Fun to see a few folks here that haven't been around in quite some time.
At any rate, have we all lost our historical anchors?
How long before Kevin O'Neill got things going? Year 3, and that was a year with no NIT. Took until year 4.
Tom Crean? Took until year 3 to get the first NCAA bid
I have no idea if Wojo is the guy, that's why I always tout 4 to 5 years. Let him get his class or two classes through, but some of the craziness here. Goodness. He's doing it the right way, there are no "issues" on the team, no recruiting "issues", etc.
Things tend to look a lot better on the court when you have experience, good point guard, etc. Give it some time.
If the loss to DePaul can get Chicos and I to agree, who knows what else Wojo can do!!!
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 21, 2016, 02:50:37 PM
If the loss to DePaul can get Chicos and I to agree, who knows what else Wojo can do!!!
When we lost to DePaul (on the road) in Buzz's second year Chico went on and on and on about how embarrassed he was by the coaches and the team. Kinda like the guys he's criticizing now. Hypocrisy.
Some of us reserve the right to grow wiser as we grow older.
Chico's
In KO's first year he beat ND at home and played Michigan tough the following weekend with nobody on that team and this was in December of that year. There was excitement and action from day one with KO. Two years in to Wojo time and less excitement than when he started surrounding the program.
agree with most of this, not mad at the team, they do more than I ever would, just a case of basketball depression (MU, Lakers and Bucks fan) wah wah
Imagine a team with four future NBA players losing to DePaul....a DePaul team that had ONE conference win that whole year
Jimmy Butler (NBA)
Lazar Hayward (NBA)
Dwight Buycks (NBA)
DJO (NBA)
Junior Cadougan
Mo Acker
ETc
Losing to DePaul.....but they did. In fact, scored all of 50 points in the effort. DePaul that year went 1-17 in conference.
Just throwing it out there. And for the record, I have no doubt I was beyond pissed about it here.
I'm getting older, wiser.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 02:48:39 PM
Fun to see a few folks here that haven't been around in quite some time.
At any rate, have we all lost our historical anchors?
How long before Kevin O'Neill got things going? Year 3, and that was a year with no NIT. Took until year 4.
Tom Crean? Took until year 3 to get the first NCAA bid
I have no idea if Wojo is the guy, that's why I always tout 4 to 5 years. Let him get his class or two classes through, but some of the craziness here. Goodness. He's doing it the right way, there are no "issues" on the team, no recruiting "issues", etc.
Things tend to look a lot better on the court when you have experience, good point guard, etc. Give it some time.
Good post.
Quote from: LAMUfan on January 21, 2016, 03:15:54 PM
agree with most of this, not mad at the team, they do more than I ever would, just a case of basketball depression (MU, Lakers and Bucks fan) wah wah
Here's a thought. Maybe rather than blaming 100% on the players and coaches, some % should go those experts for their rankings for not seeing what we are Now seeing. Maybe they miscalculated.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on January 21, 2016, 03:40:59 PM
Here's a thought. Maybe rather than blaming 100% on the players and coaches, some % should go those experts for their rankings for not seeing what we are Now seeing. Maybe they miscalculated.
For sure, I don't blame college kids for how good they are at basketball, and honestly I wouldn't be any happier if we had lower ranked recruits or team, just over due for some winning which I think a lot of scoopers are
Good post Chicos.Wojo inherited a bare cupboard.Looks like he is not going the Juco route.It is going to take a few years.He has only had one recruiting class.When he has 3 or 4 of his recruiting classes you will see the difference.How is Duke and Kentucky playing with all their Freshmen? Not so great and they get the cream of the crop. People should be a shamed of themselves at some of these postings.I ran into a recruit at the game last night. Had a nice talk. Sure hope he does not read this board. Believe me some of them read them. You are doing the program no favors by these comments
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 03:18:46 PM
Imagine a team with four future NBA players losing to DePaul....a DePaul team that had ONE conference win that whole year
Jimmy Butler (NBA)
Lazar Hayward (NBA)
Dwight Buycks (NBA)
DJO (NBA)
Junior Cadougan
Mo Acker
ETc
Losing to DePaul.....but they did. In fact, scored all of 50 points in the effort. DePaul that year went 1-17 in conference.
Just throwing it out there. And for the record, I have no doubt I was beyond pissed about it here.
I'm getting older, wiser.
Only older. Your over the top totally bonkers "I'm embarrassed" reaction in 2010 was a swipe at our coach. Nothing more. BS the new guys all you want but you can't BS those of us who were on Scoop back then.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 02:48:39 PM
Fun to see a few folks here that haven't been around in quite some time.
At any rate, have we all lost our historical anchors?
How long before Kevin O'Neill got things going? Year 3, and that was a year with no NIT. Took until year 4.
Tom Crean? Took until year 3 to get the first NCAA bid
I have no idea if Wojo is the guy, that's why I always tout 4 to 5 years. Let him get his class or two classes through, but some of the craziness here. Goodness. He's doing it the right way, there are no "issues" on the team, no recruiting "issues", etc.
Things tend to look a lot better on the court when you have experience, good point guard, etc. Give it some time.
FWIW, Kevin did inherit Tony Smith. We did go to the NIT Kevin's first year and lost to Penn St. in the first round. After the insufferable Dukiet regime, that was a big deal.
Quote from: Goose on January 21, 2016, 03:13:41 PM
Chico's
In KO's first year he beat ND at home and played Michigan tough the following weekend with nobody on that team and this was in December of that year. There was excitement and action from day one with KO. Two years in to Wojo time and less excitement than when he started surrounding the program.
I think that is quite the rosy picture. In December, after we beat UW and coming off our wins in Brooklyn, people were plenty excited here.
And 1989-90 team had a future NBA player in Tony Smith as a senior who put up a couple 40 point games. This team didn't have that last year and doesn't have that this year.
In KO's second year, they went 11-18 and missed the post-season. They had three freshman that built up the core of the next good MU team however. They still missed the post-season as sophomores with a freshman Tony Miller but made the NCAAs the next two years.
So if you are going to compare Wojo to KO, the first year isn't apple to apples. But after that, it may be a good lesson about what we should expect in terms of growth and the time it takes.
I thought KO made the NIT his first year. Tony Smith's senior year, but my memory might be off.
In KO's second year they played an A schedule and struggled. Anyone that knew anything about basketball knew they were on the way to bigger things
KO and Crean - no Big East, AL, track record of success, weekly national televised games, big budget.
Quote from: Goose on January 21, 2016, 03:13:41 PM
Chico's
In KO's first year he beat ND at home and played Michigan tough the following weekend with nobody on that team and this was in December of that year. There was excitement and action from day one with KO. Two years in to Wojo time and less excitement than when he started surrounding the program.
I was in Brooklyn in November and was freakin' thrilled and proud to see Marquette's players and coaches being handed the trophy while MARQUETTE MARQUETTE MARQUETTE flashed on all the scoreboards and signboards at Barclay Center. I watched both the Wisconsin and Providence games with large groups of MU alums and we were beyond excited as we watched both.
We've had some pretty nice moments this season.
Some pretty crappy ones, too, and DePaul was a low.
Most Scoopers who aren't knee-jerk yahoos commented two months ago that the team probably would win a few they "shouldn't" and lose a few they "shouldn't," because that's what young teams do.
Get a grip, try having some perspective ... and don't try to claim there hasn't been a good deal of excitement this season.
I'm not ready to write Wojo off by any stretch. I do think it's fair to start wondering if it's time to say goodbye if we don't see measurable progress by this time next year.
Quote from: Goose on January 21, 2016, 07:12:17 PM
In KO's second year they played an A schedule and struggled. Anyone that knew anything about basketball knew they were on the way to bigger things
That's Monday Morning Quarterbacking at its finest. That was the year they lost in the first round of the MCC conference tournament and it was depressing. That team was very similar to this one.
Quote from: bilsu on January 21, 2016, 06:36:13 PM
I thought KO made the NIT his first year. Tony Smith's senior year, but my memory might be off.
They did. Sorry I didn't mean to exclude that.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 21, 2016, 07:45:39 PM
That's Monday Morning Quarterbacking at its finest. That was the year they lost in the first round of the MCC conference tournament and it was depressing. That team was very similar to this one.
Except that neither Mac, nor Key, nor Logterman were planning on leaving after a year.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 21, 2016, 07:17:29 PM
KO and Crean - no Big East, AL, track record of success, weekly national televised games, big budget.
Which all helps recruiting - which is exactly what Wojo is doing well.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 21, 2016, 07:36:17 PM
I'm not ready to write Wojo off by any stretch. I do think it's fair to start wondering if it's time to say goodbye if we don't see measurable progress by this time next year.
Oh I agree completely. He has two more years IMO.
In da words of that great 21st century American prophet, Charles Barkley, who once said, "I make 3 million bucks a year. I don't get embarrassed," hey?
Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2016, 07:20:53 PM
I was in Brooklyn in November and was freakin' thrilled and proud to see Marquette's players and coaches being handed the trophy while MARQUETTE MARQUETTE MARQUETTE flashed on all the scoreboards and signboards at Barclay Center. I watched both the Wisconsin and Providence games with large groups of MU alums and we were beyond excited as we watched both.
We've had some pretty nice moments this season.
Some pretty crappy ones, too, and DePaul was a low.
Most Scoopers who aren't knee-jerk yahoos commented two months ago that the team probably would win a few they "shouldn't" and lose a few they "shouldn't," because that's what young teams do.
Get a grip, try having some perspective ... and don't try to claim there hasn't been a good deal of excitement this season.
I enjoyed going to the games at the Barclays as well.
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on January 21, 2016, 04:11:22 PM
Good post Chicos.Wojo inherited a bare cupboard.Looks like he is not going the Juco route.It is going to take a few years.He has only had one recruiting class.When he has 3 or 4 of his recruiting classes you will see the difference.How is Duke and Kentucky playing with all their Freshmen? Not so great and they get the cream of the crop. People should be a shamed of themselves at some of these postings.I ran into a recruit at the game last night. Had a nice talk. Sure hope he does not read this board. Believe me some of them read them. You are doing the program no favors by these comments
Amen
Quote from: Goose on January 21, 2016, 07:12:17 PM
In KO's second year they played an A schedule and struggled. Anyone that knew anything about basketball knew they were on the way to bigger things
Exactly how I feel about this team. Don't know if I know anything about basketball though....
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 21, 2016, 07:36:17 PM
I'm not ready to write Wojo off by any stretch. I do think it's fair to start wondering if it's time to say goodbye if we don't see measurable progress by this time next year.
For me the seat gets warm after next season if no postseason. I won't be calling for heads until after year four of no postseason with Wojo
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 02:48:39 PM
Fun to see a few folks here that haven't been around in quite some time.
At any rate, have we all lost our historical anchors?
How long before Kevin O'Neill got things going? Year 3, and that was a year with no NIT. Took until year 4.
Tom Crean? Took until year 3 to get the first NCAA bid
I have no idea if Wojo is the guy, that's why I always tout 4 to 5 years. Let him get his class or two classes through, but some of the craziness here. Goodness. He's doing it the right way, there are no "issues" on the team, no recruiting "issues", etc.
Things tend to look a lot better on the court when you have experience, good point guard, etc. Give it some time.
Chicos, why should a bball coach get more leeway than a football coach? I stated in another thread that it is far more difficult to manage 55-65 inherited players and run an offense/defense that might not be suites for a lot of the existing players. The SEC doesnt mess around. Even UT fans want strong gone.
In bball,all it takes is a couple of great players to not just be competitive but to win big. Why are we settling for low expectations? If wojo was at duke as HC, would he be on the hot seat? At UK? At KU? I could name a dozen other programs in which wojo would be in big trouble right now.
But hey...5 years. More than football coaches get at football factories...
Quote from: Atticus on January 21, 2016, 09:59:05 PM
Chicos, why should a bball coach get more leeway than a football coach? I stated in another thread that it is far more difficult to manage 55-65 inherited players and run an offense/defense that might not be suites for a lot of the existing players. The SEC doesnt mess around. Even UT fans want strong gone.
In bball,all it takes is a couple of great players to not just be competitive but to win big. Why are we settling for low expectations? If wojo was at duke as HC, would he be on the hot seat? At UK? At KU? I could name a dozen other programs in which wojo would be in big trouble right now.
But hey...5 years. More than football coaches get at football factories...
My guess is Chicos would say those football coaches should get the same amount of time. Maybe he wouldn't.
Continuity is key, for me at least. Look at most of the successful organizations in any sport at any level. Packers, Steelers, Giants, Patriots, Blackhawks, Red Wings, Spurs, etc, etc. For the college ranks, give a coach a full recruiting cycle, unless there's some infractions or other legal problems.
Quote from: mdubs on January 21, 2016, 04:18:25 PM
FWIW, Kevin did inherit Tony Smith. We did go to the NIT Kevin's first year and lost to Penn St. in the first round. After the insufferable Dukiet regime, that was a big deal.
Correct. I was a student at the time and worked in the athletic department. I should have stated we made it year one, my apologies. Year 3, with Key, Logterman, Mac, etc, we did not make the NIT. My greater point is that it takes time usually, especially if the roster inherited has some mismatched toys. I'm not worried. Another 2 years, then yes, but right now I see trajectory and kids still signing on the bottom line that are considered to be quality players and quality individuals.
Quote from: Goose on January 21, 2016, 03:13:41 PM
Chico's
In KO's first year he beat ND at home and played Michigan tough the following weekend with nobody on that team and this was in December of that year. There was excitement and action from day one with KO. Two years in to Wojo time and less excitement than when he started surrounding the program.
Where one starts, matters. KO's time was exciting because we were so dreadful under Dukiet. A corpse is exciting at that point. For Wojo, he came in after an average year, but only 1 year removed from an Elite 8 qualifier. In my view, that sets up expectations much differently.
I remember KO's first year well. Bruce Hayes was on the team, a pretty damn good Tony Smith at that point. Averaged 24 points per game, was an All American candidate and went on to play for the Lakers. I would say point blank that Tony in Kevin's first year is better than ANYBODY we have on our team today. That doesn't mean some guys on this team might be better than him down the road, but Tony Smith as a senior was an absolute stud.
We did beat ND that year, we also lost to ND that year. ND was eh...16-13, but it had been a long time since we beat them so it was cool to rush the court (a few of us here did it).
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on January 21, 2016, 04:11:22 PM
I ran into a recruit at the game last night. Had a nice talk. Sure hope he does not read this board. Believe me some of them read them. You are doing the program no favors by these comments
Did you get Herro's autograph?
Quote from: Goose on January 21, 2016, 07:12:17 PM
In KO's second year they played an A schedule and struggled. Anyone that knew anything about basketball knew they were on the way to bigger things
The non-conference schedule that year was amazing. The MCC, was pretty bad.
LA Gear....now that was amazing.....amazingly bad.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 10:44:04 PM
LA Gear....now that was amazing.....amazingly bad.
Amazingly fresh as fucc
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0EvZYQhdoP4/Tf7NZ8tbUOI/AAAAAAAAACo/VefXyuveFIo/s1600/lg_unstoppable04.png)
Quote from: Atticus on January 21, 2016, 09:59:05 PM
Chicos, why should a bball coach get more leeway than a football coach? I stated in another thread that it is far more difficult to manage 55-65 inherited players and run an offense/defense that might not be suites for a lot of the existing players. The SEC doesnt mess around. Even UT fans want strong gone.
In bball,all it takes is a couple of great players to not just be competitive but to win big. Why are we settling for low expectations? If wojo was at duke as HC, would he be on the hot seat? At UK? At KU? I could name a dozen other programs in which wojo would be in big trouble right now.
But hey...5 years. More than football coaches get at football factories...
People can put any years they want on it, but I'm just telling you what I do. Is it harder to manage more football players when the staff is also much bigger to do that. So it's proportional in my view. Only one game a week, only 6 road trips a year, not 14. Less time away from campus to travel, more time in school, etc.
The pressure is on a football coach more than basketball because of the revenue driven by football. It funds so much of the athletic department. Basketball, though it is very important, the financial outlays aren't nearly the same as it relates so I think that has something to do with it, but in my view they should get the same amount of time. I remember Colorado fans wanting to kick McCartney out. They gave him one more year, and they were rewarded with a national title.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 21, 2016, 10:47:58 PM
Amazingly fresh as fucc
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0EvZYQhdoP4/Tf7NZ8tbUOI/AAAAAAAAACo/VefXyuveFIo/s1600/lg_unstoppable04.png)
:)
http://journaltimes.com/sports/it-s-the-shoes-coach/article_bca8f8ad-b0de-5b21-9ec0-578a192fb861.html
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 21, 2016, 04:12:54 PM
Only older. Your over the top totally bonkers "I'm embarrassed" reaction in 2010 was a swipe at our coach. Nothing more. BS the new guys all you want but you can't BS those of us who were on Scoop back then.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you.