MUScoop

Matt Carlino upset by 'dirty play' that resulted in injury


Source: Matt Carlino upset by 'dirty play' that resulted in injury (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/290868441.html)

Not entirely sure what Carlino thinks Arcidiacono should have/could have done in order to prevent that flip.  Arcidiacono did what any other player does when he gets a player up in the air, he took the hit and ensured he'd be taking 2 shots...

I am guessing that he feels that once he was in the air, the Nova player came up into him, enhancing the fall.    Splitting hairs. 

Arch has to go up or else the foul will be on the floor. Unfortunate result for Carlino but absolutely nothing dirty about it.

Also, Carlino should NOT have come back into that game. He was clearly concussed. Right after it happened, his eyes were glazed and he was staring into space before resting his head back down on the floor. Obviously the coaches and trainers didn't see the TV angle of that so they presumably didn't know, but isn't there someone in the arena who had access to that view and could get word to the bench? I ask that sincerely. Maybe there's not.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 05, 2015, 08:27:53 AM
Also, Carlino should NOT have come back into that game. He was clearly concussed. Right after it happened, his eyes were glazed and he was staring into space before resting his head back down on the floor. Obviously the coaches and trainers didn't see the TV angle of that so they presumably didn't know, but isn't there someone in the arena who had access to that view and could get word to the bench? I ask that sincerely. Maybe there's not.

Agreed.  I was watching the game on my laptop, so my screen wasn't very large, but I thought for sure his eyes looked glazed over.

I could not believe he was let back in the game, there was no reason for it.

That was a terrible play.  I couldn't believe that matt walked away from that.  Clearly concussed.  I thought he broke his neck when I initially saw it.  The grimace on Wojo's face as he walked over was memorable.  All that being said, this was not a dirty play in the least.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 05, 2015, 08:27:53 AM
Arch has to go up or else the foul will be on the floor. Unfortunate result for Carlino but absolutely nothing dirty about it.

Also, Carlino should NOT have come back into that game. He was clearly concussed. Right after it happened, his eyes were glazed and he was staring into space before resting his head back down on the floor. Obviously the coaches and trainers didn't see the TV angle of that so they presumably didn't know, but isn't there someone in the arena who had access to that view and could get word to the bench? I ask that sincerely. Maybe there's not.

Agree with every word of this. The fact that Carlino thought it was a dirty play probably means he still wasn't thinking straight after the game.

Zero, absolutely zero, dirty about the play.

I find it interesting that there are multiple people not anywhere near Carlino who know, as a fact, he was "clearly concussed" and shouldn't have played thereafter.

And just to preempt the typical Scoop douchebaggery, yes you can have an opinion and yes I couldn't give a crap what that opinion is but stating it as fact is misguided.

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 05, 2015, 09:32:18 AM
I find it interesting that there are multiple people not anywhere near Carlino who know, as a fact, he was "clearly concussed" and shouldn't have played thereafter.

And just to preempt the typical Scoop douchebaggery, yes you can have an opinion and yes I couldn't give a crap what that opinion is but stating it as fact is misguided.

If you start the douchebaggery, you are not preempting it.   

Quote from: tower912 on February 05, 2015, 09:33:34 AM
If you start the douchebaggery, you are not preempting it.   

I follow your lead.

So, no worries in your head about people making up their mind without knowing any factual details of a situation? No wonder I cringe when your name pops up on my screen.

There was nothing dirty about the play.  Both players going strong and making a basketball play.  Must be the concussion talking.

Not being there, not seeing any scans, I can't say for certain Carlino was concussed. But he did take a bad fall that could have easily done head or neck damage. We were down 20 on the road. There was no reason for him to come back in. Despite him playing, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he missed time in upcoming games. He should have had a collar and an ambulance ride. There's no way to accurately assess the damage that could have been done on the bench.

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 05, 2015, 09:32:18 AM
I find it interesting that there are multiple people not anywhere near Carlino who know, as a fact, he was "clearly concussed" and shouldn't have played thereafter.

And just to preempt the typical Scoop douchebaggery, yes you can have an opinion and yes I couldn't give a crap what that opinion is but stating it as fact is misguided.

There is literally one person on the thread that stated it as fact.  The other simply said there was no reason to put him back in the game, which everyone should be able to agree with.  Shut the guy down for a half of a blowout.

I stated that he was clearly concussed.

His head was 8+ feet in the air and he came crashing down, head-first onto a hard surface and then sat dazed, with his eyes glazed over for several seconds before slowly placing his head on the ground. Admittedly it's not a fact that he was concussed but, using common sense, I'm 97% certain that he was.

I also used the term.  And saw the same thing at Merritsmustache.  I did not diagnose him, but from my experience of having a concussion, that was a textbook concussion.  He didn't know if he was in Philly or Provo, Utah.

Embarrassingly, I didn't remember the game was on until 3 minutes left.   

Any video of Carlino's fall?

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 05, 2015, 09:40:27 AM
I follow your lead.

So, no worries in your head about people making up their mind without knowing any factual details of a situation? No wonder I cringe when your name pops up on my screen.

I said nothing about him being concussed.   And the feeling is completely mutual. 

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 05, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Embarrassingly, I didn't remember the game was on until 3 minutes left.   

Any video of Carlino's fall?

I looked earlier this morning and couldn't find anything

Senior day can't come soon enough.

He could have had a concussion, he also could not have had one.  There are no scans that can tell you whether he had one or not either.  We have no idea, just trust that the team ATC did the proper tests after.  I remember 2 years ago Junior collided with Ashton Gibbs? at Pitt.  I immediately told my friends that Gibbs wasn't coming back in.  The University of Pittsburgh's medical school is at the forefront of concussion research/ treatment.  If Carlino was at Pitt, he probably would have not played after that.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 05, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Embarrassingly, I didn't remember the game was on until 3 minutes left.   

Any video of Carlino's fall?

Just imagine him doing a routine on the uneven bars and he sticks the landing on his face.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 05, 2015, 11:15:29 AM
Embarrassingly, I didn't remember the game was on until 3 minutes left.   

Any video of Carlino's fall?

Scroll down to the small video.  You can see it at about 35 second mark.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/no-7-villanova-wildcats-romp-hand-marquette-golden-eagles-their-6th-straight-loss-020415 (http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/no-7-villanova-wildcats-romp-hand-marquette-golden-eagles-their-6th-straight-loss-020415)

Sorry--pretty grainy.

another.

1K yard stare.

I too thought it to be a basketball play with no ill intent on Archi's part.  That was one helluva tumble.  Glad Matt's okay leaving out the discussion of whether he should have reentered the game.

The stare is what looks like a concussion, he did have a bloody nose so if he landed on his face it's actually better in terms of avoiding concussions (jaw and back of head being worse)  That being said, the game was out of hand, I would of not let him come back in.  I was way more worried about a spinal cord injury, that was ugly stuff. 

Seriously, I think Marquette's training staff knows better than "random fan watching the television" whether or not he was "clearly concussed."  Just because someone is dazed after hitting their head, that doesn't mean they have a concussion.  Also, someone can look just fine immediately after hitting their head and come down with concussion symptoms later.

Right, for sure, that's why because the game was out of hand I probably just would of ended his night.  But who know what he was saying/ looked like.  I do like many MU fans have some training on this.  Not faulting the staff, I am just being overly cautious.  Carlino was air balling threes after that anyway ;)  Glad he's ok.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 05, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Seriously, I think Marquette's training staff knows better than "random fan watching the television" whether or not he was "clearly concussed."  Just because someone is dazed after hitting their head, that doesn't mean they have a concussion.  Also, someone can look just fine immediately after hitting their head and come down with concussion symptoms later.

I heard that MU isn't going to fly their medical staff with the team any longer. They will just watch the game on TV and evaluate players from there.

Also, playing time is going to be determined by american idol style voting, seen as Wojo is going such a poor job.

I do not know if he had a concussion, but he aired balled two three point attempts after he came back in.

It occurred to me after it happen that you can be thrown out of a game, if you hit a player above the shoulders. I think this kind of play is much more dangerous than a random elbow. I am not sure what you do about it, but maybe it should be looked at. There was another play were Archdiancano faked somebody on a three point shot and then jumped into him and was awarded three free throws. This is a common thing he does. I would not prevent that, but maybe there should be a rule if you undercut a player that has left his feet and falls on his head. You can argue it was not intentional, but most elbows to the head are not intentional.

Quote from: bilsu on February 05, 2015, 05:34:44 PM
I do not know if he had a concussion, but he aired balled two three point attempts after he came back in.

It occurred to me after it happen that you can be thrown out of a game, if you hit a player above the shoulders. I think this kind of play is much more dangerous than a random elbow. I am not sure what you do about it, but maybe it should be looked at. There was another play were Archdiancano faked somebody on a three point shot and then jumped into him and was awarded three free throws. This is a common thing he does. I would not prevent that, but maybe there should be a rule if you undercut a player that has left his feet and falls on his head. You can argue it was not intentional, but most elbows to the head are not intentional.

I do believe that there was no intent on Archdiancano's part to injure, and I think that you provide a fair description of the play.  I like your point comparing it to the rules concerning elbows.  To my eyes, Carlino was up in the air when Archdiancano sprung up from a crouched position (probably to be in the act of shooting when fouled) which resulted in Carlino being flipped over almost 180 degrees, so that he was headed to the floor head first.  It was a very scary fall, I fully understand Carlino being touchy about it.

Pretty hard/impossible to diagnose a concussion based on a still from a video clip.  I'd trust the training staff's assessment of his mental status immediately after the event occurred.  He can be cleared of a cervical spine injury clinically on the bench (without further imaging).

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 05, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Seriously, I think Marquette's training staff knows better than "random fan watching the television" whether or not he was "clearly concussed."  Just because someone is dazed after hitting their head, that doesn't mean they have a concussion.  Also, someone can look just fine immediately after hitting their head and come down with concussion symptoms later.

Like you said, someone can look just fine immediately after hitting their head and come down with concussion symptoms later. Someone can also be completely dazed (like Carlino was) but be well enough to pass the concussion protocol a few minutes later. I firmly believe that he was clearly concussed. Disagree if you will. We're all entitled to our opinions.

We were down by 1,000 points. Really, there was no reason for him to come back in.

I'm not jumping to concussion conclusions, just using common sense. A perfect opportunity to play the younger guys.

And I say this as a Wojo fan who rarely criticizes his rotation.

He was either concussed or he was not concussed.  We must defer to the training staff---they know more than you or me. They said he was not concussed and is OK to play. Therefore, he plays. There is no middle ground.

Therefore, if he was NOT concussed as determined by professionals in this area, not the random fan, there is no reason for Matt not to play regardless of the score of the game. He was cleared to play.

Quote from: g0lden3agle on February 05, 2015, 09:59:18 AM
There is literally one person on the thread that stated it as fact.  The other simply said there was no reason to put him back in the game, which everyone should be able to agree with.  Shut the guy down for a half of a blowout.

There was more than one who stated opinion as fact. Three days ago that was misguided. Now, it is totally appropriate to state it as fact.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 05, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Seriously, I think Marquette's training staff knows better than "random fan watching the television" whether or not he was "clearly concussed."  Just because someone is dazed after hitting their head, that doesn't mean they have a concussion.  Also, someone can look just fine immediately after hitting their head and come down with concussion symptoms later.

Apparently they should have listened to the "random fan watching the television."  ;)

In all seriousness, I wish Matt a full and speedy recovery.

Seriously, Matt was concussed when he fell from 8' onto his head and didn't know where he was for 30 seconds?????

Ill defer to the MU training staff, just a random fan here.

Apparently the MU training staff needs a refresher on concussions. These are serious events where safety should come first. When in doubt the player sits. We should not be gambling with the health of our players period.

Quote from: Class71 on February 07, 2015, 03:17:42 PM
Apparently the MU training staff needs a refresher on concussions. These are serious events where safety should come first. When in doubt the player sits. We should not be gambling with the health of our players period.

Well, it's tough to say. He could have passed all appropriate concussion protocol testing. You can be dazed or whatever and not have a concussion. You can also show signs (that fail testing) later on. Concussions are dicey. In this (and only this) situation, I would have sat him as preventative due to the game situation.

Is there a concussion protocol?  Not saying MU doesnt have one or it wasnt implemented, but the extensive sideline testing seemed to include:

Staff-- "U OK?"

Matt: "Yeah, I'm fine".

2 min later MC was back in the game shooting an airball.

Quote from: We R Final Four on February 07, 2015, 03:34:41 PM
Is there a concussion protocol?  Not saying MU doesnt have one or it wasnt implemented, but the extensive sideline testing seemed to include:

Staff-- "U OK?"

Matt: "Yeah, I'm fine".

2 min later MC was back in the game shooting an airball.

I coach youth football and have a concerned citizen's understand of concussion testing in sports. It's my understanding that to do the full battery of recommended sideline tests (in football) it would take longer than a minute or two. At the same time it seems that there is a judgment call being made as to whether the full battery is really necessary if the player "seems" perfectly fine.

Also, as to the wishy-washy nature of concussion detection / diagnosis. This is one of the most difficult diagnoses even for a neurologist to make, let alone an athletic trainer to make. I'm not saying that they are unqualified, just that it is very difficult and not as clear-cut as having a cold. There is a long list of signs/symptoms which someone may or may not be experiencing for any of them to be deemed a concussion. Some of them may have been missed. I don't think the concussion protocol is standardized in college basketball as it is in professional football and it probably ought to be.

Quote from: Class71 on February 07, 2015, 03:17:42 PM
Apparently the MU training staff needs a refresher on concussions. These are serious events where safety should come first. When in doubt the player sits. We should not be gambling with the health of our players period.

They went through a protocol on the sidelines (you could see it from the TV).  He passed.  When he went to the hospital later, they couldn't even verify that he had a concussion (at least that is what the announcers said).  They kept him out this game as a precaution.

Quote from: forgetful on February 07, 2015, 04:26:30 PM
They went through a protocol on the sidelines (you could see it from the TV).  He passed.  When he went to the hospital later, they couldn't even verify that he had a concussion (at least that is what the announcers said).  They kept him out this game as a precaution.

He may of passed the test, but the game was basically over with whether he came back in or not. It just was a poor decision to play him.

Quote from: bilsu on February 07, 2015, 04:56:07 PM
He may of passed the test, but the game was basically over with whether he came back in or not. It just was a poor decision to play him.

I agree.  I would rather MU be overly cautious with the players health.