1. This team misses Carlino.
2. Nice game, Duane.
3. Flashes from Steve and Sandy.
4. Nothing from Derrick or Luke.
5. 7 is just not enough.
6. The effort is off the charts. Players who are mad at the coach or feel disrespected or misused by the coach don't play that hard.
7. I hope JuJuan is OK.
Interior defense was simply terrible. Luke *might* be an average defender. STJ isn't. This team is sorely lacking in physicality. Can't see it next year either.
Rebounding.
8. Last place in the BEast. Shades of Dukiet. There is no excuse for being in last place with our talent.
9. Taylor had a nice game. Might as well give him more of Juan's minutes.
10. Duane played about 3-4 minutes at point. Looked OK. He can create shots. Derrick can't.
11. Our seniors were about 2-15.
12. Should go man more than zone.
13. Sandy had flashes but is not good defending.
14. Fischer and Steve need to learn to kick it out when double teamed. Very rarely do that.
15. Derrick is a good kid, a good defender but nobody guards him 15 feet out. Announcer mentioned that 3 times.
16. Had our ass kicked on the boards. 42-26. Luke needs to get stronger.
Still a ton of missed shots around the rim.
Still a ton of missed free throws.
When an opposing player gets hot, you have to defend him better. Kreklow should not be allowed to go off consistently. Blame has to go on Wojo. He tells the players they have to find Kreklow at the corner and then proceeds to call a 1-3-1 zone. DUMB!!!!
How many layups did we give up on the pick and roll in the second half?
How many offensive rebounds did we give up the few times we did defend well?
The lack of strength on this team is unbelievable. Todd Smith is hailed as a great strength and conditioning coach yet everyone on the team looks weak compared to other Big East teams.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 14, 2015, 02:21:24 PM
Interior defense was simply terrible. Luke *might* be an average defender. STJ isn't. This team is sorely lacking in physicality. Can't see it next year either.
+1,000,000
We let scrubs like Artino and whoever the other guy was shoot 70-80% from the field. D was absolutely BRUTAL today.
I don't like the term basketball IQ, but man, do we make a lot of mental mistakes.
- two (maybe three?) missed FT's by CU where we give up the O Rebound
- Kreklow is on fire and somehow he still gets loose for open threes time after time after time
- Multiple unforced TOs killing momentum
- Multiple missed FTs
I am sure there are other examples.
This kind of stuff is what really drives me nuts when watching these guys. They are in almost every game. Correct these things that are eminently correctable and we could have won a few more games.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2015, 02:26:33 PM
8. Last place in the BEast. Shades of Dukiet. There is no excuse for being in last place with our talent.
What talent? We have 7 players and 5 of them cannot shoot. No one can play D, incapable of man-to-man.
Quote from: tower912 on February 14, 2015, 02:16:34 PM
1. This team misses Carlino.
2. Nice game, Duane.
3. Flashes from Steve and Sandy.
4. Nothing from Derrick or Luke.
5. 7 is just not enough.
6. The effort is off the charts. Players who are mad at the coach or feel disrespected or misused by the coach don't play that hard.
7. I hope JuJuan is OK.
Was the effort off the charts? I think a lot of times this year we played with very good effort...today, not so much.
No answers defensively today. We play zone and they can threes all over the place or go high-low and get easy baskets near the rim. We play man and they kill us on the pick and roll.
Even the man defense could not stop offensive rebounds. I think a lot of that had to with Anderson being on the perimeter defending Kreklow (sp?). Without Anderson on the interior defending we don't have a good defensive rebounder in there.
I really hope Heldt and Ellenson can board. Because Fischer is a below average defensive rebounder for his size. No Juan next year is going to be an issue unless the freshmen can rebound.
Willie...no critique of JjJ?
Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2015, 02:26:33 PM
8. Last place in the BEast. Shades of Dukiet. There is no excuse for being in last place with our talent.
That is what I am afraid of. This team should not be 3-10 and in last place. Not the best of situations for Wojo to walk into but a lot of blame falls on him.
Tower wrote: "Nothing from Derrick or Luke."
11 points and 5 boards is about all you could expect from a 1st year Sophomore. If Luke finishes the season with those averages, I'd take it. Add a bucket and a board in each of his next 2 years, and he hears his name get called in the last week of June.
Quote from: NBBomber on February 14, 2015, 02:38:57 PM
Tower wrote: "Nothing from Derrick or Luke."
11 points and 5 boards is about all you could expect from a 1st year Sophomore. If Luke finishes the season with those averages, I'd take it. Add a bucket and a board in each of his next 2 years, and he hears his name get called in the last week of June.
He will clearly get better, but his defense allowed more points and rebounds than he scored.
Quote from: Jables1604 on February 14, 2015, 02:36:51 PM
Willie...no critique of JjJ?
Sure--he played poorly. As did Derrick and Juan. Sandy played poor defense. Fischer is a good shot blocker but needs to get stronger and has a bit to learn about the post. Duane was the only guy to create his shot. And the defensive guru is not getting that instilled in some of his players.
The team hustled, but did not play smart. 11-14 with our talent is poor!!!
I was just curious. You mentioned every player by name except JjJ.
Quote from: Jables1604 on February 14, 2015, 02:46:16 PM
I was just curious. You mentioned every player by name except JjJ.
JJJ was 1 for 7, 3 points, 3 turnovers, 3 assists. Not a good day for the young fella.......
Quote from: mufanatic on February 14, 2015, 02:37:22 PM
That is what I am afraid of. This team should not be 3-10 and in last place. Not the best of situations for Wojo to walk into but a lot of blame falls on him.
What talent do you think we have? We have 7 guys. That in and of itself is not going to get it done.
As was the case with most Buzz recruits, these guys all have HUGE holes in their games. They either can't shoot, can't defend, can't rebound...are weak inside...you name it our highly ranked HS recruits can't do it. Duane is the one bright spot -- he is a legit player. Luke I think will be once he gets stronger. Jajuan I am not sure about but I think he can be as well. Maybe Sandy. That's four guys...one of which has actually played college ball before this year. THAT is our Talent. SMH.
What were the HS rankings of the two big guys on Creighton that dominated us today?
Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2015, 02:26:33 PM
8. Last place in the BEast. Shades of Dukiet. There is no excuse for being in last place with our talent.
9. Taylor had a nice game. Might as well give him more of Juan's minutes.
10. Duane played about 3-4 minutes at point. Looked OK. He can create shots. Derrick can't.
11. Our seniors were about 2-15.
12. Should go man more than zone.
13. Sandy had flashes but is not good defending.
14. Fischer and Steve need to learn to kick it out when double teamed. Very rarely do that.
15. Derrick is a good kid, a good defender but nobody guards him 15 feet out. Announcer mentioned that 3 times.
16. Had our ass kicked on the boards. 42-26. Luke needs to get stronger.
Agree with every single point other than 8. Not much talent.
For the second time this year, MU ourscored a conference opponent in the 2nd half.
Monster 2nd half from Duane as he stopped deferring and started taking over.
MU outscored CU 23-7 on points off turnovers.
While MU needs more muscle, Sandy led the teams in rebounds with six. He is scrappy but he could be really good when he adds strength.
MU outscored the Jays from both lines...three point and free throw. But, gets demolished in the paint. Only time MU looked good in the paint was when Steve and Luke were in the game together, but Steve only gets 18 minutes.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 14, 2015, 02:50:19 PM
What talent do you think we have? We have 7 guys. That in and of itself is not going to get it done.
As was the case with most Buzz recruits, these guys all have HUGE holes in their games. They either can't shoot, can't defend, can't rebound...are weak inside...you name it our highly ranked HS recruits can't do it. Duane is the one bright spot -- he is a legit player. Luke I think will be once he gets stronger. Jajuan I am not sure about but I think he can be as well. Maybe Sandy. That's four guys...one of which has actually played college ball before this year. THAT is our Talent. SMH.
What were the HS rankings of the two big guys on Creighton that dominated us today?
I hate the excuse of us only having 7/8 guys as a reason why we lose. A lot of teams only play 7/8 players. Dayton is in the exact same boat as us and they are rolling. St. Johns typically plays 7/8 and are better than us. The players on this roster have talent. Most were top 100. It is up to Wojo to put together a game plan to get them to mesh. This team was playing better earlier in the year than they are now.
Annoying to lose, but not nearly as bad as we have been the past few weeks. The offense looked better overall and it's really nice to see Duane play with confidence. After that rough start I thought they did a good job of hanging around and had a few shots to close the gap, just couldn't quite get there.
The effort was definitely there, just too many holes in the roster and not enough talent to cover them up enough to win on the road.
8. If you can't box out on a frickin Free throw, you are in trouble. That was poor.
Quote from: mufanatic on February 14, 2015, 03:01:02 PM
I hate the excuse of us only having 7/8 guys as a reason why we lose. A lot of teams only play 7/8 players.
There is a big difference between "having" 7/8 players and "playing" 7/8 players. Those teams that play 7/8 typically have 12/13 players to draw from. More competition in practice, more depth. When we have an injury (Carlino) we're down to 7 - other teams have the depth to cover it. When Taylor and JjJ got banged up in the game today, we have nobody behind then. Other teams choose their best 7/8 players - we don't have that luxury. Big difference.
Props to the Creighton crowd. That's legit for a bad team.
Quote from: ChuckyChip on February 14, 2015, 03:33:55 PM
There is a big difference between "having" 7/8 players and "playing" 7/8 players. Those teams that play 7/8 typically have 12/13 players to draw from. More competition in practice, more depth. When we have an injury (Carlino) we're down to 7 - other teams have the depth to cover it. When Taylor and JjJ got banged up in the game today, we have nobody behind then. Other teams choose their best 7/8 players - we don't have that luxury. Big difference.
I could go along with this, yet Wojo had 10 to choose from. How he chose to dole out minutes led to the roster being down to 8 guys. And in my view and most reasonable posters view - one of those two guys who transferred - Burton was arguably the teams 2nd most proven player going into the season. Wojo could have filled the open scholarship last summer/fall if he wanted - though I'm sure never would he have anticipated having 3 additional scholarships to fill with Burton, Dawson and NN not being in the program.
Putting all of this season's woes on Buzz is a cop out - and nothing more than being kind to our new head coach.
Quote from: NersEllenson on February 14, 2015, 03:43:34 PM
Putting all of this season's woes on Buzz is a cop out - and nothing more than being kind to our new head coach.
It's called being a realist Ners.
Quote from: mufanatic on February 14, 2015, 03:01:02 PM
I hate the excuse of us only having 7/8 guys as a reason why we lose. A lot of teams only play 7/8 players. Dayton is in the exact same boat as us and they are rolling. St. Johns typically plays 7/8 and are better than us. The players on this roster have talent. Most were top 100. It is up to Wojo to put together a game plan to get them to mesh. This team was playing better earlier in the year than they are now.
Everyone else's set of 7-8 players is better than our set of 7 players. There's the difference
1) JJJ sucks again - hit a shot early and was awful after that, including two second half turnovers when we had some momentum.
2) Horrid call against Derrick with a minute to go. The refs were listening to much to the Creighton fans whining at that moment.
3) Duane, nice game, good shooter when his feet are set and he's squared up, but if he's on the move and trying to fire it, he struggles with his shot.
4) Really poor rebounding. There's no excuse for that. We might well win that game if we just rebound competently in the second half.
5) That stretch STJ had in the second half is what I really thought we'd have seen a lot more this year. Hopefully he can build on that and finish the season strong.
6) Really hope Carlino gets back soon, a week from today would be nice.
Back when Deonte and Dawson transferred a number of Scoopers said that the team was now one major injury away from a disaster. Well boys we had that major injury and now we are having that disaster. We didn't just lose another player, we lost the team's leading scorer. Really no point in analyzing this game or trying to draw anything from it. Maybe we get Carlino back and we give St John or DePaul a run at home. Other than that its wait till next year.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 14, 2015, 04:07:00 PM
Really no point in analyzing this game or trying to draw anything from it.
What do you mean, it's obvious Wojo is the fook up of all time, what's the matter with you?
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 14, 2015, 02:33:27 PM
I don't like the term basketball IQ, but man, do we make a lot of mental mistakes.
-
- Kreklow is on fire and somehow he still gets loose for open threes time after time after time
- Multiple unforced TOs killing momentum
To your points -
1) Kreklow's first half three point barrage was solely on the players. Fox did one of their inside the huddles in the first half where Wojo specifically told the guys in the huddle that he had hit two from the corner. So the very next possession, what does Kreklow do? Of course, hits another three from the right corner because whoever was on the that side had a mental lapse.
2) Yes, JJJ was the one throwing the ball awy on two occassions in the second half when we were starting to get some momentum going.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 04:23:40 PM
To your points -
1) Kreklow's first half three point barrage was solely on the players. Fox did one of their inside the huddles in the first half where Wojo specifically told the guys in the huddle that he had hit two from the corner. So the very next possession, what does Kreklow do? Of course, hits another three from the right corner because whoever was on the that side had a mental lapse.
2) Yes, JJJ was the one throwing the ball awy on two occassions in the second half when we were starting to get some momentum going.
What was most atrocious was Wojo imploring them to close out on Kreklow shooting 3's in the huddle in that timeout, and coming out of that timeout, what D are we in?? 1-3-1...or the most susceptible D you cam play to corner 3 point shots. Not to mention it was an extended 1-3-1 where the bottom man, Derrick was roughly 8 feet off the baseline.
And what happened out of that timeout? Kreklow hits a 3 from the corner. Part of being a good coach is putting your players in a position to be successful. Wojo had the proper diagnosis as to our problems (Kreklow hitting 3's), but then put is in the worst defense to defend corner 3's.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 04:23:40 PM
To your points -
1) Kreklow's first half three point barrage was solely on the players. Fox did one of their inside the huddles in the first half where Wojo specifically told the guys in the huddle that he had hit two from the corner. So the very next possession, what does Kreklow do? Of course, hits another three from the right corner because whoever was on the that side had a mental lapse.
2) Yes, JJJ was the one throwing the ball awy on two occassions in the second half when we were starting to get some momentum going.
agree completely. The players are responsible.
Quote from: NersEllenson on February 14, 2015, 04:27:52 PM
What was most atrocious was Wojo imploring them to close out on Kreklow shooting 3's in the huddle in that timeout, and coming out of that timeout, what D are we in?? 1-3-1...or the most susceptible D you cam play to corner 3 point shots. Not to mention it was an extended 1-3-1 where the bottom man, Derrick was roughly 8 feet off the baseline.
And what happened out of that timeout? Kreklow hits a 3 from the corner. Part of being a good coach is putting your players in a position to be successful. Wojo had the proper diagnosis as to our problems (Kreklow hitting 3's), but then put is in the worst defense to defend corner 3's.
Did he instruct the guys out there to extend the 1-3-1? I have a hard time believing he did, and you don't know that he did either, there would have been absolutely no reason to. Creighton spread the floor, and our guys came out way too high on that play.
It shouldn't be too hard for the guys to pay attention most to opposing player with the hot hand. They clearly didn't do that on that play after just been told.
Look, you guys can continue to put a spin job on this season all you want but here's the reality.
1. Wojo has been outcoached virtually every game in Big East play this season.
2. Fischer, our mid year savior and 'impact' player according to many posters here, has been outplayed in every Big East game this season.
3. JJJ, Duane and Cohen are all very inexperienced.
4. Our best returning player transferred at the semester.
You guys can all make yourselves feel better with the 'help is on the way' and 'the future is bright' cliches all you want, but I'd say that MUBB is much closer to becoming DePaul than we are Villanova.
What a violent fall from grace we're witnessing.
Quote from: NersEllenson on February 14, 2015, 03:43:34 PM
I could go along with this, yet Wojo had 10 to choose from. How he chose to dole out minutes led to the roster being down to 8 guys. And in my view and most reasonable posters view - one of those two guys who transferred - Burton was arguably the teams 2nd most proven player going into the season. Wojo could have filled the open scholarship last summer/fall if he wanted - though I'm sure never would he have anticipated having 3 additional scholarships to fill with Burton, Dawson and NN not being in the program.
Putting all of this season's woes on Buzz is a cop out - and nothing more than being kind to our new head coach.
Not sure what others are saying on that topic, but all of this season's woes are not on Buzz.
Rookie head coach, not his players nor his style of play, tough to adjust. Goes with the territory that partial blame goes there.
I do find it interesting, however, that the pieces who have left \ decommitted or largely have continued to underperform are from the previous GM....that includes your favorite whipping boy who happens to play the MOST important position for a college basketball team.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 04:52:25 PM
Look, you guys can continue to put a spin job on this season all you want but here's the reality.
1. Wojo has been outcoached virtually every game in Big East play this season.
2. Fischer, our mid year savior and 'impact' player according to many posters here, has been outplayed in every Big East game this season.
3. JJJ, Duane and Cohen are all very inexperienced.
4. Our best returning player transferred at the semester.
You guys can all make yourselves feel better with the 'help is on the way' and 'the future is bright' cliches all you want, but I'd say that MUBB is much closer to becoming DePaul than we are Villanova.
What a violent fall from grace we're witnessing.
So you would do what exactly to fix the situation?
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 04:52:25 PM
Look, you guys can continue to put a spin job on this season all you want but here's the reality.
1. Wojo has been outcoached virtually every game in Big East play this season.
2. Fischer, our mid year savior and 'impact' player according to many posters here, has been outplayed in every Big East game this season.
3. JJJ, Duane and Cohen are all very inexperienced.
4. Our best returning player transferred at the semester.
You guys can all make yourselves feel better with the 'help is on the way' and 'the future is bright' cliches all you want, but I'd say that MUBB is much closer to becoming DePaul than we are Villanova.
What a violent fall from grace we're witnessing.
Or maybe its not so extreme. Luke is 10 games or so into his career, point number 3 is accurate and Wojo is learning but generally getting the team to continue to play hard, compete and the like. You want to jump off a building -- be a SHU fan. I will let this play out a little.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 14, 2015, 04:57:22 PM
Or maybe its not so extreme. Luke is 10 games or so into his career, point number 3 is accurate and Wojo is learning but generally getting the team to continue to play hard, compete and the like. You want to jump off a building -- be a SHU fan. I will let this play out a little.
Hilarious how Luke is just ripped by matty, but he's got a quick excuse of "inexperience" for JJJ.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 04:52:25 PM
2. Fischer, our mid year savior and 'impact' player according to many posters here, has been outplayed in every Big East game this season.
I warned many posters here about this, but they immediately started throwing out the BS stuff about IU and their coach. Fischer will be a good player, maybe really good by his Senior year, but he was never going to be a savior this year. He's one of those classic bigs that is a worker, has some talent, but mainly a worker. He'll get better each year and he would have wherever he played hoops. Next year, with HE in the fold, things will open up for him a bunch more.
I just hope his shoulder isn't something that could become a big problem down the road.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 04:56:13 PM
So you would do what exactly to fix the situation?
Being a successful NCAA basketball program like Marquette has been there is no need to reach for an assistant coach with no head coaching experience hoping he pans out because he interviewed well. Better alternatives were out there.
Hey, at least now under Wojo we'll be losing the 'right' way.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:03:07 PM
Being a successful NCAA basketball program like Marquette has been there is no need to reach for an assistant coach with no head coaching experience hoping he pans out because he interviewed well. Better alternatives were out there.
Hey, at least now under Wojo we'll be losing the 'right' way.
You mean like our last three hires? Who did you want -- Shaka? yea me too...he didnt come. Beyond that you are left with the re-treads and also-rans. Or maybe we should go the HC route like Deane -- that was cool.
Don't like Wojo hire -- fine -- but its going to play out for a while...so might as well give him a chance with his own players, program, etc.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:03:07 PM
Being a successful NCAA basketball program like Marquette has been there is no need to reach for an assistant coach with no head coaching experience hoping he pans out because he interviewed well. Better alternatives were out there.
Hey, at least now under Wojo we'll be losing the 'right' way.
You didn't answer my question, so I'll help you out. Ok, you'd fire Wojo apparently. And hire what coach who can work the miracles you expect? And who would you have hired last spring?
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 04:59:24 PM
Hilarious how Luke is just ripped by matty, but he's got a quick excuse of "inexperience" for JJJ.
They've both been mostly atrocious, yet one player (Fischer) is continually praised for his ineptitude while another (JJJ) is torn to shreds over it.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:06:49 PM
They've both been mostly atrocious, yet one player (Fischer) is continually praised for his ineptitude while another (JJJ) is torn to shreds over it.
But you ripped Fischer, but excused JJJ for inexperience, when it's FIscher who has played way less at this level than JJJ. That was my point that you skated past in your above response.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 05:06:14 PM
You didn't answer my question, so I'll help you out. Ok, you'd fire Wojo apparently. And hire what coach who can work the miracles you expect? And who would you have hired last spring?
Wojo was a huge reach. Martin, Manning, and Howland to name three who were available and more qualified. I could name another dozen or so if I actually took some time.
Me not thinking Wojo was the best hire doesn't mean I'd fire him at this point. That's extremely illogical on your behalf to suggest that. He's already here and doing so would just create more rebuilding at this point. No reason to follow up a bad decision with another.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 05:09:45 PM
But you ripped Fischer, but excused JJJ for inexperience, when it's FIscher who has played way less at this level than JJJ. That was my point that you skated past in your above response.
You're reading comprehension must be severely lacking if you think I've given JJJ a pass.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:14:16 PM
You're reading comprehension must be severely lacking if you think I've given JJJ a pass.
Really? So what point were you making in your earlier post?
Don't rip me after you've been busy posting like a raving idiot and I've called you on it.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:11:43 PM
Wojo was a huge reach. Martin, Manning, and Howland to name three who were available and more qualified. I could name another dozen or so if I actually took some time.
Me not thinking Wojo was the best hire doesn't mean I'd fire him at this point. That's extremely illogical on your behalf to suggest that. He's already here and doing so would just create more rebuilding at this point. No reason to follow up a bad decision with another.
I'm being "illogical"?!? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
You call his hiring a bad decision and talk about all the other giants of the coaching profession we could have had, and your remarks are not to be interpreted for stating the case that you think Wojo should go? So the only reason you keep him is to not start rebuilding again. What a vote of confidence that is.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 05:24:55 PM
I'm being "illogical"?!? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
You call his hiring a bad decision and talk about all the other giants of the coaching profession we could have had, and your remarks are not to be interpreted for stating the case that you think Wojo should go? So the only reason you keep him is to not start rebuilding again. What a vote of confidence that is.
I think the guy is in way over his head and I didn't like the hire when it was announced, but he did get hired. Firing him now would make the situation worse.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2015, 05:20:50 PM
Really? So what point were you making in your earlier post?
Don't rip me after you've been busy posting like a raving idiot and I've called you on it.
Hutch, was JJJ ever talked up by multiple posters on this forum (with the exception of Ners and TW) about being an immediate impact player this season like Fischer was?
Why is Fischer's pathetic play in conference not a topic on this forum? Quite frankly he's far more disappointing to watch than either Derrick or JJJ, and those are the two most maligned players on this board.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:38:01 PM
Hutch, was JJJ ever talked up by multiple posters on this forum (with the exception of Ners and TW) about being an immediate impact player this season like Fischer was?
Why is Fischer's pathetic play in conference not a topic on this forum? Quite frankly he's far more disappointing to watch than either Derrick or JJJ, and those are the two most maligned players on this board.
Fair or not I think Fischer gets a bit of a pass because he's so alone down there. Juan is a rotation player being asked to do more than he should and Steve never seemed to fully recover and simply hasn't been very good. With Luke, there are literally no other options. Posters can spin that Derrick's minutes could be cut to give Duane or JJJ more time, or that JJJ is awful and Juan and Sandy should get all his minutes, but you simply can't argue in favor of anyone over Luke because no one else is capable of playing the position.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2015, 04:53:29 PM
Not sure what others are saying on that topic, but all of this season's woes are not on Buzz.
Rookie head coach, not his players nor his style of play, tough to adjust. Goes with the territory that partial blame goes there.
I do find it interesting, however, that the pieces who have left \ decommitted or largely have continued to underperform are from the previous GM....that includes your favorite whipping boy who happens to play the MOST important position for a college basketball team.
Disagree.
Most of this year's problems are on the phony cowboy. His players and he left the program in bad shape. Do agree that Wojo right now is not getting the job done, but he was left with what he has, and lost some. My biggest problem is that as a team, we are not improving. Duane has been up and down, Fischer the same, as well as JJJ. Carlino has helped, but Wojo's crunch time strategy is for Carlino to try to do it all, even when double and triple teamed. Another rookie coach who has to learn on the job.
As I have said previously, we will know quite a bit more about Wojo by the end of next year.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:38:01 PM
Hutch, was JJJ ever talked up by multiple posters on this forum (with the exception of Ners and TW) about being an immediate impact player this season like Fischer was?
Why is Fischer's pathetic play in conference not a topic on this forum? Quite frankly he's far more disappointing to watch than either Derrick or JJJ, and those are the two most maligned players on this board.
Please, literally almost everyone but me was talking up JJJ prior to this season, how he never got a fair shot under Buzz, etc. It's just recently that many have finally accepted that he stinks overall because it's painfully to obvious to ignore and pretend otherewise anymore.
Again, besides expecting Wojo to work miracles, you expect the same of Fischer. Of course he's not a finished product yet, but more disappointing than Derrick and JJJ???? He's the lone legit big man on the team, and on the perimeter, the only guy who opposing teams have to consistently account for is Carlino. That's not a recipe for opening up the post for Fischer to have success. He's had foul trouble many conference games as well, and some of that is due to him being our lone big.
But he's had a lot of good moments and reasons to feel encouraged about him.
What sort of numbers did you want/expect out of Luke exactly that would make you happy?
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:03:07 PM
Being a successful NCAA basketball program like Marquette has been there is no need to reach for an assistant coach with no head coaching experience hoping he pans out because he interviewed well. Better alternatives were out there.
Hey, at least now under Wojo we'll be losing the 'right' way.
That has been my beef for a long time, but it is what is in how we hire.
That being said, it is surprising to me that you are making some assumptions this early. Way way too early.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2015, 05:50:19 PM
Disagree. Most of this year's problems are on the phony cowboy. His players and he left the program in bad shape. Do agree that Wojo right now is not getting the job done, but he was left with what he has, and lost some. My biggest problem is that as a team, we are not improving. Duane has been up and down, Fischer the same, as well as JJJ. Carlino has helped, but Wojo's crunch time strategy is for Carlino to try to do it all, even when double and triple teamed. Another rookie coach who has to learn on the job.
As I have said previously, we will know quite a bit more about Wojo by the end of next year.
I'm not sure you and I are saying much that is different. I am ascribing much to Burt, but not all.
Marquette could have had Martin or Howland. While Martin gave a massively underwhelming interview, Wojo knocked it out of the park. Would Howland have been a better call? Maybe, but considering how things went at UCLA and all the dirty laundry that was aired after he left, I understand why Marquette stayed away.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2015, 06:02:17 PM
I'm not sure you and I are saying much that is different. I am ascribing much to Burt, but not all.
Probably. Likely we just differ on the degree of responsibility for the problems lie. I say El Buzzo.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 14, 2015, 04:07:00 PM
Back when Deonte and Dawson transferred a number of Scoopers said that the team was now one major injury away from a disaster. Well boys we had that major injury and now we are having that disaster. We didn't just lose another player, we lost the team's leading scorer.
That would have been me.
I like our coachrs and players. I hate losing. The Big East is tough. I like our future. The questions I have after today's game are: where is our rebounding? Where is our defense? And why don't we have the ball in the hands of our shooters instead if Darryl ehen the clock winds down?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 14, 2015, 06:32:11 PM
I like our coachrs and players. I hate losing. The Big East is tough. I like our future. The questions I have after today's game are: where is our rebounding? Where is our defense? And why don't we have the ball in the hands of our shooters instead if Darryl ehen the clock winds down?
I agree. Darryl ehen has probably been the biggest disappointment so far this year. And some people think De Wilson's offense is weak.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 14, 2015, 06:04:48 PM
Marquette could have had Martin or Howland. While Martin gave a massively underwhelming interview, Wojo knocked it out of the park. Would Howland have been a better call? Maybe, but considering how things went at UCLA and all the dirty laundry that was aired after he left, I understand why Marquette stayed away.
Very interesting article on Ben this past week in the LA Times. Laundry aside, the guy was super successful. It is not like we did not have some "laundry" under the prior coach. That laundry stay buried in the hamper.
Bottom line, I am sick of the "we should be better with the talent we have" argument. Outside of Duane Wilson and Luke, there is not much other talent. Some Marquette fans are suckers for "rankings". What we have seen on the floor is the "talent" we have. Some will get better, but other than the two I mentioned, none are going to make major contributions next season. And Yes, next season we will again depend upon all out high rated players to bail us out. Problem is, they are all Freshmen and we have seen the last several years how that has worked out. Buckle up MU fans, next year will be more of the same based on what is coming back.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400588455
Box score.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 14, 2015, 06:04:48 PM
Marquette could have had Martin or Howland. While Martin gave a massively underwhelming interview, Wojo knocked it out of the park. Would Howland have been a better call? Maybe, but considering how things went at UCLA and all the dirty laundry that was aired after he left, I understand why Marquette stayed away.
I don't see the stampede to Howland by anyone else. If he is such a savior you would have thought someone would have snapped him up. Instead we hired an assistant with a great pedigree. That has worked pretty well in the past for us. Everyone needs to chill the f)(k out.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on February 14, 2015, 05:03:07 PM
Being a successful NCAA basketball program like Marquette has been there is no need to reach for an assistant coach with no head coaching experience hoping he pans out because he interviewed well. Better alternatives were out there.
Hey, at least now under Wojo we'll be losing the 'right' way.
Yeah I mean its not as though Marquette has had any success previously hiring assistant coaches with no previous head coaching experience...
I think people should calm a bit down about Wojo. Rookie head coaches aren't perfect. They have to grow as well.
Quote from: connie on February 14, 2015, 08:03:42 PM
I don't see the stampede to Howland by anyone else. If he is such a savior you would have thought someone would have snapped him up. Instead we hired an assistant with a great pedigree. That has worked pretty well in the past for us. Everyone needs to chill the f)(k out.
I am fine with Wojo. I was just responding with a comment to the poster who mentioned Howland. I have never said anything negative about Wojo. This mess is not his fault.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2015, 02:26:33 PM
8. Last place in the BEast. Shades of Dukiet. There is no excuse for being in last place with our talent.
9. Taylor had a nice game. Might as well give him more of Juan's minutes.
10. Duane played about 3-4 minutes at point. Looked OK. He can create shots. Derrick can't.
11. Our seniors were about 2-15.
12. Should go man more than zone.
13. Sandy had flashes but is not good defending.
14. Fischer and Steve need to learn to kick it out when double teamed. Very rarely do that.
15. Derrick is a good kid, a good defender but nobody guards him 15 feet out. Announcer mentioned that 3 times.
16. Had our ass kicked on the boards. 42-26. Luke needs to get stronger.
Maybe I'm being naive, but IMO, this has a huge impact. Clogging the lane changes the entire path of the game, from passing lanes, to rebounds, to cheating over to help D, etc. This lane-clogging isn't adequately picked up by the "advanced" statistics like Ortg, eFG, FGTC, EKQRfg%, and whatever the hell else. Compare Dewil to anyone else along any metric you'd like, but the one that matters most is Euclidean distance from man-sagging, aka, EDmS%
Relax and respect the process.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 14, 2015, 07:07:27 PMVery interesting article on Ben this past week in the LA Times. Laundry aside, the guy was super successful. It is not like we did not have some "laundry" under the prior coach. That laundry stay buried in the hamper.
Howland was successful, but he burned a ton of recruiting bridges. His players generally seemed to hate playing for him. You're right about the laundry, but part of Wojo's appeal was the idea of actually washing the laundry and not just trying to hide it.
That said, while Duke has a squeaky clean reputation, there are plenty that assert they are just better at hiding it. Either way, whether truly clean or just giving the appearance of a clean program, after the incidents with Buzz and his players, it certainly seems like Wojo is a breath of fresh air, or will be once the air purifier can scrub the stink of this season away.
Quote from: ChuckyChip on February 14, 2015, 03:33:55 PM
There is a big difference between "having" 7/8 players and "playing" 7/8 players. Those teams that play 7/8 typically have 12/13 players to draw from. More competition in practice, more depth. When we have an injury (Carlino) we're down to 7 - other teams have the depth to cover it. When Taylor and JjJ got banged up in the game today, we have nobody behind then. Other teams choose their best 7/8 players - we don't have that luxury. Big difference.
Dayton is down to 6 scholarship players and none over 6'6".
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 14, 2015, 07:07:27 PM
Very interesting article on Ben this past week in the LA Times. Laundry aside, the guy was super successful. It is not like we did not have some "laundry" under the prior coach. That laundry stay buried in the hamper.
Bottom line, I am sick of the "we should be better with the talent we have" argument. Outside of Duane Wilson and Luke, there is not much other talent. Some Marquette fans are suckers for "rankings". What we have seen on the floor is the "talent" we have. Some will get better, but other than the two I mentioned, none are going to make major contributions next season. And Yes, next season we will again depend upon all out high rated players to bail us out. Problem is, they are all Freshmen and we have seen the last several years how that has worked out. Buckle up MU fans, next year will be more of the same based on what is coming back.
And I'm not even sold on the talent of Duane and Luke.
OMG, you people are more depressed than even I am. I admit that Saturday was a bad day, but geez, life aint that bad. Put the pills and the guns away. Suicide now is a bit premature! Here's the reality:
1) We knew last year we had problems with the current team. Our point guard couldn't shoot; the guy supposed to step in ended up in hot dog colors after one practice and the vast majority of our offense -- Oxtule -- was gone. Nobody thought this team would challenge Kentucky for the NCAA championship and many thought this team was going the same place last year's team went -- home. After Dawson and Deonte transferred, we were behind the eight ball. And then Carlino was injured.
2) The biggest rap on this year's team is its basketball IQ is in single digits. As I pointed out elsewhere, daring Derrick to shoot and then being in a position at the end of a shot clock where he has to is no way to win basketball games.
3) Our coach is new. He makes mistakes. So did the Hillbilly, Crean and KO. So did Coach K when he first was at Duke. Be patient.
4) Any realistic timetable on a rebuild not headquartered in Lexington is at least two years. As I said elsewhere, 60% possibility next year we're slightly better than this year. Wojo has to show he can recruit more than one class. That's been the rap on Crean.
5) Finally, forget Shaka, Cuonzo or Ben. They aren't here and the worst thing we could do in the next three years is dump our head coach. Shaka apparently thinks Wisconsin winters are brutal and Cuonzo is UT's sloppy seconds. Ben's so hot he's not coaching anywhere this year. We did good and we'll be fine down the road.
^Weren't you the one who wrote the dear Wojo letter?
Quote from: nyg on February 14, 2015, 02:48:23 PM
JJJ was 1 for 7, 3 points, 3 turnovers, 3 assists. Not a good day for the young fella.......
Must not have gotten 25 minutes
If I'm Wojo with 4 open scholarships I would be delegating practice and game prep to the assistants so I can get out more for recruiting. There's nothing more important than getting at least 2 PG's, at least 2 guys who can contribute immediately with over 12 mins per game, and at least 2 guys with size with those 4 scholarships. He needs to replace 29 ppg, 9.1 apg, and 13.7 rpg and in fact probably needs to ADD about 5ppg, 1-2 apg and 2-3 rpg with these 4 new players.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 15, 2015, 07:41:25 AM
Must not have gotten 25 minutes
And 3 rebounds. Pretty close to a typical Derrick performance.
Cohen led the team with 6 rebounds. Derrick and Luke next with 5 each.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 15, 2015, 07:41:25 AM
Must not have gotten 25 minutes
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Yes, given he's had 30 plus minutes the last three games, we've seen that theory thoroughly debunked.
Quote from: Heisenberg on February 14, 2015, 02:34:37 PM
What talent? We have 7 players and 5 of them cannot shoot. No one can play D, incapable of man-to-man.
everyone but derrick Wilson is a 4 start recruit in the starting lineup. JJJ was#27 recruit in country. Lot of talent that has not developed.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on February 15, 2015, 09:53:12 AM
everyone but derrick Wilson is a 4 start recruit in the starting lineup. JJJ was#27 recruit in country. Lot of talent that has not developed.
Or was overrated from the start...or both...or late bloomers.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 15, 2015, 09:22:00 AM
And 3 rebounds. Pretty close to a typical Derrick performance.
As inadequate as everyone agrees Derrick is offensively, he still somehow manages to have more assists, fewer turnovers, more rebounds, and-- somehow-- shoot at a better clip than JJJ. The guy who SHOOTS WORSE THAN DERRICK WILSON is the guy that needs more minutes?
Other than Luke and Duane, there really isn't any talent. Both Triple J and Cohen have some untapped potential that possibly can be developed with proper coachin'. Anderson is out of his league. Mid major playa, with low basketball IQ, who never worked to develop a shot. Steve fills a back up role, nothin' more. Carlino, a one dimensional rental. As for Derrick's basketball skills, he's a good citizen.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 15, 2015, 10:11:33 AM
As inadequate as everyone agrees Derrick is offensively, he still somehow manages to have more assists, fewer turnovers, more rebounds, and-- somehow-- shoot at a better clip than JJJ. The guy who SHOOTS WORSE THAN DERRICK WILSON is the guy that needs more minutes?
I did not say he deserves more minutes. I said 3 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists are close to a typical Derrick performance. Look at his averages.
But since you brought it up--let's take a look see
Derrick career: 2.9 ppg; FG .379; 3FG .175; Reb. 2.3pg; Assts. 2.5pg
JJJ career: 6.0 ppg; FG .402; 3FG .221; Reb. 1.98; Assts 1.4 pg
So in response to your BS, the facts are there: JJJ shoots better than Derrick, shoots FT's better than Derrick; shoots the 3 better than Derrick and doubles him in points per game.
Why let facts get in the way of your opinion, right?
So yeah, he is the future, is a better producer than Derrick, is a better shooter than Derrick, the season is already a lost cause, so give JJJ more minutes and use Duane/Carlino more at the point.
Just the facts, Jack, and not your speculation as to who is a better shooter!!!!!!!
willie, it really isn't a good comparison to use career numbers when comparing the two. What Derrick did three years ago has little bearing on the player he is now.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 15, 2015, 10:40:23 AM
willie, it really isn't a good comparison to use career numbers when comparing the two. What Derrick did three years ago has little bearing on the player he is now.
Really--OK--the same argument can be made for JJJ. What he did last year and this year will have little bearing on how well he will be as a senior. You cannot deny that without denying what you just posted.
My response was to the BS that some guy claimed that Derrick is a better shooter. BS. He is not and the facts are there!
I have no dog in the hunt, just that we should be preparing for the future, now, and we are 28-29 with Derrick playing 35 minutes per game at the point. As I have said repeatedly, Derrick is a good kid and plays hard, but we are losing anyway, so let's turn the page. What are we afraid of if his minutes are reduced to 20 per game? That we will lose? That is already happening.
We know that you love Derrick, Sultan, and that is fine. But look at what you are saying. I do not believe that you believe that Derrick is a better shooter than JJJ, nor do I believe that you think that JJJ's performance next year or two years from now will be less than or the same as it is now. Your statement above proves that you do not.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 15, 2015, 11:07:11 AM
Really--OK--the same argument can be made for JJJ. What he did last year and this year will have little bearing on how well he will be as a senior. You cannot deny that without denying what you just posted.
My response was to the BS that some guy claimed that Derrick is a better shooter. BS. He is not and the facts are there!
I have no dog in the hunt, just that we should be preparing for the future, now, and we are 28-29 with Derrick playing 35 minutes per game at the point. As I have said repeatedly, Derrick is a good kid and plays hard, but we are losing anyway, so let's turn the page. What are we afraid of if his minutes are reduced to 20 per game? That we will lose? That is already happening.
We know that you love Derrick, Sultan, and that is fine. But look at what you are saying. I do not believe that you believe that Derrick is a better shooter than JJJ, nor do I believe that you think that JJJ's performance next year or two years from now will be less than or the same as it is now. Your statement above proves that you do not.
Calm down.
I never made the comparison. I wouldn't have used JJJ's career numbers either. It is a basic fact that Derrick is shooting better from 2 and from 3 than JJJ is this year. Now if you are arguing who has the potential to have a bigger impact on any given game scoring-wise, it is obviously JJJ. JJJ has the potential to "go off" for 20+ points. He has done so twice this year already. Derrick's highest scoring game for his career is 15.
Put another way, JJJ *can* score much better than Derrick, but he oftentimes ends up being just an inefficient, volume shooter.
Regardless both are playing big minutes now out of necessity.
Seems like now's a good time to dust off the tinfoil hats from the Hiroshima thread from yonder, aina?
One of the problems is that posters here have unrealistic expectations. We are the worst team in the Big East. Stole one from Creighton at home and there was no way on earth we should of won at Seton Hall. Of course Seton Hall laying an egg gave posters here false hope. Looking at the box score it is quite obvious why we lost and it was not from the three point line. We were 9-20, while Creighton was 8-17. The glaring number was rebounding. We were out rebounded by 16. Creighton kept running bigmen at Fischer and Fischer has to be careful not to foul. MU has no choice to play defense without fouling and they have been very successful at not fouling, but that comes at a cost.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 15, 2015, 10:11:33 AM
As inadequate as everyone agrees Derrick is offensively, he still somehow manages to have more assists, fewer turnovers, more rebounds, and-- somehow-- shoot at a better clip than JJJ. The guy who SHOOTS WORSE THAN DERRICK WILSON is the guy that needs more minutes?
You need to lay off the crack. JJJ had a bad game yesterday - in fact one of the worst of his career when given big minutes. Yet what does it parallel - a normal game for Derrick. LOL.
So, the last 3 games of JJJ getting 25+ minutes:
34 minutes per game: 8.6ppg, 4rpg, 2 assists per game, 1.6 steals per game, 2 turnovers pg. 9-24 on 2 pt FGs, 1-7 on 3's. FTs 5 of 8
Derrick:
38 minutes per game: 2.6ppg, 5.3prg, 5 assists per game, .66 steals per game, 2.3 turnovers pg on 3-14 from 2 point FGs, and 0-4 3 point FGA, and 2 of 8 on FTs
Quote from: Eldon on February 15, 2015, 01:47:24 AM
^Weren't you the one who wrote the dear Wojo letter?
Yeah, that's why this amazes me.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 15, 2015, 11:15:07 AM
Calm down.
I never made the comparison. I wouldn't have used JJJ's career numbers either. It is a basic fact that Derrick is shooting better from 2 and from 3 than JJJ is this year. Now if you are arguing who has the potential to have a bigger impact on any given game scoring-wise, it is obviously JJJ. JJJ has the potential to "go off" for 20+ points. He has done so twice this year already. Derrick's highest scoring game for his career is 15.
Put another way, JJJ *can* score much better than Derrick, but he oftentimes ends up being just an inefficient, volume shooter.
Regardless both are playing big minutes now out of necessity.
Larger sample sizes are better than smaller ones Sultan. You do know that? Of course people should look at the total picture rather than the shorter picture. But let's look at the past 5 games since you like to be "current"
Derrick 16 points; 25% 2Pt FG%; 11% 3 Pt FG%
JJJ 38 points 36% 2Pt FG%; 30% 3 Pt FG%
So if your argument is "this year" instead of career, then logically we should break it down further to most current data, like last 5 games. But if you want to say this year, then it is fair to look at the total picture as well.
By any stretch, JJJ is a better shooter, a better offensive performer, a better FT shooter and scorer. And he nedds further development as do Sandy and Duane.
So now that we have that cleared up, you can go on to: Derrick is a good kid, a leader, a better ball handler, etc.
I still say, reduce his minutes, play Carlino/Duane more at PG and give the extra time to Sandy and JJJ. What is the fear? Why not?
Would it be fair to say that while JJJ takes more shots than Derrick, he does so while being more closely guarded ?
Player development has really lacked. Luke, JJJ, Duane, etc. all just treading and no fire.
Wonder if this fail of a season makes Wojo reconsider his staff. Will he keep the two losers from Drake on staff??
Most likely he'll assume it is the roster but this is some of the worst b ball I have ever seen.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 15, 2015, 03:42:01 PM
Player development has really lacked. Luke, JJJ, Duane, etc. all just treading and no fire.
Wonder if this fail of a season makes Wojo reconsider his staff. Will he keep the two losers from Drake on staff??
Most likely he'll assume it is the roster but this is some of the worst b ball I have ever seen.
Duane is not better than last year? How do you know?
Luke is better than last year, but he's a big and that takes a longer learning curve.
"losers from Drake"....what makes you state this?
I'd like to see some more experience on the staff, but come on. And if this is the worst basketball you have seen, you need to get out more often. This isn't close....it's not even close when it comes to MU.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 15, 2015, 03:42:01 PM
Player development has really lacked. Luke, JJJ, Duane, etc. all just treading and no fire.
Wonder if this fail of a season makes Wojo reconsider his staff. Will he keep the two losers from Drake on staff??
Most likely he'll assume it is the roster but this is some of the worst b ball I have ever seen.
Stone Cold: You are stoned if you believe that Duane has not improved since last year He is markedly improved even from the beginning of this season. His scoring has improved, defense has improved and ball handling has improved
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 15, 2015, 10:18:02 AM
Other than Luke and Duane, there really isn't any talent. Both Triple J and Cohen have some untapped potential that possibly can be developed with proper coachin'. Anderson is out of his league. Mid major playa, with low basketball IQ, who never worked to develop a shot. Steve fills a back up role, nothin' more. Carlino, a one dimensional rental. As for Derrick's basketball skills, he's a good citizen.
Your comments are exactly right. That is why I believe next year is going to be just as trying because very little proven scoring is coming back. Obviously Wojo is not done, but he really has his work cut out for him.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 15, 2015, 06:56:04 PM
Your comments are exactly right. That is why I believe next year is going to be just as trying because very little proven scoring is coming back. Obviously Wojo is not done, but he really has his work cut out for him.
Cohen clearly has ability - on both ends. He's still figuring it out though as a true frosh. Duane and Luke both had a big jump on him in experience coming in to this year (sure Duane didn't play any games, but how many practices did he get in against a lot of experienced guys from last year's team).
I'm not sure why Cohen is being excluded from the solid, true talent caregory of our future, and these caveats about him are thrown in? He's the real deal. JJJ on the other hand, well...