http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14313463/chad-ford-nba-mock-draft-ben-simmons-skal-labissiere-first-board
1 Simmons
2 Skal
7 Portland Trail Blazers*
Henry Ellenson
Marquette
Freshman
Forward/center
The Blazers suffered short-term catastrophic losses to their core this summer, but the long-term outlook is rosy. Damian Lillard and C.J. McCollum are a lethal backcourt. Portland just needs more help up front. Ellenson should be a terrific fit. He's big, athletic, skilled and can really stretch the floor. While his shooting numbers are down right now, he's a real threat from 3. In the new NBA, he's the prototypical young 4. The Blazers shouldn't hesitate to grab him if he falls this far.
27 Stone
Sssssshhh. Don't you know, Henry is nowhere near ready for the NBA.
Just like he was going to be a 6 and 3 guy this season because freshman don't produce in college.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2015, 02:50:29 PM
Sssssshhh. Don't you know, Henry is nowhere near ready for the NBA.
Just like he was going to be a 6 and 3 guy this season because freshman don't produce in college.
A little OT versus draft status but I figured he would be a double digit scorer but his rebounding has been fantastic and beyond expectations. I never expected 9+ rebounds per game out of him at this point. He has single handily made us from a poor defensive rebounding team to a decent one.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 10, 2015, 03:06:55 PM
A little OT versus draft status but I figured he would be a double digit scorer but his rebounding has been fantastic and beyond expectations. I never expected 9+ rebounds per game out of him at this point. He has single handily made us from a poor defensive rebounding team to a decent one.
That and Luke has improved there a lot, too. I didn't expect 9+, but I did expect about 6. When you're 6'11" and you aren't a clutz you're going to be able to get a few rebounds.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2015, 02:50:29 PM
Sssssshhh. Don't you know, Henry is nowhere near ready for the NBA.
Just like he was going to be a 6 and 3 guy this season because freshman don't produce in college.
Henry isn't NBA-ready at this point. However, the top of the NBA Draft isn't about finding players who are NBA-ready. It's about finding players with the most potential. A 6'10" guy with all-around skills definitely has a TON of potential, but he still has plenty of work to do. Henry would no doubt benefit from another year in school, but if he's going to be taken in the top 6-8 of the NBA Draft, he needs to go.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 10, 2015, 03:41:17 PM
Henry isn't NBA-ready at this point. However, the top of the NBA Draft isn't about finding players who are NBA-ready. It's about finding players with the most potential. A 6'10" guy with all-around skills definitely has a TON of potential, but he still has plenty of work to do. Henry would no doubt benefit from another year in school, but if he's going to be taken in the top 6-8 of the NBA Draft, he needs to go.
I think there are very few players more NBA ready offensively than Henry Ellenson in college. I don't even think Simmons would be as ready to contribute as Henry right now, as in the NBA you need to at least be some kind of threat to shoot from the perimeter if you aren't a banger in the post, and at 6'10" and like 210 lbs Simmons is not that, and does not have any kind of perimeter shot.
If the Blazers took Henry and said, "We need you to be our front court scorer, you're getting 28 mpg no matter how bad your defense is," Henry could score 12-15 ppg in the NBA right now. I don't think many college players are "ready" to do that. Now his defense...
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 10, 2015, 03:41:17 PM
Henry isn't NBA-ready at this point. However, the top of the NBA Draft isn't about finding players who are NBA-ready. It's about finding players with the most potential. A 6'10" guy with all-around skills definitely has a TON of potential, but he still has plenty of work to do. Henry would no doubt benefit from another year in school, but if he's going to be taken in the top 6-8 of the NBA Draft, he needs to go.
I guess I don't understand why he would benefit from another year in college? He's averaging 17/9 and 30 mpg. He's already the main guy on the team and we are only a 1/3 of the way through the season. He will have plenty of time to be the man and develop come March. He won't have much to prove at that point playing mediocre talent for another year. Even everyone's whipping boy, Frank Kaminsky, is on pace for 1300 minutes this year despite limited playing time, which is what he played last year.
If he's drafted top 8, he will be on a bad team and almost guaranteed 20 MPG a game for 80 games compared to the 35 he would get in 35 college games. He will have better trainers, food, coaches, equipment.....
Unless you are purely talking about another year of growing as a person, a semester full of electives, and a year of being the man on campus.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 10, 2015, 04:20:46 PM
I guess I don't understand why he would benefit from another year in college? He's averaging 17/9 and 30 mpg. He's already the main guy on the team and we are only a 1/3 of the way through the season. He will have plenty of time to be the man and develop come March. He won't have much to prove at that point playing mediocre talent for another year. Even everyone's whipping boy, Frank Kaminsky, is on pace for 1300 minutes this year despite limited playing time, which is what he played last year.
If he's drafted top 8, he will be on a bad team and almost guaranteed 20 MPG a game for 80 games compared to the 35 he would get in 35 college games. He will have better trainers, food, coaches, equipment.....
Unless you are purely talking about another year of growing as a person, a semester full of electives, and a year of being the man on campus.
Yup.
Hes from a small town in WI...
HE GONE!
I find it surprising that Fischer has not cracked any mock drafts as of late.
I actually think that Henry will stay one more year unless Wally leaves to try for the Olympics. That said, he's clearly NBA ready. Maybe not ready to be a starter or good player but he's definitely ready for NBA minutes. Polished offensively, strong rebounder, needs a lot of work on defense but so do most freshman big guys. Barring injury, he's a top 10 pick if he leaves this year. And he's a top 10 pick if he stays for one more year.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on December 10, 2015, 04:20:46 PM
I guess I don't understand why he would benefit from another year in college? He's averaging 17/9 and 30 mpg. He's already the main guy on the team and we are only a 1/3 of the way through the season. He will have plenty of time to be the man and develop come March. He won't have much to prove at that point playing mediocre talent for another year. Even everyone's whipping boy, Frank Kaminsky, is on pace for 1300 minutes this year despite limited playing time, which is what he played last year.
If he's drafted top 8, he will be on a bad team and almost guaranteed 20 MPG a game for 80 games compared to the 35 he would get in 35 college games. He will have better trainers, food, coaches, equipment.....
Unless you are purely talking about another year of growing as a person, a semester full of electives, and a year of being the man on campus.
Mostly agreed. The only other possible benefits might be a legitimate shot at the Final Four and another year of playing with his brother, if those are a big deal to him.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on December 10, 2015, 04:50:59 PM
I actually think that Henry will stay one more year unless Wally leaves to try for the Olympics. That said, he's clearly NBA ready. Maybe not ready to be a starter or good player but he's definitely ready for NBA minutes. Polished offensively, strong rebounder, needs a lot of work on defense but so do most freshman big guys. Barring injury, he's a top 10 pick if he leaves this year. And he's a top 10 pick if he stays for one more year.
It would be interesting to know if he has an insurance policy this year taken out. No way in hell I would stay another year unless I had one guaranteeing me millions if I have a bad injury.
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on December 10, 2015, 04:32:09 PM
I find it surprising that Fischer has not cracked any mock drafts as of late.
Luke needs to develop that 12-15 ft jumper. Right now, his range is about 4 ft. Seriously, in the almost year that he has been playing for MU, how many shots have you seen him make from outside the painted area? Unless you have some other fully developed skill (relentless rebounding, shot blocking, etc), being 6'11 isn't enough. I love the guy. I love having a low block scorer who can pass, run the floor, rebound and play defense. For the next level, he is going to have to expand his range, and learn how to score and defend in space.
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2015, 05:16:39 PM
Luke needs to develop that 12-15 ft jumper. Right now, his range is about 4 ft. Seriously, in the almost year that he has been playing for MU, how many shots have you seen him make from outside the painted area? Unless you have some other fully developed skill (relentless rebounding, shot blocking, etc), being 6'11 isn't enough. I love the guy. I love having a low block scorer who can pass, run the floor, rebound and play defense. For the next level, he is going to have to expand his range, and learn how to score and defend in space.
He can though, for whatever reason they have just never implemented it in the offense so far.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 10, 2015, 05:53:32 PM
He can though, for whatever reason they have just never implemented it in the offense so far.
Nothing to base this on, but perhaps last year his shoulder kept him from being about to hit that 12-15 foot shot. This year, with Henry effective at stepping out, it makes sense for Luke to stay in the lane.
To the question of the draft, it is a bit interesting that he isn't being talked about at all, even with the caveat of needing to develop a more consistent mid-range shot. I mean, if that's "all" he needs, and the NBA drafts on potential, then it would seem he'd show up in the mocks. Maybe the scouts are smarter than me/us?
I think Luke has a good chance of getting drafted late 2nd round after he graduates.
Guys that are 6'11" with solid basketball skills don't fall off of trees. His biggest drawback is that he does not play to his 6'11" size all the time - in other words, he still plays mostly below the rim.
He needs to be more Andrew Bogut-ish on defense. His offensive skill are as good as Andrew's.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2015, 03:13:03 PM
That and Luke has improved there a lot, too. I didn't expect 9+, but I did expect about 6. When you're 6'11" and you aren't a clutz you're going to be able to get a few rebounds.
Luke's offensive rebounding has been great.. his DR% is stuck at 13%. Need more out of him there.
I am not sure what Luke does in the NBA. He doesn't have a face up offensive game. He isn't a great defender and most definitely can't guard out on the perimeter. He basically has the same body as Frank Kaminsky and is about the same on defense. But Kaminsky has a very diverse offensive game.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 10, 2015, 07:05:11 PM
I am not sure what Luke does in the NBA. He doesn't have a face up offensive game. He isn't a great defender and most definitely can't guard out on the perimeter. He basically has the same body as Frank Kaminsky and is about the same on defense. But Kaminsky has a very diverse offensive game.
Better defender than Kaminsky. Far more athletic, too. But I agree, I don't see him as an NBA player right now, needs to add more offensively.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 10, 2015, 07:05:11 PM
I am not sure what Luke does in the NBA. He doesn't have a face up offensive game. He isn't a great defender and most definitely can't guard out on the perimeter. He basically has the same body as Frank Kaminsky and is about the same on defense. But Kaminsky has a very diverse offensive game.
A 10-12 minute guy off the bench.
Quote from: brandx on December 10, 2015, 07:21:25 PM
A 10-12 minute guy off the bench.
Luke? In what role? NBA centers are either defensive, athletic freaks or can step out and hit a few shots. I don't see Luke in either role.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 10, 2015, 04:52:05 PM
The only other possible benefits might be a legitimate shot at the Final Four and another year of playing with his brother, if those are a big deal to him.
This. If he is going to stay, it is because of this. If the money and status are more important -- and I wouldn't blame him one lick if he decides they are -- then he'll go.
It's pretty simple, and I actually think most of us agree. If he likes college, wants to play with bro and wants a shot at the FF, he stays. If he is meh on the college experience or this one year with Wally was enough (or if Wally leaves) or if he prefers an NBA paycheck to a FF run, he goes.
As for Luke ... I'm not seeing an NBA player yet. He's James Augustine, but not as athletic.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 10, 2015, 07:24:33 PM
Luke? In what role? NBA centers are either defensive, athletic freaks or can step out and hit a few shots. I don't see Luke in either role.
I'd be interested to see if Luke can hit the elbow jumper at some point in his playing career. Obviously Germantown High School isn't quite the level of defense he'd be going up against in the NBA, but he had range out to the 3 point line in high school. If he could show he can hit that shot at some point I could see him being a lot like Zaza. Doesn't wow you or excite you with anything, but a good passer, a smart player, and a guy who will just be a big body rebounding the ball and protecting the rim.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2015, 10:19:58 PM
I'd be interested to see if Luke can hit the elbow jumper at some point in his playing career. Obviously Germantown High School isn't quite the level of defense he'd be going up against in the NBA, but he had range out to the 3 point line in high school. If he could show he can hit that shot at some point I could see him being a lot like Zaza. Doesn't wow you or excite you with anything, but a good passer, a smart player, and a guy who will just be a big body rebounding the ball and protecting the rim.
Funny cuz Zaza was the guy I was thinking of. Doesn't have his toughness yet, but he has time. Luke doesn't wow at any one thing, but has a nice skillset.
That is the reason I said he had a chance
late in the 2nd.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on December 10, 2015, 04:50:59 PM
I actually think that Henry will stay one more year unless Wally leaves to try for the Olympics.
Wouldn't Wally be leaving now then since the Rio olympics are in Aug. 2016? Even if he makes the Olympic team he could come for next year. Anyone know if Wally is on pace to graduate this year?
For anybody who thinks Henry wouldn't be able or ready to contribute to an NBA team next year go back and watch MU's first bucket yesterday and get back to me.
Shot was sick. However, we are currently playing atrocious basketball teams. Yes, the Badgers included. The level of competition and athleticism in the NBA is on a different level. I love Henry and think he's a beast. Doesn't mean he "currently" isn't a tad slow for the NBA. More so defensively than offensively
Quote from: GoldenZebra on December 10, 2015, 04:31:33 PM
Hes from a small town in WI...
HE GONE!
Would a larger Wisconsin city or Chicago make him stay?
I agree that HE is gone.....regardless the size of the city that he is from.
No one wants him to stay more than me, but if you're dreaming of a sophomore year, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.
Quote from: Litehouse on December 11, 2015, 05:20:17 AM
Wouldn't Wally be leaving now then since the Rio olympics are in Aug. 2016? Even if he makes the Olympic team he could come for next year. Anyone know if Wally is on pace to graduate this year?
Wally hasn't even qualified for nationals yet. 2.29m is needed and his pr is 2.28 set last january. He will have to make a huge jump literally and figuratively to get into top 3 us jumpers.
Henry has moved up in the rankings this week. Mock 3.0. I really think he will be top 5 by end of year.
"Scouts continue to warm on Ellenson to the point that he might be a hot month away from surpassing both Brown and Labissiere on our board.
He is big and mobile, rebounds and can really shoot the basketball. His 3-point shot hasn't really been falling, but he's shooting a red-hot 51 percent on 2-point jumpers. He's the prototypical stretch-4 in the new NBA."
Quote from: brandx on December 18, 2015, 06:38:12 PM
Henry has moved up in the rankings this week. Mock 3.0. I really think he will be top 5 by end of year.
"Scouts continue to warm on Ellenson to the point that he might be a hot month away from surpassing both Brown and Labissiere on our board.
He is big and mobile, rebounds and can really shoot the basketball. His 3-point shot hasn't really been falling, but he's shooting a red-hot 51 percent on 2-point jumpers. He's the prototypical stretch-4 in the new NBA."
Where do they have him going now?
#6
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2015, 02:50:29 PM
Sssssshhh. Don't you know, Henry is nowhere near ready for the NBA.
Just like he was going to be a 6 and 3 guy this season because freshman don't produce in college.
In consider his first 4 games his freshman year. Lots of turnovers and missed shots like all freshman. I consider the last 6 games the start of his All-American sophomore season :-) Almost unstoppable.
At this point it seems like wishful thinking but man, I really want Hank to stay just one more year. That's honestly a final 4 caliber team. Can you imagine a Henry drive and kick to Rowsey/Hauser?
Luke will play next level IMO. He has a lot if upside and he will learn to bury the 15ft jumper down the road. He made major strides this offseason I expect the progress to continue.
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1837997
Quote from: nyg on December 19, 2015, 07:58:53 AM
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1837997
Thanks for the link.
They say Henry's brother is ... Henry. Just a boo-boo, can happen (and does happen) to anybody.
Those are some serious tats on Ingram!
No Haanif love in "10 to watch" category? Maybe by midseason.
Quote from: nyg on December 19, 2015, 07:58:53 AM
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1837997
Nice to see a list showing who is actually producing rather than who has potential to produce.
Quote from: Goose on December 19, 2015, 02:53:33 AM
Luke will play next level IMO. He has a lot if upside and he will learn to bury the 15ft jumper down the road. He made major strides this offseason I expect the progress to continue.
Down the road? He's a junior in college who never shoots outside of three feet. People have been saying he can make a jumper for years but I have yet to see him even take one consistently at the top of the key. I can't imagine him in the NBA at this point.
Quote from: Goose on December 19, 2015, 02:53:33 AM
Luke will play next level IMO. He has a lot if upside and he will learn to bury the 15ft jumper down the road. He made major strides this offseason I expect the progress to continue.
I think you and I are in the minority on this one, Goose.
I think he could have a nice career as a backup in the NBA. Big guys who can play 10-12 minutes a game earn a good living.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 19, 2015, 02:44:41 PM
Down the road? He's a junior in college who never shoots outside of three feet. People have been saying he can make a jumper for years but I have yet to see him even take one consistently at the top of the key. I can't imagine him in the NBA at this point.
I dont think players like Greg Steimsma consistently took jumpers from the top of the key either. He is an athletic big whose game is still developing. He has a 1.5 years left in college--Im not writing him off just yet.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 19, 2015, 04:27:59 PM
I dont think players like Greg Steimsma consistently took jumpers from the top of the key either. He is an athletic big whose game is still developing. He has a 1.5 years left in college--Im not writing him off just yet.
Steimsma should have shot more. He was completely misused at UW.
The point is he made the league....and didnt shoot jumpers from the top of the key either.
nm
Fischer will get a look. He's got size, runs the floor really well and has the make up.
+1. Regardless if he can shoot from the top of the key.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 19, 2015, 07:42:00 PM
+1. Regardless if he can shoot from the top of the key.
False.
false? He will get a look.
Fine. He will "get a look." He won't stick. Too slow laterally, not strong enough, limited offensive game.
So if you think he will be another Greg Steimsma? Fine. Knock yourself out with that.
He'll getta look like Kevin Love gotta look. Look my ass, Henry's a playa, hey? As for Fischer, I'm down with him. Continual improvement translates to an Association pay day, ai na? Do da name Duje Dukan ring a bell, hey?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 19, 2015, 07:49:50 PM
Fine. He will "get a look." He won't stick. Too slow laterally, not strong enough, limited offensive game.
So if you think he will be another Greg Steimsma? Fine. Knock yourself out with that.
I , like you, also believe that Luke will get a look in the league.
Henry definitely should play at least two years at Marquette. He should enjoy life before he says the NBA grind.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 19, 2015, 08:38:16 PM
Henry definitely should play at least two years at Marquette. He should enjoy life before he says the NBA grind.
I think most NBA players would find their life more enjoyable than when they were in college.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 19, 2015, 08:38:16 PM
Henry definitely should play at least two years at Marquette. He should enjoy life before he says the NBA grind.
"The NBA grind"
--Henry Ellenson
Sultan
After all the years of chatting on here with you I have come to one certain conclusion, you and I definitely must be watching a different game. Politely disagree on your assessment of Luke, and Henry for that matter. All I know is I am going to enjoy have two athletic, future Nba'er 6-11 studs for as long we have them.
I have been watching the program long and these two are best frontline duo we have had in decades IMO. Down the road they might be remembered as the greatest duo ever.
I think they are a great front line. But they are very different players. Henry is gifted offensively. Really a prototypical NBA stretch 4 type player. Luke is more limited. That is why Henry is projected as a lottery pick in 2016 while Luke is projected as a late 2017 pick at best.
But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching both as college players. You are correct that this is the best front line duo that Marquette has had in decades.
I have enjoyed watching Luke and Henry together so far and I agree with those who say it's the best frontcourt duo we've had in ages.
Henry obviously will be a lottery pick.
I like Luke as a college player and it will be interesting to see if he evolves into more of an all-around offensive weapon next season if Henry goes. As he is right now, however, with no range outside of 5 feet and a very mechanical offensive game, he is not a serious NBA prospect. Right now, is Luke a better prospect than James Augustine was for Illinois a few years back? No. Is Luke a better prospect than Nick Fazekas, who averaged 20 pts and 11 rebounds for an NCAA tourney Nevada team a few years ago? No. Augustine and Fazekas were second-round picks who each lasted just a couple years in the NBA.
And now the league is going away from defense-first, rim-protector kinds of bigs.
I'd love seeing Luke have an NBA career, but right now he is not showing that he will. It doesn't mean he is anything but a very good college player. It's hard to be a pro.
Said 12/20/15------Luke Fischer will play and eventually stick in da NBA, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 20, 2015, 10:22:12 AM
Said 12/20/15------Luke Fischer will play and eventually stick in da NBA, hey?
Whitehead
Amal McCaskill
Tom Copa
Duje Dukan, hey?