1. Quick question. How many MU players had played meaningful minutes in a conference road game prior to tonight? Before anybody starts screaming, contemplate that question.
2. Can't fault the effort. Wojo is getting max effort out of his team. MU played harder tonight.
3. Need to shoot better.
4. Smith is a load.
5. Beating G-town in DC is just more than this team has right now. No shame in it.
6. A lot of good things, but not enough winning things.
7. All you can ever ask for in a conference road game is chance to win at the end. MU got that tonight. Couldn't quite get over the hump.
8. Wojo went with Carlino, Duane, and JJJ down the stretch. IMO, MU needed Derrick's leadership on the floor, even if he isn't going to hit a jumper. Offense couldn't get synced.
9. Learn, grow, next.
Georgetown 23 for 28, MU 8 for 12 on free throws.
Fischer shooting 80% from field and only takes six shots.
1. Don't care. the TO's were inexcusable. Just sad really most of them.
8. Carlino was a mess but when its just Derrick out there the offense just boggs down. That is how it ballooned quickly to 52-46 without Luke. We stood there looking like idiots.
Frustrating watching them make two rallies to complete blow a gasket. This team has no expectation but then teases to exceed them and falls apart late in two road games.
Why couldn't we be in this conference with DJO/Jae? We would win every game by double digits. As I said in game thread, bad year to have a 8 man 1 year rebuilding project.
Anyone see wojo and Thompson shake hands after the game?
Looked like a typical tan tommy blow by. Strange.
Feed the Fish!! Has to have more then 6 shots
Not to bash Matt, but..... He is a 5th year senior, I expect more, when you ain't hitting shots, look for what is working, LF down low, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I actually expected to pull out a win late in the game
Still waiting for Carlino to get crazy hot from 3, in conference play.
STJ had moments. He plays well at Georgetown. Waiting for a Novak like Junior year...all,of a sudden turns it on.
Quote from: nyg on January 06, 2015, 08:05:48 PM
Fischer shooting 80% from field and only takes six shots.
Can't think of many, if any, good shots that he passed up though. Now if you are saying they need to get him the ball in scoring position more often rather than chuck up a three I'll agree wholeheartedly.
Agree on 8 tower.
The offense was a disaster once Wojo took Derrick out. By the time Wojo figured it out, we were down 5 with about 40 sec. left. Not saying Derrick should be looking to shoot, but the offense disappears when he is out.
10. JJJ is so much better on the top of the zone D---tips,steals, etc.
On the baseline, he gets beat on position on the weak side boards almost every time.
I'm continually underwhelmed by Carlino's decision making and carelessness with the ball. He seems to be playing for himself out there
SCIII seemed freaked out tonight. For as good as he was Sat he was a dumpster fire with the ball in his hands.
Better than I expected, let down because MU should have stole this one. Did I hear correctly that GT had 6 field goals in the 2nd half?
Quote from: JD on January 06, 2015, 08:07:03 PM
Anyone see wojo and Thompson shake hands after the game?
Looked like a typical tan tommy blow by. Strange.
Yeah, almost seemed like Wojo was pissed 'bout some overpriced ducats or somethin', hey?
On the road you can't have TOs.
You can't miss FTs.
Also, people are complaining that we didn't feed Fischer, but Georgetown did a fantastic job denying him the ball and pushing him well off the block.
There were two key sequences in the game. Late in the first half, a missed opportunity by Cohen on the break that led to a series of really poor possession. Game got sped up too much and people made poor decisions. Missed opportunity for us.
Second key sequence. Georgetown switches to a zone, we stagnate and people panic a bit and make poor decisions leading to three consecutive possessions with turnovers.
Young team on the road in BE play against a very good opponent. Too many mistakes leads to a loss.
Quote from: TSmith34 on January 06, 2015, 08:10:11 PM
Can't think of many, if any, good shots that he passed up though. Now if you are saying they need to get him the ball in scoring position more often rather than chuck up a three I'll agree wholeheartedly.
Umm, yes......and more yes.....
I liked how wojo didn't give up on some of the younger guys when they made mistakes in the first half. That lineup of dwil, jj, sandy, Taylor, and Fischer caused some turnovers and got em back in the game.
It was frustrating when they cut it to one Derrick and carlino threw it away on back to back possessions. Cut it to one again and Duane travels. Hard to take the lead when you can't even get the shot up to do so.
Georgetown was ripe to be beat tonight. It's unfortunate the guys didn't take advantage and get it done. Many more chances though. This team will get better. Hopefully playing best ball by March.
Unless Wojo finds a PG that can play from day one, next year is gonna be much of the same.
That was just an incredible display of basketball suckitude.
Tim Brando was awful. He kept calling players-who-aren't-Taylor "Taylor." Then the went rambling on about DePaul's resurgence and that Illinois owns Chicago recruiting. W....T....F????
I really can't think of any redeeming performances by any Warrior tonight.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 06, 2015, 08:11:51 PM
Agree on 8 tower.
The offense was a disaster once Wojo took Derrick out. By the time Wojo figured it out, we were down 5 with about 40 sec. left. Not saying Derrick should be looking to shoot, but the offense disappears when he is out.
With 45 seconds left, we had the ball and a chance to tie. There wasn't anything to figure out at that point.
Our perimeter shooting is is our Achilles heal.
We played hard, tremendous effort. Sloppy passing, mental errors traveling, it overall played as hard as we can expect.
We hot banged around all over the court too. Very physical game.
Carlino has got to be one of the worst passing guards I have every seen at MU. I can't tell if he misjudges peoples position on the court or his hands don't pass the ball where his mind thinks it should go. There were a number of pass he threw that just handed the ball back to GT. His inbound play to Fisher was one of the worst. I want to like the guy because we need him out there but every time he makes a pass I expect a turn over.
Oh well valiant effort in a tough road game. The bad part was GT's second half shooting made them ripe for the upset but we threw it away, literally and figuratively
Quote from: brandx on January 06, 2015, 08:15:28 PM
With 45 seconds left, we had the ball and a chance to tie. There wasn't anything to figure out at that point.
We were down 5 when Derrick came back in.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 06, 2015, 08:15:15 PM
That was just an incredible display of basketball suckitude.
I really can't think of any redeeming performances by any Warrior tonight.
I'd argue Luke didn't suck. Missed FTs early but otherwise played well.
Quote from: forgetful on January 06, 2015, 08:13:10 PM
On the road you can't have TOs.
You can't miss FTs.
Also, people are complaining that we didn't feed Fischer, but Georgetown did a fantastic job denying him the ball and pushing him well off the block.
There were two key sequences in the game. Late in the first half, a missed opportunity by Cohen on the break that led to a series of really poor possession. Game got sped up too much and people made poor decisions. Missed opportunity for us.
Second key sequence. Georgetown switches to a zone, we stagnate and people panic a bit and make poor decisions leading to three consecutive possessions with turnovers.
Young team on the road in BE play against a very good opponent. Too many mistakes leads to a loss.
Agreed with all of this. Fischer faced constant double and triple teams where he couldn't shoot if he wanted to.
We needed Derrick at the end. For all his shortcomings, he is sure with the ball and gets it to other guys in positions to make plays. He can't be sitting with the game on the line.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on January 06, 2015, 08:18:05 PM
Carlino has got to be one of the worst passing guards I have every seen at MU. I can't tell if he misjudges peoples position on the court or his hands don't pass the ball where his mind thinks it should go. There were a number of pass he threw that just handed the ball back to GT. His inbound play to Fisher was one of the worst. I want to like the guy because we need him out there but every time he makes a pass I expect a turn over.
Oh well valiant effort in a tough road game. The bad part was GT's second half shooting made them ripe for the upset but we threw it away, literally and figuratively
While I agree he does make some passes that just make you "wonder what the heck?" he had 1 turnover tonight, so I don't know how he had a number of passes that ended up just being handed back to Georgetown.
Yes, we played hard! I like the hustle, good things still to come!
3 turnovers alone from happy feet at the top of the key. C'mon now...
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 06, 2015, 08:15:15 PM
That was just an incredible display of basketball suckitude.
Tim Brando was awful. He kept calling players-who-aren't-Taylor "Taylor." Then the went rambling on about DePaul's resurgence and that Illinois owns Chicago recruiting. W....T....F????
I really can't think of any redeeming performances by any Warrior tonight.
Yes--I get when you mix up the Wilsons, but he called Duane Wilson "Taylor" at least twice.
When he made that comment about Illinois getting Chicago kids-I said out loud--what the hell is he talking about?
When in the lead at the end, Carlino in the game. When behind, Derrick.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 06, 2015, 08:23:18 PM
While I agree he does make some passes that just make you "wonder what the heck?" he had 1 turnover tonight, so I don't know how he had a number of passes that ended up just being handed back to Georgetown.
He had at least two -- the one in the first half he threw towards the sideline that lead to a breakaway for GU, and the one late throwing it to the high post, plus the other time in the first half he inbounded from under the basket and threw it over Luke's head leading to another GU breakaway.
Luke needs to rebound. Played 30+ minutes and had 2. Maybe 3. Carlino continues to disappoint.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 06, 2015, 08:23:18 PM
While I agree he does make some passes that just make you "wonder what the heck?" he had 1 turnover tonight, so I don't know how he had a number of passes that ended up just being handed back to Georgetown.
If the box score shows him with only one TO then they a giving TO's he caused to other players because the ball touched their hands before being stolen. I can remember 4 separate situations where he "created" the turn over with a bad pass.
Quote from: TSmith34 on January 06, 2015, 08:21:42 PM
I'd argue Luke didn't suck. Missed FTs early but otherwise played well.
He was thoroughly outworked on the boards.
Meanwhile in Milwaukee, the Bucks are looking good against the Suns.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 06, 2015, 08:32:23 PM
He was thoroughly outworked on the boards.
Agree he had too few, and he only had three boards last game I believe. I'll give him a slight pass given he had to try to move Josh Smith. Still, I think he was one of the few that made a positive overall contribution.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on January 06, 2015, 08:30:25 PM
If the box score shows him with only one TO then they a giving TO's he caused to other players because the ball touched their hands before being stolen. I can remember 4 separate situations where he "created" the turn over with a bad pass.
ESPN box score has been updated to show 3 TO for Carlino now
Quote from: wadesworld on January 06, 2015, 08:23:18 PM
While I agree he does make some passes that just make you "wonder what the heck?" he had 1 turnover tonight, so I don't know how he had a number of passes that ended up just being handed back to Georgetown.
There is NO WAY that Matt had only 1 TO tonite.
Edit: Sorry, TSmith - didn't see your post.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 06, 2015, 08:27:39 PM
When in the lead at the end, Carlino in the game. When behind, Derrick.
I get the idea, and it did play itself out that way this game, but there is something to be said for looking to score as the clock is running down in a game where you're behind (which is what Carlino does--well, he
always does it), as compared to being so deliberate with the ball for fear of committing a turnover (which is what Derrick typically does).
Quote from: brandx on January 06, 2015, 08:44:05 PM
There is NO WAY that Matt had only 1 TO tonite.
The ESPN boxscore has one. But TSmith was right about the two he remembered. I am not sure if the out of bounds play is considered a turnover, but that was clearly his fault as well.
Face facts we simply don't have a good pg, you know this when derrick wilson is the best one we have.
Had to listen on radio. Homer and Mac kept talking about how JJJ and Duane would drive towards the basket but rather than go into the defender and draw a foul they twist themselves to avoid contact and then miss the shot. Any truth to that?
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on January 06, 2015, 08:56:44 PM
Had to listen on radio. Homer and Mac kept talking about how JJJ and Duane would drive towards the basket but rather than go into the defender and draw a foul they twist themselves to avoid contact and then miss the shot. Any truth to that?
Absolutely - and that is where another year in the weight room will help.
They are still two young guys learning the college game.
Quote from: nyg on January 06, 2015, 08:05:48 PM
Georgetown 23 for 28, MU 8 for 12 on free throws.
Fischer shooting 80% from field and only takes six shots.
exactly
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 06, 2015, 08:12:18 PM
I'm continually underwhelmed by Carlino's decision making and carelessness with the ball. He seems to be playing for himself out there
SCIII seemed freaked out tonight. For as good as he was Sat he was a dumpster fire with the ball in his hands.
Better than I expected, let down because MU should have stole this one. Did I hear correctly that GT had 6 field goals in the 2nd half?
Agreed. Matt is not that great of a 3-point shooter, he's certainly had some good stretches in the season (especially against GT), but his results have been average otherwise. Especially of late. What kills me is to continuously see him jack up threes when they haven't been falling for the past month. IMO Matt can be special driving to the basket and improvising, I really wish he did that more often. ESPECIALLY if him driving to the basket could replace some of the wild 3-point shots. Hell, it might even force the opposing teams to give him a little more space on the three...
Are we ever going to have a good shooting game from the floor? Luke is a welcome addition, but not much of a rebounder.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 06, 2015, 08:45:45 PM
The ESPN boxscore has one. But TSmith was right about the two he remembered. I am not sure if the out of bounds play is considered a turnover, but that was clearly his fault as well.
They have increased it to 3 now. That is a more accurate count.
Quote from: Knight Commission on January 06, 2015, 08:09:07 PM
STJ had moments. He plays well at Georgetown. Waiting for a Novak like Junior year...all,of a sudden turns it on.
You cannot possibly be serious.
We are a very small team w/o muscle, I don't get STjr. at all, he hasn't improved at all. Last year was truly a wasted year
for most of these guys.
Quote from: Blueprint on January 06, 2015, 09:31:54 PM
We are a very small team w/o muscle, I don't get STjr. at all, he hasn't improved at all. Last year was truly a wasted year
for most of these guys.
That's an understatement. Most of the players are increbibly weak relative to the competition. Big change from what we are used to from the last 5 years or so.
Remember when we played Murray State a couple years ago and their coach said MU looked like a football team
during our pre-game warm-ups.
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2015, 08:02:49 PM
1. Quick question. How many MU players had played meaningful minutes in a conference road game prior to tonight? Before anybody starts screaming, contemplate that question.
2. Can't fault the effort. Wojo is getting max effort out of his team. MU played harder tonight.
3. Need to shoot better.
4. Smith is a load.
5. Beating G-town in DC is just more than this team has right now. No shame in it.
6. A lot of good things, but not enough winning things.
7. All you can ever ask for in a conference road game is chance to win at the end. MU got that tonight. Couldn't quite get over the hump.
8. Wojo went with Carlino, Duane, and JJJ down the stretch. IMO, MU needed Derrick's leadership on the floor, even if he isn't going to hit a jumper. Offense couldn't get synced.
9. Learn, grow, next.
10. Other than making their free throws, Georgetown played horribly in the second half. Game was ours for the taking. We couldn't get it done.
Quote from: MARQ_13 on January 06, 2015, 09:38:14 PM
That's an understatement. Most of the players are increbibly weak relative to the competition. Big change from what we are used to from the last 5 years or so.
Steve, Derrick, Juan, Carlino, and Luke are all just fine in terms of physical strength. JJJ, Duane, and Cohen are all thin. Shocking that it's the underclassmen (outside of Luke) who need to add weight.
I watched with a G'Town alum. As he said, the Hoyas were doing everything the could to give it away, but we refused to accept the gift. It is hard for me to argue with his comments.
Other than Carlino, nobody on MU's team has ever, at the college level, been a go to guy at crunch time. They were all clearly deferring to Matt.
Every team is going to try to take Luke away. Every game, it is going to be a new learning experience how to get him the ball.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400588404
As much as Carlino can be frustrating, I really can't imagine how much worse MU would be without him.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 07, 2015, 08:14:06 AM
As much as Carlino can be frustrating, I really can't imagine how much worse MU would be without him.
I completely agree. His problem late last night was trying to do it all himself and not get his opportunities through the offense. It isn't the first time. Hopefully, he can work through it.
Marquette did a great job with the zone defense. It's very active and clearly disrupted our offense. Not a good game by my Hoyas, but we made winning plays down the stretch.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6wU4V6CYAAZf0F.png)
MU won eFG% but lost the other four factors. Losing on OR% is not a surprise. However, just matching GU on turnovers isn't enough to win against a good team on the road.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 06, 2015, 08:15:15 PM
That was just an incredible display of basketball suckitude.
I really can't think of any redeeming performances by any Warrior tonight.
This is a surprisingly willie-like comment from you, Sultan; you generally are more optimistic.
Luke didn't miss a shot, and a few of them were difficult shots over big men. Jajuan, Juan, Derrick and even Carlino had some pretty good moments out there, too.
Georgetown didn't play its best game, but to have a legit chance in the final minutes on the road against a team that has been ranked this season ... this was nowhere near a "suckitude" game.
Omaha sucked. The last 5 minutes at DePaul sucked. NJIT sucked even in victory. I thought we made too many mistakes tonight, but I didn't think we "sucked."
Just my opinion, of course.
Quote from: MU82 on January 07, 2015, 09:25:50 AM
Omaha sucked. The last 5 minutes at DePaul sucked. NJIT sucked even in victory. I thought we made too many mistakes tonight, but I didn't think we "sucked."
I didn't mean Marquette sucked. I meant the game was just bad basketball. Turnovers...bad shooting...ugly possession after ugly possession. There really is no way I would have watched that game had I not had a rooting interest. Most regular season college basketball has gotten depressingly poor.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 07, 2015, 09:35:26 AM
There really is no way I would have watched that game had I not had a rooting interest. Most regular season college basketball has gotten depressingly poor.
For the first time in my life, I've watched more NBA ball than college, and it's not close. College basketball is such a crap product.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on January 07, 2015, 09:13:35 AM
Marquette did a great job with the zone defense. It's very active and clearly disrupted our offense. Not a good game by my Hoyas, but we made winning plays down the stretch.
Not so hard to do when the opposition throws the ball straight to you.
Quote from: MARQ_13 on January 06, 2015, 08:14:19 PM
Cut it to one again and Duane travels.
That travel by Duane was a back-breaker, but on that play Anderson passed up a wide open 8-10 footer to kick it back to Duane. Sometimes some of our guys forget to look at the friggin' hoop. Taylor passed up a wide open 10 footer and tried to go one on three against bigger guys at the hoop and got stuffed earlier in the game. Duane and JjJ often pass up open mid-range twos to careen into the lane. We often take forced shots at the end of the shot clock when we had good opportunities during the possession. I think some of our guys need to do a better job recognizing when they have a good shot.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 07, 2015, 09:58:47 AM
That travel by Duane was a back-breaker, but on that play Anderson passed up a wide open 8-10 footer to kick it back to Duane. Sometimes some of our guys forget to look at the friggin' hoop. Taylor passed up a wide open 10 footer and tried to go one on three against bigger guys at the hoop and got stuffed earlier in the game. Duane and JjJ often pass up open mid-range twos to careen into the lane. We often take forced shots at the end of the shot clock when we had good opportunities during the possession. I think some of our guys need to do a better job recognizing when they have a good shot.
Ideally, that ability will come with experience. The mid-range game, itself comes with experience. Most perimeter players come out of HS scoring almost entirely 3s or drives. You rarely see pull-up jumpers or even 12-15 footers much. MU is not a great outside shooting team but another way to break a zone is by simply hitting shots from open areas inside the 3-point line - think back to Lazar working the high post.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 07, 2015, 09:52:29 AM
For the first time in my life, I've watched more NBA ball than college, and it's not close. College basketball is such a crap product.
Lakers coach Byron Scott said college basketball is more aggressive and "much more physical" than the NBA.
The NBA is much more adaptable than the NCAA.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 06, 2015, 10:09:03 PM
Steve, Derrick, Juan, Carlino, and Luke are all just fine in terms of physical strength. JJJ, Duane, and Cohen are all thin. Shocking that it's the underclassmen (outside of Luke) who need to add weight.
I would even argue that Luke needs to put on some weight. He's obviously not as skinny as Cohen or Duane, but seeing him in person on Saturday for the first time, I was kind of surprised how slender he is for his frame. He doesn't need to be transformed, but I think a bit of bulk will make him even more of a beast inside.
I would venture that 99% of 7' 20 year olds could put on some weight.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 07, 2015, 11:29:16 AM
I would even argue that Luke needs to put on some weight. He's obviously not as skinny as Cohen or Duane, but seeing him in person on Saturday for the first time, I was kind of surprised how slender he is for his frame. He doesn't need to be transformed, but I think a bit of bulk will make him even more of a beast inside.
I don't disagree, adding some weight would be helpful, but he isn't too thin/weak to where he
needs it, like Cohen, Duane, and JJJ. Juan also
could use a bit more, but he has filled out quite a bit and is now a solid build.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 07, 2015, 10:14:28 AM
Ideally, that ability will come with experience. The mid-range game, itself comes with experience. Most perimeter players come out of HS scoring almost entirely 3s or drives. You rarely see pull-up jumpers or even 12-15 footers much. MU is not a great outside shooting team but another way to break a zone is by simply hitting shots from open areas inside the 3-point line - think back to Lazar working the high post.
Agreed. And hopefully this is something that Wojo and the coaching staff recognize and point out in film study.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 07, 2015, 11:29:16 AM
I would even argue that Luke needs to put on some weight. He's obviously not as skinny as Cohen or Duane, but seeing him in person on Saturday for the first time, I was kind of surprised how slender he is for his frame. He doesn't need to be transformed, but I think a bit of bulk will make him even more of a beast inside.
I agree that Luke needs to put on some weight. I would also argue that some weight will come in a few years when he will be putting some NBA coin in his pocket.
I was very happy with the way we played defense. Early in the season, we were horrible on defense, but now we seem to be very solid. Our young players JJJ, Wilson and Cohen are very quick. However, they need to learn how to utilize their quickness. Offensively we are taking too many threes and driving to the basket too much. We need to learn to take pull up jumpers. Right now the defense is just packing it in when we drive all the way to the hoop.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 07, 2015, 08:14:06 AM
As much as Carlino can be frustrating, I really can't imagine how much worse MU would be without him.
My head tells me that this is true, especially with our lack of depth, but every time I have seen Carlino play frustration is my dominant take away.