The kid can shoot...!
http://www.courtsidefilms.com/news_article/show/453130-future-marquette-pg-nick-noskowiak-drops-29-points-tournament-of-champions
Mark Miller @WisBBYearbook 7m7 minutes ago
Marquette recruit Nick Noskowiak pours in 37 tonight to help Sun Prairie turn back Madison La Follette 66-61.
Quote from: VegasWarrior77 on December 02, 2014, 09:08:54 PM
The kid can shoot...!
http://www.courtsidefilms.com/news_article/show/453130-future-marquette-pg-nick-noskowiak-drops-29-points-tournament-of-champions
It looks like Nick has improved his shooting form quite a bit over the last year. The kid is going to be a very nice addition to our program .
Quote from: MuMark on December 02, 2014, 09:29:46 PM
Mark Miller @WisBBYearbook 7m7 minutes ago
Marquette recruit Nick Noskowiak pours in 37 tonight to help Sun Prairie turn back Madison La Follette 66-61.
Nice!
Matt Velazquez @Matt_Velazquez 3m3 minutes ago
37 points tonight. Quite a gift. RT @NickNoskowiak: Did it for my momma man... happy birthday mom, love you more than anything...
Nice form - looks more like a 2 guard than PG in my view. Plays fairly erect. Not a burner - seemed to have average quickness, not a lot of blow by speed.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 02, 2014, 10:56:57 PM
Nice form - looks more like a 2 guard than PG in my view. Plays fairly erect. Not a burner - seemed to have average quickness, not a lot of blow by speed.
I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we look forward to your 2 billion posts of completely rational analysis of his game.
Geez, how fast do you expect him to run in that condition?
The kid knocks down free throws with that condition too.....
That shot will be welcome next year.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 02, 2014, 10:56:57 PM
Nice form - looks more like a 2 guard than PG in my view. Plays fairly erect. Not a burner - seemed to have average quickness, not a lot of blow by speed.
At his age he should play extremely erect.
Quote from: hairy worthen on December 03, 2014, 07:33:43 AM
At his age he should play extremely erect.
May explain why he does not have blow-by quickness.
Quote from: ecompt on December 03, 2014, 07:41:05 AM
May explain why he does not have blow-by quickness.
Lol +1
I'm thinkin' it's the only way a playa plays, aina?
Quote from: keefe on December 03, 2014, 12:04:02 AM
Surprised you noticed...
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 03, 2014, 05:43:25 AM
Geez, how fast do you expect him to run in that condition?
Quote from: hairy worthen on December 03, 2014, 07:33:43 AM
At his age he should play extremely erect.
Quote from: ecompt on December 03, 2014, 07:41:05 AM
May explain why he does not have blow-by quickness.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 03, 2014, 08:15:58 AM
I'm thinkin' it's the only way a playa plays, aina?
Well done Scoopers. Reminiscent of the Austin Grandstaff thread.
I heard he was just happy to guard someone.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 02, 2014, 10:56:57 PM
Nice form - looks more like a 2 guard than PG in my view. Plays fairly erect. Not a burner - seemed to have average quickness, not a lot of blow by speed.
If you look at his films last year his shot was more cockeyed.
He will gain strength and speed when he gets in our training program.
I think he'll probably end up playing more off the ball next year, like Diener did his frosh year. Although I've heard he is good at running an offense/controlling tempo so who knows. One thing is certain, the backcourt will be bombing with him and Duane on the court at the same time. Cohen has shown nice potential from deep too. Ellenson will have plenty of room to operate inside & out with what he'll be surrounded by. Next year can't get here soon enough!
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 03, 2014, 09:38:41 AM
I think he'll probably end up playing more off the ball next year, like Diener did his frosh year. Although I've heard he is good at running an offense/controlling tempo so who knows. One thing is certain, the backcourt will be bombing with him and Duane on the court at the same time. Cohen has shown nice potential from deep too. Ellenson will have plenty of room to operate inside & out with what he'll be surrounded by. Next year can't get here soon enough!
That's a good point. We'll be able to spread the floor very well for the first time in years.
With Fischer/Heldt at the 5, there will be guys at every position that can step out and make shots. If the young guys can pick up on Wojo's offense, they're gonna be a bitch to guard.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 03, 2014, 09:38:41 AM
I think he'll probably end up playing more off the ball next year, like Diener did his frosh year. Although I've heard he is good at running an offense/controlling tempo so who knows. One thing is certain, the backcourt will be bombing with him and Duane on the court at the same time. Cohen has shown nice potential from deep too. Ellenson will have plenty of room to operate inside & out with what he'll be surrounded by. Next year can't get here soon enough!
Of course, MU had a pretty good veteran (senior) point guard in place when Diener arrived. That won't be the case next year, when Wojo's options at the point will be Du. Wilson - who so far seems more of a swing player than a one - John Dawson and Noskowiak. In fact, I think Nick's best chance for significant PT has to be at the point because Wojo will have so many options at the 2/3, i.e. Duane, JJJ, Cheatham, Sandy, Wally, Deonte, and not so many at the 1.
As for next year not coming soon enough .... I can wait. There will be lots of ups and downs this season, which will make it maddening at times, but also fun to watch Wojo grow as a coach and the team develop.
Glad to see Nick tearing it up. I have learned over the years that if the freshmen have an instant impact, it is gravy. Having said that, I think that this class may have 3 impact freshmen. But even then, will they start. The only one that may start from day one is HEllenson. To do so, he is going to have to beat out STjr, WEllenson, Deonte, Cohen for time up front. I think he starts next to Fishcher. Heldt will be a freshman, back up big. I think STjr splits time backing up HEllenson and Luke. A backcourt of Duane and JJJ is solid. Haanif and NN will both be solid backups. I think Dawson (assuming he stays) gets time backing up both spots. I don't know what Wojo is thinking for the last schollie, but I would sure love to have a 1 year rental PG on the roster. All in all, that will be a very young, very balanced roster. The 'young' will be crucial. Don't expect perfection early.
Kids shot is smooth. I can see him being one of those players that other teams say "Hes only a junior?" he looks like he can be a pest.
Quote from: tower912 on December 03, 2014, 10:16:38 AM
Glad to see Nick tearing it up. I have learned over the years that if the freshmen have an instant impact, it is gravy. Having said that, I think that this class may have 3 impact freshmen. But even then, will they start. The only one that may start from day one is HEllenson. To do so, he is going to have to beat out STjr, WEllenson, Deonte, Cohen for time up front. I think he starts next to Fishcher. Heldt will be a freshman, back up big. I think STjr splits time backing up HEllenson and Luke. A backcourt of Duane and JJJ is solid. Haanif and NN will both be solid backups. I think Dawson (assuming he stays) gets time backing up both spots. I don't know what Wojo is thinking for the last schollie, but I would sure love to have a 1 year rental PG on the roster. All in all, that will be a very young, very balanced roster. The 'young' will be crucial. Don't expect perfection early.
A agree, a true point guard in spring, a graduate rent a year point guard would be nice. That way he still can have 2 kids the following year, that makes total sense. Needs to recruit a point
the following year anyway and probably a power forward for Taylor.
Sun Prairie 66,
Madison La Follette 61
Senior guard Nick Noskowiak scored 37 points, including six 3-pointers, as the host Cardinals (2-0, 1-0) defeated the Lancers (0-1, 0-1).
Sun Prairie hit 23 of its 26 free throws, and Madison La Follette only attempted four free throws total.
Senior guard Quinten Shere finished with 19 points and Darold Thomas added 15 for the Lancers.
Madison La Follette 8 14 17 22 — 61
Sun Prairie 16 11 18 21 — 66
MADISON LA FOLLETTE — Shere 19, Thomas 15, O'Brien 3, Bartz 2, Green 9, McCree 13. Totals 23 4-4 61.
SUN PRAIRIE — Noskowiak 37, Robinson 9, Black 2, Ruffin 15, Verstegen 3. Totals 18 23-26 66.
3-point goals — MLF 11 (Shere 3, Thomas 3, O'Brien 1, Green 3, McCree 1), SP 7 (Noskowiak 6, Ruffin 1). Total fouls — MLF 20, SP 12.
Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/high-school/basketball/boys/prep-boys-basketball-justice-leads-madison-east-past-madison-memorial/article_ff365a05-df00-53b2-8ff3-664f159d72b2.html#ixzz3Kr5AjJSQ
Wasn't expecting Noskowiak to be more than a backup G in his freshman season. If he keeps up this level of play all season, I may have to alter that expectation. Him and Duane bombing threes together could be a lethal combination
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 03, 2014, 11:18:14 AM
Wasn't expecting Noskowiak to be more than a backup G in his freshman season. If he keeps up this level of play all season, I may have to alter that expectation. Him and Duane bombing threes together could be a lethal combination
The speed of the college game is so far beyond what we see in that video - it is hard to say if he'll be ready as a freshman to play with all the other guard talent on the team. He definitely has nice form on his J which is a great foundation to have - yet he doesn't look like the type of athlete that will be ready as a freshman.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 12:16:37 PM
The speed of the college game is so far beyond what we see in that video - it is hard to say if he'll be ready as a freshman to play with all the other guard talent on the team. He definitely has nice form on his J which is a great foundation to have - yet he doesn't look like the type of athlete that will be ready as a freshman.
While he certainly isn't the athlete that some of the top college players in the country are, a good feel for the game and a good understanding of the game can make up for this in some situations. It takes a rare player from the neck up to make up for a lack of prime time athleticism, but some kids can do it. McDermott is an obvious extreme case, but if you go purely on athletic ability he isn't in the top half of college players last year, yet he was the best player in college basketball.
A recent player from Wisconsin who isn't overly athletic compared to other D1 basketball players but is playing really well to start his career is Riley LaChance. He's shooting 45% from the field, 37% from 3 point range, and averaging 11.3 points, 2.8 rebounds, and 2.7 assists per game in 31 minutes per game so far. He might've been the 7th best athlete on the court when they played King in the WIAA playoffs last year, yet he's proving he can be effective at an SEC school as a freshman. I haven't seen enough of Noskowiak to know for sure, but they do seem to have similar games on the offensive end of the court.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 03, 2014, 12:25:12 PM
While he certainly isn't the athlete that some of the top college players in the country are, a good feel for the game and a good understanding of the game can make up for this in some situations. It takes a rare player from the neck up to make up for a lack of prime time athleticism, but some kids can do it. McDermott is an obvious extreme case, but if you go purely on athletic ability he isn't in the top half of college players last year, yet he was the best player in college basketball.
A recent player from Wisconsin who isn't overly athletic compared to other D1 basketball players but is playing really well to start his career is Riley LaChance. He's shooting 45% from the field, 37% from 3 point range, and averaging 11.3 points, 2.8 rebounds, and 2.7 assists per game in 31 minutes per game so far. He might've been the 7th best athlete on the court when they played King in the WIAA playoffs last year, yet he's proving he can be effective at an SEC school as a freshman. I haven't seen enough of Noskowiak to know for sure, but they do seem to have similar games on the offensive end of the court.
I agree - it doesn't take elite athleticism to be effective at high major level. However, I do feel if you have elite athleticism (or skill for your size - such as Henry E) it greatly increases your chances to be able to play and contribute as a freshman.
I see Nick N as a player very much like Dawson. (Sorry to bring that up.) I think your above description describes Dawson quite well too - and it is part of the reason why I feel it isn't beyond crazy to think Wojo sees both Nick and John as very similar players thus creating a logjam at the position, and may be trying to "encourage" a transfer.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 03, 2014, 12:25:12 PM
While he certainly isn't the athlete that some of the top college players in the country are, a good feel for the game and a good understanding of the game can make up for this in some situations. It takes a rare player from the neck up to make up for a lack of prime time athleticism, but some kids can do it.
It seems like every March, 5-6 of these kids suddenly emerge that we had never heard about. Someone who slipped through the cracks but just has a great feel for the game. The top mid-major players often seem to be these types, guys who space the court well, have good defensive positioning, can shoot the lights out, and you know could play at a high-major level but never got the chance because they just don't fit the "mold".
I think the old staff prioritized athleticism and the ability to make highlight-reel plays over the more cerebral, feel-for-the-game players that might not jump out at you on film. Hence why we were never in on a kid like LaChance.
It seems like that focus is changing. I found it interesting that Wojo was so quick to lock up Cohen and Noskowiak, while immediately going hard after Heldt and Henry, but didn't seem to have much interest in other Buzz recruits like Pierce, Shayok, and Hill. Not saying those guys can't play, but maybe Wojo's talk about a cultural change also mean the way players read the game.
Someone else mentioned that our new staff probably wouldn't have recruited everyone on the current roster. I am confident that assessment is correct.
Y'all are talkin' outta the wrong orifice. Nick has 100x more basketball skill than Dawson.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 03, 2014, 10:16:20 AM
Of course, MU had a pretty good veteran (senior) point guard in place when Diener arrived. That won't be the case next year, when Wojo's options at the point will be Du. Wilson - who so far seems more of a swing player than a one - John Dawson and Noskowiak. In fact, I think Nick's best chance for significant PT has to be at the point because Wojo will have so many options at the 2/3, i.e. Duane, JJJ, Cheatham, Sandy, Wally, Deonte, and not so many at the 1.
As we've seen this season, Wojo is not beholden to the traditional "He's the 1, he's the 2, he's the 3" that some coaches are. And that could be even more the case next season.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 03, 2014, 12:59:29 PM
Y'all are talkin' outta the wrong oriface. Nick has 100x more basketball skill than Dawson.
My bad. I assume your assessment on Dawson comes from his time at MU last season, playing against D-1 players, while watching Nick play against Wisconsin high school kids/some AAU ball? Hard to project in my opinion...I've never seen Nick play live - just looking at his highlight clips - he seems like a good prospect, good feel for the game, not an elite athlete, which is the way I see Dawson. I'll say nothing more on the matter as I don't want to get 20% of this board up in arms. ;D
Quote from: MU82 on December 03, 2014, 01:09:16 PM
As we've seen this season, Wojo is not beholden to the traditional "He's the 1, he's the 2, he's the 3" that some coaches are. And that could be even more the case next season.
I'm not sure I agree. I think Wojo's willingness to stick with Derrick Wilson despite his shooting deficiencies shows me he puts a premium on having guy on the floor who's primary responsibility is that of a ball-handler and facilitator, i.e. a traditional 1.
Either way, though, I think seven games with a roster not of his making probably doesn't tell us a whole lot about Wojo's preferred approach to the game and lineups. We really won't have too much of an idea about such things until years 2-3 of his tenure.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 03, 2014, 12:59:29 PM
Y'all are talkin' outta the wrong orifice. Nick has 100x more basketball skill than Dawson.
I see absolutely no comparison, Nick is a better shooter, ball handler, passer, and has a better awareness of the game.
But, yeah..... other than that they are completely similar.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 01:11:11 PM
My bad. I assume your assessment on Dawson comes from his time at MU last season, playing against D-1 players, while watching Nick play against Wisconsin high school kids/some AAU ball? Hard to project in my opinion...I've never seen Nick play live - just looking at his highlight clips - he seems like a good prospect, good feel for the game, not an elite athlete, which is the way I see Dawson. I'll say nothing more on the matter as I don't want to get 20% of this board up in arms. ;D
I don't think it really matters much whether he's an elite athlete. There have been too many to count great college point guards who lacked elite athleticism ... including #1 and #3 on MU's all-time assist leaders list, and the current head coach.
That seems to indicate that elite athleticism is far down the list of prerequisites for success as a college 1.
Anyhow, this whole conversation reminds me of way back when the esteemed Murffeius (sp.?) declared Travis Diener a "dime-a-dozen" point guard after seeing some highlight video and determining he lacked the elite athleticism needed to be a difference maker in college.
nm
Don't give a sh*t how athletic he looks in a YouTube video. I've watched a couple of his games and the kid is a player. Crafty off the bounce, and is an above average outside shooter. He'll get quicker when Todd Smith gets him.
Whoever said that he might play similar minutes to TD as a freshman was spot on. He'll back up both guard spots and be a shooter off the bench. Maybe more if he defends well.
Did anyone watch Spike Albrecht in the Michigan game last night?
Quote from: illiniwarriors on December 03, 2014, 02:59:56 PM
Did anyone watch Spike Albrecht in the Michigan game last night?
Yes great game Cuse essentially handed it to Michigan at the end though.
Quote from: brandx on December 03, 2014, 01:23:49 PM
I see absolutely no comparison, Nick is a better shooter, ball handler, passer, and has a better awareness of the game.
But, yeah..... other than that they are completely similar.
LOL - In a HIGH SCHOOL highlight video where every shot goes in and good play is highlighted. Okay.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 03, 2014, 12:59:29 PM
Y'all are talkin' outta the wrong orifice. Nick has 100x more basketball skill than Dawson.
Magic Noskowiak???
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 03, 2014, 02:50:08 PM
Don't give a sh*t how athletic he looks in a YouTube video. I've watched a couple of his games and the kid is a player. Crafty off the bounce, and is an above average outside shooter. He'll get quicker when Todd Smith gets him.
Whoever said that he might play similar minutes to TD as a freshman was spot on. He'll back up both guard spots and be a shooter off the bench. Maybe more if he defends well.
I am in agreement with your assessment, and want to reinforce the notion that when he gets to working with Todd Smith and Company he will gain speed. The Thing I like the most about Nick is he has shown continuous upward improvement. That is a very good indication that he has a high ceiling. Most importantly not much is going to be expected from him as a freshman so he can continue to improve at a comfortable rate.
Nick is a gym rat. I saw Chris Mullin play in high school and no one ever cared if he was an elite athlete or not. He just had a head for the game. His team mate Mark Jackson was the same way. Haanif and Nick could be a modern day version of those two.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 12:42:45 PM
I see Nick N as a player very much like Dawson. (Sorry to bring that up.) I think your above description describes Dawson quite well too - and it is part of the reason why I feel it isn't beyond crazy to think Wojo sees both Nick and John as very similar players thus creating a logjam at the position, and may be trying to "encourage" a transfer.
Ners where did you get that Wojo is encouraging JD to transfer?
Quote from: Big Daddy Dillard on December 03, 2014, 05:34:05 PM
Ners where did you get that Wojo is encouraging JD to transfer?
Justification for why Dawson isn't playing to start the season. Because there's no chance that Wojo thinks Derrick is better than Dawson. Only explanation is that Wojo thinks Nick and Dawson are the same kind of player and wants to use Dawson's scholarship on a more athletic PG.
Quote from: Big Daddy Dillard on December 03, 2014, 05:34:05 PM
Ners where did you get that Wojo is encouraging JD to transfer?
From watching Buzz handle Jamal Ferguson. Jamail Jones. Steve Taylor. JJJ. Buzz knew he had Shayok and Hill in the wings and could plug/play them in place of Steve and JJJ if need be - then again not sure Buzz cared a whole lot by February 1.
From seeing the other young guards be wildly inconsistent (other than Duane the last 3 games), yet still logging time. Seeing Cohen and JJJ having more length/perceived upside. Dawson not being a prototypical PG. 4 minutes of PT thus far on a team with little depth.
Is Wojo Buzz? Obviously not. But, to think Dawson got more run during Big East play last season than he is getting this season is quite peculiar to say the least, no?
Do you feel "encouraged transfers" take place, though not always verbally expressed?
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 05:52:15 PM
From watching Buzz handle Jamal Ferguson. Jamail Jones. Steve Taylor. JJJ. Buzz knew he had Shayok and Hill in the wings and could plug/play them in place of Steve and JJJ if need be
Jamal Ferguson had to transfer to a MEAC school to get playing time. Jamail Jones had to transfer to the Atlantic Sun to find playing time. They didn't play because they weren't good enough. Taylor and JJJ I have heard clashed with Buzz. Some I have talked to blame Buzz, some blame the players. Its probably a little bit of both. Plus, we have seen proof of major lapses in both of their games this season. It stands to reason that those lapses were there last season and were even worse.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 05:52:15 PM
then again not sure Buzz cared a whole lot by February 1.
Cared very much. Was desperately trying to win so he could either demand more from Marquette or bolt.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 05:52:15 PM
But, to think Dawson got more run during Big East play last season than he is getting this season is quite peculiar to say the least, no?
Not really. Last season we only had two guys who could play the PG position. This season we have four. Dawson appears to be the worst of the four. We also have four players who can play the SG position, Dawson appears to be the worst of the four there as well. Plus, Dawson got playing time in the only game where we ever had a comfortable lead. The other games were close and required our best players. I bet we will see him during the stretch of cupcakes after the ASU game.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 05:52:15 PM
Do you feel "encouraged transfers" take place, though not always verbally expressed?
Yes but not in the way you are shaping it. I think there is a big difference between "encouraging a transfer" by nailing a kid to the bench for no other reason and being honest with the kid and saying "unless you make massive improvements, you will not earn playing time on this team. If playing time is your priority, you may want to look at transferring to a mid-major."
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 05:52:15 PM
Is Wojo Buzz? Obviously not.
This is the key point to me. Wojo has stressed being genuine, open communication, and player relationships. It could be all coach speak, but everything I have heard, everyone I talk to, and talking to CoWojo himself leads me to believe that he is the real deal.
KISS, keep it simple, stupid (using a turn of phrase, not calling you stupid). No conspiracy theories. Just the simple reality that some players aren't good enough to earn playing time.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 03, 2014, 06:05:31 PM
Jamal Ferguson had to transfer to a MEAC school to get playing time. Jamail Jones had to transfer to the Atlantic Sun to find playing time. They didn't play because they weren't good enough. Taylor and JJJ I have heard clashed with Buzz. Some I have talked to blame Buzz, some blame the players. Its probably a little bit of both. Plus, we have seen proof of major lapses in both of their games this season. It stands to reason that those lapses were there last season and were even worse.
Cared very much. Was desperately trying to win so he could either demand more from Marquette or bolt.
Not really. Last season we only had two guys who could play the PG position. This season we have four. Dawson appears to be the worst of the four. We also have four players who can play the SG position, Dawson appears to be the worst of the four there as well. Plus, Dawson got playing time in the only game where we ever had a comfortable lead. The other games were close and required our best players. I bet we will see him during the stretch of cupcakes after the ASU game.
Yes but not in the way you are shaping it. I think there is a big difference between "encouraging a transfer" by nailing a kid to the bench for no other reason and being honest with the kid and saying "unless you make massive improvements, you will not earn playing time on this team. If playing time is your priority, you may want to look at transferring to a mid-major."
This is the key point to me. Wojo has stressed being genuine, open communication, and player relationships. It could be all coach speak, but everything I have heard, everyone I talk to, and talking to CoWojo himself leads me to believe that he is the real deal.
KISS, keep it simple, stupid (using a turn of phrase, not calling you stupid). No conspiracy theories. Just the simple reality that some players aren't good enough to earn playing time.
All fine points you make TAMU. That said, the best way you alienate a kid is to nail him to the bench. To not even get a chance when the other guards have all struggled as well - and when you've shown you can produce at this level - if given time. A very frustrating situation to be in, if you ask me. Hell Juan had lots of struggles over the course of his career yet Buzz would give him some time.
Perhaps I'm very wrong on Dawson. Guess we'll find out over the next 4 years one way or another. :D
Quote from: Pakuni on December 03, 2014, 01:19:41 PM
I'm not sure I agree. I think Wojo's willingness to stick with Derrick Wilson despite his shooting deficiencies shows me he puts a premium on having guy on the floor who's primary responsibility is that of a ball-handler and facilitator, i.e. a traditional 1.
Either way, though, I think seven games with a roster not of his making probably doesn't tell us a whole lot about Wojo's preferred approach to the game and lineups. We really won't have too much of an idea about such things until years 2-3 of his tenure.
He does seem to prefer Derrick as the primary ballhandler, true, but there have been lots and lots of times when all three have been in the game and Derrick has not had the ball.
You make a lot of sense with your second paragraph. It is too early to know what Wojo will do when he has "his guys."
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 05:11:42 PM
LOL - In a HIGH SCHOOL highlight video where every shot goes in and good play is highlighted. Okay.
I've seen Nick play several times.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 03, 2014, 05:42:44 PM
Justification for why Dawson isn't playing to start the season. Because there's no chance that Wojo thinks Derrick is better than Dawson. Only explanation is that Wojo thinks Nick and Dawson are the same kind of player and wants to use Dawson's scholarship on a more athletic PG.
He's gotta cover his butt for several thousand posts. None of us know if Dawson will ever transfer or not. But, hey, let's talk about it anyway (at least according to Ners). At this point, there is no one on the board with LESS credibility.
Quote from: brandx on December 03, 2014, 06:20:13 PM
I've seen Nick play several times.
Against high school players.. ::)
Quote from: brandx on December 03, 2014, 06:23:39 PM
He's gotta cover his butt for several thousand posts. None of us know if Dawson will ever transfer or not. But, hey, let's talk about it anyway (at least according to Ners). At this point, there is no one on the board with LESS credibility.
Exaggerate much?
And yea, my bad on the credibility issue saying in late November last year we didn't have a chance at the NCAA if Buzz didn't change things up...and that we didn't stand a chance at winning playing 4-5, with the missing offensive player being the PG.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
Against high school players.. ::)
News flash, he is in high school. Who would you expect him to be playing against? I think the Bulls schedule is pretty filled up.
Seriously Ners, can't you keep your Dawson crap in the threads about Dawson?
Quote from: buckchuckler on December 03, 2014, 08:02:08 PM
News flash, he is in high school. Who would you expect him to be playing against? I think the Bulls schedule is pretty filled up.
New flash - Brandx made judgements of one player, playing against Big East competition, and the other...well..playing against high school players. Not that hard to follow, but then again, I should know better considering..it's you.
Nevermind. No need to give you more attention and give you more reasons to spew insanity.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 09:48:21 PM
New flash - Brandx made judgements of one player, playing against Big East competition, and the other...well..playing against high school players. Not that hard to follow, but then again, I should know better considering..it's you.
Well, my judgement matches what the scouts said. Nick is a 4-star. Dawson a 2-star. And Nick played very well over the summer against quite a few guys who will be in the NBA - and the scouts that watched him go against those players still rated him as a 4-star.
Go back to coaching your 4th grade girls team. We discuss real BB here.
Quote from: buckchuckler on December 03, 2014, 10:16:57 PM
Nevermind. No need to give you more attention and give you more reasons to spew insanity.
Too bad, that was a great retort 8-)
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 03, 2014, 09:48:21 PM
New flash - Brandx made judgements of one player, playing against Big East competition, and the other...well..playing against high school players. Not that hard to follow, but then again, I should know better considering..it's you.
...after you brought up Wojo "encouraging Dawson to transfer" in a thread about Noskowiak.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 03, 2014, 11:44:56 PM
Too bad, that was a great retort 8-)
Haha. Well thank you.
Quote from: brandx on December 03, 2014, 11:42:00 PM
Well, my judgement matches what the scouts said. Nick is a 4-star. Dawson a 2-star. And Nick played very well over the summer against quite a few guys who will be in the NBA - and the scouts that watched him go against those players still rated him as a 4-star.
Go back to coaching your 4th grade girls team. We discuss real BB here.
Okay tough guy. And Jamail Jones was a 4-star. Erik Williams a 4 star. Jae Crowder a 2-star, Davante Gardner a 2-star. John Dawson a 3-star btw. Newflash - those guys get it wrong sometimes too - and I'm not saying they are wrong about Nick - but when dealing with Top 75-200 players it is a lot more dicey than pegging the Top 30 or even Top 50.
It's amazing - I like Nick as a prospect - just given his Top 100 status alone. I haven't ever seen the kid play. Made an observation off of looking at his highlight video (where every player looks like a star...because...it's a freaking highlight video). He looks like a fundamentally sound player, with a nice shot and good feel for the game. Yet until I see the guy do it at the college level, it's hard for me to say he's 100 times better player/prospect than one of our current players.
I'll see what I can do to up my game to "discuss real BB" here. Hopefully I can just get close to your level of genius. What was your pre-season prediction for this MU team, btw?
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 04, 2014, 07:46:59 AM
Okay tough guy. And Jamail Jones was a 4-star. Erik Williams a 4 star. Jae Crowder a 2-star, Davante Gardner a 2-star. John Dawson a 3-star btw. Newflash - those guys get it wrong sometimes too - and I'm not saying they are wrong about Nick - but when dealing with Top 75-200 players it is a lot more dicey than pegging the Top 30 or even Top 50.
It's amazing - I like Nick as a prospect - just given his Top 100 status alone. I haven't ever seen the kid play. Made an observation off of looking at his highlight video (where every player looks like a star...because...it's a freaking highlight video). He looks like a fundamentally sound player, with a nice shot and good feel for the game. Yet until I see the guy do it at the college level, it's hard for me to say he's 100 times better player/prospect than one of our current players.
Let's get something straight.
YOU were the one who (yet again) brought up Dawson. YOU were the one who (yet again) brought up the "encouraging transfer" theory.
Don't blame everyone else for comparing the two and saying you are full of it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 04, 2014, 09:12:34 AM
Let's get something straight.
YOU were the one who (yet again) brought up Dawson. YOU were the one who (yet again) brought up the "encouraging transfer" theory.
Don't blame everyone else for comparing the two and saying you are full of it.
Wait,
Ners likes Dawson and wants him to play more?? The hell you say. Next you are go to tell me he thinks Derrick Wilson is a drag on the team and can't shoot.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 04, 2014, 09:12:34 AM
Let's get something straight.
YOU were the one who (yet again) brought up Dawson. YOU were the one who (yet again) brought up the "encouraging transfer" theory.
Don't blame everyone else for comparing the two and saying you are full of it.
I'm saying it is ridiculous to suggest a kid is 100x the prospect of a current member of the MU team (that you've only seen play at the high major level), based on watching that kid play against high school competition.
Every high major player looks like a total star at the high school level - then they get to high major ball, and can look VERY pedestrian/non-descript.
Get off your whole hate woody about anytime I make a Dawson mention - Jesus. It was an honest assessment of Nick's game based on watching a freaking highlight video. He strikes me as a similar player to John (who I obviously like a lot - which in turn means I like what I see with Nick N.)
That said, I think what Wojo probably wants/feels he needs most for next season is a burner at PG - someone ultra-quick, as he seems to thing Duane is best off the ball.
My take - he should be grooming Duane for the PG slot right now, and turn that position over to him next season, as he is the quickest of the guards. Watching how this team plays as it is, just because you are a primary ball handler, doesn't mean you don't get to operate off the ball a fair amount.
If Duane is going to play at the next level, it's as a PG, not a 2 guard in the NBA - so best for his future development to play as much PG as possible, and think he'd be great at that position. Then next year Wojo can have any of Nick, Dawson, Cheatham, Cohen, JJJ to run alongside Duane...
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 04, 2014, 09:31:02 AM
My take - he should be grooming Duane for the PG slot right now, and turn that position over to him next season, as he is the quickest of the guards. Watching how this team plays as it is, just because you are a primary ball handler, doesn't mean you don't get to operate off the ball a fair amount.
If Duane is going to play at the next level, it's as a PG, not a 2 guard in the NBA - so best for his future development to play as much PG as possible, and think he'd be great at that position. Then next year Wojo can have any of Nick, Dawson, Cheatham, Cohen, JJJ to run alongside Duane...
I don't think it really is Wojo's job to prepare Duane for the NBA. It is his job to put each player in the best role for Marquette to succeed, both in the present and the future. For example, Buzz needed Jimmy at power forward (and even center occasionally) for Marquette to win; it was Jimmy's all-around improvement that led him to the NBA -- and eventually to being one of the better 2G in the league.
The NBA will hire Duane if they think he is good enough, just as they hired Wes, Lazar, Jimmy, Jae and, eventually, even Buycks. And they'll reject him if 30 GMs don't think he is good enough, just as they rejected Vander, McNeal, Jamil, etc.
By putting Duane in the best position for him and the team to succeed -- which is a coach's job with every player -- Wojo will make Duane a plenty attractive NBA candidate as long as Duane does what he's supposed to do.
Otherwise, I happen to agree with Ners here. I would like the ball in Duane's hands some more because I think that would benefit this team both this season and beyond.
Playing in the heat of the action will help Duane become a better PG. It also will help Wojo learn if Duane should be a PG or a 2G, long-term. If Duane really takes off at the position, and with NN coming in, it can alleviate some of the pressure Wojo might feel to bring in another PG. If Duane struggles more than expected, it can reinforce in Wojo's mind that he needs a true PG.
That doesn't mean Duane has to play 30-35 minutes at PG. We have seen that Carlino and Derrick have value, as do JJJ and to a lesser extent Cohen.
If Duane plays 30 minutes and 15-20 are at PG, it could have the quadruple benefit of helping Duane progress as a PG, helping Wojo evaluate Duane's PG play, helping the team now and helping the team in the future.
Wojo has used Duane some at PG. I'd like to see more, and obviously so would Ners. And I'm guessing a few others would, too.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 04, 2014, 09:31:02 AM
I'm saying it is ridiculous to suggest a kid is 100x the prospect of a current member of the MU team (that you've only seen play at the high major level), based on watching that kid play against high school competition.
Every high major player looks like a total star at the high school level - then they get to high major ball, and can look VERY pedestrian/non-descript.
Get off your whole hate woody about anytime I make a Dawson mention - Jesus. It was an honest assessment of Nick's game based on watching a freaking highlight video. He strikes me as a similar player to John (who I obviously like a lot - which in turn means I like what I see with Nick N.)
That said, I think what Wojo probably wants/feels he needs most for next season is a burner at PG - someone ultra-quick, as he seems to thing Duane is best off the ball.
My take - he should be grooming Duane for the PG slot right now, and turn that position over to him next season, as he is the quickest of the guards. Watching how this team plays as it is, just because you are a primary ball handler, doesn't mean you don't get to operate off the ball a fair amount.
If Duane is going to play at the next level, it's as a PG, not a 2 guard in the NBA - so best for his future development to play as much PG as possible, and think he'd be great at that position. Then next year Wojo can have any of Nick, Dawson, Cheatham, Cohen, JJJ to run alongside Duane...
1. "100x" - it's always easier to argue with someone when you make things up to argue with.
2. Wojo thinks Duane is best off the ball? Maybe he just thinks that 2 other guards who have been playing for 3 years are better suited for the position than a freshman who has only played a handful of games. And as a person with a great coaching mind, you should be able to see that Duane spends part of his time running the offense. And Duane is the definition of ultra-quick. (But he probably looks similar to Dawson to you.)
3. Like Duane, Nick is a PG who may also play some '2' guard.
4. A psychiatrist could have a field day with your reference to me as a "tough guy". My feeling is that if you think of me as tough, then it justifies your illusion of yourself as a man because you are standing up to a "tough guy".
Maybe you can start a new thread about Derrick or John to discuss this more ::)
Quote from: brandx on December 04, 2014, 03:32:58 PM
1. "100x" - it's always easier to argue with someone when you make things up to argue with.
2. Wojo thinks Duane is best off the ball? Maybe he just thinks that 2 other guards who have been playing for 3 years are better suited for the position than a freshman who has only played a handful of games. And as a person with a great coaching mind, you should be able to see that Duane spends part of his time running the offense. And Duane is the definition of ultra-quick. (But he probably looks similar to Dawson to you.)
3. Like Duane, Nick is a PG who may also play some '2' guard.
4. A psychiatrist could have a field day with your reference to me as a "tough guy". My feeling is that if you think of me as tough, then it justifies your illusion of yourself as a man because you are standing up to a "tough guy".
Maybe you can start a new thread about Derrick or John to discuss this more ::)
1) Huh? 4ever made the 100x comment, which you chose to quote and tack on - Nick is a better shooter, dribbler, passer than Dawson.
(I pointed out that you make that assessment having watched Nick play against High School players, and Dawson against High Major players.) But feel free to think what you see of a High Major recruit playing against high school kids is the same as what it's going to be against High Major players. A high major recruit, as I'm sure you know, looks like a man among boys playing at the high school level.
2) Duh. Yes, Duane gets time with the ball in his hands as do Carlino and Derrick - And yes, I see Duane as ultra quick - which is why I suggested and want for him to be full time PG as I feel he could handle that position quite well this year, and looking to next year's roster there doesn't appear to be a pure point guard on the roster. Wojo through his comments has said he sees him as a combo guard and but likes him at the 2.
3) Unlike Duane, Nick is not ultra quick - which is something I prefer a PG possess. Again, why I see Nick N as more of a 2, much like Dawson who isn't ultra quick either. Cohen isn't ever going to be a PG. Nor will Cheatham. All those guys can handle the ball and play guard slots, but it's best if they are paired with a very quick PG/Combo Guard - Duane is clearly that guy.
4) Clearly you don't detect sarcasm well. I don't think you are a tough guy whatsoever.
5) Generally I feel you make good basketball related points and have a good understanding of the game. In this thread I simply disagreed that to assess a player at the high school level being MUCH better than a guy you've only seen play at the high major level is a slippery slope at best.
6) Lastly, do you not feel with Duane, Nick, Cohen, Cheatham and Dawson next season - our backcourt will be quite cluttered with 4 of the 5 being best suited to play the 2 or perhaps 3? Is it beyond crazy to think Wojo might want to diversify that guard mix and "trade out" one of those guys for a pure PG?
7) Not surprised to see you had no comment for the 4 star ratings of Jamail, Erik Williams, while Gardner and Crowder were considered 2 stars...sometimes Scouts get it wrong too. (And I'm not saying that is the case with Nick - I'm saying it is foolish to assess a player's ability when watching him play against high school kids, compared to the other whom you've only see play against high major players.)
Nick N dropped 44 tonight with EIGHT threes ladies and gents. The future is bright!
Mark Miller @WisBBYearbook · 4m 4 minutes ago
Nick Noskowiak of Sun Prairie went 9 of 14 from three-point range tonight in 71-63 win over Beloit Memorial.
Mark Miller @WisBBYearbook · 13m 13 minutes ago
Marquette recruit Nick Noskowiak with 44 points tonight to help Sun Prairie turn back host Beloit Memorial 71-63.
Quote from: mubb34 on December 05, 2014, 09:58:16 PM
Nick N dropped 44 tonight with EIGHT NINE threes ladies and gents. The future is bright!
FIFY
Future is definitely bright!