1. Luke Fischer was a man.
2. So was Duane Wilson
3. And then JJJ. Big night for the sophomores.
4. Juan was the unsung hero. Absolutely huge in the first half.
5. Derrick was bad.
6. Carlino wasn't much better
7. Nor Steve.
8. The man-to-man looked completely different with a mobile 6'11 guy back there. Love having options on defense. This team will need both.
9. Going to have to get minutes from everybody. I personally get uncomfortable when guys go much past the 32 mark. Yes, it is arbitrary, but usually you see guys start to tire around that point. You might have noticed that late run. Tired everything and everybody.
10. I am not seeing a difference between practicing FT's and not practicing FT's. Maybe is is just me.
11. There is certainly potential and hope. Need to work out the rotations and get consistent effort from everybody.
12. Nice to see the return of transition scoring.
13. Need to finish strong. Tonight was poor. Learn from it.
14. Good win. Lots of things to celebrate, lots of things to work on.
JJJ played excellent defense tonite. With his offensive skills, that is the ticket to 30-plus minutes.
Quote from: tower912 on December 16, 2014, 10:02:30 PM
1. Luke Fischer was a man.
2. So was Duane Wilson
3. And then JJJ. Big night for the sophomores.
4. Juan was the unsung hero. Absolutely huge in the first half.
5. Derrick was bad.
6. Carlino wasn't much better
7. Nor Steve.
8. The man-to-man looked completely different with a mobile 6'11 guy back there. Love having options on defense. This team will need both.
9. Going to have to get minutes from everybody. I personally get uncomfortable when guys go much past the 32 mark. Yes, it is arbitrary, but usually you see guys start to tire around that point. You might have noticed that late run. Tired everything and everybody.
10. I am not seeing a difference between practicing FT's and not practicing FT's. Maybe is is just me.
11. There is certainly potential and hope. Need to work out the rotations and get consistent effort from everybody.
12. Nice to see the return of transition scoring.
13. Need to finish strong. Tonight was poor. Learn from it.
14. Good win. Lots of things to celebrate, lots of things to work on.
Everything is spot on.
In the first half we saw some of the five (JJJ #5)and dime (Anderson #10) show I was expecting to see last year. Of course JJJ is now #23,
Cohen needs to play just for rest for the other guys. But coming in and shooting the first 3 you see and then committing a foul after the miss is not the way to get more minutes. JJJ played D tonight. His minutes went up. Remarkable correlation.
Yes, Luke opened up everything and total different ballgame.
Three point defense was real bad. Plus, ASU made a bunch of the old fashioned ones, a lot.
FTs, well that was a surprise since Du Wilson was like over 80%, strange.
7 man rotation. What happened to Cohen? Juan was gassed bad at end, needed a break.
Quote from: brandx on December 16, 2014, 10:04:57 PM
JJJ played excellent defense tonite. With his offensive skills, that is the ticket to 30-plus minutes.
? JJJ was certainly not excellent on D. His weak side help D and D on back door cuts were as brutal as ever. Steals I'll give you. If you get a chance watch him around 11:30 in the 2nd half--he was lost.
MU played a great 1st half.
MU played a mediocre to bad second half.
Need to get guys more rest.
Quote from: nyg on December 16, 2014, 10:10:33 PM
Yes, Luke opened up everything and total different ballgame.
Three point defense was real bad. Plus, ASU made a bunch of the old fashioned ones, a lot.
FTs, well that was a surprise since Du Wilson was like over 80%, strange.
7 man rotation. What happened to Cohen? Juan was gassed bad at end, needed a break.
I did not think the three point D was that bad. They shot 38%, a few coming in the last minute or so when the guys were gassed.
Cohen was planted on the bench for a quick three followed by a foul.
Quote from: tower912 on December 16, 2014, 10:02:30 PM
1. Luke Fischer was a man.
2. So was Duane Wilson
3. And then JJJ. Big night for the sophomores.
4. Juan was the unsung hero. Absolutely huge in the first half.
5. Derrick was bad.
6. Carlino wasn't much better
7. Nor Steve.
8. The man-to-man looked completely different with a mobile 6'11 guy back there. Love having options on defense. This team will need both.
9. Going to have to get minutes from everybody. I personally get uncomfortable when guys go much past the 32 mark. Yes, it is arbitrary, but usually you see guys start to tire around that point. You might have noticed that late run. Tired everything and everybody.
10. I am not seeing a difference between practicing FT's and not practicing FT's. Maybe is is just me.
11. There is certainly potential and hope. Need to work out the rotations and get consistent effort from everybody.
12. Nice to see the return of transition scoring.
13. Need to finish strong. Tonight was poor. Learn from it.
14. Good win. Lots of things to celebrate, lots of things to work on.
1. Very impressed with his defensive positioning (thanks Gardner and Otule during his year practicing against him last season).
2. Best player on Marquette this year and it's not even close
3. Where has he been? Perhaps he will have a Vander Blue style progression.
4. Could make the case that he had the best OVERALL impact on the floor this game.
5. Derrick is the same Derrick he's always been. Bad entry passes (it really hurt Gardner last season), half court offense stalls with his dribbling, same poor shooting. The difference is that we had multiple players tonight who played the game at a high level so the contrast is more than usual.
6. Agree, and thus lies the conundrum and why this team will be frustrating all season. Carlino, while a good FT shooter and obviously capable of helping offensively, is a mediocre dribbler and makes horrible decisions facing any full court pressure. Derrick, on the other hand is a very sure handed ball handler but you can't rely on him in the final minutes with a lead when the team is getting fouled.
7. Somewhat disagree, I think Steve and Juan will flip flop with who contributes depending on the matchups moving forward. ASU had more height that was somewhat slow footed which allowed Juan to blow by them in the half court. Against smaller athletic forwards where Juan's strengths are neutralized you may see Steve excel.
8. I disagree. Carlino was terrible. Derrick was average. JJJ was still average at best. The difference was not Fischer's movement, but rather his ability to alter shots when others were badly beaten and out of position.
9. I don't think fatigue was a factor. I think it was having Carlino receiving the inbound passes and subsequently making terrible decisions. Also, burning 28 seconds in the halfcourt has a negative effect on the offense IMO. I understand the rationale, but I think this game remains a victory by about 15 had we kept attacking.
10. Duane Wilson had a poor night at the stripe which drew the percentage down, but if you looked at every single shot he took they were all on line and almost everyone looked good leaving his hand. He's an excellent FT shooter with great form who had a bad night.
11. Yes, but living on the West coast and watching a lot of Pac 12 basketball I can tell you this was a poor performance from ASU. I still think a .500 record in conference is the most likely outcome.
12. Hate to say this, but Johnson having the game he had helped facilitate this because it ate into #12's minutes.
13. See my response to your number 6. I think Duane Wilson is the guy who needs to get the inbounds pass with Carlino getting the pass across halfcourt which ensures our two best FT shooters touch the ball (and limit Carlino fighting the press).
14. Agree.
Carlino was better than you think watch the game again good passes
and I think Deonte would really benefit from playing with Luke. Too bad
Quote from: patso on December 16, 2014, 10:54:29 PM
and I think Deonte would really benefit from playing with Luke. Too bad
Deonte saw Luke everyday in practice. He knew what Luke brought to the table.
Ok I get a little hyped after a good win
Quote from: patso on December 16, 2014, 10:59:02 PM
Ok I get a little hyped after a good win
Hey, that's a good thing.
77% of points (60/78) were scored by freshman or sophomores.
Kenpom we are up to 103, lets finish the non-con strong get ready for Big East
Great points Tower. I would add:
JjJ's defense looked much improved.
Carlino was TERRIBLE, I honestly think Derrick was better
Derrick's fear of the entry pass needs to disappear. Feed the Big Fisch!
Making FTs would have turned this one into a laugher
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 17, 2014, 12:03:32 AM
Great points Tower. I would add:
JjJ's defense looked much improved.
Carlino was TERRIBLE, I honestly think Derrick was better
Derrick's fear of the entry pass needs to disappear. Feed the Big Fisch!
Making FTs would have turned this one into a laugher
I stated earlier that JJJ looked much better on defense. Good to see others saw the same thing.
You are probably right about Carlino, but, when he is on the floor did you notice how spread out the ASU defense was? That Duane and JJJ were able to get in the lane at will? Juan was also able to drive into the middle several times. Carlino's man isn't going to sag into the lane.
At least for tonight, the theory that Luke would open things up for the other players was true. JJJ took advantage of the opportunity and demonstrated his considerable athletic talent. Duane also had lots of space to work and do his thing. My sense is Wojo was very deliberate about not hyping him. The kid has a complete set of skills and obviously our weight training program really helped him . The year off to practice against Davante and Chris also really refined his game.
Was a little disappointed that STjr didn't do much , but maybe that was to be expected given the occasion. We are going to need him to step up in the Big East. Juan continues to bring it hard on every play. He is the one player we can count on every game. Carlino showed us more of his ugly side than his good side tonight but he is enough of a threat to keep the defense from totally sagging on Luke. I was encourage to see Derrick down to 24 minutes, when we get him to 10-15 things will be optimal.
The huddle shots showed Wojo's intensity and focus. He is right we have to play hard every possession. That is what Big East games are all about.
We have to work on the finish. The guy who needs the ball at the end is Duane. I know he missed a few free throws tonight, but I attribute that more to him being overly excited. As most of the misses were long. His form was fine.
We have three games to practice and refine what we are doing with our new lineup. This team will be able to compete with anyone in the conference.
Quote from: patso on December 16, 2014, 10:52:50 PM
Carlino was better than you think watch the game again good passes
I thought he really forced shots that weren't there. He appeared frustrated by ASU's physical defense on him. Their coaching staff had scouted him well, they were screaming about the double screens, etc on D.
He didn't play in the flow of the game and threw the ball around a bit toward the end. Seems a little emotional...good and bad I guess.
At some point we will have to rely on Steve. There will be at least a few games this season when Luke is in foul trouble.
Let's hope we can build some leads against the supposed cupcakes in the next few games so that we can get some guys some rest before conference play starts.
Regarding 13. I hate the prevent defense/offense. I felt Wojo called off the dogs and ASU was closing the gap. I hope he learns that no lead is safe.
Even though guys were still getting beat on the perimeter, having a 6'11 player who clearly understands help defense and positioning made up for a lot of mistakes. I need to force myself to remember that it was one game and other teams are now going to start planning for him so they won't all be like this.
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 17, 2014, 01:07:39 AM
I thought he really forced shots that weren't there. He appeared frustrated by ASU's physical defense on him. Their coaching staff had scouted him well, they were screaming about the double screens, etc on D.
He didn't play in the flow of the game and threw the ball around a bit toward the end. Seems a little emotional...good and bad I guess.
Carlino can be a very good passer. He's got a ton of ability. He's just not the best of decision makers and that goes for shooting and passing. He had some really, really bad turnovers last night.
Another thing I didn't notice until checking the box score: Despite having a true rim protector in Jacobsen (2.2 bpg), Arizona State only managed one block. And that was from PG Chance Murray. I think we can credit that to great passing and Luke's ability to seal off defenders in the lane.
Quote from: tower912 on December 17, 2014, 06:18:16 AM
Even though guys were still getting beat on the perimeter, having a 6'11 player who clearly understands help defense and positioning made up for a lot of mistakes. I need to force myself to remember that it was one game and other teams are now going to start planning for him so they won't all be like this.
The nice thing with this team is there are a lot of guys you have to plan for, and now Luke is one just one more. After the Georgia Tech game teams probably started scouting Carlino, then after Tennessee they had to scout Duane, now Fisher and possibly JjJ. Of course it is always nice to have a stud to rely on game in and game out but until he arrives having one extra guy that has to be accounted for on the scouting report with the potential to go off is great.
JJJ looked a smidgen better on defense. Fischer made him look much better - was driven by a couple times only for the drive to be stopped by Fischer. Got to be nice not to have his confidence deflated by each instance of imperfect D resulting in an easy layup.
I have always known Du was quick, but last night he seemed to kick it into another gear on some of those breaks. Hope he stays four years.
5 turnovers in the final 2 minutes needs to get cleaned up. We can't do that against better teams. Fatigue? Maybe.
One Anderson made a great play where it looked like he was going to dribble down court, froze one of the defenders, and drilled a beautiful bounce pass to JJJ for a slam. Great use of "speed change"
A few thoughts:
1. Duane's quickness was remarkable, but I would've liked to see more of him breaking down the defense and then looking to pass rather than shoot. I think that will come with more experience.
2. While I understand that early Cohen's 3-pointer and then quick foul probably led to him sitting down and not getting much playing time, I wasn't so bothered by the shot. The team was on a bit of a run and it seemed like the energy was really building, so it seemed to me to be a 'team heat check'. It would've been better taken by someone else, I suppose, but if it had gone in, it would've been quite a hammer.
3. In another thread, someone mentioned the idea of playing Steve and Luke together more often. Like others, I worry about foul trouble too much for that to happen with much regularity. More importantly, I think Juan's quickness and passing make him a better one-two tandem with Luke. Or, at least it seemed to play out that way last night.
4. Juan still really reminds me of Joe Fulce.
Quote from: mug644 on December 17, 2014, 08:46:57 AM
A few thoughts:
1. Duane's quickness was remarkable, but I would've liked to see more of him breaking down the defense and then looking to pass rather than shoot. I think that will come with more experience.
2. While I understand that early Cohen's 3-pointer and then quick foul probably led to him sitting down and not getting much playing time, I wasn't so bothered by the shot. The team was on a bit of a run and it seemed like the energy was really building, so it seemed to me to be a 'team heat check'. It would've been better taken by someone else, I suppose, but if it had gone in, it would've been quite a hammer.
3. In another thread, someone mentioned the idea of playing Steve and Luke together more often. Like others, I worry about foul trouble too much for that to happen with much regularity. More importantly, I think Juan's quickness and passing make him a better one-two tandem with Luke. Or, at least it seemed to play out that way last night.
4. Juan still really reminds me of Joe Fulce.
Sorry, you are wrong in #1. He only shot 8 times. He consistently attacked the basket, which is breaking down their defense. He has the skill set and speed to break guys down with the dribble penetration--at least this type of team. He should be shooting more, not less. By comparison, JJJ shot twice as many shots.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 17, 2014, 08:52:44 AM
Sorry, you are wrong in #1. He only shot 8 times. He consistently attacked the basket, which is breaking down their defense. He has the skill set and speed to break guys down with the dribble penetration--at least this type of team. He should be shooting more, not less. By comparison, JJJ shot twice as many shots.
He really shot way more than 8 times. FGA aren't counted when you are fouled unless you make them. I too, would like to see him penetrate and dish more. I had that thought more after Wisconsin than ASU, but that is the next step in his development. He sure is fun to watch when he gets rolling.
Still worry about this team late in the game. Juan and Derrick are not the guys to handle the ball then, as they are not good FT shooters, and Juan did have a bad TO near the end. Kudos to Derrick as he did make 3-4 on FT's bringing his YTD FT% to 44%. Another 25-30% and it will be respectable.
But those two guys should not be the primary ball handlers late in the game because of their FT prowess. Wojo must correct that or it will be Hack a Derrick and Hack a Juan by opponents.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 17, 2014, 08:57:17 AM
Still worry about this team late in the game. Juan and Derrick are not the guys to handle the ball then, as they are not good FT shooters, and Juan did have a bad TO near the end. Kudos to Derrick as he did make 3-4 on FT's bringing his YTD FT% to 44%. Another 25-30% and it will be respectable.
But those two guys should not be the primary ball handlers late in the game because of their FT prowess. Wojo must correct that or it will be Hack a Derrick and Hack a Juan by opponents.
Think you are right here. Derrick's our least likely guy to turn it over, but the worst FT shooter, so bad that you really don't want him on the floor, except Carlino, JjJ and Duane are not secure with the ball to say the least.
Anyone else notice Wojo going with the two for one logic at the end of the first half again this game?
I know someone brought it up a couple weeks ago, but I turned to my buddy and mentioned I loved it in this game as well. Somewhere around 50-55 seconds left in the 1st half and Wojo calls the TO, sets up a play and Duane drives in the lane and really kinda forced it, but got it to go right away. I believe ASU came down and scored anyways, but we had the ball back and another chance to score.
Just appreciate the coaching philosophy there I guess.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 17, 2014, 08:52:44 AM
Sorry, you are wrong in #1. He only shot 8 times. He consistently attacked the basket, which is breaking down their defense. He has the skill set and speed to break guys down with the dribble penetration--at least this type of team. He should be shooting more, not less. By comparison, JJJ shot twice as many shots.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 17, 2014, 08:56:28 AM
He really shot way more than 8 times. FGA aren't counted when you are fouled unless you make them. I too, would like to see him penetrate and dish more. I had that thought more after Wisconsin than ASU, but that is the next step in his development. He sure is fun to watch when he gets rolling.
I think CTWarrior helps by pointing out that he did shot more than 8 times. Anyway, maybe I wasn't so clear in my articulation...my point is that I really liked his attacking and how he was able to break down the defense. But, once that happened, I felt like he was too inclined to immediately be looking to shoot. Frequently, it appeared that someone else's man, often Fischer's, came over to help, leaving Fischer open. That's when I was hoping that Duane would dump it off to Fischer rather than just got for the shot, though I can't deny getting to the line is a good thing--even better if he was hitting his free throws.
Quote from: brandx on December 17, 2014, 12:16:36 AM
I stated earlier that JJJ looked much better on defense. Good to see others saw the same thing.
You are probably right about Carlino, but, when he is on the floor did you notice how spread out the ASU defense was? That Duane and JJJ were able to get in the lane at will? Juan was also able to drive into the middle several times. Carlino's man isn't going to sag into the lane.
To be fair to Carlino, I did not. I think this is a good point that needs to be balanced against what, by my superficial viewing, looked like a pretty poor game.
Our guards shot 52% (17-33). Duane an JjJ alone shot 63% (15-24). Anyone know the last time our perimeter guys shot 50%+ against P6 competition?
Quote from: Strokin 3s on December 17, 2014, 09:04:53 AM
Anyone else notice Wojo going with the two for one logic at the end of the first half again this game?
I know someone brought it up a couple weeks ago, but I turned to my buddy and mentioned I loved it in this game as well. Somewhere around 50-55 seconds left in the 1st half and Wojo calls the TO, sets up a play and Duane drives in the lane and really kinda forced it, but got it to go right away. I believe ASU came down and scored anyways, but we had the ball back and another chance to score.
Just appreciate the coaching philosophy there I guess.
+1. Commented on that during the game to my son. Very heady basketball.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 17, 2014, 08:56:28 AM
He really shot way more than 8 times. FGA aren't counted when you are fouled unless you make them. I too, would like to see him penetrate and dish more. I had that thought more after Wisconsin than ASU, but that is the next step in his development. He sure is fun to watch when he gets rolling.
Right, they are not counted, so they are not shots. Still would rather him penetrating to the basket, because he has the speed and athletic ability to finish or dump off. Either way, good things will happen. Now, that may not work against good defending teams--don't think Az. State would fall in that category.
Quote from: jsglow on December 17, 2014, 08:14:36 AM
5 turnovers in the final 2 minutes needs to get cleaned up. We can't do that against better teams. Fatigue? Maybe.
I can't put not being able to break a press on fatigue. Just some bad decisions made.
Quote from: jsglow on December 17, 2014, 08:14:36 AM
5 turnovers in the final 2 minutes needs to get cleaned up. We can't do that against better teams. Fatigue? Maybe.
Talk about creating a narrative that doesn't exist and sticking to it. This is the fourth or fifth post I've read from you about minutes and fatigue since the game ended last night.
Marquette was coming off 10 days of rest. They were in cruise control for 33 minutes of this game. They got to the FT line early in both halves. ASU didn't play defense so exertion level on offense was less than it was against NJIT. There was not a thing about last night's match that would lead one to claim "fatigue" was a reason for any of MU's mistakes closing out the game.
Quote from: mug644 on December 17, 2014, 09:10:19 AM
I think CTWarrior helps by pointing out that he did shot more than 8 times. Anyway, maybe I wasn't so clear in my articulation...my point is that I really liked his attacking and how he was able to break down the defense. But, once that happened, I felt like he was too inclined to immediately be looking to shoot. Frequently, it appeared that someone else's man, often Fischer's, came over to help, leaving Fischer open. That's when I was hoping that Duane would dump it off to Fischer rather than just got for the shot, though I can't deny getting to the line is a good thing--even better if he was hitting his free throws.
I was unable to watch the first half, but caught the second and the highlights at the end, and I noticed several times Duane drove and then dropped a pretty pass to Fish for a dunk. Maybe there were some more opportunities for him to do so, but I loved seeing it happen when it did.
It made me think that Duane probably benefited a lot from playing with Diamond Stone in HS in that he has had many opportunities to drive and dish close to a big man for a finish.
Quote from: WarriorInNYC on December 17, 2014, 10:27:05 AM
I was unable to watch the first half, but caught the second and the highlights at the end, and I noticed several times Duane drove and then dropped a pretty pass to Fish for a dunk. Maybe there were some more opportunities for him to do so, but I loved seeing it happen when it did.
It made me think that Duane probably benefited a lot from playing with Diamond Stone in HS in that he has had many opportunities to drive and dish close to a big man for a finish.
Interesting thought. I don't think it hurt at all. Can we start to imagine next year with Duane, King Henry and Luke though? That is a TON of inside out options.
It's pretty clear that these guys need more practice on how to hold onto a 20 point lead for 13 minutes or more.
Quote from: WarriorFan on December 17, 2014, 01:07:56 PM
It's pretty clear that these guys need more practice on how to hold onto a 20 point lead for 13 minutes or more.
Yeah, that is practice I would love to see more of as well.
Just watching the highlight video - what really stood out to me was that almost all of Juan's seven assists made it. Very nice job of getting his teammates involved, setting up JJ and Fischer for their big games. Several in transition, but also a couple nice feeds in the half court.
Quote from: connie on December 17, 2014, 02:20:45 PM
Yeah, that is practice I would love to see more of as well.
Well done.