I'm sure the numbers nerds can help me on this but I look at their schedule and see not one great non-conference win. I guess they have two good non-conference wins in Murray State and Cincinnati but is beating the 4th place team in a two bid conference really a "good" win?
In conference they were the definition of mediocrity with more than half of their wins coming against Marquette, Creighton, Hall, and DePaul (the Feeble Foursome). I do see they swept the Hoyas, but that's a squad who's best non-conference win is everyone's favorite Indiana (which I assume the agreement amongst Scoopers is they suck).
Was it the trip to Saturday night in the Garden that puts them over the top? Is that good for us that we can be just as mediocre with a pedestrian 9-9 next season with one or two key wins on the way to Saturday night and still get a berth?
It is a sign that the Big East is the real deal. They weren't even close to the bubble.
KenPom = 26
RPI = 30
They beat Butler 2 out of 3. They swept Georgetown. (Both are ranked.)
A lock.
RPI of 30
SOS of 8
20 games vs. RPI top 100 teams (11-9 record)
8 wins vs. RPI top 50 teams
Only 2 games vs. RPI sub-200 teams
They had a very solid resume. They didn't have that one big marquee win, but they had a lot of very solid W's and a very tough schedule.
RPI 30
SOS 8
vs. RPI TOP 25 4-4
vs. RPI TOP 50 8-7
vs. RPI TOP 100 11-9
Wins @ 25 Georgetown, @41 Cincy, N-25 Georgetown, N-31 Butler
Beat 12 seed Stephen F. Austin who is 35 in RPI, a team that played No. Iowa to within 2.
That's a lock! Maybe they're overseeded due to the BE tourney run but Xavier is a tourney team. Some bad losses but a lot of nice wins.
Better question is why is Dayton allowed to play on their home court for the playin game, ai na?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 17, 2015, 09:42:07 AM
Better question is why is Dayton allowed to play on their home court for the playin game, ai na?
So you either have to find them another place to play, or you bump them off the play-in game line.
The former is logistically very difficult on 2 or 3 days notice. The latter isn't really fair either.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 17, 2015, 09:32:32 AM
It is a sign that the Big East is the real deal. They weren't even close to the bubble.
This. I don't even think they were considered on the bubble going into the Big East Tourney.
This is a true product of the non-conference that the Big East had early this season.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 17, 2015, 09:46:50 AM
So you either have to find them another place to play, or you bump them off the play-in game line.
The former is logistically very difficult on 2 or 3 days notice. The latter isn't really fair either.
One would think that the NCAA, in their infinite wisdom, woulda perceived of this potential issue long ago, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 17, 2015, 09:51:59 AM
One would think that the NCAA, in their infinite wisdom, woulda perceived of this potential issue long ago, hey?
According to the interview with the head of the Committee, they did...and decided to keep Dayton there if it ever came down to that.
They were out, but when they beat butler gt that was enough. 6 seed still to high for me.
Quote from: Johnny B on March 17, 2015, 09:57:29 AM
They were out, but when they beat butler gt that was enough. 6 seed still to high for me.
You think beating Butler moved them from out of the tournament to a six seed?
I know you could run into the same problem with UNLV, but it would seem like Vegas would be such a great place for the "First Four" games. I'm sure they want to reduce travel, but it would provide a venue for better crowds in a city that is already jazzed up for the tourney. The city already plays host to 4 conference tournaments, so it isn't as though the NCAA has a problem with Vegas and the gambling.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 17, 2015, 09:58:35 AM
You think beating Butler moved them from out of the tournament to a six seed?
And goergetown?
Quote from: Marquette_g on March 17, 2015, 09:58:45 AM
I know you could run into the same problem with UNLV, but it would seem like Vegas would be such a great place for the "First Four" games. I'm sure they want to reduce travel, but it would provide a venue for better crowds in a city that is already jazzed up for the tourney. The city already plays host to 4 conference tournaments, so it isn't as though the NCAA has a problem with Vegas and the gambling.
Dayton is all about logistics. Most of the schools are from east of the Mississippi. (Only Boise and BYU would be closer to Las Vegas of the first four schools.)
Furthermore, the winners head to Louisville, Columbus, Jacksonville and Charlotte. Las Vegas is a significant distance from all of those places. (The winners usually fly out to their next city after the game is over.)
Fanbases aren't going to travel in signifcant numbers to Vegas or Dayton for this game with only 2 or 3 days notice. It is all about a central location, where the locals show up (and they do), and the bid they get from the school.
Quote from: Johnny B on March 17, 2015, 09:59:18 AM
And goergetown?
No. Two wins didn't get them into the tournament. They were in. Bracket Matrix had them as a lock as a 7 or 8 seed.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 17, 2015, 09:37:20 AM
KenPom = 26
RPI = 30
They beat Butler 2 out of 3. They swept Georgetown. (Both are ranked.)
A lock.
But were they a stone cold lock?
Quote from: Johnny B on March 17, 2015, 09:57:29 AM
They were out, but when they beat butler gt that was enough. 6 seed still to high for me.
Ahhh....no.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 17, 2015, 09:38:13 AM
RPI of 30
SOS of 8
20 games vs. RPI top 100 teams (11-9 record)
8 wins vs. RPI top 50 teams
Only 2 games vs. RPI sub-200 teams
They had a very solid resume. They didn't have that one big marquee win, but they had a lot of very solid W's and a very tough schedule.
Numbers-wise it is pretty solid, especially that SOS. Goes to show how key it is to have some prudence with your scheduling of the dregs and winning a road game once in a while even if the opponent isn't a world beater. It's a format Marquette can follow.
Just funny to me that X seems to be the same squad as last year -- namely, bombing 3s at home and sometimes dreadful on the road -- but their flat on their faces performances (including NCAA against NC State) don't hold them back with numbers like that.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 17, 2015, 10:04:11 AM
Dayton is all about logistics. Most of the schools are from east of the Mississippi. (Only Boise and BYU would be closer to Las Vegas of the first four schools.)
Furthermore, the winners head to Louisville, Columbus, Jacksonville and Charlotte. Las Vegas is a significant distance from all of those places. (The winners usually fly out to their next city after the game is over.)
Fanbases aren't going to travel in signifcant numbers to Vegas or Dayton for this game with only 2 or 3 days notice. It is all about a central location, where the locals show up (and they do), and the bid they get from the school.
I get this, although this could be mitigated by putting the first four teams into the western regionals (Portland and Seattle this year). I'm not sure that a ton of fans of the teams playing are traveling to Dayton for the play-in game (although I've done zero research on this). I think they rely on the local Dayton community. Vegas would be the same in that the attendees wouldn't be required (or likely) to be fans of the teams playing, but rather fans of the tournament.
Quote from: Marquette_g on March 17, 2015, 10:51:27 AM
I get this, although this could be mitigated by putting the first four teams into the western regionals (Portland and Seattle this year). I'm not sure that a ton of fans of the teams playing are traveling to Dayton for the play-in game (although I've done zero research on this). I think they rely on the local Dayton community. Vegas would be the same in that the attendees wouldn't be required (or likely) to be fans of the teams playing, but rather fans of the tournament.
I would consider an event like this....Fly out Sat morning and catch the conference tourney championships. Then watch the Tuesday games and take a red-eye home to be back at work Wed.
Quote from: Marquette_g on March 17, 2015, 09:58:45 AM
I know you could run into the same problem with UNLV, but it would seem like Vegas would be such a great place for the "First Four" games. I'm sure they want to reduce travel, but it would provide a venue for better crowds in a city that is already jazzed up for the tourney. The city already plays host to 4 conference tournaments, so it isn't as though the NCAA has a problem with Vegas and the gambling.
The conferences host their tournaments in Vegas, the NCAA does not. No NCAA-hosted events (i.e., the tournament) are allowed in Vegas.
Edit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/conference-tournaments-hit-jackpot-in-las-vegas-much-to-chagrin-of-ncaa/2015/03/11/adc461cc-c810-11e4-bea5-b893e7ac3fb3_story.html
"Though it has no authority over where conferences hold their postseason events, the NCAA has rules in place that prevent any NCAA tournament games from being played in a state that offers legal wagering on their outcomes."
Quote from: drewm88 on March 17, 2015, 11:07:52 AM
The conferences host their tournaments in Vegas, the NCAA does not. No NCAA-hosted events (i.e., the tournament) are allowed in Vegas.
Edit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/conference-tournaments-hit-jackpot-in-las-vegas-much-to-chagrin-of-ncaa/2015/03/11/adc461cc-c810-11e4-bea5-b893e7ac3fb3_story.html
"Though it has no authority over where conferences hold their postseason events, the NCAA has rules in place that prevent any NCAA tournament games from being played in a state that offers legal wagering on their outcomes."
Thank you for the information - it shouldn't really come as any surprise that the NCAA wants to pretend that the popularity of their event isn't directly related to the gambling they are trying to avoid.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on March 17, 2015, 09:28:26 AM
I'm sure the numbers nerds can help me on this but I look at their schedule and see not one great non-conference win. I guess they have two good non-conference wins in Murray State and Cincinnati but is beating the 4th place team in a two bid conference really a "good" win?
In conference they were the definition of mediocrity with more than half of their wins coming against Marquette, Creighton, Hall, and DePaul (the Feeble Foursome). I do see they swept the Hoyas, but that's a squad who's best non-conference win is everyone's favorite Indiana (which I assume the agreement amongst Scoopers is they suck).
Was it the trip to Saturday night in the Garden that puts them over the top? Is that good for us that we can be just as mediocre with a pedestrian 9-9 next season with one or two key wins on the way to Saturday night and still get a berth?
Agreed - X (Xavier, not BrandX) is the definition of mediocrity. But I don't think it is any worse than Georgetown being a 4 seed. Just shows the mediocrity that is college basketball.
I've been watching for well over 40 years and have never seen such bad basketball played on such a consistent basis.
One HUGE reason Xavier is in is because of their absolute genius non-conference scheduling. The Big East had three teams with top-40 non-conference schedules, and because of how tough the league was this year, that gave them top-11 overall schedules. Providence (OOC 20, SOS 5), Georgetown (OOC 12, SOS 11), and Xavier (OOC 36, SOS 8) all had great SOS numbers but what's amazing about Xavier is that they did it in a completely different way. Providence got there by playing Kentucky (1) and Notre Dame (15), while Georgetown had Wisconsin (3), Butler (32), and Kansas (2).
Xavier, meanwhile, had Stephen F Austin (32), Cincinnati (33), and...umm...Murray State (62)? How do they get a top-10 schedule with those as their best opponents?!? That's why their schedule was brilliant. The worst RPI teams Xavier played were Missouri (218) and IUPUI (260). They played small schools that had good records (good for RPI) and big schools (Mizzou, Auburn) with bad records but lots of opponents (in the SEC) that had good records (also good for RPI).
Even though Xavier lost two sub-100 non-con games, their non-con RPI was still 26 because there were virtually no big drains on the schedule. Non-conference scheduling isn't just about how big the high-profile games you play are, but about bringing in the "good" cupcakes and playing teams that will be in that 100-200 range. That's a huge part of not only why Xavier is in (they were a lock after winning at Creighton before the BET) but why they are a 6-seed.
Brew, I wasn't questioning that they should be in the Dance - just sayin' they are nothing special.
Quote from: brandx on March 17, 2015, 03:39:53 PM
Brew, I wasn't questioning that they should be in the Dance - just sayin' they are nothing special.
LOL
I started that response hours before you posted and got busy at work. Not in response to you ;)
More just pointing out how Xavier put together a schedule that made them a NCAA lock despite that schedule really not being all that impressive. I agree that they aren't anything special. I haven't really been impressed by them all season. But their non-con schedule shows how you can build a locked in tourney schedule with an average conference record without playing juggernaut opposition.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 17, 2015, 04:09:37 PM
LOL
I started that response hours before you posted and got busy at work. Not in response to you ;)
More just pointing out how Xavier put together a schedule that made them a NCAA lock despite that schedule really not being all that impressive. I agree that they aren't anything special. I haven't really been impressed by them all season. But their non-con schedule shows how you can build a locked in tourney schedule with an average conference record without playing juggernaut opposition.
No prob.
But don't you think a lot of that is just luck? You can guess on these things, but an injury happens and one of the cupcakes is suddenly in the 300s.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 17, 2015, 09:42:07 AM
Better question is why is Dayton allowed to play on their home court for the playin game, ai na?
Because they are Dayton and they would not go if at least one game wasn't played at the UD Arena.
I can hardly wait until Dayton successfully moves the NCAA tournament from Indianapolis to the UD Arena, where it belongs LOL.
Quote from: brandx on March 17, 2015, 04:45:16 PM
No prob.
But don't you think a lot of that is just luck? You can guess on these things, but an injury happens and one of the cupcakes is suddenly in the 300s.
It can be, but I do believe there is a science to it. Focus on teams that usually finish high in their league. Even if they bust they should be close to .500, which is decent for a buy game. I also like the idea of scheduling the stronger mid majors. Even weaker teams from the Horizon, MVC, or WCC play against a lot of teams with good records in conference, which is better than playing a team like Grambling that usually has a weak record and plays weak teams.
Then you have high majors. Xavier played Alabama, Auburn, and Missouri. None are great, but generally a high major will finish close to .500 or better and play against teams that are over .500. (Mizzou was an exception this year). An Ohio State may make for better television, but beating an Alabama is better for your RPI.
Quote from: brandx on March 17, 2015, 11:35:47 AM
Agreed - X (Xavier, not BrandX) is the definition of mediocrity. But I don't think it is any worse than Georgetown being a 4 seed. Just shows the mediocrity that is college basketball.
I've been watching for well over 40 years and have never seen such bad basketball played on such a consistent basis.
Honestly, the Big East, just like the Big 12, was overseeded. I don't see how anyone can justify this mediocre 13 loss team as a 6th seed just because they won a couple key games at the right time. I thought putting 18 win, 13 loss OK State as a 9 seed was bad, and Xavier being a 6 is just as bad if not worse.
Quote from: statnik on March 18, 2015, 12:18:01 AM
Honestly, the Big East, just like the Big 12, was overseeded. I don't see how anyone can justify this mediocre 13 loss team as a 6th seed just because they won a couple key games at the right time. I thought putting 18 win, 13 loss OK State as a 9 seed was bad, and Xavier being a 6 is just as bad if not worse.
Xavier was overseeded, but the league was not. On comparative resumes I'd say Butler and Providence were underseeded. Louisville (without Jones), Northern Iowa, & Arkansas could all stand to drop a seed line or two at the Big East's expense.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 18, 2015, 02:58:19 AM
Xavier was overseeded, but the league was not. On comparative resumes I'd say Butler and Providence were underseeded. Louisville (without Jones), Northern Iowa, & Arkansas could all stand to drop a seed line or two at the Big East's expense.
Villanova was seeded where they should be, Butler was slightly underseeded (could be a 5 seed, but it's probably better for matchups they are a 6 anyway), Providence was also seeded where they should be. GTown was overseeded imo, should be about a 6 seed.