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MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on June 03, 2015, 01:21:47 PM

Title: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 03, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/horseracing/2015/06/03/american-pharoah-post-position-belmont-stakes-bob-baffert-victor-espinoza/28410805/

Would be nice. It's been so long. I am going to say yes!
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Pakuni on June 03, 2015, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 03, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/horseracing/2015/06/03/american-pharoah-post-position-belmont-stakes-bob-baffert-victor-espinoza/28410805/

Would be nice. It's been so long. I am going to say yes!

Yes.
Unfortunately, it had to be Baffert.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Benny B on June 03, 2015, 02:03:23 PM
I'm saying no.  Looking at who drew 1-4, I think Pharaoh got a bad draw at 5; personally, I see him either getting jammed or burning a lot of energy too early.  Keen Ice is the dark horse I'm watching; very surprised to see the morning line at 20-1 today.

If not for the damn name connection, I would be wheeling Frosted - Keen Ice with the field hoping for a nice trifecta payout.  But any wager with those two on the ticket is going to get more action than it deserves, so I'm not seeing much value this year.

Frosted - Keen Ice - Tale of Verve - American Pharoah
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 03, 2015, 02:31:18 PM
I think yes.  He was more impressive in the Preakness than the Derby so I think he has the legs for the longer Belmont race.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: HouWarrior on June 04, 2015, 12:15:05 AM
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 03, 2015, 02:31:18 PM
I think yes.  He was more impressive in the Preakness than the Derby so I think he has the legs for the longer Belmont race.
The Preakness is shorter than the Derby, so he actually struggled in the longer of the two races (Derby). We dont know if he can go long. These days, breeding/training is more speed, and not distance. The Belmont is the the longest of the 3, and catches these Triple crown horses fairly tired, 2 weeks after 2 stakes races in 3 weeks (total 5 weeks). The Belmont has been such a gut tiring lengthy challenge, historically....so lots(23) win 2, but not the third one.
All that said,  this one has at least one of the best on paper chances, so I'd like to chime in with yes, but my gut actually tells me no.  Materiality to win ( by a length and a half) , Pharoah to place, Frosted/Keen Ice to show.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 04, 2015, 12:40:38 PM
Anyone actually handicapping this race knows AP is a different caliber horse than Keen Ice, Tale of Verve and Materiality. Frosted is the only runner you can look at that'll maybe make you twitch your eyebrow at beating AP.

AP will win, place your $2 win bet and frame it.


In response the the Preakness/Derby impressiveness was the weather. He ran a a good speed in that downpour, there's something to be said about that.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: LloydsLegs on June 04, 2015, 01:02:36 PM
Edzo said to box 5-6 last night, so I'm going with Frosted chasing AP down in the end.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 04, 2015, 04:23:10 PM
Except for Spectacular Bid, I think AP has the most talent of those who have challenged and fallen short over the years. Key is if he can go 11/2. His grandfather, Empire Maker did, I was there and I had him. beat Funny Cide in the slop.

But this is a really nice field, with the top jockeys and some great trainers. If AP wins he will really have to earn it. Should be some race.    
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: GGGG on June 05, 2015, 03:02:21 PM
I no longer want him to win.

https://notredame.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1772072
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Benny B on June 05, 2015, 03:53:21 PM
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2015, 03:02:21 PM
I no longer want him to win.

https://notredame.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1772072

WTF.  Their rivals site is called "Blue & Gold Illustrated"?!?  Like I needed another reason to despise....
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 05, 2015, 05:16:45 PM
Heard Baffert say today that Pharoh is as good a horse as he has ever trained, as good if not better than Point Given. Point Given was a wonderful horse who won the Belmont by 11 lengths. Plus everyone has said AP is training well and looks great.

That being said, this is a pretty impressive field and it looks like a good crop of 3 year olds. Frosted and Materiality are nice rested horses. Tale of the Verve isn't bad. If AP wins he will have to earn it.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 06, 2015, 06:11:50 PM
And we do!!!
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: chapman on June 06, 2015, 06:12:47 PM
Not even challenged.  The Athlete of the Year nominees seem to already be down to Curry, Djokovic, and a horse.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 06, 2015, 06:20:59 PM
Quote from: chapman on June 06, 2015, 06:12:47 PM
Not even challenged.  The Athlete of the Year nominees seem to already be down to Curry, Djokovic, and a horse.

Actually.... and A HORSE!!!!!
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2015, 06:51:55 PM
Trust fund babies gettin rich. Gotta love it
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 06, 2015, 06:58:57 PM
For all ya old farts, we be waitin' for Wojo to name HE the American Pharoah of college basketball, ai na?
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 06, 2015, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 06, 2015, 06:51:55 PM
Trust fund babies gettin rich. Gotta love it

If you can breed and race a Triple Crown winner, you deserve it.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 06, 2015, 07:50:10 PM
I thought Bob Costas had a good piece on how wrong California Chrome's owner was last year.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 07, 2015, 11:01:13 AM
Possibly should listen to old PTM more.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 07, 2015, 11:18:23 AM
Good for Victor.  He is at a number of Ducks games the last few years and now he rides Pharoah to the triple.  Came close last year with Chrome. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEIUM_UUIAEyIfE.jpg:large)
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: PTM on June 07, 2015, 11:01:13 AM
Possibly should listen to old PTM more.

Way to hand out those 3-5 shots  :) But thanks for the steam.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 07, 2015, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 01:10:54 PM
Way to hand out those 3-5 shots  :) But thanks for the steam.

I had Frosted as well!
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 07, 2015, 02:18:38 PM
Here is a list of the greatest race horses in history. I am sure some are missing and some will disagree with the rank but an interesting list none the less.
http://www.thetoptens.com/best-race-horses/
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 02:28:40 PM
Quote from: PTM on June 07, 2015, 01:16:21 PM
I had Frosted as well!

Congrats on the cold exacta. $13.50. You won enough to buy a big Mac and fries!
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 07, 2015, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 02:28:40 PM
Congrats on the cold exacta. $13.50. You won enough to buy a big Mac and fries!

I didn't actually bet the race, just called it correctly.

Had a nice day of betting out of Arlington though, hit four tris that all paid over $150.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 04:19:56 PM
Quote from: PTM on June 07, 2015, 04:10:56 PM
I didn't actually bet the race, just called it correctly.

Had a nice day of betting out of Arlington though, hit four tris that all paid over $150.

Good going. Nothing better than a good day at the track. I passed going to Belmont because I didn't want to deal with the LIRR. Now I wish I had gone.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 07, 2015, 04:20:36 PM
Quote from: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 04:19:56 PM
Good going. Nothing better than a good day at the track. I passed going to Belmont because I didn't want to deal with the LIRR. Now I wish I had gone.

Really? Damn, so worth it.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: PTM on June 07, 2015, 04:20:36 PM
Really? Damn, so worth it.

i saw the Slew and Affirmed do it live and in person. Affirmed and Alydar is still the greatest sporting event I have ever witnessed and I was there to see Reggie's "triple".  But I had to wait 4 hours for a train after the Smarty Jones affair and I couldn't handle that again. Seeing a third triple would have been nice though. 
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 07, 2015, 07:10:56 PM
Quote from: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 05:25:36 PM
i saw the Slew and Affirmed do it live and in person. Affirmed and Alydar is still the greatest sporting event I have ever witnessed and I was there to see Reggie's "triple".  But I had to wait 4 hours for a train after the Smarty Jones affair and I couldn't handle that again. Seeing a third triple would have been nice though. 

Even more damns, first triple crown I've been alive for.

Watched at a birthday party unfortunately, lots of dumb comments about how he wouldn't stay up and how the horses behind him are running better because they're heads are bobbing.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 07, 2015, 08:20:29 PM
ftp://
Quote from: PTM on June 07, 2015, 07:10:56 PM
Even more damns, first triple crown I've been alive for.

Watched at a birthday party unfortunately, lots of dumb comments about how he wouldn't stay up and how the horses behind him are running better because they're heads are bobbing.

I love the way he relaxes on the lead, waits for the others to catch up, and then shifts into a another gear. He just glides. Poetry in motion.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Chicago_inferiority_complexes on June 07, 2015, 09:54:35 PM
Turns out our insane (is there any other word) president thinks that he is responsible for the Triple Crown win:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/06/you-know-obama-is-hard-up-for-accomplishments-when.php

"Another accomplishment -- Obama first President to have a Triple Crown winner since Carter"
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: jesmu84 on June 07, 2015, 10:30:54 PM
Quote from: Chicago_inferiority_complexes on June 07, 2015, 09:54:35 PM
Turns out our insane (is there any other word) president thinks that he is responsible for the Triple Crown win:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/06/you-know-obama-is-hard-up-for-accomplishments-when.php

"Another accomplishment -- Obama first President to have a Triple Crown winner since Carter"

Keep that crap on the politics board
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on June 07, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
What !!? Are you mad that he beat Hillary to the claim?
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Benny B on June 08, 2015, 10:28:44 AM
Quote from: elephantraker on June 07, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
What !!? Are you mad that he beat Hillary to the claim?

If anyone is responsible, it's Hillary, not Obama.  Hillary lives in New York, and [insert horse joke about Hillary here].
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Benny B on June 08, 2015, 11:45:44 AM
BTW - For those of you who haven't seen it, you need to watch Secretariat's run at the Belmont, and if you have seen it, re-watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfCMtaNiMDM

Congratulations to AP on being the first in a generation to win the Triple Crown, but how Secretariat did it in 1973 was nothing short of amazing.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: GGGG on June 08, 2015, 03:36:38 PM
Secretariat would have beat AP by 15 lengths. 
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: tower912 on June 08, 2015, 03:39:46 PM
Secretariat would have beat any horse in my lifetime by 15 lengths.   That in no way diminishes the accomplishment of AP.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 08, 2015, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 08, 2015, 03:36:38 PM
Secretariat would have beat AP by 15 lengths.  

13 lengths.

In fact, AP would have been the closest horse to Secretariat if all the Triple Crown winners holograms ran simultaneously.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: GGGG on June 08, 2015, 03:42:16 PM
Quote from: PTM on June 08, 2015, 03:41:38 PM
13 lengths.

In fact, AP would have been the closest horse to Secretariat if all the Triple Crown winners holograms ran simultaneously.


Thank you...and wow.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 08, 2015, 05:46:17 PM
Quote from: PTM on June 08, 2015, 03:41:38 PM
13 lengths.

In fact, AP would have been the closest horse to Secretariat if all the Triple Crown winners holograms ran simultaneously.

Not sure if this is accurate. AP ran the sixth fastest Belmont. Easy Goer, AP Indy, and  Risen Star ran Faster. Affirmed ran about the same time but that was with Alydar looking him in the eye all around the track, AP got loose on an easy pace.

Of course the speed of the track is key and Andy Beyer says:

"And American Pharoah's performance in the Belmont was not of superhorse quality, no matter what millions of viewers might have thought as they watched him drawing away to win by 51/2 lengths. He ran 11/2 miles in 2:26.65 on the same card that a fair-to-middling group of older stakes horses covered the distance only 0.48 seconds slower. It was certainly a good effort: His Beyer Speed Figure of 105 was the best in the Belmont since 2007 but still a bit below the historical norm for the race. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/american-pharoah-deserves-his-place-in-horse-racing-history/2015/06/07/80760af8-0d26-11e5-9726-49d6fa26a8c6_story.html




Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 08, 2015, 06:43:13 PM
Quote from: Mutaman on June 08, 2015, 05:46:17 PM
Not sure if this is accurate. AP ran the sixth fastest Belmont. Easy Goer, AP Indy, and  Risen Star ran Faster. Affirmed ran about the same time but that was with Alydar looking him in the eye all around the track, AP got loose on an easy pace.

Of course the speed of the track is key and Andy Beyer says:

"And American Pharoah's performance in the Belmont was not of superhorse quality, no matter what millions of viewers might have thought as they watched him drawing away to win by 51/2 lengths. He ran 11/2 miles in 2:26.65 on the same card that a fair-to-middling group of older stakes horses covered the distance only 0.48 seconds slower. It was certainly a good effort: His Beyer Speed Figure of 105 was the best in the Belmont since 2007 but still a bit below the historical norm for the race. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/american-pharoah-deserves-his-place-in-horse-racing-history/2015/06/07/80760af8-0d26-11e5-9726-49d6fa26a8c6_story.html






http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/american-pharoahs-a-superhorse-but-hes-no-secretariat/
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 08, 2015, 07:18:23 PM
$100k x 100 jerk offs = $10 mil. horse. Sounds like high priced prostitution. Hope he's worth it, hey?
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 08, 2015, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: Mutaman on June 08, 2015, 05:46:17 PM
Not sure if this is accurate. AP ran the sixth fastest Belmont.  Easy Goer, AP Indy, and  Risen Star ran Faster.


It is accurate.  The stat was that it was second fastest among Triple Crown winners.  The horses you listed didn't win the Triple Crown.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Mutaman on June 08, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 08, 2015, 08:22:36 PM

It is accurate.  The stat was that it was second fastest among Triple Crown winners.  The horses you listed didn't win the Triple Crown.

You're right. I missed that part of it. He did run the second fastest Belmont of all Triple Crown Winners.
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: 🏀 on June 09, 2015, 08:50:30 AM
http://deadspin.com/this-is-what-it-would-look-like-if-american-pharoah-rac-1709988755
Title: Re: So will we have Triple Crown Winner on Saturday?
Post by: Benny B on June 09, 2015, 09:04:06 AM
Quote from: PTM on June 09, 2015, 08:50:30 AM
http://deadspin.com/this-is-what-it-would-look-like-if-american-pharoah-rac-1709988755

Comment #1:  Captain Gladys Stoatpamphlet -- "At last, video evidence that 2:24 is faster than 2:26."


Wow... Twice a Prince's time in 1973 would have showed at this year's Belmont.  So much for the theory that competition today is much better than it was in the early 70s.

Again, no disrespect to American Pharoah -- he's my vote for ESPN's athlete of the year... I don't care if Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck throws for 63 TDs and rushes for another 28 TDs -- but there's a reason that Bojack Horseman idolizes Secretariat.
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