Duke freshman Jahlil Okafor also on the team.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11814949/marcus-paige-jahlil-okafor-montrezl-harrell-head-ap-preseason-team (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11814949/marcus-paige-jahlil-okafor-montrezl-harrell-head-ap-preseason-team)
I guess college hoops isn't exactly overflowing with talent this year.
Big Frank made as big a jump from sophomore to junior year as I can remember. Was really surprised, especially since I watched him quite a few times in high school...so I knew his game pretty well. He really got a lot stronger in the post up game, and was always good on the perimeter. That said, he should have gone pro last year as his stock was as high as it will ever get (don't blame him for coming back, but he left a lot of $$ on the table, IMO).
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 03, 2014, 09:34:22 PM
Big Frank made as big a jump from sophomore to junior year as I can remember. Was really surprised, especially since I watched him quite a few times in high school...so I knew his game pretty well. He really got a lot stronger in the post up game, and was always good on the perimeter. That said, he should have gone pro last year as his stock was as high as it will ever get (don't blame him for coming back, but he left a lot of $$ on the table, IMO).
A. Maybe he likes college.
2. Maybe he'll get even better.
C. Maybe he doesn't give a rip what you, I or anybody else thinks.
Quote from: MU82 on November 03, 2014, 10:27:02 PM
A. Maybe he likes college.
2. Maybe he'll get even better.
C. Maybe he doesn't give a rip what you, I or anybody else thinks.
Yes, I was under the direct impression that Big Frank was going to check in with with me on MU Scoop to gauge his draft lottery status. Who knew?
Well deserved honor. Havin' said that, this and a dollar gets you a can of Coke, hey?
Credit where credit is due. He deserves it after the tournament he had.
Hey--this is an MU board. We don't do Kaminskys here.
He gets a ton of media coverage because of the look -- dopey white kid with a long neck. It's a trope that media (print, especially) have glorified over the last two decades. His game is no more, no less than many others we've seen which is a 6'10'' tall with limited inside presence but deadly from outside because he can shoot over any defender after they sag. Defensively, not much there other than height. Certainly not one you'd call a two-way player.
Though, in the end, story means more than substance these days so this train will ride on for weeks.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 03, 2014, 09:34:22 PM
Big Frank made as big a jump from sophomore to junior year as I can remember. Was really surprised, especially since I watched him quite a few times in high school...so I knew his game pretty well. He really got a lot stronger in the post up game, and was always good on the perimeter. That said, he should have gone pro last year as his stock was as high as it will ever get (don't blame him for coming back, but he left a lot of $$ on the table, IMO).
I think a lot of Frank's, and UW's success last year, was due to the new S&C guy they hired away from the Bulls.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 04, 2014, 08:51:28 AM
He gets a ton of media coverage because of the look -- dopey white kid with a long neck. It's a trope that media (print, especially) have glorified over the last two decades. His game is no more, no less than many others we've seen which is a 6'10'' tall with limited inside presence but deadly from outside because he can shoot over any defender after they sag. Defensively, not much there other than height. Certainly not one you'd call a two-way player.
Though, in the end, story means more than substance these days so this train will ride on for weeks.
Lol, jealous no? He had games last year where most of his domination is inside, so he can work it all portions of the court. His offensive game is similar to Jae Crowder, and like Crowder, he's probably average to a tad above average defensively. Actually, not the worst comparison except for them playing different positions.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 04, 2014, 08:51:28 AM
He gets a ton of media coverage because of the look -- dopey white kid with a long neck. It's a trope that media (print, especially) have glorified over the last two decades. His game is no more, no less than many others we've seen which is a 6'10'' tall with limited inside presence but deadly from outside because he can shoot over any defender after they sag. Defensively, not much there other than height. Certainly not one you'd call a two-way player.
Though, in the end, story means more than substance these days so this train will ride on for weeks.
Who you describing - Steve Novak?
Quote from: statnik on November 04, 2014, 08:59:26 AM
Lol, jealous no? He had games last year where most of his domination is inside, so he can work it all portions of the court. His offensive game is similar to Jae Crowder, and like Crowder, he's probably average to a tad above average defensively. Actually, not the worst comparison except for them playing different positions.
To be jealous, one must be in the same vicinity. I am not. I'm simply not enamored of his game moreso than I have been of countless other players over the years. Kaminksy is a fine player, I just don't see a 14 and 6 guy as some sort of All-American dominant presence.
Hell, I'd rather have a kid like Henton from PC on my squad as a "big" who will board and score yet still maintain a legitimate threat from the perimeter.
expectations have been set pretty high in Madison this year, not gonna be easy to match IMO
I doubt Frank will be a post season 1st team AA or that WI makes the Final 4 again
I love that 40% of this AA team weren't big-time recruits.
Kaminsky was a Scout 3-star and the 22nd ranked center. Juan Anderson was a 4-star ranked 90th best player overall. Can you imagine how Scoop would have reacted had we selected a skinny, 3-star traditional when we could have had a 4-star "athlete"?
VanVleet was 99th overall by Scout, 27 spots lower than Steve Taylor.
Yes, I want Top 50 players. I'm thrilled we landed Henry. But HS rankings don't "prove" or "guarantee" anything ... as Juan has clearly demonstrated.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 04, 2014, 09:10:31 AM
To be jealous, one must be in the same vicinity. I am not. I'm simply not enamored of his game moreso than I have been of countless other players over the years. Kaminksy is a fine player, I just don't see a 14 and 6 guy as some sort of All-American dominant presence.
Hell, I'd rather have a kid like Henton from PC on my squad as a "big" who will board and score yet still maintain a legitimate threat from the perimeter.
He's probably a 20 and 6 guy on
most of the other Big 10 teams. UW has a lot of guys scoring double digits.
Quote from: OnWisconsin on November 04, 2014, 03:14:06 PM
He's probably a 20 and 6 guy on most of the other Big 10 teams. UW has a lot of guys scoring double digits.
Not so sure about that. I suspect he is more of a guy who fits what Bo is trying to do on the court. He is a big guy who can stretch the floor and is a decent passer. As a straight up 5, he is not as good. The antithesis of Steimsma. Frank had a lot of trouble in the NCAAs at the BC against the big guy from American University down low.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 04, 2014, 03:32:52 PM
Not so sure about that. I suspect he is more of a guy who fits what Bo is trying to do on the court. He is a big guy who can stretch the floor and is a decent passer. As a straight up 5, he is not as good. The antithesis of Steimsma. Frank had a lot of trouble in the NCAAs at the BC against the big guy from American University down low.
+1
Kaminsky is a helluva player that benefits from playing the perfect system for a player with his skill set. I don't think he would be the best player on a lot of other big 10 teams. That being said, he is still damn good and is going to light it up for Bucky this season....and then be terrible in the NBA
Would we care as much about Kaminsky if he wasn't a white pollock?
Just askin
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 04, 2014, 03:47:46 PM
Would we care as much about Kaminsky if he wasn't a white pollock?
Just askin
He is a Badger "pollock". Thats why. ;)
Kaminsky's melatonin has nothin to do with it. When he hangs 20/10 on MU in 5 weeks, perhaps credit will be given to a 4 year player who has worked hard to make himself better.
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 04, 2014, 03:47:46 PM
Would we care as much about Kaminsky if he wasn't a white pollock?
I'm confused... are we talking about this guy?
(http://www.arthistoryspot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/JacksonPollock2.jpg)
Quote from: The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid on November 04, 2014, 03:39:56 PM
+1
Kaminsky is a helluva player that benefits from playing the perfect system for a player with his skill set. I don't think he would be the best player on a lot of other big 10 teams. That being said, he is still damn good and is going to light it up for Bucky this season....and then be terrible in the NBA
Dekker is the better NBA prospect IMO.
Quote from: tower912 on November 04, 2014, 04:31:02 PM
Kaminsky's melatonin has nothin to do with it. When he hangs 20/10 on MU in 5 weeks, perhaps credit will be given to a 4 year player who has worked hard to make himself better.
He won't hang that many on us if Wojo puts the Elite Gamechanger on him!
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 04, 2014, 08:57:25 AM
I think a lot of Frank's, and UW's success last year, was due to the new S&C guy they hired away from the Bulls.
Agree and Dekker took note this season I hear.
While I totally get while Frank stayed here is why I said he missed the money by not declaring: Only two centers went in Round 1 and Frank was better then #2 arguably. This next draft, there are at least eight centers who could go according to Draft Express and Frank is eighth. Being a hot commodity with the F4 run will be hard to repeat.
That said, there are other things in life so good luck to him. He will be very, very good again.
Quote from: tower912 on November 04, 2014, 04:31:02 PM
Kaminsky's melatonin has nothin to do with it. When he hangs 20/10 on MU in 5 weeks, perhaps credit will be given to a 4 year player who has worked hard to make himself better.
Being defiant is one thing. Being naive is quite another.
And Kaminsky was just ranked in ESPN's top college players as #1 overall
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11819884/2014-college-basketball-player-rankings-10-1
Quote from: WarriorInNYC on November 05, 2014, 09:15:26 AM
And Kaminsky was just ranked in ESPN's top college players as #1 overall
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11819884/2014-college-basketball-player-rankings-10-1
Dekker at 6
If you don't like Frank Kaminsky as a college basketball player, you don't like college basketball. I don't care how he's projected in the draft, he is a well deserved pre season AA.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 05, 2014, 08:39:43 AM
Being defiant is one thing. Being naive is quite another.
All I care about is the name on the front of the jersey. The skin color of the person wearing it is completely irrelevant.
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 04, 2014, 03:47:46 PM
Would we care as much about Kaminsky if he wasn't a white pollock?
Just askin
I'm not even sure what this means.
I don't "care" about Kaminsky the same way I "care" about Marquette players.
He is the best player for one of our main rivals, so he is fair fodder for discussion. That was the case with Alando Tucker, Michael Finley, Ricky Olson and Jordan Taylor, too. I didn't "care" about any of them, white or black, but that doesn't mean they were unworthy to discuss.
Y'all may wanna check out today's SI
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 05, 2014, 11:53:07 AM
Y'all may wanna check out today's SI
You mean the regional cover issue that Dan Patrick, lifelong hooper and devoted fan to the game on all levels, commented on yesterday and said "I don't know who that kid is from Wisconsin but no shock he's another 6'10'' white guy"?
No one disputes Kaminsky is a fine player but there is a gulf between that and being enough of a transcendent presence to be considered an All-American, if not the best collegiate player in the country.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 05, 2014, 01:24:53 PM
No one disputes Kaminsky is a fine player but there is a gulf between that and being enough of a transcendent presence to be considered an All-American, if not the best collegiate player in the country.
Here is the 2012-13 consensus All-American team:
Trey Burke, Doug McDermott, Victor Oladipo, Kelly Olynyk, Otto Porter.
How many of those players were/are "transcendent presences"?
I mean, when I think of "transcendent presences" in college basketball history, I don't think only of Russell, Walton, Bird and Jordan, but also of Olynyk and Oladipo!
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 05, 2014, 08:39:43 AM
Being defiant is one thing. Being naive is quite another.
So you are saying that he's getting these accolades because he is white?
More importantly, who cares?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 06, 2014, 08:21:36 AM
So you are saying that he's getting these accolades because he is white?
No.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 04, 2014, 03:32:52 PM
Not so sure about that. I suspect he is more of a guy who fits what Bo is trying to do on the court. He is a big guy who can stretch the floor and is a decent passer. As a straight up 5, he is not as good. The antithesis of Steimsma. Frank had a lot of trouble in the NCAAs at the BC against the big guy from American University down low.
I disagree. Plain and simple, less weapons = more scoring opportunities. Kaminsky had 23 games where he didn't attempt 10 shots. On pretty much any other Bo Ryan team, that number would probably be close to zero for a player of his caliber. Tucker, Taylor, and Leuer are recent examples of guys that took a lot of shots and did a lot of scoring because of a lack of scorers.
Assuming his efficiency stayed the same, Kaminsky would have scored 19.4 a game last year if he took as many shots as Leuer did as a senior. That's assuming he only makes 101 free throws again. That number will be much higher. Tough to argue.
Kaminsky #1 and Dekker #6 Wow! Anything less than the championship game should be a disappointment for UW. Two lottery picks to boot for the next draft? Somehow I feel this is not the way it plays out. Time will tell.
Quote from: raul on November 06, 2014, 09:26:53 PM
Kaminsky #1 and Dekker #6 Wow! Anything less than the championship game should be a disappointment for UW. Two lottery picks to boot for the next draft? Somehow I feel this is not the way it plays out. Time will tell.
Hey it worked well for Crean in 2013.
Oh wait ...
Quote from: OnWisconsin on November 06, 2014, 12:10:27 PM
I disagree. Plain and simple, less weapons = more scoring opportunities. Kaminsky had 23 games where he didn't attempt 10 shots. On pretty much any other Bo Ryan team, that number would probably be close to zero for a player of his caliber. Tucker, Taylor, and Leuer are recent examples of guys that took a lot of shots and did a lot of scoring because of a lack of scorers.
Assuming his efficiency stayed the same, Kaminsky would have scored 19.4 a game last year if he took as many shots as Leuer did as a senior. That's assuming he only makes 101 free throws again. That number will be much higher. Tough to argue.
Yep, that's a good point. A good illustration of the situation is how surprised I am that he averaged less than 13 points a game last year, as there were games where he took over. However, due to the Badger's balance, he did not have to do that every game or even every other game.