Lots here are tearing apart Burton's play this season. Was he as good as we all thought he'd be coming into this year? No. Dealing with a loss? Yes. New coaching staff/philosophy? Yes. Given choppy playing time that leads to choppy performance? Yes.
But let's look at his per 40 Numbers:
15.8ppg
47.2% FG shooting
76.5% FT shooting
40% 3 point shooting
57.8 % True Shooting percentage
2.74 Rebounds per 40 - not great - but he is only 6'3"
2.75 steals per 40 - 4.7% steal percentage = Top 50 of all college basketball players
You can compare those with Derrick Wilson's numbers and its a landslide as to how much of a better player he is/was - even though he's gotten trashed by many here.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&p1=2-deonte-burton
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 08:16:10 PM
Lots here are tearing apart Burton's play this season. Was he as good as we all thought he'd be coming into this year? No. Dealing with a loss? Yes. New coaching staff/philosophy? Yes. Given choppy playing time that leads to choppy performance? Yes.
But let's look at his per 40 Numbers:
15.8ppg
47.2% FG shooting
76.5% FT shooting
40% 3 point shooting
57.8 % True Shooting percentage
2.74 Rebounds per 40 - not great - but he is only 6'3"
2.75 steals per 40 - 4.7% steal percentage = Top 50 of all college basketball players
You can compare those with Derrick Wilson's numbers and its a landslide as to how much of a better player he is/was - even though he's gotten trashed by many here.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&p1=2-deonte-burton
STOP.
PLEASE.
Ners -
While like you, I am not one who believes a coach is infallible and I spent yesterday being frustrated with MU losing a better player than many want to admit, at this point we're 36 hours removed from the news of his transfer and it's probably best to move on.
Deonte Burton won't be wearing a Marquette jersey again.
It doesn't mean I think it's any better of a situation today than it was yesterday, but it's the situation moving forward.
Let it go. For your own sake.
You want to know why people wanted you to ban yourself? This is it. Right here. Starting a new thread on the same subject that you have already addressed repeatedly.
We get your point. You are not changing anyone's mind. All you are doing is pissing people off and forcing people to not take you seriously.
Do you really want that? Do you want to be known as a joke or a parody?
Loved Deonte. Wish he stayed. He did look totally lost on d, and looked like he was forcing some on offense.
Honestly, your best argument is that as long as we are going to be mediocre to bad this year we should get the younger guys as many minutes as we can. You keep picking a fight on the premise of x is better than y, when the people entrusted with the program don't agree.
Attention Scoop! Please be certain to include Derrick Wilson in all thread titles and posts from now on. I've hard that a poster's failure to do so could be cause for the ban hammer! I call for a poll on what to call Scoop from today forward. I vote for "MU Derrick Bashing Scoop"!
After all, every thread turns into that anyway, might as well cut to the chase.
Seriously. Haven't the mods threatened to ban you for not giving up on this crap? Enough is enough man
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 11, 2014, 08:25:28 PM
You want to know why people wanted you to ban yourself? This is it. Right here. Starting a new thread on the same subject that you have already addressed repeatedly.
We get your point. You are not changing anyone's mind. All you are doing is pissing people off and forcing people to not take you seriously.
Do you really want that? Do you want to be known as a joke or a parody?
Deonte's stats for the year had not been highlighted, pointed out in a clear space/place. He's been ripped pretty good by many here, and I found it interesting to review for how "bad/awful/lost" etc., he was, his numbers are pretty decent.
People may not like me here, but please, for the love of God - look at the above numbers and ask yourself: Just how God Awful was Deonte??
And for some to try to minimize his transfer as not being a very big deal? Come on. The guy had a very high ceiling and he decided it was best for him to move on than stay at MU under Wojo.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 08:35:19 PM
Deonte's stats for the year had not been highlighted, pointed out in a clear space/place. He's been ripped pretty good by many here, and I found it interesting to review for how "bad/awful/lost" etc., he was, his numbers are pretty decent.
People may not like me here, but please, for the love of God - look at the above numbers and ask yourself: Just how God Awful was Deonte??
And for some to try to minimize his transfer as not being a very big deal? Come on. The guy had a very high ceiling and he decided it was best for him to move on than stay at MU under Wojo.
Deonte isn't bad, but he is gone.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 08:35:19 PM
Deonte's stats for the year had not been highlighted, pointed out in a clear space/place. He's been ripped pretty good by many here, and I found it interesting to review for how "bad/awful/lost" etc., he was, his numbers are pretty decent.
People may not like me here, but please, for the love of God - look at the above numbers and ask yourself: Just how God Awful was Deonte??
And for some to try to minimize his transfer as not being a very big deal? Come on. The guy had a very high ceiling and he decided it was best for him to move on than stay at MU under Wojo.
YOU HAVE FINALLY CONVINCED ME!!!!
(http://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/beating-a-dead-horse.png)
No one, not one single person, compared Deonte to Derrick. Ever. Except you. Sure, some people may have responded to your comparison, seeing as how it's ridiculous. But no one ever said Derrick was better. Or that Deonte shouldn't be playing because of Derrick. Sometimes you're great, sometimes you're out of your mind.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 08:16:10 PM
Lots here are tearing apart Burton's play this season. Was he as good as we all thought he'd be coming into this year? No. Dealing with a loss? Yes. New coaching staff/philosophy? Yes. Given choppy playing time that leads to choppy performance? Yes.
But let's look at his per 40 Numbers:
15.8ppg
47.2% FG shooting
76.5% FT shooting
40% 3 point shooting
57.8 % True Shooting percentage
2.74 Rebounds per 40 - not great - but he is only 6'3"
2.75 steals per 40 - 4.7% steal percentage = Top 50 of all college basketball players
You can compare those with Derrick Wilson's numbers and its a landslide as to how much of a better player he is/was - even though he's gotten trashed by many here.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&p1=2-deonte-burton
Thanks for posting these stats. We lost a very high quality kid.
He started an entire poll about himself, saying he would "self ban" himself if the majority voted he should be banned. What were the results? A majority voted he should be banned. Did he go away? Well...
So, it was just for his own publicity. "Hey, look at me! I have an 8 page poll about myself!"
He said he would stop talking about the Derrick debate. Did he stop talking about the Derrick debate? Well...
We don't already have enough threads about this. Let's start another thread on it! "Hey guys, I wasn't getting enough attention on this board, so let me start another thread on a topic that has about 20 threads on it already!"
It is honestly sad. Makes this place truly hard to enjoy.
in corporate America there are two types that fail - 1) wrong gal/guy and 2) right gal/guy wrong position/time/situation. the later is what most rational folks who are not Wojo or Deante assume happened. it DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SOMEONE'S FAULT!!!!
Was every girlfriend you didn't marry bad? No, it just didn't work.
either accept that some situation just are not right and both parties are OK or ........sorry (seriously, i'm sorry for you that you view things this way)
I do not know why Derrick even comes into this discussion. There is no way Burton is a point guard, which is where Derrick getswmost of his time. Besides that numbers do not show everyting that a player means to the team.
Look, he has decided to move on. Let's do the following as good fans and good Catholic Christians:
1) Acknowledge the situation wasn't right
2) Wish Deonte well and hope his new situation is more suited to who and what he is.
3) Move on and expect our guys will fill the gaps, make the plays and show the world "We are Marquette!"
Here's the reality. Anyone over 30 years of age in this room probably has made a life decision they wish they hadn't. Heck, half the married couples in America find themselves in divorce. There's a reason for it folks and it isn't a value judgment that the plaintiff and defendant is or was bad. Same for jobs. Some people get excited, take a job and six months latter think, "what the h*ll did I do!" In short, there are points in our lives that no matter how well intentioned, were not right for us. Period. It doesn't mean we were bad. Rather, the situation wasn't right and it was time to move on.
Deonte was in the same boat. Leadership changed and his talents didn't fit the direction in which new leadership sought to take the team. If we look at the situation with the maturity of reason, Deonte isn't bad. There's just some place where he fits better than Marquette. if we condemn or ostracize him, we fail to see that we all have failings and need to extricate ourselves from sub-optimal situations.
Can we just kill this thread?
Please?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 11, 2014, 09:16:36 PM
He started an entire poll about himself, saying he would "self ban" himself if the majority voted he should be banned. What were the results? A majority voted he should be banned. Did he go away? Well...
So, it was just for his own publicity. "Hey, look at me! I have an 8 page poll about myself!"
He said he would stop talking about the Derrick debate. Did he stop talking about the Derrick debate? Well...
We don't already have enough threads about this. Let's start another thread on it! "Hey guys, I wasn't getting enough attention on this board, so let me start another thread on a topic that has about 20 threads on it already!"
It is honestly sad. Makes this place truly hard to enjoy.
Let's ALL just not reply to him at all. Ever.
Ners is just setting us all up in case he ever becomes a criminal defendant.
Is there ANYONE here who would wouldn't attest to the fact that he is completely, certifiably insane?
Well played, Ners.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 08:16:10 PM
Lots here are tearing apart Burton's play this season. Was he as good as we all thought he'd be coming into this year? No. Dealing with a loss? Yes. New coaching staff/philosophy? Yes. Given choppy playing time that leads to choppy performance? Yes.
But let's look at his per 40 Numbers:
Wow, this is really obnoxious.
Why did you leave out the 5 fouls per game, the 3.5 turnovers and the 0.2 Assist to turnover ratio.
Give 'em hell Ners!
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MakeItStop.gif)
Quote from: MURFC on December 11, 2014, 10:03:25 PM
Wow, this is really obnoxious.
It's kind of insane. So insane, I can only hope Ners has nothing better to do than push buttons for attention. I really hope Ners is that bored.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 08:16:10 PM
Lots here are tearing apart Burton's play this season. Was he as good as we all thought he'd be coming into this year? No. Dealing with a loss? Yes. New coaching staff/philosophy? Yes. Given choppy playing time that leads to choppy performance? Yes.
But let's look at his per 40 Numbers:
15.8ppg
47.2% FG shooting
76.5% FT shooting
40% 3 point shooting
57.8 % True Shooting percentage
2.74 Rebounds per 40 - not great - but he is only 6'3"
2.75 steals per 40 - 4.7% steal percentage = Top 50 of all college basketball players
You can compare those with Derrick Wilson's numbers and its a landslide as to how much of a better player he is/was - even though he's gotten trashed by many here.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&p1=2-deonte-burton
Gosh, you are really smart. Thank you for this really,really valuable new information.
Alright, I think I am finally on the annoyed side.
This was just another weird(and possibly sadistic) way to work in a Derrick jab.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 11, 2014, 11:26:03 PM
Alright, I think I am finally on the annoyed side.
This was just another weird(and possibly sadistic) way to work in a Derrick jab.
Sorry Hayward - It wasn't. I'm simply pointing out that Deonte was somewhat maligned for his performance this year, and when you look at it - the numbers are pretty solid. And, given that we have two good ball handlers in both Duane and Carlino - it seems a case legitimately could have been made for playing Burton over Derrick, particularly since we evolved into a zone team. Nothing more to it.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 11:37:24 PM
Sorry Hayward - It wasn't. I'm simply pointing out that Deonte was somewhat maligned for his performance this year, and when you look at it - the numbers are pretty solid. And, given that we have two good ball handlers in both Duane and Carlino - it seems a case legitimately could have been made for playing Burton over Derrick, particularly since we evolved into a zone team. Nothing more to it.
Too bad Wojo wants 3 guards on the floor.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 12, 2014, 12:02:43 AM
Too bad Wojo wants 3 guards on the floor.
Does Wojo have any other choice this year?
Quote from: mattyv1908 on December 12, 2014, 12:05:33 AM
Does Wojo have any other choice this year?
Don't respond to him on this subject!!!!! You may as well just ask him to start another thread on the SAME SUBJECT. And another. And another.
We need to get to the point where if he wants to talk to someone about this - he needs to stand in front of a mirror.
He is destroying this board!!!!!
Quote from: mattyv1908 on December 12, 2014, 12:05:33 AM
Does Wojo have any other choice this year?
I don't believe so, no. But isn't that the whole point in this silly, illogical Deonte-for-Derrick debate?
I keep thinking I'm going to turn on the news some day and see Ners protesting in the streets against Derrick Wilson's playing time.
Quote from: WolverineWarrior85 on December 12, 2014, 06:07:08 AM
I keep thinking I'm going to turn on the news some day and see Ners protesting in the streets against Derrick Wilson's playing time.
Wearing a t-shirt saying "I can't stop posting the same damn thing."
Quote from: brandx on December 12, 2014, 12:11:40 AM
Don't respond to him on this subject!!!!! You may as well just ask him to start another thread on the SAME SUBJECT. And another. And another.
We need to get to the point where if he wants to talk to someone about this - he needs to stand in front of a mirror.
He is destroying this board!!!!!
I don't think he's destroying the board because I still find other stuff worth reading. But otherwise I'm with you.
I successfully gave myself a Derrick Moratorium for more than a month last year. And since Ners can't do the same for himself, despite multiple promises that he would, I am hereby giving myself a Ners Moratorium.
The crazy thing about this for me is that I agree with his basic premise. I just don't need to agree with it a 9,533rd time.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on December 11, 2014, 10:39:39 PM
It's kind of insane. So insane, I can only hope Ners has nothing better to do than push buttons for attention. I really hope Ners is that bored.
It does seem to be some kind of pathology, doesn't it? If not, he is just REALLY bored and REALLY good at pushing buttons!
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2014, 07:15:16 AM
I don't think he's destroying the board because I still find other stuff worth reading. But otherwise I'm with you.
I successfully gave myself a Derrick Moratorium for more than a month last year. And since Ners can't do the same for himself, despite multiple promises that he would, I am hereby giving myself a Ners Moratorium.
The crazy thing about this for me is that I agree with his basic premise. I just don't need to agree with it a 9,533rd time.
For everyone complaining about Ners, why not simply put him on ignore? No snark here, it's a genuine question, as I have never put anyone on ignore. Is putting someone on ignore not sufficient to avoid that person?
I do put people on ignore. I had Ners on ignore from early January until Buzz left last season. Chico is on a week-to-week basis. I took him off ignore to see how he would defend Crean from all of the player issues at IU, but he chose prudence and said nothing. The 'problem' with ignore is that so many people will quote a post that they are responding to that you end up seeing 3/4 of the stuff anyway.
Quote from: Eldon on December 12, 2014, 07:31:12 AM
For everyone complaining about Ners, why not simply put him on ignore? No snark here, it's a genuine question, as I have never put anyone on ignore. Is putting someone on ignore not sufficient to avoid that person?
It's done.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2014, 07:15:16 AM
The crazy thing about this for me is that I agree with his basic premise. I just don't need to agree with it a 9,533rd time.
I'm with you MU82. I was all in with Ners since the Ohio State game last year, but I tired of the subject long before the end of last season and you're not going to change anyone's mind anyway, so just bringing it up over and over and over again is just pointless and tedious.
I have never put anyone on ignore and I do not plan on ever doing it.
However, why does anyone think Burton, a quitter should be compared to Derrick, who I doubt would quit in any circumstance. I will take the less talented player who gives 100% everyday versus the player who quits when life gets tough.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 11, 2014, 11:37:24 PM
Sorry Hayward - It wasn't. I'm simply pointing out that Deonte was somewhat maligned for his performance this year, and when you look at it - the numbers are pretty solid. And, given that we have two good ball handlers in both Duane and Carlino - it seems a case legitimately could have been made for playing Burton over Derrick, particularly since we evolved into a zone team. Nothing more to it.
The point is that you have said the same damn things literally hundreds if not thousands of times.
Look, I went on a Derrick Moratorium on Tuesday along with you. I have stuck with it. You haven't.
And since the mods don't seem interested in following through with what they said earlier I am simply not going to acknowledge for awhile. Ners Moratorium it is.
Ban.
The stats Ners gave are good, but we need some context here as well.
Per 40, Deonte is avg:
3.4 reb (Jake Thomas esque)
5 personal fouls
3.4 TOs
.6 ast (Ousmane Barro-esque)
Now, I cherry pick these stats for this reason:
I suspect that that Deonte is not over matched physically, but rather mentally this season. He seems to be in the wrong places on the court, and then improvises outside of the team concept.
He's not rebounding at an acceptable rate, he fouls too often because he is out of position, he turns the ball over because he doesn't understand where/when to be aggressive, and his assist rate is atrocious (likely because he's not executing the offensive concepts, and because he loves to shoot).
I LOVE Deonte. He's my favorite player. But, he's young, and his game is flawed right now. That's why his minutes are limited.
I wish him and his family the best. I think he's going to be a really good player as he matures.
*Oh, and I absolutely acknowledge that Wojo might have made mistakes in this situation. I'm just not going to lay all of the blame on his rotations.
Quote from: Canned Goods n Ammo on December 12, 2014, 09:07:49 AM
The stats Ners gave are good, but we need some context here as well.
Per 40, Deonte is avg:
3.4 reb (Jake Thomas esque)
5 personal fouls
3.4 TOs
.6 ast (Ousmane Barro-esque)
Now, I cherry pick these stats for this reason:
I suspect that that Deonte is not over matched physically, but rather mentally this season. He seems to be in the wrong places on the court, and then improvises outside of the team concept.
He's not rebounding at an acceptable rate, he fouls too often because he is out of position, he turns the ball over because he doesn't understand where/when to be aggressive, and his assist rate is atrocious (likely because he's not executing the offensive concepts, and because he loves to shoot).
I LOVE Deonte. He's my favorite player. But, he's young, and his game is flawed right now. That's why his minutes are limited.
I wish him and his family the best. I think he's going to be a really good player as he matures.
Enabler!
I kinda like this thread, actually. To watch this many people be irritated at the same time by the same person is rather impressive.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 11, 2014, 11:26:03 PM
This was just another weird(and possibly sadistic) way to work in a Derrick jab.
I think the surface has barely been scratched. He could come up with all sorts of creative ways to work in a "Derrick jab."
"I read in the news today that falling oil prices is beginning to hurt the market for derricks. Speaking of which, Derrick Wilson doesn't drill enough 3 pointers . . . ."
Or "I was watching some reruns of Home Improvement and realized that Wilson character never shows his face. Which reminds me, I don't understand why Wojo still allows Derrick Wilson to show his face . . . ."
This is going to get worse before it gets better.
Just ban the guy already. We already had the vote.
Quote from: Eldon on December 12, 2014, 07:31:12 AM
Is putting someone on ignore not sufficient to avoid that person?
You would think so. I put Ners on ignore yesterday, but because he posts so frequently on the same issues that piss people off, people quote him -- and that cannot be IGNORED/HIDDEN. He is literally a one-man wrecking crew. Please don't feed the animals.
I don't like banning people. They have the right to their opinion, but how many times can you beat a dead horse. Perhaps the mods could nail him to the bench for a month.
Quote from: MDMU04 on December 12, 2014, 09:17:45 AM
I kinda like this thread, actually. To watch this many people be irritated at the same time by the same person is rather impressive.
I'm not irritated at all.
Not even sure which person you're referring to - ha!
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on December 12, 2014, 09:31:30 AM
You would think so. I put Ners on ignore yesterday, but because he posts so frequently on the same issues that piss people off, people quote him -- and that cannot be IGNORED/HIDDEN. He is literally a one-man wrecking crew. Please don't feed the animals.
Exactly. Ignoring him becomes pointless because every post of his gets quoted.
Nerds is being himself again, but there is no doubt: Deonte is legit. Tremendous & painful loss.
Wouldn't mind Wojo tryin to holla at Caleb Swanigan...
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 12, 2014, 11:13:42 AM
Nerds is being himself again, but there is no doubt: Deonte is legit. Tremendous & painful loss.
Wouldn't mind Wojo tryin to holla at Caleb Swanigan...
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/657556_o.gif)
Clearly Burton did not fit into Coach Wojo's system. Bye bye and good luck to him
My question is will Deonte be a junior when he becomes eligible to play again?
Quote from: ThatDude on December 12, 2014, 11:54:52 AM
My question is will Deonte be a junior when he becomes eligible to play again?
He will have 1.5 years remaining if he transfers now and picks up after the first semester ends at his new school.
He will have 2.0 years remaining if he transfers now, and redshirts the 2015-16 season. You can't split a redshirt over two seasons.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 12, 2014, 11:13:42 AM
Nerds is being himself again, but there is no doubt: Deonte is legit. Tremendous & painful loss.
Wouldn't mind Wojo tryin to holla at Caleb Swanigan...
Duke is in the mix right now.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 12, 2014, 11:13:42 AM
Nerds is being himself again, but there is no doubt: Deonte is legit. Tremendous & painful loss.
Wouldn't mind Wojo tryin to holla at Caleb Swanigan...
Steal two recruits from Izzo? Count me in.
Quote from: Loose Ellenson Cannon on December 12, 2014, 12:08:50 PM
Duke is in the mix right now.
Maybe Coach K is just tugging at his ears in order to tell him how great Coach Wojo is, like he did with Hank :D
Quote from: wadesworld on December 12, 2014, 12:33:16 PM
Maybe Coach K is just tugging at his ears in order to tell him how great Coach Wojo is, like he did with Hank :D
I like the way you think.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 12, 2014, 12:02:46 PM
He will have 1.5 years remaining if he transfers now and picks up after the first semester ends at his new school.
He will have 2.0 years remaining if he transfers now, and redshirts the 2015-16 season. You can't split a redshirt over two seasons.
You can red-shirt without a legitimate injury? Isn't red-shirt status litigated if that is the right word?
Don't they look into that?
Quote from: ThatDude on December 12, 2014, 11:52:23 AM
Clearly Burton did not fit into Coach Wojo's system. Bye bye and good luck to him
What do you mean "Coach Wojo's system?" Coach Wojo does not have a sytem....yet. This is not the Pro's!
That is my problem with the whole thing. What system? He needed to grow as a coach and . . . ADAPT.
What system? If he had that type of deal then he should have told these guys that before when he first got here.
Nothing should have been established until they had Fischer back to see what they have with everyone playing close to their natural spots.
You can't implement a system in 7 games....I'm sorry. Kevin Ollie did but he was at UConn already before he took over for Calhoun.
You are not going to find out if he does not play. And you have these coaches who say, "well he did not show me this or that in practice."
Practice is not games...some coaches think it is. It's not. In 7 games you are not going to have 12 Wojo's running around. That takes time.
Wrong move.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on December 13, 2014, 10:01:29 AM
What do you mean "Coach Wojo's system?" Coach Wojo does not have a sytem....yet. This is not the Pro's!
That is my problem with the whole thing. What system? He needed to grow as a coach and . . . ADAPT.
What system? If he had that type of deal then he should have told these guys that before when he first got here.
Nothing should have been established until they had Fischer back to see what they have with everyone playing close to their natural spots.
You can't implement a system in 7 games....I'm sorry. Kevin Ollie did but he was at UConn already before he took over for Calhoun.
You are not going to find out if he does not play. And you have these coaches who say, "well he did not show me this or that in practice."
Practice is not games...some coaches think it is. It's not. In 7 games you are not going to have 12 Wojo's running around. That takes time.
Wrong move.
What "move" did wojo make? How are you able to determine if wojo didn't do everything in his power to keep burton?
I of course do not know what went on, but Wojo has repeatedly said he only wants players that want to play for MU. Given that, he may of not tried to talk Burton out of transferring.