The collective 'meh' of these forums. We are so beaten down as fans that we half expected to lose to DePaul.
Sad state of MU hoops.
Embarrassing
I wasn't even that upset, I half expected it
I wouldn't say I expected it, but its not like I'm stunned or something.
Can't really argue with that statement. I know I was dreading that last possession for DePaul.
2013 seems so long ago
I was going to say the response is more apathy than anything; the students don't care, alum indifferent and the sweater vests shrug it off. Wojo will need more than pizzas to get people excited again.
It has been a rough few years. Feel defeated, believe whole fan base does.
Time to face it. We are the new DePaul of the new Big East.
There will be about 5 people at the BC next week for Stetson
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 20, 2016, 09:14:33 PM
I was going to say the response is more apathy than anything; the students don't care, alum indifferent and the sweater vests shrug it off. Wojo will need more than pizzas to get people excited again.
Pretty much what I said. :)
DePaul plus 7 was a steal
I am upset with the effort and passion exuded by this program.
rock bottom right now. had some hope after beating the badgers but boy this program has gone down the tubes
Was just thinking the same thing. I'm getting close to the apathy stage while watching games. It's not even February.
I'm willing to write off this year to youth - but if we don't make the tournament next year the Wojo hire can be classified as a failure.
Maybe we're all overreacting, but I'm getting tired of getting the crap kicked out of us in the new Big East.
I hate to be the voice of reason, as I think this loss should sting our players & coaching staff as much as it can, but a loss to the bottom dwellers was inevitable.
I hoped it would've happened away from home, but it is what it is. Marquette will beat another top team and it will lose again to St Johns or Depaul. Book it. Young team = inconsistent
Time to take away their gear again.
Fans seemed pretty out of it outside of the run to take the lead and Duane's last shot, but not sure I can blame them as it was pretty hard to watch at times... Good that they don't get overly down on themselves, but also would be good to see more fire at times.
Quote from: kryza on January 20, 2016, 09:18:14 PM
Book it. Young team = inconsistent
I want to believe -- but -- we are pretty damn consistent
Quote from: MilWarrior on January 20, 2016, 09:17:44 PM
Was just thinking the same thing. I'm getting close to the apathy stage while watching games. It's not even February.
I'm willing to write off this year to youth - but if we don't make the tournament next year the Wojo hire can be classified as a failure.
Maybe we're all overreacting, but I'm getting tired of getting the crap kicked out of us in the new Big East.
If HE leaves for the league I think any tournament next year will be a stretch. Hard to replace a double double, no matter how quietly he gets them
Easy to feel dejected. I am not going to be walking off any piers. Next game.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 20, 2016, 09:19:24 PM
I want to believe -- but -- we are pretty damn consistent
Two weeks ago we beat a top ten team on the road.
Quote from: kryza on January 20, 2016, 09:18:14 PM
I hate to be the voice of reason, as I think this loss should sting our players & coaching staff as much as it can, but a loss to the bottom dwellers was inevitable.
I hoped it would've happened away from home, but it is what it is. Marquette will beat another top team and it will lose again to Creighton or Depaul. Book it. Young team = inconsistent
The voice Scoop deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 20, 2016, 09:22:01 PM
Two weeks ago we beat a top ten team on the road.
i think we caught Providence napping.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 20, 2016, 09:22:01 PM
Two weeks ago we beat a top ten team on the road.
Because Providence had one of their worst shooting nights of their season.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 20, 2016, 09:25:13 PM
i think we caught Providence napping.
I think Depaul caught MU napping. I believe that is their first win in Milwaukee in 16 years.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 20, 2016, 09:22:01 PM
Two weeks ago we beat a top ten team on the road.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile
For the record, I was not expecting this.
The crowd was dead again tonight. Happy to report that nobody really seemed too upset after the game though. As others have said it's as if we expected to lose. This is the lowest the program has been since pre wade. There is no telling when MU will make the tounament next. Embarrassing with the resources and commitment to basketball at hand.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 20, 2016, 09:13:17 PM
I wouldn't say I expected it, but its not like I'm stunned or something.
I was worried when Garrett was outside the arc, but had a moment of calm once he moved into the lane. After all, the worst that could happen would be overtime. And then...yup, stunned and annoyed.
Was anyone at the game, it looked half empty on TV.
if the team keeps this up they will be playing in front of 200 fans at the end of the year. let's face it, when you put a poor product on the floor, don't expect much of a homecourt advantage
Feeling pretty disgusted right now. We should be getting better and are not, we seem to be regressing in fact. I am not sold on Wojo to this point, I know I'm overreacting after a ridiculous loss, but come on.....
Where is the respect the process comment or is that getting a bit tiring too?
So because we had one fluke victory we're supposed to put up with this crap for seven more seasons? The team is regressing.
It's somewhat amusing that everyone is so apathetic that no one has even noticed or cared that Garrett didn't even come close to getting fouled on that last basket
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on January 20, 2016, 09:47:11 PM
It's somewhat amusing that everyone is so apathetic that no one has even noticed or cared that Garrett didn't even come close to getting fouled on that last basket
The game thread had comments to that effect. Bottom line is that you shouldn't let it come down to one call when you're at home against DePaul.
Exactly. The interest in the program is at Deane levels...at best.
Quote from: AirPunch on January 20, 2016, 09:29:47 PM
The crowd was dead again tonight. Happy to report that nobody really seemed too upset after the game though. As others have said it's as if we expected to lose. This is the lowest the program has been since pre wade. There is no telling when MU will make the tounament next. Embarrassing with the resources and commitment to basketball at hand.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on January 20, 2016, 09:47:11 PM
It's somewhat amusing that everyone is so apathetic that no one has even noticed or cared that Garrett didn't even come close to getting fouled on that last basket
It was a bad call. Booo. So were the two fouls on Fischer in the first half and a couple of the blocks on JJ. Booo.
Or, if you're going to foul, make sure you foul hard enough that the ball can't go in
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on January 20, 2016, 09:16:55 PM
rock bottom right now. had some hope after beating the badgers but boy this program has gone down the tubes
LOL. You are a young one if you think this is rock bottom. Try going to MU during the late 1980's.
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on January 20, 2016, 09:33:28 PM
if the team keeps this up they will be playing in front of 200 fans at the end of the year. let's face it, when you put a poor product on the floor, don't expect much of a homecourt advantage
That's why I don't understand whynScoopers get on the student section/fans. It's hard to get behind this team. I went to MU when Bon Dukiet was the coach...lots of open seats at the end of his tenure/beginning of Kevin O'Niel's. I went but I was a below average student and above average consumer but I don't judge the no shows.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 20, 2016, 09:10:20 PM
The collective 'meh' of these forums. We are so beaten down as fans that we half expected to lose to DePaul.
Sad state of MU hoops.
I expected NIT this year, sorry that so many of you were buying into hype that wasn't really there and on a player in particular who is really good, but not messiahonic. Still comes to down to how good is your point guard and we haven't had good point guard play in the last 2.5 years.....look at the results. Pretty simple formula.
I expect us to be a NCAA tournament team next year and back on our way, assuming a PG is procured and or one develops from this year's team. People just don't have patience anymore, but that's the way it is.
Sadly DePaul deserved to win that game tonight. They out played us 35 of the 40 minutes. The game wasn't lost by a free throw.
It was lost by settling for a 22 point performance in the first half. That was not a very good defense we were playing against and we made them look pretty good. Should have been up by 12-15
It was lost by 3 successive turn overs when we had a 5 point lead and the ball. I can see a young team doing that in a hostile arena but it should never happen at home.
Like I posted before the game we are much closer to DePaul and St Johns then we are the rest of the BE. We're 1-1 in the "battle for the bottom" with 2 more away games remaining.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on January 20, 2016, 09:47:11 PM
It's somewhat amusing that everyone is so apathetic that no one has even noticed or cared that Garrett didn't even come close to getting fouled on that last basket
Agreed...but guys who attack the rim often get the benefit of the whistle. Might be a lesson for our guys.
I think the most telling part of the night is how unrealistic many are within are fan base.
Quote from: forgetful on January 20, 2016, 10:53:49 PM
I think the most telling part of the night is how unrealistic many are within are fan base.
I don't think it's unrealistic to think we should be able to beat a very poor DePaul team on our home court when they shoot 38.6% from the floor and 26.8% from 3.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 20, 2016, 10:03:26 PM
I expected NIT this year, sorry that so many of you were buying into hype that wasn't really there and on a player in particular who is really good, but not messiahonic. Still comes to down to how good is your point guard and we haven't had good point guard play in the last 2.5 years.....look at the results. Pretty simple formula.
I expect us to be a NCAA tournament team next year and back on our way, assuming a PG is procured and or one develops from this year's team. People just don't have patience anymore, but that's the way it is.
It is not just point guard....we have NO athletes who can play basketball in the Big East. We are slow, weak and cannot shoot. Put Jason Kidd on his prime on this team and it would still stink. To think they will be better next year is foolish.
Exactly, ecompt. Somehow, attrition will lead to improvement?! This team is badly in need of Buzz-type recruits.
Quote from: ecompt on January 20, 2016, 11:15:48 PM
It is not just point guard....we have NO athletes who can play basketball in the Big East. We are slow, weak and cannot shoot. Put Jason Kidd on his prime on this team and it would still stink. To think they will be better next year is foolish.
If HE is gone then we probably can get to .500 in conference play next year. Decent players coming back but not enough to get to the NCAA. Need some big tough players and none are coming in that I can see.
Quote from: ecompt on January 20, 2016, 11:15:48 PM
It is not just point guard....we have NO athletes who can play basketball in the Big East.
Let's not go nuts. This team has major flaws, but is one recruiting class into a rebuild. There's potential there, it's just taking time. And all of our patience is running thin after the last two years.
Now don't get me wrong... I'd love a badass JUCO to help in the frontcourt. And a guy like that is what they need to do anything next season.
H E is not a pro player!!!
Quote from: MU86NC on January 20, 2016, 11:34:35 PM
H E is not a pro player!!!
I presume this was intended to be teal?
Quote from: ecompt on January 20, 2016, 11:15:48 PM
It is not just point guard....we have NO athletes who can play basketball in the Big East. We are slow, weak and cannot shoot. Put Jason Kidd on his prime on this team and it would still stink. To think they will be better next year is foolish.
Quote from: Boone on January 20, 2016, 11:24:04 PM
Exactly, ecompt. Somehow, attrition will lead to improvement?! This team is badly in need of Buzz-type recruits.
They are freshmen. FRESHMEN. Having half your scholarship players be freshmen is terrible for immediate production but great for future growth. This team will be much improved next season. As some famous guy said, "The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores." I seem to recall that guy being a pretty good coach.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 12:05:24 AM
They are freshmen. FRESHMEN. Having half your scholarship players be freshmen is terrible for immediate production but great for future growth. This team will be much improved next season. As some famous guy said, "The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores." I seem to recall that guy being a pretty good coach.
Only problem...the star freshman will be gone & making millions of dollars
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 21, 2016, 12:08:24 AM
Only problem...the star freshman will be gone & making millions of dollars
Even if Henry leaves, this team will be better. Especially if it opens the door for grad transfer PF
Quote from: Norm on January 20, 2016, 09:25:55 PM
Because Providence had one of their worst shooting nights of their season.
according to kenpom, pc not the top 25 team you think it is, so not that great a win really.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 20, 2016, 10:03:26 PM
I expected NIT this year, sorry that so many of you were buying into hype
I also expected this even though I always hope for more. If you project last nights performance on the rest of the season, I think we are lucky to get an invite. Let's hope they bounce back sat.
I went into this season without thinking about the end of the year for once. I just thought this team would be fun to watch. This is not fun to watch.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 20, 2016, 10:03:26 PM
I expected NIT this year, sorry that so many of you were buying into hype that wasn't really there and on a player in particular who is really good, but not messiahonic. Still comes to down to how good is your point guard and we haven't had good point guard play in the last 2.5 years.....look at the results. Pretty simple formula.
I expect us to be a NCAA tournament team next year and back on our way, assuming a PG is procured and or one develops from this year's team. People just don't have patience anymore, but that's the way it is.
Chicos and I are on the same page. Must be a result of being students during the Dukiet years.
Quote from: MU86NC on January 20, 2016, 11:34:35 PM
H E is not a pro player!!!
I was thinking last night that the longer Wojo coaches him the less chance he has to be a pro.
Is that a realistic statement? No, but that was what I was feeling last night.
This is as detached from this team as I've felt since the Dean years. Not only are we not good, but I just don't appreciate this "brand" of basketball. I hate to be hard on the kids but Wojo's roster makeup leaves a lot to be desired and it has yet to resemble all I love about the traditional Warrior brand of basketball. I miss Buzz. I miss toughness, grit and all the cliche'd bullshiit we've loved for years about our squad.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 20, 2016, 10:00:49 PM
LOL. You are a young one if you think this is rock bottom. Try going to MU during the late 1980's.
Yes- mid 80's watching the program slowly devolve, and then the late 80's--rock bottom
In answering the original topic, the place was empty last night. Literally felt like a DePaul home game at Allstate arena. And it's going to go markedly down from here. Wojo can make as many youtube videos as he wants. Only consistent winning will put student and alumni butts back in the seats.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 12:05:24 AM
They are freshmen. FRESHMEN. Having half your scholarship players be freshmen is terrible for immediate production but great for future growth. This team will be much improved next season. As some famous guy said, "The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores." I seem to recall that guy being a pretty good coach.
Only problem I'm having with jumping on the optimism train, look at how last years freshmen are playing this year. Duane and Sandy have both regressed in season.
I get that Buzz left the cupboard bare and I get that it's a rebuilding project, however both last year and this year, Wojo's teams have regressed in season. They are demonstrably better at the beginning of the season then they are at the end and this year we haven't had an injury bug like last year. It is cause for significant concern
I can't believe I'm saying it, but we're now back in the "Are we sure Wojo can coach" phase of MU review and it sucks.
Additionally, the team took a gamble with this schedule hoping that feasting on cupcakes would prepare them for Big East. It clearly hasn't so the team isn't great AND the STH are pissed about paying good money for a bad product(competition level).
I hope no more than 6 people show up against Stetson. :o
I have been misquoting (misremembering?) myself as to season expectations. In September, I predicted 14 wins. So clearly, I had low expectations. I am disappointed but not surprised. No size, no experience, on the floor or on the sidelines...... a complete growing process. Sadly, we cannot skip steps.
Quote from: jsglow on January 21, 2016, 07:44:03 AM
In answering the original topic, the place was empty last night. Literally felt like a DePaul home game at Allstate arena. And it's going to go markedly down from here. Wojo can make as many youtube videos as he wants. Only consistent winning will put student and alumni butts back in the seats.
I don't totally agree. The place was relatively dead most of the night, but the students specifically and the fans generally did get fired up around the 8 minute mark of the 2nd half on and I thought made the BC a tough place to play again for a couple of minutes. Then the last two minutes of the game with turnovers on 4 of 6 possessions(and one of the non-TOs resulted in 2 missed FTs) sucked all the oxygen out of the place.
I do agree that Wojo has to start putting a winning product on the floor to restore faith....people aren't buying the marketing schtick right now.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 12:05:24 AM
They are freshmen. FRESHMEN. Having half your scholarship players be freshmen is terrible for immediate production but great for future growth. This team will be much improved next season. As some famous guy said, "The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores." I seem to recall that guy being a pretty good coach.
Oh stop it, TAMU, will ya.
There will be no common sense, no reason and no patience here.
Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2016, 07:49:38 AM
Oh stop it, TAMU, will ya.
There will be no common sense, no reason and no patience here.
Holy sh!t, MU82. Putting out fires left & right.
Your acting surprised that the fan base is upset? This is a message board. What did you expect after that crap
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 21, 2016, 07:51:08 AM
Holy sh!t, MU82. Putting out fires left & right.
Your acting surprised that the fan base is upset? This is a message board. What did you expect after that crap
We're doomed.
Quote from: tower912 on January 21, 2016, 07:45:30 AM
I have been misquoting (misremembering?) myself as to season expectations. In September, I predicted 14 wins. So clearly, I had low expectations. I am disappointed but not surprised. No size, no experience, on the floor or on the sidelines...... a complete growing process. Sadly, we cannot skip steps.
The thing about growing processes is that you expect to see growth...are we sure we're in the midst of growth?
Right now, we are seeing a young team and a young coach learning what it is to play in the Big East. Our bigs are thin, have slow feet, and don't elevate. And other than the slow non-jumpers, we are undersized and skinny at every position. So, they are learning what they are going to need to do in the offseason from a physical/skill development perspective. Theoretically, the coaching staff is learning what they are going to have to do from a recruiting (hint, more athletes, particularly widebodies and big switchables, please), teaching, and game prep standpoint. Perhaps Wojo is realizing he needs to shuffle his staff. If they are FAILING to learn, then they have failed.
Quote from: tower912 on January 21, 2016, 08:06:26 AM
Right now, we are seeing a young team and a young coach learning what it is to play in the Big East. Our bigs are thin, have slow feet, and don't elevate. And other than the slow non-jumpers, we are undersized and skinny at every position. So, they are learning what they are going to need to do in the offseason from a physical/skill development perspective. Theoretically, the coaching staff is learning what they are going to have to do from a recruiting (hint, more athletes, particularly widebodies and big switchables, please), teaching, and game prep standpoint. Perhaps Wojo is realizing he needs to shuffle his staff. If they are FAILING to learn, then they have failed.
I'll be honest from one game to the next, going back to last year, I'm not sure I see anyone learning anything.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on January 20, 2016, 09:51:37 PM
Exactly. The interest in the program is at Deane levels...at best.
C'mon Man.
Quote from: NickelDimer on January 21, 2016, 08:11:55 AM
I'll be honest from one game to the next, going back to last year, I'm not sure I see anyone learning anything.
I disagree. JJ and Duane played overall solid games. (Duane's grandmother died last week and I am willing to chalk X up to that) Heldt is making real progress. Cohen has shown flashes of really good play, but is struggling the last couple of weeks. It looks to me like the freshmen who have played big minutes are hitting a freshmen wall. It looks to me like Wojo is fighting the fight that Buzz fought his last year in not knowing what he was going get on a given night from most of his team. And finally, the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores. And the best thing about young coaches is that they (hopefully) learn what they don't know and become better coaches.
Quote from: ecompt on January 20, 2016, 11:15:48 PM
It is not just point guard....we have NO athletes who can play basketball in the Big East. We are slow, weak and cannot shoot. Put Jason Kidd on his prime on this team and it would still stink. To think they will be better next year is foolish.
Will agree to disagree on the athlete part. The shooters, agree....but that's also been a bugaboo for the last number of years. I think they will be better next year based on getting stronger, more experience, etc.
The only area I haven't seen improvement in that concerns me is rebounding. Henry and Luke do about everything you could ask them to do but our guards are terrible at it. Not sure how to fix it.
Quote from: tower912 on January 21, 2016, 08:22:32 AM
I disagree. JJ and Duane played overall solid games. (Duane's grandmother died last week and I am willing to chalk X up to that) Heldt is making real progress. Cohen has shown flashes of really good play, but is struggling the last couple of weeks. It looks to me like the freshmen who have played big minutes are hitting a freshmen wall. It looks to me like Wojo is fighting the fight that Buzz fought his last year in not knowing what he was going get on a given night from most of his team. And finally, the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores. And the best thing about young coaches is that they (hopefully) learn what they don't know and become better coaches.
Great. How about that guy that's supposed to be a lottery pick? How about the 7 footer everyone on this board last year thought would be NBA caliber by the end of the season? Lot's of thing wrong with the phony cowboy but he took JFBs and Jae's and hell, even Buycks and turned them into association-level players. And you're getting excited that JJ had a very average BE guard game... What recruit is going to be impressed by how Wojo is developing talent? And what do you think the product will look like when we're recruiting top-100 instead of top-10 classes?
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2016, 09:35:59 AM
Great. How about that guy that's supposed to be a lottery pick?
The guy who is MU's leading scorer and rebounder? He is literally the least of our concerns. The absolute least.
EDIT: Matt V. was tweeting last night that he thought he played a bit hurt last night too. Shin from last Saturday.
There are few things that I agree with Chico about. One was how good this team was going to be. The second is that you have to give a coach some time. He likes 5 years. OK. We are in year 2 of a ground-up rebuild. What I expect to happen is that Wojo is going to learn how to be a better coach. Sliding one chair over is a bigger leap than I think he expected. I expect for all of the young guys on the team to learn from this year's whuppin and use it as a motivational teaching tool in the offseason, getting serious in the weight room and about their shooting. I expect that Wojo is going re-evaluate the types of players he has been targeting and whether or not they can become physical enough to compete in the Big East.
I, too, worry that Henry's presence and progress and the results of a team with him on it will negatively affect recruiting. But that can't be helped now.
Quote from: mu03eng on January 21, 2016, 07:45:04 AM
Only problem I'm having with jumping on the optimism train, look at how last years freshmen are playing this year. Duane and Sandy have both regressed in season.
I agree that Sandy seems to be going in the wrong direction. I don't agree about Duane, though. He had a couple bad shooting games, but I think his overall game is getting better.
Right now, we don't have that PG who is a QB that runs the show, outside shooting or that 6-9 athletic gorilla that intimidates, grabs rebounds and defends the lane. Oh, and we're pretty inexperienced on the floor and on the bench. That's a lot of stuff we need.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 21, 2016, 09:43:49 AM
The guy who is MU's leading scorer and rebounder? He is literally the least of our concerns. The absolute least.
EDIT: Matt V. was tweeting last night that he thought he played a bit hurt last night too. Shin from last Saturday.
I'm not worried about HE, per say, but if I was a top-5 recruit looking at how coaches develop me into as a high of a pick as possible I'm not thinking Wojo has done a great job with his first go at it.
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2016, 10:04:53 AM
I'm not worried about HE, per say, but if I was a top-5 recruit looking at how coaches develop me into as a high of a pick as possible I'm not thinking Wojo has done a great job with his first go at it.
I think the bigger issue is that HE's experience shows you why lottery recruits should go to a team with more talent around them. Even though his playing time would be cut by a quarter or a third, he would likely look much more efficient playing on MSU or UK.
As I watch I wonder how this board feels how Henry would fit in Bluegrass Blue just a thought..
Quote from: crazyfannyboy54 on January 21, 2016, 10:18:57 AM
As I watch I wonder how this board feels how Henry would fit in Bluegrass Blue just a thought..
Why would anyone give a $hit what Henry looks like in other colors? Just a thought.
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2016, 09:35:59 AM
How about the 7 footer everyone on this board last year thought would be NBA caliber by the end of the season?
Who is "everyone"?
A few posters, most of them overly optimistic folks with good intentions, thought Luke could be an NBA player. The vast majority of Scoopers have never considered Luke to be NBA caliber and have said so.
Oh, and he's not 7 feet tall.
Ah, but who needs facts? They just get in the way of a perfectly good nonsensical rip-job.
Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2016, 10:25:14 AM
Who is "everyone"?
A few posters, most of them overly optimistic folks with good intentions, thought Luke could be an NBA player. The vast majority of Scoopers have never considered Luke to be NBA caliber and have said so.
Oh, and he's not 7 feet tall.
Ah, but who needs facts? They just get in the way of a perfectly good nonsensical rip-job.
The "6 foot 11 incher" just doesn't roll of the tongue the same way. Don't really care to go back and read through all those threads to name names but certainly more than a few regular scoopers were talking up Fishy's NBA potential. But either way - has he developed much over last year?
Quote from: 1SE on January 21, 2016, 10:47:31 AM
The "6 foot 11 incher" just doesn't roll of the tongue the same way. Don't really care to go back and read through all those threads to name names but certainly more than a few regular scoopers were talking up Fishy's NBA potential. But either way - has he developed much over last year?
I am not going to get into a debate with a person who is looking to pick a fight with everybody, who never posts unless he has reason to rip -- I don't recall seeing your brilliant analysis after the Providence game -- and who uses "un-facts" to support his arguments. You're not worth it.
I merely will correct your inaccuracies and will serve as a voice of reason to counterbalance those who think the program is doomed.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 12:05:24 AM
They are freshmen. FRESHMEN. Having half your scholarship players be freshmen is terrible for immediate production but great for future growth. This team will be much improved next season. As some famous guy said, "The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores." I seem to recall that guy being a pretty good coach.
Wasn't that during a time when frosh were ineligible to play varsity basketball? If so, the quote takes on an entirely different meaning.
Quote from: tower912 on January 21, 2016, 08:06:26 AM
Right now, we are seeing a young team and a young coach learning what it is to play in the Big East. Our bigs are thin, have slow feet, and don't elevate. And other than the slow non-jumpers, we are undersized and skinny at every position. So, they are learning what they are going to need to do in the offseason from a physical/skill development perspective. Theoretically, the coaching staff is learning what they are going to have to do from a recruiting (hint, more athletes, particularly widebodies and big switchables, please), teaching, and game prep standpoint. Perhaps Wojo is realizing he needs to shuffle his staff. If they are FAILING to learn, then they have failed.
Right now I am watching the Badgers play Penn. St. They also have a lot of young players. Since we beat them they have improved and we have not.
Quote from: bilsu on January 21, 2016, 07:40:12 PM
Right now I am watching the Badgers play Penn. St. They also have a lot of young players. Since we beat them they have improved and we have not.
Improved Gard play.
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 21, 2016, 11:25:28 AM
Wasn't that during a time when frosh were ineligible to play varsity basketball? If so, the quote takes on an entirely different meaning.
Not when he said the quote. Frosh were eligible at the end of als career
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on January 21, 2016, 07:18:56 AM
Chicos and I are on the same page. Must be a result of being students during the Dukiet years.
Those were some piss poor years....ugh
Quote from: bilsu on January 21, 2016, 07:40:12 PM
Right now I am watching the Badgers play Penn. St. They also have a lot of young players. Since we beat them they have improved and we have not.
They also have three juniors that played in the national championship game last year. They have WAY more experience than we do.
Here's my thing....say last night the shot doesn't go in? Say he misses the FT and we win in OT? Say we make our free throws down the stretch? We're all saying....phew, got lucky, but a win is a win and we move on. Nothing else.
Think about that for a second.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 11:21:13 PM
Here's my thing....say last night the shot doesn't go in? Say he misses the FT and we win in OT? Say we make our free throws down the stretch? We're all saying....phew, got lucky, but a win is a win and we move on. Nothing else.
Think about that for a second.
Agreed. No one would have reacted to a poorly played game, but the loss itself is worth blowing everything up, apparently.
It's funny because we could just as easily have lost several other 1 possession games this season.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 20, 2016, 10:00:49 PM
LOL. You are a young one if you think this is rock bottom. Try going to MU during the late 1980's.
+1.....'88
Plus, the benefit of being older is t have some perspective on time and the impact of one bad game or season - in 4 years from now it isn't going to matter. just like you don't fire your financial advisor after one bad quarter. AND - you don't get too emotional when a coach can't make 18-21 yr olds do exactly what he wishes.
Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2016, 10:51:21 AM
I am not going to get into a debate with a person who is looking to pick a fight with everybody, who never posts unless he has reason to rip -- I don't recall seeing your brilliant analysis after the Providence game -- and who uses "un-facts" to support his arguments. You're not worth it.
I merely will correct your inaccuracies and will serve as a voice of reason to counterbalance those who think the program is doomed.
Is Wojo doing a good job of developing his players? Seems like a pretty reasonable question.
Quote from: 1SE on January 22, 2016, 02:17:24 PM
Is Wojo doing a good job of developing his players? Seems like a pretty reasonable question.
On the two most interesting projects of note (Fish and Dwil)
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/duane_wilson_847093.html
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/luke_fischer_881676.html
basic numbers slightly up over last year (I'm sure some of the stat heads have the advanced numbers - but my guess is the same). BUT how inflated are this year's numbers by the cupcakes? By the end of the season will they be any better? Should they be better?
Quote from: 1SE on January 22, 2016, 02:17:24 PM
Is Wojo doing a good job of developing his players? Seems like a pretty reasonable question.
I would say Duane, Fisch, Wally, and JJJ are all better than last year. Sandy was better but has really fallen off this last month. The others are freshmen.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 21, 2016, 11:05:20 PM
They also have three juniors that played in the national championship game last year. They have WAY more experience than we do.
That is irrelevant to the situation. They have improved and we have not.
Quote from: bilsu on January 22, 2016, 03:17:34 PM
That is irrelevant to the situation. They have improved and we have not.
Of course experience is relevant. Cmon...
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 22, 2016, 03:18:59 PM
Of course experience is relevant. Cmon...
They were also experienced when we played them in December. For whatever reason they were playing poorly for Ryan. They continued to play poorly at first for Gard as he switched how they were going to play. Lately they have been playing better than they were. Lately we have been playing worse than we were. In both cases they are the same teams with the same players. UW had three final 4 players in December and have 3 final 4 players now. I do not see relative to them that that makes a difference. Same level of experience either way.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 22, 2016, 02:40:12 PM
I would say Duane, Fisch, Wally, and JJJ are all better than last year. Sandy was better but has really fallen off this last month. The others are freshmen.
Disagree on Duane, not sure on Fisch(is it actual improvement or just a healthy shoulder) but I agree on Wally and JjJ.
Traci was regressing during the cupcakes and it continues, Henry has seemed to plateau, and Haanif seems to be really good with a touch of inconsistency(so a freshmen)
Heldt has seemed to improve. Guess it's a bit of a mixed bag, guess I'll let your optimism win this one.
I do not believe anyone has talked about Wojo changing the starting lineup. Was this a good move or a sign of desperation?
Quote from: bilsu on January 22, 2016, 03:24:05 PM
They were also experienced when we played them in December. For whatever reason they were playing poorly for Ryan. They continued to play poorly at first for Gard as he switched how they were going to play. Lately they have been playing better than they were. Lately we have been playing worse than we were. In both cases they are the same teams with the same players. UW had three final 4 players in December and have 3 final 4 players now. I do not see relative to them that that makes a difference. Same level of experience either way.
Did I say it was the only factor? You said it was "irrelevant." I think it is a relevant factor as to why UW has improved since we have played them.
Quote from: bilsu on January 22, 2016, 03:28:59 PM
I do not believe anyone has talked about Wojo changing the starting lineup. Was this a good move or a sign of desperation?
Wally is our Scoop treasure. No one wants to talk about his DePaul game (0 pts, 2 reb, 1 foul).
Be interesting to see who starts vs the Johnnies
Quote from: bilsu on January 22, 2016, 03:28:59 PM
I do not believe anyone has talked about Wojo changing the starting lineup. Was this a good move or a sign of desperation?
There was no reason to be desperate going in to the DePaul game. I think he just figured those guys earned it. I like Wally, but as a change of pace energy guy off the bench. I think he should play more often than he had been (maybe four 3-5 minute spurts over the course of the game instead of one or two such spurts in the first half).
Otherwise JJJ is playing better than Sandy, so why not start him?
Quote from: bilsu on January 22, 2016, 03:28:59 PM
I do not believe anyone has talked about Wojo changing the starting lineup. Was this a good move or a sign of desperation?
Personally didnt like it. Thought it screwed up our substitution patterns.
One change I think I might want to see is starting Heldt. Im tired of Luke picking up two fouls in the first five minutes. Take a page out of Buzzs playbook.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 22, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Wally is our Scoop treasure. No one wants to talk about his DePaul game (0 pts, 2 reb, 1 foul).
Be interesting to see who starts vs the Johnnies
Wally is the classic 2nd string QB. Everybody wants to see him start ... until he actually has to start.
For every Tom Brady, there are hundreds of Jonathan Quinns and Matt Flynns.
Here's hoping Wally is at least a Nick Foles, and not a Henry Burris!
Quote from: bilsu on January 22, 2016, 03:17:34 PM
That is irrelevant to the situation. They have improved and we have not.
I could not disagree with your first sentence more. It is entirely relevant. Did they improve? Yes, they have. Is that because of their experience, not panicking as a result of that experience? In my view, yes. That leadership of having gone through the gauntlet helps tremendously, including the ability to overcome adversity, play better through the peaks and valleys.
We see it all the time in sports and certainly in the business world, as well as everyday life. Experience means so much in how you approach life, be it on the fields of play, the boardroom, dealing with your kids, etc.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 22, 2016, 08:46:44 PM
I could not disagree with your first sentence more. It is entirely relevant. Did they improve? Yes, they have. Is that because of their experience, not panicking as a result of that experience? In my view, yes. That leadership of having gone through the gauntlet helps tremendously, including the ability to overcome adversity, play better through the peaks and valleys.
We see it all the time in sports and certainly in the business world, as well as everyday life. Experience means so much in how you approach life, be it on the fields of play, the boardroom, dealing with your kids, etc.
IMHO these are the single greatest set of words you've written on this board.
*grammar edit
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 22, 2016, 08:46:44 PM
I could not disagree with your first sentence more. It is entirely relevant. Did they improve? Yes, they have. Is that because of their experience, not panicking as a result of that experience? In my view, yes. That leadership of having gone through the gauntlet helps tremendously, including the ability to overcome adversity, play better through the peaks and valleys.
We see it all the time in sports and certainly in the business world, as well as everyday life. Experience means so much in how you approach life, be it on the fields of play, the boardroom, dealing with your kids, etc.
I second this being very wise. '
The problem is, everyone always thinks they have adequate experience to speak/act/lead on topics they don't actually have adequate experience in.
You see that in kids that become uncoachable, because they think they know better or that handlers know better.
Fortunately, I don't think Wojo, brings in players like that. They are learning and getting the experience. They will just be more prone to ups and downs. So will UW, they are on an upswing right now, they will fall back down also.
I coach middle school girls basketball. Yes, I know, everybody is happy for me.
My first year at this school, 2013-14, we had two bad 8th-graders, two OK 7th-graders, four 6th-graders and a fifth-grader. Early on, these players had trouble hitting the rim on layups. We gradually, very slowly improved and finished 7-9.
Last season, my second at the school, our former 7th-graders were now good 8th-graders. Three of the former 6th-graders returned and were outstanding 7th-graders. The former 5th-grader, now a year older, was by far the best 3-point shooter in the league. We also got a new player, an athletic 7th-grader who was new to basketball but got better during the year. We finished 15-4 and made it to the conference title game for the first time in the school's 15-year history.
This season, those girls who were little 6th-graders two years earlier are now 8th-graders and are among the best players in the league. The girl who joined the team as a 7th-grader worked hard all offseason, went to camps, got private coaching and is now the best player in the league as an 8th-grader. The tiny 5th-grader is now a very good 7th-grader. We have played every team in the first half of our round-robin schedule (and a couple of them a second time) and are 10-0. None of the games have been close. We have some talent, we outhustle everybody and, at least as importantly, we have experience. WE UNDERSTAND THE GAME, AND WE PLAY AS A TEAM BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER FOR 2-3 YEARS.
Also, I was a rookie coach back in 2013-14. I have a little better clue now, too.
Yes, it's only middle school girls basketball. But it's still the same dynamic as men's college basketball. Young players grow into experienced players, and a newby coach also can establish himself/herself.
Or the nattering nabobs here can take the opposite view and say, "Young players NEVER improve ... and a young coach NEVER becomes better with experience ... and we're doomed."
Quote from: MU82 on January 22, 2016, 09:49:23 PM
I coach middle school girls basketball. Yes, I know, everybody is happy for me.
My first year at this school, 2013-14, we had two bad 8th-graders, two OK 7th-graders, four 6th-graders and a fifth-grader. Early on, these players had trouble hitting the rim on layups. We gradually, very slowly improved and finished 7-9.
Last season, my second at the school, our former 7th-graders were now good 8th-graders. Three of the former 6th-graders returned and were outstanding 7th-graders. The former 5th-grader, now a year older, was by far the best 3-point shooter in the league. We also got a new player, an athletic 7th-grader who was new to basketball but got better during the year. We finished 15-4 and made it to the conference title game for the first time in the school's 15-year history.
This season, those girls who were little 6th-graders two years earlier are now 8th-graders and are among the best players in the league. The girl who joined the team as a 7th-grader worked hard all offseason, went to camps, got private coaching and is now the best player in the league as an 8th-grader. The tiny 5th-grader is now a very good 7th-grader. We have played every team in the first half of our round-robin schedule (and a couple of them a second time) and are 10-0. None of the games have been close. We have some talent, we outhustle everybody and, at least as importantly, we have experience. WE UNDERSTAND THE GAME, AND WE PLAY AS A TEAM BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER FOR 2-3 YEARS.
Also, I was a rookie coach back in 2013-14. I have a little better clue now, too.
Yes, it's only middle school girls basketball. But it's still the same dynamic as men's college basketball. Young players grow into experienced players, and a newby coach also can establish himself/herself.
Or the nattering nabobs here can take the opposite view and say, "Young players NEVER improve ... and a young coach NEVER becomes better with experience ... and we're doomed."
So this year we make it to the championship game and next year we win it all? Sweet!
Quote from: MU82 on January 22, 2016, 09:49:23 PM
I coach middle school girls basketball. Yes, I know, everybody is happy for me.
My first year at this school, 2013-14, we had two bad 8th-graders, two OK 7th-graders, four 6th-graders and a fifth-grader. Early on, these players had trouble hitting the rim on layups. We gradually, very slowly improved and finished 7-9.
Last season, my second at the school, our former 7th-graders were now good 8th-graders. Three of the former 6th-graders returned and were outstanding 7th-graders. The former 5th-grader, now a year older, was by far the best 3-point shooter in the league. We also got a new player, an athletic 7th-grader who was new to basketball but got better during the year. We finished 15-4 and made it to the conference title game for the first time in the school's 15-year history.
This season, those girls who were little 6th-graders two years earlier are now 8th-graders and are among the best players in the league. The girl who joined the team as a 7th-grader worked hard all offseason, went to camps, got private coaching and is now the best player in the league as an 8th-grader. The tiny 5th-grader is now a very good 7th-grader. We have played every team in the first half of our round-robin schedule (and a couple of them a second time) and are 10-0. None of the games have been close. We have some talent, we outhustle everybody and, at least as importantly, we have experience. WE UNDERSTAND THE GAME, AND WE PLAY AS A TEAM BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER FOR 2-3 YEARS.
Also, I was a rookie coach back in 2013-14. I have a little better clue now, too.
Yes, it's only middle school girls basketball. But it's still the same dynamic as men's college basketball. Young players grow into experienced players, and a newby coach also can establish himself/herself.
Or the nattering nabobs here can take the opposite view and say, "Young players NEVER improve ... and a young coach NEVER becomes better with experience ... and we're doomed."
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/r2d/images/8/8b/My_grandma_s_cool_story_bro_e03cbf_3997646.png/revision/latest?cb=20150825045427)
Our kids have a positive attitude and that's a big deal. I don't see them being deluded in any way. It is a reality based team, just young, weren't we all once like that?
Quote from: bilsu on January 22, 2016, 03:28:59 PM
I do not believe anyone has talked about Wojo changing the starting lineup. Was this a good move or a sign of desperation?
Reaked of inexperience and uncertainty
Quote from: MU82 on January 22, 2016, 09:49:23 PM
I coach middle school girls basketball. Yes, I know, everybody is happy for me.
My first year at this school, 2013-14, we had two bad 8th-graders, two OK 7th-graders, four 6th-graders and a fifth-grader. Early on, these players had trouble hitting the rim on layups. We gradually, very slowly improved and finished 7-9.
Last season, my second at the school, our former 7th-graders were now good 8th-graders. Three of the former 6th-graders returned and were outstanding 7th-graders. The former 5th-grader, now a year older, was by far the best 3-point shooter in the league. We also got a new player, an athletic 7th-grader who was new to basketball but got better during the year. We finished 15-4 and made it to the conference title game for the first time in the school's 15-year history.
This season, those girls who were little 6th-graders two years earlier are now 8th-graders and are among the best players in the league. The girl who joined the team as a 7th-grader worked hard all offseason, went to camps, got private coaching and is now the best player in the league as an 8th-grader. The tiny 5th-grader is now a very good 7th-grader. We have played every team in the first half of our round-robin schedule (and a couple of them a second time) and are 10-0. None of the games have been close. We have some talent, we outhustle everybody and, at least as importantly, we have experience. WE UNDERSTAND THE GAME, AND WE PLAY AS A TEAM BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER FOR 2-3 YEARS.
Also, I was a rookie coach back in 2013-14. I have a little better clue now, too.
Yes, it's only middle school girls basketball. But it's still the same dynamic as men's college basketball. Young players grow into experienced players, and a newby coach also can establish himself/herself.
Or the nattering nabobs here can take the opposite view and say, "Young players NEVER improve ... and a young coach NEVER becomes better with experience ... and we're doomed."
Teal?
Quote from: NickelDimer on January 23, 2016, 08:44:00 AM
Reaked of inexperience and uncertainty
Or it was a sign that he is willing to change things up and reward guys who play hard/well.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 08:46:34 AM
The only area I haven't seen improvement in that concerns me is rebounding. Henry and Luke do about everything you could ask them to do but our guards are terrible at it. Not sure how to fix it.
This is the most concerning part of this team for me. If you watch(ed) that dePaul game. Traci, Sandy(several times in several games), and Duane allowed their man to get past them with out even boxing out. I dont know if they dont understand this concept or if they think HE will just take care of it. Sandy had two fouls pushing his guy in the back after he didnt box him out.....adn that was DePaul. My biggest problem is Sandy does this consistently and I dont see Wojo get upset or correct the problem the next game. Watch Sandy box out toinght--if he decides to.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 23, 2016, 09:01:58 AM
Or it was a sign that he is willing to change things up and reward guys who play hard/well.
Last season we complained when Wojo didnt change lineup. This season we complain when he does!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 23, 2016, 01:39:26 PM
Last season we complained when Wojo didnt change lineup. This season we complain when he does!
The Beauty of our Board. God Bless Them.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 21, 2016, 10:57:11 PM
Not when he said the quote. Frosh were eligible at the end of als career
the NCAA allowed freshman eligibility in basketball effective with the
1972-73 academic year.