This is my one and only series of comments about the Iowa game. I'm thinking about a one-week holiday from Scoop, since I think LSU will be equally bad Monday night.
1) The game was really ugly. I mean, really ugly. As in, refund our money ugly! We did not come to play and it really showed.
2) Our guys were intimidated by Iowa. It was obvious from the get-go that we just cowered under. We honestly looked at them and seemed afraid of them. Some of that is freshmen being freshmen and some of it is simply the "holy BIG Batman" attitude. You could see the frustration and fear in the foul differential in the first half.
3) It seemed too obvious that our guys forgot they're not in high school anymore. Especially Henry Ellenson. When in the first half things were going really bad, Henry tried to make something happen on his own. Iowa saw it coming -- probably from reading the press clippings about how great this guy is -- and doubled him. Henry couldn't go to the bathroom without two Iowa defenders removing his pants! Henry needs to stop bringing the ball up the floor -- he's not helping us doing that -- and focus on his "down under" play. He also at times needs to realize he's not at Rice Lake High anymore and he can't do it alone.
4) What happened to the mid-range, 12 foot to 15 foot jump shot? It exists and using screens and pull-up dribble drives should have been enough to open up a few of these plays. I didn't see many. Did you?
5) Luke Fischer staying in the game is really important to this team. I mean, really important. When he was gone with his third and then his fourth foul, the team was totally lost. Heldt is not a suitable replacement -- yet -- and is not ready for Marquette prime time.
6) Wojo didn't do his guys any favors after the game either. Look, we know they laid an egg last night, but you don't go on the Homer and Mac show after the game and criticize our guys for lack of effort and apologize to our fans. Not when your team is a group of freshmen. You do that in private and you tell Homer and Mac, "we have a lot of work to do -- and fast." Our guys made a lot of mistakes -- my dog knows that -- but we're having these guys for three and four years. Let's be careful out there, so we don't slaughter the golden goose.
7) I know the game was a late start and we were getting blown out and all, but out of respect for the team and out guys, you don't boo 18-year-olds and you don't leave at halftime. I was embarrassed at the fact that with 10:00 minutes left in the game, there were a handful of students in the student section behind the north basket not in the band. That's not a good sign and a good show of support for the team.
8) At times last night, I felt like I was watching five Jamil Wilsons out there. As in, "drive the basket once in awhile," will you! For those of you who try to forget, Jamil was an incredibly talented player who did not want to get his hands dirty, so he spent his Marquette career shooting threes from the mid-court line. An NBA talent coming in. A playground special going out.
9) I take solace in the fact that in the past few years, we had good moments even though we were slaughtered by the likes of Ohio State, Florida, Vanderbilt and others. It's only one night and I know we can't get any worse!
Last night will be corrected in the course of time. I hope that next year or the year after, when we're hopefully really good, we'll laugh at this one. In the meantime, I'm just screaming!
Disagree with #6. I was happy to hear what he said. It was the cleanest way to say we played like s**t. I liked that he owned up to us not doing a single thing well. There was no way or reason to try and put a bow on that.
As a fan I would've been more frustrated if I felt he didn't acknowledge how terrible that game was. I could feel how pissed he was and that made me feel better. This team will get better or at least play with some more intensity.
Quote from: MU gimp ONE on November 20, 2015, 08:04:05 AM
Disagree with #6. I was happy to hear what he said. It was the cleanest way to say we played like s**t. I liked that he owned up to us not doing a single thing well. There was no way or reason to try and put a bow on that.
As a fan I would've been more frustrated if I felt he didn't acknowledge how terrible that game was. I could feel how pissed he was and that made me feel better. This team will get better or at least play with some more intensity.
(http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Yep-GIF.gif)
QuoteI was embarrassed at the fact that with 10:00 minutes left in the game, there were a handful of students in the student section behind the north basket not in the band. That's not a good sign and a good show of support for the team.
I will admit, we left at the under 8:00 TV timeout. But to be fair, it was the third 8:00 game in less than a week we had driven 100 miles each way to see, and I have to get up at 5:30 to go to work.
Quote from: MU gimp ONE on November 20, 2015, 08:04:05 AM
Disagree with #6. I was happy to hear what he said. It was the cleanest way to say we played like s**t. I liked that he owned up to us not doing a single thing well. There was no way or reason to try and put a bow on that.
As a fan I would've been more frustrated if I felt he didn't acknowledge how terrible that game was. I could feel how pissed he was and that made me feel better. This team will get better or at least play with some more intensity.
Praise in public, criticize in private. It's management 101. You can acknowledge the game was terrible without saying the guys lacked effort.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 20, 2015, 07:11:16 AM
6) Wojo didn't do his guys any favors after the game either. Look, we know they laid an egg last night, but you don't go on the Homer and Mac show after the game and criticize our guys for lack of effort and apologize to our fans. Not when your team is a group of freshmen. You do that in private and you tell Homer and Mac, "we have a lot of work to do -- and fast." Our guys made a lot of mistakes -- my dog knows that -- but we're having these guys for three and four years. Let's be careful out there, so we don't slaughter the golden goose.
7) I know the game was a late start and we were getting blown out and all, but out of respect for the team and out guys, you don't boo 18-year-olds and you don't leave at halftime. I was embarrassed at the fact that with 10:00 minutes left in the game, there were a handful of students in the student section behind the north basket not in the band. That's not a good sign and a good show of support for the team.
I left at halftime. I've had season tickets since 1993 and that's the first time i have ever done that. And to me the lone bright spot was reading Wojo's comments about the effort. Those kinds of comments are why I will be back in my seat for Jackson State.
I'm going to disagree with #6 and part of #7. I didn't hear any of the radio call after we left or the post game but to say anything other that what he apparently said taking the blame for his team not being prepared would be disingenuous. And while I wholeheartedly agree with not booing 18 year old kids, no one had an obligation to stay and watch that crap. Wojo specifically asked the students to come out in a letter yesterday afternoon. They did. Their commitment was not reciprocated so they and the rest of the fans went home. That's on Wojo and the team. Nobody else.
jsglow, I agree, Wojo should be taking the blame for the team not being prepared. However it should end there. Don't put it on them publicly, put it on yourself. Then tear them a new one in private.
The team isn't owed support. The team has to earn support. I would have left at halftime too.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2015, 08:47:30 AM
jsglow, I agree, Wojo should be taking the blame for the team not being prepared. However it should end there. Don't put it on them publicly, put it on yourself. Then tear them a new one in private.
Again, I didn't hear the interview so I'm not sure how it went down. Of course one risks 'losing the team' if one goes too far.
I was actually encouraged by what I saw in Heldt last night. I mean he's clearly not ready but just looking at his play he seemed willing to actually get physical and dive around.
I couldn't agree with #4 more. We actually have decent pull up shooters, JJJ and Duane and Henry all showed it yesterday but then we'd go right back to 3s. It's terrible.
Maybe he's been criticizing privately for weeks to no avail and going public was his last straw.
I'm fine with booing (people pay, they can do whatever they want within reason,) and I'm fine with criticism from the coach because I assume he knows his team. I will say, however, that Wojo has not exactly wowed with in-game strategies/adjustments. What exactly was the game plan? What adjustments were made? During a tv TO in the 1st half, Wojo was imploring passes into the post, but then MU came out and continued jacking ill-advised threes and bad drives to the basket. He sort of just let it happen.
As for Ellenson, he better get used to being double and tripled teamed. Deal with it and figure it out (I bet he does.)
Iowa is a good team, but they aren't as good as we made them look.
He didn't call anyone out specifically like Bert used to do, so it wasn't as harsh as it could have been. He was honest and I respect that. He has been trying to get effort all season, this is a boiling point. Time to call a spade a spade for him.
Quote from: MU gimp ONE on November 20, 2015, 09:01:52 AM
He didn't call anyone out specifically like Bert used to do, so it wasn't as harsh as it could have been. He was honest and I respect that. He has been trying to get effort all season, this is a boiling point. Time to call a spade a spade for him.
Look, I like his intensity. On the Homer and Mac show, you could hear the seething in Wojo's voice and you knew in your heart he wanted to go off. That's a guy who's heart is in the game.
But you should tell your fans things suck without saying things suck. Code phrases like, "we have a lot of work to do and not a lot of time to do it in," say it all. I'd prefer he did that because I'm fearful our young guys will perceive that Coach Wojo threw them under the bus. I doubt he did but a lot of these guys aren't used to be called out, much less called out in public.
Bottom line is we have a bunch of kids used to being high school studs. They get to college and play two teams in their first three games that are experienced, disciplined college teams. They get their heads handed to them. They can either go out and play as a team and stick to the plans and intensity Coach Wojo expects and probably learn to win. Or they can pop 3s from Wauwatosa and find themselves benched, replaced or otherwise not part of our next great tradition.
Booing your own team is always unacceptable imo. Unless they are doing something illegal or unethical. When are team is at its worst, thats when they need fan support the most. If you want to leave, I understand. I think its better to stay and support but understand that people have lives outside of basketball and if the product isn't good, its understandable that it would become less of a priority.
Maybe we allow WoJo to blame himself on saying he did not have rpthe team ready to play. But him blasting the effort is f e with me. The guys on the floor gave up - and we are not used to Marquette teams giving up. The effort was pitiful. WoJo was right.
I'm a season ticket holder too and drive up from Chicago for all the games. The drives are a lot longer going back when we play like this, but I stayed until the end and will never boo our own team. I didn't hear boos last night. Maybe I missed it.
He's not a world beater, and he's got a ways to go especially on D, but every game I get more and more excited about Cheatham. He's fearless, he hustles, and is playing out of position at times but still makes things happen. He's a star in the making.
Quote from: Daniel on November 20, 2015, 10:47:33 AM
I'm a season ticket holder too and drive up from Chicago for all the games. The drives are a lot longer going back when we play like this, but I stayed until the end and will never boo our own team. I didn't hear boos last night. Maybe I missed it.
I'm a five-pack holder and I probably go to seven total games in a year. I also drive up from Chicago and I wanted to see Iowa because I lived in the Quad Cities for four years (years ago) and my in-laws are from Iowa. So I kinda have a small warm spot for the school's teams and I like Iowa fans. They're committed to their teams.
You missed the Boos -- they were there. I won't boo our guys either because they're amateurs playing for the love of the game. They're getting a college education and maybe three of the 12 guys on our team might have a shot at the NBA. Maybe. They're kids, period.
If I'm disgusted with the lack of effort and there was a time when I was with our teams, I don't go as often as when I think they're trying.
I don't blame the students for leaving. They showed up in bunches tonight which was great. I've always prided myself with never leaving a game early but I couldn't take it anymore. First game I ever left early and I almost did it at half time. (Managed to stay to the under 16) I was just getting angry and wasn't enjoying myself so I wasn't gonna stay for another terrible half of basketball.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 20, 2015, 08:12:18 AM
I will admit, we left at the under 8:00 TV timeout. But to be fair, it was the third 8:00 game in less than a week we had driven 100 miles each way to see, and I have to get up at 5:30 to go to work.
No apology needed. In the real world of adults there are consequences for poor performance. It is a very, very hard lesson but one that must be experienced. Those with strength of charactrr become stronger with adversity (Jimmy, Jae). We will see what this team is made of. It takes more than talent to win in life and as freshman now is the time to learn. In fact, your leaving may have help some in their development.
I fail to see how me sitting in my seat seething over my team's performance, making snide, sarcastic and derogatory comments is any way beneficial to the program.
This was some next-level bad that we are talking about here. You are free to criticize me for bailing at the half, down 27. If you want to sit quietly and watch that performance I question your idea of paid entertainment, but applaud your loyalty. I believe it was much better for me, everyone around me, and the entire MU community that I left and walked into the welcoming arms of three ounces of Maker's Mark poured over a nice ice cube.
dgies9156- How can you say that. Yep, I mentioned number 3 a while back and got my head chopped off. This is not Rice Lake and they do not play in a tough conference.
Also, we need extensive practice on our 3-point shot. Cohen seems to be the only reliable.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on November 20, 2015, 01:01:04 PM
Also, we need extensive practice on our 3-point shot. Cohen seems to be the only reliable.
Um, Sandy was 1-5 from 3 last night.
Your 3rd point is very true. This is not High School. Stop with the coast to coast . I don't think he has converted anything doing that. Usually led to a turnover because he had nowhere to go.
Quote from: connie on November 20, 2015, 01:03:19 PM
Um, Sandy was 1-5 from 3 last night.
That is reliable for us. 8-)
Quote from: connie on November 20, 2015, 01:03:19 PM
Um, Sandy was 1-5 from 3 last night.
But is 39% on the season. Cheatham is also 40% on the season. It's Duane, Henry, and Traci dragging us down. They will figure it out.
The biggest red flag last night (I was in attendance) was the sight of a bunch of people (students and alumni) having left at halftime (when the game was clearly out of reach). There was a bunch of students near us, and their POV was basically, "Meh, we suck again, and we won't continue to come to games like this."
If/when attendance starts falling, THAT is the biggest issue. No matter what kind of recruits the coaching staff gets, or how old the team is, or who the opponent is, the only thing that matters is that fans need to be coming to games. If the product is as terrible as last night's was throughout the season like that (and, personally, I think there hasn't been any improvement on several fronts during the first three games), then Marquette has one seriously big problem.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 20, 2015, 01:13:06 PM
But is 39% on the season. Cheatham is also 40% on the season. It's Duane, Henry, and Traci dragging us down. They will figure it out.
I know. Just feeling snarky.
Good things are to come with team. They will improve for a number of reasons, not the least of which being there is almost nowhere to go but up.
Maybe some of our more unrealistic expectations will be recalibrated as a result of this. I will continue to hold out hope for that.
The worst part about beat-downs like the one MU suffered last night is that it makes Scoop an intolerable place to visit.
It's like when you walk into your favorite bar to find that they've decided to fill the jukebox with country music.
Quote from: barfolomew on November 20, 2015, 02:56:24 PM
Good things are to come with team. They will improve for a number of reasons, not the least of which being there is almost nowhere to go but up.
Maybe some of our more unrealistic expectations will be recalibrated as a result of this. I will continue to hold out hope for that.
The worst part about beat-downs like the one MU suffered last night is that it makes Scoop an intolerable place to visit.
It's like when you walk into your favorite bar to find that they've decided to fill the jukebox with country music.
If Scoop is intolerable then I'd suggest that the product thus far has been intolerable. What is the proper emotions people who frequent this forum should have and express here? I understand being inexperienced, but one has to wonder how these kids can look so unprepared to suit up. Our offense consists of standing around the perimeter with little ball movement and less player movement until the clock runs down and someone forces a bad shot. Our defense is even worse to the point that simply mentioning it elicits frustration. Henry and Luke are going to get destroyed by the physical big men in conference. Just wait until Dunn and Archie get a chance to carve up our perimeter defenders.
Let's be honest and admit that the last two plus seasons have been difficult to deal with from a fan standpoint. As frustrating as the 13-14 season was, at least that year our then coach got his imperfect roster to come prepared and play hard. I don't care if the kids lose every damn game if it appears as if they're gaining an understanding of how to play D1 basketball but thus far it seems our team looks like a bunch of kids who can't swim who all got dropped in the deep end and the lifeguard on duty is ill prepared to get them to safety.