MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GoldenWarrior11 on July 20, 2015, 05:22:26 PM
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Since it is summer, and news is few and far between, what are your thoughts on the Big East possibly expanding down the road (next year/5 years from now/10 years from now)? The Big 12 is a hot topic today for only having 10 members (purely from a football standpoint), and our conference is (I believe) the only other major conference with just 10 members.
I think that, in today's ever changing collegiate landscape, it was very wise for the Presidents, the conference and Val Ackerman to resist expanding for the sake of expansion when the league was reconfigured in 2013. 10 is a perfect number for basketball, as we are able to use the Round Robin format and it currently helps further promote and strengthen rivalries within our young (yet old) conference.
With that said, I think that expansion is inevitable for our conference. As of today, there are no "perfect-fit" expansion schools for the Big East (basketball-driven school, big city, Private/Catholic). I do think that Saint Louis and Dayton are, realistically, the top two targets if expansion is confirmed - despite whatever feelings you may have for either school. Saint Louis brings in a Jesuit school in a big market and Dayton brings one of the top followings in all of college basketball and a recent spike in success. SLU, however, is really down after the passing of Rick and Dayton doesn't bring a new market.
So, have at it. Should the Big East expand and, if so, what schools should be considered?
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No Dayton.
No SLU.
Yes Zags.
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The conference needs to get its chit together before there is any thought given to expansion, hey?
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Go with the dough. BU and Richmond.
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This idea has been discussed on this site many times. My view is that the Big East as presently configured is optimal. The double round robin schedule is very conducive to building rivalries. Our TV contract is excellent and over time there will be more viewers. Last season the conference was very competitive in the non conference schedule and we got six out of ten teams in the conference into the tournament . Lots of money for everyone.
Over time the conference will build a very good identity both athletically and academically.
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1. UConn
2. Massachusetts
But realistically, it's...
1. Whomever Fox wants
2. Whomever Fox wants
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No Dayton.
No SLU.
Yes Zags.
Sorry KEEFE, but while I respect Gonzaga and you, this is a BAD IDEA because:
1. league expansion is about more than Mens BB; it is about all team sports and the travel costs and time in transit {for all these BE schools and Gonzaga} is prohibitive; and
2. Gonzaga is in Wash.State, which the last time I looked, is a Pacific Coast state which is not a good BE "brand fit." There is enough press negativity toward our league now due to NBE's lack of NCAA success and this would just fuel the pundits making "fun" of the NBE.
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Not exactly BE Expansion related, but I occasionally comb The Boneyard, the UConn boards. They have a Conference Realignment section. Apparently and interestingly, the president of the University of Oklahoma has been squawking an awful lot lately that either the Big 12 expand now, start a Big 12 Network and for Texas to the drop the disastrous Longhorn Network or else they will be gone. Apparently the Texas AD said if you don't like it then leave. The speculation is they are quietly talking with the SEC or Big10. Apparently several B12 schools are in agreement with Oklahoma.
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1. UConn
2. Massachusetts
But realistically, it's...
1. Whomever Fox wants
2. Whomever Fox wants
I like it, but UConn's not dropping football anytime soon and they won't go independent because the AAC football schedule will still be better than they could put together independently.
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My 10 cents. Not caring one iota about practicality... but more about what I want to see to make a good hoops conference.
- Get ND back for everything but football
- Uconn
- St Louis
- Dayton
For me ND is the priority to build back the rivalry.
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My 10 cents. Not caring one iota about practicality... but more about what I want to see to make a good hoops conference.
- Get ND back for everything but football
- Uconn
- St Louis
- Dayton
For me ND is the priority to build back the rivalry.
ND is NOT leaving the ACC for the BE.
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The configuration is fine for now, but if they decide to expand then:
1) anyone but Dayton
2) I've come round to BU for market & school size & popularity and potential BB growth
3) I lean for a more East Coast presence so Richmond or VCU
4) I could live with St. Louis
5) I don't know who realistically else? Belmont is in Nashville and not too south. Davidson is maybe too small and too far outside Charlotte and too South? Any interesting schools in Florida?
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I want Dayton and SLU. But DF has the right of it. Whoever Fox wants.
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There are a lot of candidates, but there seems to be issues with almost all of them. I would rank the candidates:
1. UConn
2. Gonzaga
3. Memphis
4. VCU
5. Cincinnati
6. BYU
7. UMass
8. Wichita State
9. Temple
10. Dayton
11. Boston University
12. St. Louis
13. Richmond
I know people care about things like schools being private, being basketball only, and being geographically close. I don't. At all. There are really only 2 things that matter:
How many eyeballs do they bring?
How good are they at basketball?
As long as a team does those two things, everything else will fall into place.
St Louis, Richmond, and Boston U bring a lot of eyeballs (new media markets) but are really bad at basketball.
Temple and Dayton are decent at basketball but don't bring new media markets (X and NOVA).
Wichita State is good at basketball and brings a new media market but its a tiny one.
The top 7 are the ones you want to look at IMHO. The top 6 are very good at basketball and UMass is decent. All of them bring new large media markets (except Cincy but their fanbase and basketball chops make them worth it).
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Not exactly BE Expansion related, but I occasionally comb The Boneyard, the UConn boards. They have a Conference Realignment section. Apparently and interestingly, the president of the University of Oklahoma has been squawking an awful lot lately that either the Big 12 expand now, start a Big 12 Network and for Texas to the drop the disastrous Longhorn Network or else they will be gone. Apparently the Texas AD said if you don't like it then leave. The speculation is they are quietly talking with the SEC or Big10. Apparently several B12 schools are in agreement with Oklahoma.
I've heard some rumblings of that. But Oklahoma has been muttering about this for the past decade. I'm not sure if they will ever have the stones to pull the trigger. They should, my Aggies are doing just fine over here in the SEC 8-). The grass is really greener sometimes.
If they do, the fallout would be very interesting. Open season on either the B12 or AAC.
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No thanks, no thanks, no thanks.
We have the Big East television money for the next decade. Fox overpaid quite frankly. If anyone thinks adding a few more schools is going to cause Fox to come running to throw more money, it isn't happening most likely.
Gonzaga is silly. Relocate the school to Iowa and we can talk, otherwise not happening.
Keep it at 10, keep the revenues to 10 schools.
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I think you try to pick teams from states that you do not have a team in and that are connected to the foot print. St. Louis fills a gap between Illinois and Nebraska. Northern Iowa and Wichita St touch states that are already in the Big East. Same goes for Richmond or VCU. I would take Uconn even if they kept football. One or two football schools are not going to wreck the conference.
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Any school with a FBS program program should immediately be disregarded (UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, Temple, UMass). The schools already went down that path with schools like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville, and Notre Dame. They are not threatening the consistency, stability and strength of the reconfigured league with any football schools, period. Schools like Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, and St. Johns would have an even bigger issue with it - because they went through huge realignment phases three separate times (2003, 2005 and 2013).
UConn could, potentially, be made as an exception. They have history with the C7 schools, but they immediately jump ship once an invite from the B1G or ACC came. They wouldn't care about being in the Big East long term. That's not stability, that's convenience.
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Why are people advocating for expansion when Fox Sports isn't going to throw more money into the coffers?
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ABD
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No thanks, no thanks, no thanks.
We have the Big East television money for the next decade. Fox overpaid quite frankly. If anyone thinks adding a few more schools is going to cause Fox to come running to throw more money, it isn't happening most likely.
Gonzaga is silly. Relocate the school to Iowa and we can talk, otherwise not happening.
Keep it at 10, keep the revenues to 10 schools.
Bail Bonds is 100% correct on this one. Expansion does nothing for the BE but it does guarantee we get less money. None of these schools will generate enough revenues for us to go from 1/10th split of the current Fox contract to 1/11th or 1/12th.
There are a lot of candidates, but there seems to be issues with almost all of them. I would rank the candidates:
1. UConn
2. Gonzaga
3. Memphis
4. VCU
5. Cincinnati
6. BYU
7. UMass
8. Wichita State
9. Temple
10. Dayton
11. Boston University
12. St. Louis
13. Richmond
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I'm all for expanding if there is a school that can add something to the conference and is interested in joining. Right now there just isn't one and I can't see Fox getting excited about any of the schools that have been listed (sorry, ND and UConn are not joining the BE any time soon). I'm happy with 10 teams and like the double round robin schedule.
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Any school with a FBS program program should immediately be disregarded (UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, Temple, UMass). The schools already went down that path with schools like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville, and Notre Dame. They are not threatening the consistency, stability and strength of the reconfigured league with any football schools, period. Schools like Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, and St. Johns would have an even bigger issue with it - because they went through huge realignment phases three separate times (2003, 2005 and 2013).
UConn could, potentially, be made as an exception. They have history with the C7 schools, but they immediately jump ship once an invite from the B1G or ACC came. They wouldn't care about being in the Big East long term. That's not stability, that's convenience.
The football schools left are the ones the big football conferences did not want and that is not likely to change. Since they will not be playing football in the Big East the only thing you would need to worry about is them leaving. You control that with a buyout clause. The conference would have a huge upgrade if the Big East would just accept UConn & Cincy.
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Only reason you expand is if Notre Dame is willing to come to the Big East. That ain't happening, so there is no reason to expand.
The Big East is safe (relatively speaking) from the spinning carousel that is conference realignment. Just enjoy the overpaid bounty that is Fox television revenue. Enjoy being able to watch Marquette on FS1 trounce Grambling because you will be one of 77 people who will do so.
Seriously though, conference expansion is the last thing we should be thinking/worrying about.
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*I would love ND and UCONN to come back. Love it. But that seems highly unrealistic
*Xavier would throw a fit if Cincinnati were considered so I don't think that would happen either. Same for Nova/Temple
*Gonzaga strikes me as waaaaay too far as to be a logistical nightmare.
*So having ruled out ND, UCONN, Cincy, Temple, and Gonzaga, no other school strikes me as worth it. We would have to, what, split revenues with the 11th and 12th members? The abovementioned schools would possibly make it worthwhile, but I don't see Shaka-less VCU, Richmond, BU, or even SLU making up that 2/12 difference. This is nothing more than an initial hunch.
*That said, I would much rather keep the 10 members for two main reasons. First, of course, we keep more of the money. Second, we keep the round-robin schedule, which helps budding rivalries, which somewhat in turn helps sell tickets. This latter effect is somewhat diminished with 11th and 12th members, especially if those 11th and 12th members are watered-down programs
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Why are people advocating for expansion when Fox Sports isn't going to throw more money into the coffers?
I guess I'm assuming - perhaps too early - that Fox reneges and asks to renegotiate. In which case it will be "Whoever Fox wants".
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I guess I'm assuming - perhaps too early - that Fox reneges and asks to renegotiate. In which case it will be "Whoever Fox wants".
They have a contract to broadcast games for the next decade. The conference exists, the 10 schools are there, the league was #1 or #2 in the country last year, etc, etc. There is nothing for Fox to renege on. There is no legal out, nor is anyone talking of that on their side. That being said, they overpaid, but that's the name of the game still. Fox has to overpay for just about everything right now.
Last week they bought the NHRA rights from ESPN. Totally overpaid, but they need content. I explained this a few years ago when the whole thing came up. They were going to lose money for quite some time because ESPN can drive up the costs and let Fox bid higher to take properties that aren't worth the value. Colin Cowherd is the latest example.
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Agreeing with Chicos on this one. We have a good group of 10, so why expand if it's just going to mean more schools splitting the same pot of money? With that said, anyone but Dayton.
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I'd say no to expansion for the current TV contract. There's no point in bringing in more mouths to feed.
In 10 years there might be some more shake-up in the football conferences and some quality bball programs might get left out for good. Schools like Memphis and UConn might finally decide football isn't worth it and switch to our model. Who knows, schools like Kansas and Iowa State might even be options if the Big 12 falls apart.
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I'm with Chicos. Why start splitting the same money more ways? Similar to 03, the only way I consider expansion is in the completely unlikely event that ND wants back in or UConn wants to go FCS with football and come back. Both of those are worth it for the long term benefit, but since neither are going to happen, 10 it is.
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interesting timing, today's article on BIG1? expansion http://www.btpowerhouse.com/2015/7/21/8911733/big-ten-expansion-would-be-beneficial-down-the-road
The writer is all for them raiding the ACC but he doesn't mention the $50,000,000 exit fee at all.
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There's only ONE thing that will ultimately make the Big East a conference that grabs people attention: winning.
TV networks, expansion, TV markets, rivalries, all that stuff is ancillary to having a consistent set of teams consistently winning in March. That's it.
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ABD
ABD/SLU
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The Fox contract that we signed in 2013, the 12-year/10 school $500 million contract, stipulated that we could add two schools to get to 12 and the deal would be amended to $600 million - adding potentially $50 million per new school.
From a NY Times article when the deal broke:
Fox won them over with a 12-year deal worth about $500 million, according to reports. But the contract could spike to $600 million if the conference grows to a dozen teams, according to two people briefed on the contract but not authorized to speak publicly about its terms.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0)
If team(s) are added, we wouldn't be diluting the pot - we would just be adding to it.
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But my guess is that Fox didn't simply say "go to 12 and we will pay you more." I'm sure they have a say in it. And I can't really see any candidate to get all excited about. No harm in waiting to see how things pan out in the next few years.
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The Fox contract that we signed in 2013, the 12-year/10 school $500 million contract, stipulated that we could add two schools to get to 12 and the deal would be amended to $600 million - adding potentially $50 million per new school.
From a NY Times article when the deal broke:
Fox won them over with a 12-year deal worth about $500 million, according to reports. But the contract could spike to $600 million if the conference grows to a dozen teams, according to two people briefed on the contract but not authorized to speak publicly about its terms.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0)
If team(s) are added, we wouldn't be diluting the pot - we would just be adding to it.
So why would we want to expand? Assuming that is a locked in revenue number and Fox has no ability to negotiate it down, that is a net neutral for the current teams plus less tv availability. No incentive to expand
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There could, conceivably, be several reasons that the Presidents and/or Fox would like to expand.
1. Attendance. Attendance at the Big East tournament actually went down last season (15,300 in championship game in 2014 to 13,400 last year). Even though it was only the second season of the new league, the schools certainly don't want attendance to be trending downward at the world's greatest arena. Acquiring a school that travels really well and sells out its home games consistently (like a Dayton) will only get more fans to come and pay to see the games.
2. Increase the odds of getting tournament teams. We still don't know how many schools we will average getting into the tournament each year (6 BE teams in tournament in 2015, 4 teams in 2014). Perhaps 5 is a good estimate from year-to-year. However, going to 12, or 14, etc., bumps up the number of teams you are likely to put in (assuming they aren't bottom dwellers each year.
3. Increase market size. Currently, all the Big East schools are located in large metropolitan areas (New York, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Omaha, Newark, Providence). Adding a school like SLU gives you access to Saint Louis, Duquesne gives you Pittsburgh, Richmond/VCU would give you Richmond, etc. Getting other schools in other big cities only increases your viewership and following.
I'm not promoting any school(s) for expansion, but I do think the league and Fox should be open-minded about the prospect of expanding. We don't want to be left behind the power conferences in basketball.
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There are a lot of candidates, but there seems to be issues with almost all of them. I would rank the candidates:
1. UConn
2. Gonzaga
3. Memphis
4. VCU
5. Cincinnati
6. BYU
7. UMass
8. Wichita State
9. Temple
10. Dayton
11. Boston University
12. St. Louis
13. Richmond
I know people care about things like schools being private, being basketball only, and being geographically close. I don't. At all. There are really only 2 things that matter:
How many eyeballs do they bring?
How good are they at basketball?
As long as a team does those two things, everything else will fall into place.
St Louis, Richmond, and Boston U bring a lot of eyeballs (new media markets) but are really bad at basketball.
Temple and Dayton are decent at basketball but don't bring new media markets (X and NOVA).
Wichita State is good at basketball and brings a new media market but its a tiny one.
The top 7 are the ones you want to look at IMHO. The top 6 are very good at basketball and UMass is decent. All of them bring new large media markets (except Cincy but their fanbase and basketball chops make them worth it).
Don't know if you've heard, but Shaka left VCU.
1, 3, 12, and 13 are realistic IMO. Which is why expansion ain't coming to a league near you soon.
UConn and Memphis will have to give up dreams of football glory which is going to happen, but not anytime soon. It will take a little time for the cost of competing in the coming world of NCAA Division I football to become apparent. I guess when that happens UMass will be in that group , as well, just not as desirable for mens' basketball, yet, and probably then, too.
St. Louis and Richmond, you have work to do.
Wichita State? I don't see the eastern teams agreeing to go another inch west.
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I think another potential member IF they get their basketball act together is Denver. Another major market, private school, and already a member of the conference in lacrosse.
Of course, that's a big if...
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Thoughts on Davidson or Belmont?
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Before we expand, can we work on expelling DePaul first?
Realistically, this ain't gonna happen. I guess I'm just banging my head on the desk trying to find ways to convince them to stop riding everyone else' coattails for mens' basketball. Maybe a rumor of switching them out for St. Louis could do that. With the resources the Big East provides, I could see St. Louis taking it up a notch.
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Before we expand, can we work on expelling DePaul first?
Realistically, this ain't gonna happen. I guess I'm just banging my head on the desk trying to find ways to convince them to stop riding everyone else' coattails for mens' basketball. Maybe a rumor of switching them out for St. Louis could do that. With the resources the Big East provides, I could see St. Louis taking it up a notch.
Having a presence in Chicago is really important. And their new arena will be viewed as beneficial as well. remember every conference needs a team to come in last, if our dumpster can still claim to have as much history as DePaul I'm ok with that.
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I'm with Chicos. Why start splitting the same money more ways? Similar to 03, the only way I consider expansion is in the completely unlikely event that ND wants back in or UConn wants to go FCS with football and come back. Both of those are worth it for the long term benefit, but since neither are going to happen, 10 it is.
Agreed. Absent ND or UConn agreeing to the right deal, there is no reason to expand under the current contract unless Fox offers us more money to do so...and that isn't happening.
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I think another potential member IF they get their basketball act together is Denver. Another major market, private school, and already a member of the conference in lacrosse.
Of course, that's a big if...
Sultan, I have no information at all and it's purely speculation, but I could see when the BE was courting them for lacrosse this came up with "if we expand for other sports you would be first in line."
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Thoughts on Davidson or Belmont?
Davidson is extremely small by Big East standards (under 2,000 students) and doesn't share the same academics as the Big East schools. Belmont doesn't bring the basketball history (just went Division 1 in the mid-90's). Both, however, have had tremendous success in each of their respective conference(s) over the past decade and are interesting long-term candidates.
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Sultan, I have no information at all and it's purely speculation, but I could see when the BE was courting them for lacrosse this came up with "if we expand for other sports you would be first in line."
Denver was added for men's lacrosse and men's lacrosse alone. They are one of the top lacrosse programs in the country and the conference needed to get to six members to get an automatic bid to the tournament. They have no shot at becoming a full-member. They have only three NCAA tournament appearances in their program's history.
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I don't want to say "no shot," because who would have thought Butler would be where they are now? But they have to take significant steps and I'm not sure they can.
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Thoughts on Davidson or Belmont?
Davidson some nice recent success, and they've moved up in competition to the Atlantic 10, so hopefully that will develop them more.
Then again they have an arena that holds around 5,200 in a town of under 11,000 and an undergraduate population of 1,850. And it is located in the same state as North Carolina, North Carolina State, Duke, Wake Forest, and North Carolina-Charlotte. Big time basketball may be a bit daunting under the circumstances, and then how much of a viewership increase can you reasonably expect?
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I don't want to say "no shot," because who would have thought Butler would be where they are now? But they have to take significant steps and I'm not sure they can.
Denver is a significant step westwards, but it ain't Gonzaga. It would add a very nice market with much less competition for eyeballs then most new markets would have. More post graduate students then undergrads indicates great academics. It's a private school.
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I know Dayton rubs some folks here the wrong way, but their arena seats 13,500 people, and they consistently get 12k/13k at home games. That is really huge. They have also been to 16 NCAA tournaments and travel extremely well. Archie Miller has really elevated their level of play over the past few seasons.
Saint Louis seats 10,600 people, but really fell off last year. They were selling the place out when they were good a few years ago. I have a feeling that if Rick was still alive then SLU would be in the conference right now.
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I know Dayton rubs some folks here the wrong way, but their arena seats 13,500 people, and they consistently get 12k/13k at home games. That is really huge. They have also been to 16 NCAA tournaments and travel extremely well. Archie Miller has really elevated their level of play over the past few seasons.
But who wants to travel there once a year? I'd rather go to Oshkosh.
Give me Boston. Not every winter will be like last.
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Sorry KEEFE, but while I respect Gonzaga and you, this is a BAD IDEA because:
1. league expansion is about more than Mens BB; it is about all team sports and the travel costs and time in transit {for all these BE schools and Gonzaga} is prohibitive; and
2. Gonzaga is in Wash.State, which the last time I looked, is a Pacific Coast state which is not a good BE "brand fit." There is enough press negativity toward our league now due to NBE's lack of NCAA success and this would just fuel the pundits making "fun" of the NBE.
A man driving a Plymouth can dream about owning a Porsche...
You might end up buying another Plymouth but you always look at the Porsche...
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Thoughts on Davidson or Belmont?
Maybe I'm an old former Nashvillian, but I remember Belmont as a backwater school living in the shadow of Vanderbilt. Their basketball team for years was an after-thought when compared to such regional powers as Vandy, Memphis, Tennessee and Western Kentucky. They're in a tough market where they'll compete night after night with Vanderbilt and the Nashville Predators. Their recent success is OK, but their tradition doesn't hold a candle to us, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's or even DePaul!
How many NBA players came from Belmont? Not many!
If we want to move the Big East toward the A-10 or, God forbid, the Ohio Valley Conference, bring on Belmont! Even Dayton is a better choice than Belmont if we have to expand.
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The Fox contract that we signed in 2013, the 12-year/10 school $500 million contract, stipulated that we could add two schools to get to 12 and the deal would be amended to $600 million - adding potentially $50 million per new school.
From a NY Times article when the deal broke:
Fox won them over with a 12-year deal worth about $500 million, according to reports. But the contract could spike to $600 million if the conference grows to a dozen teams, according to two people briefed on the contract but not authorized to speak publicly about its terms.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0)
If team(s) are added, we wouldn't be diluting the pot - we would just be adding to it.
For this to actually happen you would have to find two schools that the BE would consider worthy AND Fox has to believe is worth the extra $100 million.
Realistically? I see none. I see fantasies (ND, Uconn, etc?) but nothing realistic.
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For this to actually happen you would have to find two schools that the BE would consider worthy AND Fox has to believe is worth the extra $100 million.
Realistically? I see none. I see fantasies (ND, Uconn, etc?) but nothing realistic.
Considering Fox has been overspending on other properties for FS1, I don't think it is a huge stretch for them to give the ok to two schools that would only add more content during the winter for the Big East. Two more teams gives them an extra game each night of Big East play, and I think that would be more valuable than a rerun of UFC or soccer.
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The reason I would not want to expand is you lose the round robin schedule.
The two reasons I would like to expand are:
Raising the conference strength, which means they would have to be schools that have consistently shown that their addition would raise the conferences strength.
The Big East tournament would work better with 12 teams. Right now the 5th & 6th teams are getting a bye, which hurts their chances of getting an NCAA bid. For the league to consistently expect more than four bids, I think the 5th & 6th teams need to play a first round game.
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But who wants to travel there once a year? I'd rather go to Oshkosh.
I think Dave Attell said it best..
"I was in Dayton, Ohio. You ever been there? Yeah? You know what’s a fun thing to do there? Pack up and get the f*ck outta there.""
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Considering Fox has been overspending on other properties for FS1, I don't think it is a huge stretch for them to give the ok to two schools that would only add more content during the winter for the Big East. Two more teams gives them an extra game each night of Big East play, and I think that would be more valuable than a rerun of UFC or soccer.
My guess that they are losing money on the BE as it stands right now. I doubt they will add to their losses.
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I agree with others that unless it is an elite program, you don't expand...right now. We will need to think about expansion before our TV deal is up. We need to prove that we can drive eyeballs to FS1 and the only thing that will do that is adding more marquis teams. There will be another round of realignment in the next ten years. I have no idea what it will bring. But I do believe that we will need to add 2 more marquis teams eventually to stay relevant. I think UConn and Memphis would be the best bets.
But we do have a few years to see how the landscape changes.
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The Fox contract that we signed in 2013, the 12-year/10 school $500 million contract, stipulated that we could add two schools to get to 12 and the deal would be amended to $600 million - adding potentially $50 million per new school.
From a NY Times article when the deal broke:
Fox won them over with a 12-year deal worth about $500 million, according to reports. But the contract could spike to $600 million if the conference grows to a dozen teams, according to two people briefed on the contract but not authorized to speak publicly about its terms.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/sports/ncaabasketball/fox-sports-and-new-big-east-are-teaming-up.html?_r=0)
If team(s) are added, we wouldn't be diluting the pot - we would just be adding to it.
The per team revenue doesn't change, still $50M. That's what ultimately matters. No incentive for the current schools to do it, very little for Fox to do it, if any at all.
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The per team revenue doesn't change, still $50M. That's what ultimately matters. No incentive for the current schools to do it, very little for Fox to do it, if any at all.
There is an incentive for the schools to expand IF it makes the BE stronger.
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Given the available candidates, got to believe for Fox it's an even more resounding "no", unless anyone cares to make the case that it's worth another $75M (assuming 2016 expansion) to air DePaul vs. SLU and Dayton vs. Seton Hall rather than just running with darts on FS2 for nine years. Which is a risk long-term for the conference if they were to defy Fox's wishes. If a UConn was a viable option and they had fewer years to drop the cash, Fox might give it some thought. We're only two years in, but the length of the deal might have been the biggest coup in the bargain for the conference to have some time to figure things out.
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The per team revenue doesn't change, still $50M. That's what ultimately matters. No incentive for the current schools to do it, very little for Fox to do it, if any at all.
The double round robin format is also attractive to Fox, gives them plenty of material to promote and analyze pre and post game. To me the key is building our conference identity through rivalries. Right now we are lucky in that all 10 teams in the conference are on an upward trend (broadly defined for sure) , I think that will work in everyone's favor. We are a league where conference games are hard fought and not easily won. I would like to see the Big East put up several more years like last year. Marquette can really help the league by regaining its previous form.
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Considering Fox has been overspending on other properties for FS1, I don't think it is a huge stretch for them to give the ok to two schools that would only add more content during the winter for the Big East. Two more teams gives them an extra game each night of Big East play, and I think that would be more valuable than a rerun of UFC or soccer.
You do realize the Women's World Cup final drew over 26 million viewers on big Fox.
The 70+ games telecast on FS1 and FS2 drew a combined audience of a little over 8.1 million.
Actually the semi-final game featuring US v. Germany drew 8.4 million.
Seton Hall vs. Marquette on Jan. 28th attracted under 23,000 viewers. DePaul vs. Marquette on Mar. 7th was watched by 24,000.
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Short of Fox insisting on schools being added, there is absolutely no reason for any of the current 10 schools wanting to expand.
And what incentive does Fox have to insist upon expansion? None.
As Lou Piniella used to say, it's a "mute" point!
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There is an incentive for the schools to expand IF it makes the BE stronger.
Adding Dayton, SLU, BU, VCU, et al will not make the BE stronger
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I think Dave Attell said it best..
"I was in Dayton, Ohio. You ever been there? Yeah? You know what’s a fun thing to do there? Pack up and get the f*ck outta there.""
Dave Attell is great....as is Doug Stanhope.
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There is an incentive for the schools to expand IF it makes the BE stronger.
I agree with your statement, but I think you and I also know there aren't any schools out there that will make the BE stronger that are truly viable. Thus, no reason to do it.
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There are a lot of candidates, but there seems to be issues with almost all of them. I would rank the candidates:
1. UConn
2. Gonzaga
3. Memphis
4. VCU
5. Cincinnati
6. BYU
7. UMass
8. Wichita State
9. Temple
10.
11. Boston University
12. St. Louis
13. Richmond