1. That first half comeback was the most impressive basketball MU has played all year.
2. To finish it, Duane had to go off. He was just off. Ah, well.
3. In the end, villanova is a top 10 team, playing in their little gym that they never lose in. No complaints.
4. On to Xavier.
This sucks, I hate losing to these guys. Way to many 3's and guards standing around on offense.
Bummer that this second half was extremely predictable.
But the 1st half was great
I feel like my stream is 30 min behind. WTF
Jeff Anderson has something against MU/Wojo.
By far the worst stretch I have seen. We launch double digit there's, make none, and then score on multiple back to back possessions just by walking it in.
We're huge. Use our size! Come on guys!
Aint over yet
Will you post more thoughts when the game is over?
What is up with The Jeff Anderson jog up the court? He does an almost dance up the court on some possessions.
Is that really just to draw more attention?
It was over. The only question is the margin and whether MU covers.
5. Really could've used JJJ tonight. For his sake I hope he's better soon.
6. A lot of mistakes......can't wait until they are sophomores
Good effort, lots of positives
Just couldn't make open shots mid way through the second half. Got good looks and if they fell it would have been a different ball game. I like this MU team. They have some swagger to them. Should be a fun one Saturday.
5. Why are we sitting Fisher when Ochefu is out!?
6. Why are we throwing up threes while Ochefu is out!?
Other random thoughts
- Those turnovers, after good steals in the press, are soul crushing.
- It's been about 4 seasons since Marquette has had a good outside shooter.
- Can't believe Villanova is about to cover the spread.
Agree, that comeback was impressive in first half. Gives them some sort of confidence in future that they can do it. Then another 10-0 run in second half, but way too late. Had opportunities to cut lead even more, but turnovers, turnovers, turnovers.
Terrible coaching in second half. with Ochefu in foul trouble and then hurt, MU continued to jack up threes, at one point 0 for 11. Nova had a 6ft6 and 6ft7 guys in and MU still shooting threes and not going inside to Henry/Luke. TV commentators kept saying the same thing. Don't get it, especially with MU's poor percentage.
Fouls early in half caught up with them, this team has to cut down on turnovers somehow. They lead BE and probably up there in Division I rankings also. Just killing them.
Xavier going to be hard to beat with Farr/Reynolds inside, but maybe MU will change up its gameplan.
Henry is 4 for 18 from three in BE play now. 22%.
and Eddie Corbett will not win this one
Quote from: nyg on January 13, 2016, 09:51:50 PM
Terrible coaching in second half. with Ochefu in foul trouble and then hurt, MU continued to jack up threes, at one point 0 for 11. Nova had a 6ft6 and 6ft7 guys in and MU still shooting threes and not going inside to Henry/Luke. TV commentators kept saying the same thing. Don't get it, especially with MU's poor percentage.
+1000
Why we went away from inside I can't fathom epecially with the big guy hurting
Marquette gets 3 happy.
Thought Nova really adjusted in the second half to prevent the inside play of MU. Make those very open outside shots and this is a different ballgame. TOs and missed shots in the 2nd caused the loss.
Get ready for X
Quote from: nyg on January 13, 2016, 09:51:50 PM
Terrible coaching in second half.
Jay Wright ran circles around Woj in the 2nd half. Another 1 half game.
Villanova cruises to victory,Jay said his guys let up on the gas.
Quote from: PTM on January 13, 2016, 09:36:06 PM
Jeff Anderson has something against MU/Wojo.
He's a POS. Awful referee.
I also question the 3's in the second half but then again the foul problems were a real issue. Not sure freshman can drive much with 4 fouls.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 13, 2016, 09:55:43 PM
Thought Nova really adjusted in the second half to prevent the inside play of MU. Make those very open outside shots and this is a different ballgame. TOs and missed shots in the 2nd caused the loss.
Get ready for X
No inside play whatsoever in second half. I believe Henry had 2 points and 1 rebound. That is brutal.
Frustrating. All the years we have been so undersized, now we have a couple of legit bigs and can't seem to utilize them well. How does Luke go a whole game and get 2 boards? Don't see how a college program can have much success in this day and age without using the 3 as a weapon. Arrrgh.
Our SG (Duane) needs to make some shots. Worst shooting % on team among guys playing over 10 minutes a game except for Traci.
'Nova went zone to keep us out of the lane because we were killing them there. Good adjustment on their part. We played well and just didn't have enough at the end. Some poor finishing, and once the inside got shut off, our guys got frustrated and jacked ill-chosen threes. Still, they fought back well in the first half. This team is still far from a finished product. We could very well beat 'Nova when they come to the BC next month.
My Thoughts:
- It took a bit of Philly home cookin' to bring out the Traci Carter we want and need. Nice to see him assert himself. He needs to play at this level for the remainder of the season.
- The rest of the team didn't know how to react to the more active Traci.
- No idea what happened mid way through 2nd half. Down 5, playing OK, Ochefu out... never was there a greater opportunity to take over the game but the whole team (and apparently the whole coaching staff) simultaneously lost the plot and played 10 minutes of the worst basketball of the year. ???
- I have a new least favorite ref now that Jim Burr is gone. In fact, the whole crew was pretty sloppy. Henry's charge in the first half (which should have been a no-call) - the ref was signaling before there was even contact!
We were not supposed to win this one, but to play as well as we did in the first half and follow it with the worst play of the year in the 2nd half is disappointing.
Quote from: WarriorFan on January 13, 2016, 10:24:46 PM
- I have a new least favorite ref now that Jim Burr is gone. In fact, the whole crew was pretty sloppy. Henry's charge in the first half (which should have been a no-call) - the ref was signaling before there was even contact!
Officiating in the new Big east is as bad as it was in the old Big East and that's saying something. Main problem- most of these guys seem to think we pay to see them.
MU is the worst offense in Big East. Needs major change up and is in need of identity.
We have two really, really tall forwards constantly hanging out on the perimeter, with one indiscriminately chucking up 3's. That's a big problem, in my opinion
Quote from: MUsoxfan on January 13, 2016, 11:01:42 PM
We have two really, really tall forwards constantly hanging out on the perimeter, with one indiscriminately chucking up 3's. That's a big problem, in my opinion
I don't mind the high screening action with Luke, but Henry's freelancing really kills the flow of the offense.
We have guards who can penetrate and bigs who can finish, but we rarely drive and dish. We should be doing that all the time. Cheatham and Carter look a little better every game.
We are very close to being quite good. The players just need to understand what their strengths are a little better. I agree that Henry does not look like he is running the same offense as everyone else.
I wish Fischer (5/6) & Cheatham (4/14) would have flipped shot attempts tonight. Still not sure how Luke only grabbed 2 boards
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 13, 2016, 11:17:12 PM
I wish Fischer (5/6) & Cheatham (4/14) would have flipped shot attempts tonight. Still not sure how Luke only grabbed 2 boards
He was constantly being moved off his spots, even by guards. Just isn't physical enough.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 13, 2016, 11:21:13 PM
He was constantly being moved off his spots, even by guards. Just isn't physical enough.
Completely agree. Especially with Ochefu out for such a long period of time, there were rebounds to be had.
Quote from: warriorfred on January 13, 2016, 09:51:21 PM
Other random thoughts
- It's been about 4 seasons since Marquette has had a good outside shooter.
Carlino?
Also what is Wally's +-? It has to be massive. He was in during the big comeback, and barley saw him in 2nd half.
Each Jay Wright opponent coach not to mention every fan base has said to themselves---we've got bigs they are playing with four guards right now this is our time to exploit their weaknesses.
Guess what? Another Nova victory.
Nova in no way will be able to compete with the size of Georgetown. ::)
Quote from: theburreffect2 on January 13, 2016, 11:44:36 PM
Carlino?
The offense with Carlino was brutal for much of last season. With teams playing-off Derrick Wilson it was effectively 4 on 5. Unfortunately, Carlino was not given the space. Sometimes he would go off, but most of the time he was effectively neutralized ( I watched a replay of his winning shot against Creighton and he's shooting over/around 2 defenders).
But you do raise a good point, it would be nice to have Carlino on this year's team.
I don't understand the negativity. Villanova is ranked where they are for a reason. They were playing in a building where they haven't lost for years. MU played their best 10 minutes of the year. MU isn't experienced enough and doesn't have enough weapons to expect to beat Villanova in Philly. It's ok to root for the upset (or the powerball win) but there is no reason to beat this team up when the game ended pretty much like everyone expected. MU played hard. They did some good things. In the end, 'Nova was better. What more does anyone expect?
Quote from: tower912 on January 14, 2016, 07:43:53 AM
I don't understand the negativity. Villanova is ranked where they are for a reason. They were playing in a building where they haven't lost for years. MU played their best 10 minutes of the year. MU isn't experienced enough and doesn't have enough weapons to expect to beat Villanova in Philly. It's ok to root for the upset (or the powerball win) but there is no reason to beat this team up when the game ended pretty much like everyone expected. MU played hard. They did some good things. In the end, 'Nova was better. What more does anyone expect?
Well said. I feel mostly positive about the game. They are the older and better team, but we put up a fight against them.
It's shocking that there is so much negativity on an internet message board...... I never thought I'd live to see the day.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400840287
Box score.
I blame ChiTown for calling "dagger" with ten minutes left in the game and us being only nine points behind.
Totally jinxed us.
Quote from: tower912 on January 14, 2016, 07:43:53 AM
I don't understand the negativity. Villanova is ranked where they are for a reason. They were playing in a building where they haven't lost for years. MU played their best 10 minutes of the year. MU isn't experienced enough and doesn't have enough weapons to expect to beat Villanova in Philly. It's ok to root for the upset (or the powerball win) but there is no reason to beat this team up when the game ended pretty much like everyone expected. MU played hard. They did some good things. In the end, 'Nova was better. What more does anyone expect?
Agreed.
I thought they showed good improvement when it came to turnovers and rebounding.
MU settled for jumpers and they weren't falling. That's fixable.
my thought was the story of the night is really too many fouls on mu...and too many free throws for nova.
i'm sure wojo would have liked to have gone inside a little more, but MU is having a hard time feeding the post because luke plays weak and because teams aren't worried about MU hitting 3's.
fischer's rebounds concern me...not sure how he's not picking up some points off of offensive rebounds...especially against teams like nova and st. johns. a handful of rebounds a game from our center isn't going to cut it, and while i see this year as a building year, i worry that his growth is limited. i can see development in our guards that gets me excited for the next few years...all could be lost if we have nothing reliable down low after HE leaves.
the flagrant on Carter was for the high elbow right? not the ninja kick? If that kick was on purpose he should look at a career in the UFC
Quote from: LAMUfan on January 14, 2016, 08:24:44 AM
the flagrant on Carter was for the high elbow right? not the ninja kick? If that kick was on purpose he should look at a career in the UFC
It was on the kick.
Quote from: tower912 on January 14, 2016, 07:43:53 AM
I don't understand the negativity. Villanova is ranked where they are for a reason. They were playing in a building where they haven't lost for years. MU played their best 10 minutes of the year. MU isn't experienced enough and doesn't have enough weapons to expect to beat Villanova in Philly. It's ok to root for the upset (or the powerball win) but there is no reason to beat this team up when the game ended pretty much like everyone expected. MU played hard. They did some good things. In the end, 'Nova was better. What more does anyone expect?
Exactly. I also don't understand the coaching comments regarding the second half. Yes the offense was jacking up too many threes. Wojo wasn't doing that. The players were. To me that is an experience and toughness issue. Jacking up threes is the easy thing to do. It is what Nova wanted us to do. Driving the ball...penetrating the zone...that is hard work against an experienced team.
I actually came away from that game fairly encouraged. A month ago we got shredded by an experienced Iowa team on our home court. Last night we were within a basket of a top ten team on the road with about 10 minutes to go in the game. A game that included an impressive first half comeback that could have gone the other way and lead to Iowa, Part 2.
That's growth. That's what you want to see. I hope we have a nice big crowd for Xavier Saturday because if they can string together two halves like the first half, they will win that game.
The good:
We showed we could play with the best in our conference.
Traci Carter showed why he is starting.
The bad:
Almost doesn't count in basketball.
The Ugly:
We're still making freshmen mistakes. We're showing a much improved basketball team that's competitive with our conference but we're not going to make the tournament if we don't play 40 minutes every time out.
We should change our motto from "Win Every Day" to "Win Every Moment."
Quote from: warriorfred on January 13, 2016, 09:51:21 PM
Other random thoughts
- Those turnovers, after good steals in the press, are soul crushing.
- It's been about 4 seasons since Marquette has had a good outside shooter.
- Can't believe Villanova is about to cover the spread.
Does anyone else feel like we're simply this one piece short of a Final Four team?
I can't help but to think that if Steve Novak was 10 years younger, we would be in conversation for a natty right now. Look what happened when the 3's were falling in the first half. Heck, if the team's 3FG% falls any further, I might even consider taking back Mike Knsella and rotating him in at the 2 or 3.
Quote from: Benny B on January 14, 2016, 08:46:46 AM
Does anyone else feel like we're simply this one piece short of a Final Four team?
I can't help but to think that if Steve Novak was 10 years younger, we would be in conversation for a natty right now. Look what happened when the 3's were falling in the first half. Heck, if the team's 3FG% falls any further, I might even consider taking back Mike Knsella and rotating him in at the 2 or 3.
Wes Matthews at the 3. Yummahumma.
Quote from: Benny B on January 14, 2016, 08:46:46 AM
Does anyone else feel like we're simply this one piece short of a Final Four team?
I can't help but to think that if Steve Novak was 10 years younger, we would be in conversation for a natty right now. Look what happened when the 3's were falling in the first half. Heck, if the team's 3FG% falls any further, I might even consider taking back Mike Knsella and rotating him in at the 2 or 3.
Totally agree, was texting with the pod partner last night....if Carlino was on this team, we're a top 25 team. Was hoping Duane would be that guy this year but his 3pt shooting is just far too streaky.
Quote from: Benny B on January 14, 2016, 08:46:46 AM
Does anyone else feel like we're simply this one piece short of a Final Four team?
Absolutely not. Look at the last Final Four team Marquette had. That team had a great balance of experience, talent, players who fit into specific roles.
Even if you had Carlino on this team, who is the Robert Jackson? Who is the Travis Diener? Who is your Dwyane Wade?
I can see this team growing into a Final Four team if the right pieces are added. There is really a great core of guards / forwards to build around. But this year even with a missing piece added? Not a chance.
Last in the conference in offensive rebounding. Seems like the coaching staff has emphasized getting back on defense, at the expense of probably a couple of easy put backs against the zone. I felt all of our made 3s came last night from feeds inside the lane, whether they were a guard's penetration or throw back from Henry or Luke. I have no problem with the Carter tech if that was called every time it happens. If Hart or Arcidiacono does it, they don't call it, but felt the officials wanted to make a statement on the freshman. Carter should go out for soccer, that was the most well placed kick, "on purpose" as he's falling down. Again, don't have a problem with it, if they called every blatant elbow, like the one we didn't get against Providence.
I saw a team that could hang with best team in the conference in their hellhole of a home court for 32 minutes without one of their key bench players. Unfortunately there was a brutal 8 minute stretch in there. By the end of the season (+ a healthy JJJ), this team should be able to hang with nova for 40 minutes. Maybe not win, but play like they belong.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 14, 2016, 08:56:24 AM
Absolutely not. Look at the last Final Four team Marquette had. That team had a great balance of experience, talent, players who fit into specific roles.
Even if you had Carlino on this team, who is the Robert Jackson? Who is the Travis Diener? Who is your Dwyane Wade?
I can see this team growing into a Final Four team if the right pieces are added. There is really a great core of guards / forwards to build around. But this year even with a missing piece added? Not a chance.
If we had MU's 2003 team going against the competition today, everyone would be talking about Marquette's impending 2016 National Championship as if they were Kentucky in 2012.
That said -- again, look what happened last night in the first half when they were hitting 3s. There was no Travis Diener, there was no Dwayne Wade, there was no Robert Jackson... but they went into the half leading by 1 after being down 16 just a few minutes prior... MU completely dominated a top 10 team in their tiny gym for 10 minutes of that game by making shots from distance.
Some brief thoughts from the Pavilion stands:
1. Traci Carter played like he wanted to prove someone wrong. Loved the fire and passion - but it caused him to play a little outside of himself at times. Really good teaching moment for him. I was glad to see Wojo talking him through it. Crowd did not like Traci by the end of the game.
2. Our two most vocal players on the court were Fischer and Cohen. I expected Fischer but Cohen surprised me a bit.
3. Cheatham is going to be a good one. Still green but in person he plays with a poise beyond his age that doesn't necessarily come across on TV.
4a. The crowd was really into the game - booing Wojo, Traci, and the refs any chance they got. Got the sense they're not used to calls going against them in that building.
4b. After Traci's 2nd T, a grown man a few rows behind me stood up and called Traci a P.O.S. loudly, while the gym was quiet. I stood up, turned around, and put him in his place. He was quiet after that.
5. Overall, really fun place to see a game despite very small seats in the upper section. Has the feel of a high school gym.
6. Jimmy Butler was there sitting courtside next to Joakim Noah. A bunch of Nova fans we're taking pictures with JFB.
Quote from: tower912 on January 14, 2016, 07:43:53 AM
I don't understand the negativity. Villanova is ranked where they are for a reason. They were playing in a building where they haven't lost for years. MU played their best 10 minutes of the year. MU isn't experienced enough and doesn't have enough weapons to expect to beat Villanova in Philly. It's ok to root for the upset (or the powerball win) but there is no reason to beat this team up when the game ended pretty much like everyone expected. MU played hard. They did some good things. In the end, 'Nova was better. What more does anyone expect?
Yo, word. We'll give them a really good shot at our place.
There was one Marquette fan right behind the Villanova bench. Was that the Scooper who's daughter goes to 'Nova?
Quote from: Benny B on January 14, 2016, 09:16:32 AM
That said -- again, look what happened last night in the first half when they were hitting 3s. There was no Travis Diener, there was no Dwayne Wade, there was no Robert Jackson... but they went into the half leading by 1 after being down 16 just a few minutes prior... MU completely dominated a top 10 team in their tiny gym for 10 minutes of that game by making shots from distance.
Winning a half at Villanova is orders of magnitude easier than getting to a Final Four. While it is more certainly an accomplishment, it isn't "one piece away from a Final Four" accomplishment.
Quote from: Nephew on January 14, 2016, 09:17:10 AM
4b. After Traci's 2nd T, a grown man a few rows behind me stood up and called Traci a P.O.S. loudly, while the gym was quiet. I stood up, turned around, and put him in his place. He was quiet after that.
Nobody effs with Nephew. Not even in Philly
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 14, 2016, 08:56:24 AM
Absolutely not. Look at the last Final Four team Marquette had. That team had a great balance of experience, talent, players who fit into specific roles.
Even if you had Carlino on this team, who is the Robert Jackson? Who is the Travis Diener? Who is your Dwyane Wade?
I can see this team growing into a Final Four team if the right pieces are added. There is really a great core of guards / forwards to build around. But this year even with a missing piece added? Not a chance.
Agree. We need not only better shooting but better rebounding and more experience. Wojo's laying a solid foundation and the good times are coming, I think. This team is a big step in the right direction, but too many things will have to go right for us this year. I think we will be very good by the end of the year, but will probably have not done enough before then to get an NCAA bid. We will be a tough out in the BET.
As usual, I skipped Scoop until the morning after a loss because I don't need the negative karma before bedtime!
When the game ended, I actually was quite encouraged. We had a couple of awful stretches but we battled and battled and had some very nice stretches, too.
The first-half comeback was a thing of beauty. We then fell behind quickly in the second half only to respond again and pull within 50-49. We then played poorly while Nova played well and it was over ... except it wasn't, because our lads again made it interesting.
We're just not quite good enough and, mostly, not quite mature enough to win this game. Unlike Providence, which is a bit of a poser, Nova is a legit top-10 team with a proven great coach and an incredible homecourt advantage -- and we made them sweat a little. We're getting better, and that includes the coach.
On a more narrow-focused level, this game -- again -- underscored how important 3-point shooting is. It gives a team a chance. It can't be the be-all and end-all (and Nova's reliance on it might be its end-all come tourney time), but a team has to be able to make 3s. When we hit a few, we rallied. When we threw bricks, we fell behind.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 13, 2016, 11:51:44 PM
Each Jay Wright opponent coach not to mention every fan base has said to themselves---we've got bigs they are playing with four guards right now this is our time to exploit their weaknesses.
Guess what? Another Nova victory.
Nova in no way will be able to compete with the size of Georgetown. ::)
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 13, 2016, 11:51:44 PM
Each Jay Wright opponent coach not to mention every fan base has said to themselves---we've got bigs they are playing with four guards right now this is our time to exploit their weaknesses.
Guess what? Another Nova victory.
Nova in no way will be able to compete with the size of Georgetown. ::)
Except for the NCAA tournament, where Nova usually gets shown the door early.
Quote from: MUDPT on January 14, 2016, 09:02:11 AM
Last in the conference in offensive rebounding. Seems like the coaching staff has emphasized getting back on defense, at the expense of probably a couple of easy put backs against the zone. I felt all of our made 3s came last night from feeds inside the lane, whether they were a guard's penetration or throw back from Henry or Luke. I have no problem with the Carter tech if that was called every time it happens. If Hart or Arcidiacono does it, they don't call it, but felt the officials wanted to make a statement on the freshman. Carter should go out for soccer, that was the most well placed kick, "on purpose" as he's falling down. Again, don't have a problem with it, if they called every blatant elbow, like the one we didn't get against Providence.
When you miss so many 3's, you should get more offensive rebounds. To your point, on almost every missed three, Nova had 4 or 5 players crashing, we had one or none. And the two times that I noticed Luke or HE back tipping, there was no one there because they were all back on D. Clearly a coaching decision that cut back on their run outs, but hurt our rebounding.
Quote from: Nephew on January 14, 2016, 09:17:10 AM
a grown man a few rows behind me stood up and called Traci a P.O.S. loudly, while the gym was quiet. I stood up, turned around, and put him in his place. He was quiet after that.
Nothing like a good old fashioned ass kicking, a ina?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 13, 2016, 09:34:39 PM
I feel like my stream is 30 min behind. WTF
did you try turning on a faucet?
Quote from: Benny B on January 14, 2016, 08:46:46 AM
Does anyone else feel like we're simply this one piece short of a Final Four team?
I can't help but to think that if Steve Novak was 10 years younger, we would be in conversation for a natty right now. Look what happened when the 3's were falling in the first half. Heck, if the team's 3FG% falls any further, I might even consider taking back Mike Knsella and rotating him in at the 2 or 3.
no way.
Quote from: brandx on January 13, 2016, 10:22:09 PM
Our SG (Duane) needs to make some shots. Worst shooting % on team among guys playing over 10 minutes a game except for Traci.
Not accurate. Duane and henry are both at 42%, and Duane is better at 3 at 34% than henry who is at 24%. Carter is at 32% and 30% on threes, while JJJ is at 32% on threes. Get your facts straight for once Brandie. Just the facts Ma'm.
If you want to criticize somebody for poor shooting, maybe you need to share the love with Henry who has taken many more shots than anybody else on the team, with a 3point % that approaches Derrick.
Quote from: MUDPT on January 14, 2016, 09:02:11 AM
Last in the conference in offensive rebounding.
Consider me petrified of next year if HENBA goes pro. going to need a couple grad transfers / juco bigs.
Anyone know how many scholarships are open for 2016? And does Bailey's scholarship count against the number even though he won't be here for 2 years, because I think he already signed.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 14, 2016, 12:48:45 PM
Consider me petrified of next year if HENBA goes pro. going to need a couple grad transfers / juco bigs.
Anyone know how many scholarships are open for 2016? And does Bailey's scholarship count against the number even though he won't be here for 2 years, because I think he already signed.
Bailey won't count until he arrives. There will likely be two open.
IF Woj can land a bruiser at the 4, I like the makeup of the roster next year, even without Henry. In some ways, Hank's absence might improve the flow of the offense.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 14, 2016, 12:50:54 PM
Bailey won't count until he arrives. There will likely be two open.
That's huge! Much appreciated & glad to hear
Well we played well in the first half and they got my hopes up; they just stopped playing in the second.
Quote from: tower912 on January 14, 2016, 07:54:42 AM
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400840287
Box score.
The PF line tells it all. Another learning experience, it ain't over till it's over.
Our best hope is to avoid first round of the BE Tournament, and get to the final game and that will take some lessons learned. As an example, I don't expect to see any more technicals for taunting.
Does anybody know exactly what Carter said and to whom he said it?
Just curious.
Quote from: mu03eng on January 14, 2016, 08:51:13 AM
Totally agree, was texting with the pod partner last night....if Carlino was on this team, we're a top 25 team. Was hoping Duane would be that guy this year but his 3pt shooting is just far too streaky.
4 of our 5 losses have been double digit - 10, 15, 20 and 28. Maybe we beat Belmont with Matt, but maybe we lose to LSU, ASU, UW or Providence, too. Right now Sagarin has us ranked 92nd, just behind Akron, Stoney Brook and UC-Irvine. To think that subbing Matt Carlino for Duane Wilson puts us in the top 10 is a bridge too far.
They will learn from this....second tier teams make a run then squander it with three attempts they shouldnt take and forget fundamentals. I see st. Johns and depauls of the world do this.
But we'll get better....our D was decent and a strong finish will beat the butlers, georgetowns, creightons, and providence once or twice.
As for nova, they may have won anyway if we played right. Lets see what happens when tjey come here?!
Nobody currently wears #33 for MU. Seems like JFB could have slipped in a hooped a little and helped us out, since he was already all shoed up for it. No one would have been any the wiser.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2016, 01:34:22 PM
4 of our 5 losses have been double digit - 10, 15, 20 and 28. Maybe we beat Belmont with Matt, but maybe we lose to LSU, ASU, UW or Providence, too. Right now Sagarin has us ranked 92nd, just behind Akron, Stoney Brook and UC-Irvine. To think that subbing Matt Carlino for Duane Wilson puts us in the top 10 is a bridge too far.
Exactly. Maybe Carlino has one of his great shooting games and helps us beat Providence easily. Or maybe his shot is off -- as he occasionally was last season -- and we'd have been a hell of a lot better off having Duane make that athletic layup for the winner. Carlino couldn't have even dreamt about attempting that shot.
Those who think this team is one OK college player away from the Final Four are hitting the weed a little too hard.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2016, 01:47:28 PM
Exactly. Maybe Carlino has one of his great shooting games and helps us beat Providence easily. Or maybe his shot is off -- as he occasionally was last season -- and we'd have been a hell of a lot better off having Duane make that athletic layup for the winner. Carlino couldn't have even dreamt about attempting that shot.
Those who think this team is one OK college player away from the Final Four are hitting the weed a little too hard.
Carlino provides two things that this team desperately needs: reliable 3 point shooting(and the spacing it provides) and experience.
This team really struggled in games they lost because they didn't know how to play the game or have the experience to overcome the adversity. This will have to be one of those things we disagree on because it can't be proven, but Carlino's presence makes the team better not just his ability.
It's more than just Carlino stats for Duane stats, its the intangibles around leadership and experience that matter. If a team has the talent to win on the road against Providence they have the talent to beat Iowa and Belmont at home....intangibles have to be a lot of the difference.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2016, 01:47:28 PM
Carlino couldn't have even dreamt about attempting that shot.
Pffft. Remember the one where he got stuck in the lane and threw it up over his head backwards for the swish?
Quote from: mu03eng on January 14, 2016, 02:12:36 PM
It's more than just Carlino stats for Duane stats, its the intangibles around leadership and experience that matter. If a team has the talent to win on the road against Providence they have the talent to beat Iowa and Belmont at home....intangibles have to be a lot of the difference.
Cuts both ways - if a team has the talent to lose by 20 to Seton Hall at home they have the talent to lose to UW on the road or to LSU or ASU on a neutral floor. And in fact they almost did. We're 12-5, but if you look at our coin flip games we could be anywhere from 8-9 to 13-4 - a long, long way from a top 10 team. Much farther away than a Matt Carlino. More like a Kris Dunn.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2016, 02:41:38 PM
Cuts both ways - if a team has the talent to lose by 20 to Seton Hall at home they have the talent to lose to UW on the road or to LSU or ASU on a neutral floor. And in fact they almost did. We're 12-5, but if you look at our coin flip games we could be anywhere from 8-9 to 13-4 - a long, long way from a top 10 team. Much farther away than a Matt Carlino. More like a Kris Dunn.
That kind of reinforces my point. Talent isn't the problem with this team, experience and leadership are. Carlino brings both of those things with at worst a net neutral on talent.
Matt shot 42% from three. He would help this team.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2016, 01:32:07 PM
Does anybody know exactly what Carter said and to whom he said it?
Just curious.
A friend watching on TV - the same feed as everyone else - said that Traci "got in Jay Wright's face after he sank it".
From the stands it wasn't exactly clear what happened once it went in, only that Traci was 6 inches away from the Nova bench when he buried that 3. Had Traci not already been in that corner I'm guessing there would not have been an issue. In part, Traci got in Wright's face because he was already right next to him.
What a shot though ...
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2016, 01:32:07 PM
Does anybody know exactly what Carter said and to whom he said it?
Just curious.
He had read the new WIAA guidelines earlier in the day, so he looked at Jay and said: "I highly respect your recruiting skills and suspect you had perfectly valid reasons for not offering me a scholarship, but perhaps that shot might make you a bit regretful."
The official thought "regretful" was kinda harsh.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 14, 2016, 03:42:47 PM
He had read the new WIAA guidelines earlier in the day, so he looked at Jay and said: "I highly respect your recruiting skills and suspect you had perfectly valid reasons for not offering me a scholarship, but perhaps that shot might make you a bit regretful."
The official thought "regretful" was kinda harsh.
Well done
Quote from: brandx on January 14, 2016, 03:20:26 PM
Matt shot 42% from three. He would help this team.
Experience would help this team.
Experienced players know the importance of capitalizing on every possession. Experienced players work together as a team, something greater than the sum of its parts. Experienced players know what a good shot is. Experienced players produce more consistent results, both over the course of a game and over the course of a season.
What we're seeing with this team is a classic demonstration of the one and only proven method for gaining experience: learning things the hard way.
I can only think of 2 times in the past 25 years where Marquette has started 3 freshmen. McIlvane, Logterman and Key went 11-18 as freshmen before advancing to the Sweet 16 as seniors.
And guess what Marquette's record was 17 games into the 2005-06 season, the first for James, Matthews and McNeal? Hmmm, 12-5. That included losses to Winthrop, Nebraska, Wisconsin (by 14), Cincinnati and West Virginia (by 19). That team went to the NCAA tournament.
This team has a chance to be special. No guarantees, of course. But it's possibly the deepest, most talented Marquette roster that I've ever seen. And there's a lot of season left to be played.
Quote from: brandx on January 13, 2016, 10:22:09 PM
Our SG (Duane) needs to make some shots. Worst shooting % on team among guys playing over 10 minutes a game except for Traci.
This team could be good if they just had some reliable jump shooters.
In today's basketball shooting is required both for points and spacing.
So many wide open threes which could change the momentum of close games at the time just clank off the rim. On the flip side, teams Marquette is playing to often drill the same wide open threes we miss.
I get that we should get the ball inside more, but it's just hard to be consistently productive on offense when you can't shoot from the perimeter and especially can't make threes.
I am not denying that Carlino -- or a player of similar experience and skill, and there are many out there -- would have helped this team. We need shooting and we need more experience.
I'm saying that it's a stretch to say adding one decent college player would have made the difference between an NIT team and a legit Sweet 16 team.
I'm not a Carlino "hater." I appreciate what he did for us last season. But let's please not elevate Matt Carlino beyond the level of "decent college player."
Now, a senior Novak or a senior Wes or a junior D-Wade or an actual college star ... now you're talkin'.
Thanks, Tower, for your brief and realistic thoughts. Not a lot of pragmatism on this board after a loss. Sure, they got our hopes up with that great comeback in the first half and then let us down, but what an improvement from Georgetown where they got so overpowered in the first half there was no hope of a comeback. I know you guys want them to win every game, but ultimately this is not a game we were supposed to win. We need to hold court at home, win the road games we're supposed to, and win a few road games we aren't supposed to. This game gave me a lot of hope for Saturday.
Now, if we could just figure out how to get 40 of Traci Carter's family and friends to every game, now that could be transformative.
You are welcome. Thanks for the kind words.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on January 14, 2016, 08:10:29 PM
Not a lot of pragmatism on this board after a loss.
BS! He posted BEFORE it was a loss :)
Quote from: warriorchick on January 14, 2016, 08:03:08 AM
I blame ChiTown for calling "dagger" with ten minutes left in the game and us being only nine points behind.
Totally jinxed us.
I've watched enough basketball games at the high school and college level to know when a team isn't gonna come back. I'm as positive as anyone here (even took the points last night) but I wasn't wrong.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 14, 2016, 08:50:24 PM
BS! He posted BEFORE it was a loss :)
But not before it was over. Like chi-town, I have watched and coached enough to know and accept the inevitable.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2016, 08:06:32 PM
I am not denying that Carlino -- or a player of similar experience and skill, and there are many out there -- would have helped this team. We need shooting and we need more experience.
I'm saying that it's a stretch to say adding one decent college player would have made the difference between an NIT team and a legit Sweet 16 team.
I'm not a Carlino "hater." I appreciate what he did for us last season. But let's please not elevate Matt Carlino beyond the level of "decent college player."
Now, a senior Novak or a senior Wes or a junior D-Wade or an actual college star ... now you're talkin'.
Yep, as I said earlier, we're not a Matt Carlino away from being top 10 - more like a Kris Dunn.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on January 14, 2016, 08:10:29 PM
Thanks, Tower, for your brief and realistic thoughts. Not a lot of pragmatism on this board after a loss. Sure, they got our hopes up with that great comeback in the first half and then let us down, but what an improvement from Georgetown where they got so overpowered in the first half there was no hope of a comeback. I know you guys want them to win every game, but ultimately this is not a game we were supposed to win. We need to hold court at home, win the road games we're supposed to, and win a few road games we aren't supposed to. This game gave me a lot of hope for Saturday.
Now, if we could just figure out how to get 40 of Traci Carter's family and friends to every game, now that could be transformative.
Interesting thought...pragmatism.
Applies to fans....maybe. Bet Wojo didnt tell the team before or after the game this is one we were supposed to lose.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 13, 2016, 11:21:13 PM
He was constantly being moved off his spots, even by guards. Just isn't physical enough.
More Deep Dish Pizzas.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2016, 10:02:08 PM
Yep, as I said earlier, we're not a Matt Carlino away from being top 10 - more like a Kris Dunn.
Or a Damion Lee.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 15, 2016, 12:00:38 AM
Or a Damion Lee.
Lee would have been enormous for this squad:
D.Lee - 17 ppg, 4 reb, 2 ast. 56 % FGHere are the other 3 immediate eligible players Wojo offered:
S.Miller (6'7, 210) - 13 ppg, 5 reb.
Gielo (6'9, 225) - 8 ppg, 4 reb.
D.Johnson (6'6, 210) - 12 ppg, 4 reb, 2 ast.
Quote from: Nephew on January 14, 2016, 03:32:58 PM
A friend watching on TV - the same feed as everyone else - said that Traci "got in Jay Wright's face after he sank it".
From the stands it wasn't exactly clear what happened once it went in, only that Traci was 6 inches away from the Nova bench when he buried that 3. Had Traci not already been in that corner I'm guessing there would not have been an issue. In part, Traci got in Wright's face because he was already right next to him.
What a shot though ...
Thank you for answering the question. I have never liked Mr. Wright, seems like a cry baby to me.
I know that taunting is a foul, but come on, man up a little and don't go crying to the ref.
What, he hurt my feelings? Nevrrtheless, I think it took the wind out of our sales and turned the game around for Nova. It negatively impacted Traci.
The old saying applies, don't chirp till the game is over.....
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2016, 08:06:32 PM
I am not denying that Carlino -- or a player of similar experience and skill, and there are many out there -- would have helped this team. We need shooting and we need more experience.
I'm saying that it's a stretch to say adding one decent college player would have made the difference between an NIT team and a legit Sweet 16 team.
I'm not a Carlino "hater." I appreciate what he did for us last season. But let's please not elevate Matt Carlino beyond the level of "decent college player."
Now, a senior Novak or a senior Wes or a junior D-Wade or an actual college star ... now you're talkin'.
Robert Jackson wasn't an all star player....he was an above average college player with a lot of experience. Without Robert Jackson I'm not sure we make the sweet 16 that year.
I completely get what you and Lenny are saying, and you very well could be right. I just think this team is on the cusp of greatness, it just needed one more ingredient to get there sooner.
Following on what all have said, it'll be interesting to see if next year's team minus HE and plus an eligible transfer/juco PF coupled with a years more experience is actually a better team. My guess is yes.
Hey, and don't forget about Rowsey.
Quote from: jsglow on January 15, 2016, 07:07:09 AM
Following on what all have said, it'll be interesting to see if next year's team minus HE and plus an eligible transfer/juco PF coupled with a years more experience is actually a better team. My guess is yes.
I think we're a very good team in that scenario.....I think we're an elite team if HE comes back(doubt it). If we can find a grad transfer/juco bruiser of a PT, I think we can really do some damage next year.
Quote from: jsglow on January 15, 2016, 07:07:09 AM
Following on what all have said, it'll be interesting to see if next year's team minus HE and plus an eligible transfer/juco PF coupled with a years more experience is actually a better team. My guess is yes.
Even without a grad transfer big, I think next year is better. If Henry stays or we do get a grad transfer, we'll be really really good
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 15, 2016, 07:27:00 AM
Even without a grad transfer big, I think next year is better. If Henry stays or we do get a grad transfer, we'll be really really good
We have no answer at the #4 right now assuming HE departs. But someone will certainly want the gig as 25+ minutes will be available immediately.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 15, 2016, 07:27:00 AM
Even without a grad transfer big, I think next year is better. If Henry stays or we do get a grad transfer, we'll be really really good
On the surface we should be better next year even without Henry, but if he does go we absolutely will need a rebounder. We don't have another 4 on the roster right now.
Enough with the 3 point attempts. Seems to always kill our momentum.
Quote from: mu03eng on January 15, 2016, 06:35:44 AM
Robert Jackson wasn't an all star player....he was an above average college player with a lot of experience. Without Robert Jackson I'm not sure we make the sweet 16 that year.
I completely get what you and Lenny are saying, and you very well could be right. I just think this team is on the cusp of greatness, it just needed one more ingredient to get there sooner.
You're right about Robert Jackson - not an All Star, but a really good college player (freshman player of the year in the SEC) - but - and this is key - at a position where we had nobody else.
At Matt's position, we have somebody else - Duane. Carlino would be an upgrade but IMO not a game changer.
Without Jackson, the 2003 Warriors had a junior future NBA Hall of Famer, an NBA point guard, a 6'10" NBA sharpshooter and a solid 6'10" power forward. To me, that was a roster on the cusp of greatness. I really hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see that with the current roster.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 15, 2016, 07:35:03 AM
On the surface we should be better next year even without Henry, but if he does go we absolutely will need a rebounder. We don't have another 4 on the roster right now.
We will need to work on team rebounding, but 4 guard lineups can work in the BEast. See Nova. I think a lineup of Carter, Duane, Haanif, Sandy, and Luke is very quick and could be deadly on offense and defense. Especially with JjJ, Rowsey, and Wally to throw in the mix. Rebounding would need to be a team effort.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 15, 2016, 12:45:25 PM
We will need to work on team rebounding, but 4 guard lineups can work in the BEast. See Nova. I think a lineup of Carter, Duane, Haanif, Sandy, and Luke is very quick and could be deadly on offense and defense. Especially with JjJ, Rowsey, and Wally to throw in the mix. Rebounding would need to be a team effort.
I agree with this. To me, the key would be Luke putting on some beef. When you look at Nova's 4-guard teams that have succeeded, they've generally had strong guys like Ochefu and Dante Cunningham in the middle. Yarou wasn't as wide as those guys, but he had a bigger 4 in Pinkston
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 15, 2016, 12:45:25 PM
We will need to work on team rebounding, but 4 guard lineups can work in the BEast. See Nova. I think a lineup of Carter, Duane, Haanif, Sandy, and Luke is very quick and could be deadly on offense and defense. Especially with JjJ, Rowsey, and Wally to throw in the mix. Rebounding would need to be a team effort.
I prefer a lineup of Howard, Duane, Haanif, Sandy and Luke. ;) ;)
"Howard?" Who Howard?
Quote from: terrykelly on January 15, 2016, 07:57:18 AM
Enough with the 3 point attempts. Seems to always kill our momentum.
Think it depends on who's making the 3-point attempt.
Henry's shooting less than 25% from long range. But he's taken the 3rd most attempts (57). Traci's making just 30.6%, with Jajuan at 32.3%.
He may not be setting the world on fire, but Duane is hitting at a decent clip by comparison (34.7% on 95 attempts). Sandy has been one of our best outside shooters (39.7% on 58 attempts).
I don't know Henry's true shooting ability, how he's shooting in practice, or how Wojo is coaching him. But based only on his game performance, he needs to be more selective from 3-point land. Haanif has taken 33 fewer 3-point shows than Henry, but he's only 1 behind in the makes column (hitting at an impressive 54.2%).
I'd like to see Wojo find a way to get Haanif and Sandy more open looks. And encourage Henry to ease up on the trigger.
Quote from: wildbillsb on January 15, 2016, 01:35:57 PM
"Howard?" Who Howard?
Markus Howard, 2017 but maybe reclassifying to 2016 PG we're recruiting hard. Top 30-40 recruit, I think.
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 15, 2016, 01:40:51 PM
Think it depends on who's making the 3-point attempt.
Henry's shooting less than 25% from long range. But he's taken the 3rd most attempts (57). Traci's making just 30.6%, with Jajuan at 32.3%.
He may not be setting the world on fire, but Duane is hitting at a decent clip by comparison (34.7% on 95 attempts). Sandy has been one of our best outside shooters (39.7% on 58 attempts).
I don't know Henry's true shooting ability, how he's shooting in practice, or how Wojo is coaching him. But based only on his game performance, he needs to be more selective from 3-point land. Haanif has taken 33 fewer 3-point shows than Henry, but he's only 1 behind in the makes column (hitting at an impressive 54.2%).
I'd like to see Wojo find a way to get Haanif and Sandy more open looks. And encourage Henry to ease up on the trigger.
I'd love to see Duane's %'s from 0-2 feet outside the arc vs. 2+. Seems like the deeper it is the better he shoots it. Almost like taking a full swing in golf vs. a 3/4 swing. I'd rather be a full pitching wedge out vs. a 3/4 swing.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on January 15, 2016, 02:55:35 PM
I'd love to see Duane's %'s from 0-2 feet outside the arc vs. 2+. Seems like the deeper it is the better he shoots it. Almost like taking a full swing in golf vs. a 3/4 swing. I'd rather be a full pitching wedge out vs. a 3/4 swing.
He misses the closer 3's on purpose to impress the NBA scouts.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on January 15, 2016, 02:55:35 PM
I'd love to see Duane's %'s from 0-2 feet outside the arc vs. 2+. Seems like the deeper it is the better he shoots it. Almost like taking a full swing in golf vs. a 3/4 swing. I'd rather be a full pitching wedge out vs. a 3/4 swing.
Duane has hit some big 3s. But he can be pretty streaky. Maybe he hasn't found his sweet spot just yet. Seems to take (and make) most of his from top of the key or the left corner.
To my eye, his form looks somewhat unusual, with a big hitch of the legs as he releases the ball. Almost like he's forcing it. Steve Novak he's not. But for the number of shots he takes, around 35% is a decent number.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 15, 2016, 09:44:48 AM
You're right about Robert Jackson - not an All Star, but a really good college player (freshman player of the year in the SEC) - but - and this is key - at a position where we had nobody else.
At Matt's position, we have somebody else - Duane. Carlino would be an upgrade but IMO not a game changer.
Without Jackson, the 2003 Warriors had a junior future NBA Hall of Famer, an NBA point guard, a 6'10" NBA sharpshooter and a solid 6'10" power forward. To me, that was a roster on the cusp of greatness. I really hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see that with the current roster.
That team should have run the table. The fact that we were not just beaten but humiliated on the game's greatest stage remains one of the most shameful moments in the long, proud history of Marquette basketball.
Quote from: keefe on January 16, 2016, 02:32:38 AM
That team should have run the table. The fact that we were not just beaten but humiliated on the game's greatest stage remains one of the most shameful moments in the long, proud history of Marquette basketball.
I am not sure that the Warriors should have won it all in 2003 (Melo and Syracuse were on a roll), but I agree that it was of the worst moments in Marquette Basketball (Jim Nantz still jokes about it). Fortunately or unfortunately, my sister got married that day and I saw maybe 5 minutes of the game in hotel bar. I don't remember seeing the Warriors make a bucket and they gave up at least a dozen easy transition points. Sometimes I wonder if Crean and his staff actually scouted Kansas.
All that being said, this year's team is good, but it does not have the talent of the 2003 team. Besides HE, who else is going to the NBA?
Quote from: terrykelly on January 15, 2016, 07:57:18 AM
Enough with the 3 point attempts. Seems to always kill our momentum.
Wilson's threes is why we beat St. John's. In retrospect I think the Villanova game was a repeat of last year's problem where the team got tired at the end of games. When the wheels started coming off we were getting a lot of touch fouls on defense, which we were not getting before. During the game I thought the refs were just calling it tighter, but now I think we were tired, which resulted in us using our hands more. Being tired leads to poor decisions and poor execution. Normally, we play eight players and the prior two games we played 9 with Heldt getting some minutes. With Johnson out and Heldt not being used we only played 7 players in a game that basically required effort on every play. I am not saying we would of won with Johnson, but I do believe we were hampered by having only 7 players. Again, if we would of played Heldt and Sacar some we probably would not of won, but we would not have been as tired at the end of the game.
Quote from: bilsu on January 16, 2016, 08:40:45 AM
Wilson's threes is why we beat St. John's. In retrospect I think the Villanova game was a repeat of last year's problem where the team got tired at the end of games. When the wheels started coming off we were getting a lot of touch fouls on defense, which we were not getting before. During the game I thought the refs were just calling it tighter, but now I think we were tired, which resulted in us using our hands more. Being tired leads to poor decisions and poor execution. Normally, we play eight players and the prior two games we played 9 with Heldt getting some minutes. With Johnson out and Heldt not being used we only played 7 players in a game that basically required effort on every play. I am not saying we would of won with Johnson, but I do believe we were hampered by having only 7 players. Again, if we would of played Heldt ans Sacar some we probably would not of won, but we would not have been as tired at the end of the game.
Really good observation. The team seemed incredibly low energy for extended periods in the 2d half.