MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Dish on November 19, 2007, 03:35:08 PM

Title: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Dish on November 19, 2007, 03:35:08 PM
Shoots an awful, 2-16 from beyond the arc.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2007, 03:36:30 PM
We get the late game tomorrow - that's the most important part.  Whew.

30 fast break points?  Cool. 
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2007, 03:39:30 PM
Boxscore here

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=273232124
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Dish on November 19, 2007, 03:40:09 PM
I'm hoping maybe the 9:30 am local time start was a big contribution to our shooting woes today. Agreed that the late game start tomorrow is going to be a benefit.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: mumike22 on November 19, 2007, 03:41:42 PM
any ideas as to why mcneal didnt start?
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2007, 03:42:06 PM
Oh - I just meant we get the late game - as in - the semifinal playing for the championship.

But yes, a later start time may help the team too.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Knights04 on November 19, 2007, 03:42:41 PM
I believe the starters are listed incorrectly in the box score as jerel got the start and dwight and lazar started as well.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Ahoya06 on November 19, 2007, 03:50:44 PM
Yeah, Jerel did start. Classic MU playing to the level of their opponents, had me nervous at the end, when the neutral fans started getting loud for the upset...

Hopefully we'll turn it around tomorrow!
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: murocky01 on November 19, 2007, 03:51:07 PM
Good game for McNeal, although he missed some big free throws (front end of a 1 and 1 when we were only up by a few points). Hayward looks strong again too, but needs to stay in the key (took a really bad 3-pointer from waaaay downtown).  

I was very disappointed with Fitzgerald, he played some really bad defense and I don't think he even attempted a shot.  We need his shooting touch in these games where we struggle from the perimeter.  

I agreed with the announcers that James needs to focus on the mid-range shot instead of forcing 3-pointers when they are not falling for him.

I didn't think that we would blow Chaminade out, since we played at 9:30am and they had a solid fan base supporting their team.  Hopefully we can come out and play a better game tomorrow.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: spiral97 on November 19, 2007, 03:51:15 PM
how's that for a birthday present muarmy? :)
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: downtown85 on November 19, 2007, 03:53:09 PM
Kolaric beasted us.  19 points, 14 rebounds.  How many times will the opposing team's go-to big man have games like that this year?
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: spiral97 on November 19, 2007, 03:56:36 PM
probably frequently... but I expect that.. I just expect that we hold the rest of the opponent's team down to sub-par performances and counter with our own excellent performances by our guards.. that's the part that's got me queasy.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: drewm88 on November 19, 2007, 03:59:06 PM
Not sure exactly what you mean by the later game tomorrow, but we have the 6:00 central game, which is the earlier of the 2 semis.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: muwarrior87 on November 19, 2007, 03:59:20 PM
They dominated on the glass.  Cubillan was our only player to hit a 3.  We still do not move the ball well enough against a zone. They had us in a zone of one form or another almost the whole game and we dribbled way too much. Lazar did a good job around the free throw line to break it down and moved the ball very well.  Our guards did little to try and break down the zone, settling for swinging the ball around the arc or trying to drive and then dump to Ous on a couple of occasions when he was standing right next to them.  We still need to move the ball better and get it in and out but I'm happy with the W.  Let's play to the level Jay Bilas thinks we can these next two games.

On a few occasions Bilas said that if our shot selection was as good as our intensity, we would be unstoppable.  I would tend to agree as long as those shots we select actually find the bottom of the net.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: spiral97 on November 19, 2007, 04:01:28 PM
Quote from: drewm88 on November 19, 2007, 03:59:06 PM
Not sure exactly what you mean by the later game tomorrow, but we have the 6:00 central game, which is the earlier of the 2 semis.

but later than:
a.) today's game
b.) the loser semi's
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: drewm88 on November 19, 2007, 04:07:08 PM
Gotcha. I figured that was the intended meaning, but better safe than sorry to make sure everyone's tuning in!
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: CWSKeith on November 19, 2007, 04:10:30 PM
I'm rather tired of the drooling over our defense.  Yes, we get a lot of steals, but we're also a team that's waaaaay too overaggressive and, making matters worse, a team that doesn't rebound extremely well.  We just gave up 60+ points to a D2 team -- that's not a strong defensive effort, regardless of how many turnovers we had.

Also, when is Matthews going to get going?  It seems like several times a game, he has an untimely 'slip' on the floor or a fumble of the basketball.  He looks good on the defensive end, but I keep waiting for him to have that breakout game where he takes control.  I can't be the only one, right?  I don't mean to single him out -- he wasn't the only one who couldn't do a whole lot offensively -- but it's getting frustrating. 

Today was extremely dissappointing and rather embarrassing.  Maybe I'm overreacting but I fear tomorrow's matchup. 
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 19, 2007, 04:17:44 PM
I agree with you regarding our defense. We reward deflections way too much and the gambling style creates far too many easy baskets for the opposition.

Matthews is somebody that looks like a basketball player, but he has never proven to be the player that he was billed to be. He hasn't done much of anything in our first three games and has rarely, if ever, stood out like McNeal did in today's second half.

This idea that we have a "Big Three" is completely misguided. As some discussed on the chat during the game, Hayward appears to be one of our best offensive players, but he doesn't have the slack that the three juniors have -- for whatever reason. And frankly, if James doesn't pick it up he should be benched. We can't have a point guard that throws up airballs from 3 and is afraid to go to the basket because he doesn't want to shoot free throws. I think Crean is slightly wary of James sulking and sticks with him longer than he should.

Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: muwarrior87 on November 19, 2007, 04:29:16 PM
In game's like today, I would have no problem seeing James play less minutes. We were up against a zone and he does way too much dribbling and shoots way too low a percentage to be effective.  These are the types of games where Lazar can be our best player. He works well on offense against zones and is a solid defender. 

I did like that late in the game on one of the breakaways, McNeal took it right to the basket even though it looked like James was eying up receiving and alley-oop.  Jerel played solidly and shot a high percentage. James played fairly well on defense but took some bad shots.  He had a couple good looks from around the freethrow line and from 12-15 feet is his range right now.  He's not going to be a high percentage perimeter shooter and until he starts making those kind of shots consistently in practice, I would like to see him drive and dish before trying to get separation off the dribble and throwing up an arrant shot.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: 77ncaachamps on November 19, 2007, 04:38:06 PM
Some observations:

1) We can't move the ball against a zone because no one has the confidence to make a shot.
2) Crean must entertain the idea of benching DJ at some point. The offense was more effective with Cubillan in.
3) DJ's not going anywhere after this year: his shot hasn't improved, he still dribbles in place...if someone doesn't transfer, we're in another scholly logjam.
4) Hayward is still fighting through the bumps of a 2nd year and later jump in his first year, but he's showing more tenacity and shot than Wes did (at this stage of his game).
5) I love Acker, but the offensive and defensive sets sometimes made him seem out of place. At one point, I think he had Derrick Johnson to guard!
6) We will get outrebounded in every other Big East game and that's not a good sign. Trevor's injury, Saunders not on the team, slow development of the post players and the absence of a good frontcourt coach (since Dwayne Stephens), really have hurt MU up front. I feel like it's going to be a long season on the glass...
7) Really disappointed in Fitz's play. Keeping him on the bench is not going to up his confidence, but having him out on the floor is not the ideal situation either. So what do you do with him?
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2007, 04:39:27 PM
Quote from: drewm88 on November 19, 2007, 03:59:06 PM
Not sure exactly what you mean by the later game tomorrow, but we have the 6:00 central game, which is the earlier of the 2 semis.

Right.  We have the 6pm game.  Out of our game, we had the chance at 11:30am (play for 5th place), or 6pm (play for champ).  I was happy with the 6pm game :)

Here's the complete bracket.
http://www.mauiinvitational.com/bracket/index.asp
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: downtown85 on November 19, 2007, 04:42:49 PM
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on November 19, 2007, 04:38:06 PM
Some observations:

1) We can't move the ball against a zone because no one has the confidence to make a shot.
2) Crean must entertain the idea of benching DJ at some point. The offense was more effective with Cubillan in.
3) DJ's not going anywhere after this year: his shot hasn't improved, he still dribbles in place...if someone doesn't transfer, we're in another scholly logjam.
4) Hayward is still fighting through the bumps of a 2nd year and later jump in his first year, but he's showing more tenacity and shot than Wes did (at this stage of his game).
5) I love Acker, but the offensive and defensive sets sometimes made him seem out of place. At one point, I think he had Derrick Johnson to guard!
6) We will get outrebounded in every other Big East game and that's not a good sign. Trevor's injury, Saunders not on the team, slow development of the post players and the absence of a good frontcourt coach (since Dwayne Stephens), really have hurt MU up front. I feel like it's going to be a long season on the glass...
7) Really disappointed in Fitz's play. Keeping him on the bench is not going to up his confidence, but having him out on the floor is not the ideal situation either. So what do you do with him?

Regarding DJ, I predict he is gone to Europe next year after graduating in 3 years from MU.  If he wants to stay, let him pay (tuition that is).

Regarding Fitz, can we trade him to Duquesne for Saunders?
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: tower912 on November 19, 2007, 04:44:24 PM
Every single 3 pt shot in the second half, the shooter looked like he was trying to steer/will it in.   We were getting good looks and taking the shots in rhythm, but the shooters all looked like they were hitching because they weren't confident.    Ooze cannot guard anyone off of the dribble.   DJ looked really good when he penetrated from the wing to the FT line.   Fitz was on the floor but his game was still in Milwaukee.   Nice to see Blackledge.
Title: LSU or Oklahoma State...
Post by: Thomas' Danish Delight on November 19, 2007, 04:54:22 PM
Either way, Marquette basketball is in trouble tomorrow. 

In all our games, including most of the exhibition game, we've only managed to "hang on" or "outlast" our opponents...and no one's ever heard of any of them!  They have had intangibles and fundamental skills and all that, but tomorrow we will have to against that AND athleticism.

We will have a big test tomorrow with either LSU or Oklahoma St, and we need to stop this playing down to our competition crap.  We need to play solid, consistent basketball, whether it's Chaminade, Utah Valley State, or frickin NCAA National Champs.

Title: Re: LSU or Oklahoma State...
Post by: 🏀 on November 19, 2007, 04:55:57 PM
Quote from: MUMotivAsian on November 19, 2007, 04:54:22 PM
Either way, Marquette basketball is in trouble tomorrow. 

In all our games, including most of the exhibition game, we've only managed to "hang on" or "outlast" our opponents...and no one's ever heard of any of them!  They have had intangibles and fundamental skills and all that, but tomorrow we will have to against that AND athleticism.

We will have a big test tomorrow with either LSU or Oklahoma St, and we need to stop this playing down to our competition crap.  We need to play solid, consistent basketball, whether it's Chaminade, Utah Valley State, or frickin NCAA National Champs.



Same could have been said last year. Actually it was said last year.
Title: Re: LSU or Oklahoma State...
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2007, 04:57:03 PM
Quote from: MUMotivAsian on November 19, 2007, 04:54:22 PM
Either way, Marquette basketball is in trouble tomorrow. 

See this thread:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=4564

I'm not saying we're in awesome shape.  But just about every year we beat this "small" teams by only like 10 pts, and end up doing ok.  Since this is the same team that did "ok" last year, I'm not going to forecast trouble yet.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Niv Berkowitz on November 19, 2007, 05:03:34 PM
Just a couple quick points:
Title: Re: LSU or Oklahoma State...
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2007, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: marqptm on November 19, 2007, 04:55:57 PM
Same could have been said last year. Actually it was said last year.

Ahhh yes, and thanks to the MUScoop time machine, here are some threads after the Idaho State game last year

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=235.0

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=248.0

I might note, that in the second game of that tourney, we crushed Detroit 87-45 (http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/detroit_11_14_06) :)
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Thomas' Danish Delight on November 19, 2007, 05:06:42 PM
Ahh...cool, thanks rocky for the history lesson.

I just dislike the suspense though, dernit!

I want us to DESTROY the competition day in and day out...make fools look goofy.  But word, a W's a W, even if it's Weak.  ;D
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: muwarrior87 on November 19, 2007, 05:46:23 PM
01 JAMES, Dominic...... g FG 4-12, 3-PT  0-4, FT 3-4, Rebounds 0, PF 1, PTS 11, Assists 2, TO 0, St 3, Min 28

That line makes me sick.  if the shots aren't falling, he needs to pass. there is no reason for him to throw up 12 field goal attempts in a game where Jerel and Lazar both shoot over 50% and Cubillan is also having a solid game.  He was in the game with all three of those players on a couple occasions did not pass the ball off with consistency.  2 assists is pathetic. other than that, great game from McNeal and Hayward.  Matthews needs to bring his offensive game out soon. Another solid effort by Cubillan and decent work by Burke as well in limited time.

I really hope we can get a solid lead in one of the next few games so Blackledge and Hazel can get a few more minutes.  I liked Blackledge coming in early but wished Crean would have given him some minutes in the second half as well.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Doctor V on November 19, 2007, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: muwarrior87 on November 19, 2007, 05:46:23 PM
01 JAMES, Dominic...... g FG 4-12, 3-PT  0-4, FT 3-4, Rebounds 0, PF 1, PTS 11, Assists 2, TO 0, St 3, Min 28

That line makes me sick.  if the shots aren't falling, he needs to pass. there is no reason for him to throw up 12 field goal attempts in a game where Jerel and Lazar both shoot over 50% and Cubillan is also having a solid game.  He was in the game with all three of those players on a couple occasions did not pass the ball off with consistency.  2 assists is pathetic. other than that, great game from McNeal and Hayward.  Matthews needs to bring his offensive game out soon. Another solid effort by Cubillan and decent work by Burke as well in limited time.

I wanna preface by saying 1-i  had a patient so i didnt see the game, 2- i agree that james needs to play better. However, seems as if he is becoming once again the easy scapegoat for alot of people. This team has 3 or 4 pgs right now and james doesnt get to run the team the way he can, hence the few amt of assists. He rarely turns the ball over and he is averaging 3 steals/game and played good defense, atleast in the first 2 games. His shot selection was also better in the first 2, and some of his misses are because he often has to take the bail out buzzer beaters. He is shooting above 80% from the line so that has improved. I think he needs to be given the freedom he was given as a freshman- the ability to drive freely with the decision of pass/shoot. He should be the pg, along with cubillan off the bench. Only when teams start to send 2 guys at him will this team improve, because no matter what anyone says he is an excellent passer and makes good decisions in the lane.
Also, he seems to be getting more blame than others struggling, such as matthews, fitz, barro- 3 starters from last yr who are playing worse.

PS- we can criticize and discuss, but it would be nice if we waited atleast for a loss to doom this team. trust me, dj and matthews wont continue to play poorly forever. neither will fitz and barro


I really hope we can get a solid lead in one of the next few games so Blackledge and Hazel can get a few more minutes.  I liked Blackledge coming in early but wished Crean would have given him some minutes in the second half as well.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2007, 07:07:07 PM
Quote from: MUMotivAsian on November 19, 2007, 05:06:42 PM
Ahh...cool, thanks rocky for the history lesson.

I just dislike the suspense though, dernit!

I want us to DESTROY the competition day in and day out...make fools look goofy.  But word, a W's a W, even if it's Weak.  ;D

We aren't that kind of team.  I don't think we will blow out anyone this year, just as I don't think we will be blown out by anyone.  We just aren't that type of team.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2007, 07:08:10 PM
Quote from: muwarrior87 on November 19, 2007, 05:46:23 PM
01 JAMES, Dominic...... g FG 4-12, 3-PT  0-4, FT 3-4, Rebounds 0, PF 1, PTS 11, Assists 2, TO 0, St 3, Min 28

That line makes me sick.  if the shots aren't falling, he needs to pass. there is no reason for him to throw up 12 field goal attempts in a game where Jerel and Lazar both shoot over 50% and Cubillan is also having a solid game.  He was in the game with all three of those players on a couple occasions did not pass the ball off with consistency.  2 assists is pathetic. other than that, great game from McNeal and Hayward.  Matthews needs to bring his offensive game out soon.

Assists are hard to come by when your teammates don't make shots. 
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: SoCalwarrior on November 19, 2007, 07:13:15 PM
Do you really think that's the reason James isn't getting assists?  I think anyone who watches him play knows that's not true.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: muhoosier260 on November 19, 2007, 07:15:55 PM
i realize the assist issue isn't entirely james' fault, w/no one making the long ball, but what about interior passing? MU had 6 assists, in the entire game. Thats absolutely unacceptable. That means that there's too much one on one going on= bad offense
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2007, 07:24:01 PM
Quote from: SoCalwarrior on November 19, 2007, 07:13:15 PM
Do you really think that's the reason James isn't getting assists?  I think anyone who watches him play knows that's not true.

I think James would get more assists if his teammates could make shots....but to your point, no it's not the only reason.

I thought he only took 1 or 2 bad shots today, he had open looks, weren't forced, etc.

As a team we had less than 10 assists and so did the opponents...not a good shooting display by either team.  It's one of those stats that needs a successful FG% to add up.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: Pardner on November 19, 2007, 07:29:37 PM
Didn't see the game today...but couple of stats popped out.  

~We had 14 steals...so far we are averaging 10 a game.
~19 TO's forced today...opponents averaging 17/game.
~For the second game in a row we gave up 16 offensive rebounds....averaging 12 a game given up.

So, we will live or die with our sword:  going small with pressure defense on the ball.  If we seal off the rebounding lanes on D, we blow the past two teams out.   Ooze will be starting again in the near future.  Against a zone, I would like to see Mo direct the point more.  He is a  better option than DJ against the match-up and can hit the trey.  We'll be fine once TC gets our rotation down.  Cube and Lazar have stepped it up nicely this year.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: muwarrior87 on November 19, 2007, 08:25:57 PM
While I realize DJ did not have that many bad looks, he shot for a low percentage and should have been looking to move the ball instead of dribbling stationary like he does.  There's no reason to put up as many shots as he did when you're shot isn't falling and other people's are.
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2007, 09:20:20 PM
1) The thing that still bugs me about the 3 junior guards - most of the time they still drive into the lane, draw a crowd, and still look to take the shot (usually resulting in a turnover) rather than looking to pass back out.

2)  I like how the Chaminade coach put it.  I get the feeling we can "out-athlete" most teams we play.  Problem is, we only do it when we *have* to - thus leading to close games...
Quote"We hit a couple of bumps there and they were able to come up with the ball and it led to a couple of dunks," Chaminade coach Matt Mahar said. "I think they looked up at the clock and decided it was time to turn up the pressure. They're super athletic."
Title: Re: Marquette Hangs On, 74-63
Post by: 79Warrior on November 19, 2007, 09:31:31 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 19, 2007, 04:17:44 PM

This idea that we have a "Big Three" is completely misguided. As some discussed on the chat during the game, Hayward appears to be one of our best offensive players, but he doesn't have the slack that the three juniors have -- for whatever reason. And frankly, if James doesn't pick it up he should be benched. We can't have a point guard that throws up airballs from 3 and is afraid to go to the basket because he doesn't want to shoot free throws. I think Crean is slightly wary of James sulking and sticks with him longer than he should.



I agree with you on James. Hard to believe he even thought about going pro last year.
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