MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on February 21, 2015, 04:08:46 PM
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1. 6 isn't enough to beat Nova.
2. Every MU player today played like a Warrior. They played their guts out and were sucking wind at the end. My hat is tipped to each and every one of them.
3. Practicing free throws is way overrated.
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With the exception of the free throw shooting it's hard to see this as anything but a great game from the team today.
Juan's typical effort plays resulting in tips/put backs/blocks/etc may have been the difference in this one.
Does it seem like Duane trys to do to much on even fairly uncontested lay ins?
Johnson had a really solid game. He had a couple of miscues but if he can put it all together he has the tools to be the best of the 2013 class.
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Nice to see JJJ blossom under Wojo's coaching.
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http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400588464
Now we know which one of the twins is better.
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Duane is going to be great when he gets a bit stronger around the hoop. JJJ teased us with his potential today. Would like to see him build on that. Totally under control. If he knocks down a few jumpers that really opens up the game for him.
Team is sharper offensively without Juan. Defensively, not so much. Fischer, JJJ, Duane looked like future very good players today. Sandy showed flashes. Nothing to be upset about today.
Oh and Steve can be a good player when allowed to play in the high post.
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Nice to see JJJ blossom under Wojo's coaching.
I see what you did there...... ;D
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Time to back track for anyone who wanted to write off JJ. Really seemed to have a good understanding of what was going on, much different from a month ago where it seemed like he never played basketball before. Found his shot, perfect from the line, and was finding open teammates consistently. Only burned badly once or twice defensively. That's why it's rarely fruitful to rush to judgment of player or coach in the midst of a long season.
Protecting the ball makes all the difference. Only eight turnovers for a team of six players is a great effort. Add in seven or eight bad turnovers like we've seen too much recently and it turns into a blowout.
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Really proud of those guys today. They played their hearts out and kept the crowd interested against a great opponent. That said, I do have a few gripes...
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- Luke needs to stop putting it on the floor so often. Just begging for turnovers.
- How many times did Derrick pick up his dribble against the full-court press? Amazed he finished with only 1 turnover.
- Jajuan gambled far too often on steals. Took himself way out of position on defense at least 3 times.
- Sometimes making a 3 is the worst thing Steve can do. He falls in love with it, and the subsequent attempts weren't pretty.
- Wish Jajuan or Duane would have committed a silly foul in the last 29.6 seconds. Would have been nice to get double-Mache time.
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Really proud of those guys today. They played their hearts out and kept the crowd interested against a great opponent. That said, I do have a few gripes...
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- Luke needs to stop putting it on the floor so often. Just begging for turnovers.
- How many times did Derrick pick up his dribble against the full-court press? Amazed he finished with only 1 turnover.
- Jajuan gambled far too often on steals. Took himself way out of position on defense at least 3 times.
- Sometimes making a 3 is the worst thing Steve can do. He falls in love with it, and the subsequent attempts weren't pretty.
- Wish Jajuan or Duane would have committed a silly foul in the last 29.6 seconds. Would have been nice to get double-Mache time.
[/quote that seems like a lot of gripes for a guy who's "really proud of those guys today."
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Proud of the fella's.
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Yeah can't complain about the effort running 6 deep(4 underclassman) verus a very deep, talented, AND experienced #6 rated Villanova. Wright has a nice squad there. I'll be happy if we see continued growth out of the youngsters as we close this year out. I like the core of Duane, JJJ, Fish, and Chief going forward.....combined with next years class that is. I will say this - will be very curious if Woj will have as much success with the '16 class as '15.....ie., how much will this years performance influence kids/coaches opinion of the program. We can't lose the momentum from his first class. Time will tell.
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Luke needs to stop putting it on the floor so often. Just begging for turnovers.
Very proud of the fellows as well. If we were 9 deep, we probably would have beaten them.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who screams at my TV when Luke puts it on the floor! Davante had the same problem and it led to the same result. Luke has to get in position, take the ball, put a move on his guard and score. Period.
All year, I think we have run out of gas at the end because we were lacking one or two players of depth. Hang on, Help is on its way!
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Cheered Marquette on with 20 other alums in New Orleans. Love how hard we played until the buzzer. Roderick plays too slow and eats up too much clock when we are behind. Next year!
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Man defense still lacks. Can't give up 90 pts at home. Surprised we didn't play zone with a short roster.
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The players who will be back next year have shown great improvement since the beginning of the year. Wojo found out that the whole team (except perhaps for Derrick) could not play defense. Particularly Duane and JJJ looked like they were in an NBA All-Stargame with the matador "defense" and trying to poke the ball away as their man went in for an uncontested layup. The switch to a zone by Wojo was an absolute necessity because there were no defensive fundamentals. Unfortunately, particularly Steve Taylor, had no real feel on how to play a zone either, which lead to many open shots/layups.
Not to be in any way "giving up" on the current team, but the glaring deficiencies of Derrick's offensive game made it virtually impossible to accurately gauge this year's offense. There was too much of the new guys clapping for/demanding the ball as they stood in one place. Then the shot clock would wind down, and the ball would go back outside to the "open" man, Derrick, who threw up a prayer as the time clock expired. Derrick and Juan give everything they have, but at best they would be substitute/'glue" guys on a Big East winning team.
Steve, Duane, Luke, Sandy and JJJ certainly have more to learn, but now they seem to have better defensive fundamentals, which has to bode for a better future. As they get more floor time, it appears that better fundamentals, particularly by the underclassmen, will put them in position to let their innate skills come out in a more productive manner.
It seemed like Vander Blue, despite his athleticism, would never learn to finish at the rim. Vander certainly did start making the layups, rather than throwing the ball at the rim, in his junior year. I can only hope Duane, JJJ and Sandy can learn to consistently do so also. And when Luke gets more experience, and isn't playing four on five on offense, let's hope he too will finish strong, and not hesitate to throw back to the open man on the perimeter.
This pertains to this Villanova game in that Villanova is a very good team, and still the guys who were able to play showed improvement and fight. This whole season has been skewed by an overall lack of high level talent in the upper classes, and the defections and fundamental instability with the underclassmen who remained. Considering only six scholarship guys played today, they showed an upward trend. If anyone would have hit their foul shoots, they would have showed even better today. We would like this year's team to actually win a couple as they finish their schedule, but the overall improvement being shown is a good sign for next year and beyond.
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JJJ looked very good today. Under control on offense and maybe it's just me but his form looked better from distance. Anyway, but for a few poor defensive plays (losing his man on the back door, giving up open shots off of missed steals) he looked like a top 35 player. In the post game Wojo praised his attitude and work ethic at practice. Fingers crossed, I'm hopeful he's turned the corner.
Nova played Luke honestly today (rarely doubled) and he played well. Needs to get stronger but will be very good.
Duane was a little out of control today, but he's a good player who will get better. Not a point guard, though. He thinks shoot first and second, pass third. JJJ and Sandy are better passers. Love his toughness though at times he can be a bit of a punk.
The Derrick we got today IS better than Junior Cadougan. 10 points, 4-7, 1-2 from 3 (barely missed a 50 footer at the end of the half), 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, 8 assists to 1 TO. Solid D as always, can't shoot free throws (as always).
Sandy and Steve had moments good and bad. Neither shot well from 3 but each made some plays.
All in all a good effort. I'm excited for JJJ - if he's really turned the corner we may be pretty good next year.
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http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400588464
Now we know which one of the twins is better.
Matthew didn't get a fair chance! Wojo is throwing the season!
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Awful free throw shooting again and nova hot from 3 point land with Archie knocking 3 threes to start the second half was the difference.
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Guys played hard and played pretty well. Just undersized and undermanned.
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Time to back track for anyone who wanted to write off JJ. Really seemed to have a good understanding of what was going on, much different from a month ago where it seemed like he never played basketball before. Found his shot, perfect from the line, and was finding open teammates consistently. Only burned badly once or twice defensively. That's why it's rarely fruitful to rush to judgment of player or coach in the midst of a long season.
Protecting the ball makes all the difference. Only eight turnovers for a team of six players is a great effort. Add in seven or eight bad turnovers like we've seen too much recently and it turns into a blowout.
Agreed, only one out of control drive he somehow made that one. A couple of others he started to drive, didn't see anything and pulled it back out. A month ago he would have charged straight in regardless. His bad pass followed by classic go-for-the-steal-give-up-the-points stung. But, overall, playing much better since he was benched.
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Guys played hard and played pretty well. Just undersized and undermanned.
We're undermanned, but we're not as undersized as you think.
Villanova, #6 in the country, has one guy 6'11" in Ochefu with two other guys at 6'7" and one of them played only one minute today.
This is also not the shortest Marquette team in recent memory.
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Regarding Luke putting the ball on the floor, while I do agree there are 2 things that I think cause this. The first is he needs to be quicker with his decision making in general. Even when he doesn't put the ball on the floor he still catches, then gathers himself before going up to try to finish the play, and it lets defenders at the very least foul him, if not block or contest the shot cleanly. The second is the guards simply don't get the ball into the post quickly enough. Pretty much every game this season I have seen Luke and Steve come open in the post, only to see pretty much all of our guards (Derrick is very guilty of it, as are Duane, Matt, Sandy, and JJJ) wait a second too long and the bigs get the ball while the defender has reestablished solid defensive positioning. To be honest, in my opinion Steve is the best passer into the post on the team. Maybe it has something to do with him understanding when and where the big man needs to get the ball because he plays in the post as well, but in my opinion Steve's passing from the high post to the low post is better than any guard's passing from the perimeter to the low post.
As far as today's game went, outside of the missed free throws we played about as well as we could have. Missing our best player and our glue guy, leaving our team only 6 deep, against a very legitimate top 10 team, we played very well. Obviously some defensive lapses here and there but that's going to happen to every team in every game. All of the players played their role and gave a good effort today.
JJJ looked really good today. The hitch in his shot is still there, but to my eyes it seems to have been cut down a lot. When he's hitting the outside shot it opens up the drive and that's where he's at his best. If he can play a game like this (he's obviously not going to be that good night in and night out, but that style of game) for the rest of his time at Marquette he'll be a big time contributor to a Milwaukee Bucks style turnaround.
If we can find a transfer point guard of some sort (JUCO or 5th year grad transfer) that can just be solid immediately next season we are going to be a top 3 Big East team. If not we will be a second tier Big East team on the bubble. I think Hank, Duane, and Luke will be 12-15 ppg guys next season. If JJJ continues to improve like he has he will be another guy who will get double digits per game. Then you will have a glue/effort guy in Wally and a 3 point specialist in Sandy as well as a utility guy in Haanif and hopefully a guy finally playing his natural position in Steve who can be 7 and 5. I really like the makeup of that team. Well balanced. Just really, really need that point guard.
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Derrick played a nice game tonight. Was glad to see him take midrange shots, even if he missed 3 of 4 of them. Has to be a threat out there. Handled Nova's pressure well, although pulled his dribble up in bad place just before timeline in corner allowing for easy trap - but was tough enough to find a way to not turn it over.
Steve and Luke need to play together more from here on out - they play well together.
Missed some of Juan's energy out there, yet feel we were more dynamic offensively with JJJ/Cohen/Duane/Steve eating Juan's minutes.
Where would JJJ be without the incredible benching against Xavier?
As is the case 9 times out of 10 with talented players - you play them big minutes - and over the course of the 30+ minutes their talent comes to the fore. Numbers now in games over 25 minutes since benching:
4 games: 11.5ppg, 3.5 rebounds per game, 3 assists, 1.5 steals. In other words, virtually the same as before the benching. :o
JJJ is still a sophomore - there is a lot of room for growth and improvement in his game - he has all the tools you'd want in a guard at this level. He adds some strength over the offseason, tightens up his jumper - he'll be a load, particularly by senior year.
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We're undermanned, but we're not as undersized as you think.
Villanova, #6 in the country, has one guy 6'11" in Ochefu with two other guys at 6'7" and one of them played only one minute today.
This is also not the shortest Marquette team in recent memory.
Not much bulk/strength on the MU guys tho.
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Not much bulk/strength on the MU guys tho.
That's mostly due in part to maturity. Being 21-22 is much different than being 18-20. I'm not saying there are not exceptions but in general these kids fill out as they mature physically.
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"and a 3 point specialist in Sandy "? Are you serious Clark? Sandy can hit it at a decent clip but that shouldn't be the focus of his game. That said, we will be missing that kind of player next year with Carlino graduating. Likes of Duane, Sandy, and JJJ can make them but a 35% success rate isn't great. I suspect Woj will be looking for this kind of addition before next season.
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If we can build on today's performance in the remaining games we will be well positioned for next year. Think we should all be proud of our Warriors.
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This was nothing short of an heroic effort by our Marqueete players. They played e trembly well against a very very good team. They drew a ton of fouls - if we could have converted 75% we would have been in great shape.
JJJ - solid game all around. Duane a very good gone. Derrick had a great game - some points, dome great passes, rebounds, good d and was driving in them
Proud of these guys. 6 strong tough with two starters not playing but they were gutsy Warriors today. And the twin for a strong rebound causing a jump ball. Sweet
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"and a 3 point specialist in Sandy "? Are you serious Clark? Sandy can hit it at a decent clip but that shouldn't be the focus of his game. That said, we will be missing that kind of player next year with Carlino graduating. Likes of Duane, Sandy, and JJJ can make them but a 35% success rate isn't great. I suspect Woj will be looking for this kind of addition before next season.
Considering the average 3 point FG% the last ten years of NCAA mens basketball has been under 35% I'd say your expectations are set too high.
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I agree on the effort level -- stupendous. Could have, and possibly should have, folded like a lawn chair at several points in the second half.
In terms of heart, progress, and outlook for next season, WE ARE MARQUETTE.
In terms of basketball talent at some key positions this year, unfortunately, WE ARE... my cat.
(Thanks Jake's GF's nephew.)
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This was nothing short of an heroic effort by our Marqueete players. They played e trembly well against a very very good team. They drew a ton of fouls - if we could have converted 75% we would have been in great shape.
JJJ - solid game all around. Duane a very good gone. Derrick had a great game - some points, dome great passes, rebounds, good d and was driving in them
Proud of these guys. 6 strong tough with two starters not playing but they were gutsy Warriors today. And the twin for a strong rebound causing a jump ball. Sweet
HERE HERE!!!
Proud to be a MU alum after today's game!
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That's mostly due in part to maturity. Being 21-22 is much different than being 18-20. I'm not saying there are not exceptions but in general these kids fill out as they mature physically.
Indeed--did you see that shot of the bench when Sandy fouled out? Juan sat down right next to him and dwarfed him. It was amazing how much bigger Juan was than Sandy, and Juan was very thin as a Frosh as well.
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Given the circumstances our team performed well today. It is something for the team to build off of.
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As is the case 9 times out of 10 with talented players - you play them big minutes - and over the course of the 30+ minutes their talent comes to the fore. Numbers now in games over 25 minutes since benching:
4 games: 11.5ppg, 3.5 rebounds per game, 3 assists, 1.5 steals. In other words, virtually the same as before the benching. :o
Average RPI of opponents JjJ faced when getting 25+ minutes a game pre-benching: 155
Post benching: 59
KenPom pre benching: 157
Post benching: 56.75
Defensive efficiency pre benching (per KenPom): 172.43
Post benching: 84.5
But yeah, they are the same thing ::)
I have no idea if JjJ is playing better because of the benching or not, but he is playing better. In my opinion, the benching has something to do with it but that can never be proved. This whole tirade you've been on about JjJ, the benching, and the magical 25+ minutes is just wrong. It has been proven wrong many times. If you really try to insist that JjJ is not playing better now than he was pre-benching, you are burying your head in the sand on purpose.
Unless of course you have a logical explanation for why we shouldn't take quality of opponent into account.
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Everyone had an exceptional game today with the exception of Sandy. He looked overmatched today. But those types of games are to be expected from a freshman against top 10 team.
JjJ still struggles on the defensive time. He bites so hard on steals that he ends up standing on the half court line while his man gets an open shot or drive. There were also at least two times he was out of position on an inbounds play and it ended up with an open Nova three. That being said, his offensive was stellar today against a great defensive team. He is stating to show us what he can be.
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Everyone had an exceptional game today with the exception of Sandy. He looked overmatched today. But those types of games are to be expected from a freshman against top 10 team.
JjJ still struggles on the defensive time. He bites so hard on steals that he ends up standing on the half court line while his man gets an open shot or drive. There were also at least two times he was out of position on an inbounds play and it ended up with an open Nova three. That being said, his offensive was stellar today against a great defensive team. He is stating to show us what he can be.
TAMU-
I don't see a really good defender other than Juan Anderson on this team. I've gotten used to all of our players being out of position at times. I can remember at least one instance that everybody in our backcourt was beaten badly by a back door cut today and that happens every game.
I agree with you that I would prefer Johnson to be a better defender, but that statement would be true with everybody else as well.
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that seems like a lot of gripes for a guy who's "really proud of those guys today."
These aren't new gripes. Luke putting it on the floor, JJJ being halfway to the other basket before realizing he missed the steal while his man drains an open three, Steve loving the long ball, Derrick picking up his dribble, all just continuing gripes.
The team played very tough. Played with a ton of effort and passion. But had they played just a little smarter, we might not be looking for consolation victories.
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Derrick played a nice game tonight. Was glad to see him take midrange shots, even if he missed 3 of 4 of them. Has to be a threat out there. Handled Nova's pressure well, although pulled his dribble up in bad place just before timeline in corner allowing for easy trap - but was tough enough to find a way to not turn it over.
Steve and Luke need to play together more from here on out - they play well together.
Missed some of Juan's energy out there, yet feel we were more dynamic offensively with JJJ/Cohen/Duane/Steve eating Juan's minutes.
Where would JJJ be without the incredible benching against Xavier?
As is the case 9 times out of 10 with talented players - you play them big minutes - and over the course of the 30+ minutes their talent comes to the fore. Numbers now in games over 25 minutes since benching:
4 games: 11.5ppg, 3.5 rebounds per game, 3 assists, 1.5 steals. In other words, virtually the same as before the benching. :o
JJJ is still a sophomore - there is a lot of room for growth and improvement in his game - he has all the tools you'd want in a guard at this level. He adds some strength over the offseason, tightens up his jumper - he'll be a load, particularly by senior year.
I think your analysis of JJJ is spot on. I love the explosive first step he has. When he polishes the rest of his game, he is going to be a force every night. I think people will be surprised how well he plays next year when Luke and Henry are drawing all sorts of attention.
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I am very proud of our effort today.
Great performances by JJJ, Derrick and Duane...and solid contributions by Luke, Steve and Sandy. Loved to see JJJ play with such control and confidence, and our guard trio overall held its own against an excellent Nova backcourt.
There were some negatives, but they were outweighed by the positives against a legitimate top 10 team.
WE ARE MARQUETTE!
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Awful free throw shooting again and nova hot from 3 point land with Archie knocking 3 threes to start the second half was the difference.
False. Avg FT% performance would have added 2 points to MU's total. Non-issue.
Villanova shot better than us, rebounded better and got to the line more often. We held a small edge in turnovers, but Nova's TO rate was still only ~15%.
What lost the game was Nova shooting well and getting to the line a ton... but they are the best offensive in the BEast and one of the better offenses in America... who are good at what they did well today (shooting, getting to the line, limiting miscues).
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TAMU-
I don't see a really good defender other than Juan Anderson on this team. I've gotten used to all of our players being out of position at times. I can remember at least one instance that everybody in our backcourt was beaten badly by a back door cut today and that happens every game.
I agree with you that I would prefer Johnson to be a better defender, but that statement would be true with everybody else as well.
Juan, Derrick, and Luke are all plus defenders. I would argue Juan is an elite defender. Otherwise I agree. But I think JjJ is the worst offender. He is overly aggressive on steal attempts and it costs us almost every time. There is a way to be aggressive on steals and not leave your other teammates hanging.
That being said, I could live with JjJ's defense if this was the kind of offense we could expect from him most nights. Had a hell of an offensive game against a very good defensive team. Hope to see more of the same
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Derrick played a nice game tonight. Was glad to see him take midrange shots, even if he missed 3 of 4 of them. Has to be a threat out there. Handled Nova's pressure well, although pulled his dribble up in bad place just before timeline in corner allowing for easy trap - but was tough enough to find a way to not turn it over.
Missed 3 of 4 midrange shots? How? He made 4 of 6 shots not counting the 50 foot heave he took with 1 second left in the first half.
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Juan, Derrick, and Luke are all plus defenders. I would argue Juan is an elite defender. Otherwise I agree. But I think JjJ is the worst offender. He is overly aggressive on steal attempts and it costs us almost every time. There is a way to be aggressive on steals and not leave your other teammates hanging.
That being said, I could live with JjJ's defense if this was the kind of offense we could expect from him most nights. Had a hell of an offensive game against a very good defensive team. Hope to see more of the same
At this point I think Cohen is the worst defender. Both he and JJJ get out of position, yet Cohen doesn't really make any plays like JJJ does that result in easy transition points off steals.
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Average RPI of opponents JjJ faced when getting 25+ minutes a game pre-benching: 155
Post benching: 59
KenPom pre benching: 157
Post benching: 56.75
Defensive efficiency pre benching (per KenPom): 172.43
Post benching: 84.5
But yeah, they are the same thing ::)
I have no idea if JjJ is playing better because of the benching or not, but he is playing better. In my opinion, the benching has something to do with it but that can never be proved. This whole tirade you've been on about JjJ, the benching, and the magical 25+ minutes is just wrong. It has been proven wrong many times. If you really try to insist that JjJ is not playing better now than he was pre-benching, you are burying your head in the sand on purpose.
Unless of course you have a logical explanation for why we shouldn't take quality of opponent into account.
This. Plus the eye test, too. Sometimes athletes need pats on the back to get them going. Sometimes they need kicks in the behind. It is up to the coach to know when to do either and on which players different techniques will work. None of us ever can prove the benching did or didn't help JJJ in the long run, but we've covered this ad nauseum so I'll stop now.
Beyond all the JJJ banter ...
I was very pleased with the guys' effort today and I remain very bullish on the future of Marquette basketball.
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Average RPI of opponents JjJ faced when getting 25+ minutes a game pre-benching: 155
Post benching: 59
KenPom pre benching: 157
Post benching: 56.75
Defensive efficiency pre benching (per KenPom): 172.43
Post benching: 84.5
But yeah, they are the same thing ::)
I have no idea if JjJ is playing better because of the benching or not, but he is playing better. In my opinion, the benching has something to do with it but that can never be proved. This whole tirade you've been on about JjJ, the benching, and the magical 25+ minutes is just wrong. It has been proven wrong many times. If you really try to insist that JjJ is not playing better now than he was pre-benching, you are burying your head in the sand on purpose.
Unless of course you have a logical explanation for why we shouldn't take quality of opponent into account.
LOL. It's pointless. I told you and the 10 or so hardcore Derrick/Wojo slurpers JJJ is talented, and needed more minutes - because if you give JJJ time, generally he's going to get you 13ppg, 4reb, 4assists, and 2 steals.
Here's a question for you: When JJJ was JUST ABSOLUTELY AWFUL A WEEK AGO AGAINST CREIGHTON - IF THE BENCHING IS THE REASON WHY JJJ IS PLAYING SO MUCH BETTER NOW, WHY WAS HE AWFUL AGAINST CREIGHTON?
JJJ isn't playing "better" than the first 6 games he got 25+ minutes - he's essentially playing the same - scoring is down 2ppg, and rebounds 1 per game - perhaps that accounts for the slight increase in competition. And really, if you want to split hairs and make it all about Team Ranking - Why did JJJ have his best game of the year (arguably) against the Number 6 Team in the Country/Pomeroy, yet just 1 week ago had his worst game of the year against Number 115 Creighton?
When I made the original post, I said - It doesn't mean play JJJ 25+ and EVERY TIME he will give you 13/4/4/2 - he would still be capable of a poor game (Creighton) - yet on the whole - you usually are going to get production along those lines.
The only people who have been burying their head in the sand here largely are you and the other 10 or so guys who adamantly disagree with me - whether it was the Buzz/Larry Williams issue, Buzz's coaching/demeanor last year, Wojo's minute allocation this year.
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Missed 3 of 4 midrange shots? How? He made 4 of 6 shots not counting the 50 foot heave he took with 1 second left in the first half.
He was 4/7. Maybe the poster was watching his HS highlight reel.
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"and a 3 point specialist in Sandy "? Are you serious Clark? Sandy can hit it at a decent clip but that shouldn't be the focus of his game. That said, we will be missing that kind of player next year with Carlino graduating. Likes of Duane, Sandy, and JJJ can make them but a 35% success rate isn't great. I suspect Woj will be looking for this kind of addition before next season.
Yes, his role next season will be that of a 3 point shooter. His job will be to help spread the floor offensively. He certainly isn't a slasher or a defensive specialist. Next year he won't be one of the top 4 scorers, so he'll need to be a role player. His role will be that of a long distance shooter. Will he knock them down like Novak? Of course not. But we probably will never see that again at MU.
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Here's a question for you: When JJJ was JUST ABSOLUTELY AWFUL A WEEK AGO AGAINST CREIGHTON - IF THE BENCHING IS THE REASON WHY JJJ IS PLAYING SO MUCH BETTER NOW, WHY WAS HE AWFUL AGAINST CREIGHTON?
He's up and down. Just like he was at the start of the season. But as you pointed out, his averages are about the same as he was doing before....except the competition is much better now. You also want to throw out all of the games where he didn't play more than 25 minutes, which, big surprise, are some of his worst games.
JJJ isn't playing "better" than the first 6 games he got 25+ minutes - he's essentially playing the same - scoring is down 2ppg, and rebounds 1 per game - perhaps that accounts for the slight increase in competition. And really, if you want to split hairs and make it all about Team Ranking - Why did JJJ have his best game of the year (arguably) against the Number 6 Team in the Country/Pomeroy, yet just 1 week ago had his worst game of the year against Number 115 Creighton?
Slight increase in competition? Seriously? Again, you are glorifying JjJ for munching on cupcakes. Three of those 7 games (you keep saying its six but its seven) were against top 100 opponents, one of them barely. Most of those stats you love to glorify come from the likes of UT Martin, NJIT, Morgan State, and North Dakota. You really want to keep saying that performing against the likes of those is as impressive as four Big East teams?
Split hairs? Aren't you the one who threw out my Florida comparison because they were 40 slots higher in strength of schedule? Why did JjJ preform better? He had a better night. I'm not arguing that his play is consistent, I'm showing you how ridiculous it is to say that a player is playing the same when the production is the same but the competition has increased. This is the same fallacy as when you try to compare this season to Dukiet. Same record, wildly different level of competition. Its really quite a simple concept.
The only people who have been burying their head in the sand here largely are you and the other 10 or so guys who adamantly disagree with me - whether it was the Buzz/Larry Williams issue, Buzz's coaching/demeanor last year, Wojo's minute allocation this year.
It's not 10 or so people Ners. Its 99% of this board and 2 entire coaching staffs.
You are always going on about how player development is a coach's job. You have complained endlessly about how Wojo isn't getting enough out of the talent he has on the roster. Now JjJ is performing well against tough competition and you are trying to use it as proof against Wojo? Why not be happy that JjJ is playing better? Why is JjJ performing in spite of Wojo rather than because of Wojo?
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Simple TAMU, that would require the narrative to change, which would mean admitting he might have been mistaken. Easier to invert the goal posts than admit Wojo and the staff may be smarter than he is.
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These aren't new gripes. Luke putting it on the floor, JJJ being halfway to the other basket before realizing he missed the steal while his man drains an open three, Steve loving the long ball, Derrick picking up his dribble, all just continuing gripes.
The team played very tough. Played with a ton of effort and passion. But had they played just a little smarter, we might not be looking for consolation victories.
Exactly, these are not new gripes. Why bust their balls after they've just played their hearts out with only 6 players? Especially with no new insights? Just me.
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Exactly, these are not new gripes. Why bust their balls after they've just played their hearts out with only 6 players? Especially with no new insights? Just me.
Because it's a discussion board and just because we came up short both in terms of roster and scoreboard doesn't mean we can't talk about the whys. It wasn't just the roster that cost us the game. It was little mistakes that we continue to see.
I'm also not doing it to bust the players balls bit to invite further discussion. It's easy to applaud the effort, and I do, but that doesn't mean it's all seashells and balloons.
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Apparently in his post game interview on the radio, Wojo brought up JJJ and how he has been bringing it every day in practice and the results have been apparent on the floor.
To 99% of the people who follow this program, it is very obvious. JJJ was benched v. X for not bringing it in practice. He learned his lesson. He is practicing harder. The results are showing.
Ners with his contorted logic, and TW with his axe to grind, have been shown to be flat out wrong. Wojo has reached JJJ. JJJ has developed under his coaching. And JJJ seems to be the same guy he has always been - not chafing under Wojo's "buttoned down" or "corporate" style. I fully expect JJJ to stay and thrive here after this year.
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Exactly, these are not new gripes. Why bust their balls after they've just played their hearts out with only 6 players? Especially with no new insights? Just me.
Just because they played incredibly hard doesn't mean they played perfect. I view a lot of these "gripes" as issues of trying to do too much. To play too fast. I think with experience and a more balanced roster, you are going to see these dissipate into next year.
The good news is that these gripes aren't due to lack of effort. Wojo has these guys working very hard.
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Obviously, MU did not play mistake free basketball yesterday. We could easily nitpick them to death. The mistakes MU made yesterday were not new to this team. But for me, the fact that they competed with a potential final 4 team for 40 minutes with only 6 players trumps everything. How hard they played within those constraints gives me hope going forward. They did everything except free throw shooting well. MU's defense was decent, they were simply outmanned. MU lost to a much better team, but it doesn't mean they didn't play like Warriors.
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Apparently in his post game interview on the radio, Wojo brought up JJJ and how he has been bringing it every day in practice and the results have been apparent on the floor.
To 99% of the people who follow this program, it is very obvious. JJJ was benched v. X for not bringing it in practice. He learned his lesson. He is practicing harder. The results are showing.
Ners with his contorted logic, and TW with his axe to grind, have been shown to be flat out wrong. Wojo has reached JJJ. JJJ has developed under his coaching. And JJJ seems to be the same guy he has always been - not chafing under Wojo's "buttoned down" or "corporate" style. I fully expect JJJ to stay and thrive here after this year.
Ners and Texas Western are completely clueless when it comes to the psychology aspect of coaching and to be honest, it is pretty embarrassing for them that they just don't get it. To see TW continually posting what an awful person Wojo is when he clearly has no understanding about how complicated coaching can be is beyond frustrating. Most of us see it and understand how important it was to bench JJJ for the x game and how it is going to pay off, not only for the rest of this year, but for JJJ's entire. JJJ appears to be buying into what it takes to win, Deonte did not appear to be doing so. He left and nobody threw him under the bus, especially Wojo. Deonte will be a good college player because he has an impressive offensive skill set, but he was not right for our program. It took guts for Wojo to let him go, knowing it would hurt us this year, but building a winning program is not about one year. It is pretty easy to see how Wojo is going to build this program going forward, but when you have some sort of axe to grind or you are stubborn, you are not going to see that. Small minded people think short term and don't have the guts to make tough decisions that may not pay off for a year or two.
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Because it's a discussion board and just because we came up short both in terms of roster and scoreboard doesn't mean we can't talk about the whys. It wasn't just the roster that cost us the game. It was little mistakes that we continue to see.
I'm also not doing it to bust the players balls bit to invite further discussion. It's easy to applaud the effort, and I do, but that doesn't mean it's all seashells and balloons.
No one is saying it's all seashells and balloons, but your gripes are not new. As others have stated, the stayed with a top 6 team for 40 minutes with only 6 players. Thats the story, not their shortcomings many of which are probably the result of exhaustion.
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Was at the game. Crowd was good. (esp when Mache got the jump ball) I agree with everybody who said they were proud of the effort.
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No one is saying it's all seashells and balloons, but your gripes are not new. As others have stated, the stayed with a top 6 team for 40 minutes with only 6 players. Thats the story, not their shortcomings many of which are probably the result of exhaustion.
Do you understand what a message board is about? You can applaud the effort and be happy with the hard work, but also point out short comings. And no, I don't think some of the issues were a result of exhaustion. For instance, on two occasions in the first dozen or so minutes, MU should have had a steal. However the player tried to dribble the ball up to himself while looking down-court, and the Nova guy grabbed it. The appropriate play is to secure the ball first...and Wojo mentioned it during the timeout. GRAB THE BALL.
There were a number of little things like that. However, as I said above, the good news is that they were the result of trying to move too fast - trying to make a play. Better than than a mistake that was the result of laziness.
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Here's a question for you: When JJJ was JUST ABSOLUTELY AWFUL A WEEK AGO AGAINST CREIGHTON - IF THE BENCHING IS THE REASON WHY JJJ IS PLAYING SO MUCH BETTER NOW, WHY WAS HE AWFUL AGAINST CREIGHTON?
Ummm ... because he had a bad game?
Do I need to look up Michael Jordan's bad games and Wilt Chamberlain's bad games and LeBron James' bad games and show you that even the very best, most highly motivated athletes in basketball history sometimes have bad games?
Or were you such a great high school baller that you never had a bad game and therefore can't possibly understand this concept?
Oh, and only feeble-minded people who can't make a point with level-headed discussion need to shout.
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Watching on TV, there appeared to be exhaustion toward the end. Every time they showed a close up of an MU player in the last 4 minutes, they looked gassed.
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Ummm ... because he had a bad game?
Do I need to look up Michael Jordan's bad games and Wilt Chamberlain's bad games and LeBron James' bad games and show you that even the very best, most highly motivated athletes in basketball history sometimes have bad games?
Or were you such a great high school baller that you never had a bad game and therefore can't possibly understand this concept?
Oh, and only feeble-minded people who can't make a point with level-headed discussion need to shout.
To be fair, I don't think Ners "good games" were really all that "good."
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Watching on TV, there appeared to be exhaustion toward the end. Every time they showed a close up of an MU player in the last 4 minutes, they looked gassed.
Oh I agree. I just don't think some of the errors were a result of exhaustion.
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The last two games, the younger players have been getting the minutes, out of design and necessity. These have been some of MU's better offensively efficient BE games. This is the chance to see what these kids have, and I am liking the flashes.
Defensively, which is no surprise with kids getting more of the playing time, MU was getting beat physically. Yesterday's opponent free throw rate was double MU's defensive average, which is where the game was decided. MU actually outscored Nova from the field (2/3s combined), but was out rebounded and outmuscled by Nova (and other BE teams have in a very physical league).
That Nova run in the back quarter of the first half was the point where the game first got away from MU (from the 6 minute to 2 minute mark), but the team regrouped in the 2nd, despite Nova's hot start again to begin the 2nd half out of the locker room (first four minutes). Great teams like Nova win with their runs. MU was very good for 32 minutes.
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At this point I think Cohen is the worst defender. Both he and JJJ get out of position, yet Cohen doesn't really make any plays like JJJ does that result in easy transition points off steals.
Fox did one of their inside the huddles in the first half where Wojo was busting their chops for trying to get upcourt before securing the ball. That was right after a great play by Sandy where his guy dribbled past him, but he recovered, and because of his length and athleticism made a clean block from behind.
Cohen's length and athletic ability make for tantalizing defensive potential. And the above mentioned play is not the only occasion where he's shown that ability.
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Way, way, way, way too many defensive breakdowns yesterday. They are still a poor man defense team. And a team like 'Nova is going to kill you with any missteps defensively, which they did.
But agree completely with everyone else that their effort was fantastic yesterday, and impressed to with really a pretty solid overall offensive & shooting performance.
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Encouraged by STJ's play offensively in the low post - some nice post moves, had a nice drive and dish to Fisher for an easy two. But that dude has got to quit being so in love with jacking threes. Do your work from 17 feet on it STJ, and results will be good. Reason to feel encouraged about next year for him.
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Encouraged by STJ's play offensively in the low post - some nice post moves, had a nice drive and dish to Fisher for an easy two. But that dude has got to quit being so in love with jacking threes. Do your work from 17 feet on it STJ, and results will be good. Reason to feel encouraged about next year for him.
If he jacks a 3 late in the shot clock, fine, but too many times he throws them when the offense has not even set.Hhe has no business doing that. His game is from 12 feet in.
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Really will be rooting for 'Nova and the rest of the Big East in the tournament. Our conference needs someone to make a big run, that would buy so much instant credibility for the reconfigured league. I think 'Nova is up to it this year, well coached, experienced, deep. We'll see.
Talk this time of year is always about how many teams will make the field from a conference, but I don't think that matters nearly as much,be it 5 or 6, (Seton Hall is done unless they win it all @ MSG). The teams that do get in have to win. Hardly anyone remembers or cares after the tournament how many a conference puts in the field, but what kind of run is made for those that do make it. That's what everyone points to after it all shakes out.
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Apparently in his post game interview on the radio, Wojo brought up JJJ and how he has been bringing it every day in practice and the results have been apparent on the floor.
To 99% of the people who follow this program, it is very obvious. JJJ was benched v. X for not bringing it in practice. He learned his lesson. He is practicing harder. The results are showing.
Ners with his contorted logic, and TW with his axe to grind, have been shown to be flat out wrong. Wojo has reached JJJ. JJJ has developed under his coaching. And JJJ seems to be the same guy he has always been - not chafing under Wojo's "buttoned down" or "corporate" style. I fully expect JJJ to stay and thrive here after this year.
This is exactly the point. Specifically, it's exactly the point Ners, TW and a couple of others can't grasp. JjJ had a terrible week of practice according to WoJo. It doesn't mean he's playing better or worse than the magical 6 games that keep getting referenced. It means he had a terrible week of practice.
I'd love to know if JjJ has said anything publicly about the fact that he deserved the kick in the ass.
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Love our fight. However,one trend that is disturbing is our play in the second half of games. Whether we are up or down Wojo and or Derrick slow down the tempo of play. The result is that we lose any momentum that we had, and allow the other team to take the lead or run up the score. Sometimes I get the feeling that Derrick is helping the other team win.
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Everybody is well aware of Derrick's limitations. I will be the first to say that I wish we had other options but there are things that he brings to this team that they really need and no one else seems to be able to do. For example when MU was reeling from the run Nova put on in the first half at around the 5 minute mark our guys came down and appeared "beaten", the spacing wasn't good the hand offs were sloppy, it had the beginning of a blow out written all over it. It was like Derrick understood that he had to do something on his own to stop the bleeding. He drove the lane, made a tough shot with a foul. He missed the free throw (after all this is Derrick we are talking about) but it seemed to stabilize the team. We were able to go in at half a few minutes later down by 9 with some hope of making it a game.
Right now he seems to be the only guy who can provide that leadership. That is why the team plays better when he is out there even though it doesn't look like he contributes much in the box score.
Next year I hope we get that understanding of what the team needs from someone who can also score, hopefully Duane. But Duane doesn't have it right now. Nobody else does on MU.
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False. Avg FT% performance would have added 2 points to MU's total. Non-issue.
Villanova shot better than us, rebounded better and got to the line more often. We held a small edge in turnovers, but Nova's TO rate was still only ~15%.
What lost the game was Nova shooting well and getting to the line a ton... but they are the best offensive in the BEast and one of the better offenses in America... who are good at what they did well today (shooting, getting to the line, limiting miscues).
You can't dismiss that as a non-issue. The point is our team in general is not a good free throw shooting team. Sixty percent for the game sucks. Missing the front end of 1 and 1s suck. Especially for a team that struggles to score in general. I was not comparing our awful free throw shooting to our awful Avg FT% to where it adds 2 points. I was comparing it to teams that are good free throw shooting teams where an additional 4 or 5 points would have made the game interesting. FYI, as a team we shoot 67.0 percent, good for 243rd out of 345 teams. This team can't afford to give away points at the line especially if we allow 11-21 three point shooting.
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Love our fight. However,one trend that is disturbing is our play in the second half of games. Whether we are up or down Wojo and or Derrick slow down the tempo of play. The result is that we lose any momentum that we had, and allow the other team to take the lead or run up the score. Sometimes I get the feeling that Derrick is helping the other team win.
Derrick: 4-7 shooting, 1-4 from the line, 10 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 turnover, 40 minutes. Just stop.
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Derrick: 4-7 shooting, 1-4 from the line, 10 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 turnover, 40 minutes. Just stop.
Can you imagine how good Derrick would be if he would just try to actually run the offense? Probably average 15-20 assists per game!
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Most of those were 'basic' assists Tower.....
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Derrick: 4-7 shooting, 1-4 from the line, 10 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 turnover, 40 minutes. Just stop.
Derrick had more than one turnover. The official scorer was being very kind.
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So now the official scorer is part of the pro-Derrick conspiracy?
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So now the official scorer is part of the pro-Derrick conspiracy?
He reminds him of when he used to score Wojo's games.
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So now the official scorer is part of the pro-Derrick conspiracy?
No, but Derrick had at least 3 TOs, if not more. Nice game for him, but he simply had more than 1 TO.
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The team was only charged with 8 TO's. I remember Derrick throwing away the entry pass to Luke on the first possession, but that is all I remember for him. I remember travels, double dribbles and offensive fouls for some of the others, Nova stole the ball a bunch, but I only remember that first one for Derrick.
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Nice game for him but he deflated our momentum by slowing down play too much. When we are behind by 10 or more Derrick shows no urgency. Between him and the other team a minute is burned almost every change of hands. What happened to our transition game? We rarely push the ball up court anymore but play slow down allowing the opponents to defend us in half court.
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Nice game for him but he deflated our momentum by slowing down play too much. When we are behind by 10 or more Derrick shows no urgency. Between him and the other team a minute is burned almost every change of hands. What happened to our transition game? We rarely push the ball up court anymore but play slow down allowing the opponents to defend us in half court.
Yesterday, to me it looked like when they had enough energy, they pushed the ball. When they got tired, they didn't. Only played 6.
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Yesterday, to me it looked like when they had enough energy, they pushed the ball. When they got tired, they didn't. Only played 6.
Exactly right. The first half strategy of 'Nova was obvious. Aggressive fouls and full court pressure to wear MU out. It worked, we looked tired even before the end of the first half. It impacted the speed of our defensive rotations and led to us looking disjointed on offense by the end of the half.
That's why the game was over with about 10 minutes left to play. Yes, we repeatedly got back to 10 and even single digits, but we didn't have enough bodies to manufacture an actual run. The guys just didn't have the energy to string enough consecutive scores together to make it close.
But I suppose it's easier to blame the guy who scored 10 and added 8 assists ?-(
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Exactly right. The first half strategy of 'Nova was obvious. Aggressive fouls and full court pressure to wear MU out. It worked, we looked tired even before the end of the first half. It impacted the speed of our defensive rotations and led to us looking disjointed on offense by the end of the half.
That's why the game was over with about 10 minutes left to play. Yes, we repeatedly got back to 10 and even single digits, but we didn't have enough bodies to manufacture an actual run. The guys just didn't have the energy to string enough consecutive scores together to make it close.
But I suppose it's easier to blame the guy who scored 10 and added 8 assists ?-(
Well, they weren't tough assists and the scorer was bailing him out.
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Only played 6.
I can't believe Wojo is ruining the development of the twins by refusing to play them.
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I can't believe Wojo is ruining the development of the twins by refusing to play them.
I know, right? If they just got 25 minutes a game their production would double! Its too hard to get into the flow spending 39 minutes a game on the bench.
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Well, the good news is that this is the first game in almost 3 years where posters aren't bitching about the rotation.
JJJ looked good. He still looks a little out of control, but the ball seems to get to where he's aiming. His ceiling could be pretty high if he can add strength and weight. He seems to have a pretty good touch and he's creative in the lane. Add some strength to be able to absorb more contact, and he could be a pretty good slasher. His shot still looks atrocious, but whatever... I'll leave that to the coaching staff to figure out.
Duane had a bad night. It happens with younger players. They show flashes of what they COULD be, and then they usually come back to earth. Same for Luke. Same for JJJ.
Tough season, but I like how they are building.
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I like the aggressiveness JJJ has shown. He is obviously not afraid to put his head down and try to get to the hoop, he just needs to pick his spots.
Like on defense... he needs to temper his desire to steal that pass to the wing. Has he gotten to that ball once this year?
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Well, the good news is that this is the first game in almost 3 years where posters aren't bitching about the rotation.
JJJ looked good. He still looks a little out of control, but the ball seems to get to where he's aiming. His ceiling could be pretty high if he can add strength and weight. He seems to have a pretty good touch and he's creative in the lane. Add some strength to be able to absorb more contact, and he could be a pretty good slasher. His shot still looks atrocious, but whatever... I'll leave that to the coaching staff to figure out.
Duane had a bad night. It happens with younger players. They show flashes of what they COULD be, and then they usually come back to earth. Same for Luke. Same for JJJ.
Tough season, but I like how they are building.
I like that JJJ showed he has the ups to absorb the contact, hang and get a good, balanced shot off...add some strength and it will be a big part of his game.
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I like the aggressiveness JJJ has shown. He is obviously not afraid to put his head down and try to get to the hoop, he just needs to pick his spots.
Like on defense... he needs to temper his desire to steal that pass to the wing. Has he gotten to that ball once this year?
Agreed.
It's actually a bit "McNeal-esque".
Add some strength, a more consistent shot, and better decision making and he's a good player. Basically, he just has to mature. Like most sophs., he's shown flashes, but he'll need more time to develop consistency at this level.
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I like the aggressiveness JJJ has shown. He is obviously not afraid to put his head down and try to get to the hoop, he just needs to pick his spots.
Like on defense... he needs to temper his desire to steal that pass to the wing. Has he gotten to that ball once this year?
He has, but he misses far more often than he makes the steal. He had 1 steal Saturday and at least 3 bad misses that led to wide-open looks. Honestly, that's my biggest issue with him. Bigger than his three-point shooting (which has improved) or his somewhat selfish tendencies on offense (as long as he scores some, so be it). On defense, he can be okay when he stays in position. Unfortunately, 4-5 times per game he's out gambling, and he has worse luck than me with PowerBall.
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He has, but he misses far more often than he makes the steal. He had 1 steal Saturday and at least 3 bad misses that led to wide-open looks. Honestly, that's my biggest issue with him. Bigger than his three-point shooting (which has improved) or his somewhat selfish tendencies on offense (as long as he scores some, so be it). On defense, he can be okay when he stays in position. Unfortunately, 4-5 times per game he's out gambling, and he has worse luck than me with PowerBall.
Yep. This is one area where the box scores are deceiving - he has a good number of steals for the time he's played, but the wide open looks he concedes when he misses are a killer. JJJ has all the tools to become a solid defender, but he needs to add better discipline and decision making to his physical tools.
Very high ceiling if he can do that.
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Anybody figure out what Mache stats project out over 25 minutes?
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Anybody figure out what Mache stats project out over 25 minutes?
43 jump balls obviously.
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43 jump balls obviously.
But it gets better. Extended PT will actually mean that his stats get better, not worse. We could be looking at 50 or 55 jump balls per outing if Wojo doesn't play mind games with him.
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But it gets better. Extended PT will actually mean that his stats get better, not worse. We could be looking at 50 or 55 jump balls per outing if Wojo doesn't play mind games with him.
Personally, I'm concerned that one twin getting some time while the other didn't may cause a serious disruption to team chemistry. We may have a Seton Hall situation on our hands here soon.
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But it gets better. Extended PT will actually mean that his stats get better, not worse. We could be looking at 50 or 55 jump balls per outing if Wojo doesn't play mind games with him.
Too funny!
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Personally, I'm concerned that one twin getting some time while the other didn't may cause a serious disruption to team chemistry. We may have a Seton Hall situation on our hands here soon.
That's Carlino chucking all the shots, not the twins, ai'na?