They weren't switchables....they were white....what was the reason again?
Edited to fix Gasser's spelling of his last name for JayBee.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:39:13 PM
They weren't switchables....they were white....what was the reason again?
Didn't we take Blue over Gasser? I am ok with that.
Not sure Bert cared about someone's skin color....
Why couldn't CTC keep Trey Lyles?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2015, 08:47:19 PM
Why couldn't CTC keep Trey Lyles?
He had the good sense to recruit him.....did we even recruit Gasser or Dekker......
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:51:28 PM
He had the good sense to recruit him.....did we even recruit Gasser or Dekker......
Easier to do when you are oversigning, a'nia?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:51:28 PM
He had the good sense to recruit him.....did we even recruit Gasser or Dekker......
Why didn't Bo recruit Crowder or Butler....does he have any sense about NBA talent?
You can cheer for Bo & the badgers -- i am sure they will accept you.
Dekker committed when he was like a Freshman and never wavered. Gasser? Meh, nice player but I'm fine with mot getting him.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2015, 08:54:33 PM
Easier to do when you are oversigning, a'nia?
Probably....so why didn't Bert recruit Dekker, Gasser, Ellenson, Schowalter, etc? Did they have to high of basketball IQ or was it their ability to shoot the ball? Or that they are basketball players first and foremost....that's what I'm going with. Basketball players over athletes.
Bo didn't even want Gasser at first. Took him as a walk with a promise of a scholarship in year two, but then a scholarship became available when Diamond Taylor was booted.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 04, 2015, 08:58:52 PM
Bo didn't even want Gasser at first. Took him as a walk with a promise of a scholarship in year two, but then a scholarship became available when Diamond Taylor was booted.
Smart move by Bo. I wouldn't say he didn't want him, he did recruit him but opted not to give him a scholarship, but Gasser went there anyway.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:56:14 PM
Probably....so why didn't Bert recruit Dekker, Gasser, Ellenson, Schowalter, etc? Did they have to high of basketball IQ?
Dekker committed early. Bo got Gasser after Blue decommitted. Schowalter's dad played for Bo and was a walk on. Which Ellenson did Bo recruit?
Dekker committed early on in his HS career; not sure who "Gosser" is. Maybe their < 11% usage fifth year senior? Fills a role, but the fit is important. He works well for Becky; wouldn't for some other teams.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 04, 2015, 08:58:52 PM
Bo didn't even want Gasser at first. Took him as a walk with a promise of a scholarship in year two, but then a scholarship became available when Diamond Taylor was booted.
Yeah, Gasser was a second thought. Has worked out well,but he was no where near a first thought. As you say, a walk-on quality. Just worked on well beyond expectations. Good for him.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:59:56 PM
Smart move by Bo. I wouldn't say he didn't want him, he did recruit him but opted not to give him a scholarship, but Gasser went there anyway.
I said "at first." Clearly Bo wanted him, but only as a walk on after that.
Blue was a better player though.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
Dekker committed early. Bo got Gasser after Blue decommitted. Schowalter's dad played for Bo and was a walk on. Which Ellenson did Bo recruit?
Bo offered Henry.
I'm just always amazed at Bert's obsession with guys that couldn't shoot, not always the highest BBall IQ, but yes they were great athletes. I'll take the basketball players.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:04:25 PM
Bo offered Henry.
I'm just always amazed at Bert's obsession with guys that couldn't shoot, not always the highest BBall IQ, but yes they were great athletes. I'll take the basketball players.
Apparently we all have our obsessions...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:04:25 PM
Bo offered Henry.
I'm just always amazed at Bert's obsession with guys that couldn't shoot, not always the highest BBall IQ, but yes they were great athletes. I'll take the basketball players.
Are you saying Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, etc. weren't "basketball players?"
Are you just being particularly argumentative tonight or just basketball stupid?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:04:25 PM
Bo offered Henry.
I'm just always amazed at Bert's obsession with guys that couldn't shoot, not always the highest BBall IQ, but yes they were great athletes. I'll take the basketball players.
We know...
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 04, 2015, 09:06:50 PM
Are you saying Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, etc. weren't "basketball players?"
Are you just being particularly argumentative tonight or just basketball stupid?
Those guys were basketball players and good athletes. Some of our other guys (your "etc") were great athletes that played basketball. At times we could use a few more good basketball players....call them glue guys, call them whatever you wish....I prefer to call them shooters, but Buzz was foreign to that concept.
Quote from: ChitownJuan on April 04, 2015, 08:56:02 PM
Dekker committed when he was like a Freshman and never wavered. Gasser? Meh, nice player but I'm fine with mot getting him.
Buzz whiffed on Dekker. Yes, he committed early, but that was after Buzz had the chance to pursue him and decided against it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 04, 2015, 09:06:50 PM
Are you saying Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, etc. weren't "basketball players?"
Are you just being particularly argumentative tonight or just basketball stupid?
Think that Chicos is talking about HS kids, not the Jucoguys who are obvious and Buzz was able to get. Just not a sustainable outcome...?
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 04, 2015, 09:12:01 PM
Think that Chicos is talking about HS kids, not the Jucoguys who are obvious and Buzz was able to get. Just not a sustrightble outcome...?
Chicos is just bringing attention to himself again. Must have had a bad week at work or something.
I should know better.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 04, 2015, 09:10:13 PM
Buzz whiffed on Dekker. Yes, he committed early, but that was after Buzz had the chance to pursue him and decided against it.
He's an absolute stud. This tournament has made him millions more in money...he'll come out and be drafted probably 10 to 20 spots higher as a result of this tournament. Big time player.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:39:13 PM
They weren't switchables....they were white....what was the reason again?
it's such a dumb question, but since it's halftime i'll bite.
1. you always defended people who ripped crean, and did so in a manner like you saw the big picture that no one else could. if you want to live by that...then do the same for buzz.
2. buzz did recruit dekker. how much time did you want him to spend on dekker, when he only showed interest in UW.
3. why doesn't every coach run the swing, then they could recruit players like UW.
4. i didn't see a lack of talent at MU under buzz, and his success was solid. you're not qualified to judge buzz by anything more than wins and losses .
Gasser had an offer from Northwestern and was not even a priority recruit for UW. Sam committed as a soph and was solid. You win a few and you lose a few.
Why didn't Bert offer Ulis was the bigger issue.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2015, 09:19:13 PM
Why didn't Bert offer Ulis was the bigger issue.
Or Dunn, or Lamb, or...
They just said that Kaminsky started two games his first two years. grosser was a walk-on
And they two guys are leading Bucky to a lead against Kentucky.
Unbelievable.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 04, 2015, 09:14:08 PM
Chicos is just bringing attention to himself again. Must have had a bad week at work or something.
I should know better.
Had a great week in Lake Tahoe on vacation. Snow wasn't great, big drought out here....have $500 riding on this game....good try.....what's theory #2?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2015, 09:22:25 PM
They just said that Kaminsky started two games his first two years. grosser was a walk-on
And they two guys are leading Bucky to a lead against Kentucky.
Unbelievable.
Senior leadership....solid basketball players. Good formula.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:22:32 PM
Had a great week in Lake Tahoe on vacation. Snow wasn't great, big drought out here....have $500 riding on this game....good try.....what's theory #2?
Small penis.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:23:22 PM
Senior leadership....solid basketball players. Good formula.
So I should expect Luke and one of the twins to lead us into the FF next year?
It's not a good formula ... It's winning the lottery.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 04, 2015, 09:23:54 PM
Small penis.
Don't think so, but I've never measured it. Wife of 17 years seems happy. I've heard that guys that talk about penis size have their own sizing issues......
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2015, 09:24:52 PM
So I should expect Luke and one of the twins to lead us into the FF next year?
It's not a good formula ... It's winning the lottery.
Were the twins recruited to play by any high major programs? Gasser was offered by Arizona State, Maryland, Creighton, Northwestern, etc.
So the answer to your question....no....bad comparsion.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2015, 09:24:52 PMIt's not a good formula ... It's winning the lottery.
Bo has been recruiting the same guys for 14 years. Hell, everyone in the country takes chances on 7-foot 3* players. How many turned into the NPOY? My guess is the list is one. Bucky got lucky. They're still good, but Kaminsky was incredibly dumb luck.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 04, 2015, 09:29:45 PM
Bo has been recruiting the same guys for 14 years. Hell, everyone in the country takes chances on 7-foot 3* players. How many turned into the NPOY? My guess is the list is one. Bucky got lucky. They're still good, but Kaminsky was incredibly dumb luck.
And Bo can coach.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 04, 2015, 09:29:45 PM
Bo has been recruiting the same guys for 14 years. Hell, everyone in the country takes chances on 7-foot 3* players. How many turned into the NPOY? My guess is the list is one. Bucky got lucky. They're still good, but Kaminsky was incredibly dumb luck.
No question they got lucky on that one, but it happens. He saw something in him that others didn't.
Chicos plays dumb like a fox. Bo is abgreat cosch who can teach 3 star players to play like 5?star players, much like Lombardi.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on April 04, 2015, 09:35:01 PM
And Bo can coach.
So why isn't Kaminsky Bo's fifth guy from Bucky to ride the bench to blow up and be NPOY? (and what about Brian Butch?)
In fact name me another guy to start two games in two years to go on to be NPOY, from any school?
Because it's the equivalent of winning the lottery.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:35:07 PM
No question they got lucky on that one, but it happens. He saw something in him that others didn't.
Yeah, a bench player. Straight from Bo's mouth during a Barkley interview.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2015, 09:39:59 PM
So why isn't Kaminsky Bo's fifth guy from Bucky to ride the bench to blow up and be NPOY? (and what about Brian Butch?)
In fact name me another guy to start two games in two years to go on to be NPOY, from any school?
Because it's the equivalent of winning the lottery.
Almost sounds like a crapshoot, aina?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:35:07 PM
No question they got lucky on that one, but it happens. He saw something in him that others didn't.
He saw nothing in him, that is why he was buried on the bench for two years. This is all on Kaminsky for figuring it out.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2015, 09:41:38 PM
He saw nothing in him, that is why he was buried on the bench for two years. This is all on Kaminsky for figuring it out.
Bo did his part, but he definitely fell into that one. Kaminsky is one in a million, Bo was flat out lucky to get him.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2015, 09:39:59 PM
So why isn't Kaminsky Bo's fifth guy from Bucky to ride the bench to blow up and be NPOY? (and what about Brian Butch?)
In fact name me another guy to start two games in two years to go on to be NPOY, from any school?
Because it's the equivalent of winning the lottery.
Sometimes it's about the players around you. Was Gardner better his junior year or senior year? Did he have more talent around him his junior year that opened up the lane for him? Did Brian Butch have that kind of talent around him? Maybe, maybe not.
This is Bo's best team ever, and when you have 5 guys at any time that can it a 3 pointer, it makes life for a 7 footer a little easier, especially when the 7 footer can hit that 3 also.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2015, 09:41:38 PM
He saw nothing in him, that is why he was buried on the bench for two years. This is all on Kaminsky for figuring it out.
All on Kaminsky....uhm, ok.
I'm guessing if you were fair minded about this you would say it was some on Kaminsky, some on the coaching staff, some on him being a late bloomer, etc.
Did Chris Crawford figure it all out by himself? Did Amal McCaskill? Did Jim MacIlvaine?
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 04, 2015, 09:46:34 PM
Bo did his part, but he definitely fell into that one. Kaminsky is one in a million, Bo was flat out lucky to get him.
Carmody at NU told Frank we wasn't good enough to play in the B1G, but he took his Benet teammate Sobolewski. NU could have made the tourney and he would have kept his job.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2015, 09:50:22 PM
Carmody at NU told Frank we wasn't good enough to play in the B1G, but he took his Benet teammate Sobolewski. NU could have made the tourney and he would have kept his job.
Then why did he offer Frank a scholarship at NU?
http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Frank-Kaminsky-7502/RecruitInterests
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:58:24 PM
Then why did he offer Frank a scholarship at NU?
http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Frank-Kaminsky-7502/RecruitInterests
That's not correct. Carmody didn't even meet with Frank when he visited.
This discussion reminds me of the Bucky team that lead the country in free-throw percentage.
Everyone insisted it was Due to Bo being a FT genius. Then the good shooters left and they went right back to being average.
This is why corporate America and ADs always make mistakes, they cannot separate dumb luck out of a performance.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:58:24 PM
Then why did he offer Frank a scholarship at NU?
http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Frank-Kaminsky-7502/RecruitInterests
On a speakerphone...
Quote from: PandTandMand... on April 04, 2015, 10:00:39 PM
That's not correct. Carmody didn't even meet with Frank when he visited.
So NU didn't offer?
Chicago Tribune says Northwestern offered in this article......mystery
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-04-03/sports/ct-frank-kaminsky-wisconsin-haugh-spt-0404-20140404_1_madison-street-dave-sobolewski-north-texas
QuoteTop assistant Tavaras Hardy (now at Georgetown) took Frank and Mary around campus and into Carmody's office. Via speaker phone, the head coach offered a scholarship.
He wanted Sobolewski so he offered Frank.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-frank-kaminsky-wisconsin-basketball-spt-0116-20150115-column.html#page=1
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2015, 10:15:07 PM
He wanted Sobolewski so he offered Frank.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-frank-kaminsky-wisconsin-basketball-spt-0116-20150115-column.html#page=1
Ahh, so he was offered....thanks
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 09:27:08 PM
Don't think so, but I've never measured it. Wife of 17 years seems happy.
That's not what she tells me.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 10:16:05 PM
Ahh, so he was offered....thanks
Lol...on a speakerphone after not taking the time to meet him on campus. Yeah he "offered"
//
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 04, 2015, 10:19:33 PM
Lol...on a speakerphone after not taking the time to meet him on campus. Yeah he "offered"
I'm pretty sure the assistant coaches were pushing an offer as well, if you read some of the articles.
I'm just glad we put to rest the mystery....so 247 wasn't wrong, neither was the Chicago Tribune, or Frank's dad who confirmed that NU offered. I was worried there was a lot of lying or misinformation going on there. Good this was solved. :)
Quote from: avid1010 on April 04, 2015, 09:15:29 PM
it's such a dumb question, but since it's halftime i'll bite.
1. you always defended people who ripped crean, and did so in a manner like you saw the big picture that no one else could. if you want to live by that...then do the same for buzz.
2. buzz did recruit dekker. how much time did you want him to spend on dekker, when he only showed interest in UW.
3. why doesn't every coach run the swing, then they could recruit players like UW.
4. i didn't see a lack of talent at MU under buzz, and his success was solid. you're not qualified to judge buzz by anything more than wins and losses .
+1
Especially to #1
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:39:13 PM
They weren't switchables....they were white....what was the reason again?
Edited to fix Gasser's spelling of his last name for JayBee.
Remind me again why you constantly bring up race and then slam others who bring up race?
Why are you making this post? did you ever start a thread calling into question creans coaching after-the-fact? I honestly don't know the answer to it, but I'm gueasing the answer would provide a lot of clarity.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2015, 10:31:49 PM
Remind me again why you constantly bring up race and then slam others who bring up race?
Context is everything. I slam people whn they say things like Hands Up, Don't shoot and lie since it never happened and then make it a thing that could have impacted a man's life by sending him to prison.
Context....context....context. Buzz seemed to avoid certain type of kids, not sure why. There are some similarities between them, perhaps just similarities.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 10:34:27 PM
Context is everything. I slam people whn they say things like Hands Up, Don't shoot and lie since it never happened and then make it a thing that could have impacted a man's life by sending him to prison.
Context....context....context. Buzz seemed to avoid certain type of kids, not sure why. There are some similarities between them, perhaps just similarities.
Over 20,000 posts and I think we have a winner: the all time biggest load of gibberish.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 10:34:27 PM
Context is everything. I slam people whn they say things like Hands Up, Don't shoot and lie since it never happened and then make it a thing that could have impacted a man's life by sending him to prison.
Context....context....context. Buzz seemed to avoid certain type of kids, not sure why. There are some similarities between them, perhaps just similarities.
So you just brought up race again.....did Buzz Williams recruit based on the color of one's skin? You are big on sources -- where is your source?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 10:34:27 PM
Context is everything. I slam people whn they say things like Hands Up, Don't shoot and lie since it never happened and then make it a thing that could have impacted a man's life by sending him to prison.
Context....context....context. Buzz seemed to avoid certain type of kids, not sure why. There are some similarities between them, perhaps just similarities.
The only necessary context is you are an agitator. You love arguing about pretty much anything, even if doing so often confirms you are a hypocrite. Congrats on being No. 1 at something.
Quote from: avid1010 on April 04, 2015, 09:15:29 PM
it's such a dumb question, but since it's halftime i'll bite.
1. you always defended people who ripped crean, and did so in a manner like you saw the big picture that no one else could. if you want to live by that...then do the same for buzz.
2. buzz did recruit dekker. how much time did you want him to spend on dekker, when he only showed interest in UW.
3. why doesn't every coach run the swing, then they could recruit players like UW.
4. i didn't see a lack of talent at MU under buzz, and his success was solid. you're not qualified to judge buzz by anything more than wins and losses .
Au contraire, as the leader of the basketball program we are all qualified to judge him on more than wins and losses...on things like his players committing sexual assault, punching students in the face, getting people fired for NCAA violations, etc, etc.
Did Buzz recruit Dekker? I'm asking....most people on this thread imply he didn't, but if you have different information I'd love to hear it.
Buzz had some very good talent, most of it from the JUCO ranks. He rarely could get any from the high school ranks where you build stability and sustain success.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 08:39:13 PM
They weren't switchables....they were white....what was the reason again?
Edited to fix Gasser's spelling of his last name for JayBee.
1. Decker was always going to UW - committed early
2. St. Bo didn't want Gasser either, dummy. He only took him when the guy he wanted (the guy who didn't want MU because of Crean) came to us because of Buzz.
But stay classy with the inaccurate and snarky comments. You're all about "facts". Spinning them to defend TC and making them up to rip Buzz. Disgusting but typical.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 04, 2015, 10:34:20 PM
Why are you making this post? did you ever start a thread calling into question creans coaching after-the-fact? I honestly don't know the answer to it, but I'm gueasing the answer would provide a lot of clarity.
Yes, and some some blog posts on Cracked Sidewalks as well.
I asked the question, or started the post because I have always felt you build a program with high school players, let kids go through the system, learn, get experience, go after solid basketball players with traditional fundamentals (can shoot, pass, shoot free throws, high BBall IQ, etc). It's how I think a program should be built. Quite frankly, since you brought up Crean, I think this is exactly why he hasn't done as well as he should at IU. He goes after too many high flyers, not enough guys that will stick around. You need both.
There has been a ton of talent in this state for some time. That doesn't mean top 25 talent, but very good, fundamentally strong, traditional basketball players. We shy away from them like the plague.
It's one thing I like about Wojo and hope that he goes back to the basics in who he goes after. Buzz didn't do it and it was one of many things I didn't care about his approach.
Bumstead wasn't big on traditionals, ai na? Loved the old chip on shoulder deal or have a story thing to tell.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 04, 2015, 11:10:36 PM
1. Decker was always going to UW - committed early
Committed early, yes. Always going to UW? No.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 04, 2015, 10:37:15 PM
So you just brought up race again.....did Buzz Williams recruit based on the color of one's skin? You are big on sources -- where is your source?
I don't think so, but there are some coaches that assume some players are more "athletic" based on certain traits. I used to work for one at MU. It's the same reason why people to this day say that UW is slow and methodical, when in fact they are one of the most explosive teams in college basketball. I don't know why Buzz shyed away from kids that could shoot, play fundamental hoops..I never understood why he got rid of Scott Christopherson, who also fits that mold. Just not the type of player he recruited out of high school for whatever reason. You would have to ask him.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2015, 11:25:57 PM
I don't think so, but there are some coaches that assume some players are more "athletic" based on certain traits. I used to work for on at MU. It's the same reason why people to this day say that UW is slow and methodical, when in fact they are one of the most explosive teams in college basketball. I don't know why Buzz shyed away from kids that could shoot, play fundamental hoops..I never understood why he got rid of Scott Christopherson, who also fits that mold. Just not the type of player he recruited out of high school for whatever reason. You would have to ask him.
I have more issue with him trying to run off Acker and Cooby, then after having success with them, not realizing he needed that type of player. Instead we end up with guys like Junior and Derrick that were stoutly built but couldn't shoot instead of dynamic point guards like Dunn and Ulis.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2015, 10:54:16 PM
The only necessary context is you are an agitator. You love arguing about pretty much anything, even if doing so often confirms you are a hypocrite. Congrats on being No. 1 at something.
Happy Easter. Christ rises tomorrow. I am thankful.