winning at home, the new interest gained from the arena could easily translate to a new generation of long term STHs.
I understand the negatives going on now, but the arena will open at a perfect time to give us the chance to turn it around, if Wojo and the staff can answer the bell by then.
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This is what Buzz saw too. A large part of the reason he left.
So he went to a program that averaged 5700 in attendance a game?
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So he went to a program that averaged 5700 in attendance a game?
I think he meant going to P5 conference (ACC) & working with his buddy in the Athletic department who will let Buzz do whatever he wants.
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Why do you feel this is a rewarding goal for MU?
In my opinion, if one is to use the basketball program to help market the university and the quality of the school, we should aspire to put the product in as best a light as possible. MU is a private school, costs a considerable amount of money to attend and there is a perceived value for that money spent.
Now, not everyone agrees with this. UConn is a good school, G'Town is a good school, both basketball programs have taken their share of guys that quite frankly didn't belong academically in the parking lot of the school. Different strokes for different folks. I admire what Stanford does, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame, etc. Yup, exceptions at all of those schools, but by and large I believe it helps in the overall reputation of the school, it also helps the kids that are playing for those schools because they come out with folks knowing these kids are not only quality athletes, but are prepared intellectually. They weren't there just to play a game. In the end, that's a huge benefit to those kids for many reasons.
My two cents, many will disagree.
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Despite being an infrequent naying nellie THIS THIS THIS is why I post. This is also why we need the "Just win baby" mentality. Because how many years do we sustain the 10 million expense bill with these falling ticket numbers? We are already one of the least profitable of the big-spending programs. Yes the Fox money helps, but it's a double edged sword - we get it either way. If we lose half the fan base at what point does the admin say "f*ck it" and just free-ride on the BE TV contract and NCAA money from the perennial tourney goers? I think there is a real real danger of a downward spiral here - we lose games, we lose fans, MU starts pulling back on the money into the program, so we lose more games (can't recruit as well), lose more fans, spend less money, etc. etc. etc. What break my heart is that after really almost 20 years of oblivion in the post-AL era (yes mid 90's ok) we finally had rebuilt something over a DECADE (because that's how long it takes) but now we're running a real danger of plunging back into another 20 years of "meh" - were we're excited to make the tourney once every four years. Just five years ago we were on the cusp of being a blue-blood. Think we're still there now?
Did you see what happened with attendance with the JUST WIN BABY mentality? It was dropping. Secondly, we are a university. I don't mean to be curt here, but the folks running this university have a job to run it as a university, not a minor league sport. If you want the just win baby approach, MU may not be the school for you to cheer on in the future because that mentality is not going to be embraced. Instead, we will spend considerable resources to win, be competitive, strive to win conference titles, represent well nationally, but it will not be to the point of risking MU's reputation, etc that often comes with the JUST WIN BABY attitude.
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Yes, a bit of hyperbole - what are message boards for? But if anything that builds my point - from 1993-2013 we were a force - 18 post-season appearances in 20 years, and a stretch of 8 straight NCAA. Maybe not tier-one blue-blood, and not quite Al-Raymonds-esque but that kind of consistency gets close to the big boys - e.g. on the cusp (esp since we were bringing the money to the table to sustain the success).
I guess I'm just still stung over "losing" Shaka - he was the caliber coach we should have been able to land. You think he'd be missing the post-season two years in a row? (I mean we need 5 more wins for a reasonable shot at the NIT - looking tougher) We didn't get him, I get it, and it's not fair to judge Wojo to the same standard. So maybe I've been unfair here - Wojo isn't necessarily falling short of expectation - MU fell short of expectations in making their post-Buzz hire. And I get it - even the UCLAs and IUs of the world have down stretches - but when you get excited all year for the prospect of the upcoming season it's disheartening when you're "playing for pride" in 3 consecutive febs. (And who knows - maybe I'm chicken littleling and they'll run off 9 straights and ride the momentum all the way to the final four. Again, very very happy to eat crow pie if that happens).
We haven't been able to land a Shaka type coach....EVER. Look at our hires. Assistant coaches, or guys from small schools like Belmont Abbey. Look, I absolutely wanted MU to land a guy like him...and MU tried...but MU never seems to get those types of coaches. So, we get young, hungry coaches who learn on the job. It has most often worked out well.
End of the day, we're better than last year, trending the right direction, we continue to sign good recruits, so let's see what happens. We clearly need better PG play, better shooters in general. It will come. If it doesn't, than he won't be here and someone else will.
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In my opinion, if one is to use the basketball program to help market the university and the quality of the school, we should aspire to put the product in as best a light as possible. MU is a private school, costs a considerable amount of money to attend and there is a perceived value for that money spent.
Now, not everyone agrees with this. UConn is a good school, G'Town is a good school, both basketball programs have taken their share of guys that quite frankly didn't belong academically in the parking lot of the school. Different strokes for different folks. I admire what Stanford does, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame, etc. Yup, exceptions at all of those schools, but by and large I believe it helps in the overall reputation of the school, it also helps the kids that are playing for those schools because they come out with folks knowing these kids are not only quality athletes, but are prepared intellectually. They weren't there just to play a game. In the end, that's a huge benefit to those kids for many reasons.
My two cents, many will disagree.
thanks
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Some perspective. Sitting in equivalent seats to watch Maurice Lucas play at the old Mecca cost $4.50 and the program cost 0.35. The year before they were $4 and .25. You also had your seats for life, with none of this reseating hassle. Now I pay a $700 per seat donation and the ticket price is $30.10. No need to buy a program, because you can see the statistics on the score board. My tuition, living at home, was $2,000 a semester. Very few, if any, home games were on TV. I am thinking about dropping my tickets. I can save a lot of money, especially when you add in the cost of driving from Sheboygan and that I have been donating another $3,000 plus a year to keep me near the 93rd percentile. My fear is that they stop putting the home games on TV after I drop my tickets. I had previously decided I would keep my tickets until the first season in the new arena. Now, the team is so bad that I may not bother to wait for the new arena.
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Some perspective. Sitting in equivalent seats to watch Maurice Lucas play at the old Mecca cost $4.50 and the program cost 0.35. The year before they were $4 and .25. You also had your seats for life, with none of this reseating hassle. Now I pay a $700 per seat donation and the ticket price is $30.10. No need to buy a program, because you can see the statistics on the score board. My tuition, living at home, was $2,000 a semester. Very few, if any, home games were on TV. I am thinking about dropping my tickets. I can save a lot of money, especially when you add in the cost of driving from Sheboygan and that I have been donating another $3,000 plus a year to keep me near the 93rd percentile. My fear is that they stop putting the home games on TV after I drop my tickets. I had previously decided I would keep my tickets until the first season in the new arena. Now, the team is so bad that I may not bother to wait for the new arena.
Yup, but in 1974 the average income in this country was $9,668. A House cost $47,432. Stuff cost a lot less back then, but you also made a lot less on average back then, too.
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Most of the commentary is really laughable. Come on. We are talking about Marquette basketball. Something we all love. We have a very talented young team and coaching staff. Patience everyone. They will be fine. Give them time. The Big East is brutal. We will be okay.
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Some perspective. Sitting in equivalent seats to watch Maurice Lucas play at the old Mecca cost $4.50 and the program cost 0.35. The year before they were $4 and .25. You also had your seats for life, with none of this reseating hassle. Now I pay a $700 per seat donation and the ticket price is $30.10. No need to buy a program, because you can see the statistics on the score board. My tuition, living at home, was $2,000 a semester. Very few, if any, home games were on TV. I am thinking about dropping my tickets. I can save a lot of money, especially when you add in the cost of driving from Sheboygan and that I have been donating another $3,000 plus a year to keep me near the 93rd percentile. My fear is that they stop putting the home games on TV after I drop my tickets. I had previously decided I would keep my tickets until the first season in the new arena. Now, the team is so bad that I may not bother to wait for the new arena.
They're not going to stop putting home games on television. Pretty much every game in every major sport is televised these days sell out or not.
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We haven't been able to land a Shaka type coach....EVER. Look, I absolutely wanted MU to land a guy like him...and MU tried...but MU never seems to get those types of coaches.
Maybe Shaka is squirmy.
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I think he meant going to P5 conference (ACC) & working with his buddy in the Athletic department who will let Buzz do whatever he wants.
That it isn't what Hilltopper posted about, he was referencing the interest MU basketball.
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Fair points. Here's my counter:
In 2-1/2 years, the new arena will open. Ticket sales will go back up, at least temporarily, from fans curious to see the new venue both in terms of STHs and casual walk-up fans.
In general, we will be a lower cost alternative to basketball fans that want to watch games in a state-of-the-art NBA facility without paying NBA prices.
If we are winning, the fans will stay. ..
It's tough to tell what'll happen with the new arena.
Suffice it to say .. STHs will go down again next year, barring a miracle finish.
On the one hand .. by 2017, so many STHs will have thrown in the towel only the super die-hards will be left. But if ticket prices go up substantially .. I could see some thinking that's the time to make a clean break too. Honestly, hard to predict that future. Probably a flat year.
I think it's a good bet that walk-up sales will be higher, though. There's a large pool of fans (or former STHs) who will be interested in hitting a few extra games at the new stadium. The new stadium will have more lower bowl seats, making them far less scarce than today .. leading the secondary market to be awash in high quality seats.
I'd love to know more about the stats from the ticket office on .. the avg. age of a new STH .. and the avg. longevity of a dropper. I'd guess most new STHs are young alums who yearn for that great experience .. but that pool is much, much smaller today than 5 years ago. Gonna take years of success to rebuild those numbers.
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This may have been posted in this thread already, but the fact that this is even a question (Are we better than last year?), when we are starting 3 freshman, including our PG is really a tribute to the fact that we are on the right track.
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This may have been posted in this thread already, but the fact that this is even a question (Are we better than last year?), when we are starting 3 freshman, including our PG is really a tribute to the fact that we are on the right track.
Context:
1 of the freshman is a McDonald's All American and continues to be a consensus lottery pick - and certainly is better than Juan Anderson.
Our freshman PG is already better than our PG of the last two seasons.
Cheatham looks like a good prospect.
If we finish with fewer than 6 Big East wins, this season will have been a train wreck comparative to the talent on the roster. Wojo has been all over the place with his substitutions of late. Anyone else beyond baffled as to why Traci Carter only played 13 minutes against DePaul as we floundered to a 56 point finish?
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Context:
1 of the freshman is a McDonald's All American and continues to be a consensus lottery pick - and certainly is better than Juan Anderson.
Our freshman PG is already better than our PG of the last two seasons.
Cheatham looks like a good prospect.
If we finish with fewer than 6 Big East wins, this season will have been a train wreck comparative to the talent on the roster. Wojo has been all over the place with his substitutions of late. Anyone else beyond baffled as to why Traci Carter only played 13 minutes against DePaul as we floundered to a 56 point finish?
1. I'm not sure how you can compare Henry to Juan honestly.
2. Disagree.
3. "good prospect" for what?
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In my opinion, if one is to use the basketball program to help market the university and the quality of the school, we should aspire to put the product in as best a light as possible. MU is a private school, costs a considerable amount of money to attend and there is a perceived value for that money spent.
Now, not everyone agrees with this. UConn is a good school, G'Town is a good school, both basketball programs have taken their share of guys that quite frankly didn't belong academically in the parking lot of the school. Different strokes for different folks. I admire what Stanford does, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame, etc. Yup, exceptions at all of those schools, but by and large I believe it helps in the overall reputation of the school, it also helps the kids that are playing for those schools because they come out with folks knowing these kids are not only quality athletes, but are prepared intellectually. They weren't there just to play a game. In the end, that's a huge benefit to those kids for many reasons.
My two cents, many will disagree.
Don't worry MU will continue to Facebook, tweet & Instagram Jae, Jimmy, DJO & Vander everyday tho.
Because you know. The era was squirmy but the results were great.
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In my opinion, if one is to use the basketball program to help market the university and the quality of the school, we should aspire to put the product in as best a light as possible. MU is a private school, costs a considerable amount of money to attend and there is a perceived value for that money spent.
Now, not everyone agrees with this. UConn is a good school, G'Town is a good school, both basketball programs have taken their share of guys that quite frankly didn't belong academically in the parking lot of the school. Different strokes for different folks. I admire what Stanford does, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame, etc. Yup, exceptions at all of those schools, but by and large I believe it helps in the overall reputation of the school, it also helps the kids that are playing for those schools because they come out with folks knowing these kids are not only quality athletes, but are prepared intellectually. They weren't there just to play a game. In the end, that's a huge benefit to those kids for many reasons.
My two cents, many will disagree.
I agree 100%, the new Big East will be somewhat like the Ivys, Ivy lite, but not DUKE strong.
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Don't worry MU will continue to Facebook, tweet & Instagram Jae, Jimmy, DJO & Vander everyday tho.
Because you know. The era was squirmy but the results were great.
Yup. We're no longer at the JUST WIN BABY stage where we take Prop 48 cases that high majors can't, but I'm glad we've taken on guys who took the JUCO route who busted their asses to get here. Hard work is an admirable thing.
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Yup. We're no longer at the JUST WIN BABY stage where we take Prop 48 cases that high majors can't, but I'm glad we've taken on guys who took the JUCO route who busted their asses to get here. Hard work is an admirable thing.
Thank goodness we won't take on any more high-risk guys like Wade. That turned out to be a disaster for us.
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Thank goodness we won't take on any more high-risk guys like Wade. That turned out to be a disaster for us.
Same with Crowder.
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This may have been posted in this thread already, but the fact that this is even a question (Are we better than last year?), when we are starting 3 freshman, including our PG is really a tribute to the fact that we are on the right track.
If you look at DePaul. It did not matter year after year if they were more experienced or not. What does matter is whether a coach can assemble a team that can win. DePaul has had some good players during their mediocrity, so it is not totally a talent thing.
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Fair points. Here's my counter:
In 2-1/2 years, the new arena will open. Ticket sales will go back up, at least temporarily, from fans curious to see the new venue both in terms of STHs and casual walk-up fans.
In general, we will be a lower cost alternative to basketball fans that want to watch games in a state-of-the-art NBA facility without paying NBA prices.
If we are winning, the fans will stay. If a team that features seniors Cheatham, Heldt, Carter, and Anim, along with the Hauser brothers, Markus Howard, and Brendan Bailey can be a top-25 staple and earn a high seed while winning at home, the new interest gained from the arena could easily translate to a new generation of long term STHs.
I understand the negatives going on now, but the arena will open at a perfect time to give us the chance to turn it around, if Wojo and the staff can answer the bell by then.
The place where we play is not what matters. Please, we played for years in the crappy Milwaukee Arena. What matters is the product on the floor. We win and the fans will show up. We could be playing in the old gym and it would be packed if we were winning. The window dressing of a new building is nice, don't get me wrong. But, if the current team was playing in the new arena we would be having the same frustrating threads about performance and attendance.
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Don't worry MU will continue to Facebook, tweet & Instagram Jae, Jimmy, DJO & Vander everyday tho.
Because you know. The era was squirmy but the results were great.
A bit hyperbolic on the every day stuff.
I would be surprised if the school did much ever on Vander or DJO...a post here or there, maybe.
Jimmy, they should. Wade, they should. They would be fools not to. Jimmy was a full qualifier, people keep forgetting this.
Again, I don't think anyone is saying we can't take Jucos or take exceptions to the rules, it is when the team is loaded in that regard it causes imbalance and we had a few issues with some folks, you would know exactly who they are (several were not Jucos but no way in hell Buzz should have recruited them and how they were recruited leaves a lot to be desired).
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Yup. We're no longer at the JUST WIN BABY stage where we take Prop 48 cases that high majors can't, but I'm glad we've taken on guys who took the JUCO route who busted their asses to get here. Hard work is an admirable thing.
Hard work is an admirable thing, it's also not exclusive to JUCO kids. Just as not all JUCO kids bust their butts either.
We will continue to recruit JUCOs, there will be transfers into the program, and on occasion there will be guys that we take a flyer on academically. It just won't be 40% to 50% of the roster anymore. Nor does it have to be to be successful.
Some of you make it out like a zero sum game, it isn't.
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A bit hyperbolic on the every day stuff.
I would be surprised if the school did much ever on Vander or DJO...a post here or there, maybe.
Jimmy, they should. Wade, they should. They would be fools not to. Jimmy was a full qualifier, people keep forgetting this.
Again, I don't think anyone is saying we can't take Jucos or take exceptions to the rules, it is when the team is loaded in that regard it causes imbalance and we had a few issues with some folks, you would know exactly who they are (several were not Jucos but no way in hell Buzz should have recruited them and how they were recruited leaves a lot to be desired).
Vander got his own tweet just this week for averaging 25+ ppg in the NBDL.
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I heard UNC called Wojo and asked him to stop wearing the baby blues.
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I'll give a bit of an anecdote that we relayed to me from someone I respect greatly at MU and the thinking going on.
MU isn't stuck in the 1960's, 70's, 80's anymore where it was a private school, but not nearly as costly as other private schools. The school was letting in many kids, it was sort of a safety private school. Things have changed, for the better academically. As a result, better professors, more invested dollars into the school, and a lot more expensive to attend.
The long term plan is to continue this, but to do this you need kids graduating from MU that are going to give back to MU. High income producing kids, with good jobs, good salaries, etc. We're playing (pun intended) in a different academic world now and justifying that expense is a difficult chore for the university. Everything the school is doing goes toward that image, that ROI calculation, that belief system and selling system about what it means to attend, graduate and be an alumnus of MU for years to come. Everything. That includes sports teams.
I am confident in what I've been told that we will compete at a HIGH level, that we will win, we will represent the school and these goals well. You can read between the lines if you wish on how we get there, but I know how it has been described to me. There is a plan in place, that plan does not exclude going after certain kids as much as people want to make that joke here, but there is a MASSIVE expectation that our teams (not just hoops) will behave appropriately and understand who is joining the programs better be vetted to the tee.
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I'll give a bit of an anecdote that we relayed to me from someone I respect greatly at MU and the thinking going on.
MU isn't stuck in the 1960's, 70's, 80's anymore where it was a private school, but not nearly as costly as other private schools. The school was letting in many kids, it was sort of a safety private school. Things have changed, for the better academically. As a result, better professors, more invested dollars into the school, and a lot more expensive to attend.
The long term plan is to continue this, but to do this you need kids graduating from MU that are going to give back to MU. High income producing kids, with good jobs, good salaries, etc. We're playing (pun intended) in a different academic world now and justifying that expense is a difficult chore for the university. Everything the school is doing goes toward that image, that ROI calculation, that belief system and selling system about what it means to attend, graduate and be an alumnus of MU for years to come. Everything. That includes sports teams.
I am confident in what I've been told that we will compete at a HIGH level, that we will win, we will represent the school and these goals well. You can read between the lines if you wish on how we get there, but I know how it has been described to me. There is a plan in place, that plan does not exclude going after certain kids as much as people want to make that joke here, but there is a MASSIVE expectation that our teams (not just hoops) will behave appropriately and understand who is joining the programs better be vetted to the tee.
That's fine that the administration has shifted to that goal, but I know I probably would not have attend the school today because of the rise in tuition. It only cost me a couple thousand more to go to MU than it would have cost for me to go to my state school when I attended- but now MU's tuition is way more than the state school and almost cost prohibitive.
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That's fine that the administration has shifted to that goal, but I know I probably would not have attend the school today because of the rise in tuition. It only cost me a couple thousand more to go to MU than it would have cost for me to go to my state school when I attended- but now MU's tuition is way more than the state school and almost cost prohibitive.
That's the point he was making to me. To justify the cost, they need to make sure they are attracting top flight students that can afford it and will continue to give after they leave. This is the approach USC has taken and is now considered a top 25 academic school when for years that was just not the case. A few other examples out there as well.
I'm sure that will rub some folks the wrong way here. However, I'd also note that with financial aid packages, MU also does their level headed best to make sure tuition is approachable for many folks when considering state schools, so that has to be factored in also.
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I get it. We no longer want the 2.7 kid from Beverly, son of a cop.
We're gonna convince 3.7 kids we're this Ivy oasis in MKE, well fine. It's sort of a joke, but fine.
Yet explain to me why can't we find room for 12 1.7s and win some games.
Hoops players rarely match the student body in GPA. Who cares if they're 50% qualified of the student or 80% the student. If you're not 100% WHO CARES. Stop pretending and start winning.
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The place where we play is not what matters. Please, we played for years in the crappy Milwaukee Arena. What matters is the product on the floor. We win and the fans will show up. We could be playing in the old gym and it would be packed if we were winning. The window dressing of a new building is nice, don't get me wrong. But, if the current team was playing in the new arena we would be having the same frustrating threads about performance and attendance.
Performance, yes, attendance, not for the first two years. New arenas sell tickets the first couple years win or lose. Couple the new arena with winning and we'll regain and sustain ticket sales. But I do think if we weren't moving to a new venue, there are STHs that have been lost that wouldn't come back to the BC.
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I'll give a bit of an anecdote that we relayed to me from someone I respect greatly at MU and the thinking going on.
MU isn't stuck in the 1960's, 70's, 80's anymore where it was a private school, but not nearly as costly as other private schools. The school was letting in many kids, it was sort of a safety private school. Things have changed, for the better academically. As a result, better professors, more invested dollars into the school, and a lot more expensive to attend.
The long term plan is to continue this, but to do this you need kids graduating from MU that are going to give back to MU. High income producing kids, with good jobs, good salaries, etc. We're playing (pun intended) in a different academic world now and justifying that expense is a difficult chore for the university. Everything the school is doing goes toward that image, that ROI calculation, that belief system and selling system about what it means to attend, graduate and be an alumnus of MU for years to come. Everything. That includes sports teams.
I am confident in what I've been told that we will compete at a HIGH level, that we will win, we will represent the school and these goals well. You can read between the lines if you wish on how we get there, but I know how it has been described to me. There is a plan in place, that plan does not exclude going after certain kids as much as people want to make that joke here, but there is a MASSIVE expectation that our teams (not just hoops) will behave appropriately and understand who is joining the programs better be vetted to the tee.
This is the same old song, I've heard it before.
I went to a "private" parochial h.s. and did a few nights on the phones doing fund raising and what did learn?
The big money guys, international bankers, big time doctors, residents with prestigious addresses like Sugarland Texas gave spit. Retired fire captains, equipment operators, retired school teachers all gave. So much for the privileged supporting private education. They tend to be more takers than givers.
The exception always proves the rule and one deep pocket alum. can make a big contribution and get a building named after him or her, and thank God for that, but basing admissions on class is just wishful thinking.
I owe a debt to Marquette, I'll pay it, but if the administration is trolling for good looking applications from the right side of the tracks I'm very disapointed.
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This is the same old song, I've heard it before.
I went to a "private" parochial h.s. and did a few nights on the phones doing fund raising and what did learn?
The big money guys, international bankers, big time doctors, residents with prestigious addresses like Sugarland Texas gave spit. Retired fire captains, equipment operators, retired school teachers all gave. So much for the privileged supporting private education. They tend to be more takers than givers.
The exception always proves the rule and one deep pocket alum. can make a big contribution and get a building named after him or her, and thank God for that, but basing admissions on class is just wishful thinking.
I owe a debt to Marquette, I'll pay it, but if the administration is trolling for good looking applications from the right side of the tracks I'm very disapointed.
They have an obligation to be in business in the future. The people that keep them employed are students and alumni. They would be beyond stupid not to think about their customer base and who keeps the institution going. Education costs a ton of money to keep going, and without state subsidies to the tune that state schools are getting, that is the reality of the world that they and other private schools find themselves in.
Ignore it at your own peril, I'm glad our university isn't ignoring it, but rather being pragmatic about the realities of the world.
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UConn is a good school, G'Town is a good school, both basketball programs have taken their share of guys that quite frankly didn't belong academically in the parking lot of the school. Different strokes for different folks. I admire what Stanford does, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame, etc.
Your elitism is disgusting. And it's also selective and hypocritical. You celebrate the Final Four of 2003 as Marquette's crowning achievement in the past 4 decades, the validation of Tom Crean's place in our history. But in your world, Dwyane Wade didn't belong academically in Marquette's parking lot. I'd give 100-1 that Robert Jackson (a product of MPS who began his career at Mississippi State - ugh) didn't either. Those two accounted for 47% of the points and 42% of the rebounds of the entire team that season.
I'll continue to celebrate that team because I'm not embarrassed by those kids. Hell, I'm in awe of them, just as I'm in awe of all the young men who came from much more difficult circumstances than you or I could imagine to improve their own lives and represent Marquette proudly. Crawl back in your hole, don't let those you deem unworthy in your special, exclusive parking lot. They don't want to be there anyway. Neither do any of the other Marquette alums whom I respect.
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I'll continue to celebrate that team because I'm not embarrassed by those kids. Hell, I'm in awe of them, just as I'm in awe of all the young men who came from much more difficult circumstances than you or I could imagine to improve their own lives and represent Marquette proudly.
Exactly. I don't care what background they come from. If they go to class, stay out of trouble, and win games, that's all that matters. Junior Cadougan went through a lot of sh*t growing up and now has a MU degree. We should celebrate those stories.
Part of MU's mission going forward is to be accessible for first-generation students. The basketball program shouldn't sway from that either.
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Some here talk about the missing rivalries with former BEast schools like Louisville, UCONN etc.
Others point out how our remaining schedule is loaded with Top 50 teams.
I look forward to the rivalries we develop with these Top 50 teams and believe at some future point those teams will drive ticket sales as Joe the Plumber becomes familiar with the quality match-ups these games will provide (once MU is consistently competitive).
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Some here talk about the missing rivalries with former BEast schools like Louisville, UCONN etc.
Others point out how our remaining schedule is loaded with Top 50 teams.
I look forward to the rivalries we develop with these Top 50 teams and believe at some future point those teams will drive ticket sales as Joe the Plumber becomes familiar with the quality match-ups these games will provide (once MU is consistently competitive).
We traded Notre Dame, Louisville, UCONN, Syracuse, Cincinnati and (yuk) Rutgers for Xavier, Butler and Creighton.
Football forced us into a bad situation and we made the best of it - but let's face it, it was a bad situation.
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We traded Notre Dame, Louisville, UCONN, Syracuse, Cincinnati and (yuk) Rutgers for Xavier, Butler and Creighton.
Football forced us into a bad situation and we made the best of it - but let's face it, it was a bad situation.
Yes, I realize that trade and football causing it.
I just think that in a few years playing Nova, G'town, Butler, Xavier and maybe Creighton could drive ticket sales as the fanbase accepts these as quality Bball teams most years.
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Yes, I realize that trade and football causing it.
I just think that in a few years playing Nova, G'town, Butler, Xavier and maybe Creighton could drive ticket sales as the fanbase accepts these as quality Bball teams most years.
I completely agree with this. The double round robin format helps to build enduring and meaningful rivalries. I am very happy with this league and the opportunity for us.
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I completely agree with this. The double round robin format helps to build enduring and meaningful rivalries. I am very happy with this league and the opportunity for us.
What is a meaningful rivalry? A rivalry that the regular ticket holder's like does not necessarily bring in new season ticket holders or walk up sales. The new conference identity's impact on season ticket sales can only be resolved by dropping some buy games in exchange for regular series with Notre Dame and Louisville. Add another quality Big 10 team to rotate with UW. At this point I would take Indiana or Mich St.
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One thing MU should never, ever do again is place a team like Stetson in January. Just as STH's are forgetting the endless buy games of December, you toss another one in.
If a Wake Forest type home and home or UWGB / UWM buy could have been played this week (matching BYE weeks) it would have been great but otherwise, take your BYE and move on.
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Hard work is an admirable thing, it's also not exclusive to JUCO kids. Just as not all JUCO kids bust their butts either.
We will continue to recruit JUCOs, there will be transfers into the program, and on occasion there will be guys that we take a flyer on academically. It just won't be 40% to 50% of the roster anymore. Nor does it have to be to be successful.
Some of you make it out like a zero sum game, it isn't.
In the last 7 years of the Crean era we took 4 "academic flyers" on non qualifiers - Wade, Marcus Jackson, Jamil Lott and Trend Blackledge. 5 if you count prep school grad Lazar Hayward. In Buzz's 6 years we took 2 - Bucks and Crowder. Three if you count prep school grad Todd Mayo. Kinsella, Butler, Fulce and DJO qualified to access Marquette's parking lot out of high school.