Remember when Wojo was hired? Most of us were still reeling from the Shaka fiasco but were told "Fear not, Wojo blew 'em away in the interview - we caught a break when Shaka's wife got cold feet". This may or may not prove to be true - I'm not making judgements about ultimate success or failure yet - but it begs an important question. Just how did Wojo "blow 'em away, hit a grand slam" in that interview? I've been listening to him speak for 18 months and I've yet to be blown away. He LOOKS like your dream coach - in shape, tastefully dressed, etc.. but in those 18 months I've never heard him say anything interesting or insightful. Nothing that makes me think "This guy is really SMART". Maybe he fails safe to "coach speak" to avoid controversy. Maybe the administration likes it that way. Maybe I just prefer characters like Al or Buzz. But I think humor, creativity and thinking outside the box are indications of intelligence and are necessary for leadership. Hoping that Wojo has it and that he lets it show - but for now, I'm wondering...
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2016, 02:50:56 PM
Remember when Wojo was hired? Most of us were still reeling from the Shaka fiasco but were told "Fear not, Wojo blew 'em away in the interview - we caught a break when Shaka's wife got cold feet". This may or may not prove to be true - I'm not making judgements about ultimate success or failure yet - but it begs an important question. Just how did Wojo "blow 'em away, hit a grand slam" in that interview? I've been listening to him speak for 18 months and I've yet to be blown away. He LOOKS like your dream coach - in shape, tastefully dressed, etc.. but in those 18 months I've never heard him say anything interesting or insightful. Nothing that makes me think "This guy is really SMART". Maybe he fails safe to "coach speak" to avoid controversy. Maybe the administration likes it that way. Maybe I just prefer characters like Al or Buzz. But I think humor, creativity and thinking outside the box are indications of intelligence and are necessary for leadership. Hoping that Wojo has it and that he lets it show - but for now, I'm wondering...
I think he is clearly "coach speak." His mentor never says anything interesting either. They play their cards close to the vest and let very few in on their inner circle. But reports are that he is very different, good and bad, when the lights aren't on. My guess is Wojo is similar.
But the fact that he has closed on good recruits, and is generally making very good impressions with high school coaches in the area, leads me to believe he has an engaging personality.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 21, 2016, 02:55:54 PM
I think he is clearly "coach speak." His mentor never says anything interesting either. They play their cards close to the vest and let very few in on their inner circle. But reports are that he is very different, good and bad, when the lights aren't on. My guess is Wojo is similar.
But the fact that he has closed on good recruits, and is generally making very good impressions with high school coaches in the area, leads me to believe he has an engaging personality.
I agree he is engaging, polite and sincere. Beyond that, he hasn't shown his cards - maybe, as you suggest, he just play them close to his vest. Hope so.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2016, 02:50:56 PM
Remember when Wojo was hired? Most of us were still reeling from the Shaka fiasco but were told "Fear not, Wojo blew 'em away in the interview - we caught a break when Shaka's wife got cold feet". This may or may not prove to be true - I'm not making judgements about ultimate success or failure yet - but it begs an important question. Just how did Wojo "blow 'em away, hit a grand slam" in that interview? I've been listening to him speak for 18 months and I've yet to be blown away. He LOOKS like your dream coach - in shape, tastefully dressed, etc.. but in those 18 months I've never heard him say anything interesting or insightful. Nothing that makes me think "This guy is really SMART". Maybe he fails safe to "coach speak" to avoid controversy. Maybe the administration likes it that way. Maybe I just prefer characters like Al or Buzz. But I think humor, creativity and thinking outside the box are indications of intelligence and are necessary for leadership. Hoping that Wojo has it and that he lets it show - but for now, I'm wondering...
After the drama and quirks of Buzz, I can easily see how a guy that is professional, engaging, polite and energetic could blow away the MU brass. Wojo is quite different than Buzz. And, I like Buzz, but the guy is really weird.
I think Wojo is really green. Both Crean and Buzz had the benefit of working for a number of head-coaches and programs. Those variety of experiences I believe really helped them succeed early on. Wojo doesn't have that. And, I also think his inexperienced staff has made the transition a bit harder.
After Shaka mess they were on their heals. Wojo came in and wowed them. TAMU was on the Wojo to MU early and I had heard the rumors but did not believe it. Actually on the first weekend after Buzz left, Wojo was mentioned to me and the person telling me and I both laughed and said no way. When things started to get away from them I believe they opted for a safe play.
I mentioned it elsewhere, but if Wojo came in and presented his time coaching National Team/Olympians, played up everything he had learned at K's elbow and gave a detailed, impassioned vision of how he was going to make MU the Duke of the Big East, done deal.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 21, 2016, 03:32:22 PM
Both Crean and Buzz had the benefit of working for a number of head-coaches and programs. Those variety of experiences I believe really helped them succeed early on.
Disagree on Crean. So far, this is actually better than his second year. Sure, his conference season started better, but in a much WORSE conference. After 7 conference games in year 2, the team was 5-2, with WINS: DePaul, Cincy, USF, SLU, Tulane LOSSES: UNCC, Southern Miss.
edit: ended the year with a final RPI of 113.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2016, 02:50:56 PM
Remember when Wojo was hired? Most of us were still reeling from the Shaka fiasco but were told "Fear not, Wojo blew 'em away in the interview - we caught a break when Shaka's wife got cold feet". This may or may not prove to be true - I'm not making judgements about ultimate success or failure yet - but it begs an important question. Just how did Wojo "blow 'em away, hit a grand slam" in that interview? I've been listening to him speak for 18 months and I've yet to be blown away. He LOOKS like your dream coach - in shape, tastefully dressed, etc.. but in those 18 months I've never heard him say anything interesting or insightful. Nothing that makes me think "This guy is really SMART". Maybe he fails safe to "coach speak" to avoid controversy. Maybe the administration likes it that way. Maybe I just prefer characters like Al or Buzz. But I think humor, creativity and thinking outside the box are indications of intelligence and are necessary for leadership. Hoping that Wojo has it and that he lets it show - but for now, I'm wondering...
He probably blew them away in the same manner he blew them away to get an extension. Never underestimate the force of a potent powerpoint sales demo.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 21, 2016, 04:22:07 PM
Disagree on Crean. So far, this is actually better than his second year. Sure, his conference season started better, but in a much WORSE conference. After 7 conference games in year 2, the team was 5-2, with WINS: DePaul, Cincy, USF, SLU, Tulane LOSSES: UNCC, Southern Miss.
Crean made Final 4 in year four. I'll take that with Wojo :)
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 21, 2016, 04:29:49 PM
Crean made Final 4 in year four. I'll take that with Wojo :)
Fair, but 1) We have to give Wojo the chance, and 2) Crean was still no better in year 2.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 21, 2016, 04:29:42 PM
He probably blew them away in the same manner he blew them away to get an extension. Never underestimate the force of a potent powerpoint sales demo.
LOL - good one Willie.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 21, 2016, 04:22:07 PM
Disagree on Crean. So far, this is actually better than his second year. Sure, his conference season started better, but in a much WORSE conference. After 7 conference games in year 2, the team was 5-2, with WINS: DePaul, Cincy, USF, SLU, Tulane LOSSES: UNCC, Southern Miss.
edit: ended the year with a final RPI of 113.
We will see. The way the team is playing, a conference record of 5-13 or 6-12 seems very realistic. That would give MU a RPI of 151 (5 wins) or 135 (6 wins) according to Brew's RPI data.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 21, 2016, 04:30:45 PM
Fair, but 1) We have to give Wojo the chance, and 2) Crean was still no better in year 2.
I totally agree with you. He needs time.
Anyone else seeing this comercial lately? Wojo the racer
http://youtu.be/lDcjBCd2DDU
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 21, 2016, 04:22:07 PM
Disagree on Crean. So far, this is actually better than his second year. Sure, his conference season started better, but in a much WORSE conference. After 7 conference games in year 2, the team was 5-2, with WINS: DePaul, Cincy, USF, SLU, Tulane LOSSES: UNCC, Southern Miss.
edit: ended the year with a final RPI of 113.
Our final RPI is on pace 143 this year.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 06:32:45 PM
Our final RPI is on pace 143 this year.
Dem yummy cupcakes. Ouch.
I mean, I've listened to all the interviews and all I'm saying is, I heard from a guy that Wojo likes to kick puppies in the face.
Ask his players about their opinion of Wojo. That'll give you the answer. Wojo told the admins that it would take years to rebuild, but he promised long term success. We're on the right path
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 07:33:46 PM
Ask his players about their opinion of Wojo. That'll give you the answer. Wojo told the admins that it would take years to rebuild, but he promised long term success. We're on the right path
+1
Absolutely give him time. We won't care much about his quotability (or about crowd enthusiasm or all the other nits we pick at) if we start winning consistently.
That said. I really liked Buzz's personality. Weird dude but the guy was colorful and it matched Marquette's history of coaches with unique personality, like Al and Majerus. Buzz also had far less experience than Wojo but nevertheless had a knack for finding ways to win and get the most out of his players. Wish things had turned out differently with Buzz because I thought he fit our program well, but, alas, what's done is done. In the end, I don't think boring coach-speak is a harbinger of anyone's ability to coach. Most coaches do that. I'll take coach-speak from Wojo or anyone else if they take us to the Promised Land.
Buzz had a short shelf life. Wojo is playing the long game.
I've said this before so my apologies for repeating myself but he has a very young assistant coaching staff. It would be nice to have a seasoned strategy guy on that bench.
Let's face it... Woj is learning on the job just like Crean and O'Neill did. That's fine but one should recognize their shortcomings and have someone on staff to make the transition better. Not a bunch of young "friends".
Maybe they were all blown away in da literal sense, ai na?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 06:32:45 PM
Our final RPI is on pace 143 this year.
(sic) No. Let's stop pretending the RPI is a simple calc and an RPI ranking can be thrown out as 'if you do this, it'll be this.' Please use 'approximately,' etc type language always.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 21, 2016, 08:40:47 PM
I've said this before so my apologies for repeating myself but he has a very young assistant coaching staff. It would be nice to have a seasoned strategy guy on that bench.
Let's face it... Woj is learning on the job just like Crean and O'Neill did. That's fine but one should recognize their shortcomings and have someone on staff to make the transition better. Not a bunch of young "friends".
100% agree. I have my own personal reservations about Wojo but those aside, he needs to completely revamp his assistants. What exactly do Chris carrawell or Travis diener give us? Nelson - I think he might belong as a natural recruiter but the other two are zeros.
Quote from: Richard Shaw's Retired Number on January 21, 2016, 09:29:21 PM
100% agree. I have my own personal reservations about Wojo but those aside, he needs to completely revamp his assistants. What exactly do Chris carrawell or Travis diener give us? Nelson - I think he might belong as a natural recruiter but the other two are zeros.
Travis is not an assistant.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 07:33:46 PM
Ask his players about their opinion of Wojo. That'll give you the answer. Wojo told the admins that it would take years to rebuild, but he promised long term success. We're on the right path
1. How Wojo's players PLAY for Wojo is more important than how they FEEL about him.
2. How many years? Do you really think the administration (or Wojo himself) thought we'd be this bad this year?
I like Wojo and am pulling for him but I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you this year's team is not meeting expectations.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 21, 2016, 09:01:29 PM
(sic) No. Let's stop pretending the RPI is a simple calc and an RPI ranking can be thrown out as 'if you do this, it'll be this.' Please use 'approximately,' etc type language always.
I thought that was understood. I also said on pace, but of course you are correct that many things can still happen. If we win the games the predictor says and we lose the games the predictor says and everyone else does the same thing, we will pace about that number. The reality is that some of the predictions will be wrong, so is the swag about 20 spots either way? 30? 40? I don't know, but the swag will get smaller as the number of games diminishes.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2016, 09:57:50 PM
1. How Wojo's players PLAY for Wojo is more important than how they FEEL about him.
2. How many years? Do you really think the administration (or Wojo himself) thought we'd be this bad this year?
I like Wojo and am pulling for him but I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you this year's team is not meeting expectations.
I know it sucks to lose to Depaul but the team is fine. Were not playing bad, assuming you had reasonable expectations of the team. We have two losses I would call unexpected, Depaul and Seton Hall. We have three wins I would call unexpected, LSU, at Wisconsin, and at Providence. Math comes out in our favor.
You are right that Wojo would be the first to say he isnt meeting expectations. But hed also know that his personal expectations arent realistic.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 11:07:06 PM
I know it sucks to lose to Depaul but the team is fine. Were not playing bad, assuming you had reasonable expectations of the team. We have two losses I would call unexpected, Depaul and Seton Hall. We have three wins I would call unexpected, LSU, at Wisconsin, and at Providence. Math comes out in our favor.
You are right that Wojo would be the first to say he isnt meeting expectations. But hed also know that his personal expectations arent realistic.
I would only say the Providence game is an unexpected win. LSU and WI were definitely beatable.
Quote from: Norm on January 21, 2016, 11:15:58 PM
I would only say the Providence game is an unexpected win. LSU and WI were definitely beatable.
If you truly think that (lsu i could see but AT wisconsin? No way) Then the Seton Hall loss could be labeled as expected. Math still come out at one to one.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2016, 02:50:56 PM
Remember when Wojo was hired? Most of us were still reeling from the Shaka fiasco but were told "Fear not, Wojo blew 'em away in the interview - we caught a break when Shaka's wife got cold feet". This may or may not prove to be true - I'm not making judgements about ultimate success or failure yet - but it begs an important question. Just how did Wojo "blow 'em away, hit a grand slam" in that interview? I've been listening to him speak for 18 months and I've yet to be blown away. He LOOKS like your dream coach - in shape, tastefully dressed, etc.. but in those 18 months I've never heard him say anything interesting or insightful. Nothing that makes me think "This guy is really SMART". Maybe he fails safe to "coach speak" to avoid controversy. Maybe the administration likes it that way. Maybe I just prefer characters like Al or Buzz. But I think humor, creativity and thinking outside the box are indications of intelligence and are necessary for leadership. Hoping that Wojo has it and that he lets it show - but for now, I'm wondering...
I agree the Wojo hire speaks more to who the board is or think they are than who Wojo is.
The university has an image it wants to project and Wojo fits the bill. Marquette is not a liberal arts university and does not promote thinking outside the box or creative thinking. It is about getting kids prepared for good jobs mostly in health care or engineering/business/law. Creative, eccentric, outside the box types need not apply. Back in the days of Father Walsh and McGuire it was a very different environment.
Marquette dreams of being Duke lite.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 11:07:06 PM
hed also know that his personal expectations arent realistic.
Coaches, above all, need to be pragmatists. If his expectations are not realistic then the season will be a massive failure. He needs to plan for the possible and not the mystical.
I agree with Lenny that while I am pulling for Wojo I also believe that everyone associated with the program is shaking their head at where we are at as of today. We need to be better than this.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 11:49:38 PM
If you truly think that (lsu i could see but AT wisconsin? No way) Then the Seton Hall loss could be labeled as expected. Math still come out at one to one.
LSU was not playing well before we met them and WI was also playing terribly - with two loses on their home court before we beat them.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2016, 09:57:50 PM
1. How Wojo's players PLAY for Wojo is more important than how they FEEL about him.
2. How many years? Do you really think the administration (or Wojo himself) thought we'd be this bad this year?
I like Wojo and am pulling for him but I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you this year's team is not meeting expectations.
I think Wojo knows basketball and world recruiting, has a good reputation and all that. I don't think he knows the BIG East and the reffing yet. He is learning.
I think the refereeing hurts Big East teams in the big dance. I think refereeing in college basketball is inconsistent from one league to another.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 21, 2016, 04:29:49 PM
Crean made Final 4 in year four. I'll take that with Wojo :)
So would any of us. Given where we are right now, the question would be--is there any chance? That 2003 FF team had some real studs: Wade, Diener, Merritt, a Frosh that was unconscious at draining 3's, and then some great complementary players. This current team has nobody like that. HE, most believe will be gone before year 4 of Wojo, and none of the current guys approaches others from that 03 team. And what incoming recruits approach any of those 03 players. Yes, all would take a FF in year 4, but that does not appear on the horizon--unless we hold out both hands and wish in one....
Growing pains with a young team can be painful. . .especially on a chat board.
Quote from: mu-rara on January 21, 2016, 08:39:36 PM
Buzz had a short shelf life. Wojo is playing the long game.
Clearly said, complete
Short and direct to the point
Good as a haiku
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 07:33:46 PM
Ask his players about their opinion of Wojo. That'll give you the answer. Wojo told the admins that it would take years to rebuild, but he promised long term success. We're on the right path
What kind of administration hires somebody who sets a low bar for performance in the initial stages, for the "promise" of long term success - when said person has NEVER produced such success elsewhere? Answer: The same administration who rewards the hire with a contract extension 18 months into the job that has produced a last place finish in his business unit, while tracking effectively toward another last place finish in year two.
It's one thing to believe such a statement if it comes from a head coach with a proven track record of rebuilding programs. But it is a totally different matter when it comes from a career assistant who has gotten to work in a program that has routinely had the best of the best talent coming into it.
I hope Wojo gets it figured out, but from all available data he seems entirely over his head from both a coaching and player personnel perspective.
Quote from: Meathead on January 22, 2016, 11:38:26 AM
I hope Wojo gets it figured out, but from all available data he seems entirely over his head from both a coaching and player personnel perspective.
Isnt his recruiting and the rapport hes built with his players data that says hes not over his head?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 22, 2016, 11:58:58 AM
Isnt his recruiting and the rapport hes built with his players data that says hes not over his head?
Again, I'm confused by the phrase "the rapport he's built with his players". What does that mean? That they like him? That our players are having a nice experience? I want our players to have a coach who inspires them. A coach who can push them to heights they never thought possible. Someone that they may hate in the moment but be grateful for 5, 10 or 20 years from now. A head coach shouldn't be your "buddy" - that's the job of an assistant.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 22, 2016, 12:50:21 PM
I want our players to have a coach who inspires them. A coach who can push them to heights they never thought possible. Someone that they may hate in the moment but be grateful for 5, 10 or 20 years from now
Talk to the players. Theyll confirm that this describes Wojo.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 22, 2016, 02:00:37 AM
Marquette dreams of being Duke lite.
Is that Good or Bad??
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 22, 2016, 11:58:58 AM
Isnt his recruiting and the rapport hes built with his players data that says hes not over his head?
Wojo has and is doing well with his recruiting, that is the one aspect of his performance thus far that gives me hope. However, how he's managed minutes, game situations, and the available talent in the program when he accepted the position - and the resulting records are concerning.
You could also make the point on the contrary that Wojo didn't build such a good rapport with the four players who left the program within his first year on the job - and arguably two of the four players that left were very capable contributors: Mayo, Burton. Dawson appears to be playing very well for his new team, though a very low tier program/conference - the same conference Rowsey transferred in from.
Quote from: Meathead on January 22, 2016, 01:29:53 PM
You could also make the point on the contrary that Wojo didn't build such a good rapport with the four players who left the program within his first year on the job - and arguably two of the four players that left were very capable contributors: Mayo, Burton. Dawson appears to be playing very well for his new team, though a very low tier program/conference - the same conference Rowsey transferred in from.
Wojo wasnt given option to keep Mayo. Mayo didnt leave he was dismissed. Dawson wasnt going to get playing time. Taylor doesnt really count because he would of transferred if Buzz had stayed. Burton was an unfortunate loss but not unexpected when a new coach takes over.