MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: spartan3186 on November 16, 2007, 02:16:55 PM

Title: Otule
Post by: spartan3186 on November 16, 2007, 02:16:55 PM
Ready 2 Fly posted this in a different thread but I though it probably deserved its own thread...

Otules first game

16 points.... 12 rebounds.... 10 blocks
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 16, 2007, 02:21:43 PM
Considering he only posted season averages of 5.0 points, 7.5 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game as a junior, this is GREAT news.

All reports indicate he has great talent, and just had to get used to his new body, and a different position.  Crean said (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=4520.0) he made up his mind on a offer after only watching 10 or 15 min of him - and I think it's easy to see why.  He was under-recruited because of his growth spurt, but I think he may end being a top 25 recruit by the end of this year.

Title: Re: Otule
Post by: 4thAndState on November 16, 2007, 02:24:51 PM
It will be interesting to see what type of competition he did that on and wether he can sustain throughout the season. But . . . for someone who averaged 5 ppg last year as a junior, this is very positive. Chris truly fits the definition of a late bloomer. I am very pleased with the recruiting class: we've filled needs 1 - 5 (when you factor in TM as a 4). From where we were at 6:20 p.m. on Oct. 18 (when Shumpert picked GT) to where we are today . . . well, that seems like a bad dream that MU moved quickly by.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: LastWarrior on November 16, 2007, 02:59:33 PM
From where we were at 6:20 p.m. on Oct. 18 (when Shumpert picked GT) to where we are today . . . well, that seems like a bad dream that MU moved quickly by.

That was a record day for MUScoop... the most users online ever!  311 folks online for that decision!  Amazing!! 
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Ready2Fly on November 16, 2007, 03:12:32 PM
Oops, I inflated it by 2 boards. 

But I was really pumped to see that stat line.  I think Otule is a diamond in the rough who will no longer be "in the rough" by the end of his senior year. 

Freshman year I expect him to battle Burke for the starting role immediately, and by the end of his tunure he'll rival RJax for the title of the best center during the Crean era.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: muarmy81 on November 16, 2007, 03:42:00 PM
FWIW Otule's team smoked Lamar Consolidated by 22 pts. (68-46)  Chris was the second leading scorer with 16.  I don't know how big Lamar's players were but I think they play in a smaller division than Otule's team.

And Erik Williams is noted as a top district player for his team. (which is heavily favored to do well this year)  Sounds very promising...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/hso/5293741.html
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: MU Chi_IL on November 16, 2007, 04:00:15 PM
I took a look at last years draft prospects and here are the people with similar body types to Otule.  If the reports of his measurements and athleticism are correct, I think he his going to be a great player with a few years of coaching and training. 


similar body types to otule
6-10    Mohamed Abukar    Florida, San Diego State United States    Forward Senior    229
6-10    Luksa Andric    Cibona Zagreb    Croatia    Forward    International Draft Eligible    240
6-10    Craig Bradshaw    Winthrop    New Zealand    Center    Senior    240
6-10    Jermareo Davidson    Alabama    United States    Forward    Senior    230
6-10    Lamont Hamilton    St. John’s    United States    Forward    Senior    255
6-10    Herbert Hill    Providence    United States    Forward/Center    Senior    240
6-10    Al Horford    Florida    United States    Forward/Center    Junior    245
6-10    Marko Lekic    KK Nis Vojvodina (Serbia & Montenegro)    Serbia & Montenegro    Forward/Center    International Early Entry    240
6-10    Josh McRoberts    Duke    United States    Forward    Sophomore    240
6-10    Ivan Radenovic    Arizona    Serbia    Forward    Senior    244
6-10    Milovan Rakovic    Mega Ishrana (Serbia)    Sebia    Forward    International Draft Eligible    
6-10    Sean Williams    Boston College    United States    Forward/Center    Junior    235
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: 77ncaachamps on November 16, 2007, 07:24:27 PM
I know MU wanted Shumpert...but do you think that it was known for a long time that Otule was going to be their next signee whether or not Shumpert was going to sign with MU?

Sometimes I wonder how much interest is "smokescreen" or genuine.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: bma725 on November 16, 2007, 10:07:36 PM
Otule or is it O'Tule, had 18 points today in his team's 79-40 win.  No stats available yet on rebounds or blocks.

http://www.chron.com/sports/highschoolsports/results.html?site=default&tpl=Boxscore&Sport=6&ID=6825&TeamID=774&SearchType=Teams

And fwiw, MU alum and daughter of former Packers coach Mike Sherman is apparently working for the Houston Chronicle and writing a blog.

http://www.chron.com/commons/persona.html?plckPersonaPage=PersonaBlog&plckUserId=sherman13&newspaperUserId=sherman13
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 17, 2007, 03:39:25 PM
At 6'10" and against blow out competition, I would expect him to score 25 points/game----he's probably lining up agaimst guys 4-5 inches smaller than he is-----different story in DIv 1-----I remember Chris Grimm scoring 20+ a game against smaller dudes----different game at #5 in Div 1.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Nukem2 on November 17, 2007, 03:52:02 PM
Murff,  y'all know they grow them big down there in Texas!   :D
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: muhoosier260 on November 17, 2007, 06:09:23 PM
a triple double with block? thats eric hicks style. I'll never forget that cincy game in january of 2006, erick hicks got the triple double in points, rebs, and blocks, absolutely owned, what a man-child.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Pakuni on November 17, 2007, 06:22:47 PM
At 6'10" and against blow out competition, I would expect him to score 25 points/game----he's probably lining up agaimst guys 4-5 inches smaller than he is-----different story in DIv 1-----I remember Chris Grimm scoring 20+ a game against smaller dudes----different game at #5 in Div 1.

Don't you think you might want a little more information before making that kind of a statement, i.e. how many shots did he take, how many minutes did he play, how often he was given the ball in the post, etc.?
Think those might have factored into the equation?
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Mayor McCheese on November 17, 2007, 08:02:28 PM
At 6'10" and against blow out competition, I would expect him to score 25 points/game----he's probably lining up agaimst guys 4-5 inches smaller than he is-----different story in DIv 1-----I remember Chris Grimm scoring 20+ a game against smaller dudes----different game at #5 in Div 1.

Texas is completely different, in my eyes in every sport Texas has the best recruits every year, their high school teams, whether big or small, is a lot better then the teams up here, or whatever teams Grimm played
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: hoops12 on November 17, 2007, 09:43:23 PM
How anyone can claim a player should score 25 points per game without ever seeing him, or his competition is absolutely dumb...stupid...and is TRYING to diminish the fact that this young man has a great deal of potential.

I watched Brian Butch play in the FVA his senior year. In each of the six game I saw him play (I actually watched the game, then I drew conclusions) he was going against guys that were 6-9 inches smaller than he. Fond du Lac actually had a 6'2" player guard him, and Neenah used a 6'1" player. Butch averaged 22 points a game and he was rated TOP 10 and a McDonalds All American.

Anyone that makes claims like this is an absolute tool, or should I say OTULE! :D
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: muwarrior87 on November 17, 2007, 10:39:34 PM
nice try, good effort but it's pronounced 'Otulay'
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Doctor V on November 18, 2007, 02:11:27 AM
i believe what murph is trying to say, although not in eloquent fashion, is that although nice a players hs #s dont necessarily mean much. Case in point, look above at butch and grimm. butch was a mcdonalds kid, grimm was prob one of the higher recruited big guys MU has had.

HOWEVER, dont underestimate the fact that this kid doesnt have big shoes to fill at MU. Many athletes would dream to be in a position where they come in with staff, folks, and Lord dreaming for some solid inside play
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Big Papi on November 18, 2007, 08:11:17 AM
i believe what murph is trying to say, although not in eloquent fashion, is that although nice a players hs #s dont necessarily mean much. Case in point, look above at butch and grimm. butch was a mcdonalds kid, grimm was prob one of the higher recruited big guys MU has had.

HOWEVER, dont underestimate the fact that this kid doesnt have big shoes to fill at MU. Many athletes would dream to be in a position where they come in with staff, folks, and Lord dreaming for some solid inside play

It has taken Butch 3 years but it finally looks like Butch has elevated his game.  The fact of the matter is that Murf could have stated that those stats might not tell the whole story but where some called at them with excitement, he felt compelled to basically say the kid sucked because he didnt score 25 points without any real knowledge of what happened in the game.  I personally will reserve my optimism until I hear that he is one of the better bigs in Texas from numerous sources but his stats are much improved from last year which is a good thing.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 18, 2007, 08:13:20 AM
mudi et al------Here he's playing against a team that they blowout by 25-----a triple double doesn't mean much when you have a Goliath lining up against a David without a sling shot. Before we get excited, let's see how he does against the better teams in his area!
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Tulsa Warrior on November 18, 2007, 11:04:54 AM
Oh hell Murf, lets get excited now.  I can deal with the disappointment if it comes.  ;D
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Marquette84 on November 18, 2007, 11:55:21 AM
mudi et al------Here he's playing against a team that they blowout by 25-----a triple double doesn't mean much when you have a Goliath lining up against a David without a sling shot. Before we get excited, let's see how he does against the better teams in his area!

Whenever I see something like this from Murff, I have to question how much he really knows about Otule's opponents.  He's already determined that these aren't the better opponents on the schedule.

My assumption is that he doesn't have a clue as to the quality of either Lamar Consolidated or Stratford.  He's looked at the scores and made the blind assumption that those teams aren't any good--rather than give credit to Bush for being a great team.

Fortunately, the Houson Chronicle does a good job projecting the playoff contenders in each conference in the area.  In other words, somebody has already identtified the "better" teams in the area.

And whad to we find but both of the teams that Otule played so far are picked as playoff teams in their conferences!
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/hso/5293741.html

Stratford is a playoff favorite in District 19-5A
Lamar Consolidated is a playoff favorite in District 24-4A

Bush is a dark horse in District 23-5A

Now, I don't know the difference in overall quality between 23-5A and 19-5A or 24-4A.  But I do know that it provides enough to require a bit more research before concluding that the Bush/Lamar or Bush/Stratford scores are simply due to poor competition. 

It may well be that Bush is a special team with a fast-rising start that beat some pretty good (playoff bound) opponents.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 18, 2007, 02:03:20 PM
SJS/84----I think it's fair to say that a team OTule's team beats by 25 points is not one of the better teams on their schedule!
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: mu03eng on November 18, 2007, 03:37:55 PM
SJS/84----I think it's fair to say that a team OTule's team beats by 25 points is not one of the better teams on their schedule!

Well there is a circular argument if I've ever seen one.  OTule sucks because he didn't get a 25pts/game against a team that sucks because OTule's team beat them by 25.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 18, 2007, 06:10:54 PM
My point is that a 6' 10" guy with BE recruitment credentials and lining up against guys 6'5 or 6'6" (average height of a HS center) should get 25 ppg by default----and at least half of those on putbacks!
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: ilovefreeway on November 18, 2007, 09:04:28 PM
My point is that a 6' 10" guy with BE recruitment credentials and lining up against guys 6'5 or 6'6" (average height of a HS center) should get 25 ppg by default----and at least half of those on putbacks!

Unless the other team is running triple teams at the big guy or otherwise running their defense to combat the big that they don't have.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: mviale on November 18, 2007, 09:14:54 PM
we could use Chris Grimm this year.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Marquette84 on November 18, 2007, 09:57:23 PM
SJS/84----I think it's fair to say that a team OTule's team beats by 25 points is not one of the better teams on their schedule!

I don't think its fair to say that at all.  Did you actually check out the link I provided?  Or were you afraid of seeing the truth?

Apparently, Otule's team beat some pretty good competition.  Why do you have such a hard time giving them credit.


My point is that a 6' 10" guy with BE recruitment credentials and lining up against guys 6'5 or 6'6" (average height of a HS center) should get 25 ppg by default----and at least half of those on putbacks!

Since you know so much about Otule's competition, what are the names of the centers for Lamar and Stratford, and how tall were they exactly?

BTW, Greg Oden averaged 22 points his senior year in HS. 

That means that either Oden was a below-average player in HS, or your "default" number is a joke. 


Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Mayor McCheese on November 18, 2007, 10:29:17 PM
what I dont get, is we have people on this board that complains about never getting big guys, so we get a big guy, who gets a triple double with blocks, who cares about points, we have guys that score, the fact is the defensive presence down low, especially after this year when Burke and Barro leave, is terrible.  So we get this guy who is 6'10, and the people on this board who complain that we don't get bigs, but when we do, they still complain, I love MU hoops, but Greg Oden is not walking into our door.  I am excited for Otule, and the whole class of '08.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: BuzzSucksSucks on November 18, 2007, 10:59:09 PM
I agree with that... By the way McCheese, how do you put your hat on?  Doesn't look like your arms reach all the way up there.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Mayor McCheese on November 18, 2007, 11:22:15 PM
I agree with that... By the way McCheese, how do you put your hat on?  Doesn't look like your arms reach all the way up there.

was born with it on... its also water proof for when I shower...
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 19, 2007, 08:04:02 AM
SJS/84----don't you think that Oden was capable of scoring 25 ppg, or 30 ppg, or 35 ppg in HS?----of course he was------but when you play with another NBA prospect you have to share the ball!

McCheese-----yea it's great to get a big guy----but does he have "BIG" time potential----let's wait and see how he does against the better teams on the schedule -----when a guy gets 10 blocks in a game he's either a superstar or he's playing against guys half his size!

BTW----what division does he play in? The best, worst, or somewhere in between?
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: DAtruth on November 19, 2007, 08:06:54 AM
people had predicted oden as the next "great" big man from the age of 15..i went to a lot of his games and there was never any1 near his size in h.s...he is only 1 of 8 true 7 footers in indiana h.s. b-ball in last 30 years..yet he didnt average double figures in rebounds ..which always amazed me!!! h.s. sr stats=20 pts 9.6 rbs 3.7 blks.... i like o'tules #'s now lets see some vids!!brad miller grew over 6 inches from h.s. graduation til the time he showed up to purdue..he still plays in the league
Title: Thread hijack...speaking of ODEN
Post by: mugrad99 on November 19, 2007, 08:30:35 AM
Portland has apparently told him to cut down on the weightlifting....he's gained 30 pounds of muscle since the NCAA championship game. 
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on November 19, 2007, 08:43:39 AM


----let's wait and see how he does against the better teams on the schedule


This is profound... and I recommend you follow your own advice.

Before you say that Otule should be averaging 25pts + ... please wait until you actually:

A. See him play (not news clips), but a whole game or games
B. Know something about his teammates and competition
C. See how he is being used and defended (do teams triple him, is he the first option on offense, is he playing a high post, etc.)

I don't think ANYBODY has proclaimed him as the next Shaq... but it is mildly exciting to hear of an MU recruit getting a triple-double... and yes, I do know Chris Grimm's stats were great... so I am aware that stats can be misleading... thus the term "mildly exciting"

Sheesh. Can't you let anybody have fun around here?

Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on November 19, 2007, 08:44:42 AM
double post.

sorry.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: TVDirector on November 19, 2007, 09:12:36 AM
agree with the excitement of bringing an agile big in here.
Grimm was stiff.
Amal was pretty fluid.
if Otule approaches what Amal developed into, sweeet for us.

a near 7 footer who can run the floor and block some shots will open up much for MU- whether he scores 7 or 17 pg.

can't wait!... but still will be patient!
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 19, 2007, 09:27:38 AM
You guys were all excited about Grimm too (as I recall he averged 20 ppg)----my analysis projected him as a project and that evaluation was 100% correct!

I'm not saying at this point that O Tule is a project-----need to know the classification of his team-----but as I say----when a guy gets 10 blocks in a single game, he's either a super star or he's playing against exceedingly weak competition !
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: TVDirector on November 19, 2007, 09:45:12 AM
uh, not me.
always saw him as a bit of a stiff better suited for lower d1.

maybe TC saw something different, but it was pretty obvious from the get go.
played decent d with fire at times, but ...

don't know who you think was so excited about Chris.

Title: Re: Otule
Post by: NYWarrior on November 19, 2007, 10:00:45 AM
we could use Chris Grimm this year.

why, not enough moving screens yet?
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Mayor McCheese on November 19, 2007, 10:57:07 AM
You guys were all excited about Grimm too (as I recall he averged 20 ppg)----my analysis projected him as a project and that evaluation was 100% correct!

I'm not saying at this point that O Tule is a project-----need to know the classification of his team-----but as I say----when a guy gets 10 blocks in a single game, he's either a super star or he's playing against exceedingly weak competition !

or when a guy gets 10 blocks in a game, he has a nose on the defensive end for the ball... even if the other team was really small, it is still tough to get 10 blocks.  You would think if a team was that much smaller then him, after about 5 or 6 blocks, the coach would keep the ball on the outside.  Honestly, 10 blocks is quite absurd, no matter what competition
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: jmayer1 on November 19, 2007, 11:18:03 AM
My point is that a 6' 10" guy with BE recruitment credentials and lining up against guys 6'5 or 6'6" (average height of a HS center) should get 25 ppg by default----and at least half of those on putbacks!

You don't have a point.  You have no idea how tall the opponents are or how good the teams are.  Anything you say is only cheap speculation.   
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 19, 2007, 11:19:55 AM
Can anyone tells us which category O'Tule's team falls into within the divisional scheme of Texas HS BB?

McCheese----whe's the last time you heard of a BB player blocking 10 shots in a single game----I have never heard of it and I played against Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlin. Had to be against pint sized players or he's a super star !
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: muarmy81 on November 19, 2007, 11:30:24 AM
His team is a 5A division school and i think that's equivalent to Division 1 in Wisconsin.  5A or maybe there's a 6A either way his team plays in one of the larger divisions, if not the largest, division in TX State basketball. 
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Desert_Eagle on November 19, 2007, 11:38:24 AM
...especially after this year when Burke and Barro leave...

Burke is a junior.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: dwaderoy2004 on November 19, 2007, 11:58:22 AM
Can anyone tells us which category O'Tule's team falls into within the divisional scheme of Texas HS BB?

McCheese----whe's the last time you heard of a BB player blocking 10 shots in a single game----I have never heard of it and I played against Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlin. Had to be against pint sized players or he's a super star !

eric hicks had 10 against us a couple years back.  he's only 6'6.  congrats by the way on playing against bill russell and wilt chamberlain. 
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: MuMark on November 19, 2007, 12:11:53 PM
10 blocks in a game:

2006


MILWAUKEE, Wis.---Eric Hicks had a triple-double and Cincinnati recorded a school record 18 blocks as the Bearcats overcame a 10-point halftime deficit to post a 70-66 win over Marquette on Saturday in BIG EAST basketball action. UC's victory, its second in two tries in its new league, runs the Bearcats' win streak to 10 in a row.

Hicks turned in one of the most dominating interior performances ever by a UC player as he led all players with 22 points, while grabbing 12 rebounds and matching the school record with 10 blocked shots.

Shawn James 2005:

Nov. 25) to help lead Northeastern to Golden Bear Classic finals...with his 10-block effort, James surpassed Husky legend Reggie Lewis for Northeastern's career lead in shots blocked...

Thabeet: 2006

A.J. Price scored 20 points and Hasheem Thabeet tied a Connecticut record with 10 blocked shots as the 20th-ranked Huskies blew out Texas Southern 106-55 on Sunday to win their 26th straight home game.

Just to name a few.

According to Wiki Jimmy Mac AVERAGED over 8 blocks a game as a senior in high school.

Think he might have had more then 10 a few times?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McIlvaine


Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Knights04 on November 19, 2007, 12:25:35 PM

McCheese----whe's the last time you heard of a BB player blocking 10 shots in a single game----I have never heard of it and I played against Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlin. Had to be against pint sized players or he's a super star !

Perhaps that's because the blocked shot was not an official stat until 1973 in the NBA and 1985 in the NCAA...However, I do agree with you somewhat.  We should not just automatically annoint Otule as our "savior" down low.  Let's be cautiously optimistic about this signing.  Be excited that we are bringing in an athletic big man who sounds like he has a chance to be an impact player. But don't heap on overzealous expectations.  Allow him to come in and play before he is labelled as either the greatest center under TC or as an underachiever.  Let his play next year show us where realistic expectations are, and then everyone can complain. ;D

I, for one, am happy to have Otule on board and look forward to watching him play.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Ready2Fly on November 19, 2007, 12:35:02 PM
Dear Murf -

You say that Dwight Burke has "excellent" post moves.

He averaged 9 points per game as a senior in high school.

Otule scored 16 points and 18 points his first 2 games senior year.  Shouldn't that mean he has other-worldly post moves?
(For the record, I don't think this - I'm just following your "logic")

Or are you just a raging hypocrite who spouts off anything to start an argument?

Methinks it's the latter.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Murffieus on November 19, 2007, 01:01:48 PM
Well you can think what you want but you're NOT "ready to fly"---- Burke does have excellent postup moves (had them when he came here)------but hasn't been able to show it here because we don't have a postup offense----posting up here is almost nil. I have also said that Burke is atrocious facing the hoop and that he lacks court savvy (although now improving in both respects).

Burke is Burke and Otule is Otule----there is a lot more to offensive BB than posting up----also please note that Burke didn't start in HS so playing time is a factor in your comparison as well----then there is the competion factor which you also snub!

I'd still like to know what level O'Tule's team is playing on in Texas!
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: Ready2Fly on November 19, 2007, 01:10:33 PM
then there is the competion factor which you also snub!

I'd still like to know what level O'Tule's team is playing on in Texas!

Please refer to muarmy81's post which directly answered this question when you asked earlier.
Title: Re: Otule
Post by: NYWarrior on November 19, 2007, 01:11:55 PM
then there is the competion factor which you also snub!

I'd still like to know what level O'Tule's team is playing on in Texas!

Otule plays in one of the best districts in the state.....phenomenal talent.