Hope Wojo makes the zone the primary defense for this team going forward. We played that zone quite well today, and the more we play the better we should get in it. The guys were rotating really well within the zone, much better job limiting gaps/shooting windows tonight as opposed to MSU game.
Zone creates some challenges with regard to controlling the Defensive Board, yet it has absolutely shut off the repeated break downs off of penetration we saw with our man-to-man D.
Gonna be tough against Wisky but maybe they'll be ice cold on saturday.
Agreed. This team has improved dramatically since Wojo implemented the zone. Wisky will be a handful no matter how we play them, so we might as well play the zone and see what happens.
I think the zone is really the only option at this point and not really a bad one as is.
Our guys are so much more active and the guys who need work on D(JJJ, Duane, Deonte) all are able to use the couple of strengths the do have much more(jump passes, deflections and quick swipes on steals).
This game will not be fun. What, they have about 5 inches on us at each position (hyperbole intended).
I don't know about "from here on out", but for Wisconsin, yes....
Quote from: NersEllenson on November 30, 2014, 05:16:32 PM
Hope Wojo makes the zone the primary defense for this team going forward. We played that zone quite well today, and the more we play the better we should get in it. The guys were rotating really well within the zone, much better job limiting gaps/shooting windows tonight as opposed to MSU game.
Zone creates some challenges with regard to controlling the Defensive Board, yet it has absolutely shut off the repeated break downs off of penetration we saw with our man-to-man D.
Absolutely agree. It's the only defense that makes sense for our team, and that will still be the case when Luke joins our lads.
There are negatives to any defense, and you are 100% correct about the challenges playing a zone creates, but every coach has to pick his poison.
The best thing about Bucky is the worst thing that can possibly happen is we are right. UW comes in and blasts us by 25+. And if so, well...so? They are #2 in the country and SHOULD do that to us. A few trolls will talk about beating all our top-100 players, but we know that's coming because that's what they live for, no matter how much they try to pull that BS "not a rival" crap.
But what if that doesn't happen? What if the zone works and they are cold from the arc? What if Duane and Carlino are both hot and we limit mistakes? Maybe we can keep it close. Maybe we can...
Probably not, but remember this is just a 31-game learning process and don't sweat the losses. We already have 2 more high-major non-conference wins than all last season. Enjoy the process.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 30, 2014, 06:39:46 PM
The best thing about Bucky is the worst thing that can possibly happen is we are right. UW comes in and blasts us by 25+. And if so, well...so? They are #2 in the country and SHOULD do that to us. A few trolls will talk about beating all our top-100 players, but we know that's coming because that's what they live for, no matter how much they try to pull that BS "not a rival" crap.
But what if that doesn't happen? What if the zone works and they are cold from the arc? What if Duane and Carlino are both hot and we limit mistakes? Maybe we can keep it close. Maybe we can...
Probably not, but remember this is just a 31-game learning process and don't sweat the losses. We already have 2 more high-major non-conference wins than all last season. Enjoy the process.
That makes me happy. And sad.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 30, 2014, 06:46:11 PM
That makes me happy. And sad.
All about the next line. Enjoy the process 8-)
Wish we used this zone vs Omaha.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 30, 2014, 07:25:00 PM
Wish we used this zone vs Omaha.
Omaha game may turn out to be a huge God-send of sorts as it exploited our man to man weaknesses so incredibly - it practically forced Wojo to evaluate playing a zone D.
I'm impressed with the quality of our Zone at this point, considering how little time the team and staff have probably focused on it - as Wojo wanted to be a man-to-man team - which tells me he probably spent more time drilling man fundamentals than zone. Good news is Wojo is adaptable, and it seems the staff has a very good handle on zone D fundamentals. Feel this zone has looked better than any I recall Buzz running.
Also, while it's still a buy game, Omaha has moved into the top-200 on Pomeroy's rankings. We are their best win, but they did beat Nevada and gave Nebraska a bit of a game. Clearly it's not a good loss, but based on their play so far, UNO is actually a decent team.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 30, 2014, 10:34:07 PM
Also, while it's still a buy game, Omaha has moved into the top-200 on Pomeroy's rankings. We are their best win, but they did beat Nevada and gave Nebraska a bit of a game. Clearly it's not a good loss, but based on their play so far, UNO is actually a decent team.
O no doubt. I know they are not real bad by any stretch. Watched them play the gophers tough at the barn last year as well.
Just a shame now after a nice 2-1 weekend because if things go to script from here on out for the non conference 3 losses(vs 3 top BIG 10 teams) looks better than 4(adding a buy game loss in there).
Obviously can't do anyting now but ahhhhhh!!!
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 30, 2014, 10:42:25 PM
O no doubt. I know they are not real bad by any stretch. Watched them play the gophers tough at the barn last year as well.
Just a shame now after a nice 2-1 weekend because if things go to script from here on out for the non conference 3 losses(vs 3 top BIG 10 teams) looks better than 4(adding a buy game loss in there).
Obviously can't do anyting now but ahhhhhh!!!
If the thought is resume building, 8-4 is good enough that we will be able to make up enough ground in the league that we can still get an at-large. It would probably take an 11-7 league record, maybe a win or 2 at MSG as well, but that would get us in.
Here's one thing to remember. The way the league as a whole has played has not gone unnoticed. There's a good chance Butler will be ranked next week. Providence and Georgetown are knocking on the door. St. John's, Creighton, and Seton Hall have all done enough to at least get noticed. The problem last year was that if you wanted a resume-building win, you had to beat Villanova or Creighton. This year, because of the league's great start, there are already 4 teams that will give legitimate resume-building wins once conference play rolls around.
If we protect our home floor, go at least 7-2 in league and get 11 wins overall, I think that would do it considering how soft the bubble has been and how strong the league is right now. Of course, it is WAY too early to be thinking such things, but the advantage of being fans is that we can think about stupid NCAA scenarios 4 months in advance.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 30, 2014, 10:53:49 PM
If the thought is resume building, 8-4 is good enough that we will be able to make up enough ground in the league that we can still get an at-large. It would probably take an 11-7 league record, maybe a win or 2 at MSG as well, but that would get us in.
Here's one thing to remember. The way the league as a whole has played has not gone unnoticed. There's a good chance Butler will be ranked next week. Providence and Georgetown are knocking on the door. St. John's, Creighton, and Seton Hall have all done enough to at least get noticed. The problem last year was that if you wanted a resume-building win, you had to beat Villanova or Creighton. This year, because of the league's great start, there are already 4 teams that will give legitimate resume-building wins once conference play rolls around.
If we protect our home floor, go at least 7-2 in league and get 11 wins overall, I think that would do it considering how soft the bubble has been and how strong the league is right now. Of course, it is WAY too early to be thinking such things, but the advantage of being fans is that we can think about stupid NCAA scenarios 4 months in advance.
Yup you are right. 8-4 is technically still ok but as you said it means probably 11-7 forsure. I think a 3 loss non con with no bad losses can possibly 9-9 if we win a BET game or two and 10-10 is good.
We are obviously a long way from being a tourney team but if Luke really does make a difference for the defense things are not grim. I think even with Lukes best case we are still around 7-11 to 9-9.
But, I really think this team will be capable of winning 3 straight at the Garden. Might need some help and have SHU take down Nova again. But other than that theres a shot.
Long ways to go lets hope the improvements come.
Any chance a blizzard hits Milwaukee next week forcing a week delay in the game so Fischer is eligible?
No. Looks like the calmest weather week in the last month.
Quote from: NersEllenson on November 30, 2014, 05:16:32 PM
Hope Wojo makes the zone the primary defense for this team going forward. We played that zone quite well today, and the more we play the better we should get in it. The guys were rotating really well within the zone, much better job limiting gaps/shooting windows tonight as opposed to MSU game.
Zone creates some challenges with regard to controlling the Defensive Board, yet it has absolutely shut off the repeated break downs off of penetration we saw with our man-to-man D.
Agree. We give up some rebounding and we allow too many good looks from three in the zone, but that is better than giving up a barrage of layups. Plus, despite our size we are veruy active/disruptive in the passing lanes from the zone. It is our best defense now, at any rate.
Quote from: NersEllenson on November 30, 2014, 05:16:32 PM
Hope Wojo makes the zone the primary defense for this team going forward. We played that zone quite well today, and the more we play the better we should get in it. The guys were rotating really well within the zone, much better job limiting gaps/shooting windows tonight as opposed to MSU game.
Zone creates some challenges with regard to controlling the Defensive Board, yet it has absolutely shut off the repeated break downs off of penetration we saw with our man-to-man D.
Agreed. And with how bad our rebounding was already, not sure going zone really affects it all that much on the defensive end.
Do we think once Luke is available that we will still be sticking with the zone as the primary defense? I'm really not sure and tossing this out there, as I think man defense might be a viable option again as we would have someone in the middle to block/alter shots as well as collect rebounds.
Not saying we will play more man at all or not, but just looking to see what others' thoughts are on that.
Quote from: WarriorInNYC on December 01, 2014, 10:15:04 AM
Agreed. And with how bad our rebounding was already, not sure going zone really affects it all that much on the defensive end.
Do we think once Luke is available that we will still be sticking with the zone as the primary defense? I'm really not sure and tossing this out there, as I think man defense might be a viable option again as we would have someone in the middle to block/alter shots as well as collect rebounds.
Not saying we will play more man at all or not, but just looking to see what others' thoughts are on that.
Luke returning, in my opinion, shouldn't affect Wojo's decision-making with regard to which D to run. Yes, having Luke would put a rim protector in place to help offset continued break downs in man to man off of dribble drive penetration - yet the zone has so effectively shut that off - I see no reason to change. Plus, Luke should help in the rebounding department being the center position of the 2-3 zone.
Repetition and consistency create efficiency and improvement. The more consistent Wojo is in his approach - sticking to the zone and not deviating - the better we should become in it. Boheim has made a killing sticking to the 2-3 hell or highwater. With the right personnel it is a very good choice as a defense. Hope Wojo sticks with it all season.
Quote from: WarriorInNYC on December 01, 2014, 10:15:04 AM
Agreed. And with how bad our rebounding was already, not sure going zone really affects it all that much on the defensive end.
Do we think once Luke is available that we will still be sticking with the zone as the primary defense? I'm really not sure and tossing this out there, as I think man defense might be a viable option again as we would have someone in the middle to block/alter shots as well as collect rebounds.
Not saying we will play more man at all or not, but just looking to see what others' thoughts are on that.
Depends who is in the lineup. If there is a Steve and Luke combo I see going man because I dont think Steve can close out quick enough on the wings. If Steve is on the bench, I think Wojo sticks with zone just to protect guards like Duane and Carlino.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 01, 2014, 10:19:20 AM
Luke returning, in my opinion, shouldn't affect Wojo's decision-making with regard to which D to run. Yes, having Luke would put a rim protector in place to help offset continued break downs in man to man off of dribble drive penetration - yet the zone has so effectively shut that off - I see no reason to change. Plus, Luke should help in the rebounding department being the center position of the 2-3 zone.
Repetition and consistency create efficiency and improvement. The more consistent Wojo is in his approach - sticking to the zone and not deviating - the better we should become in it. Boheim has made a killing sticking to the 2-3 hell or highwater. With the right personnel it is a very good choice as a defense. Hope Wojo sticks with it all season.
I agree completely with this. Getting Luke into the lineup won't turn Jajuan, Deonte, Duane, or Carlino into good man defenders. All these players have been more effective with the defensive shift. I think we eventually will move to man but probably not until next year. Fischer may allow us to occasionally mix things up with man, maybe alongside Derrick, Duane, Sandy, and Juan. But based on this personnel, zone should definitely be the primary.
I'm a little late to this conversation (I didn't really have consistent access in Florida), but wanted to throw in my two cents.
I loved the zone D in Orlando--was great against GT and Tennessee, and had some really good moments against MSU.
But, we also need to be flexible--I thought we should have switched back to man-to-man at the beginning of the second half against MSU, as I expected Izzo to have them really prepped for it. Sure enough, a few minutes go by, they hit a couple of well-designed corner threes, and all of a sudden we were in a hole. We switched shortly after back to man and forced a couple of turnovers/bad shots. Helped us climb back in, but not enough at that point.
All that said, I like the idea of using the zone as the base defense. But, need to be ready to switch out of it when a team is hitting outside or learning how to exploit the gaps. Throw some man at the them for a few possessions, then switch back.
I mentioned it in the podcast, but I think we will play some man as well as zone, but a different man than what we played prior to the Orlando Classic. Wojo wants to play a high energy, extended man D but without a rim protector and too many players inexperienced at helping on extended man D it go scorched. It doesn't help that UNO and NJIT are two of the fastest playing teams in D1.
Wojo, when they go man, will have more of a sag D, which like the zone makes the team susceptible to outside shooting(not good against Becky) but it will limit the looks at the rim. With Fischer coming in, that gives a rim protector which will allow them to extend the D a little but they won't overplay like they were.
I think by the end of the season the team is 50/50 man and zone.
JJJ, Deonte, Duane and Carlino are so much better suited for zone than man. Each has very active hands and fairly quick feet (in Duane and JJJ's case, very quick feet), and each can create turnovers with deflections in a team-defense situation.
Put them in man and they are below-average defenders.
Zone is a no-brainer with this year's team. Doesn't mean Wojo can't or shouldn't mix it up with a little m-t-m or box-and-1 or whatever just to give the offense something different to look at, but this year's roster screams "ZONE!"
Quote from: MU82 on December 03, 2014, 08:47:35 AM
JJJ, Deonte, Duane and Carlino are so much better suited for zone than man. Each has very active hands and fairly quick feet (in Duane and JJJ's case, very quick feet), and each can create turnovers with deflections in a team-defense situation.
Put them in man and they are below-average defenders.
Zone is a no-brainer with this year's team. Doesn't mean Wojo can't or shouldn't mix it up with a little m-t-m or box-and-1 or whatever just to give the offense something different to look at, but this year's roster screams "ZONE!"
I agree with this assessment.