MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: keefe on June 26, 2014, 03:36:45 PM
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Well, I guess this man's views were not scrubbed thoroughly enough for an offer of employment to have been extended. Mike Lovell is not in step with the Marquette Faithful. Is mistake now spelled L-o-v-e-l-l?
What did the BoT know and when did they know it? We demand answers!
Marquette will not re-adopt the Warriors nickname.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/wild-lovell-look-ahead-to-historic-transition-at-marquette-university-b99297303z1-264555721.html
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Jesuits may allow a lay Prez, but will never let that name return.... ;)
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Jesuits may allow a lay Prez, but will never let that name return.... ;)
Well, I agree that Pilarz will never again return to Marquette. But what about fixing the Warriors mistake?
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Well, I agree that Pilarz will never again return to Marquette. But what about fixing the Warriors mistake?
Saying no to the Warrior name, unfortunately, was a condition of employment. ;)
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Redskins
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Well, I agree that Pilarz will never again return to Marquette. But what about fixing the Warriors mistake?
Unfortunately, that ship sailed long ago. There is zero chance that topic will ever resurface at MU.
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Not on the radar. No way, no how, no amount of money. I loved the nickname, I mourned the loss of the nickname, I protested the loss of the nickname, I sent letters.......its over. It is some girl I knew 25 years ago. A fond memory, but it means nothing to me now.
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You have to let this warrior thing go ... you're all a bunch of old men with gas problems.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-okpX-85AErU/TbDZKGqQxPI/AAAAAAAAAdI/q4eiQL1Lc2M/s1600/grumpy-old-men.jpg)
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Stop being racial Heisenberg
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Redskins
2015 Meme Tournament Watchlist
Redskins
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2015 Meme Tournament Watchlist
Redskins
I love Scoop. God help me I love it so!
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/86e699fea32791268a20fb1e2bca10a6/tumblr_mm5033rz5k1qghl49o1_r2_500.gif)
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I want the Warriors back as much as anyone on this board does.
It aint happening! That ship sailed!
Even if Marquette hired Jesus himself, the Jesuits would have him promise not to do a Lazarus act on the Warriors nickname.
Look, if the Jesuits turned down a million dollars to change the name back, it is done, finished and kaput. Put a fork in it and leave this debate.
I think I would rather debate the Hillbilly then have YET ANOTHER board on bringing the Warriors name back. Could we ban this subject forever???????
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2015 Meme Tournament Watchlist
Redskins
We should merge the topics
(https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/50834907/disp/a405937721fc9882443e4acccfb7897f.jpg)
(https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/69953077/disp/135ca9c2d99025c502e076c83c0cf17e.jpg)
(http://www.6magazineonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RGC_Sports_WashingtonWARRIORS_Proposed_LOGO.jpg)
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I think it could come back. But by the time it is possible, all the alumni who graduated as Warriors will be dead. And if we try to change it then, all the Golden Eagle alumni will protest it.
I say we go back to Hilltoppers, throw em a curveball
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I think it could come back. But by the time it is possible, all the alumni who graduated as Warriors will be dead. And if we try to change it then, all the Golden Eagle alumni will protest it.
I say we go back to Hilltoppers, throw em a curveball
What about Golden Avalanche?
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I want the Warriors back as much as anyone on this board does.
I think I would rather debate the Hillbilly then have YET ANOTHER board on bringing the Warriors name back. Could we ban this subject forever???????
BLASPHEMY
(http://id-cube.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/warriors-logo-mcrae-deviantart-96022.jpg)
(http://www.hendrix.edu/uploadedImages/Events_and_News/WARRIOR%20web%20page.jpg)
(http://www.digindigin.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/WARRIORS_LOGO3.png)
(http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/82/2484/full/4fq08jf7yneojbjom2at.gif)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/Auckland_Warriors_logo_1995.jpg)
(http://www.99sportslogos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Glasgow-Warriors-Logo.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WA1UoPheE1o/TVUnOVWprxI/AAAAAAAAATw/purvfoHYXJQ/s1600/ACS_Warriors_4c_glow.png) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/78/2404/full/jjhl41ay18nd8amhtqut.gif)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Dj-jtF1TLsc/Sd_vK0YWVHI/AAAAAAAAAAM/gPU3HNBjxnY/S220/waupun+warriors+logo.gif) (http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140421180148/thewarriors/images/9/9e/The_warriors_back_logo_2_by_mjhumberto-d4lbpu8.png)
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIalVgEVT7YwG0Bgz_AqR5aX4f6HHfgw4NxshxlTYMtqmv61ar6w)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/SW_Warriors_Logo.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Indonesia_Warriors_logo.png)
(http://www.digindigin.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/WARRIORS_LOGO13.gif)
(http://www.benzieschools.net/uploads/images/Warriors%20Logo%202.jpg)
(http://geocdn.cricket.com.pk/cdn/teams/slpl/Kanduratawarriors.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OSXEh959zmc/UE-HJeDTruI/AAAAAAAAAAQ/n8QIObiVuzk/s1600/Cricket-120702_Warriors%2Blogo-1341731582.jpg)
(http://www.wascodiamonds.com/Images/College%20Logos/winona-state-warriors-logo.png)
(http://whitemudwest.com/news_images/org_171/Image/warriors_logo.jpg)
(http://fs1.rampinteractive.com/sprucegrovemha/images/teams/12347/WARRIORS.jpg)
(http://megasportsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Eastmoor-Academy-Warriors-logo-courtesy-Eastmoor-Academy.png) (http://www.aroundfortwayne.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2013/05/FW_Warriors_logo.jpg)
(http://www.pvsd.ca/school/jameshamblin/About/HandBook/PublishingImages/Warriors%20logo.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/Bucharest_Warriors_logo.png)
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/285/3/5/gadjah_mada_warriors_flag_football_team_by_ditozero21-d6q736p.jpg)
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If Warriors is good enough for Bucharest, it's good enough for MU.
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That's a significant amount of "Warrior teams".
I didn't realize there were so many insensitive people in the world.
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If Warriors is good enough for Bucharest, it's good enough for MU.
When in Romania do as the Romanians do!
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a625/Matthew_Jamison/romanianModel_zps221995a8.png)
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Marquette Warriors, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, North Carolina Tar Heels, Indiana Hoosiers and a few others - we were in the team picture for the most recognizable and iconic of nicknames. Now we're on a short list for the most boring, white bread ones. Many mascots available - we could even keep the damn eagle in some form as an olive branch - if people only wanted to be reasonable. Sad.
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Marquette Warriors, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, North Carolina Tar Heels, Indiana Hoosiers and a few others - we were in the team picture for the most recognizable and iconic of nicknames. Now we're on a short list for the most boring, white bread ones. Many mascots available - we could even keep the damn eagle in some form as an olive branch - if people only wanted to be reasonable. Sad.
I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.
Now I think that will last for a season at most. Than most people would forget about it. Still, I don't think the administration will ever consider going back.
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Marquette Warriors, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, North Carolina Tar Heels, Indiana Hoosiers and a few others - we were in the team picture for the most recognizable and iconic of nicknames. Now we're on a short list for the most boring, white bread ones. Many mascots available - we could even keep the damn eagle in some form as an olive branch - if people only wanted to be reasonable. Sad.
+8 I love you man
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I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.
Now I think that will last for a season at most. Than most people would forget about it. Still, I don't think the administration will ever consider going back.
This is why every logo I put up was not Native American in nature. That being said, there were many that had Native American imagery that was incredibly benign (a feather, for example) that I could have added.
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Marquette Warriors, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, North Carolina Tar Heels, Indiana Hoosiers and a few others - we were in the team picture for the most recognizable and iconic of nicknames. Now we're on a short list for the most boring, white bread ones. Many mascots available - we could even keep the damn eagle in some form as an olive branch - if people only wanted to be reasonable. Sad.
I couldn't agree more with this statement. Marquette and Warriors were synonymous and together stood for excellence. There is a reason why decades later broadcasters and athletes continue to refer to us by that name.
If the administration had courage they would say that there was unflattering imagery associated with the name in a different time and era and that Marquette has repositioned the Warrior as a ubiquitous symbol of nobility, gallantry, and integrity for a new century. Press on. Unfortunately, they copped out and could not have chosen a more banal and insipid mascot.
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This is why every logo I put up was not Native American in nature. That being said, there were many that had Native American imagery that was incredibly benign (a feather, for example) that I could have added.
Oh I know that. But think about how the story would play out. Marquette changes from Golden Eagles to Warriors. Marquette changed from the Warriors in the early 90s because they used native american imagery. What native american imagery did they use in the past?....oh god....that's not pretty.
Again, I agree the situation was mishandled. We should have just switched to a non-native moniker. But we didn't, and if we ever go back, our dirty laundry from the past will be aired out.
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Oh I know that. But think about how the story would play out. Marquette changes from Golden Eagles to Warriors. Marquette changed from the Warriors in the early 90s because they used native american imagery. What native american imagery did they use in the past?....oh god....that's not pretty.
Again, I agree the situation was mishandled. We should have just switched to a non-native moniker. But we didn't, and if we ever go back, our dirty laundry from the past will be aired out.
I'd get over it, real quick....so would everyone else except for the tiniest of people that would be outraged over everything no matter what.
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I'd get over it, real quick....so would everyone else except for the tiniest of people that would be outraged over everything no matter what.
I agree. I would rather acknowledge the past and try to make actual progress rather than sweeping it under the rug like we did. I'm just trying to figure out the administration's line of thinking
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I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.
Bring Willie back from the same closet.
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I blame Shaka, hey?
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The reason we will never go back to Warriors is because even though many teams use the name with no reference to Native Americans we were by far and away one of the worst offenders using Native American imagery. All you have to do is do a quick image search of Marquette Warriors mascot and you will see how bad it was if you do not remember.
In addition when people print Warrior shirts now they still use the portrait view of the Native American which shows that the Marquette community still associates it with Native American imagery. I understand that it was the last logo used but come on people and get creative. If people started making Marquette Warrior shirts depicting other types of Warriors the University might slowly see that the connection to the Native American imagery we used to use is fading and may someday entertain the idea of going back.
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I blame Crean
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I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.
Now I think that will last for a season at most. Than most people would forget about it. Still, I don't think the administration will ever consider going back.
The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.
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Proposed meme tournament rule: For warriors to qualify for the 2015 meme tourney field, someone must make a post in this thread -regarding warriors, i.e. not a meandering or hijacking post (like for instance this one)- sometime after voting officially closes on the 2014 championship game.
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The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.
Agreed. That headress is passed down from one student to the other every year. I've been saying we need to burn that thing for years. Continues to reinforce the connection between Warriors and Native imagery
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This is why every logo I put up was not Native American in nature. That being said, there were many that had Native American imagery that was incredibly benign (a feather, for example) that I could have added.
;D some were even fake logos created by Hollywood for a movie
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140421180148/thewarriors/images/9/9e/The_warriors_back_logo_2_by_mjhumberto-d4lbpu8.png)
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The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.
The best way to disassociate the name Warriors from Native American imagery is to use the name with a new logo/imagery. But that's not what we did, so everyone wishing we were still the Warriors uses the old logos and Native American stuff. It won't change for at least another generation, if ever.
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The best way to disassociate the name Warriors from Native American imagery is to use the name with a new logo/imagery. But that's not what we did, so everyone wishing we were still the Warriors uses the old logos and Native American stuff. It won't change for at least another generation, if ever.
The only team I've ever seen pull it off is the Golden State Warriors. So, technically, I guess it's possible, but I don't think its likely.
People are nostalgic about stuff.
The Padres old uniforms were ugly as sin, but people still wear them. The Packers retro jersey are terrible, but people still buy them.
Washington Wizards just brought back a retro design that looks like the old Bullets uniforms. The Bobcats just became the Hornets (the team that left town before).
Etc. etc.
EVEN IF MU did a great job with an alternate logo and kept the name, there would still be people out there rockin' the old imagery. It's just the way people are. They become attached/entrenched and they don't want to be told "no"... especially at the college level where nostalgia runs a lot deeper that pro sports.
*And for the record, I think MU botched this whole deal HORRENDOUSLY TWICE.
Should have just gone back to 'Toppers and been down with it. It's the original name. It would have been fine, and easily justifiable.
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Should have just gone back to 'Toppers and been down with it. It's the original name. It would have been fine, and easily justifiable.
Yep. The vote idea was dumb.
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rt
Yep. The vote idea was dumb.
Well, futile. It had all the trappings of a free and fair Banana Republic Junta Fest
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I think the administration is embarrassed of some of the more racist imagery of the past. It's been buried for the most part now. Very few people know about Willie Wampum. If we switch back to the Warriors, all of those skeletons will come pouring out of the closet.
Now I think that will last for a season at most. Than most people would forget about it. Still, I don't think the administration will ever consider going back.
If we kept Willie until about 1987, thrown him out as racist and kept Warriors as our nickname we would have been fine. We dumped Willie in 1971, way before this became fashionable, and received no credit. Based on the rumored payoff coming from the Potawatomi, we have no hope of returning the Warrior.
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rt
Well, futile. It had all the trappings of a free and fair Banana Republic Junta Fest
LOL...exactly
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Kangaroo court, aina?
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The reason we will never go back to Warriors is because even though many teams use the name with no reference to Native Americans we were by far and away one of the worst offenders using Native American imagery. All you have to do is do a quick image search of Marquette Warriors mascot and you will see how bad it was if you do not remember.
In addition when people print Warrior shirts now they still use the portrait view of the Native American which shows that the Marquette community still associates it with Native American imagery. I understand that it was the last logo used but come on people and get creative. If people started making Marquette Warrior shirts depicting other types of Warriors the University might slowly see that the connection to the Native American imagery we used to use is fading and may someday entertain the idea of going back.
Nah.
Bring back Warriors and a new logo, and all those folks wearing Native American Warrior imagery would acquiesce in no time because they got to keep the name. This isn't hard. That's all they had to do from the start. Golden State did it without any problem.
As for your first point about being one of the worst, that is the eye of the beholder. MU dropped the offensive logo decades ago. Or are you implying this logo is offensive? Again, eye of the beholder.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMy6boP3mI3jTPWSYVcENTtD54cuR1tH4zzuUzo6_KbRSogwpsLFQWeA)
Keep the name, change the logo. It was so easy, but MU blew this one too. Not surprisingly.
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If we kept Willie until about 1987, thrown him out as racist and kept Warriors as our nickname we would have been fine. We dumped Willie in 1971, way before this became fashionable, and received no credit. Based on the rumored payoff coming from the Potawatomi, we have no hope of returning the Warrior.
Thank you Sam Sauceda, hey?
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If we kept Willie until about 1987, thrown him out as racist and kept Warriors as our nickname we would have been fine. We dumped Willie in 1971, way before this became fashionable, and received no credit. Based on the rumored payoff coming from the Potawatomi, we have no hope of returning the Warrior.
Ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner.
MU bungled....how many times can we put those words together over the years.
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Ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner.
MU bungled....how many times can we put those words together over the years.
But MU doesn't think it bungled. They think they made the right decision.
In fact MU thinks if anyone "bungled" anything it was the fossils that kept pining for a return to warriors (fossil = graduated before 1993 when MU was still the warriors). Their hissy fit in the wake of dropping warriors resulted in MU not taking a best name other than warriors (which was gold) and instead turning it into generic PC offends no one "Golden Eagles."
So thanks to all that rose a stink about dropping warriors and making it worse.
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;D some were even fake logos created by Hollywood for a movie
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140421180148/thewarriors/images/9/9e/The_warriors_back_logo_2_by_mjhumberto-d4lbpu8.png)
Yup. Some were even of local high school teams. They were able to marry a logo with a name, but apparently MU couldn't figure that out.
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But MU doesn't think it bungled. They think they made the right decision.
In fact MU thinks if anyone "bungled" anything it was the fossils that kept pining for a return to warriors (fossil = graduated before 1993 when MU was still the warriors). Their hissy fit in the wake of dropping warriors resulted in MU not taking a best name other than warriors (which was gold) and instead turning it into generic PC offends no one "Golden Eagles."
So thanks to all that rose a stink about dropping warriors and making it worse.
Heisenberg,
I think the "hissy fit" stemmed from the fact that the original change was sold to the students and alumni over a period of years as a new logo. If I remember correctly, the administration even went so far as to ask students to come up with a new logo (and I believe some were quite good). Then, at the end, the actual announcement came out of nowhere that MU was dropping the "Warrior" name without any warning or input from students and alumni.
Now, I think the continued angst is over how a small slice of the Native American community has somehow managed to associate the term "warrior" with , AND ONLY WITH, Native American imagery.
Sincerely,
Saul
P.S. I would argue that the best alternative name was not "Gold", it was "Jumpin Jesuits". That would have been a bad-ass name and logo.
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The only team I've ever seen pull it off is the Golden State Warriors. So, technically, I guess it's possible, but I don't think its likely.
People are nostalgic about stuff.
The Padres old uniforms were ugly as sin, but people still wear them. The Packers retro jersey are terrible, but people still buy them.
Washington Wizards just brought back a retro design that looks like the old Bullets uniforms. The Bobcats just became the Hornets (the team that left town before).
Etc. etc.
EVEN IF MU did a great job with an alternate logo and kept the name, there would still be people out there rockin' the old imagery. It's just the way people are. They become attached/entrenched and they don't want to be told "no"... especially at the college level where nostalgia runs a lot deeper that pro sports.
*And for the record, I think MU botched this whole deal HORRENDOUSLY TWICE.
Should have just gone back to 'Toppers and been down with it. It's the original name. It would have been fine, and easily justifiable.
You are comparing uniforms to logo \ name changes. It can be done. It has been done many many times over the years. Litehouse is dead on right IMO.
Golden State, which you acknowledged.
Think about all of the logo changes over the years, eventually the old logo dies out UNLESS the teams are trying to sell the retro stuff, throwback and promoting it.
How many folks you see running around with this Red Sox logo? (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/53/53/thumbs/2909.gif)
Angels (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/53/592/thumbs/492.gif) Sometimes I'll see some of the old California Angels logos, mostly because the team brings them back for retro stuff, but MU wouldn't bring back the old Warrior stuff. Just let it die.
Etc, etc. (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/99/3059/thumbs/6398.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/170/thumbs/472.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/99/3063/thumbs/3u242t6gg9tfs8s6rowit5har.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/185/thumbs/328.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/188/thumbs/c5trcmh0fv6fke4fpjfx.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/213/thumbs/5864.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/220/thumbs/5663.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/216/thumbs/6031.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/240/thumbs/zqifh03wxc54qk5ecexgk9ayg.gif)
Are people still wearing a bunch of Washington Bullets stuff at Wizards games? Maybe they are, just asking.
Could have been handled so easily. Sigh.
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But MU doesn't think it bungled. They think they made the right decision.
In fact MU thinks if anyone "bungled" anything it was the fossils that kept pining for a return to warriors (fossil = graduated before 1993 when MU was still the warriors). Their hissy fit in the wake of dropping warriors resulted in MU not taking a best name other than warriors (which was gold) and instead turning it into generic PC offends no one "Golden Eagles."
So thanks to all that rose a stink about dropping warriors and making it worse.
MU has thought a lot of things they have done over the years weren't bungled.
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As for your first point about being one of the worst, that is the eye of the beholder. MU dropped the offensive logo decades ago. Or are you implying this logo is offensive? Again, eye of the beholder.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMy6boP3mI3jTPWSYVcENTtD54cuR1tH4zzuUzo6_KbRSogwpsLFQWeA)
My wife was the most color blind, open minded person I have ever known. She had a couple running t-shirts with the warrior logo you show here. The thought that she would endorse anything hateful or ugly is unimaginable. Willie is a grotesque caricature but the image as rendered above is respectful and honors the heritage of North America.
Imagery of our Japanese enemy in WW 2 was vile and depicted the Japanese as simian, insect-like, or sub human in some form but always with buck teeth and thick glasses.
(http://www.fulltable.com/VTS/p/prp/02.jpg)
Contrast that with images taken from Japan's warrior culture that are employed by the 14th FS at Misawa, Japan. I never met any Japanese who ever took offense as I had that patch on my flight suit while living in Aomori Prefecture. In fact, all of my Japanese neighbors begged me to get them the patch.
(http://www.ericsusafpatches.nl/Fighter/Squadron/14%20FS%20SAMURAI%20JM001.jpg)
(https://www.flightlineinsignia.com/secure/images/products/6714.jpg)
There is nothing wrong with using images that celebrate a culture. To run away from the Warrior as Marquette did was sheer intellectual cowardice.
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Back to the original topic, the hiring of Lovell was the subject of a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education:
http://chronicle.com/article/Inside-a-Presidential-Search/147083/
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Back to the original topic, the hiring of Lovell was the subject of a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education:
http://chronicle.com/article/Inside-a-Presidential-Search/147083/
Someone had posted this before. A huge caveat is that this was authored by the search firm that was retained to find the new President so I would read this carefully.
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A lot of the school district is part of an Indian Reservation with an Indian casino. And before you start blasting me for using Indian, it is what the sign says when you drive there. Their words not mine.
(http://timage1.prepsportswear.com/GetImage.iaspx?type=1&scale=58&schoolid=1001385&p=5034&pc=black&d=44986&up_pp=Enter%20Name%7C34%7C2014&up_ss=m&ver=0&r=0)
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Heisenberg,
I think the "hissy fit" stemmed from the fact that the original change was sold to the students and alumni over a period of years as a new logo. If I remember correctly, the administration even went so far as to ask students to come up with a new logo (and I believe some were quite good). Then, at the end, the actual announcement came out of nowhere that MU was dropping the "Warrior" name without any warning or input from students and alumni.
Now, I think the continued angst is over how a small slice of the Native American community has somehow managed to associate the term "warrior" with , AND ONLY WITH, Native American imagery.
Sincerely,
Saul
P.S. I would argue that the best alternative name was not "Gold", it was "Jumpin Jesuits". That would have been a bad-ass name and logo.
I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....
* MU announced warriors is out and gold is in. The announcement came somewhat out of the blue as their was no big discussion about changing the name beforehand.
* Warriors fans went nuts, demanded they keep warriors.
* two alumni offered the school $1 million each to keep warriors (I forget who but I think one was the CEO of Kimberly Clark)
* MU feeling the push back decided to have a vote of possible names. On the list was Gold and Golden Eagles (among others) but not warriors ... as they made it clear they were not going back warriors.
* the poll also included a write-in possibly. Rumor has it that warriors won in a landslide write-in. I believe the official results of the poll were never released.
* MU announced that "upon further review" they felt Golden Eagles was a better name. Translated, Gold was now poisoned and no rational discussion was possible about that name. They were never going back to warriors under any circumstances. So they took the safe choice in Golden Eagles. Hence my comment that the warrior fans here just managed to make things worse as Gold would have been a better alternative that Golden Eagle.
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If this time line is accurate (which how I remember it) and their are a infinite number of parallel realities in the Universe, none of them have us going back to warriors. So would you please give it up for good!!
You have a much better chance of getting MU to drop Golden Eagle for Gold than for Warriors.
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I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....
Yeah, it's a little mixed up.
It started with Wayne Sanders promising $2 million at commencement if MU changed the name back. Wild declined, but opened up the discussion. They did focus groups, met with tribal leaders, etc. all through the fall. The board was going to meet about it in December, but tabled the vote until the spring. So, it continued.
They meet in the last week of April, and announced Gold was the new nickname. Everybody lost their sh*t. A week later, with their tail between their legs, MU announces they will put up 10 names to a vote. Hilltoppers and GE's won, and eventually GE's was kept.
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I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....
* MU announced warriors is out and gold is in. The announcement came somewhat out of the blue as their was no big discussion about changing the name beforehand.
* Warriors fans went nuts, demanded they keep warriors.
* two alumni offered the school $1 million each to keep warriors (I forget who but I think one was the CEO of Kimberly Clark)
* MU feeling the push back decided to have a vote of possible names. On the list was Gold and Golden Eagles (among others) but not warriors ... as they made it clear they were not going back warriors.
* the poll also included a write-in possibly. Rumor has it that warriors won in a landslide write-in. I believe the official results of the poll were never released.
* MU announced that "upon further review" they felt Golden Eagles was a better name. Translated, Gold was now poisoned and no rational discussion was possible about that name. They were never going back to warriors under any circumstances. So they took the safe choice in Golden Eagles. Hence my comment that the warrior fans here just managed to make things worse as Gold would have been a better alternative that Golden Eagle.
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If this time line is accurate (which how I remember it) and their are a infinite number of parallel realities in the Universe, none of them have us going back to warriors. So would you please give it up for good!!
You have a much better chance of getting MU to drop Golden Eagle for Gold than for Warriors.
Where does the acquisition of the Valley Fields from the Potawatomi fit in?
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I remember the time line differently, please correct my recollection ....
* MU announced warriors is out and gold is in. The announcement came somewhat out of the blue as their was no big discussion about changing the name beforehand.
* Warriors fans went nuts, demanded they keep warriors.
* two alumni offered the school $1 million each to keep warriors (I forget who but I think one was the CEO of Kimberly Clark)
* MU feeling the push back decided to have a vote of possible names. On the list was Gold and Golden Eagles (among others) but not warriors ... as they made it clear they were not going back warriors.
* the poll also included a write-in possibly. Rumor has it that warriors won in a landslide write-in. I believe the official results of the poll were never released.
* MU announced that "upon further review" they felt Golden Eagles was a better name. Translated, Gold was now poisoned and no rational discussion was possible about that name. They were never going back to warriors under any circumstances. So they took the safe choice in Golden Eagles. Hence my comment that the warrior fans here just managed to make things worse as Gold would have been a better alternative that Golden Eagle.
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If this time line is accurate (which how I remember it) and their are a infinite number of parallel realities in the Universe, none of them have us going back to warriors. So would you please give it up for good!!
You have a much better chance of getting MU to drop Golden Eagle for Gold than for Warriors.
The original change was to "Golden Eagles", not the "Gold". The next two points are correct, although the alumni offer was a number of years after the original name change, if I recall correctly. After the offer, MU decided to study the idea and solicited feedback from alumni and students, including sending out surveys about potential names (including "Warriors") and asking about if we would wear Indian-related items to games if "warriors" was brought back. At the end of these studies, MU announced "Gold" as the new name. My opinion remains that the administration chose a name so sh!tty that everyone would be happy to go back to "Golden Eagles". The name even made ESPN where it was mocked with much vigor.... After another uprising over "Gold", MU relented and put it up for a vote of the ten(?) names that were under consideration for the original name change and told everyone that ALL write-in votes for "Warriors" or "Jumpin Jesuits" (a favorite at the time of many people) would not be counted.
True democracy in action...
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Where does the acquisition of the Valley Fields from the Potawatomi fit in?
In the late 1980s it is rumored that the $$$ for the field were put up in exchange for dropping "Warriors".
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Berg
The problem is the original timeline, forget the latest one. In 1994, when the decision was made, they should have said due to 3% or whatever unGodly small number were outraged, we have decided the Warrior logo and any representation with Native Americans will be removed. The name will stay, but we are now going to use a representation tied to a generic warrior. Then we could change the MU seal, as well, so no one would be offended that a white guy was telling the Native American paddler what to do while he is standing in a dominant position or whatever other contrived nonsense of outrage someone comes up with.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a3/Marquette_University_Seal.svg/250px-Marquette_University_Seal.svg.png)
It was blown in 1994, and reblown again the last time around. It was so simple and people both times laid out how easy it would be, but they cowered and bought into this BS nonsense that no one would be able to shed the Native American imagery. Over time, yes they could. For the same reason that over time, eventually Warriors will be forgotten. Goes both ways.
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A lot of the school district is part of an Indian Reservation with an Indian casino. And before you start blasting me for using Indian, it is what the sign says when you drive there. Their words not mine.
I've been to that place. They have no problem being known as an Indian Casino
(http://www.evenyourodds.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/6758279411_824b0af66b_z.jpg)
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Funny nite from the local paper in Oak Park -Gabe Levin's home town. In the nice article talking about Gabe and his decision to come to MU, the reporter referred to MU at one point as the "War Eagles". Would have been a nice compromise, I think. I don't remember that name being suggested. Anyone else?
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Funny nite from the local paper in Oak Park -Gabe Levin's home town. In the nice article talking about Gabe and his decision to come to MU, the reporter referred to MU at one point as the "War Eagles". Would have been a nice compromise, I think. I don't remember that name being suggested. Anyone else?
My belief is the pacifist cohort at MU wanted nothing to do with anything that promoted violence, war or any type of mention of those words that could construe an endorsement of, even tacitly. It was as much an excuse to get rid of Native American imagery as it was to do a complete colon cleanse of items they didn't care for.
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The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.
Said the suburban white guy.
Would it have been better if the individual was black?
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The problem is that when you get suburban white guy in the front row with a "headress" (which I saw last year still), it completely reinforces the administration's decision in their eyes.
Cop out and a reason to latch on to a lame excuse.
I would walk over to that fan, ask him to take off the head dress, give him a Trojan helmet or a Spartan helmet and it would be done. This isn't hard.
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Just hand him a Trojan or a Shiek, hey?
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The original change was to "Golden Eagles", not the "Gold". The next two points are correct, although the alumni offer was a number of years after the original name change, if I recall correctly. After the offer, MU decided to study the idea and solicited feedback from alumni and students, including sending out surveys about potential names (including "Warriors") and asking about if we would wear Indian-related items to games if "warriors" was brought back. At the end of these studies, MU announced "Gold" as the new name. My opinion remains that the administration chose a name so sh!tty that everyone would be happy to go back to "Golden Eagles". The name even made ESPN where it was mocked with much vigor.... After another uprising over "Gold", MU relented and put it up for a vote of the ten(?) names that were under consideration for the original name change and told everyone that ALL write-in votes for "Warriors" or "Jumpin Jesuits" (a favorite at the time of many people) would not be counted.
True democracy in action...
Can you bullet point a timeline with dates so I (we) can get it straight?
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"Golden Eagles" is about as exciting as a turd in a bucket, makes a little noise and stinks!
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"Golden Eagles" is about as exciting as a turd in a bucket, makes a little noise and stinks!
Talkin' 'bout Crean again, hey?
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Said the suburban white guy.
I have never lived in the suburbs. I am white though.
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Cop out and a reason to latch on to a lame excuse.
Yeah I know it is. But if it reinforces it in their mind, it doesn't matter what we think.
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turd in a bucket, makes a little noise and stinks!
Speak for yourself. Some here have droppings remarkably free of odor...
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Cop out and a reason to latch on to a lame excuse.
I would walk over to that fan, ask him to take off the head dress, give him a Trojan helmet or a Spartan helmet and it would be done. This isn't hard.
I agree with this. Central Michigan universe has a rule at all their athletic events. If you wear a headdress, bring a Roman, use war paint, etc., you will be denied admission. If we changed the logo and instituted this policy, we would have been fine
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Supposedly, MU has a "contractual" obligation with a tribe, Potowatomi I believe, that required them to drop and neve bring back the Warrior name in exchange for land and money being donated to MU. If this is true, the name was "sold".
This is the rumor I've heard. Anyone else have any facts Regarding this transaction?
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Said the suburban white guy.
Would it have been better if the individual was black?
I mean it'd probably be best if the individual was native American... or at least hispanic (latino? I don't know what's politically correct anymore).
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Back to Lovell - Saw in Hunt's blog on Ellenson's visit, that Lovell was going to sit down with Henry and talk with him about Marquette and what it has to offer. Pretty awesome to have a University President who has the personality and willingness to meet with recruits/their families.
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Cop out and a reason to latch on to a lame excuse.
I would walk over to that fan, ask him to take off the head dress, give him a Trojan helmet or a Spartan helmet and it would be done. This isn't hard.
What if he is a Native American?
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Back to Lovell - Saw in Hunt's blog on Ellenson's visit, that Lovell was going to sit down with Henry and talk with him about Marquette and what it has to offer. Pretty awesome to have a University President who has the personality and willingness to meet with recruits/their families.
I haven't read the blog yet but what a significant offer from a very busy man. Such a stunning counterpoint to Pilarz who judged books by reading only the cover. Leadership is never about the authority but rather how one uses the authority. Bravo to Lovell for understanding the difference
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what if he was a Native American
I would ask him to take a blood test and if he wasn't 100% Native American, his opinion wouldn't count
-Sincerely, those bitching about the Annenberg Poll results on self identified Native Americans
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I mean it'd probably be best if the individual was native American... or at least hispanic (latino? I don't know what's politically correct anymore).
Latino is the pc term. Hispanic is still widely accepted
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I would ask him to take a blood test and if he wasn't 100% Native American, his opinion wouldn't count
-Sincerely, those bitching about the Annenberg Poll results on self identified Native Americans
Not hitching merely don't agree with your analysis of the results
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Back to Lovell - Saw in Hunt's blog on Ellenson's visit, that Lovell was going to sit down with Henry and talk with him about Marquette and what it has to offer. Pretty awesome to have a University President who has the personality and willingness to meet with recruits/their families.
Wow, for Hunt to report this...is amazing. Barney would never have let him get this close. My friend in the AD used to tell me how paranoid he and his wife were about his public image.
Congrats to Lovell for a great example of servant leadership.
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You are comparing uniforms to logo \ name changes. It can be done. It has been done many many times over the years. Litehouse is dead on right IMO.
Golden State, which you acknowledged.
Think about all of the logo changes over the years, eventually the old logo dies out UNLESS the teams are trying to sell the retro stuff, throwback and promoting it.
How many folks you see running around with this Red Sox logo? (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/53/53/thumbs/2909.gif)
Angels (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/53/592/thumbs/492.gif) Sometimes I'll see some of the old California Angels logos, mostly because the team brings them back for retro stuff, but MU wouldn't bring back the old Warrior stuff. Just let it die.
Etc, etc. (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/99/3059/thumbs/6398.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/170/thumbs/472.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/99/3063/thumbs/3u242t6gg9tfs8s6rowit5har.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/185/thumbs/328.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/188/thumbs/c5trcmh0fv6fke4fpjfx.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/213/thumbs/5864.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/220/thumbs/5663.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/216/thumbs/6031.gif) (http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/240/thumbs/zqifh03wxc54qk5ecexgk9ayg.gif)
Are people still wearing a bunch of Washington Bullets stuff at Wizards games? Maybe they are, just asking.
Could have been handled so easily. Sigh.
I think it's POSSIBLE, that MU could have pulled if off, but like I said before, I don't think it's likely.
Hindsight being what it is, I think it's easy to say: "They should have just changed the logo!"
BUT, if they had just changed the logo, I have a feeling we'd still get a lot of handwringing from alumni. Maybe not as much anger, but I think you'd hear "They kept the name, but they took away the spirit of it!" or something similar.
People (specifically at the COLLEGE level), don't like when you mess with their traditions.
There is a list of teams out there who have successfully moved from one logo to another (as Chico's correctly listed), but I think it's really tough to do it at the college level (I believe all of the logos Chico's listed were professional teams).
Actually, an interesting comp would be St. John's. Does anybody know if they get a lot of blowback from Alumni? Are students wearing head dresses at games?
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Nah.
Bring back Warriors and a new logo, and all those folks wearing Native American Warrior imagery would acquiesce in no time because they got to keep the name. This isn't hard. That's all they had to do from the start. Golden State did it without any problem.
As for your first point about being one of the worst, that is the eye of the beholder. MU dropped the offensive logo decades ago. Or are you implying this logo is offensive? Again, eye of the beholder.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMy6boP3mI3jTPWSYVcENTtD54cuR1tH4zzuUzo6_KbRSogwpsLFQWeA)
Keep the name, change the logo. It was so easy, but MU blew this one too. Not surprisingly.
Chico - I agree with you 1000%. It is common sense that Warrior is NOT offensive to anyone not looking to be offended. Also common sense that the caricature that was Willie Wampum was offensive and needed to go.
Why then isn't it also common sense that Chief Wahoo (certainly no less obviously offensive than Willie) should go? And that a nickname DEFINED as a racial slur goes over the "offensive" line and is in no way in the same category as, say, "Braves" or Warriors. Why do you need a poll to decide for you what your common sense can so obviously tell you? I'm not pulling your chain - I'm just honestly stunned that someone who embraces a common sense solution to the Marquette dilemma is so opposed to one for Washington and Cleveland.
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I think it's POSSIBLE, that MU could have pulled if off, but like I said before, I don't think it's likely.
Hindsight being what it is, I think it's easy to say: "They should have just changed the logo!"
BUT, if they had just changed the logo, I have a feeling we'd still get a lot of handwringing from alumni. Maybe not as much anger, but I think you'd hear "They kept the name, but they took away the spirit of it!" or something similar.
People (specifically at the COLLEGE level), don't like when you mess with their traditions.
There is a list of teams out there who have successfully moved from one logo to another (as Chico's correctly listed), but I think it's really tough to do it at the college level (I believe all of the logos Chico's listed were professional teams).
Actually, an interesting comp would be St. John's. Does anybody know if they get a lot of blowback from Alumni? Are students wearing head dresses at games?
As bad as Golden Eagles is, I think Red Storm is worse. I wouldn't mind us at least dropping the Golden part of the name, or we could become the Golden Corrals in Davante's honor.
That being said, I'll always be a Warrior, imagery be damned.
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Was just reading some old articles on the name issue. I can't believe Wild turned down a 1 million dollar donation to change the name back to the warriors in a non offensive way. I can't imagine a school doing that unless that contract stuff with the potowatami Indians is true
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Believe it was $2M - $1M from Wayne Sanders (Vice Chair of the BOT & graduation speaker) and I believe $1M from one of his close friends also on the BOT who I believe also became a Chair himself a few years later.
My guess is the money or a large majority of it found its way to Marquette regardless of Wild's decision -- so 'turned down' may be a bit strong in hindsight.
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Why is does this thread exist?
Marquette was not looking to finesse the issue it was looking to get rid of the name Warriors altogether. They don't think they made a mistake they think they did it right.
The only mistake they think was the Gold versus Golden Eagles, not getting rid of warriors. So talk about how they should handle this issue is tiresome. They never thought of it in the terms discussed here. The administration and this board are on completely different pages and no amounted advice or Monday morning Quaterbacking is going to change that.
It's time to let it go. And also recognize everyone under the age of 25 thinks you're an old fossil for even discussing this. They are golden eagles and they will always be golden Eagles.
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Why is does this thread exist?
Marquette was not looking to finesse the issue it was looking to get rid of the name Warriors altogether. They don't think they made a mistake they think they did it right.
The only mistake they think was the Gold versus Golden Eagles, not getting rid of warriors. So talk about how they should handle this issue is tiresome. They never thought of it in the terms discussed here. The administration and this board are on completely different pages and no amounted advice or Monday morning Quaterbacking is going to change that.
It's time to let it go. And also recognize everyone under the age of 25 thinks you're an old fossil for even discussing this. They are golden eagles and they will always be golden Eagles.
A few people were looking to get rid of it, the main guy was ridden out of town. Plenty think he and others made a mistake, but like most organizations they aren't going to admit it.
Quite frankly, you have no idea if they will ALWAYS be Golden Eagles. Someone might get another hair brained idea that golden eagles are offended and change it again. After all, MU has had its share of nicknames in the last 100 years. You can keep it all you want, many of us aren't letting it go.
This is my phone case...get asked about it all the time. "Why did your school change the name...so stupid".
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417XhHTE7JL._SX300_.jpg)
I propose a compromise
(http://eckmanfineart.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Standing-Elks-Vision-Oil-copy.jpg)