I'm disappointed in how this season has started too...but I'm even more disappointed in the people who are already calling for our coach's head three games into his second season. "Fire Wojo"? "We blew the hire"?
Wow. Just unreal how quickly people bail when things aren't going well.
Worse than being angry is being apathetic. 3rd consecutive year of irrelevant basketball means trending towards apathy. So, don't agree on calling for heads, but the alternative is not caring and suddenly were at the Al Center with 2500 fans playing against Carthage. With the passion comes some hyperbole.
We did NOT blow the hire. I am among the few that was disgusted at some of went on under BW. We won but I was not proud of my school. The Tribune stuff, transfers, the Newbill Roseboro stuff, graduation, we can do better and we will.
We have the right guy. But to do it the right way will require some patience. GIVE IT SOME TIME!!!
Its too early to say we blew the hire. Wojo could still get these guys playing. We are the third least experienced team in D1.
But there are definitely issues. Issues that are holding over not just from last year, but from when Buzz was here. After a night like this, a home performance as bad as we've seen in years, I don't think some sharp criticism is unwarranted.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 19, 2015, 11:30:44 PM
Its too early to say we blew the hire. Wojo could still get these guys playing. We are the third least experienced team in D1.
But there are definitely issues. Issues that are holding over not just from last year, but from when Buzz was here. After a night like this, a home performance as bad as we've seen in years, I don't think some sharp criticism is unwarranted.
Not much worse than OSU or Vandy to be honest.
What people aren't taking into consideration is that this could essentially be the same as the Florida game from a few years ago that kind of jump started our year.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 19, 2015, 11:38:15 PM
What people aren't taking into consideration is that this could essentially be the same as the Florida game from a few years ago that kind of jump started our year.
It's true, sometimes a whooping is what a team needs to get it in gear.
I'm not calling for anyone's head, but nearly as bad as overreacting one direction is playing Pollyanna and excusing another year of meaningless basketball.
We are going to completely piss away our one year with Henry. I get that we are young, but once he committed getting a senior transfer or Juco should have been a priority. Now we will be young and lose and then roll into next year trying to find a way to replace Henry (in fairness he did play poorly last night himself).
Of course it's too early to give up as suggested in some other threads. But do understand this, even loyal fans will now stay away in droves. That building will be largely empty until January. At Wojo's request, last night's crowd was sizeable and loud to start. But that chip has now been played.
this team has no clue on offense or defense. that is coaching. you don't talk about firing a coach 3 games into the season, but if at the end of the year things aren't much better i would have no problem seeing wojo go
Quote from: Marquette_g on November 20, 2015, 06:23:21 AM
I'm not calling for anyone's head, but nearly as bad as overreacting one direction is playing Pollyanna and excusing another year of meaningless basketball.
We are going to completely piss away our one year with Henry. I get that we are young, but once he committed getting a senior transfer or Juco should have been a priority. Now we will be young and lose and then roll into next year trying to find a way to replace Henry (in fairness he did play poorly last night himself).
Not taking a Pollyanna attitude. I want - and expect - this team to improve significantly over the next month. I recognize that this year's team has much more talent than last year's - at least on paper - and it is reasonable to expect Wojo to turn that in to a better result.
I'm just saying that this is the third game of the season...with a very young roster and a coach who is still learning. If we are still getting blasted like this in January, I will be complaining as loudly as anyone. But game three? Really?
I am glad that all of the players have already gotten their worst individual performances of the year out of the way already. :)
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 19, 2015, 11:38:15 PM
Not much worse than OSU or Vandy to be honest.
What people aren't taking into consideration is that this could essentially be the same as the Florida game from a few years ago that kind of jump started our year.
OSU was bad, but our defense in that game was pretty good.
My problem with embracing that way of thinking, while it may be true, is we've seen no evidence to indicate that's possible. After Vandy, after Florida, we already knew Buzz could coach. We knew we had guys on those teams that could be key pieces on winning NCAA teams because they had already done it. What do we know about this team?
We know that the coach failed last year to install a man defense, and with his own guys this year has failed to get anyone to play man defense, with our only real success on defense coming when we reverted against a zone to eke by IUPUI in overtime. We know that this team is taking a ton of threes despite shooting 21.7% collectively, and that two of the top three in terms of attempts are shooting under 18%. Why are they taking so many threes they can't make, and why is the staff allowing that? We know that no one is playing an efficient point guard, with Duane looking the best so far. We know that we are turning it over too much.
I could be a lot more optimistic if this staff had given me something to be optimistic about in the past. I sincerely hope they start coaching these guys up and getting results. But right now it really looks like the problem isn't just on the court but also on the sideline. There's a lot for this team to prove to convince the skeptics, and this first week hasn't proven much of anything positive.
Quote from: Sylvester78 on November 19, 2015, 11:05:16 PM
We did NOT blow the hire. I am among the few that was disgusted at some of went on under BW. We won but I was not proud of my school. The Tribune stuff, transfers, the Newbill Roseboro stuff, graduation, we can do better and we will.
We have the right guy. But to do it the right way will require some patience. GIVE IT SOME TIME!!!
Meh. This stuff makes me chuckle. I'm not saying you recruit convicts (Buzz didn't), but the moral high ground stuff is funny. Just win. If you need to cut someone because he can't hack it, or someone better comes along, cut em. It's the way of high major CbB.
That said..I think Wojo needs more time. This team has a ton of talent, but they're soft as hell.
We really needed a couple grad transfers, and Wojo missed the boat. I'm glad he went for the top tier of guys, but when he missed, he should have been on some of the guys below the top few. They could have been had, and their experience is oh so needed.
My freshman year at MU was 2008. Prior to that I didn't follow MU. It was a hell of a ride for Buzzs first 5 years..but these last two have been tough to watch. I really hope we become relavent again soon, because it's tough to get excited right now.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 20, 2015, 08:09:56 AMWe really needed a couple grad transfers, and Wojo missed the boat. I'm glad he went for the top tier of guys, but when he missed, he should have been on some of the guys below the top few. They could have been had, and their experience is oh so needed.
Even JUCOs would have been a help. We needed guys who had played at a higher level and had an edge of toughness to them. These guys just don't have that yet. It seemed like after we missed on Lee and Miller, the staff was somewhat resigned to going forward with what they had. Right now, that's looking like a mistake.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2015, 08:22:03 AM
Even JUCOs would have been a help. We needed guys who had played at a higher level and had an edge of toughness to them. These guys just don't have that yet. It seemed like after we missed on Lee and Miller, the staff was somewhat resigned to going forward with what they had. Right now, that's looking like a mistake.
I agree that one or two Jucos and/or grad transfers could have helped this young team. But if you target the guys you think can help and they go elsewhere, how far down the list do you go before you're doing more harm than good? We don't need more warm bodies on the bench - we need more guys who are ready for prime time. Get too far down the juco list, and you won't get that....
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2015, 08:22:03 AM
Even JUCOs would have been a help. We needed guys who had played at a higher level and had an edge of toughness to them. These guys just don't have that yet. It seemed like after we missed on Lee and Miller, the staff was somewhat resigned to going forward with what they had. Right now, that's looking like a mistake.
Yep
I keep reading how much talent we have, but that remains to be seen. Based on recruit rankings sure, but after three games they need to prove that it translates to on court success.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 20, 2015, 08:28:15 AM
I agree that one or two Jucos and/or grad transfers could have helped this young team. But if you target the guys you think can help and they go elsewhere, how far down the list do you go before you're doing more harm than good? We don't need more warm bodies on the bench - we need more guys who are ready for prime time. Get too far down the juco list, and you won't get that....
We didn't go very far down that list. We pursued Maurice O'Field and missed out. Fine. But why not Shakir Brown (averaging 20.5/9.5 for JMU) or Deshawn Freeman (averaging 12.3/5.0 for Rutgers)? There were a lot of names we didn't pursue actively once we missed out on the grad transfers. And looking at how much our inexperience seems to be biting us in the backside, I don't think we'd have had to go that far to find guys that would help us right now.
Fear not - only a couple more years until Thurl Bailey's kid arrives to help Matt Heldt out.
Quote from: ASMU on November 20, 2015, 09:21:41 AM
Fear not - only a couple more years until Thurl Bailey's kid arrives to help Matt Heldt out.
No more glaring evidence of the difference between HS ball and college than how lost Heldt was out there. He's gonna be a solid player but my goodness he was clueless.