With the Big 12 shut out of the football playoff because it declared conference co-champions, could they end up expanding to get to twelve teams so they can hold a championship game? If so, would they take Cincinnati and UConn?
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11993892/big-12-commissioner-bob-bowlsby-says-conference-reconsider-how-declare-champion (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11993892/big-12-commissioner-bob-bowlsby-says-conference-reconsider-how-declare-champion)
No and no.
Word is Memphis and Cincy.
So basically the B12 would have traded Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M for Cincy, Memphis, West Virginia and TCU. All because they wanted to appease Texas and differential television rights payouts.
Those were not very smart decisions.
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 07, 2014, 04:21:32 PM
No and no.
Bowlsby said today that they are going to look at expansion. That doesn't mean they definitely will pull the trigger.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 07, 2014, 04:24:49 PM
Bowlsby said today that they are going to look at expansion. That doesn't mean they definitely will pull the trigger.
Should of clarified. I said no to Cincy and UCONN not expansion. I guess I can see Cincy though, not too far geographically and have a decent football program. UConn really needs to ditch football and fast.
I would look at UCF and USF, but geography is already a problem with this conference.
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 07, 2014, 04:29:33 PM
Should of clarified. I said no to Cincy and UCONN not expansion. I guess I can see Cincy though, not too far geographically and have a decent football program. UConn really needs to ditch football and fast.
If they want to build a bridge to West Virginia, then Cincinnati makes some sense. And I read somewhere that UConn loses more on football then UAB. If they do expand whomever they add won't be nearly as much as what they lost.
I was thinking about this earlier. There are 4 teams I could see them targeting.
UCONN
Memphis
Cincinnati
SMU
Those four are going to be battling for an invite. I have a feeling that UCONN will be left out and they will be losing two of the only solid BBall teams from their conference. That would leave the AAC as a horrible basketball conference.
If UCONN can't get the invite, do they drop football?
Memphis is a lock.
Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2014, 05:12:35 PM
I was thinking about this earlier. There are 4 teams I could see them targeting.
UCONN
Memphis
Cincinnati
SMU
Those four are going to be battling for an invite. I have a feeling that UCONN will be left out and they will be losing two of the only solid BBall teams from their conference. That would leave the AAC as a horrible basketball conference.
If UCONN can't get the invite, do they drop football?
For our sake I hope so.
I would think, if anything, they would go after Mountain West schools with good football programs, i.e. Boise State, Fresno State, Colorado State.
Nobody cares about Memphis or UConn (or Cincy) football, and this is only about football.
Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2014, 05:12:35 PM
I was thinking about this earlier. There are 4 teams I could see them targeting.
UCONN
Memphis
Cincinnati
SMU
Those four are going to be battling for an invite. I have a feeling that UCONN will be left out and they will be losing two of the only solid BBall teams from their conference. That would leave the AAC as a horrible basketball conference.
If UCONN can't get the invite, do they drop football?
I really doubt that Uconn will drop football. Rentschler Field was a huge expense, something like $90 million and it isn't that old.
It also doesn't make much sense for them to move back to the FCS either... Uconn football isn't at all the same as it was before they moved to Division I. They sucked this year, but they were in the Fiesta Bowl just a few years ago. The problem right now is that they have had a string of awful coaching hires. The program shouldn't stay down forever.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 07, 2014, 06:40:36 PM
I would think, if anything, they would go after Mountain West schools with good football programs, i.e. Boise State, Fresno State, Colorado State.
Nobody cares about Memphis or UConn (or Cincy) football, and this is only about football.
That's a good point. Except I think that they do want someone closer to West Virginia. Maybe Colorado State and Cincy?
Quote from: Pakuni on December 07, 2014, 06:40:36 PM
I would think, if anything, they would go after Mountain West schools with good football programs, i.e. Boise State, Fresno State, Colorado State.
Nobody cares about Memphis or UConn (or Cincy) football, and this is only about football.
Colorado State would be a possibility. Boise and Fresno are way to far away. Big enough problems with West Virginia, they will stay close to their historic roots.
Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2014, 05:12:35 PM
I have a feeling that UCONN will be left out and they will be losing two of the only solid BBall teams from their conference. That would leave the AAC as a horrible basketball conference.
Imagine...and if Cincinnati and Memphis would go, with the rest of the conference in Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Oklahoma, and Louisiana, UConn and Temple have to feel grossly out of place. UConn would have to wonder what the hell it's doing if they would be left campaigning to add UMass and Marshall to the AAC to keep Temple from returning to the MAC and A-10. May the dominoes fall.
Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2014, 07:31:31 PM
Colorado State would be a possibility. Boise and Fresno are way to far away. Big enough problems with West Virginia, they will stay close to their historic roots.
Maybe, but the same issues would exist - and in some instances be worse - with UConn or Cincy or UCF/USF.
Fact is, there aren't a lot of quality football programs in the plains states outside the Big 12 that would be desirable to the Big 12.
Well I'm happy the Big East had stability and I think that was the main reason for making the conference in the first place. Don't have to worry about poaching anymore.
Right now the Big 12 has 10 teams (go figure!). So each team shares 10% of the conference take. Expand to 12 and they share 8.33%.
Rounding means each school gets 17% because they dilute themselves. Then ask how much revenue Uconn, Cincy or Memphis add back? Answer, probably not enough to offset the dilution.
So expand and get less money. Not a good deal.
The answer is not conference expansion. It is stop playing a laughable non-conference schedule.
This year
TCU
Samford
Minnesota
@SMU (finished 1-11)
Baylor
SMU (finished 1-11)
Northwestern St (1-AA)
Buffalo
Also the conference should use their brain and guess who are their best teams and schedule them last. If Baylor and TCU played each this past weekend, the winner might have made it through. Instead TCU was stuck playing a 2-10 Iowa State on the most important weekend of the year. TCU beat them 55 to 3 and dropped from 3rd to 6th in the rankings!!
The NCAA is powerless. They're toothless. What stops the Big 12 from staying at its current size and simply having a championship game with 10 schools? The NCAA now answers to the Power Five.
Hate to see the Big 10 weasel its way into the playoff. But it's not a shock. Crappy conference, but its fans travel. And as we know, this is all about making money.
Quote from: hilltopper65 on December 07, 2014, 06:56:31 PM
I really doubt that Uconn will drop football. Rentschler Field was a huge expense, something like $90 million and it isn't that old.
It also doesn't make much sense for them to move back to the FCS either... Uconn football isn't at all the same as it was before they moved to Division I. They sucked this year, but they were in the Fiesta Bowl just a few years ago. The problem right now is that they have had a string of awful coaching hires. The program shouldn't stay down forever.
I agree to this. $91.2mil to build and opened in 2003
Quote from: Groin_pull on December 07, 2014, 10:09:34 PM
The NCAA is powerless. They're toothless. What stops the Big 12 from staying at its current size and simply having a championship game with 10 schools? The NCAA now answers to the Power Five.
Hate to see the Big 10 weasel its way into the playoff. But it's not a shock. Crappy conference, but its fans travel. And as we know, this is all about making money.
It didn't weasel its way into a playoff. Baylor, TCU and OSU each finished with the same record and OSU had the strongest schedule of the three. Completely defensible.
Quote from: Groin_pull on December 07, 2014, 10:09:34 PM
The NCAA is powerless. They're toothless. What stops the Big 12 from staying at its current size and simply having a championship game with 10 schools? The NCAA now answers to the Power Five.
I do agree with this part of your post.
Why not have two 5-team divisions and a championship? What could the NCAA do about it? Makes sense to me.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on December 08, 2014, 09:18:33 AM
I do agree with this part of your post.
Why not have two 5-team divisions and a championship? What could the NCAA do about it? Makes sense to me.
Well you can't simply ignore NCAA rules. That's like saying "well I'm going to pay our players...what is the NCAA going to do?"
The B12 petitioned the NCAA to change the championship game rule. They didn't.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 07, 2014, 04:49:54 PM
I would look at UCF and USF, but geography is already a problem with this conference.
A few years ago, I would have agreed.
But with the Big Twelethirfourteen going east to pick up Rutgers (Rutgers?!?!?), the ACC extending as far north and away from the "Atlantic coast" as Syracuse and Louisville, and the Big East now west of the Mississippi with Creighton, anything is possible. In fact, distant geography seems to be something of an
advantage these days, as it allows the conference to claim it has captured a new geographic market and thus new eyes on the TV. Stinks as far as rivalries and team/fan travel, but the networks don't seem to care....
Colorado State would make a lot of sense.
And then probably either Memphis or Cincy. Cincy at least gets you in the neighborhood of Morgantown, although Memphis is closer to the core of the conference in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on December 08, 2014, 02:09:15 PM
Colorado State would make a lot of sense.
And then probably either Memphis or Cincy. Cincy at least gets you in the neighborhood of Morgantown, although Memphis is closer to the core of the conference in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas.
A great option for the Big 12 ... if they could possibly talk them out of independence - is BYU. Solid program, good tradition, strong following, large market, success in other sports, etc.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 08, 2014, 02:23:07 PM
A great option for the Big 12 ... if they could possibly talk them out of independence - is BYU. Solid program, good tradition, strong following, large market, success in other sports, etc.
BYU has made it known that they want to be in the Big 12--they tried to get in on last go around, but were snubbed. Based on that, if it weren't for the WVU outlier, I think the Big 12 could make a nice move west by grabbing CSU and BYU. But, then you still have Morganstown way out east...which makes Cinci/Memphis/both seem like a decent possibility as well.
BYU is a logical first choice. Unfortunately, there isn't a second "logical choice."
And Notre Dame is restless...sorry, scumbags...
http://www.csnchicago.com/notre-dame/after-big-12-snub-notre-dame-evaluating-its-future-playoff-chances?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo
A way to fix this is to go to 8 schools. All 5 P5 conference champions go plus three at-large teams.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 08, 2014, 02:50:02 PM
BYU has made it known that they want to be in the Big 12--they tried to get in on last go around, but were snubbed. Based on that, if it weren't for the WVU outlier, I think the Big 12 could make a nice move west by grabbing CSU and BYU. But, then you still have Morganstown way out east...which makes Cinci/Memphis/both seem like a decent possibility as well.
My understanding is that the B12 won't guaranty no gamedays on Sunday, and that is what is keeping BYU on the outside.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 09, 2014, 11:25:56 AM
My understanding is that the B12 won't guaranty no gamedays on Sunday, and that is what is keeping BYU on the outside.
How does this work for the NCAA Bball Tourney? Are they guaranteed a Thursday/Saturday set of games each week?
A few years ago BYU had Jimmer Fredette in the tourney, so they do go and can be significant. Did they play on Sunday?
Quote from: Heisenberg on December 09, 2014, 11:39:27 AM
How does this work for the NCAA Bball Tourney? Are they guaranteed a Thursday/Saturday set of games each week?
A few years ago BYU had Jimmer Fredette in the tourney, so they do go and can be significant. Did they play on Sunday?
Yes. They have to be placed somewhere in the bracket so it plays not only its first and second round, but its regional semis and finals on a Thursday / Saturday.
I recall this coming up when Marquette played them a couple years ago...that they may have been underseeded due to this requirement.
Quote from: forgetful on December 07, 2014, 05:12:35 PM
I was thinking about this earlier. There are 4 teams I could see them targeting.
UCONN
Memphis
Cincinnati
SMU
Those four are going to be battling for an invite. I have a feeling that UCONN will be left out and they will be losing two of the only solid BBall teams from their conference. That would leave the AAC as a horrible basketball conference.
If UCONN can't get the invite, do they drop football?
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 07, 2014, 05:42:28 PM
For our sake I hope so.
If we say a few Hail Marys maybe Kansas, Duke and UCONN will drop football and join the Beast.
Quote from: Heisenberg on December 09, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
A way to fix this is to go to 8 schools. All 5 P5 conference champions go plus three at-large teams.
From what I heard and read, one big thing is it's the bowl game and bowl game attendance why they won't go to 8. Fans are not likely to go to a Final 8 bowl game, Final 4 game and the Final. Plus the 8 would extend the season even further.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 09, 2014, 12:33:43 PM
From what I heard and read, one big thing is it's the bowl game and bowl game attendance why they won't go to 8. Fans are not likely to go to a Final 8 bowl game, Final 4 game and the Final. Plus the 8 would extend the season even further.
What! They have about 30 bowl games before New Years Day. Eight of them would die to be part of the playoff system and attendance would not be a problem in a championship series.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 09, 2014, 07:17:47 PM
What! They have about 30 bowl games before New Years Day. Eight of them would die to be part of the playoff system and attendance would not be a problem in a championship series.
What MU Fan in CT is saying is that they are unsure about the fanbase's willingness to travel three weeks in a row.
That is why I wonder if they would need to be home locations for the first round in an 8 team scenario.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 09, 2014, 07:51:51 PM
What MU Fan in CT is saying is that they are unsure about the fanbase's willingness to travel three weeks in a row.
That is why I wonder if they would need to be home locations for the first round in an 8 team scenario.
Fan bases travel pretty well for the Basketball tournament.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 09, 2014, 07:59:02 PM
Fan bases travel pretty well for the Basketball tournament.
Filling a 15,000 seat arena is a lot different than a 80,000 seat stadium.
Oops!
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 09, 2014, 08:02:02 PM
What MU Fan in CT is saying is that they are unsure about the fanbase's willingness to travel three weeks in a row.
That is why I wonder if they would need to be home locations for the first round in an 8 team scenario.
Filling a 15,000 seat arena is a lot different than a 80,000 seat stadium.
Thanks Sultan. In better words than I could muster.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 09, 2014, 07:51:51 PM
What MU Fan in CT is saying is that they are unsure about the fanbase's willingness to travel three weeks in a row.
That is why I wonder if they would need to be home locations for the first round in an 8 team scenario.
Yep, here's what you do:
The weekend after conference championship week, you have the Final 8 first round at the home stadium of the higher-seeded team. For those 8 teams, you basically add a week to the regular season.
Normal break (minus one week) between regular season and bowl games...
Now Final four is then determined, and the Final Four meet in 2 bowl games as they will this season. Those that lost in the round of 8 get invited to other Bowl games.
And you have the National Championship game as you do this season.
You just add a week to regular season by making the first round of the playoff the week after Conference Championship week, and have the bowl season as you do now.