MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PaintTouches on July 17, 2014, 11:41:42 AM
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I've been meaning to do a piece on how the first two recruiting classes impact success for MU coaches, but have run into some issues gathering data as basketball reference is useless past 2000 and the MU Wiki has a few holes as I want to include transfers.
Here is what I have so far in terms of coaches and their initial recruiting class plus the full first recruiting class. (* denotes a transfer, ** denotes JUCO)
Wojo
2014- Cohen, Carlino*, Wally Ellenson*, Levin*
2015- Noskowiak, Heldt
Buzz
2008- Otule, Butler**, Fulce**
2009-Cadougan, DJO**, Buycks**, Maymon, Mbao, Erik Williams
Crean
1999-Krunti Hester (Sort of)
2000-Wade, Sanders, Merrit, Blankson
Deane
1994- Hutchins, Abel Joseph, Zack McCall, Richard Shaw
1995- Mike Bargen, Jarrod Lovette
O'Neill
1989-Ron Curry*, Jay Zulauf*, Keith Stewart*, Jeff Zavada
1990-Robb Logteman, Damon Key, McIlvaine, Chuck Brakes
Dukiet
1986-Tony Smith, Roman Muller, John Ellenson, Rod Grosse
1987- Trevor Powell, Mark Anglavar, Charles Luter, Candelino, John Leurck, Joe Nethan, Gerald Posey
Majerus
1983-Tom Copa, Mike Davis, Richard McCormick, Herb Harrison, Tony Reeder, Walter Downing*
1984-Michael Davis**, Benny Moore**, Michael Sims, Tony Reeder, Pat Foley, Robert Hall**
Raymonds
1977-Tony Davis, Larry Hatchett, Oliver Lee,
1978-Greg Shimon, Dean Marquardt
Let me know who I'm missing/what I screwed up. Also my basketball knowledge of MU is limited, so I would appreciate any and all thoughts/insights/observations from Crean on when it comes to this stuff.
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Wasn't Krunti Hester in Crean's first class in '99?
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Do you want to count the incoming freshmen for 2014 like Sandy? If you count Otule for buzz in 2008 seems like you should.
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Wasn't Krunti Hester in Crean's first class in '99?
Wasn't he a leftover from Deane who was promptly Creaned?
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Anglavar - missing the "n".
Brian Barone was a transfer in 1999. I believe from TA&M. May have sat the prior season though...
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marquette/players?season=2000-2001
Might be nice to add to the wiki.
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Wasn't Krunti Hester in Crean's first class in '99?
Hester was a Deane recruit
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Do you want to count the incoming freshmen for 2014 like Sandy? If you count Otule for buzz in 2008 seems like you should.
Definitely, that's a huge part and why I have them both in there.
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Krunti listed in the media guide as playing in 2000. I remember he was a Deane recruit who got Creaned after one season.
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Krunti listed in the media guide as playing in 2000. I remember he was a Deane recruit who got Creaned after one season.
"Playing" is overstating it a bit.
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I'm pretty sure Hutchins was an O'Neal recruit that Deane was damn lucky to inherit.
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I'm pretty sure Hutchins was an O'Neal recruit that Deane was damn lucky to inherit.
correct. he was a KO parting gift
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Chuck Brakes from DeLaSalle in Chicago was part of KO's first recruiting class at MU .... eventually transferred to UIC
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Calling us "old-timers" in order to solicit our help is not the Scoop way.
You need to thinly veil your insults by calling us something like "traditionally aged."
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McCaskill came with Gates in O'neills 2nd class, I think.
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I also think we are missing a coach in that time period.
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I believe Oliver Lee was an Al recruit.
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Erik Williams for Buzz's second class
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I believe Oliver Lee was an Al recruit.
Actually he was Hank's. OLee could have been a super star.
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Robert Hall was a JUCO PG who played for Majerus in '84 and '85.
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7 recruits for Dukiet in '87? Wow.
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I believe Oliver Lee was an Al recruit.
Raymonds, for certain. Came from DeLand sans credit card, but not for long.
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I believe Majerus' first class for the 1983-84 season was;
* Tom Copa, a center from Coon Valley Minnesota
* Robert Hall, the Juco point guard from Cleveland that had played at Central Arizona.
* Richard McCormick a point from Syracuse, NY
* Herb Harrison a forward from Wickcliffe Ohio.
* Tony Reeder, a forward from Westchester, Illinois that was academically ineligible until the following season.
* Walter Downing transfered in from DePaul and also began playing the following season.
But Joe Wolf was the big one that got away.
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I believe Majerus' first class for the 1983-84 season was;
* Tom Copa, a center from Coon Valley Minnesota
* Robert Hall, the Juco point guard from Cleveland that had played at Central Arizona.
* Richard McCormick a point from Syracuse, NY
* Herb Harrison a forward from Wickcliffe Ohio.
* Tony Reeder, a forward from Westchester, Illinois that was academically ineligible until the following season.
* Walter Downing transfered in from DePaul and also began playing the following season.
But Joe Wolf was the big one that got away.
If I remember correctly, replace Robert Hall with Mike Davis. Hall was the next year.
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Thanks all! No offense was meant with the old-timers barb, though I did find it amusing that Oldwarrior81 came up clutch with Majerus' 1983 class.
I have made the updates suggested, putting in Krunti Hester, Erik Williams (d'oh), Chuck Brakes, Amal McCaskill, the 83 class and Robert Hall. This has been a tremendous help.
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I believe Majerus' first class for the 1983-84 season was;
* Tom Copa, a center from Coon Valley Rapids, Minnesota
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Robert Hall was a JUCO PG who played for Majerus in '84 and '85.
I bought a suit from him once
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Raymonds, for certain. Came from DeLand sans credit card, but not for long.
Well, he needed something to cut the white stuff with
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I'm pretty sure Hutchins was an O'Neal recruit that Deane was damn lucky to inherit.
All those guys listed were Kevin O'Neill recruits: Hutch, Zack, Abel and Richard. O'Neill told all of them to honor their commitment to MU even though he was leaving. Can't recall if Faisal Abraham was in that class as well or the previous one..
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I can contribute almost nothing except to say that Larry Hatchett was a super nice guy and why he took a personal liking to me when I was an underclassmen is a mystery. We lost track after he graduated. Hope his life turned out fantastic.
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I can contribute almost nothing except to say that Larry Hatchett was a super nice guy and why he took a personal liking to me when I was an underclassmen is a mystery. We lost track after he graduated. Hope his life turned out fantastic.
Belieive it or not, he's a urologist. With the name Dr. Hatchett.
http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Robert_Hatchett.html (http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Robert_Hatchett.html)
UPDATE: Since the name might confuse some (Robert Lawrence Hatchett) here's another link with his bio identifying MU:
http://www.aplusfoundation.org/hallofhonor/recipients-07-08.asp (http://www.aplusfoundation.org/hallofhonor/recipients-07-08.asp)
DR. R. LAWRENCE HATCHETT - CLASS OF 1977
Dr. R. Lawrence Hatchett, MD is a national leader in the field of urinary medicine. After a noteworthy career at Marquette University, where he was a student-body leader and four-year letterman on the varsity basketball team, Dr. Hatchett attended the University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine and later completed a fellowship through the Harvard University School of Medicine. He went into private practice in 1991 and became director of The Bladder Control Center of Tallahassee.
In 1996, Dr. Hatchett founded Incontinence Center Consultants, Inc., a national consulting firm designed to educate hospitals and physicians in the development of an incontinence niche through surgical training, market evaluation and practice marketing. Dr. Hatchett’s main interests lie in men’s health, benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH), erectile dysfunction, and kidney stone treatment and prevention. As a leader in his field and has toured as a national speaker for a variety of health-related topics and consults on minimally invasive techniques to treat BPH. He founded Southern Illinois Urology in May of 2003 in Herrin, Ill.
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Kevin O'Neal's first class consisted of Ron Curry, who had to sit out a year. O'Neal refused to sign any other recruits, so he can focus on the nexrt year. I believe that was the year of Key, McIllvanie and Logterman. His third year he brought in Tony Miller.
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O Lee should have been a superstar. He had real gifts and real issues.
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I bought a suit from him once
Where the values go up, up, up and the prices go down, down, down
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Kevin O'Neal's first class consisted of Ron Curry, who had to sit out a year. O'Neal refused to sign any other recruits, so he can focus on the nexrt year. I believe that was the year of Key, McIllvanie and Logterman. His third year he brought in Tony Miller.
Keith Stewart and Jay Zulauf would have had to transfer at the same time as Curry to be eligible for O'Neill's second season.
Jeff Zavada was listed as the sole frosh in O'Neill's first year. Consistent with every other coach listed, the incoming coach is credited with the holdover.
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/1989
Thus, O'Neill's line should read:
First year: Jeff Zavada, Keith Stewart*, Ron Curry*, Jay Zulauf*
Second Year; Key, McIlvaine, Logtermann, Brakes
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If I remember correctly, replace Robert Hall with Mike Davis. Hall was the next year.
Hall was here for 83-84 and 84-85. Kevin Johnson was the primary point in 85-86.
Davis came in for 84-85 (from the same hometown and juco as Aaron Rodgers, Butte College in Chico, CA) and then left the team during the 85-86 season.
If you ever heard him speak you'll recall almost every sentence began and ended with the word "Dude"
Many may have forgotten that Herb Harrison was the brother of Jayne Kennedy from the NFL pregame on CBS.
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7 recruits for Dukiet in '87? Wow.
Most of whom couldn't hold their own on the main court at the rec center. I have many fond memories of teaming up with Johnny Miller and a few of his friends to thrash those guys when they showed up.
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Hall was here for 83-84 and 84-85. Kevin Johnson was the primary point in 85-86.
Davis came in for 84-85 (from the same hometown and juco as Aaron Rodgers, Butte College in Chico, CA) and then left the team during the 85-86 season.
If you ever heard him speak you'll recall almost every sentence began and ended with the word "Dude"
Many may have forgotten that Herb Harrison was the brother of Jayne Kennedy from the NFL pregame on CBS.
You're correct on Robert Hall, I had my years mixed up. I remember the joke Majerus told that he was the only coach who outweighed his starting backcourt (Hall and Mandy Johnson).
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JUST TRYING TO CONFIRM, as someone else said above, '94 is all WRONG - ALL O'NEIL RECRUITS.
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I believe 86 is wrong... think Roman Mueller and Rod Grosse were Majerus mistakes (interesting guy, part of 77 Champ story, but much overrated in MU lore - RIP)
What happened to 85 - no recruits?.
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Belieive it or not, he's a urologist. With the name Dr. Hatchett.
http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Robert_Hatchett.html (http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Robert_Hatchett.html)
UPDATE: Since the name might confuse some (Robert Lawrence Hatchett) here's another link with his bio identifying MU:
http://www.aplusfoundation.org/hallofhonor/recipients-07-08.asp (http://www.aplusfoundation.org/hallofhonor/recipients-07-08.asp)
DR. R. LAWRENCE HATCHETT - CLASS OF 1977
Dr. R. Lawrence Hatchett, MD is a national leader in the field of urinary medicine. After a noteworthy career at Marquette University, where he was a student-body leader and four-year letterman on the varsity basketball team, Dr. Hatchett attended the University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine and later completed a fellowship through the Harvard University School of Medicine. He went into private practice in 1991 and became director of The Bladder Control Center of Tallahassee.
In 1996, Dr. Hatchett founded Incontinence Center Consultants, Inc., a national consulting firm designed to educate hospitals and physicians in the development of an incontinence niche through surgical training, market evaluation and practice marketing. Dr. Hatchett’s main interests lie in men’s health, benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH), erectile dysfunction, and kidney stone treatment and prevention. As a leader in his field and has toured as a national speaker for a variety of health-related topics and consults on minimally invasive techniques to treat BPH. He founded Southern Illinois Urology in May of 2003 in Herrin, Ill.
I was walking down Wisconsin Ave. Larry Hatchett was on my side of the street, Sam Worthen and Artie Green were walking down the other side. Hatchett yells to Green something like, "Aren't you going to class?" And Artie responds: "Man, I ain't into that e-du-ca-shun $hit." Then he and Worthen starting cracking up like they just heard the funniest joke in the history of the world.
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I believe Majerus' first class for the 1983-84 season was;
* Tom Copa, a center from Coon Valley Minnesota
* Robert Hall, the Juco point guard from Cleveland that had played at Central Arizona.
* Richard McCormick a point from Syracuse, NY
* Herb Harrison a forward from Wickcliffe Ohio.
* Tony Reeder, a forward from Westchester, Illinois that was academically ineligible until the following season.
* Walter Downing transfered in from DePaul and also began playing the following season.
But Joe Wolf was the big one that got away.
Reeder was also academically ineligible for half of his senior year if I recall. The double
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Where the values go up, up, up and the prices go down, down, down
performed by Les Paul and Mary Ford.
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I'm not an old-timer.
I am a seasoned fan.
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I was walking down Wisconsin Ave. Larry Hatchett was on my side of the street, Sam Worthen and Artie Green were walking down the other side. Hatchett yells to Green something like, "Aren't you going to class?" And Artie responds: "Man, I ain't into that e-du-ca-shun $hit." Then he and Worthen starting cracking up like they just heard the funniest joke in the history of the world.
Worthen should be part of Hank's second recruiting class in the original post.
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Worthen should be part of Hank's second recruiting class in the original post.
As were Michael Wilson and Artie Green.
One could list Odell Ball, like they classified Otule, as a Hank recruit, although he sat out the championship year on a transfer under Al but he only played for Hank.
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Worthen should be part of Hank's second recruiting class in the original post.
My freshman year (1978-79), Dean Marquardt, Sam Worthen, Michael Wilson and Artie Green debuted. All part of Hank's second recruiting class.
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I'm assumin' Larry graduated from med school. Anyone know from where and his specialty?
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As were Michael Wilson and Artie Green.
One could list Odell Ball, like they classified Otule, as a Hank recruit, although he sat out the championship year on a transfer under Al but he only played for Hank.
I can remember going up against Odell Ball in the rec center. Yikes.
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My freshman year (1978-79), Dean Marquardt, Sam Worthen, Michael Wilson and Artie Green debuted. All part of Hank's second recruiting class.
Out of that group, I believe only Marquardt made any significant money playing pro ball.....seems to have had a fairly lucrative career in Europe.
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Worthen spent a few seasons in the NBA followed by 7-8 years in the old CBA.
He's done quite a bit of coaching ranging from small time pro teams to a stint as an assistant at Iona. Last I heard he was coaching the Washington Generals against the Harlem Globetrotters since about 2008.
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Speaking of Sam Worthen.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksLJwYuYdQk
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Worthen spent a few seasons in the NBA followed by 7-8 years in the old CBA.
He's done quite a bit of coaching ranging from small time pro teams to a stint as an assistant at Iona. Last I heard he was coaching the Washington Generals against the Harlem Globetrotters since about 2008.
Michael Wilson was a very good college player, just not quite good enough for the NBA. Sounds like the familiar theme for Warriors of recent vintage.
Sam was great fun to watch ... although I can still see that long pass that just went off Toone's fingertips in the NCAAs against DePaul. If Sam & Toone connect, Toone has a dunk, Marquette has a 10-point lead and Hank maybe starts thinking about slowing things down.
And maybe it's Sam instead of Aguirre in the Final Four vs. Larry Bird.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda!
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Speaking of Sam Worthen.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksLJwYuYdQk
Was at that game lots of fun. Seems part 2 was not uploaded :(
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Michael Wilson was a very good college player, just not quite good enough for the NBA. Sounds like the familiar theme for Warriors of recent vintage.
Sam was great fun to watch ... although I can still see that long pass that just went off Toone's fingertips in the NCAAs against DePaul. If Sam & Toone connect, Toone has a dunk, Marquette has a 10-point lead and Hank maybe starts thinking about slowing things down.
And maybe it's Sam instead of Aguirre in the Final Four vs. Larry Bird.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda!
I remember Wilson breaking a backboard on a dunk in a game at Memphis (his hometown).
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I remember Wilson breaking a backboard on a dunk in a game at Memphis (his hometown).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcuEIuTagg0
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Do you want to count the incoming freshmen for 2014 like Sandy? If you count Otule for buzz in 2008 seems like you should.
Otule was actually recruited almost exclusively by buzz, Sandy Cohen was just talked into staying by wojo.
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All those guys listed were Kevin O'Neill recruits: Hutch, Zack, Abel and Richard. O'Neill told all of them to honor their commitment to MU even though he was leaving. Can't recall if Faisal Abraham was in that class as well or the previous one..
Faisal was an O'Neill recruit. Same class as Pieper and Crawford that graduated in '97. Solid class.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcuEIuTagg0
We were untucked too!
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Faisal was an O'Neill recruit. Same class as Pieper and Crawford that graduated in '97. Solid class.
That was a strong class. They were true warriors, in the sense of our long forgotten name and how they played. If we had kept KO bigger things would have happened
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That was a strong class. They were true warriors, in the sense of our long forgotten name and how they played. If we had kept KO bigger things would have happened
You're right, Class of '97 was literally the last Warriors, the name change being in the second semester of their freshman year.
Freshmen: Sweet 16
Sophomore: NIT Runners Up
Juniors: NCAA tourney
Seniors: CUSA Tourney Champs and NCAA tourney
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I bought a suit from him once
I long ago bought my Cuban heels at Johnny Walker's. Not to be confused with Johnny Walkers hooch.