Since the threads that aren't devolving into Derrick bashing are devolving as to which former coach is more despicable, it is time to pull it together in one place. Rank the MU coaches since Al. My list is going to be strictly on X's and O's and not on whether they were nice guys, who they drank with, what they did after they left. etc. Strictly their time at MU. If you wish to include those things, stipulate in your ranking. I hope Wojo surpasses them all, but I am not going to include him based on a month.
1. Buzz.
2. Crean
3. Hank
4. KO
5. Deane
6. Rick
7. Dukiet
Quote from: tower912 on December 04, 2014, 11:30:03 AM
Since the threads that aren't devolving into Derrick bashing are devolving as to which former coach is more despicable, it is time to pull it together in one place. Rank the MU coaches since Al. My list is going to be strictly on X's and O's and not on whether they were nice guys, who they drank with, what they did after they left. etc. Strictly their time at MU. If you wish to include those things, stipulate in your ranking. I hope Wojo surpasses them all, but I am not going to include him based on a month.
1. Buzz.
2. Crean
3. Hank
4. KO
5. Deane
6. Rick
7. Dukiet
Is switch Hank and KO but other than that mines the same
1. KO
2. Buzz.
3. Crean
4. Hank
5. Deane
6. Rick
7. Dukiet
I think some people way undervalue KO's contribution to the program because of his relatively short tenure and hard feelings over the way he left.
KO saved Marquette from becoming another Loyola-Chicago or Detroit Mercy.
I agree with KO being 3rd but I think after Al he was the most important coach in MU history. Not necessarily the best but the most important.
Strictly on X's and O's? Not recruiting? Then I'll say:
1. Hank
2. Deane
3. KO
4. Buzz
5. Rick
6. Crean
7. Dukiet.
Buzz and TC were reasonably decent bench coaches, but they won more than the others because they were better recruiters, not better X's and O's guys.
OK, let's cause some problems
1) Crean: He got us into the Final Four for the first time since 1977. That's worth being ranked 1.
2) Buzz: You can't argue with success, no matter how it happened.
3) KO: He saved the program, pure and simple.
4) Wojo: Very incomplete but I like what I am seeing.
5) Tie, Rick and Mike Deane: Neither did anything with a world-class program.
7) Hank: Nice guy, sent the program in a tailspin that it almost died from.
999999999) Dukiet: I think even Ners and Keefe could have done a better job than Dukiet. He was badly overmatched and almost cost us everything.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 04, 2014, 11:37:07 AM
1. KO
2. Buzz.
3. Crean
4. Hank
5. Deane
6. Rick
7. Dukiet
I think some people way undervalue KO's contribution to the program because of his relatively short tenure and hard feelings over the way he left.
KO saved Marquette from becoming another Loyola-Chicago or Detroit Mercy.
This is absolutely correct. KO inherited nothing. In my opinion, he is solely responsible for saving MU basketball from obscurity.
1. KO
2. Crean
3. Buzz
4/5. Rick and Deane
6. Hank
7. Dukiet
Some interesting observations. I'll need to think on this more.
I will say that Hank was the greatest assistant coach in Marquette history. He had been a candidate for the job when Al was selected. When the university and Al convinced him to stay as Al's right hand man, history was made. They were a perfect fit.
Easy:
1. Crean - rebuild program enthusiasm/Big East entry/Final Four
2. Buzz - continued momentum and direction est. by #1
3. KO - reached heights not recently seen (Sweet 16), though below #'s 2 & 3
4. Rick - though better in MU class he taught, or sports talk
5. Hank - call a time out, Hank!
6. Deane - we're getting down there
7. Dukiet - way down there, is there a sub basement?
1) Buzz
2) Crean
3) KO
4) Hank
5) Rick
6) Deane
7) Dukiet
1. Crean-Restored the program to being in the national conversation.
2. Buzz- sustained and enhanced on Creans Body of work.
3. KO brought program back from the brink. A few more years with us and he would rank higher.
4. Rick- took over at a tough time, left too soon. His subsequent legend accrues to us though.
5. Hank- good guy , tough to follow a giant ,but I believe he set the downward motion in place which is why I rank him lower. He had plenty of talent to work with . I will never forget sitting in the stands at the Miami of Ohio game dumbfounded. I still think that was the beginning of the steady downtrend .
6. Deane- tread water, which at a school like ours is dangerous.
7. Dukiet- Dumpster Fire
1. KO
2. Crean
3. Buzz
4. Hank
5. Rick
KO had the hardest job and saved the program. Truthfully I have hard time putting Hank at four but Rick became a great coach after he left. Crean and Buzz are a toss up to me and gave Crean nod for Wade and FF.
1) Buzz
2) - Tie - Crean and KO
Everyone else.
In a few years, shift everyone down one and Wojo will be at the top.
1.Buzz
2.Crean/KO
3.Hank
4.Deane
5.Rick
6.Dukiet
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 04, 2014, 11:49:08 AM
5) Tie, Rick and Mike Deane: Neither did anything with a world-class program.
Well, Deane did win 100 games faster than any MU coach in history and went to two NCAAs, 2 NITs, and won MU's only conference tournament championship.
Quote from: Norm on December 04, 2014, 02:00:49 PM
Well, Deane did win 100 games faster than any MU coach in history and went to two NCAAs, 2 NITs, and won MU's only conference tournament championship.
Of course, he did that with KO's guys. After that, Cords was correctly reading the tea leaves.
Quote from: Norm on December 04, 2014, 02:00:49 PM
Well, Deane did win 100 games faster than any MU coach in history and went to two NCAAs, 2 NITs, and won MU's only conference tournament championship.
Raymonds, Crean and Williams all made it to 100 wins quicker than Deane.
after 5 seasons Hank was 107-40, Buzz 122-54, Crean 102-53 and Deane 100-55.
KO - As others have said, saved program from the disaster it was run into by Dukiet.
Buzz - Can't argue with 3, Sweet 16s and 1 Elite 8, 5 total NCAA appearances in 6 years
Crean - If not for only achieving 1 NCAA win in 9 years (without having D-Wade), I'd put him above Buzz, but there were too many empty NCAA years post-Wade
Deane - Inherited some good talent from K.O., and coached it well - but was a disaster of a recruiter and Cords rightly pulled the plug.
Rick - Limited success in his time at MU - not taking account his post MU career.
Hank - He took over the program when it was a blueblood, when 5-star kids wanted to come to MU, and we had a decade long track record of excellence. Not only did he not sustain that, we fell to an NIT caliber program.
Dukiet doesn't even belong in the conversation.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 04, 2014, 11:37:07 AM
1. KO
2. Buzz.
3. Crean
4. Hank
5. Deane
6. Rick
7. Dukiet
I think some people way undervalue KO's contribution to the program because of his relatively short tenure and hard feelings over the way he left.
KO saved Marquette from becoming another Loyola-Chicago or Detroit Mercy.
+1
For a lot of us on this board, this is a really depressing conversation. At least I got one year of KO.
For those of you who weren't around, it's difficult to put into words just how bad Dukiet was. Was anyone else there the night at the Varsity when he wanted to play the piano and asked for a couple of back up singers? Ranks up there as one of the most awkward public moments I've ever witnessed.
I'd probably go with: 1) KO; 2) Crean; 3) Buzz; 4) Hank; 5) Rick; 6) Deane; 7) Dukiet
Quote from: StillAWarrior on December 04, 2014, 02:41:26 PM
For a lot of us on this board, this is a really depressing conversation. At least I got one year of KO.
For those of you who weren't around, it's difficult to put into words just how bad Dukiet was. Was anyone else there the night at the Varsity when he wanted to play the piano and asked for a couple of back up singers? Ranks up there as one of the most awkward public moments I've ever witnessed.
I'd probably go with: 1) KO; 2) Crean; 3) Buzz; 4) Hank; 5) Rick; 6) Deane; 7) Dukiet
Yep, I witnessed the Piano Man at the Varsity. Also ate at McCormick a couple times with him - he used to eat there with his players every now and then.
1. KO
2. Crean
3. Buzz
4. Rick
5. Hank
6. Deane
Receiving votes: Dukiet
1. Shaka Smart - zero losses can't argue with that
2. Buzz- most consistent success
3. Crean - highest level of success
4. KO - brought is back to life
4.5-> where I see Wojo as of now but very likely to move up with time
5. Hank - wasn't the coach for us when we were at that level
6. Deane - I think people are too hard on him he was somewhat successful not a flop
7. Rick - don't understand the MU love. Proud to call him an alum but he didn't coach great for us and ditched us for the NBA
8. Dukiet - pretty sure some of the assistant coaches over the years rank higher than him.
1: Crean
2: Buzz
3: KO
4: Majerus
5: Deane
6: Hank
7: The empty space between one coach leaving and another coach arriving
8: Dukiet
1. KO
2. Buzz
3. Crean
4. Deane
5. Rick
6. Hank
7. Wainwright
8. Dukiet
Think Ners hit it almost perfectly except I would put Buzz first:
Buzz not only was successful he stamped a basketball culture onto Marquette and was a better game coach than anyone since Al. He was the best tourney coach since Al - even though he didn't make the final four, his accomplishment of winning the Big East when it was best conference in basketball puts his tenure well above Crean or KO. KO saved the program agreed but based on X and Os or success as a coach he and really none of the others since Al come close to Buzz. Crean made the final four with a once in a generation player. Buzz created a program that got out of the first weekend three years running. I think its too soon for peeps to really accept that.
KO - As others have said, saved program from the disaster it was run into by Dukiet.
Buzz - Can't argue with 3, Sweet 16s and 1 Elite 8, 5 total NCAA appearances in 6 years
Crean - If not for only achieving 1 NCAA win in 9 years (without having D-Wade), I'd put him above Buzz, but there were too many empty NCAA years post-Wade
Deane - Inherited some good talent from K.O., and coached it well - but was a disaster of a recruiter and Cords rightly pulled the plug.
Rick - Limited success in his time at MU - not taking account his post MU career.
Hank - He took over the program when it was a blueblood, when 5-star kids wanted to come to MU, and we had a decade long track record of excellence. Not only did he not sustain that, we fell to an NIT caliber program.
Dukiet doesn't even belong in the conversation.
1. Buzz
2. KO
3. Crean
4. Deane
5. Hank
6. Majerus
7. Dukiet
Before my time at MU, but everything I've read about Rick makes it seem he was way over his head with the MU job. Its too bad the timing didn't work out, because he's the best coach (by far) on this list.
Buzz has the top spot for me because he made the 2nd weekend of the tournament three straight years. That's going to be difficult to replicate. And, you're if going by career winning percentage, don't forget Brad Autry (1-0).
In order of who I'd like to have a beer with:
1. KO
2. Hank
3. .... that's it.
Quote from: PandTandMand... on December 04, 2014, 12:30:42 PM
1. KO
2. Crean
3. Buzz
4/5. Rick and Deane
6. Hank
7. Dukiet
#1 needs to be KO. Without him resurrecting the MU program, we'd be lucky to be in the Horizon. MU was at the bottom when KO walked in. A few years later, he had us in the Sweet 16.
1. KO
2. Crean
3. Williams
4. Raymonds
5. Majerus
6. Deane
7. Dukiet
Hey Old Guys,
I'm an '09 alum and so don't know much about KO besides his hot Canadian wife. Can you educate me on how KO brought MU basketball back from the brink?
Thanks,
09 Alum
Quote from: JoBo2756 on December 05, 2014, 01:02:00 AM
Hey Old Guys,
I'm an '09 alum and so don't know much about KO besides his hot Canadian wife. Can you educate me on how KO brought MU basketball back from the brink?
Thanks,
09 Alum
This question is probably worthy of its own thread.
Quote from: JoBo2756 on December 05, 2014, 01:02:00 AM
Hey Old Guys,
I'm an '09 alum and so don't know much about KO besides his hot Canadian wife. Can you educate me on how KO brought MU basketball back from the brink?
Thanks,
09 Alum
Under Dukiet, we were abysmal. Playing mostly mid major competition (think Loyola)...and we were so bad that we'd celebrate when we beat them. In short, MU was totally out of the national conversation, even though we'd won the Championship only a decade earlier.
We hired KO, and he promptly signed our best recruiting class since Al (McIlvaine, Damon Key, Roney Eford, Robb Logtermann). It took a couple of years to turn around the train wreck that Dukiet left behind, but by the time KO's first class were seniors, we were celebrating wins over Memphis and Cincinnati (wins over Loyola were a given), and ultimately made the Sweet Sixteen.
When he left after 5 years, we were up and down for a few years under Deane...but at least we were back in the national conversation, thanks to KO. If he hadn't come along when he had, there is a very real possibility we'd be in the Horizon with Milwaukee and Green Bay right now.
Quote from: JoBo2756 on December 05, 2014, 01:02:00 AM
Hey Old Guys,
I'm an '09 alum and so don't know much about KO besides his hot Canadian wife. Can you educate me on how KO brought MU basketball back from the brink?
Thanks,
09 Alum
Damon Key, Jim McIlvaine, Robb Logterman, Ron Curry
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 05, 2014, 08:16:18 AM
Under Dukiet, we were abysmal. Playing mostly mid major competition (think Loyola)...and we were so bad that we'd celebrate when we beat them. In short, MU was totally out of the national conversation, even though we'd won the Championship only a decade earlier.
We hired KO, and he promptly signed our best recruiting class since Al (McIlvaine, Damon Key, Roney Eford, Charles Brakes, Robb Logtermann). It took a couple of years to turn around the train wreck that Dukiet left behind, but by the time KO's first class were seniors, we were celebrating wins over Memphis and Cincinnati (wins over Loyola were a given), and ultimately made the Sweet Sixteen.
When he left after 5 years, we were up and down for a few years under Deane...but at least we were back in the national conversation, thanks to KO. If he hadn't come along when he had, there is a very real possibility we'd be in the Horizon with Milwaukee and Green Bay right now.
Good breakdown, with one minor correction above.
KO's early success also helped MU get into the Great Midwest, which begat C-USA, which gave MU a platform to get into the Big East. Had MU stayed on the downward trend, I doubt they're invited into the Great Midwest.
KO also raised hell about MU's poor facilities, and while it took too many years for anything to happen about it, his making a stink about it probably at least got the discussion going that led to The Al.
Pretty much correct, except that it was Charles Brakes. Eford came later. Also had transfers Ron Curry (Arizon), Jay Zulauf (Bowling Green) and Keith Stewart (Purdue).
Had a good first year riding Tony Smith, a tough second year with all the new guys, then got better each year until the Sweet Sixteen.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 05, 2014, 08:16:18 AM
Under Dukiet, we were abysmal. Playing mostly mid major competition (think Loyola)...and we were so bad that we'd celebrate when we beat them. In short, MU was totally out of the national conversation, even though we'd won the Championship only a decade earlier.
We hired KO, and he promptly signed our best recruiting class since Al (McIlvaine, Damon Key, Roney Eford, Robb Logtermann). It took a couple of years to turn around the train wreck that Dukiet left behind, but by the time KO's first class were seniors, we were celebrating wins over Memphis and Cincinnati (wins over Loyola were a given), and ultimately made the Sweet Sixteen.
When he left after 5 years, we were up and down for a few years under Deane...but at least we were back in the national conversation, thanks to KO. If he hadn't come along when he had, there is a very real possibility we'd be in the Horizon with Milwaukee and Green Bay right now.
Could someone explain the thought process behind hiring Dukiet? I just looked up his coaching record and he wasn't even good at St Peter's!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 05, 2014, 08:16:18 AM
Under Dukiet, we were abysmal. Playing mostly mid major competition (think Loyola)...and we were so bad that we'd celebrate when we beat them. In short, MU was totally out of the national conversation, even though we'd won the Championship only a decade earlier.
We hired KO, and he promptly signed our best recruiting class since Al (McIlvaine, Damon Key, Roney Eford, Robb Logtermann). It took a couple of years to turn around the train wreck that Dukiet left behind, but by the time KO's first class were seniors, we were celebrating wins over Memphis and Cincinnati (wins over Loyola were a given), and ultimately made the Sweet Sixteen.
When he left after 5 years, we were up and down for a few years under Deane...but at least we were back in the national conversation, thanks to KO. If he hadn't come along when he had, there is a very real possibility we'd be in the Horizon with Milwaukee and Green Bay right now.
In all fairness Loyola Chicago was coming off a sweet 16 when Bob started.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 05, 2014, 08:24:10 AM
Could someone explain the thought process behind hiring Dukiet? I just looked up his coaching record and he wasn't even good at St Peter's!
In all fairness Loyola Chicago was coming off a sweet 16 when Bob started.
He was a fall back. Mike Newall(?) the Arkansas Little Rock coach was first choice. He was coming off a win in the tournament. Majerus left in June, so the choices were slim and the time frame was tight.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 04, 2014, 02:33:57 PM
KO - As others have said, saved program from the disaster it was run into by Dukiet.
Buzz - Can't argue with 3, Sweet 16s and 1 Elite 8, 5 total NCAA appearances in 6 years
Crean - If not for only achieving 1 NCAA win in 9 years (without having D-Wade), I'd put him above Buzz, but there were too many empty NCAA years post-Wade
Deane - Inherited some good talent from K.O., and coached it well - but was a disaster of a recruiter and Cords rightly pulled the plug.
Rick - Limited success in his time at MU - not taking account his post MU career.
Hank - He took over the program when it was a blueblood, when 5-star kids wanted to come to MU, and we had a decade long track record of excellence. Not only did he not sustain that, we fell to an NIT caliber program.
Dukiet doesn't even belong in the conversation.
This is exactly how I would rank them, and my comments would be almost identical.
From the Pipines/Neufeldt book, Hank was the AD, Hubie Brown and Jud Heathcote recommended Dukiet.
From me, Rick left in the middle of the summer and the likely candidates were pretty well gone. IIRC, there was another candidate who nearly took the job, but, foreshadowing Shaka, his wife torpedoed it at the last second. I can't remember that guy's name.
If you weren't in it, you can't imagine just how bad the basketball was under Dukiet. Trevor Powell and Tony Smith were the talent. Niagara/Fairfield/Loyola Chicago would come to the arena and there was genuine concern whether MU would win. Whisperings in the faculty and the administration that maybe MU should drop to DII. He couldn't recruit talent and he was brutal to the players he had. Rod Strickland pointing at Anthony Candelino guarding him and laughing as he brought the ball up. Rod Grosse jumping center and leaving at the first dead ball, never to be seen again.
Pretty tough to do considering different eras, TV contracts, conferences/independents, etc., but this would be my opinion:
1. Hank--a great guy, X and O coach, and part of Marquette during the glory years. He had Al's back.
2. KO-- an intense guy who turned the program around
3. Crean-- a dork but took the program to greater heights (Wade and a final four)
4 Rick--have to include because of his journey, the McGuire era, and did as much as he could with nothing from the administration as the college basketball landscape was changing so much. A real junkie--basketball, food and one liners.
5. Deane--very good X and O and tactician. Jerk off the court, but did well with what he had.
6. Buzz---the man who said "I will be at Marquette as long as they want me", and Derrick is an elite gamechanger. A real B'ser.
Negative Infinity. Dukiet--a good piano player but clueless as a coach
Quote from: tower912 on December 05, 2014, 08:39:26 AM
From the Pipines/Neufeldt book, Hank was the AD, Hubie Brown and Jud Heathcote recommended Dukiet.
From me, Rick left in the middle of the summer and the likely candidates were pretty well gone. IIRC, there was another candidate who nearly took the job, but, foreshadowing Shaka, his wife torpedoed it at the last second. I can't remember that guy's name.
If you weren't in it, you can't imagine just how bad the basketball was under Dukiet. Trevor Powell and Tony Smith were the talent. Niagara/Fairfield/Loyola Chicago would come to the arena and there was genuine concern whether MU would win. Whisperings in the faculty and the administration that maybe MU should drop to DII. He couldn't recruit talent and he was brutal to the players he had. Rod Strickland pointing at Anthony Candelino guarding him and laughing as he brought the ball up. Rod Grosse jumping center and leaving at the first dead ball, never to be seen again.
I can remember watching Dukiet's squad get torched at the Meadowlands by a mediocre Iona team. Had tickets for a Fordham game later (I think it was at MSG, not Rose Hill) and didn't go, which was good, since they got spanked again.
Ah yes, the glory years under Dukiet. Wonder how Newell would have turned out after accepting and then unaccepting, Kind of like Billy Donavan did at Fla.?
Interesting to see peoples comments on this thread. Our standards here at MU are very high. One of the reasons I think we can get back to the highest tier again. Wojo obviously saw that when he took the job.
In comparison to our standards lets take an example of Judd Heathcoate. He had 6 losing seasons at Michigan State out of his 19 years there and was never noted as a great recruiter. Yet he is considered one of their all time greats. Obviously they won the whole thing early on and Judd milked that till he had some great teams toward the end of his career. Even then his last six years performance was not at the level of Buzz. Buzz gets run out /showed the door / let the door slam on the way out whatever version you want, with one bad Winning season .Not sure a guy like Judd would have survived here with some of his 10-18 11-17 performances. Although it is ironic that several of Judds assistants played a role here Crean , Deane, Dwayne Stephens.
Years
1.Crean 9
2.Buzz/Hank 6
4.KO/Deane 5
6.Rick/Dukiet 3
W/L %
1.Hank .716
2.Buzz .681
3.Crean.664
4.Deane.645
5.Rick .615
6.KO .581
7. Dukiet.459
Regular Season Conference Championships
KO 1 (Great Midwest)
Crean 1 (CUSA)
Buzz 1 (Big East)
(Hank and Rick didn't coach in conferences)
Tournament Conference Championships
Deane 1 (Great Midwest)
Times in NCAA Tournament
1.Hank/Buzz 5/6
3.Crean 5/9
4.KO/Deane 2/5
6.Rick/Dukiet 0
Wins in NCAA Tournament
1.Buzz 8
2.Crean 5
3.Hank/KO/ 2
5.Deane 1
6.Rick/Dukiet 0
Winning % in NCAA Tournament
1.Buzz .615 (8-5)
2.KO/Crean .500 (2-2, 5-5)
4.Deane .333 (1-2)
5.Hank .286 (2-5)
6.Rick/Dukiet .000 (0-0)
Final Fours
1. Crean 1
Elite 8s
1.Buzz 1
Sweet 16s
1.Buzz 2
2.KO/Hank 1
Times Advancing out of Week 1
1.Buzz 3
2.Crean/Hank/KO 1
KO gets extra credit because he inherited a mess. Hank gets major deductions because he inherited the #2 or 3 program in the country. The rest inherited solid programs, though Rick, Dukiet, Deane and Buzz got more solid ones than Crean.
These facts won't change opinions, especially in areas of "close calls", but at least they'll debunk some of the more outrageous (see Willie's).
Dukiet remind anyone else of Chevy Chase?
(http://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/men_s_basketball/dukiet.jpg?w=&h=&cache=cache)(http://blog.nj.com/njsports_impact/2009/06/medium_DUKIET.JPG)
(http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/chevy-chase-murphy-elliott.jpg)
(https://autographcollector.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/chevy-chase.jpg)
Chevy Chase is a better coach. "Be the ball, Danny."
Chevy Chase: Kevin O'Neill's personality locked in Bob Dukiet's body.
Yeah, and without Kevin the Old Gym woulda never been built, aina?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 05, 2014, 11:53:39 AM
Years
1.Crean 9
2.Buzz/Hank 6
4.KO/Deane 5
6.Rick/Dukiet 3
W/L %
1.Hank .716
2.Buzz .681
3.Crean.664
4.Deane.645
5.Rick .615
6.KO .581
7. Dukiet.459
Regular Season Conference Championships
KO 1 (Great Midwest)
Crean 1 (CUSA)
Buzz 1 (Big East)
(Hank and Rick didn't coach in conferences)
Tournament Conference Championships
Deane 1 (Great Midwest)
Times in NCAA Tournament
1.Hank/Buzz 5/6
3.Crean 5/9
4.KO/Deane 2/5
6.Rick/Dukiet 0
Wins in NCAA Tournament
1.Buzz 8
2.Crean 5
3.Hank/KO/ 2
5.Deane 1
6.Rick/Dukiet 0
Winning % in NCAA Tournament
1.Buzz .615 (8-5)
2.KO/Crean .500 (2-2, 5-5)
4.Deane .333 (1-2)
5.Hank .286 (2-5)
6.Rick/Dukiet .000 (0-0)
Final Fours
1. Crean 1
Elite 8s
1.Buzz 1
Sweet 16s
1.Buzz 2
2.KO/Hank 1
Times Advancing out of Week 1
1.Buzz 3
2.Crean/Hank/KO 1
KO gets extra credit because he inherited a mess. Hank gets major deductions because he inherited the #2 or 3 program in the country. The rest inherited solid programs, though Rick, Dukiet, Deane and Buzz got more solid ones than Crean.
These facts won't change opinions, especially in areas of "close calls", but at least they'll debunk some of the more outrageous (see Willie's).
Great stats, Lenny. Thanks for compiling it.
It's pretty difficult -- almost impossible, really -- to look at that list and all that Buzz accomplished while spending his first five seasons in arguably one of the best basketball conferences ever, and not conclude that Buzz is No. 1.
Crean got us to the Final Four and that matters. O'Neill helped rebuild the Marquette basketball brand. But neither has the overall results Buzz did, and, as I said, Buzz did it while competing against the best of the best; it's kind of ironic that his one bad season came after the Big East took a major step down in quality.
The rest shouldn't even be in the conversation, IMHO.
Agreed, thanks, Lenny.
What is interesting is how the criteria for rankings differ based on what I think is age.
If you were a graduate of Marquette on or before June 1, 1982, your benchmark is closeness to a national championship. The closer the coach got, the higher he is rated. That's why Crean is number 1 in my book.
If you were a Marquette graduate between June 2, 1982 and June 1, 1990, or during the Deane era, KO is probably your first choice because he repaired the Marquette brand name and brought us back to the glory you largely missed on campus. You lived through some pretty bad basketball. The elders of the university at the time thought basketball was an after-thought and were more concerned with advertising the quality of some obscure philosophy professor than they were building up the basketball team.
If you were a graduate of Marquette after June 1, 1992 and did not attend Marquette during the Deane era, you're probably still angry at Crean and KO and would rate the Hillbilly #1.
If you are nostalgic for the Al era, think a basketball coach should be a totally nice guy and nothing more and think Miami of Ohio is a nice school in Oxford, Ohio, you would rate Hank #1. Your dementia made you totally forget March 1978.
If you flunked out of underwater basketweaving at Red Rodent U, played too much football without a helmet and forgot to take all your meds today, you might even consider Bob Dukiet a notable afterthought. Even this person would not consider his body of work worthy.
As a second note, perhaps it is revisionist history but given the pickle Marquette was in and Bob Dukiet's inability to coach or recruit, we probably should have made Hank a one-year interim coach when Majerus left. That would have given us time to do things right. Yeah, we would have lost recruiting momentum, but it would not have been any worse than when Dukiet was with us.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 05, 2014, 02:09:10 PM
What is interesting is how the criteria for rankings differ based on what I think is age.
If you were a graduate of Marquette on or before June 1, 1982, your benchmark is closeness to a national championship. The closer the coach got, the higher he is rated. That's why Crean is number 1 in my book.
If you were a Marquette graduate between June 2, 1982 and June 1, 1990, or during the Deane era, KO is probably your first choice because he repaired the Marquette brand name and brought us back to the glory you largely missed on campus. You lived through some pretty bad basketball. The elders of the university at the time thought basketball was an after-thought and were more concerned with advertising the quality of some obscure philosophy professor than they were building up the basketball team.
If you were a graduate of Marquette after June 1, 1992 and did not attend Marquette during the Deane era, you're probably still angry at Crean and KO and would rate the Hillbilly #1.
If you are nostalgic for the Al era, think a basketball coach should be a totally nice guy and nothing more and think Miami of Ohio is a nice school in Oxford, Ohio, you would rate Hank #1. Your dementia made you totally forget March 1978.
If you flunked out of underwater basketweaving at Red Rodent U, played too much football without a helmet and forgot to take all your meds today, you might even consider Bob Dukiet a notable afterthought. Even this person would not consider his body of work worthy.
As a second note, perhaps it is revisionist history but given the pickle Marquette was in and Bob Dukiet's inability to coach or recruit, we probably should have made Hank a one-year interim coach when Majerus left. That would have given us time to do things right. Yeah, we would have lost recruiting momentum, but it would not have been any worse than when Dukiet was with us.
I graduated in May 1982 (hence my screen name). I give Crean "extra points" for the Final Four run but I still choose Buzz No. 1.
1. AL
2. Raymonds
3. Crean
4. Buzz
5. Murray
6. Chandler
7. Hickey
8. KO
9. Majerus
10. Deane
11. Nagle
12. Winter
13. Ryan
14. Lipe
15. Risch
16. Wojo
17. Dukiet
1. Buzz
2. Crean
3. KO
4. Raymonds
5. Rick
6. Deanne
7. Dukiet
Wojo-- Silly to include him. But based on the potential of his 1st recruiting class, which he put together before ever coaching a game, he could turn out to be #1.