I know we're constantly told not to put stock in the lineups for the scrimmages but has anyone noticed that in both situations the experience was all on one team. (Juan derrick steve and carlino with a sophomore or two) just wondering if anyone else noticed this and is reading too much into it like myself
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 01, 2014, 10:23:39 AM
I know we're constantly told not to put stock in the lineups for the scrimmages but has anyone noticed that in both situations the experience was all on one team. (Juan derrick steve and carlino with a sophomore or two) just wondering if anyone else noticed this and is reading too much into it like myself
I noticed it but don't read much into it. Nominally those are going to be the starters, but I think everyone will play a lot.
Quote from: Texas Western on November 01, 2014, 10:45:16 AM
I noticed it but don't read much into it. Nominally those are going to be the starters, but I think everyone will play a lot.
Agree. Think we can expect heavy minutes from Steve, Deonte and Carlino in most games with everyone else competing for minutes. Can see 6 other guys playing roughly 20 minutes + with the above 3 playing 25-30.
Quote from: Texas Western on November 01, 2014, 10:45:16 AM
I noticed it but don't read much into it. Nominally those are going to be the starters, but I think everyone will play a lot.
For sure until Fischer's eligible with only nine guys and no height.
I fully anticipate the starters will be Derrick, Carlino, Juan, Steve, and either Deonte or JJJ.
Quote from: tower912 on November 02, 2014, 08:38:33 AM
I fully anticipate the starters will be Derrick, Carlino, Juan, Steve, and either Deonte or JJJ.
I anticipate D. Wilson will play 25-30 mpg of forgettable basketball and we will lose 15-20 games....
Quote from: Nevada233 on November 02, 2014, 08:42:39 AM
I anticipate D. Wilson will play 25-30 mpg of forgettable basketball and we will lose 15-20 games....
If he plays that many minutes I agree :'(
Quote from: Nevada233 on November 02, 2014, 08:42:39 AM
I anticipate D. Wilson will play 25-30 mpg of forgettable basketball and we will lose 15-20 games....
We agree on the record. Please specify which D Wilson you mean.
Quote from: tower912 on November 02, 2014, 08:38:33 AM
I fully anticipate the starters will be Derrick, Carlino, Juan, Steve, and either Deonte or JJJ.
That is a scary lineup. When you don't have to guard 40% of the court it makes it's pretty easy to defend. Good thing 6 of their first 10 games are against #250 or higher on KenPom's list...4 of those over 300!
Quote from: esotericmindguy on November 02, 2014, 10:42:55 AM
That is a scary lineup. When you don't have to guard 40% of the court it makes it's pretty easy to defend. Good thing 6 of their first 10 games are against #250 or higher on KenPom's list...4 of those over 300!
I'm betting that we'll get better production from Derrick this year. The young man took 25,000 3s this summer. He doesn't need to be a huge threat, just a threat.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on November 02, 2014, 10:42:55 AM
That is a scary lineup. When you don't have to guard 40% of the court it makes it's pretty easy to defend. Good thing 6 of their first 10 games are against #250 or higher on KenPom's list...4 of those over 300!
Yes, but it is a 40% improvement over last year's starting lineup.
Quote from: jsglow on November 02, 2014, 12:06:07 PM
I'm betting that we'll get better production from Derrick this year. The young man took 25,000 3s this summer. He doesn't need to be a huge threat, just a threat.
It won't take much AT ALL to get better production out of Derrick this year, as it was anemic last season and in all reality, pretty much impossible to produce less. All of the shooting will help some, yet generally 25,000 shots in a summer by the time you are a 22 year old and have been playing basketball all of your life - and shot probably close to 250,000+ shots already in your life - likely won't make much* of a difference. However, if Derrick can get to 30% from 3's and 65% from FT line, he will be a viable player so long as he is also taking and making some perimeter mid range jumpers as well. He HAS to be good enough to need to be defended all over the court. We simply cannot see another year of the 5 foot off sagging defense.
Im expecting Juan to have a surprise year this year. He has a chip on his shoulder, contrary to popular belief, things said on this site does get around to the players.
Quote from: ChitownEllenson on November 03, 2014, 10:07:27 AM
Im expecting Juan to have a surprise year this year. He has a chip on his shoulder, contrary to popular belief, things said on this site does get around to the players.
If that's the case then I can feel proud that I've given Derrick proper motivation. :D
Quote from: NersEllenson on November 03, 2014, 09:42:05 AM
Yes, but it is a 40% improvement over last year's starting lineup.
It won't take much AT ALL to get better production out of Derrick this year, as it was anemic last season and in all reality, pretty much impossible to produce less. All of the shooting will help some, yet generally 25,000 shots in a summer by the time you are a 22 year old and have been playing basketball all of your life - and shot probably close to 250,000+ shots already in your life - likely won't make much* of a difference. However, if Derrick can get to 30% from 3's and 65% from FT line, he will be a viable player so long as he is also taking and making some perimeter mid range jumpers as well. He HAS to be good enough to need to be defended all over the court. We simply cannot see another year of the 5 foot off sagging defense.
I don't think Cadougan ever hit that mark and he was fine as a PG. Honestly, I think if he can get to the 15-20% range, it will stop the sagging we saw from defenders last season.
Quote from: The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid on November 03, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
I don't think Cadougan ever hit that mark and he was fine as a PG. Honestly, I think if he can get to the 15-20% range, it will stop the sagging we saw from defenders last season.
Believe Junior got to 29% from 3 - which isn't asking a whole lot out of a D-1 PG. Junior also showed a very effective mid-range game as a senior, hitting a lot of elbow jumpers off of pick and roll action. I said many times last year, I'd have rather Derrick launched 3's/mid-range even if he only hit 10-20% of them..as teams would at least be more likely to guard him. Additionally, I didn't and don't believe Derrick as bad of shooter as his 7% 3 point percentage would indicate, yet by the last half of the season, he wouldn't even shoot any unless end of shot clock situations. Furthermore, it f's with your head when you see a defender disrespecting you by not guarding you within 5 feet - and in many cases it is harder to actually shoot a wide open, uncontested 3, than one coming in rhythm/flow of a game
Quote from: jsglow on November 02, 2014, 12:06:07 PM
I'm betting that we'll get better production from Derrick this year. The young man took 25,000 3s this summer.
Yeah, but going 0-for-25,000 had to mess with his confidence a little!
Quote from: NersEllenson on November 03, 2014, 10:25:59 AM
Believe Junior got to 29% from 3 - which isn't asking a whole lot out of a D-1 PG. Junior also showed a very effective mid-range game as a senior, hitting a lot of elbow jumpers off of pick and roll action. I said many times last year, I'd have rather Derrick launched 3's/mid-range even if he only hit 10-20% of them..as teams would at least be more likely to guard him. Additionally, I didn't and don't believe Derrick as bad of shooter as his 7% 3 point percentage would indicate, yet by the last half of the season, he wouldn't even shoot any unless end of shot clock situations. Furthermore, it f's with your head when you see a defender disrespecting you by not guarding you within 5 feet - and in many cases it is harder to actually shoot a wide open, uncontested 3, than one coming in rhythm/flow of a game
Agree with all of this. I was hoping that Derrick would be able to return to his role as a high energy backup this season but it sounds like that won't be the case. Hopefully Wojo has drilled some confidence into the older D Wilson
Quote from: ChitownEllenson on November 03, 2014, 10:07:27 AM
Im expecting Juan to have a surprise year this year. He has a chip on his shoulder, contrary to popular belief, things said on this site does get around to the players.
He has a chip on his shoulder this year because Davante isn't around to eat it.
Quote from: tower912 on November 03, 2014, 12:41:54 PM
He has a chip on his shoulder this year because Davante isn't around to eat it.
Were that the case, last year's team shouldn't have lost from Feb. 1 on and Buzz should have done his best coaching job ever.
Quote from: The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid on November 03, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
I don't think Cadougan ever hit that mark and he was fine as a PG. Honestly, I think if he can get to the 15-20% range, it will stop the sagging we saw from defenders last season.
It's not about how many he hits, it's about his willingness to shoot it.
Quote from: tower912 on November 03, 2014, 12:41:54 PM
He has a chip on his shoulder this year because Davante isn't around to eat it.
Now that, Sir..is funny. Was it chocolate chip, fish and chips, beef or potato ?
Quote from: The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid on November 03, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
I don't think Cadougan ever hit that mark and he was fine as a PG. Honestly, I think if he can get to the 15-20% range, it will stop the sagging we saw from defenders last season.
Cadougan was fine as a PG because he could make an occasional outside shot, could push the ball, could drive to the hoop, make some FT's and make threading passes--none of which Derrick has shown he can do in game time.
Quote from: The Adventures of HE-Man and the Kangaroo Kid on November 03, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
I don't think Cadougan ever hit that mark and he was fine as a PG. Honestly, I think if he can get to the 15-20% range, it will stop the sagging we saw from defenders last season.
Cadougan was excellent at penetrating and finishing on drives to the basket not to mention he had great court vision and was a great passer. The problem with Derrick is/was not just that he was a poor shooter but that he also per my recollection was a terrible finisher and below average for high D1 point guard at penetrating/driving. Though he is strong with the ball he never seemed to have much court vision and so is/was not a threat as an assist maker. I love the guy's spirit and his defense is above average but for the life of me its hard to believe he should be on the court for 25-30 minutes which by all accounts is the plan. Very bummed that reports seem to indicate Dawson is going to play the 2 and even the 3. The coaches (and Buzz before them) see these guys obviously much more than anyone so they are almost certainly right if there judgment is thats the way to play our personnel but as a fan I am disappointed Dawson or Duane don't seem to be competitive at the 1 spot. Dawson showed flashes of being a creative passer and Duane on paper is a multi tooled player. How can they not put the team in a better spot to win than with Derrick at the 1? I will be thrilled and so happy for him if he excels this year but I guess I hope he starts playing 20 - 25 minutes and then gradually cedes time to a player with more tools (passer, penetrator, shooter, finisher). The point is so important. Oh well gotta trust the new staff and see how the team improves.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on November 03, 2014, 04:47:03 PM
It's not about how many he hits, it's about his willingness to shoot it.
What?
Quote from: milwaukee ex-pat on November 03, 2014, 05:30:28 PM
Cadougan was excellent at penetrating and finishing on drives to the basket not to mention he had great court vision and was a great passer. The problem with Derrick is/was not just that he was a poor shooter but that he also per my recollection was a terrible finisher and below average for high D1 point guard at penetrating/driving. Though he is strong with the ball he never seemed to have much court vision and so is/was not a threat as an assist maker. I love the guy's spirit and his defense is above average but for the life of me its hard to believe he should be on the court for 25-30 minutes which by all accounts is the plan. Very bummed that reports seem to indicate Dawson is going to play the 2 and even the 3. The coaches (and Buzz before them) see these guys obviously much more than anyone so they are almost certainly right if there judgment is thats the way to play our personnel but as a fan I am disappointed Dawson or Duane don't seem to be competitive at the 1 spot. Dawson showed flashes of being a creative passer and Duane on paper is a multi tooled player. How can they not put the team in a better spot to win than with Derrick at the 1? I will be thrilled and so happy for him if he excels this year but I guess I hope he starts playing 20 - 25 minutes and then gradually cedes time to a player with more tools (passer, penetrator, shooter, finisher). The point is so important. Oh well gotta trust the new staff and see how the team improves.
Why do people keep assuming that he will be playing 25-30 minutes a game? Even if he is named a starter, which I haven't heard confirmed, he still hopefully will not be playing that many minutes. Anything more than 10 minutes is too much for a player with his skill set.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on November 03, 2014, 06:10:27 PM
Why do people keep assuming that he will be playing 25-30 minutes a game? Even if he is named a starter, which I haven't heard confirmed, he still hopefully will not be playing that many minutes. Anything more than 10 minutes is too much for a player with his skill set.
I want him to return to his role as a backup but I think 13-18 minutes per game is a better range than less than 10. Derrick is a high energy, defense first, no mistake, backup PG. He is great at that role. I think allowing him to play to his strengths and being strategic with who is lined up with, will allow him to be an effective contributor. Reports seem to be indicating that he will start, but as you point out, who knows how many minutes that actually means. But I would bet a hefty sum of money that it will be more than 10. He got 13.1 mpg on the elite 8 team and this season's team by all indications will be much worse than that squad.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 03, 2014, 05:14:48 PM
Cadougan was fine as a PG because he could make an occasional outside shot, could push the ball, could drive to the hoop, make some FT's and make threading passes--none of which Derrick has shown he can do in game time.
I applaud you, sir.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 03, 2014, 05:37:30 PM
What?
If Derrick is willing to shoot, then defenses have to take that into account. He's shown virtually zero interest in shooting behind the arc.
He's probably not going to turn into Pete Maravich in one offseason, but if he's willing to shoot more because he thinks he can make them, then he'll create a more dynamic offense around him. That's what worked for Junior, even though he was never going to be mistaken for a good shooter.