Poll
Question:
Which former MU coach will be in a new job first (from firing or otherwise)?
Option 1: Buzz Williams
Option 2: Tom Crean
Question says it all
We had this one about 6 years ago with the clear majority here saying Crean would be gone from IU before Buzz was at MU. Lots of people lost that one.
I still say Crean leaves on his own, and yes it will be before Burt leaves Va. Tech because very few care about Va Tech and many more care about IU to the point of delusion.
I'm guessing Crean...but mainly because he has already been at I4 for several years. I'll bet Buzz lasts only 3 or 4 years at VT.
Why wouldn't we ask who lasts longer at their current gig: Buzz or Wojo?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2015, 09:32:06 PM
We had this one about 6 years ago with the clear majority here saying Crean would be gone from IU before Buzz was at MU. Lots of people lost that one.
I still say Crean leaves on his own, and yes it will be before Burt leaves Va. Tech because very few care about Va Tech and many more care about IU to the point of delusion.
A "clear majority" said Crean would be gone before Buzz? You are flat out making that up. Why? I have no idea. But you are.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 11, 2015, 02:23:01 PM
A "clear majority" said Crean would be gone before Buzz? You are flat out making that up. Why? I have no idea. But you are.
The same reason he makes all sorts of stuff up - to hang another banner to himself.
Crean much like his brother in law will NOT be fired but it will be a MUTUAL PARTING.
#baloney
#orisitbalogna
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 11, 2015, 02:23:01 PM
A "clear majority" said Crean would be gone before Buzz? You are flat out making that up. Why? I have no idea. But you are.
Nope, but I did get my dates slightly wrong. 4.5 years ago...Go to the threads here...the predictions that Crean would be fired that year, etc. Quite entertaining. I feel like I'm in a timewarp again. The number of threads over the years here saying Crean would be fired that year is off the charts....and yes, the majority at the time said Crean was gone and Buzz would be here "as long as we would have him".
Use the search, but I do regret saying 6 years and not 4.5 years. I guess that gives you an out. My bad.
probably crean b/c he has a headstart, but buzz will put together a couple of mediocre years and be in texas faster than you can say there's awl in them thar hills
Last night during the MU-SH game, I was texting one of my kids who is at IU. I asked him about the IU-Northwestern game coming up tonight. After he said he couldn't believe IU lost to them earlier, I said "I blame the tanned one." He replied, "Everyone here does. They all want him gone, but apparently they aren't getting rid of him." "IU has no big men in their next recruiting class." No different than when he was at MU.
I say Crean is gone before Brunt.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on March 12, 2015, 01:28:40 PM
Last night during the MU-SH game, I was texting one of my kids who is at IU. I asked him about the IU-Northwestern game coming up tonight. After he said he couldn't believe IU lost to them earlier, I said "I blame the tanned one." He replied, "Everyone here does. They all want him gone, but apparently they aren't getting rid of him." "IU has no big men in their next recruiting class." No different than when he was at MU.
I say Crean is gone before Brunt.
They have two forwards coming in, 6'8" and 6'7" along with a good possibility of landing Thomas Bryant still, who is 6'10".
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 12, 2015, 10:55:31 PM
They have two forwards coming in, 6'8" and 6'7" along with a good possibility of landing Thomas Bryant still, who is 6'10".
Bryant only became a possibility when Syracuse went down. Could be a job saver for Crean. The other two guys are just guys.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 12, 2015, 10:55:31 PM
They have two forwards coming in, 6'8" and 6'7" along with a good possibility of landing Thomas Bryant still, who is 6'10".
Crean's "bigs" he landed while at MU
6'8" - Blackledge, Burke, Amoroso, Marcus Jackson, Sanders, Freund,
6'7" - Hazel, Mbawke,
Saunders, Townsend, Blankson...(Only one finished his career with MU)
players over 6'9" with Crean: Fitz, Barro, Kinsella, Grimm, Novak, Rob Jackson, Merritt
So for a nine-year stretch, averaging a 6'7", 6'8" and one 6'9"+ every two years is par for the course for Crean.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 13, 2015, 01:27:47 AM
Crean's "bigs" he landed while at MU
6'8" - Blackledge, Burke, Amoroso, Marcus Jackson, Sanders, Freund,
6'7" - Hazel, Mbawke, Saunders, Townsend, Blankson...(Only one finished his career with MU)
players over 6'9" with Crean: Fitz, Barro, Kinsella, Grimm, Novak, Rob Jackson, Merritt
So for a nine-year stretch, averaging a 6'7", 6'8" and one 6'9"+ every two years is par for the course for Crean.
He believes in a smaller, attacking style offense. Buzz didn't have a bunch of bigs either, at least with the definition you are giving.
It's not the type of offense that he runs.
Still think he's getting fired this year?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 01:49:28 AM
He believes in a smaller, attacking style offense. Buzz didn't have a bunch of bigs either, at least with the definition you are giving.
It's not the type of offense that he runs.
Still think he's getting fired this year?
I think he's going to quit.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 13, 2015, 08:11:04 AM
I think he's going to quit.
I've always felt he will leave before being fired, but I continue to also believe the conversations I've had with Fred Glass and others and they have no intention of changing things up because few people know how bad it truly was when he took over. In fact, I would argue that some are afraid that TC will spill the beans on what exactly was going on.
At any rate, the number of times people here have had him fired should be part of the meme tournament.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 08:58:04 AM
I would argue that some are afraid that TC will spill the beans on what exactly was going on.
That'd be an interesting way to completely end one's career as a high-major ball coach.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 01:49:28 AM
He believes in a smaller, attacking style offense.
It's not the type of offense that he runs.
1. 16 = number of seasons at MU and IU
2. 3 = number of seasons he's had a good, traditional, back to the basket low post center.
3. 8 = number of NCAA tournament wins in those 3 years.
4. 1 = number of NCAA tournament wins in those 13 years without one.
5. 2 = conference championships won in the 3 years with a solid center.
6. 0 = conference championships won in the 13 years without one.
If he truly "believes" in the doughnut hole, centerless offense he's run for 13 of his 16 years as a head coach he is way dumber than even his harshest critics give him credit for being.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 08:58:04 AM
I've always felt he will leave before being fired, but I continue to also believe the conversations I've had with Fred Glass and others and they have no intention of changing things up because few people know how bad it truly was when he took over. In fact, I would argue that some are afraid that TC will spill the beans on what exactly was going on.
At any rate, the number of times people here have had him fired should be part of the meme tournament.
In these convos with Fred, have you expressed to him that you find it "stupid" that he "lied" about the $3MM buyout?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 08:58:04 AM
I've always felt he will leave before being fired, but I continue to also believe the conversations I've had with Fred Glass and others and they have no intention of changing things up because few people know how bad it truly was when he took over. In fact, I would argue that some are afraid that TC will spill the beans on what exactly was going on.
At any rate, the number of times people here have had him fired should be part of the meme tournament.
BS. The buyout is his life jacket, nothing else. But do prattle on with made up "insider info" and innuendo about Crean and IU - the fairy tales are almost as entertaining as the stuff you make up about MU.
Quote from: Eckhart Tolle on March 13, 2015, 09:00:13 AM
That'd be an interesting way to completely end one's career as a high-major ball coach.
That's why I don't think he would do it, but he's crazy enough that who knows. Often times its simply the threat that people know you know where all the bodies are buried that is enough.
I can name many a high ranking executive in movie studio, HBOs, etc roles that are around because they have the map of the bodies. I have no doubt that exists in other industries, gov't positions, etc.
Now, all that being said, that's not what Glass and the proper folks believe. They know deep down that IU hasn't been an elite program in 20+ years. They are a brand, they are blueblood, but that's much different. They have a fanbase that still cannot get past the fact that Bob Knight was also an a-hole of epic portions, but he won....except at the end. The last 5+ years of Knight's program they were not close to the IU of old, but many of the delusional people that follow the program can't process that.
IU could be elite again, maybe. Problem is, and some of the top people at IU will say this in confidence, none of those type of super coaches want the job and put up with the crap and they (IU) aren't willing to go down the path again to cut corners....they were burned already. Crean was nowhere close to their top choice. The way the state and fans have treated the last three coaches, anyone of high high quality wants no part of IU....it isn't worth it. I've heard this from some of the highest ranking sports people in the world that are IU alums and well connected to the university.
If they make the tournament this year, when they were predicted not to, that would be 3 in 4 years. Depending on who comes back next year, they have a chance to be pretty darn good if the right pieces come back. They are trying to build some stability, but with delusional people still at the worship alter it makes their lives extremely difficult.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 09:42:10 AM
That's why I don't think he would do it, but he's crazy enough that who knows. Often times its simply the threat that people know you know where all the bodies are buried that is enough.
I can name many a high ranking executive in movie studio, HBOs, etc roles that are around because they have the map of the bodies. I have no doubt that exists in other industries, gov't positions, etc.
Don't believe a word of this.
As someone just said here, "spilling the beans" is the quickest way to end a career.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 13, 2015, 09:08:23 AM
In these convos with Fred, have you expressed to him that you find it "stupid" that he "lied" about the $3MM buyout?
No, I don't talk to people that way directly. Do I find it stupid, yes. Do I find the Alford contract stupid, yes. I wouldn't tell Dan (Guerrero) that directly in my conversations with him, but I do find those contracts stupid.
Not sure what you mean by the $3MM.
Additional commentary & explanation on Crean's deal with Indiana... from LNH! (http://latenighthoops.com/additional-insight-on-tom-crean-and-his-contract-with-indiana/#.VQNUC454p5I)
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 13, 2015, 04:23:46 PM
Additional commentary & explanation on Crean's deal with Indiana... from LNH! (http://latenighthoops.com/additional-insight-on-tom-crean-and-his-contract-with-indiana/#.VQNUC454p5I)
So you said he "lied" in your post and then in your article you said maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Which is it?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 09:42:10 AM
That's why I don't think he would do it, but he's crazy enough that who knows. Often times its simply the threat that people know you know where all the bodies are buried that is enough.
I can name many a high ranking executive in movie studio, HBOs, etc roles that are around because they have the map of the bodies. I have no doubt that exists in other industries, gov't positions, etc.
Its called tenure in the business world. Put in your time, get your dirt and have a high paying job for life.
Quote from: forgetful on March 13, 2015, 08:30:56 PM
Its called tenure in the business world. Put in your time, get your dirt and have a high paying job for life.
Nope. Only a few have that status, unlike Union employees where everyone gets it....everyone.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2015, 07:51:40 PM
So you said he "lied" in your post and then in your article you said maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Which is it?
My post had "lied" in quotes. The quotes were because others have said he lied. I don't know if he intentionally lied, made a series of mistakes, or made some mistakes and then intentionally misled... maybe something else?! I'd like to know which you think it is.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 14, 2015, 04:09:07 AM
My post had "lied" in quotes. The quotes were because others have said he lied. I don't know if he intentionally lied, made a series of mistakes, or made some mistakes and then intentionally misled... maybe something else?! I'd like to know which you think it is.
I have no idea, I need much more context than what was provided in the article...It was rather incomplete and appeared to be a back patting article (I know those kind, I've done them myself).
The contracts are stupid, as correctly pointed out. I know you justified them in your other columns...do you still think think so? You said they were smart. I contend they were stupid, and still do, for both UCLA and IU.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 14, 2015, 01:47:03 PM
I have no idea, I need much more context than what was provided in the article...It was rather incomplete and appeared to be a back patting article (I know those kind, I've done them myself).
The contracts are stupid, as correctly pointed out. I know you justified them in your other columns...do you still think think so? You said they were smart. I contend they were stupid, and still do, for both UCLA and IU.
UCLA's? Yes, smart by UCLA if they were comfortable and committed Alford being their guy for several years. (Which they should be - can't judge a coach one bit until 5 years have passed.)
Interesting days for I4 though.. they could be left out of the tourney, but they are also talented enough and good enough from deep that they could reach the second weekend. Fun time of year.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on March 12, 2015, 01:28:40 PM
Last night during the MU-SH game, I was texting one of my kids who is at IU. I asked him about the IU-Northwestern game coming up tonight. After he said he couldn't believe IU lost to them earlier, I said "I blame the tanned one." He replied, "Everyone here does. They all want him gone, but apparently they aren't getting rid of him." "IU has no big men in their next recruiting class." No different than when he was at MU.
I say Crean is gone before Brunt.
my nephew there has been telling me the same thing, except, BEFORE this season started. he's a big sports geek and doesn't even bother going to the games-went to h.s/played hoops with frankie k (gotta brag) he's gonna be at frankie's nba draft shin dig-first thing he wants to buy with a very probable $$ contract.....a golf membership at a club-just thought that was kinda cool