They beg and cajole for the series, then bitch because we beat the stuffing out of them.
We are hands down on a superior level to them in basketball, always have been. (witness the series record)
This is the equivilent of UCLA play Cal State Northridge. There is no upside for MU. The win is expected, and if we win by blowing them out then it is classless.
The best thing to do is sweep this series then shut it down for good. Nobody outside Milwaukee really cares anyway.
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 01, 2007, 05:35:44 PM
They beg and cajole for the series, then bitch because we beat the stuffing out of them.
We are hands down on a superior level to them in basketball, always have been. (witness the series record)
This is the equivilent of UCLA play Cal State Northridge. There is no upside for MU. The win is expected, and if we win by blowing them out then it is classless.
The best thing to do is sweep this series then shut it down for good. Nobody outside Milwaukee really cares anyway.
The worst part is we called off the dogs and were STILL able to run up the score.
James, Matthews and McNeal scored 41 of MU's first 61 points. And then only six more the rest of the game.
Only SJS would consider picking up UWM full court with close to a 40 point lead "calling off the dogs." Do you really believe what you write?
They should have ran it up more.
I lean both ways. On the one hand, I would think that giving Trend, Patrick, Christopherson .. and Mo .. as much PT as possible (barring Scott's tender knee) is desirable. Hell, even Tommy should get some PT as a reward for all his hard work.
On the other hand, UWM wanted to play MU. So MU played them. For 40 minutes. All 40.
AND .. UWM fans should be more angry with their own team, who quit on them with 10-12 minutes of the game left.
They need to get over it
to avoid "running up the score" we would have had to start standing around just past halfcourt dribbling the ball for 30 seconds with about 15 minutes left in the game.. please.. I get more insulted when I know I am losing (and can handle that) but then my opponent basically stops playing. Personally, I try to use the remainder of games (of any type) that I have hopelessly lost as practice to get better. Their coach should have been (and may very well have been) calling stuff for them to try out and play around with at the end of this game.
was just a bad idea, period.
If they didn't want to get blown out, they should have just played better. That simple.
Quote from: mcnaulty21 on December 02, 2007, 01:00:57 AM
If they didn't want to get blown out, they should have just played better. That simple.
Welcome to the bigs UWM...why are we even discussing this? Only a Catholic, guilt ridden school would care what UWM fans think. UWM is minor leagues right now in b-ball...and besides, they kicked our behinds in soccer for decades. Case closed. Enjoy the hose.
On to Madison to test our mettle. A win in Madtown puts us into the Top 10.
Quote from: HarveysWallbangers on December 01, 2007, 07:04:29 PM
Only SJS would consider picking up UWM full court with close to a 40 point lead "calling off the dogs." Do you really believe what you write?
Just another self-loathing MU fan. "Oh, what a terrible team we have--we stopped making our three best players the center of the offense, but we should have backed off even more."
And only HarvesWallbangers would think that taking James Matthews and McNeal almost completely out of the offense--especially after they were most of it up until that point--means there was no change in approach.
MU could not have played their reserves. Tommy wanted to send a message. He wanted to embarrass our program. How do you accomplish that with your reserves?
The above is a UWM fan's comment. Fran also made a statement that Crean should have cleared his bench with 4 minutes to go like Jeter did.
Interesting.
I thought we would take a trip down memory lane. December 15th, 2004 to be exact. UW@Madison 66, UWM 37.
In that game, here's what the starters played for Bo Ryan's club
Tucker 29 min
Morley 27
Wilkinson 32
Chambliss 33
Hanson 25
Starters played 146 minutes
Now let's look at MU starters from Friday night
Burke 18 mins
Hayward 29
James 29
McNeal 33
Matthews 22
Starters played 131 minutes
Hmm...how interesting.
Let's take it a step further, shall we.
Bo on that magical late Fall day also played two more players in double figures. Taylor with 12 minutes and Butch with 18 minutes.
Crean, actually played THREE more players in double figure minutes (i.e.....giving MORE players double player minutes...using MORE DEPTH). Barro with 10, Cubillan with 26 and Acker with 13. In addition Hazel got 9 (Bo had his next guy at 8 minutes).
So Fran's right, "you are what you are". I guess Bo Ryan was just running up that score keeping those starters in there for those incredible amounts of playing time.....more so than Crean did on Friday night. Very strange how Bo is treated on this vs Crean...ah yes, very strange indeed.
where'd you find that quote?
Bad example Chico's. That UW-UWM was actually not a huge blow out until late in the game. UW was only up 10 with 10 minutes left in the game but closed with a 25-6 run. That's why the starters were in that long. MU on the other hand was up 24 at the ten minute mark.
I would be more interested in what UW was up with about 5 minutes to go. That is what people are complaining about. No one can seriously expect a team to "call off the dogs" with 10 minutes left with even a 24 point lead?
What was the score of the UW-UWM with 5 minutes to go and what was MU? I think MU was up about 40 points with 5 minutes to go and won by 35. How 'bout the UW game?
5 minutes to go UW was up 53-37, 16 points. UWM scored with just under 6 minutes left and then didn't score a single point the remainder of the game.
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 02, 2007, 12:52:36 PM
Just another self-loathing MU fan.
Hilarious! Let's add amateur psychologist to Marquette84's long-list of credentials!
Does Marquette have a lot of "self-loathing" fans as your use of "another" suggests? Can I assume anybody who questions anything having to do with the university or the basketball team is, in your view, "self-loathing?"
Please, continue to bewitch us with your brilliance!
I don't think mins. are the reason people think MU ran up the score (the starters didn't play a ton), I think it was the approach and aggressive nature of the offense and defense. If people are claiming it's about minutes, just point them to the box score... they don't have a leg to stand on. I mean, are the starters supposed to play only 20 min?
I can see why people might be a little upset by the play in the final 10min, but to be honest MU's overall style is "pedal to the metal" all of the time. They aren't a half-court, use the shot clock type of team.
I don't think you can ask the players to suddenly change the style of play that they have been taught just because they are ahead. That would be counter-productive and MU needed to get a lot of work in because they hadn't played in 10 days and needed to get ready for Madison.
I'm not saying they need to fire up 3's and rub it in (which I don't think they did), but I like the "stomp on them" attitude because I think that is what it is going to take in the Big East to be successful.
I doubt that anybody (UWM or UW fan) that really knows a lick about hoops is really offended by the score. They are probably just using this as a way to take shots at MU.
I'm glad MU played UWM, but I also knew before the game (and still realize) that this game is PR nightmare because even when MU "wins", they don't really "win".
First of all, Marquette did run up the score. They were jacking up 3's when the game was already in the bag. However, this is a rare instance where I support running up the score. UWM and their coaches, administration and fans made an issue of Marquette not scheduling them for 9 years. In the course of that process they basically said that we were scared of UWM and were scared we couldn't compete. Well, Friday night they got their answer. UWM got dominated by a vastly better team from a better program in a better conference and representing a university that is better.
Screw 'em. They picked a fight and got their asses handed to them. Let them bitch all they want.
This whole discussion is beyond me,
We complain that we can't put away inferior teams but listen/acknowledge other team's gripes when we drop the hammer. Please, minutes aside, how do you tell players to go in and "play at 50%". MU hadn't played in over a week so if I were Crean I most definitely would have used it as an open scrimmage opportunity to get my guys back into game-shape with real game experience. Imagine if we had taken everyone out early in the 2nd half? I'd be very worried about the rust my starters would be carrying if they've only played 1 1/2 games in over 2 weeks. This is D-1 basketball not some YMCA junior league.
For the record, what did OKstate's fans say when we beat them by 30? I don't recall reading anything around here or on the "other" board about their fans thinking we ran the score up.
Were we pressing Oklahoma State late in the game?
Quote from: bma725 on December 02, 2007, 08:40:57 PM
Bad example Chico's. That UW-UWM was actually not a huge blow out until late in the game. UW was only up 10 with 10 minutes left in the game but closed with a 25-6 run. That's why the starters were in that long. MU on the other hand was up 24 at the ten minute mark.
For the 20 minutes of the second half, UWM was within 10 for a total of 32 seconds. I understand where you are coming from but my overall remarks are simple....UWM, the media, their fans wanted to dictate who we play and now they want to dictate how we play.
They sure feel they have the authority to determine the fate of another basketball program in the city which I find rather interesting.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2007, 09:51:29 AM
Were we pressing Oklahoma State late in the game?
PRN, if Crean cured cancer and ended world poverty would you be ok with it? ;D
muarmy, 100% correct.
Also, I love the fact that our guys played hard and were doing the little things from start to finish. That is the sign of a good team .... one that buys into what the coaching staff is preaching.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2007, 09:51:29 AM
Were we pressing Oklahoma State late in the game?
I'm not sure they needed to. They punched OK State pretty hard early and it was clear that team was rattled. When announcers/analysts who watch hundreds of games a year mention that it's the first time in a long time they've seen a team play that intimidating it's nice to hear.
I'm guessing this will be a focal point all season. In the past, Crean's teams haven't exactly always had that killer instinct and there have been many games in which they've won by 18 but probably should've won by 30. UWM just happened to be the next in line. MU was much more methodical in this game and therefore I think you saw things remain the same throughout because of it.
I can't be bothered either way. There was no way this game would put MU in a positive light. Even now, after a man-handling, we have MU fans who are upset with our team and coach. Goes to show that the guerilla tactics started by Pearl and continued by Haidet have accomplished something in terms of perception.
I'm not sure what you're supposed to do when the other team completely stops playing defense. How many uncontested layups did we have in the last 10 minutes? This isn't CYO hoops, it's D1 basketball. I also remember that one of the main criticisms people have had of Tom Crean is that when we're leading a game late, he has a tendency to instruct the team to dribble out the clock and play for long possessions. A couple of times, like against Louisville at the BC in 2005, we ended up losing the game. Now, I don't think there was anyway for
UWM to get back into this game with under 5 minutes to go, but why risk it? And for those of you who slammed Crean in the past for taking the air out of the ball...well, who are you crapping? Don't crap me.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 03, 2007, 09:57:08 AM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2007, 09:51:29 AM
Were we pressing Oklahoma State late in the game?
PRN, if Crean cured cancer and ended world poverty would you be ok with it? ;D
That would be unbelievable, but I'm not sure it would increase his likability.
Let's look at this game in the bigger scheme of things. MU's last game was a loss to Duke, their next game is against a ranked rival. The team is nationally ranked and has high expectations for winning conference titles and playing late in March.
Crean's biggest objective in the game should have been to get his team to play the best that they could. He should have cared less about how well his oponent was (or was not) playing.
It should have been all about getting his team to play better each and every game. I would say that was accomplished Friday night.
"I can't be bothered either way. There was no way this game would put MU in a positive light. "
Amen!! There was nothing to gain by playing this uw hyphen m team!!! I said it from the beginning. MU is 35-0 against them. The only thing this game has done is to shut up the kiddies for another year. But they will be back again and again and again. *yawn*
This game was about as boring as I can remember. Felt like an exhibition game, except louder.
>>Goes to show that the guerilla tactics started by Pearl and continued by Haidet have accomplished something in terms of perception.<<
Only because the delta-minus morons at the JS bought into it.
There never was a plus in it for Marquette. Coaches are wise to Pearl; Texas sure as hell was.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2007, 09:51:29 AM
Were we pressing Oklahoma State late in the game?
I don't recall us pressing much if any during the OkState game. Probably meaning it wasn't in the game plan. However, UWM has very weak guards and I'm sure ball pressure on the perimeter was in the gameplan. (Meaning the entire game not just for 1/2 the game...needed to get used to it as well as what kind of rotations we are good with when we play UW Madison seeing as how they have weak guard play also.) Funny, you try to utilize every moment of a game of a practice to help improve your team. :-\ How come people can't understand this? Not only should players play 100% at all times, coaches need to continue to see how their team plays in different situations, combinations, tempos....I think our guards are very prepared for Saturday's game and gauging our inside game vs Wisconsin's front court we'll need to offset their strength as best we can.
QuoteHowever, UWM has very weak guards and I'm sure ball pressure on the perimeter was in the gameplan. (Meaning the entire game not just for 1/2 the game...needed to get used to it as well as what kind of rotations we are good with when we play UW Madison seeing as how they have weak guard play also.) Funny, you try to utilize every moment of a game of a practice to help improve your team.
Could not have said it better.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2007, 10:30:07 AM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 03, 2007, 09:57:08 AM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2007, 09:51:29 AM
Were we pressing Oklahoma State late in the game?
PRN, if Crean cured cancer and ended world poverty would you be ok with it? ;D
That would be unbelievable, but I'm not sure it would increase his likability.
You don't have to like the guy to respect the work he has done, or to be objective about his abilities.
I'm not sure if I think Crean is a great guy (I don't know him personally).
I do believe that he, and his teams, represent MU well by running a successful and entertaining program that all students and alumni can take pride in.
It's really that simple. Trust me.
Just sit back and enjoy. Whether its eagles or warriors, Al, Hank or Tom, it's just fun to be a fan and watch your team compete at the highest levels.
Enjoy it, guys.
>> Re: "This series is good for the city"
« Reply #35 on Dec 1, 2007, 12:37am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need to vent:
I am totally embarrassed and left the game in complete humiliation with 7 minutes left. UW-M (hyphen use intentional) was totally outclassed in every aspect. I now realize that UW-M will forever be a joke with a random good year thrown in for the evil teasing purposes of Satan for the rest of my natural life.
The MU band was bigger than the average UW-M student section, the presentation of the game was top flight and without any glitches, the students were organized and involved (read: actually watching the game), and the fans and alums were numerous, proud, and involved. In every single way UW-M is so far from this level that Waukesha North High School is actually closer to MU in each respect.
I am dejected and have lost almost all faith and desire. I may not renew my season tickets next year, nor will I donate, unless there are dramatic improvements in our AD and University Administration causing changes allowing the athletics program rise to the level of a real 30,000 student urban State University, not a large community college.
UW-M was a nice place to get a degree, but I now am coming to realize that I am one of about 16 people in the universe that want, and is willing, to work to make UW-M more than Super-MATC.
I should have gone to Madison, Marquette, Carroll College or Cardinal Stritch if I wanted to have an alma matter that took sports more seriously, with students with school pride, and to have hope for future success.
I am now more like all the other disinterested alums that went to UW-M, got my degree, and moved on, never to look back again.
I will never seek to put UW-M on a par with Marquette from this day forward.
I feel like a loved one was just brutally murdered in front of me and I was powerless to do anything about it.
I feel stupid. I feel used. I feel violated.
I will now light myself on fire.
I reserve the right to retract or modify any part of this post, as I am emotionally not well at this time.
Or am I just being "a pain in the ass" again?
[/quote]
__________________-
I was hoping that Crean would run up the score, but wow, did MU take the wind out of UWM's sails or what. Just thought this was an amusing post by an UWM fan.
Quote from: bma725 on December 02, 2007, 09:30:49 PM
5 minutes to go UW was up 53-37, 16 points. UWM scored with just under 6 minutes left and then didn't score a single point the remainder of the game.
I looked at the play by play (see below). Marquette was up by 35 at the 5:10 mark (91-56). They won by 35 (100-65). So we obviously didn't run up the score the last 5 minutes. I guess they had a problem with the 10-5 minute mark? Quite honestly... too bad. If we had poured it on the last five minutes they may have something to gripe about....
http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/gamecenter/playbyplay/NCAAB_20071130_WISMIL@MARQET
Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 03, 2007, 04:20:22 PM
Quote from: bma725 on December 02, 2007, 09:30:49 PM
5 minutes to go UW was up 53-37, 16 points. UWM scored with just under 6 minutes left and then didn't score a single point the remainder of the game.
I looked at the play by play (see below). Marquette was up by 35 at the 5:10 mark (91-56). They won by 35 (100-65). So we obviously didn't run up the score the last 5 minutes. I guess they had a problem with the 10-5 minute mark? Quite honestly... too bad. If we had poured it on the last five minutes they may have something to gripe about....
http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/gamecenter/playbyplay/NCAAB_20071130_WISMIL@MARQET
You're right. Looking at that link it's apparent that we could have scored more. I guess we got distracted and decided to just jack up three pointers in the last five minutes.
Will somebody please explain why this matters with the real UW only 5 days away. Marquette punked UWM. End of story. After all that has been said and done by the Milwaukee media about this game, who, other than PRN, can possibly blame TC if he ran it up? Now, let it go and focus on something that matters. Saturday's game, maybe? Geez.
Quote from: tower912 on December 03, 2007, 05:23:11 PM
Will somebody please explain why this matters with the real UW only 5 days away. Marquette punked UWM. End of story. After all that has been said and done by the Milwaukee media about this game, who, other than PRN, can possibly blame TC if he ran it up? Now, let it go and focus on something that matters. Saturday's game, maybe? Geez.
HarveysWallbangers seems to spend alot of time here bitching about MU & Crean too. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I'm insulted that you didn't think of me.
Quote from: tower912 on December 03, 2007, 05:23:11 PM
Will somebody please explain why this matters with the real UW only 5 days away. Marquette punked UWM. End of story. After all that has been said and done by the Milwaukee media about this game, who, other than PRN, can possibly blame TC if he ran it up? Now, let it go and focus on something that matters. Saturday's game, maybe? Geez.
Amen.
Who would have thought MU fans would out-whine UWM fans (all 19 of them) on this topic?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 03, 2007, 08:07:50 PM
I'm insulted that you didn't think of me.
you've mellowed out too much, cat. I think you actually sort of like the guy. :o
Gents--TC lacks the killer instinct. We could have been rated Top 5 ahead of Duke or Pittsburgh if we had a tougher schedule like these guys. This is how to do it:
Duke 143-Shaw 55
Duke 105-Barton 44
Duke 121-NC Central Central 56
Pitt 103-Houston Baptist 62
Pitt 88-NC A&P 61
Duke 82-UW Rat Tails 58
Less garbage time treys next game and more pressing. Scorched earth. No letting up like against the bunnies in order to maintain our image.
Does anyone else like me want Marquette to run up the score against UWM the next 3 years as well?
Since we beat them by 35 to go 35-0, how about beating them by 36 next year, 37 in '09 etcetera?
Great idea!
I'd like to start our reserves, and still beat them by 35.
MU is a very deep team, so there is some truth to the above post. Frankly, complaining about the final score or in some cases referees is for losers. Hearing UWM whining about the final score is no differenet about us whining on Sunday about the refs at the UW game.
Quote from: tower912 on December 04, 2007, 09:28:10 AM
Since we beat them by 35 to go 35-0, how about beating them by 36 next year, 37 in '09 etcetera?
This fact was not lost on me. I was hoping for either us doubling their score or winning by 35.
I was in no way disappointed