MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown on December 04, 2015, 10:38:24 AM
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http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2595372-the-inevitable-end-is-near-for-tom-crean-at-indiana?is_shared=true#
The Inevitable End Is Near for Tom Crean
DURHAM, N.C. — They slapped the floor.
In the midst of one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of Indiana basketball, the underachieving Hoosiers thought the answer to their woes was to slap Coach K's floor at Cameron Indoor Stadium.
So, just like everything these Hoosiers do when they don't have the ball this season, they halfheartedly slapped the floor.
Seconds later Duke guard Grayson Allen was throwing in a circus shot off the backboard to end the first half. The game ended with the ball back in Allen's hands, IU guard James Blackmon Jr. swiping at the ball as the buzzer sounded, Allen with a "c'mon bro" grin on his face and the scoreboard reading Duke 94, Indiana 74.
What. A. Joke.
This is what year eight of the Tom Crean experience has turned into. One big joke. Check Twitter during an IU basketball game and you'll find the angry epilogue of the Crean era. ("Crean" was trending, unshockingly, on Wednesday night, and no one was complimenting his snappy wardrobe.)
This is what the end looks like—the Hoosiers imitating what they think defense should look like...one miserable possession after another.
"We need to guard the ball better," Crean said, and that was the gist of his postgame message. Well, that and reminding everyone we were minutes away from Dec. 3.
"It's eight games in, and I think we'll get better," Crean said. "That's the bottom line."
And that's an acceptable answer for most coaches, but Crean is not most coaches. His seat is so hot you can get burned just walking by, and, yes, it is only Dec. 3, but Crean returned a majority of his core from a team last year that also would not guard.
This was the year that was supposed to improve. The Hoosiers, the theory went, lacked an interior presence and rim protector, so Crean signed 6'10" Thomas Bryant, the fifth-best power forward in 247Sports' class of 2015 composite rankings.
Bryant is not the answer.
So Crean has turned gimmicky, switching from man-to-man to zone coverage, and sometimes inside one possession. It's confusing. Not to the opponent, but to his team.
The Hoosiers spent several possessions against the seventh-ranked Blue Devils doing a lot of pointing and scrambling to where they thought they should be.
Duke freshman wing Brandon Ingram, who has had trouble scoring against college defenses and torched IU for a season-high 24 points, said he felt like he was back in high school. Makes sense. Ingram hasn't faced a defense that bad since high school.
When Allen was asked to compare IU's defenses to other defenses Duke had faced this year, this was his answer, verbatim, after a long pause: "Um, you know they're, uh, they're obviously different than a Kentucky defensively, because they're not...they don't have the same size, but um, uh, their guards—Yogi [Ferrell], [Robert] Johnson, um, Blackmon, they're all quick. Um, and they can kind of get to the ball. Um, they don't have, uh, Bryant being their lone true big at the rim to protect, so it's kind of different inside, but their guards do a good job of being quick and getting to the ball."
Allen...was...um...searching. His best effort at not admitting that D was pretty lousy.
Let's just allow the numbers to tell the story, shall we?
Duke scored 1.52 points per possession against Indiana. That's the most efficient the Blue Devils have been in a game in the last 15 years, according to Ken Pomeroy's data. That's also the highest mark the Hoosiers have ever allowed in the Crean era.
Worse than any game in Crean's first year on the job when Kelvin Sampson had put the program on probation and the depleted roster won just one Big Ten game.
That context is important, as is the fact that Crean brought IU back from life support. The Hoosiers have made three of the last four NCAA tournaments, and they were a No. 1 seed in 2013.
Crean is not a terrible coach, and he's actually a damn good program builder. The talent on this roster is actually strong. This team started the season ranked 15th. Troy Williams is probably the most athletic guy in college basketball and a first-round talent. Bryant and Blackmon will likely one day hear their names called in the NBA draft. Ferrell is one of college basketball's most respected point guards.
You can make excuses for why that talent isn't working, but nothing really sticks.
Crean pointed to the experience Duke had in the frontcourt as one reason his team got pushed around—the Devils had more offensive rebounds (19) than IU had defensive rebounds (16). But the Hoosiers have more experience across the board—Crean played four seniors and two juniors Wednesday night. Duke is the country's 296th-most experienced team, according to KenPom.com.
You could use size as an excuse for getting dominated in the paint and on the boards. But the Hoosiers are not the country's only program embracing small ball. Villanova, for example, has a 6'5" wing playing most of his minutes at power forward, and that's the country's best second-best defensive team.
Here's the only explanation that fits: Crean's message has grown stale in Bloomington.
The off-the-court issues and the bitterness toward Crean are bad enough. But the fact that this is the second year with a core that just doesn't seem to comprehend what it takes to stop the other team from scoring comes back to the man in charge.
Yes, it's only Dec. 3.
But all that means is Crean has four months to start his search for the next stop.
Because with each bad loss—this is the third in eight games, with the other two to less talented and less experienced teams—with each defensive lapse, the natives grow restless.
There's not much that can save him now. Not a floor slap. Not a magical zone.
Tom Crean is a lame duck in Bloomington.
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Bet shopping here.... what odds would you offer me if I were to bet Buzz is the next coach at IU?
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100-1 and thats probably a bit low. I don't think Buzz would even be one of the top 10 on their list. I would go as far as to say I'd think Bryce Drew gets a call before buzz.
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They will try for Brad Stevens. They will end up with Archie Miller.
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They will try for Brad Stevens. They will end up with Archie Miller.
Can't tell whether you intended this literally or metaphorically, but either way, it's pretty spot on.
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Can't tell whether you intended this literally or metaphorically, but either way, it's pretty spot on.
My intent was literal if it turns out to be true. Metaphorical if it turns out differently.
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They will try for Brad Stevens. They will end up with Archie Miller.
Agree Brad won't come. Would be a ridiculous step up in terms of job size for Miller. IU will be maybe the most scrutinized job in college athletics for the next coach.
I feel like IU will be seeking out a "slam dunk" hire rather than a gamble. That's what Crean was supposed to be, but guessing it'll be someone with some level of demonstrated high-level success.
I was only half kidding about Buzz.... a coach with a practically zero dollar buyout and demonstrated track record of high level success would tick a lot of boxes for any AD.
Otherwise maybe Gregg Marshall? Not a lot of other coaches of that level who would be willing to leave for IU.
OR Richard Pitino? That would be quite the storyline.
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Agree Brad won't come. Would be a ridiculous step up in terms of job size for Miller. IU will be maybe the most scrutinized job in college athletics for the next coach.
I feel like IU will be seeking out a "slam dunk" hire rather than a gamble. That's what Crean was supposed to be, but guessing it'll be someone with some level of demonstrated high-level success.
I was only half kidding about Buzz.... a coach with a practically zero dollar buyout and demonstrated track record of high level success would tick a lot of boxes for any AD.
Archie Miller was an assistant in the Big Ten and P12 before getting the Dayton job. Is it any different than Thad Matta getting the Ohio State job from Xavier? Or Sean Miller going from Xavier to Arizona?
What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?
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Archie Miller was an assistant in the Big Ten and P12 before getting the Dayton job. Is it any different than Thad Matta getting the Ohio State job from Xavier? Or Sean Miller going from Xavier to Arizona?
What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?
Buzz and Gregg Marshall are the two I can think of...
I'm not saying Miller is a bad hire, I'm just saying the IU faithful might see that as too much of a gamble since IU is the ultimate destination job in college athletics.
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What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?
Isiah Thomas
Scott Drew, perhaps?
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Archie Miller was an assistant in the Big Ten and P12 before getting the Dayton job. Is it any different than Thad Matta getting the Ohio State job from Xavier? Or Sean Miller going from Xavier to Arizona?
What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?
I would put a call in to Archie's older brother just to see if he would listen.
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Buzz and Gregg Marshall are the two I can think of...
I'm not saying Miller is a bad hire, I'm just saying the IU faithful might see that as too much of a gamble since IU is the ultimate destination job in college athletics.
I don't think IU would have any interest in Buzz. Marshall maybe.
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I would put a call in to Archie's older brother just to see if he would listen.
Agreed.
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In the midst of one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of Indiana basketball, the underachieving Hoosiers thought the answer to their woes was to slap Coach K's floor at Cameron Indoor Stadium.
Let me make a correction to the article. It was actually one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of NCAA Division 1 basketball. I believe Duke averaged over 1.6 pts. per possession in the game. Legendary.
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Let me make a correction to the article. It was actually one of the most historically inept defensive performances in the proud history of NCAA Division 1 basketball. I believe Duke averaged over 1.6 pts. per possession in the game. Legendary.
Ole Stew IS AVAILABLE!!!!!
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Is something wrong with my monitor? Why isn't my teal working? Buzz?
I can appreciate that Buzz did some really nice things at Marquette and I was generally a fan, but I don't see him cashing in on a new job any time too soon. I think a lot of people perceive that Marquette was on a down-slide when he left; he moved to a lesser job; and he's not exactly tearing it up at VA Tech, is he? I can't imagine why anyone would consider Buzz for an upgrade at this point. I would think that he'd have to show some improvement at VT before he's going to take a big step up in his career. I think most of us on this board have just about as good of a shot at the Indiana job as Buzz does.
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So, hitching up your pants and clapping isn't a defensive philosophy? Who knew?
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My intent was literal if it turns out to be true. Metaphorical if it turns out differently.
You Hoopaloopin'?
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I think Buzz is kinda like a Top exec at a top tech company, who takes a lessor CEO job and doesn't kill it at the new job.
E.g Marissa Mayer
Her next job won't be as CEO of a top tech company. She will have to earn her way back to be in a position to earn that type of job. She is at a D job, and won't get offered a position of CEO at an A type of job. She will have to settle for the C type of CEO job or as an officer at an A job.
Same for Buzz. He is now going to have to earn his way back up to get an IU type of job. And I don't know if he will succeed, with all of his quirks and the stories out there. He has to be so much better at winning than the comparable other guy due to his personality.
I think he really has to kill it at Tech or another mid-level school before he would get a shot at IU.
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I don't think Buzz would want the Indiana job either. That's just as much of a pressure cooker, if not more, then Marquette is. Yes there were other reasons for Buzz's departure besides too much pressure (See: Mayo, Todd) but I think Buzz doesn't want to go back to that right away.
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I think Buzz is kinda like a Top exec at a top tech company, who takes a lessor CEO job and doesn't kill it at the new job.
E.g Marissa Mayer
Her next job won't be as CEO of a top tech company. She will have to earn her way back to be in a position to earn that type of job. She is at a D job, and won't get offered a position of CEO at an A type of job. She will have to settle for the C type of CEO job or as an officer at an A job.
Same for Buzz. He is now going to have to earn his way back up to get an IU type of job. And I don't know if he will succeed, with all of his quirks and the stories out there. He has to be so much better at winning than the comparable other guy due to his personality.
I think he really has to kill it at Tech or another mid-level school before he would get a shot at IU.
We finally got the Buzz Williams-Marissa Mayer comparison. This thread is complete.
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They will try for Brad Stevens. They will end up with Archie Miller.
Good call.
IU has retreads with the last two hires in Crean (assuming he is out) and Sampson. I would argue it has not worked out as well and the promoted assistant in Mike Davis (admittedly debatable).
Do you think they have learned that retread is not a good way to go? The best route is taking the current hotshot assistant. That is what MU has done the last 25 years and it has worked well. The one time they strayed from this (Mike Deane), it did not.
So, what odds do you give IU in doing "the smart thing" and promoting whoever is consider the top assistant in the country?
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Good call.
IU has retreads with the last two hires in Crean (assuming he is out) and Sampson. I would argue it has not worked out as well and the promoted assistant in Mike Davis (admittedly debatable).
Do you think they have learned that retread is not a good way to go? The best route is taking the current hotshot assistant. That is what MU has done the last 25 years and it has worked well. The one time they strayed from this (Mike Deane), it did not.
So, what odds do you give IU in doing "the smart thing" and promoting whoever is consider the top assistant in the country?
I think calling Crean and Sampson "retreads" completely redefines the word. Both were considered pretty hot coaching candidates at the time.
And what high major program hires an assistant from another program for his first coaching gig (versus promoted from within?) The last I can think of is Roy Williams at Kansas.
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And what high major program hires an assistant from another program for his first coaching gig (versus promoted from within?) The last I can think of is Roy Williams at Kansas.
Wojo! ;D
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Wojo! ;D
Oh good lord....that is seriously embarrassing.
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Oh good lord....that is seriously embarrassing.
Chris Collins
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Chris Collins
That's Northwestern. Doesn't really count.
But in all seriousness, we are talking about IU here. They wouldn't have looked at either Wojo or Collins if either were available.
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Oh good lord....that is seriously embarrassing.
Come on! I had to say it in jest before someone said it sincerely.
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That's Northwestern. Doesn't really count.
But in all seriousness, we are talking about IU here. They wouldn't have looked at either Wojo or Collins if either were available.
Probably true. I4 really does have some merrit no matter how much we make fun of it. That plus Indiana really is a basketball state. (Along with Illinois but don't get me started on that tire fire.)
Also, Northwestern will finish in the top half of the Big 10 this year. If Vic Law didn't get hurt, that is probably a tourney team.
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I think calling Crean and Sampson "retreads" completely redefines the word. Both were considered pretty hot coaching candidates at the time.
And what high major program hires an assistant from another program for his first coaching gig (versus promoted from within?) The last I can think of is Roy Williams at Kansas.
Johnny Dawkins, Stanford
Mike Daugherty, ND
Roy Williams, Kansas
Tommy Amaker, Michigan
Rich Pitino, Minnesota (yes he coached 1yr at FIU but he got hired based on his asst resume )
Shaka VCU
Mullins St. John's
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Wrong! Crean is more accurately a "lame dick" in Bloomin'ton, ai na?
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Sampson is now at University of Houston, and Guy V Lewis' last wish before he died last week was that Sampson return to Indiana, lol
Go Coogs Vs Temple on Sat. 11:oo am ABC, On to the Fiesta Bowl
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And what high major program hires an assistant from another program for his first coaching gig (versus promoted from within?) The last I can think of is Roy Williams at Kansas.
The Roy Williams saga proved one thing: Kansas University is little more than a stepping stone for the Blue Bloods of college basketball
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Johnny Dawkins, Stanford
Mike Daugherty, ND
Roy Williams, Kansas
Tommy Amaker, Michigan
Rich Pitino, Minnesota (yes he coached 1yr at FIU but he got hired based on his asst resume )
Shaka VCU
Mullins St. John's
Pitino doesn't count. VCU doesn't meet the criteria. Amacher was hired by Seton Hall first. But that list shows that it is exceedingly rare.
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Historically, don't Crean coached teams peak in November and December? 8 years in and no roster balance, no size or depth up front, poor defense..... He needs to keep hitching his pants up to move the hot spot around.
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He needs to keep hitching his pants up to move the hot spot around.
The guy is a weird f#ck
(http://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/images/Game-Column_14DFD/13023605004_17e4c9bba7_c1.jpg)
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What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?
Wojo ... after this season's Final Four run.
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Historically, don't Crean coached teams peak in November and December? 8 years in and no roster balance, no size or depth up front, poor defense..... He needs to keep hitching his pants up to move the hot spot around.
Yeah the more I watch Luke and see how good he is the more I realize that maybe the lack of control over the basketball program and the lack of control of the culture by the head coach may not have been why he came home, it might've simply been he wanted a coach who had a clue how to use size and talent.
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What slam dunk type of coach (proven coach from a high caliber conference) would show reciprocal interest in IU?
Take a page out of DePaul's playbook and bring back Mike Davis!
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Steve Alford.
Maybe.
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2014/10/9/6949251/ucla-basketball-steve-alfords-new-contract-provisions-dan-guerrero
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Steve Alford.
Maybe.
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2014/10/9/6949251/ucla-basketball-steve-alfords-new-contract-provisions-dan-guerrero
Not a fan of Alford. Not a very nice person. Threatened to ruin a kids chances of committing anywhere else after he decommitted from him at New Mexico.
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Not a fan of Alford. Not a very nice person. Threatened to ruin a kids chances of committing anywhere else after he decommitted from him at New Mexico.
Also told everyone to look the other way while one (or more) of his players was "playing reruns of the Cosby Show."
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Well, IU won the Big Ten title tonight. Second time in four years. Suffered another major injury in the process, however. Not good for the post season if they are without another key player.
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Suffered another major injury in the process, however. Not good for the post season if they are without another key player.
Well, Tanned Tommy has the perfect excuse for when his team gets schwacked on the first night...
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http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/111865/outright-big-ten-title-seals-indianas-unlikely-comeback-story
i'm not a big fan and my nephew down at IU would have agreed with all of this as of december, but...i think he's back. now they are going to expect big things at the dance...stay tuned
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This season may have been his best coaching job.
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Gotta give credit where it's due. Pretty impressive to run away from a couple of very good teams in MSU and Maryland. Flip side is Iowa - what a pathetic fade down the stretch. Lost 5 of last 6...with only win a close one over a moribund Minnesota team.
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Crean's best coaching job since the Amigo's. IMO, the first time his team's have overachieved their talent since that year. He has cooled his seat.
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He has had a very good year. Unfortunately for him, the nut jobs in Indiana are likley to loose their minds all over again if they get bounced early again.
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Crean's best coaching job since the Amigo's. IMO, the first time his team's have overachieved their talent since that year. He has cooled his seat.
I'd argue that he underachieved the Amigo's talent, admittedly he got short changed on some injuries but still underachieved.
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The Amigo's FRESHMAN YEAR. Thank you for keeping me on my toes.
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I don't think Crean is the best coach around by any means, but he did a great job this year. If Indiana underperforms and doesn't make the S16, yeah I am sure the crazies will be back complaining. But this program hasn't done much of anything for the past 15 years. I would be careful what I wish for.
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Well, Tanned Tommy has the perfect excuse for when his team gets schwacked on the first night...
He's lost on McDonald's All American for the season. Last night, lost their 6th man. Those are two pretty big blows. They are also down another starting guard that should return in a week or two.
They've persevered all year long.
That fan base is the most delusional on the planet. Part of me hopes he gets them to the Elite 8 or Final Four, they get knocked out and he says....I've had enough of the nonsense and he takes a job where he can do very well, dominate (i.e. Mark Few, Gregg Marshall) and not have to put up with the delusional grief. We'll see.
Would be quite ironic if he ends up Big Ten Coach of the Year with all the experts nationally and at Scoop saying again he would be fired. LOL
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I don't think Crean is the best coach around by any means, but he did a great job this year. If Indiana underperforms and doesn't make the S16, yeah I am sure the crazies will be back complaining. But this program hasn't done much of anything for the past 15 years. I would be careful what I wish for.
Correct, they have three Sweet 16's in the last 20 years, two of them under Crean. The other was under Davis, who took them to the Final Four in "one of those years" where a team got hot.
This is the first time IU has won outright titles in a 4 year span since the early 90's when Knight was coach. Their fans are a joke.
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Their fans are not a joke. THEY DON'T LIKE HIM! nobody wants a player or coach on their team who they cannot stand. It's the exact same scenario when he was at Marquette. Nobody wants him fronting their program because he's creepy and peculiar.
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Their fans are not a joke. THEY DON'T LIKE HIM! nobody wants a player or coach on their team who they cannot stand. It's the exact same scenario when he was at Marquette. Nobody wants him fronting their program because he's creepy and peculiar.
Yeah, I remember hearing too from you and other how much the players hated him. Except for Wade, Travis, Novak, etc, etc. LOL. Some IU fans have said the same thing, and then you see this.
https://www.youtube.com/v/u6dzmHZM0Nw
Some fans hate, some players hate, but your view on it PRN doesn't equate to everyone. It has more to do with their expectations and their deformed reality that they are still an elite program. They aren't. They are making progress to get back there, but they have a ways to go.
One thing is for sure, Crean haters having to take another year to predict firing and tucking their tail between their legs. As much I don't care for the guy personally having worked for him, my joy of watching the haters piss their pants easily makes up for it.
Don't worry, when they get bounced out you can get excited again and all that. If they can't get healthy quickly, they're going to have a tough climb.
As an alum, GO HOOSIERS
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He's lost on McDonald's All American for the season. Last night, lost their 6th man. Those are two pretty big blows. They are also down another starting guard that should return in a week or two.
They've persevered all year long.
That fan base is the most delusional on the planet. Part of me hopes he gets them to the Elite 8 or Final Four, they get knocked out and he says....I've had enough of the nonsense and he takes a job where he can do very well, dominate (i.e. Mark Few, Gregg Marshall) and not have to put up with the delusional grief. We'll see.
Would be quite ironic if he ends up Big Ten Coach of the Year with all the experts nationally and at Scoop saying again he would be fired. LOL
i agree-BUT, i will admit that i was a huge fan of TC until the last couple of years. good friend of mine's kid played for him and there were stories. this wasn't the type of kid who would make a big deal out of things as he was forever grateful for the chances he got. ok, that aside, TC could be really really good. great recruiter, but his motivational skills need some honing...and maybe some image stuff, but what the hey, everyone has their quirks-heyn'a
one thing-you have to admit-he knew when he took the indiana job, he knew he was walking into a potential buzz(whoops-no pun intended) saw. maybe he thought, this is a once in a life time chance and buddy tom Iz would give him a few pointers. and besides, the coin ain't bad
i would love to see him nestle into a just below the radar program and make them real good-that would be the true vindication, show some growth and go out with a good legacy
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He's lost on McDonald's All American for the season.
Biggest break the Hoosiers got all season was Blackmon's injury. Indiana has a bunch of guys who can shoot/score, Blackmon's just one more. But the guy was horrid on defense. He and the IU defense was killing the team (20 point loss to Duke, neutral court losses to Wake Forest and UNLV, narrow win against Rutgers). Once his minutes went to guys who gave some effort on D the Hoosiers took off.
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I would put a call in to Archie's older brother just to see if he would listen.
Tucson?
Indiana?
Not much to think about!
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Crean sucks, hey?
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i would love to see him nestle into a just below the radar program and make them real good-that would be the true vindication, show some growth and go out with a good legacy
If only there were a program that fit that description...
No one denies that Indiana fans are delusional. But they were delusional before Crean got there and will be delusional after he leaves. TC and his slurpers can't pretend like he's a victim of the fan-base if he walked in knowing exactly what he was getting (which he did). He just thought he could meet those loony demands because of his unmatched talent, but he hasn't, and probably never will. Call it hubris.
If he wanted to take an underrated program, make it great, and leave a lasting legacy, well, he left that opportunity behind in 2008.
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No one denies that Indiana fans are delusional. But they were delusional before Crean got there and will be delusional after he leaves. TC and his slurpers can't pretend like he's a victim of the fan-base if he walked in knowing exactly what he was getting (which he did). He just thought he could meet those loony demands because of his unmatched talent, but he hasn't, and probably never will. Call it hubris.
If he wanted to take an underrated program, make it great, and leave a lasting legacy, well, he left that opportunity behind in 2008.
This - It's Indiana, It's Indiana
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If only there were a program that fit that description...
No one denies that Indiana fans are delusional. But they were delusional before Crean got there and will be delusional after he leaves. TC and his slurpers can't pretend like he's a victim of the fan-base if he walked in knowing exactly what he was getting (which he did). He just thought he could meet those loony demands because of his unmatched talent, but he hasn't, and probably never will. Call it hubris.
If he wanted to take an underrated program, make it great, and leave a lasting legacy, well, he left that opportunity behind in 2008.
There are dozens of coaches that would have gone from Marquette to Indiana. I am not a "slurper" by any means, but it is no more hubris than any other coach taking a "next level job."
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There are dozens of coaches that would have gone from Marquette to Indiana. I am not a "slurper" by any means, but it is no more hubris than any other coach taking a "next level job."
Sure. Lots of coaches would take a next level job and believe it would work out. But that coach/his supporters can't complaint that he isn't getting a fair shake when outsize expectations are precisely what the next level job entailed.
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Sure. Lots of coaches would take a next level job and believe it would work out. But that coach/his supporters can't complaint that he isn't getting a fair shake when outsize expectations are precisely what the next level job entailed.
I don't disagree that he knew what he was getting into. I am hardly turning him into a victim here.
I just don't think he had any more "hubris" than other coaches do when they take those jobs. Bill Self going to Kansas. John Calipari going to Kentucky. Shaka Smart going to Texas. All of them have to be confident in their abilities or else they will fail.
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If only there were a program that fit that description...
No one denies that Indiana fans are delusional. But they were delusional before Crean got there and will be delusional after he leaves. TC and his slurpers can't pretend like he's a victim of the fan-base if he walked in knowing exactly what he was getting (which he did). He just thought he could meet those loony demands because of his unmatched talent, but he hasn't, and probably never will. Call it hubris.
If he wanted to take an underrated program, make it great, and leave a lasting legacy, well, he left that opportunity behind in 2008.
I worked at IU under Knight. Yes, they are delusional. The thing is, IU was IU because of Knight, in my opinion. Sure they won two titles with Branch McCracken, but that was a different era entirely. I've spoken to Fred Glass many times....he has strong connections to Marquette...his dad went to MU, his son went to IU. Glass knows how many quality coaches wanted no part of IU because of the stupidity of the fan base. He put it in much more eloquent and political words than I did, but the point is that their fans are ridiculous and seem to have forgotten the wandering abyss they have been in for decades. The last 6 years under Knight were nothing special, then all the controversy, etc.
He's (Crean) done an amazing job to rebuild the program, perfect APR scores, two Big Ten titles, etc. I think (and predicted a few years ago) that he leaves on his own. I don't think Joanie likes the craziness. We'll see what happens, but there is a reason why a bunch of very good coaches don't take some of these jobs anymore, because the money difference isn't that great and the pressure not nearly as stupid.
At any rate, happy for another Big Ten title. Hope they get healthy, they are a fun fun team to watch. Happier to watch the MU haters have to choke on another prediction...an annual rite of passage.
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Their fans are not a joke. THEY DON'T LIKE HIM! nobody wants a player or coach on their team who they cannot stand. It's the exact same scenario when he was at Marquette. Nobody wants him fronting their program because he's creepy and peculiar.
The Puerto Rican nailed it: Win or lose Tanned Tommy is a strange f#ck.
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Crean's best coaching job since the Amigo's. IMO, the first time his team's have overachieved their talent since that year. He has cooled his seat.
I said better, as he had some major, lingering off court issues that affected the early season on court performance. Included in this was losing players for misconduct late and injuries.
I think the public wake up call with the team breaking the rules caused him to tighten the grip and focus. Hopefully his ego stays in check as it made him a better coach. We'll see.
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i agree-BUT, i will admit that i was a huge fan of TC until the last couple of years. good friend of mine's kid played for him and there were stories. this wasn't the type of kid who would make a big deal out of things as he was forever grateful for the chances he got. ok, that aside, TC could be really really good. great recruiter, but his motivational skills need some honing...and maybe some image stuff, but what the hey, everyone has their quirks-heyn'a
one thing-you have to admit-he knew when he took the indiana job, he knew he was walking into a potential buzz(whoops-no pun intended) saw. maybe he thought, this is a once in a life time chance and buddy tom Iz would give him a few pointers. and besides, the coin ain't bad
i would love to see him nestle into a just below the radar program and make them real good-that would be the true vindication, show some growth and go out with a good legacy
I used to work with a guy that was a manager at San Diego State and played with Ryan Amoroso at SDSU. Lots of fun stories, no doubt. Of course there are some great ones about KO, MD, many I saw in person....same for Majerus, etc.
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The Puerto Rican nailed it: Win or lose Tanned Tommy is a strange f#ck.
He is absolutely strange, no denying it. Many head coaches are.
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Interesting company - Big Ten champs
2012 Jon B, Tom Izzo, Thad Matta
2013 Tom Crean
2014 Jon B.
2015 Bo Ryan
2016 Tom Crean
Who would have thought Ryan or Izzo only shows up there one time the last five years and that TC and Jon B show up their twice?
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He is absolutely strange, no denying it. Many head coaches are.
The Bronze Beast is not just strange but weird in a nasty, someone got picked on as a kid way.
His antics - pushing a woman who didn't make copies precisely as he specified, kissing his son on the lips, carting out that guy in a wheelchair as a stage prop - defy understanding.
Bert is a weird f#ck but not in the same demented way as Tanned Tommy. Crean is a nasty sonuvabitch without the stones to back it up.
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T-Cubed is kinda like a dude Maurice Lucas would hold out da 8th floor window of McCormick by his ankles, ai na?
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I worked at IU under Knight. Yes, they are delusional. The thing is, IU was IU because of Knight, in my opinion. Sure they won two titles with Branch McCracken, but that was a different era entirely. I've spoken to Fred Glass many times....he has strong connections to Marquette...his dad went to MU, his son went to IU. Glass knows how many quality coaches wanted no part of IU because of the stupidity of the fan base. He put it in much more eloquent and political words than I did, but the point is that their fans are ridiculous and seem to have forgotten the wandering abyss they have been in for decades. The last 6 years under Knight were nothing special, then all the controversy, etc.
He's (Crean) done an amazing job to rebuild the program, perfect APR scores, two Big Ten titles, etc. I think (and predicted a few years ago) that he leaves on his own. I don't think Joanie likes the craziness. We'll see what happens, but there is a reason why a bunch of very good coaches don't take some of these jobs anymore, because the money difference isn't that great and the pressure not nearly as stupid.
At any rate, happy for another Big Ten title. Hope they get healthy, they are a fun fun team to watch. Happier to watch the MU haters have to choke on another prediction...an annual rite of passage.
I agree, to an extent. Don't think money doesn't outweigh risk at some point. Pitino to Louisville? Shaka to Texas? Pressure comes with any D1 coaching job. Whether IU or Wichita State. Any coach using the money vs. pressure claim isn't fit for a D1 job and I certainly don't want them at MU.
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T-Cubed is kinda like a dude Maurice Lucas would hold out da 8th floor window of McCormick by his ankles, ai na?
A Marquette legend worth repeating!
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The Bronze Beast is not just strange but weird in a nasty, someone got picked on as a kid way.
His antics - pushing a woman who didn't make copies precisely as he specified, kissing his son on the lips, carting out that guy in a wheelchair as a stage prop - defy understanding.
Bert is a weird f#ck but not in the same demented way as Tanned Tommy. Crean is a nasty sonuvabitch without the stones to back it up.
Kissing his son on the lips....something I've seen 1000's of times....honestly, don't know why you are hung up on that one. Maybe it's a generational thing, or a regional thing. The wheelchair thing was beyond weird, but also encouraged by the family. The woman copies? No idea what you are talking about. I have far worse stories than those.
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I agree, to an extent. Don't think money doesn't outweigh risk at some point. Pitino to Louisville? Shaka to Texas? Pressure comes with any D1 coaching job. Whether IU or Wichita State. Any coach using the money vs. pressure claim isn't fit for a D1 job and I certainly don't want them at MU.
I've heard that often, but the pressure at MU or Wichita State is far different than the pressure at a blue blood and others. There's pressure and then there's idiocy...I put IU in the idiocy category.
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Crean sucks
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Kissing his son on the lips....something I've seen 1000's of times....honestly, don't know why you are hung up on that one. Maybe it's a generational thing, or a regional thing. The wheelchair thing was beyond weird, but also encouraged by the family. The woman copies? No idea what you are talking about. I have far worse stories than those.
My wife was at a thing they had at The AL and Crean was upset with an admin and gave her a shove after berating her right in front of a group of alums. She was among more than a few who left immediately.
Kissing a teenaged male on the lips is not something I would do.
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Interesting company - Big Ten champs
2012 Jon B, Tom Izzo, Thad Matta
2013 Tom Crean
2014 Jon B.
2015 Bo Ryan
2016 Tom Crean
Who would have thought Ryan or Izzo only shows up there one time the last five years and that TC and Jon B show up their twice?
How many times has Crean been able to hang up a FF banner at II, II compared to Izzo at MSU?
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Crean sucks
This will never, ever get old
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How many times has Crean been able to hang up a FF banner at II, II compared to Izzo at MSU?
Zero, which is why I said it was crazy not to have him in that list.
How many times have we hung a FF banner at MU, MU since he has left?
Same answer.
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Zero, which is why I said it was crazy not to have him in that list.
How many times have we hung a FF banner at MU, MU since he has left?
Same answer.
Buzz won 8 NCAA tournament games at MU. In that time Crean won 4 at IU. Times that Crean won more NCAA tournament games in a season than Buzz? Zero.
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Buzz won 8 NCAA tournament games at MU. In that time Crean won 4 at IU. Times that Crean won more NCAA tournament games in a season than Buzz? Zero.
You're correct. Marquette hasn't hung a Final Four banner since Tom Crean.
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You're correct. Marquette hasn't hung a Final Four banner since Tom Crean.
And Indiana hasn't hung one since Mike Davis#Crapshoot
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And Indiana hasn't hung one since Mike Davis#Crapshoot
You're correct. Marquette hasn't hung a Final Four banner since Tom Crean.
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You're correct. Marquette hasn't hung a Final Four banner since Tom Crean.
You're correct. Tom Crean made it to the second weekend once in 9 seasons at Marquette. Buzz made it 3 time in 6.
Crean had the most successful season of the two. Buzz had the most successful career.
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You're correct. Marquette hasn't hung a Final Four banner since Tom Crean.
Who knew this thread was about Buzz Williams until Lenny came along....so many people predicting so many bad things and so wrong over the years.
I'll stick with my predictions that Buzz will do fine at Va Tech, just as TC will at IU.