My friend Lenny's Tap posted this today:
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 18, 2015, 12:15:40 PM
dg-
You're wrong. I was there (I think you were too) and I was a fanatical supporter who never missed a game. Criticism of Al didn't come early when he was rescusitating a program that was on life support when he arrived. It was AFTER Al had established himself and MU was a powerhouse that the critics arrived.
Some were the entitled folks who weren't around for or chose not to remember the horrid condition of MU basketball when Al took over. Others were the "Chico faction" who didn't like Al's recruiting (too poor, too black, too low SATs), his "Just win, baby" philosophy and his battles with the powerful folks in charge at the NCAA.
But again, my recollection is the critics didn't emerge until excellence on the court started to be taken for granted.
Wojo arrived in the midst of what we hope will continue to be our second best era in MU history. Like the last 8 or 9 years in the McGuire era the fan base is a bit entitled. Right or wrong, the entitled will always be quicker to criticize.
First of all Lenny, as much as I loved Al, I hope this is the BEST era of Marquette basketball! The Lord and I have a deal. I aint coming home until we get another NCAA Championship!
That said, I wondered what our fathers and grandfathers would have said about Al if Scoop and the Internet existed in Al's time. Some thoughts caused my mind to wander:
1964 -- OK all six Grandfatherly Scoopers would have screamed about whether we should have given the job to Hank or about how a cold weather urban school from Milwaukee could never compete with UCLA, Kentucky and the like.
1967 -- What are we doing in the NIT? Why didn't we make the NCAA this year? Can Al make the big one? Also, "So we got Thompson. What's next?" And finally, "How could we lose to Southern Illinois. I mean... they're a mid-major from nowheresville in downstate Illinois.
1968 -- Why is Al aggravating a nice man like Adolph Rupp?
1969 -- When will we learn to hit our free throws? One shot away from the Final Four and we can hit a frickin free throw (Rick Cobb against Purdue). And then we lose in OT to Purdue because we can't put a body on Rick Mount!
1970 -- NIT? Again? We're better than that? What was Al thinking? With this talent, we should have been Final Four material?
1971 -- Doesn't Allie know where the out-of-bounds line is? Shoot, haven't been in the NCAA in two years and we can't find the out-of-bounds line in Georgia.
1972 -- HIROSHIMA! Chones leaves for the ABA. Couldn't Al talk him out of it?
1973 -- NAGASAKI! Larry McNeill leaves for the NBA? Can't we recruit someone other than these three and done players?
1974 -- AL AL AL. Just sit down and shut up! We'd be national champions! UGHHHHH! Maurice Lucas leaves for the NBA! Can't we just recruit guys who stay with us. What did Al do this time?
1976 -- We can't win the big one.
1977 -- We're not even going to make the tournament! What a bummer.....
You get the picture. It would not be pretty.
Hope all you want. This era isn't going to end with Marquette having the second best winning percentage in college basketball.
Hopefully, it will include another national championship. An eternity spent on Scoop could seem extra long.
Lenny--I do not disbelieve you that there may have been a faction that criticized McGuire's recruitment practices--but my money says it was a small faction. I have been a fan since the mid 50's, and admittedly did not closely follow the program from about 67-70, but never heard those criticisms. There may have been a few, but I doubt that it was a sizable faction.
The criticism of Al should of been:
1. Choosing to go to NIT after barely missing final 4 the year before.
2. Not adjusting the game plan when Ohio St. was setting up to take charges on Meminger on inbounds plays.
3. Getting too many technicals.
Outside of that it was pretty much seashells & balloons.
He was 8-18 his first year, which was double the wins the year before.
Side note: I was recently blessed with my 8th grandchild
Quote from: willie warrior on November 18, 2015, 03:28:06 PM
Lenny--I do not disbelieve you that there may have been a faction that criticized McGuire's recruitment practices--but my money says it was a small faction. I have been a fan since the mid 50's, and admittedly did not closely follow the program from about 67-70, but never heard those criticisms. There may have been a few, but I doubt that it was a sizable faction.
Willie - it was a small faction, miniscule in Al's first 6 or 7 years. But Al stood up for his (mostly black) players and battled with the likes of Adolph Rupp and and the NCAA bigwigs. Just like today, some MU fans wanted more tradionals, fewer jucos and a more "respectful" coach. Didn't like what they foolishly might call "Just win, baby".
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 18, 2015, 03:17:37 PM
My friend Lenny's Tap posted this today:
First of all Lenny, as much as I loved Al, I hope this is the BEST era of Marquette basketball! The Lord and I have a deal. I aint coming home until we get another NCAA Championship!
We might win that national championship, but we'll never have a run (1 title, 1 runner up, 2 elite 8s, 4 sweet 16s, 1 NCAA first round and 1 NIT title) that Al had.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 18, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
Willie - it was a small faction, miniscule in Al's first 6 or 7 years. But Al stood up for his (mostly black) players and battled with the likes of Adolph Rupp and and the NCAA bigwigs. Just like today, some MU fans wanted more tradionals, fewer jucos and a more "respectful" coach. Didn't like what they foolishly might call "Just win, baby".
I was young than, but I did not have trouble with Al recruiting black players. The first thing I wanted to know if the player was black or white. That was because generally the white players were not good and the black players were under Al.
Quote from: bilsu on November 18, 2015, 04:15:20 PM
I was young than, but I did not have trouble with Al recruiting black players. The first thing I wanted to know if the player was black or white. That was because generally the white players were not good and the black players were under Al.
Not sure I completely agree with that. I think there were code words for Marquette in those days, including such phrases as, "those guys play like thugs." Our guys played tough, take-no-prisoners defense and that rattled fans of finesse ball. It also did not help any that we destroyed Pistol Pete and LSU when we played them in 1970.
I admire our guys in the 1960s and early 1970s the way I admire Perry Wallace at Vanderbilt. Al and his teams were among the leaders in looking past ridiculous prejudice and getting people who simply could "do the job." Those guys were special, both as people and as ballplayers.
Quote from: bilsu on November 18, 2015, 04:15:20 PM
I was young than, but I did not have trouble with Al recruiting black players. The first thing I wanted to know if the player was black or white. That was because generally the white players were not good and the black players were under Al.
Tell that to Gary Bell and others
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 18, 2015, 04:31:40 PM
I think there were code words for Marquette in those days, including such phrases as, "those guys play like thugs."
There are still code words for black athletes (and blacks in general) at Marquette and everywhere else. "Thugs" is one of them.
Quote from: MU82 on November 19, 2015, 11:12:22 AM
There are still code words for black athletes (and blacks in general) at Marquette and everywhere else. "Thugs" is one of them.
You may be right, but the first person that comes to my mind when I think of a thug on the basketball court is Bill Laimbeer.
Quote from: MU82 on November 19, 2015, 11:12:22 AM
There are still code words for black athletes (and blacks in general) at Marquette and everywhere else. "Thugs" is one of them.
See: JS comments section about "tatted" Marquette players. THAT WOULD NEVER FLY AT UW at Madison!
If you look at the pictures if Al's teams they were predominately white. His bench was almost always lily white.
Quote from: elephantraker on November 19, 2015, 11:07:29 AM
Tell that to Gary Bell and others
Boylan, Rosenberger, both Burkes, Homan, etc.
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 19, 2015, 11:16:39 AM
You may be right, but the first person that comes to my mind when I think of a thug on the basketball court is Bill Laimbeer.
+1000000000
[/and Kelly Tripuka!
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 19, 2015, 11:16:39 AM
You may be right, but the first person that comes to my mind when I think of a thug on the basketball court is Bill Laimbeer.
I think of tu Holloway
Wait sorry that's gangstas not thugs
http://youtu.be/XPXaoAZhbqg