MUScoop

Greska: Deconstructing the Ellenson narrative


Source: Greska: Deconstructing the Ellenson narrative (http://painttouches.com/2015/12/22/greska-deconstructing-the-ellenson-narrative/)

Quote from: PaintTouches on December 22, 2015, 10:30:07 AM
Greska: Deconstructing the Ellenson narrative

I'm the kind of guy that will cry foul when national media isn't paying attention to a certain story that merits it, and then pick it apart when it does, even if it's a positive story. I did it with Reid Forgrave and his long look at Davante Gardner. I did it with Dan Hanner [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://pixel.wp.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=14097&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1" width="1" height="1" />

Source: Greska: Deconstructing the Ellenson narrative (http://painttouches.com/2015/12/22/greska-deconstructing-the-ellenson-narrative/)

Ehh, I think this article comes across whiny and wearing MU glasses.

1. MU isn't a sexy brand-named school- I think that is 100% accurate. If you ask anyone who didn't go to Marquette and ask them to name the sexiest schools and Marquette wouldn't be on their top 15 list. They would be on par with schools like Creighton, Gonzaga, Butler. Not exactly the sexiest group when you are talking about a 1 and done.

2. Big East- They make money on Fox Sports 1 but does the average basketball fan care? ESPN games just dominate at bars. Even locally you are probably more likely to see the ESPN game over a Marquette Fox Sports game at any bar in Milwaukee not named Cafferys, Murphys or Major Goolsbys. The teams are good now with their name recognition, but will this carry over when we aren't riding our former success? The league has a good start but definitely is still defining itself.

It's ok to admit that MU isn't the Mecca of the college basketball world anymore. They have a great base but we need to keep building if we ever want the publicity or stature of Duke.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 22, 2015, 11:14:53 AM
Ehh, I think this article comes across whiny and wearing MU glasses.

1. MU isn't a sexy brand-named school- I think that is 100% accurate. If you ask anyone who didn't go to Marquette and ask them to name the sexiest schools and Marquette wouldn't be on their top 15 list. They would be on par with schools like Creighton, Gonzaga, Butler. Not exactly the sexiest group when you are talking about a 1 and done.

2. Big East- They make money on Fox Sports 1 but does the average basketball fan care? ESPN games just dominate at bars. Even locally you are probably more likely to see the ESPN game over a Marquette Fox Sports game at any bar in Milwaukee not named Cafferys, Murphys or Major Goolsbys. The teams are good now with their name recognition, but will this carry over when we aren't riding our former success? The league has a good start but definitely is still defining itself.

It's ok to admit that MU isn't the Mecca of the college basketball world anymore. They have a great base but we need to keep building if we ever want the publicity or stature of Duke.

Marquette has 31 NCAA Tournament appearances, tied for 12th in the country (along with Connecticut) for all NCAA Division 1 programs - more than schools like Michigan State, Maryland, Michigan and Wisconsin.  By that stat alone Marquette is in the top grouping for college basketball programs. 

The Big East, at present, currently has three top-10 teams (Xavier, Butler, Providence).  They are the far-and-away top basketball-only conference in the nation, and are widely considered a power conference in basketball, despite not sponsoring football.

It's perfectly fine to not wear MU-glasses when observing the state of Marquette and/or the Big East, but one must also look at the facts when critiquing both. 

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on December 22, 2015, 11:36:17 AM
Marquette has 31 NCAA Tournament appearances, tied for 12th in the country (along with Connecticut) for all NCAA Division 1 programs - more than schools like Michigan State, Maryland, Michigan and Wisconsin.  By that stat alone Marquette is in the top grouping for college basketball programs. 

...but UConn has 4 National Championships and 5 FF appearances (most of them recently) and MSU has 2 titles and 9 trips to the FF (most of them recently). Those numbers mean more than NCAAT appearances. It's a nice stat, don't get me wrong, but if you don't win anything, it doesn't mean much. I mean, Marquette has the same number of NCAAT appearances as Temple. When you list the top grouping of college bball programs, does Temple make your list?

Marquette has had an all-time great coach, several outstanding seasons and some great players, but we need to stop getting all up in arms because some national writer doesn't think that MU and/or the Big East is a big-name, super power.

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on December 22, 2015, 11:36:17 AM
Marquette has 31 NCAA Tournament appearances, tied for 12th in the country (along with Connecticut) for all NCAA Division 1 programs - more than schools like Michigan State, Maryland, Michigan and Wisconsin.  By that stat alone Marquette is in the top grouping for college basketball programs. 

The Big East, at present, currently has three top-10 teams (Xavier, Butler, Providence).  They are the far-and-away top basketball-only conference in the nation, and are widely considered a power conference in basketball, despite not sponsoring football.

It's perfectly fine to not wear MU-glasses when observing the state of Marquette and/or the Big East, but one must also look at the facts when critiquing both.

31 appearances is kind of a random stat. Yeah, we are a consistently good team that makes the field but we are kinda just there most years after Al. We only had 1 year that really mattered (2003). Even the Elite Eight doesn't mean much to the average fan. We have 44 wins over those 31 appearances according to wikipedia. Yeah, it's a good looking resume and something to be proud of but I wouldn't call it sexy. Kentucky (120 wins), UNC (110), Duke (105), UCLA (98) and Kansas (97). Now those are sexy win NCAA numbers if you are going for the Jennifer Aniston always-been sexy and still sexy look.

They said our program had a great history behind it but if we are being honest, we aren't a top 10 school a top 10 recruit normally chooses. If we were that sexy, we would've been getting better recruits over the years.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 22, 2015, 01:11:45 PM
They said our program had a great history behind it but if we are being honest, we aren't a top 10 school a top 10 recruit normally chooses. If we were that sexy, we would've been getting better recruits over the years.

+1

We aren't even consistently the on the 'its an honor to just be nominated' list of top-10 recruits.  This is a big deal and it should be no surprise that people are writing a story with this angle.  She mentioned that we have some program history -- its not like she called us Dayton.

3 threads responding to an ESPN article.    We are that freaking insecure. 

Random question: Appearances Wins Losses
Eddie Hickey (Creighton 1927) 1959, 61 .... 2 1 3
Al McGuire [St. John's (NY) 1951]
76-RR, 77-CH ....................................................... 9 20 9

How did we end up with more losses than appearances?

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 22, 2015, 01:22:28 PM
Random question: Appearances Wins Losses
Eddie Hickey (Creighton 1927) 1959, 61 .... 2 1 3
Al McGuire [St. John's (NY) 1951]
76-RR, 77-CH ....................................................... 9 20 9

How did we end up with more losses than appearances?

There was a third place game for awhile.  Not sure when that went away.

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 22, 2015, 01:22:28 PM
Random question: Appearances Wins Losses
Eddie Hickey (Creighton 1927) 1959, 61 .... 2 1 3
Al McGuire [St. John's (NY) 1951]
76-RR, 77-CH ....................................................... 9 20 9

How did we end up with more losses than appearances?

The year Chones left (1972) in late February we won our first game (to reach the S16) then lost the next game and the 3rd place game at the regionals.

Quote from: tower912 on December 22, 2015, 01:19:42 PM
3 threads responding to an ESPN article.    We are that freaking insecure.

To be fair, this was an automatic thread generated by paint touches, so we're only two/thirds as insecure as we look

Quote from: tower912 on December 22, 2015, 01:19:42 PM
3 threads responding to an ESPN article.    We are that freaking insecure.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on December 22, 2015, 11:36:17 AM
Marquette has 31 NCAA Tournament appearances, tied for 12th in the country (along with Connecticut) for all NCAA Division 1 programs - more than schools like Michigan State, Maryland, Michigan and Wisconsin.  By that stat alone Marquette is in the top grouping for college basketball programs. 

Temple is also tied with UConn with 31 NCAA tournament appearances. Which shows that this stat alone means nothing.